Discussion:
OT: Exhibition Road
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Nick Odell
2017-10-08 18:58:19 UTC
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I can't be the only umrat to have walked up from South Ken to the Royal
Albert Hall this summer but I might have been the only umrat who found
the shared spaces to be a new experience. Looking at where the accident
occurred, it appears to be where Cromwell Road, as a full-blown road,
cuts across Exhibition Road where it is a shared space. I nearly lost
Liliana under a bus at the junction just south of there: one green man -
the one we saw - said cross, but the red man adjacent to him said don't.

So I'm wondering - not about the way London was very quick to presume
terrorism was involved in the mass accident until it was shown that it
wasn't - but how many other, similar accidents have already occurred
there before but, because on those occasions fewer people were harmed,
they didn't get the media all excited?

Nick
krw
2017-10-09 08:55:00 UTC
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Post by Nick Odell
I can't be the only umrat to have walked up from South Ken to the Royal
Albert Hall this summer but I might have been the only umrat who found
the shared spaces to be a new experience. Looking at where the accident
occurred, it appears to be where Cromwell Road, as a full-blown road,
cuts across Exhibition Road where it is a shared space. I nearly lost
Liliana under a bus at the junction just south of there: one green man -
the one we saw - said cross, but the red man adjacent to him said don't.
So I'm wondering - not about the way London was very quick to presume
terrorism was involved in the mass accident until it was shown that it
wasn't - but how many other, similar accidents have already occurred
there before but, because on those occasions fewer people were harmed,
they didn't get the media all excited?
Nick
That experiment has been going on for more than 10 years. It always
looked dangerous to me but everyone assured those who were concerned
that the drivers would have to take more care.
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
tiny.cc/KRWpics
Nick Odell
2017-10-09 10:52:45 UTC
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Post by Nick Odell
I can't be the only umrat to have walked up from South Ken to the
Royal Albert Hall this summer but I might have been the only umrat who
found the shared spaces to be a new experience. Looking at where the
accident occurred, it appears to be where Cromwell Road, as a
full-blown road, cuts across Exhibition Road where it is a shared
space. I nearly lost Liliana under a bus at the junction just south of
there: one green man - the one we saw - said cross, but the red man
adjacent to him said don't.
So I'm wondering - not about the way London was very quick to presume
terrorism was involved in the mass accident until it was shown that it
wasn't - but how many other, similar accidents have already occurred
there before but, because on those occasions fewer people were harmed,
they didn't get the media all excited?
Nick
That experiment has been going on for more than 10 years.  It always
looked dangerous to me but everyone assured those who were concerned
that the drivers would have to take more care.
Prior to this summer it was probably more than ten years since I'd been
there so I had never experienced it in that location before. I see they
are discussing the shared space aspect to this in Another Place and I
think I saw the suggestion that the authorities have so much invested in
shared spaces as a solution that they don't want to consider evidence
that says otherwise. But that may just be conspiracy theorising.

Nick
Chris McMillan
2017-10-09 16:33:40 UTC
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Post by Nick Odell
Post by Nick Odell
I can't be the only umrat to have walked up from South Ken to the
Royal Albert Hall this summer but I might have been the only umrat who
found the shared spaces to be a new experience. Looking at where the
accident occurred, it appears to be where Cromwell Road, as a
full-blown road, cuts across Exhibition Road where it is a shared
space. I nearly lost Liliana under a bus at the junction just south of
there: one green man - the one we saw - said cross, but the red man
adjacent to him said don't.
So I'm wondering - not about the way London was very quick to presume
terrorism was involved in the mass accident until it was shown that it
wasn't - but how many other, similar accidents have already occurred
there before but, because on those occasions fewer people were harmed,
they didn't get the media all excited?
Nick
That experiment has been going on for more than 10 years.  It always
looked dangerous to me but everyone assured those who were concerned
that the drivers would have to take more care.
Prior to this summer it was probably more than ten years since I'd been
there so I had never experienced it in that location before. I see they
are discussing the shared space aspect to this in Another Place and I
think I saw the suggestion that the authorities have so much invested in
shared spaces as a solution that they don't want to consider evidence
that says otherwise. But that may just be conspiracy theorising.
Nick
No it probably isn’t. Reading had theirs installed in 1992 (can still find
info on it, I just did.)

