Discussion:
OT: As we didn't like it...
(too old to reply)
BrritSki
2018-07-19 07:17:45 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Very disappointing performance at the Globe last night.

We couldn't hear 2 of the main characters at all clearly, apart from the
third fairly major character (Celia) who signed her part. Now, I have
every sympathy for people who are deaf (see my first phrase in this
paragraph :/) but I don't speak BSL and surely the whole point of
Shakespeare are his words and if half of the early, scene-setting
two-handed dialogues [2] is missing (after the opening Orlando
scene-setting monologue was inaudible), no matter how they tried to make
up for it with rewriting, then I feel short-changed. We had the text
with us, so for a lot of the play we were following it in the book :(

And then they took the gender swapping to extremes. The two Dukes were
played by the Helen Schlesinger (who we couldn't hear),
Rosalind/Ganymede was played by a very tall man and Orlando by a very
short woman who we couldn't hear (our neighbours had been to Hamlet the
night before performed by the same ensemble and she had played Laertes
and seemed to start with a very tired, croaky voice).

I know that originally all the actors were men, but that was a cultural
thing, but this just seemed to be a right-on attempt to be gender
neutral and ablist [1] and was really unnecessary.

Several of the other actors were very good, particularly Pearce Quiqly
as Jaques who was perfectly clear and Colin Hurley as Touchstone (who
swallowed some of his lines but was mainly understandable).

The Globe itself was very well run with lots of cheerful, friendly and
helpful staff, but the benches were so uncomfortable even with cushions.
We knew it would be like that, but the reality after an hour with
nowhere to put your feet was excruciating, esp. for wife who still needs
a crutch to get around although she can now bend her knee almost as normal.

We have been looking forward to this outing for months and to regular
trips to the theatre in London when we get back to the UK full time, but
I don't think the Globe is going to figure very much unless it's an
exceptionally good and traditional show :(

[1] is that a word ?

[2] is a dialogue always two handed ?
LFS
2018-07-19 08:13:02 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 19/07/2018 08:17, BrritSki wrote:
> Very disappointing performance at the Globe last night.
>
> We couldn't hear 2 of the main characters at all clearly, apart from the
> third fairly major character (Celia) who signed her part. Now, I have
> every sympathy for people who are deaf (see my first phrase in this
> paragraph :/) but I don't speak BSL and surely the whole point of
> Shakespeare are his words and if half of the early, scene-setting
> two-handed dialogues [2] is missing (after the opening Orlando
> scene-setting monologue was inaudible), no matter how they tried to make
> up for it with rewriting, then I feel short-changed. We had the text
> with us, so for a lot of the play we were following it in the book :(
>
> And then they took the gender swapping to extremes. The two Dukes were
> played by the Helen Schlesinger (who we couldn't hear),
> Rosalind/Ganymede was played by a very tall man and Orlando by a very
> short woman who we couldn't hear (our neighbours had been to Hamlet the
> night before performed by the same ensemble and she had played Laertes
> and seemed to start with a very tired, croaky voice).
>
> I know that originally all the actors were men, but that was a cultural
> thing, but this just seemed to be a right-on attempt to be gender
> neutral and ablist [1] and was really unnecessary.
>
> Several of the other actors were very good, particularly Pearce Quiqly
> as Jaques who was perfectly clear and Colin Hurley as Touchstone (who
> swallowed some of his lines but was mainly understandable).
>
> The Globe itself was very well run with lots of cheerful, friendly and
> helpful staff, but the benches were so uncomfortable even with cushions.
> We knew it would be like that, but the reality after an hour with
> nowhere to put your feet was excruciating, esp. for wife who still needs
> a crutch to get around although she can now bend her knee almost as normal.
>
> We have been looking forward to this outing for months and to regular
> trips to the theatre in London when we get back to the UK full time, but
> I don't think the Globe is going to figure very much unless it's an
> exceptionally good and traditional show  :(
>
> [1] is that a word ?
>
> [2] is a dialogue always two handed ?

No, just a minimum of two.

Sorry you were disappointed. I have never been to a play at the Globe
because I know that I would be very uncomfortable but I have often felt
that I might be missing something special. Same goes for concerts in the
Sheldonian and opera in Verona.

Even with conventional seating, many London theatres can be a bit
uncomfortable for those of us who are broad across the beam. The
National is the best IMO and the revamped Victoria Palace is very good.



--
Laura (emulate St George for email)
krw
2018-07-19 10:00:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 19/7/18 09:13, LFS wrote; my response is lower down:
> Sorry you were disappointed. I have never been to a play at the Globe
> because I know that I would be very uncomfortable but I have often felt
> that I might be missing something special.

I have been to the Globe and being tall found the seating difficult. I
am finding some of the modern casting difficult. Saw a play at the
National some time ago and there were a brother and sister, with a play
set in Leicestershire 17th century. The brother's countenance matched
the period and ethnicity and the sister was played by Cush Jumbo. A
good actress - but not obviously the sister of the brother and I find it
undermines believability.

On acoustics I cannot recommend the current production of "The King &
I". Kelli O'Hara as Anna is stunning - a huge performance, every word
clear in the gods (where we sits these days due to cost). The King is
Ken Watanabe and his inability to be heard ruins the comedy and his
songs. Most reviewers chose to ignore this problem but to me it ruined
the production because the two lead players are just so unbalanced.
Much was made in the programme how all of the parts being played by
ethnic asian characters - but frankly were they the best people? At
least it avoided the problem mentioned above.

