Discussion:
For the attention of Pip and Adam?
(too old to reply)
Vicky
2017-07-31 08:42:19 UTC
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https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/veterinarians-speak-up-against-systematic-abuse-farm-animals-nalon
We, or I, tend to think the UK and EU are the best, compared to the
rest, on animal welfare. We know Justin is for the cram 'em in, make
more profit, kind of farming and Brian is probably there too. We know
Pat'an'Tony are not. Pip and Adam seem inclined to Bridge Farm
methods, as was Tom.

The US is less careful of animals or of human health as a result of
their methods; think of the hormones in meat and fat-bottomed
Americans and the bleach-washed chickens. I was surprised that the
Netherlands are so bad and presumably the rest of the EU are similar.
I knew about veal being kept indoors to be pale but thought they'd
stopped that. Obviously economies of scale lead to ecomomies of care.
--
Vicky
Kate B
2017-07-31 10:28:59 UTC
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Post by Vicky
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/veterinarians-speak-up-against-systematic-abuse-farm-animals-nalon
We, or I, tend to think the UK and EU are the best, compared to the
rest, on animal welfare. We know Justin is for the cram 'em in, make
more profit, kind of farming and Brian is probably there too. We know
Pat'an'Tony are not. Pip and Adam seem inclined to Bridge Farm
methods, as was Tom.
The US is less careful of animals or of human health as a result of
their methods; think of the hormones in meat and fat-bottomed
Americans and the bleach-washed chickens. I was surprised that the
Netherlands are so bad and presumably the rest of the EU are similar.
I knew about veal being kept indoors to be pale but thought they'd
stopped that. Obviously economies of scale lead to ecomomies of care.
English veal is commonly called 'rose veal' because it isn't the very
pale colour of Dutch veal. If you buy it from a reputable butcher then
you can be reasonably sure it's had a good standard of welfare (in
France we buy veal labelled 'eleve sous la mere' which means it has been
fed on its mother's milk and not some whitening feed. It is also pink
rather than white. It's less expensive because there is more demand -
economies of scale don't necessarily lead to economies of care). We buy
free-range English pork too, which is not so pallid as supermarket pork,
though even that in the UK has a minimum welfare standard.

We eat less meat than we might have done, which is probably good for us,
but we'd never give it up altogether.
--
Kate B
London
Vicky
2017-07-31 10:46:25 UTC
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Post by Kate B
We eat less meat than we might have done, which is probably good for us,
but we'd never give it up altogether.
Same here I suppose. We both seem les keen on lumps of meat, but like
hot dogs and burgers in bins :). And #1 daughter is vegan and so it's
easier to eat veggie when out with her. #2 child likes meat though.

The Lord Peter admiration group on fb is talking about meat at
present. They noticed many scenes where people eat mutton in the books
and most have never eaten it. Some have not had lamb (Americans) and
one said we all ate more sheep as chicken was an expensive treat then.
I remember those days.
--
Vicky
Mike
2017-07-31 10:52:11 UTC
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Post by Vicky
Post by Vicky
but like
hot dogs and burgers in bins :).
A fairly widely held view I believe... ;-)
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Toodle Pip
Chris McMillan
2017-07-31 16:10:35 UTC
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Post by Vicky
Post by Kate B
We eat less meat than we might have done, which is probably good for us,
but we'd never give it up altogether.
Same here I suppose. We both seem les keen on lumps of meat, but like
hot dogs and burgers in bins :). And #1 daughter is vegan and so it's
easier to eat veggie when out with her. #2 child likes meat though.
The Lord Peter admiration group on fb is talking about meat at
present. They noticed many scenes where people eat mutton in the books
and most have never eaten it. Some have not had lamb (Americans) and
one said we all ate more sheep as chicken was an expensive treat then.
I remember those days.
Mutton is difficult to buy, we had to order specially from a butcher
recently.

Sincerely Chris
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2017-07-31 19:25:24 UTC
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Post by Vicky
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/veterinarians-speak-up-against-systematic
-abuse-farm-animals-nalon
We, or I, tend to think the UK and EU are the best, compared to the
rest, on animal welfare. We know Justin is for the cram 'em in, make
Hmm. Not sure about the rest of EU, but I think the French have a very
different view: sheep lorries, not to mention those geese ...
Post by Vicky
more profit, kind of farming and Brian is probably there too. We know
Pat'an'Tony are not. Pip and Adam seem inclined to Bridge Farm
methods, as was Tom.
The US is less careful of animals or of human health as a result of
their methods; think of the hormones in meat and fat-bottomed
Americans and the bleach-washed chickens. I was surprised that the
I'm surprised UMRA didn't discuss this when it was all over the news
briefly. Here's what _I_ understood from the discussion - on either
Toady or PM, I think the latter.

0. The _purpose_ of the washing is to (help) prevent spreading of
nasties when you puncture the chicken - keeping contamination from its
guts etc. from the rest of the meat.

1. The Americans no longer use chlorine for the purpose, but some other
substance (they did say what).

2. The amounts of the substance - even if they _did_ use chlorine - is
not dangerous to (human) health; *even the EU acknowledge that*.

3. The EU's concern about the practice, and the reason it is banned
therein, is their worry that using it might encourage laxity in other
processes.

So you've got - the Americans: our not-chlorine washing is _in addition
to_ the other processes we do (which are all regulated anyway), and is
thus an _added_ safety aspect. The EU: you might cut corners on the
preceding processes.

So it's political/psychological.
Post by Vicky
Netherlands are so bad and presumably the rest of the EU are similar.
(I hadn't heard anything bad about NL [I was going to say "recently",
but not in the past either], but I am often out of touch with current
matters, so if there's been some big scandal recently, I've probably
just missed it.)
[]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Experience is that marvelous thing that enables you to recognize a mistake when
you make it again. -Franklin P. Jones
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