Sincerely Chris
Mike
2017-10-09 10:55:30 UTC
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Post by krw
Post by Nick Odell
I can't be the only umrat to have walked up from South Ken to the Royal
Albert Hall this summer but I might have been the only umrat who found
the shared spaces to be a new experience. Looking at where the accident
occurred, it appears to be where Cromwell Road, as a full-blown road,
cuts across Exhibition Road where it is a shared space. I nearly lost
Liliana under a bus at the junction just south of there: one green man -
the one we saw - said cross, but the red man adjacent to him said don't.
So I'm wondering - not about the way London was very quick to presume
terrorism was involved in the mass accident until it was shown that it
wasn't - but how many other, similar accidents have already occurred
there before but, because on those occasions fewer people were harmed,
they didn't get the media all excited?
Nick
That experiment has been going on for more than 10 years. It always
looked dangerous to me but everyone assured those who were concerned
that the drivers would have to take more care.
“Guffaw”
--
Toodle Pip
Penny
2017-10-09 14:51:18 UTC
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On Mon, 09 Oct 2017 10:55:30 GMT, Mike <***@ntlworld.com> scrawled
in the dust...
Post by krw
Post by Nick Odell
I can't be the only umrat to have walked up from South Ken to the Royal
Albert Hall this summer but I might have been the only umrat who found
the shared spaces to be a new experience. Looking at where the accident
occurred, it appears to be where Cromwell Road, as a full-blown road,
cuts across Exhibition Road where it is a shared space. I nearly lost
Liliana under a bus at the junction just south of there: one green man -
the one we saw - said cross, but the red man adjacent to him said don't.
So I'm wondering - not about the way London was very quick to presume
terrorism was involved in the mass accident until it was shown that it
wasn't - but how many other, similar accidents have already occurred
there before but, because on those occasions fewer people were harmed,
they didn't get the media all excited?
Nick
That experiment has been going on for more than 10 years. It always
looked dangerous to me but everyone assured those who were concerned
that the drivers would have to take more care.
“Guffaw”
I'm not familiar with this 'shared space' concept but if I've grasped it
from what you have written it sounds like the removal of traffic lights
from junctions.

It is said there are 5 sets of traffic lights on the main route through
Wales from Swansea to Chester and they are all in the town where I live.
Until a few years back there were only four but, to great local fury, a
roundabout was replaced with lights to better accommodate the passage of
wind turbine parts. The time that junction worked best (the roundabout had
been poorly designed) was after the lights had been installed but before
they were switched on.

Mined ewe, local folk generally proceed with care, you can tell the
furriners because they don't stop just because someone is walking close to
a zebra crossing.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Chris McMillan
2017-10-09 16:33:40 UTC
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Post by Penny
in the dust...
Post by krw
Post by Nick Odell
I can't be the only umrat to have walked up from South Ken to the Royal
Albert Hall this summer but I might have been the only umrat who found
the shared spaces to be a new experience. Looking at where the accident
occurred, it appears to be where Cromwell Road, as a full-blown road,
cuts across Exhibition Road where it is a shared space. I nearly lost
Liliana under a bus at the junction just south of there: one green man -
the one we saw - said cross, but the red man adjacent to him said don't.
So I'm wondering - not about the way London was very quick to presume
terrorism was involved in the mass accident until it was shown that it
wasn't - but how many other, similar accidents have already occurred
there before but, because on those occasions fewer people were harmed,
they didn't get the media all excited?
Nick
That experiment has been going on for more than 10 years. It always
looked dangerous to me but everyone assured those who were concerned
that the drivers would have to take more care.
“Guffaw”
I'm not familiar with this 'shared space' concept but if I've grasped it
from what you have written it sounds like the removal of traffic lights
from junctions.
It’s the ability to merge a section of road and pavement. Taking away the
pavement edging means those with very little or no sight lose the ability
to keep their location fearing they’ve strayed into the ‘old road’.

Sincerely Chris
Nick Odell
2017-10-09 17:04:06 UTC
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Post by Penny
in the dust...
Post by Mike
Post by krw
Post by Nick Odell
I can't be the only umrat to have walked up from South Ken to the Royal
Albert Hall this summer but I might have been the only umrat who found
the shared spaces to be a new experience. Looking at where the accident
occurred, it appears to be where Cromwell Road, as a full-blown road,
cuts across Exhibition Road where it is a shared space. I nearly lost
Liliana under a bus at the junction just south of there: one green man -
the one we saw - said cross, but the red man adjacent to him said don't.
So I'm wondering - not about the way London was very quick to presume
terrorism was involved in the mass accident until it was shown that it
wasn't - but how many other, similar accidents have already occurred
there before but, because on those occasions fewer people were harmed,
they didn't get the media all excited?
Nick
That experiment has been going on for more than 10 years. It always
looked dangerous to me but everyone assured those who were concerned
that the drivers would have to take more care.
“Guffaw”
I'm not familiar with this 'shared space' concept but if I've grasped it
from what you have written it sounds like the removal of traffic lights
from junctions.
<snip>
Not exactly. Maybe this map of the crash site (from the Sun) will explain:
Loading Image...