--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
Nick Odell
2018-07-20 21:52:27 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 19/07/18 08:17, BrritSki wrote:
> Very disappointing performance at the Globe last night.
>
> We couldn't hear 2 of the main characters at all clearly, apart from the
> third fairly major character (Celia) who signed her part. Now, I have
> every sympathy for people who are deaf (see my first phrase in this
> paragraph :/) but I don't speak BSL and surely the whole point of
> Shakespeare are his words and if half of the early, scene-setting
> two-handed dialogues [2] is missing (after the opening Orlando
> scene-setting monologue was inaudible), no matter how they tried to make
> up for it with rewriting, then I feel short-changed. We had the text
> with us, so for a lot of the play we were following it in the book :(
>
> And then they took the gender swapping to extremes. The two Dukes were
> played by the Helen Schlesinger (who we couldn't hear),
> Rosalind/Ganymede was played by a very tall man and Orlando by a very
> short woman who we couldn't hear (our neighbours had been to Hamlet the
> night before performed by the same ensemble and she had played Laertes
> and seemed to start with a very tired, croaky voice).
>
> I know that originally all the actors were men, but that was a cultural
> thing, but this just seemed to be a right-on attempt to be gender
> neutral and ablist [1] and was really unnecessary.
>
> Several of the other actors were very good, particularly Pearce Quiqly
> as Jaques who was perfectly clear and Colin Hurley as Touchstone (who
> swallowed some of his lines but was mainly understandable).
>
> The Globe itself was very well run with lots of cheerful, friendly and
> helpful staff, but the benches were so uncomfortable even with cushions.
> We knew it would be like that, but the reality after an hour with
> nowhere to put your feet was excruciating, esp. for wife who still needs
> a crutch to get around although she can now bend her knee almost as normal.
>
> We have been looking forward to this outing for months and to regular
> trips to the theatre in London when we get back to the UK full time, but
> I don't think the Globe is going to figure very much unless it's an
> exceptionally good and traditional show  :(
>
> [1] is that a word ?
>
> [2] is a dialogue always two handed ?
We went last year when the artistic director was Emma Rice and the
casting was gender-blind. I believe that, under Michelle Terry the cast
have chosen their own roles BIMBAM.

I think I mentioned a while back that we had been at the opening of
Shakespeare's Rose Theatre in York. Gender blind casting rather than PYO
part, I believe.

Nick
BrritSki
2018-07-21 08:06:52 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 20/07/2018 23:52, Nick Odell wrote:
> We went last year when the artistic director was Emma Rice and the
> casting was gender-blind. I believe that, under Michelle Terry the cast
> have chosen their own roles BIMBAM.

I wouldn't really mind either of those if the actors could actually
project their voices. It's not hard - I can do it without any training
(except on the parade ground in the ATC). They leave me standing when it
comes to remembering lines however, although following along in the
original text revealed several errors and gaps which I don't think were
deliberate.
Btms
2018-07-21 08:56:59 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
BrritSki <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 20/07/2018 23:52, Nick Odell wrote:
>> We went last year when the artistic director was Emma Rice and the
>> casting was gender-blind. I believe that, under Michelle Terry the cast
>> have chosen their own roles BIMBAM.
>
> I wouldn't really mind either of those if the actors could actually
> project their voices. It's not hard - I can do it without any training
> (except on the parade ground in the ATC). They leave me standing when it
> comes to remembering lines however, although following along in the
> original text revealed several errors and gaps which I don't think were
> deliberate.
>
>
>
>

Fairynuff but bellowing on a parade ground isn’t quite the same as
projecting the voice to include subtle expression and nuances.

--
BTMS - Equine Advisor Extraordinaire.
Nick Odell
2018-07-21 10:43:12 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 21/07/18 09:56, Btms wrote:
> BrritSki <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 20/07/2018 23:52, Nick Odell wrote:
>>> We went last year when the artistic director was Emma Rice and the
>>> casting was gender-blind. I believe that, under Michelle Terry the cast
>>> have chosen their own roles BIMBAM.
>>
>> I wouldn't really mind either of those if the actors could actually
>> project their voices. It's not hard - I can do it without any training
>> (except on the parade ground in the ATC). They leave me standing when it
>> comes to remembering lines however, although following along in the
>> original text revealed several errors and gaps which I don't think were
>> deliberate.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> Fairynuff but bellowing on a parade ground isn’t quite the same as
> projecting the voice to include subtle expression and nuances.
>
Indeed. Walking down Montague Street in Worthing with my mother, the
retired repertory actress, she whispered a rather derogatory comment
about a group of rather unsavoury people nearby. Unfortunately, it was a
classic stage whisper....

"Come along, Mummy. Let's go this way shall we?" (Exit, stage left, etc)

Nick
Btms
2018-07-21 11:02:37 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Nick Odell <***@themusicworkshop.plus.com> wrote:
> On 21/07/18 09:56, Btms wrote:
>> BrritSki <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 20/07/2018 23:52, Nick Odell wrote:
>>>> We went last year when the artistic director was Emma Rice and the
>>>> casting was gender-blind. I believe that, under Michelle Terry the cast
>>>> have chosen their own roles BIMBAM.
>>>
>>> I wouldn't really mind either of those if the actors could actually
>>> project their voices. It's not hard - I can do it without any training
>>> (except on the parade ground in the ATC). They leave me standing when it
>>> comes to remembering lines however, although following along in the
>>> original text revealed several errors and gaps which I don't think were
>>> deliberate.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Fairynuff but bellowing on a parade ground isn’t quite the same as
>> projecting the voice to include subtle expression and nuances.
>>
> Indeed. Walking down Montague Street in Worthing with my mother, the
> retired repertory actress, she whispered a rather derogatory comment
> about a group of rather unsavoury people nearby. Unfortunately, it was a
> classic stage whisper....
>
> "Come along, Mummy. Let's go this way shall we?" (Exit, stage left, etc)
>
> Nick
>

Quite 😏

--
BTMS - Equine Advisor Extraordinaire.
BrritSki
2018-07-21 14:26:37 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 21/07/2018 10:56, Btms wrote:
> BrritSki <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 20/07/2018 23:52, Nick Odell wrote:
>>> We went last year when the artistic director was Emma Rice and the
>>> casting was gender-blind. I believe that, under Michelle Terry the cast
>>> have chosen their own roles BIMBAM.
>>
>> I wouldn't really mind either of those if the actors could actually
>> project their voices. It's not hard - I can do it without any training
>> (except on the parade ground in the ATC). They leave me standing when it
>> comes to remembering lines however, although following along in the
>> original text revealed several errors and gaps which I don't think were
>> deliberate.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> Fairynuff but bellowing on a parade ground isn’t quite the same as
> projecting the voice to include subtle expression and nuances.
>
True, but I think you have little experience of parade ground
"bellowing". You can't keep it up for long (F'r'Us) simply by shouting,
you need to learn how to make your voice loud, which is what old
fashioned actors can do imo.
Btms
2018-07-21 17:04:07 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
BrritSki <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 21/07/2018 10:56, Btms wrote:
>> BrritSki <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 20/07/2018 23:52, Nick Odell wrote:
>>>> We went last year when the artistic director was Emma Rice and the
>>>> casting was gender-blind. I believe that, under Michelle Terry the cast
>>>> have chosen their own roles BIMBAM.
>>>
>>> I wouldn't really mind either of those if the actors could actually
>>> project their voices. It's not hard - I can do it without any training
>>> (except on the parade ground in the ATC). They leave me standing when it
>>> comes to remembering lines however, although following along in the
>>> original text revealed several errors and gaps which I don't think were
>>> deliberate.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Fairynuff but bellowing on a parade ground isn’t quite the same as
>> projecting the voice to include subtle expression and nuances.
>>
> True, but I think you have little experience of parade ground
> "bellowing". You can't keep it up for long (F'r'Us) simply by shouting,
> you need to learn how to make your voice loud, which is what old
> fashioned actors can do imo.
>
>
>

Perhaps not hands on experience but Father (ex Grenadier Guards) was known
to demonstrate. Trooping the Colour was one of his party pieces.

--
BTMS - Equine Advisor Extraordinaire.
steveski
2018-07-22 00:41:48 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sat, 21 Jul 2018 17:04:07 +0000, Btms wrote:

> BrritSki <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 21/07/2018 10:56, Btms wrote:
>>> BrritSki <***@gmail.com> wrote:

[snip] (hope I've got the attributions correct)


>>> Fairynuff but bellowing on a parade ground isn’t quite the same as
>>> projecting the voice to include subtle expression and nuances.
>>>
>> True, but I think you have little experience of parade ground
>> "bellowing". You can't keep it up for long (F'r'Us) simply by shouting,
>> you need to learn how to make your voice loud, which is what old
>> fashioned actors can do imo.

>>
> Perhaps not hands on experience but Father (ex Grenadier Guards) was
> known to demonstrate. Trooping the Colour was one of his party pieces.

My father was an R.S.M and you could hear every word, enunciated
perfectly, over a half-mile parade ground.

Btw, he was 6' 7" and never found a soldier that he couldn't refer to as
"a horrible little man" :-)

--
Steveski [c.f. Cmdr Lambert, when I was in the Navy].
Btms
2018-07-22 06:36:09 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
steveski <***@invalid.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Jul 2018 17:04:07 +0000, Btms wrote:
>
>> BrritSki <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 21/07/2018 10:56, Btms wrote:
>>>> BrritSki <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> [snip] (hope I've got the attributions correct)
>
>
>>>> Fairynuff but bellowing on a parade ground isn’t quite the same as
>>>> projecting the voice to include subtle expression and nuances.
>>>>
>>> True, but I think you have little experience of parade ground
>>> "bellowing". You can't keep it up for long (F'r'Us) simply by shouting,
>>> you need to learn how to make your voice loud, which is what old
>>> fashioned actors can do imo.
>
>>>
>> Perhaps not hands on experience but Father (ex Grenadier Guards) was
>> known to demonstrate. Trooping the Colour was one of his party pieces.
>
> My father was an R.S.M and you could hear every word, enunciated
> perfectly, over a half-mile parade ground.
>
> Btw, he was 6' 7" and never found a soldier that he couldn't refer to as
> "a horrible little man" :-)
>

Indeed. What regiment? Acting requires subtlety and nuances not just
volume plus interaction with others beyond issuing instructions.

--
BTMS - Equine Advisor Extraordinaire.
Kate B
2018-07-25 10:34:23 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 22/07/2018 01:41, steveski wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Jul 2018 17:04:07 +0000, Btms wrote:
>
>> BrritSki <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 21/07/2018 10:56, Btms wrote:
>>>> BrritSki <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> [snip] (hope I've got the attributions correct)
>
>
>>>> Fairynuff but bellowing on a parade ground isn’t quite the same as
>>>> projecting the voice to include subtle expression and nuances.
>>>>
>>> True, but I think you have little experience of parade ground
>>> "bellowing". You can't keep it up for long (F'r'Us) simply by shouting,
>>> you need to learn how to make your voice loud, which is what old
>>> fashioned actors can do imo.
>
>>>
>> Perhaps not hands on experience but Father (ex Grenadier Guards) was
>> known to demonstrate. Trooping the Colour was one of his party pieces.
>
> My father was an R.S.M and you could hear every word, enunciated
> perfectly, over a half-mile parade ground.
>
> Btw, he was 6' 7" and never found a soldier that he couldn't refer to as
> "a horrible little man" :-)
>

Alas, scandalously, very little emphasis is placed on projection these
days in drama schools. It's all about 'truth' and 'authenticity' and
acting for the camera. I help to run a series of workshops named for
William Poel (a great advocate for speaking Shakespeare well on stage -
in his day it was countering the bellowers and hams). We audition dozens
of young actors desperate for a chance to work on their voices (we take
12 in the end), who then work with the voice coaches of the NT and RSC
and other people like Ian McKellen and the splendid Barrie Rutter to
give them some solid practical technique in projection and breath
control. They come out of drama school with almost nothing they can use.
The workshops are ephemeral, of course, but we hope it gives them some
tools to be effective when they finally get onto a real stage.