The cross-hatched area (different coloured slabs are used so it really
does look like this IRL) is the shared space. Traffic lights work as
normal but subject to left/right turn only signs, vehicles turn onto and
off the shared space. Liliana nearly went under a bus at the first
junction to the south of the crash site: there are two Pelican crossings
over the diagonal road but unless you are in the know it appears the
whole width is a single, wide crossing point.

Nick
Penny
2017-10-09 17:26:02 UTC
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On Mon, 9 Oct 2017 18:04:06 +0100, Nick Odell
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Penny
I'm not familiar with this 'shared space' concept but if I've grasped it
from what you have written it sounds like the removal of traffic lights
from junctions.
<snip>
https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/tp-map-crash-site.jpg
The cross-hatched area (different coloured slabs are used so it really
does look like this IRL) is the shared space. Traffic lights work as
normal but subject to left/right turn only signs, vehicles turn onto and
off the shared space. Liliana nearly went under a bus at the first
junction to the south of the crash site: there are two Pelican crossings
over the diagonal road but unless you are in the know it appears the
whole width is a single, wide crossing point.
Thanks, that does sound scary! Don't think I'd like it either on foot, or
driving.

I've only met that concept on foot/cycle paths. When I walked through the
park in Ashford some years ago the (fairly wide) paths had a white line
down the middle, I can't recall if all the tarmac was the same colour but
frankly different colours would not have helped. At each end of the path
there were signs to say which side was which but walking off the grass onto
the path (as you do) there was no clue anywhere. I'd no idea part of it was
designated for bicycles until a cyclist shouted at me.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Mike
2017-10-09 17:55:13 UTC
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Post by Penny
On Mon, 9 Oct 2017 18:04:06 +0100, Nick Odell
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Penny
I'm not familiar with this 'shared space' concept but if I've grasped it
from what you have written it sounds like the removal of traffic lights
from junctions.
<snip>
https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/tp-map-crash-site.jpg
The cross-hatched area (different coloured slabs are used so it really
does look like this IRL) is the shared space. Traffic lights work as
normal but subject to left/right turn only signs, vehicles turn onto and
off the shared space. Liliana nearly went under a bus at the first
junction to the south of the crash site: there are two Pelican crossings
over the diagonal road but unless you are in the know it appears the
whole width is a single, wide crossing point.
Thanks, that does sound scary! Don't think I'd like it either on foot, or
driving.
I've only met that concept on foot/cycle paths. When I walked through the
park in Ashford some years ago the (fairly wide) paths had a white line
down the middle, I can't recall if all the tarmac was the same colour but
frankly different colours would not have helped. At each end of the path
there were signs to say which side was which but walking off the grass onto
the path (as you do) there was no clue anywhere. I'd no idea part of it was
designated for bicycles until a cyclist shouted at me.
Until we and others pointed it out, we had a path with sharing space for
cyclists where the signs at both ends indicated that the cyclist’s area was
on the left hand side!
--
Toodle Pip
Chris McMillan
2017-10-10 09:39:43 UTC
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Post by Nick Odell
Post by Penny
in the dust...
Post by Mike
Post by krw
Post by Nick Odell
I can't be the only umrat to have walked up from South Ken to the Royal
Albert Hall this summer but I might have been the only umrat who found
the shared spaces to be a new experience. Looking at where the accident
occurred, it appears to be where Cromwell Road, as a full-blown road,
cuts across Exhibition Road where it is a shared space. I nearly lost
Liliana under a bus at the junction just south of there: one green man -
the one we saw - said cross, but the red man adjacent to him said don't.
So I'm wondering - not about the way London was very quick to presume
terrorism was involved in the mass accident until it was shown that it
wasn't - but how many other, similar accidents have already occurred
there before but, because on those occasions fewer people were harmed,
they didn't get the media all excited?
Nick
That experiment has been going on for more than 10 years. It always
looked dangerous to me but everyone assured those who were concerned
that the drivers would have to take more care.
“Guffaw”
I'm not familiar with this 'shared space' concept but if I've grasped it
from what you have written it sounds like the removal of traffic lights
from junctions.
<snip>
https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/tp-map-crash-site.jpg
The cross-hatched area (different coloured slabs are used so it really
does look like this IRL) is the shared space. Traffic lights work as
normal but subject to left/right turn only signs, vehicles turn onto and
off the shared space. Liliana nearly went under a bus at the first
junction to the south of the crash site: there are two Pelican crossings
over the diagonal road but unless you are in the know it appears the
whole width is a single, wide crossing point.
Nick
Ugh! And that’s safe? Liliana is a good example of it being unsafe simply
as a tourist who can’t be expected to know the lie of the land.