PS We used to do it at the Globe till they decided they didn't need us.

PPs We had the dear departed Nic on one of the workshops a few years
ago. She was lovely.


--
Kate B
London
BrritSki
2018-07-25 12:29:10 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 25/07/2018 12:34, Kate B wrote:
...
> technique in projection and breath control. They come out of drama
> school with almost nothing they can use. The workshops are ephemeral, of
> course, but we hope it gives them some tools to be effective when they
> finally get onto a real stage.
>
> PS We used to do it at the Globe till they decided they didn't need us.

Perhaps you should contact them again following my complaint :)

Not that they've deigned to reply of course :(
Btms
2018-07-25 19:38:11 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Kate B <***@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 22/07/2018 01:41, steveski wrote:
>> On Sat, 21 Jul 2018 17:04:07 +0000, Btms wrote:
>>
>>> BrritSki <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 21/07/2018 10:56, Btms wrote:
>>>>> BrritSki <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> [snip] (hope I've got the attributions correct)
>>
>>
>>>>> Fairynuff but bellowing on a parade ground isn’t quite the same as
>>>>> projecting the voice to include subtle expression and nuances.
>>>>>
>>>> True, but I think you have little experience of parade ground
>>>> "bellowing". You can't keep it up for long (F'r'Us) simply by shouting,
>>>> you need to learn how to make your voice loud, which is what old
>>>> fashioned actors can do imo.
>>
>>>>
>>> Perhaps not hands on experience but Father (ex Grenadier Guards) was
>>> known to demonstrate. Trooping the Colour was one of his party pieces.
>>
>> My father was an R.S.M and you could hear every word, enunciated
>> perfectly, over a half-mile parade ground.
>>
>> Btw, he was 6' 7" and never found a soldier that he couldn't refer to as
>> "a horrible little man" :-)
>>
>
> Alas, scandalously, very little emphasis is placed on projection these
> days in drama schools. It's all about 'truth' and 'authenticity' and
> acting for the camera. I help to run a series of workshops named for
> William Poel (a great advocate for speaking Shakespeare well on stage -
> in his day it was countering the bellowers and hams). We audition dozens
> of young actors desperate for a chance to work on their voices (we take
> 12 in the end), who then work with the voice coaches of the NT and RSC
> and other people like Ian McKellen and the splendid Barrie Rutter to
> give them some solid practical technique in projection and breath
> control. They come out of drama school with almost nothing they can use.
> The workshops are ephemeral, of course, but we hope it gives them some
> tools to be effective when they finally get onto a real stage.
>
> PS We used to do it at the Globe till they decided they didn't need us.
>
> PPs We had the dear departed Nic on one of the workshops a few years
> ago. She was lovely.
>
>

They all appear to wear head mics these days..

--
BTMS - Equine Advisor Extraordinaire.
Mike
2018-07-26 10:48:08 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Btms <***@thetames.me.uk> wrote:
> Kate B <***@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 22/07/2018 01:41, steveski wrote:
>>> On Sat, 21 Jul 2018 17:04:07 +0000, Btms wrote:
>>>
>>>> BrritSki <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 21/07/2018 10:56, Btms wrote:
>>>>>> BrritSki <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> [snip] (hope I've got the attributions correct)
>>>
>>>
>>>>>> Fairynuff but bellowing on a parade ground isn’t quite the same as
>>>>>> projecting the voice to include subtle expression and nuances.
>>>>>>
>>>>> True, but I think you have little experience of parade ground
>>>>> "bellowing". You can't keep it up for long (F'r'Us) simply by shouting,
>>>>> you need to learn how to make your voice loud, which is what old
>>>>> fashioned actors can do imo.
>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Perhaps not hands on experience but Father (ex Grenadier Guards) was
>>>> known to demonstrate. Trooping the Colour was one of his party pieces.
>>>
>>> My father was an R.S.M and you could hear every word, enunciated
>>> perfectly, over a half-mile parade ground.
>>>
>>> Btw, he was 6' 7" and never found a soldier that he couldn't refer to as
>>> "a horrible little man" :-)
>>>
>>
>> Alas, scandalously, very little emphasis is placed on projection these
>> days in drama schools. It's all about 'truth' and 'authenticity' and
>> acting for the camera. I help to run a series of workshops named for
>> William Poel (a great advocate for speaking Shakespeare well on stage -
>> in his day it was countering the bellowers and hams). We audition dozens
>> of young actors desperate for a chance to work on their voices (we take
>> 12 in the end), who then work with the voice coaches of the NT and RSC
>> and other people like Ian McKellen and the splendid Barrie Rutter to
>> give them some solid practical technique in projection and breath
>> control. They come out of drama school with almost nothing they can use.
>> The workshops are ephemeral, of course, but we hope it gives them some
>> tools to be effective when they finally get onto a real stage.
>>
>> PS We used to do it at the Globe till they decided they didn't need us.
>>
>> PPs We had the dear departed Nic on one of the workshops a few years
>> ago. She was lovely.
>>
>>
>
> They all appear to wear head mics these days..
>

In my earlier days, I distrusted radio mics as they were inferior in sound
quality, reliability, solid transmission and reception, ability to crackle
for no apparent reason, run through cells/batteries as if they had shares
in their manufacturers and were unpopular with wearers due to bulk and
weight. The good uns were priced in megapounds and the restricted bands
available meant they were only ever used for principal parts.
Things have improved on all these fronts and with pricing having dropped to
more affordable levels and mics that can be chosen for their colour and
ability to be hidden in the hair line...no one needs to project these
days;-) (sigh).

--
Toodle Pip
Kate B
2018-07-26 13:55:20 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 26/07/2018 11:48, Mike wrote:
> Btms <***@thetames.me.uk> wrote:
>> Kate B <***@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 22/07/2018 01:41, steveski wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 21 Jul 2018 17:04:07 +0000, Btms wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> BrritSki <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 21/07/2018 10:56, Btms wrote:
>>>>>>> BrritSki <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> [snip] (hope I've got the attributions correct)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> Fairynuff but bellowing on a parade ground isn’t quite the same as
>>>>>>> projecting the voice to include subtle expression and nuances.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> True, but I think you have little experience of parade ground
>>>>>> "bellowing". You can't keep it up for long (F'r'Us) simply by shouting,
>>>>>> you need to learn how to make your voice loud, which is what old
>>>>>> fashioned actors can do imo.
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Perhaps not hands on experience but Father (ex Grenadier Guards) was
>>>>> known to demonstrate. Trooping the Colour was one of his party pieces.
>>>>
>>>> My father was an R.S.M and you could hear every word, enunciated
>>>> perfectly, over a half-mile parade ground.
>>>>
>>>> Btw, he was 6' 7" and never found a soldier that he couldn't refer to as
>>>> "a horrible little man" :-)
>>>>
>>>
>>> Alas, scandalously, very little emphasis is placed on projection these
>>> days in drama schools. It's all about 'truth' and 'authenticity' and
>>> acting for the camera. I help to run a series of workshops named for
>>> William Poel (a great advocate for speaking Shakespeare well on stage -
>>> in his day it was countering the bellowers and hams). We audition dozens
>>> of young actors desperate for a chance to work on their voices (we take
>>> 12 in the end), who then work with the voice coaches of the NT and RSC
>>> and other people like Ian McKellen and the splendid Barrie Rutter to
>>> give them some solid practical technique in projection and breath
>>> control. They come out of drama school with almost nothing they can use.
>>> The workshops are ephemeral, of course, but we hope it gives them some
>>> tools to be effective when they finally get onto a real stage.
>>>
>>> PS We used to do it at the Globe till they decided they didn't need us.
>>>
>>> PPs We had the dear departed Nic on one of the workshops a few years
>>> ago. She was lovely.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> They all appear to wear head mics these days..
>>
>
> In my earlier days, I distrusted radio mics as they were inferior in sound
> quality, reliability, solid transmission and reception, ability to crackle
> for no apparent reason, run through cells/batteries as if they had shares
> in their manufacturers and were unpopular with wearers due to bulk and
> weight. The good uns were priced in megapounds and the restricted bands
> available meant they were only ever used for principal parts.
> Things have improved on all these fronts and with pricing having dropped to
> more affordable levels and mics that can be chosen for their colour and
> ability to be hidden in the hair line...no one needs to project these
> days;-) (sigh).

>
The trouble is, it's really a fallacy that you don't need to project if
you're miked up. If you're using specific singing techniques with a mike
you can get away with soft crooning or using a very breathy voice, but
speaking or singing onstage still needs proper breath management to
articulate consonants and support the sheer sound.

I think it's actually a tragedy that stage shows are routinely miked and
sound-engineered these days. You never really hear a real raw voice,
except in the opera.


--
Kate B
London
the Omrud
2018-07-26 14:44:10 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 26/07/2018 14:55, Kate B wrote:
> On 26/07/2018 11:48, Mike wrote:
>> Btms <***@thetames.me.uk> wrote:
>>> Kate B <***@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> PPs We had the dear departed Nic on one of the workshops a few years
>>>> ago. She was lovely.
>>>
>>> They all appear to wear head mics these days..
>>
>> In my earlier days, I distrusted radio mics as they were inferior in
>> sound quality, reliability, solid transmission and reception, ability to
>> crackle for no apparent reason, run through cells/batteries as if they had shares
>> in their manufacturers and were unpopular with wearers due to bulk and
>> weight. The good uns were priced in megapounds and the restricted bands
>> available meant they were only ever used for principal parts.
>> Things have improved on all these fronts and with pricing having
>> dropped to more affordable levels and mics that can be chosen for their colour and
>> ability to be hidden in the hair line...no one needs to project these
>> days;-) (sigh).
>
> The trouble is, it's really a fallacy that you don't need to project if
> you're miked up. If you're using specific singing techniques with a mike
> you can get away with soft crooning or using a very breathy voice, but
> speaking or singing onstage still needs proper breath management to
> articulate consonants and support the sheer sound.
>
> I think it's actually a tragedy that stage shows are routinely miked and
> sound-engineered these days. You never really hear a real raw voice,
> except in the opera.

The Royal Exchange Theatre in Manchester has never used radio mics for
plays, although they do for their annual musicals.

We went to see the "rarely performed" musical, "Paint Your Wagon" at the
Everyman last month. I now know why it's rarely performed - it's a
minor work of little importance, but the casting suited the repertory
group at the theatre and they gave it a good try. They all used radio
mics which were very clear but which were unfortunately routed to a
block of speakers suspended above the centre of the stage (in the
round). Which meant it was impossible to locate which character was
speaking if there were more than a few on stage.