Sincerely Chris
Chris McMillan
2017-10-09 16:27:54 UTC
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Post by krw
Post by Nick Odell
I can't be the only umrat to have walked up from South Ken to the Royal
Albert Hall this summer but I might have been the only umrat who found
the shared spaces to be a new experience. Looking at where the accident
occurred, it appears to be where Cromwell Road, as a full-blown road,
cuts across Exhibition Road where it is a shared space. I nearly lost
Liliana under a bus at the junction just south of there: one green man -
the one we saw - said cross, but the red man adjacent to him said don't.
So I'm wondering - not about the way London was very quick to presume
terrorism was involved in the mass accident until it was shown that it
wasn't - but how many other, similar accidents have already occurred
there before but, because on those occasions fewer people were harmed,
they didn't get the media all excited?
Nick
That experiment has been going on for more than 10 years. It always
looked dangerous to me but everyone assured those who were concerned
that the drivers would have to take more care.
Utter bolleaux. Traffic no longer slows down at crossings minus lights.
Some of my local friends have had their lives restricted because they’re
not convinced it’s ever safe to cross at crossings with no lights, some so
called do gooders will take you across when your ears tell you it’s not
safe and you have to hope they’ve got it wrong. This is particularly
difficult with a guide dog in hand as the dog has a mixed message shown it.

What with shared environments, destroyed crossings, cyclists preferring
pavements to on road marked cycle paths and simply the ear phone
pedestrians have forced me to carry and use a symbol cane thus singling
myself out. Grrrroooowwwwllll!


Sincerely Chris
Btms
2017-10-10 15:30:46 UTC
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Post by krw
Post by Nick Odell
I can't be the only umrat to have walked up from South Ken to the Royal
Albert Hall this summer but I might have been the only umrat who found
the shared spaces to be a new experience. Looking at where the accident
occurred, it appears to be where Cromwell Road, as a full-blown road,
cuts across Exhibition Road where it is a shared space. I nearly lost
Liliana under a bus at the junction just south of there: one green man -
the one we saw - said cross, but the red man adjacent to him said don't.
So I'm wondering - not about the way London was very quick to presume
terrorism was involved in the mass accident until it was shown that it
wasn't - but how many other, similar accidents have already occurred
there before but, because on those occasions fewer people were harmed,
they didn't get the media all excited?
Nick
That experiment has been going on for more than 10 years. It always
looked dangerous to me but everyone assured those who were concerned
that the drivers would have to take more care.
We now have such a system in Cornwall. Virtually closed Bodmin town centre
for 18 months during construction. This, combined with duelling the A30,
caused dreadful traffic congestion way beyond the town.
--
BTMS - Equine Advisor Extraordinaire.
Chris McMillan
2017-10-09 16:27:53 UTC
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Post by Nick Odell
I can't be the only umrat to have walked up from South Ken to the Royal
Albert Hall this summer but I might have been the only umrat who found
the shared spaces to be a new experience. Looking at where the accident
occurred, it appears to be where Cromwell Road, as a full-blown road,
cuts across Exhibition Road where it is a shared space. I nearly lost
Liliana under a bus at the junction just south of there: one green man -
the one we saw - said cross, but the red man adjacent to him said don't.
So I'm wondering - not about the way London was very quick to presume
terrorism was involved in the mass accident until it was shown that it
wasn't - but how many other, similar accidents have already occurred
there before but, because on those occasions fewer people were harmed,
they didn't get the media all excited?
Nick
I’ve not had need to, and as a known shared spaces environment and all too
familiar with the concept am glad not to need to. That particular one is
probably the most well known of the recent ones. Shared spaces (or as they
were first branded shared pavements) is not a new concept at all, those set
up in previous decades where protests took place were ignored. More recent
protests failed to reverse anything and we just have to live with its’
consequences.

Sincerely Chris
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