--
David
LFS
2018-07-27 08:06:18 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 26/07/2018 14:55, Kate B wrote:
> On 26/07/2018 11:48, Mike wrote:
>> Btms <***@thetames.me.uk> wrote:
>>> Kate B <***@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 22/07/2018 01:41, steveski wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 21 Jul 2018 17:04:07 +0000, Btms wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> BrritSki <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 21/07/2018 10:56, Btms wrote:
>>>>>>>> BrritSki <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> [snip] (hope I've got the attributions correct)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Fairynuff but bellowing on a parade ground isn’t quite the same as
>>>>>>>> projecting the voice to include subtle expression and nuances.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> True, but I think you have little experience of parade ground
>>>>>>> "bellowing". You can't keep it up for long (F'r'Us) simply by
>>>>>>> shouting,
>>>>>>> you need to learn how to make your voice loud, which is what old
>>>>>>> fashioned actors can do imo.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Perhaps not hands on experience but Father (ex Grenadier Guards) was
>>>>>> known to demonstrate. Trooping the Colour was one of his party
>>>>>> pieces.
>>>>>
>>>>> My father was an R.S.M and you could hear every word, enunciated
>>>>> perfectly, over a half-mile parade ground.
>>>>>
>>>>> Btw, he was 6' 7" and never found a soldier that he couldn't refer
>>>>> to as
>>>>> "a horrible little man" :-)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Alas, scandalously, very little emphasis is placed on projection these
>>>> days in drama schools. It's all about 'truth' and 'authenticity' and
>>>> acting for the camera. I help to run a series of workshops named for
>>>> William Poel (a great advocate for speaking Shakespeare well on stage -
>>>> in his day it was countering the bellowers and hams). We audition
>>>> dozens
>>>> of young actors desperate for a chance to work on their voices (we take
>>>> 12 in the end), who then work with the voice coaches of the NT and RSC
>>>> and other people like Ian McKellen and the splendid Barrie Rutter to
>>>> give them some solid practical technique in projection and breath
>>>> control. They come out of drama school with almost nothing they can
>>>> use.
>>>> The workshops are ephemeral, of course, but we hope it gives them some
>>>> tools to be effective when they finally get onto a real stage.
>>>>
>>>> PS We used to do it at the Globe till they decided they didn't need us.
>>>>
>>>> PPs We had the dear departed Nic on one of the workshops a few years
>>>> ago. She was lovely.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> They all appear to wear head mics these days..
>>>
>>
>> In my earlier days, I distrusted radio mics as they were inferior in
>> sound
>> quality, reliability, solid transmission and reception, ability to
>> crackle
>> for no apparent reason, run through cells/batteries as if they had shares
>> in their manufacturers and were unpopular with wearers due to bulk and
>> weight. The good uns were priced in megapounds and the restricted bands
>> available meant they were only ever used for principal parts.
>> Things have improved on all these fronts and with pricing having
>> dropped to
>> more affordable levels and mics that can be chosen for their colour and
>> ability to be hidden in the hair line...no one needs to project these
>> days;-) (sigh).
>
>>
> The trouble is, it's really a fallacy that you don't need to project if
> you're miked up. If you're using specific singing techniques with a mike
> you can get away with soft crooning or using a very breathy voice, but
> speaking or singing onstage still needs proper breath management to
> articulate consonants and support the sheer sound.
>
> I think it's actually a tragedy that stage shows are routinely miked and
> sound-engineered these days. You never really hear a real raw voice,
> except in the opera.
>
>

I was hugely impressed by "Hamilton". The performers were miked but they
also enunciated beautifully which, given the complexity of the words,
was really necessary. I think the refurbishment of the Victoria Palace
has included careful attention to acoustics, as well.

In the plays we've seen recently I've found that the male actors project
well but the female ones quite often speak at a pitch that I find
difficult to hear even with my hearing aids. The notable exception was
Anne Marie Duff who we've seen twice and was clear as a bell.

--
Laura (emulate St George for email)
krw
2018-08-05 16:26:57 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 27/7/18 09:06, LFS wrote; my response is lower down:
> The notable exception was Anne Marie Duff who we've seen twice and was
> clear as a bell.

I always try to see productions in which she is involved simply because
I know the clarity will be there.

We first saw her probably about 20 years ago in a two hander with Helen
Mirren (which was the reason we booked). We both came away saying that
the young girl had blown Ms Mirren away with her performance. In
retrospect the difference was probably not that great - just that there
was anyone able to take on Ms Mirren single handed and stay level was
almost amazing. That came before she was famous on TV - but whoever did
the casting got it so right!

--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
Vicky Ayech
2018-07-26 11:12:10 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Wed, 25 Jul 2018 11:34:23 +0100, Kate B <***@nospam.demon.co.uk>
wrote:

>On 22/07/2018 01:41, steveski wrote:
>> On Sat, 21 Jul 2018 17:04:07 +0000, Btms wrote:
>>
>>> BrritSki <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 21/07/2018 10:56, Btms wrote:
>>>>> BrritSki <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> [snip] (hope I've got the attributions correct)
>>
>>
>>>>> Fairynuff but bellowing on a parade ground isn’t quite the same as
>>>>> projecting the voice to include subtle expression and nuances.
>>>>>
>>>> True, but I think you have little experience of parade ground
>>>> "bellowing". You can't keep it up for long (F'r'Us) simply by shouting,
>>>> you need to learn how to make your voice loud, which is what old
>>>> fashioned actors can do imo.
>>
>>>>
>>> Perhaps not hands on experience but Father (ex Grenadier Guards) was
>>> known to demonstrate. Trooping the Colour was one of his party pieces.
>>
>> My father was an R.S.M and you could hear every word, enunciated
>> perfectly, over a half-mile parade ground.
>>
>> Btw, he was 6' 7" and never found a soldier that he couldn't refer to as
>> "a horrible little man" :-)
>>
>
>Alas, scandalously, very little emphasis is placed on projection these
>days in drama schools. It's all about 'truth' and 'authenticity' and
>acting for the camera. I help to run a series of workshops named for
>William Poel (a great advocate for speaking Shakespeare well on stage -
>in his day it was countering the bellowers and hams). We audition dozens
>of young actors desperate for a chance to work on their voices (we take
>12 in the end), who then work with the voice coaches of the NT and RSC
>and other people like Ian McKellen and the splendid Barrie Rutter to
>give them some solid practical technique in projection and breath
>control. They come out of drama school with almost nothing they can use.
>The workshops are ephemeral, of course, but we hope it gives them some
>tools to be effective when they finally get onto a real stage.
>
>PS We used to do it at the Globe till they decided they didn't need us.
>
>PPs We had the dear departed Nic on one of the workshops a few years
>ago. She was lovely.

I belonged to a children's drama group and the lady who ran it also
gave some of us, possibly most, paid for drama lessons. We did LAMBDA
exams if we wanted to. I once did a duologue and once recited a poem
and piece of text I think. I must have a certificate somewhere,

She spent time teaching us how to project our voices. We did breathing
exercises to train our diaphrams. (the ones above our tummies, in case
you think FRU) It's been useful since when I've had to speak to a
class or group or on occasion a conference.
Chris McMillan
2018-07-26 11:54:23 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Kate B <***@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 22/07/2018 01:41, steveski wrote:
>> On Sat, 21 Jul 2018 17:04:07 +0000, Btms wrote:
>>
>>> BrritSki <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 21/07/2018 10:56, Btms wrote:
>>>>> BrritSki <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> [snip] (hope I've got the attributions correct)
>>
>>
>>>>> Fairynuff but bellowing on a parade ground isn’t quite the same as
>>>>> projecting the voice to include subtle expression and nuances.
>>>>>
>>>> True, but I think you have little experience of parade ground
>>>> "bellowing". You can't keep it up for long (F'r'Us) simply by shouting,
>>>> you need to learn how to make your voice loud, which is what old
>>>> fashioned actors can do imo.
>>
>>>>
>>> Perhaps not hands on experience but Father (ex Grenadier Guards) was
>>> known to demonstrate. Trooping the Colour was one of his party pieces.
>>
>> My father was an R.S.M and you could hear every word, enunciated
>> perfectly, over a half-mile parade ground.
>>
>> Btw, he was 6' 7" and never found a soldier that he couldn't refer to as
>> "a horrible little man" :-)
>>
>
> Alas, scandalously, very little emphasis is placed on projection these
> days in drama schools. It's all about 'truth' and 'authenticity' and
> acting for the camera. I help to run a series of workshops named for
> William Poel (a great advocate for speaking Shakespeare well on stage -
> in his day it was countering the bellowers and hams). We audition dozens
> of young actors desperate for a chance to work on their voices (we take
> 12 in the end), who then work with the voice coaches of the NT and RSC
> and other people like Ian McKellen and the splendid Barrie Rutter to
> give them some solid practical technique in projection and breath
> control. They come out of drama school with almost nothing they can use.
> The workshops are ephemeral, of course, but we hope it gives them some
> tools to be effective when they finally get onto a real stage.
>
> PS We used to do it at the Globe till they decided they didn't need us.
>
> PPs We had the dear departed Nic on one of the workshops a few years
> ago. She was lovely.
>
>

A Nic-er flash? A very good one, Kate!

Sincerely Chris
BrritSki
2018-08-02 10:51:54 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 19/07/2018 09:17, BrritSki wrote:
> Very disappointing performance at the Globe last night.
>
> We couldn't hear 2 of the main characters at all clearly, apart from the
> third fairly major character (Celia) who signed her part. Now, I have
> every sympathy for people who are deaf (see my first phrase in this
> paragraph :/) but I don't speak BSL and surely the whole point of
> Shakespeare are his words and if half of the early, scene-setting
> two-handed dialogues [2] is missing (after the opening Orlando
> scene-setting monologue was inaudible), no matter how they tried to make
> up for it with rewriting, then I feel short-changed. We had the text
> with us, so for a lot of the play we were following it in the book :(
>
> And then they took the gender swapping to extremes. The two Dukes were
> played by the Helen Schlesinger (who we couldn't hear),
> Rosalind/Ganymede was played by a very tall man and Orlando by a very
> short woman who we couldn't hear (our neighbours had been to Hamlet the
> night before performed by the same ensemble and she had played Laertes
> and seemed to start with a very tired, croaky voice).
>
> I know that originally all the actors were men, but that was a cultural
> thing, but this just seemed to be a right-on attempt to be gender
> neutral and ablist [1] and was really unnecessary.
>
> Several of the other actors were very good, particularly Pearce Quiqly
> as Jaques who was perfectly clear and Colin Hurley as Touchstone (who
> swallowed some of his lines but was mainly understandable).
>
> The Globe itself was very well run with lots of cheerful, friendly and
> helpful staff, but the benches were so uncomfortable even with cushions.
> We knew it would be like that, but the reality after an hour with
> nowhere to put your feet was excruciating, esp. for wife who still needs
> a crutch to get around although she can now bend her knee almost as normal.
>
> We have been looking forward to this outing for months and to regular
> trips to the theatre in London when we get back to the UK full time, but
> I don't think the Globe is going to figure very much unless it's an
> exceptionally good and traditional show  :(
>
> [1] is that a word ?
>
> [2] is a dialogue always two handed ?

I have now received a reply from SGT:

Dear Roger,
Thank you for your email.
I can confirm we have received your comments regarding As You Like It.
Thank you for your feedback. We believe this production fully embraces
our cause which is:

We celebrate Shakespeare’s transformative impact on the world by
conducting a radical theatrical experiment.
Inspired and informed by the unique historic playing conditions of two
beautiful iconic theatres, our diverse programme of work harnesses the
power of performance, cultivates intellectual curiosity and excites
learning to make Shakespeare accessible for all.
‘And let us ... on your imaginary forces work.’ Henry V, Prologue

We hope to welcome you again soon.
Best wishes,

What a load of twaddle. I have sent a suitably sarcastic reply.
Nick Odell
2018-08-02 22:43:01 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 02/08/18 11:51, BrritSki wrote:
> On 19/07/2018 09:17, BrritSki wrote:
>> Very disappointing performance at the Globe last night.
>>
>> We couldn't hear 2 of the main characters at all clearly, apart from
>> the third fairly major character (Celia) who signed her part. Now, I
>> have every sympathy for people who are deaf (see my first phrase in
>> this paragraph :/) but I don't speak BSL and surely the whole point of
>> Shakespeare are his words and if half of the early, scene-setting
>> two-handed dialogues [2] is missing (after the opening Orlando
>> scene-setting monologue was inaudible), no matter how they tried to
>> make up for it with rewriting, then I feel short-changed. We had the
>> text with us, so for a lot of the play we were following it in the
>> book :(
>>
>> And then they took the gender swapping to extremes. The two Dukes were
>> played by the Helen Schlesinger (who we couldn't hear),
>> Rosalind/Ganymede was played by a very tall man and Orlando by a very
>> short woman who we couldn't hear (our neighbours had been to Hamlet
>> the night before performed by the same ensemble and she had played
>> Laertes and seemed to start with a very tired, croaky voice).
>>
>> I know that originally all the actors were men, but that was a
>> cultural thing, but this just seemed to be a right-on attempt to be
>> gender neutral and ablist [1] and was really unnecessary.
>>
>> Several of the other actors were very good, particularly Pearce Quiqly
>> as Jaques who was perfectly clear and Colin Hurley as Touchstone (who
>> swallowed some of his lines but was mainly understandable).
>>
>> The Globe itself was very well run with lots of cheerful, friendly and
>> helpful staff, but the benches were so uncomfortable even with
>> cushions. We knew it would be like that, but the reality after an hour
>> with nowhere to put your feet was excruciating, esp. for wife who
>> still needs a crutch to get around although she can now bend her knee
>> almost as normal.
>>
>> We have been looking forward to this outing for months and to regular
>> trips to the theatre in London when we get back to the UK full time,
>> but I don't think the Globe is going to figure very much unless it's
>> an exceptionally good and traditional show  :(
>>
>> [1] is that a word ?
>>
>> [2] is a dialogue always two handed ?
>
> I have now received a reply from SGT:
>
> Dear Roger,
> Thank you for your email.
> I can confirm we have received your comments regarding As You Like It.
> Thank you for your feedback. We believe this production fully embraces
> our cause which is:
>
> We celebrate Shakespeare’s transformative impact on the world by
> conducting a radical theatrical experiment.
> Inspired and informed by the unique historic playing conditions of two
> beautiful iconic theatres, our diverse programme of work harnesses the
> power of performance, cultivates intellectual curiosity and excites
> learning to make Shakespeare accessible for all.
> ‘And let us ... on your imaginary forces work.’ Henry V, Prologue
>
> We hope to welcome you again soon.
> Best wishes,
>
> What a load of twaddle. I have sent a suitably sarcastic reply.

Did you give them your full name? That looks like a typical BBC
non-reply to Feedback and I wonder if they thought you were Roger Bolton
and that they could fob you off in similar fashion?

Nick
Mike
2018-08-03 07:59:01 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Nick Odell <***@themusicworkshop.plus.com> wrote:
> On 02/08/18 11:51, BrritSki wrote:
>> On 19/07/2018 09:17, BrritSki wrote:
>>> Very disappointing performance at the Globe last night.
>>>
>>> We couldn't hear 2 of the main characters at all clearly, apart from
>>> the third fairly major character (Celia) who signed her part. Now, I
>>> have every sympathy for people who are deaf (see my first phrase in
>>> this paragraph :/) but I don't speak BSL and surely the whole point of
>>> Shakespeare are his words and if half of the early, scene-setting
>>> two-handed dialogues [2] is missing (after the opening Orlando
>>> scene-setting monologue was inaudible), no matter how they tried to
>>> make up for it with rewriting, then I feel short-changed. We had the
>>> text with us, so for a lot of the play we were following it in the
>>> book :(
>>>
>>> And then they took the gender swapping to extremes. The two Dukes were
>>> played by the Helen Schlesinger (who we couldn't hear),
>>> Rosalind/Ganymede was played by a very tall man and Orlando by a very
>>> short woman who we couldn't hear (our neighbours had been to Hamlet
>>> the night before performed by the same ensemble and she had played
>>> Laertes and seemed to start with a very tired, croaky voice).
>>>
>>> I know that originally all the actors were men, but that was a
>>> cultural thing, but this just seemed to be a right-on attempt to be
>>> gender neutral and ablist [1] and was really unnecessary.
>>>
>>> Several of the other actors were very good, particularly Pearce Quiqly
>>> as Jaques who was perfectly clear and Colin Hurley as Touchstone (who
>>> swallowed some of his lines but was mainly understandable).
>>>
>>> The Globe itself was very well run with lots of cheerful, friendly and
>>> helpful staff, but the benches were so uncomfortable even with
>>> cushions. We knew it would be like that, but the reality after an hour
>>> with nowhere to put your feet was excruciating, esp. for wife who
>>> still needs a crutch to get around although she can now bend her knee
>>> almost as normal.
>>>
>>> We have been looking forward to this outing for months and to regular
>>> trips to the theatre in London when we get back to the UK full time,
>>> but I don't think the Globe is going to figure very much unless it's
>>> an exceptionally good and traditional show  :(
>>>
>>> [1] is that a word ?
>>>
>>> [2] is a dialogue always two handed ?
>>
>> I have now received a reply from SGT:
>>
>> Dear Roger,
>> Thank you for your email.
>> I can confirm we have received your comments regarding As You Like It.
>> Thank you for your feedback. We believe this production fully embraces
>> our cause which is:
>>
>> We celebrate Shakespeare’s transformative impact on the world by
>> conducting a radical theatrical experiment.
>> Inspired and informed by the unique historic playing conditions of two
>> beautiful iconic theatres, our diverse programme of work harnesses the
>> power of performance, cultivates intellectual curiosity and excites
>> learning to make Shakespeare accessible for all.
>> ‘And let us ... on your imaginary forces work.’ Henry V, Prologue
>>
>> We hope to welcome you again soon.
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> What a load of twaddle. I have sent a suitably sarcastic reply.
>
> Did you give them your full name? That looks like a typical BBC
> non-reply to Feedback and I wonder if they thought you were Roger Bolton
> and that they could fob you off in similar fashion?
>
> Nick
>

You may say that, and of course you have every right to do so; we endeavour
to provide the best possible service, of which, we are rightly proud. Thank
you for contacting us, you have every right to expect the highest
standards, we are rightly proud, for that is what we here do for you - it
is through feedback such as yours that we know and are justly confident and
proud that ....

--
Toodle Pip
Loading...