Discussion:
Harrison
(too old to reply)
Btms
2018-05-07 18:57:19 UTC
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Is something going happen to upset the engagement? Like him being posted?
Or doesn’t this happen?
SODAM
2018-05-07 23:05:40 UTC
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Post by Btms
Is something going happen to upset the engagement? Like him being posted?
Or doesn’t this happen?
I think he will do so well on his appraisal that he will get promoted to
sergeant....in the Met / Cumbria.

That would get rid of another two characters if the wedding goes ahead, or
Fallon will choose to stay behind with her business interests. Or maybe
Jolene could get ill and need help, so that Fallon has to stay and help out
with her mum / The Bull.
--
SODAM
The thinking umrat’s choice for editor
the Omrud
2018-05-08 08:23:56 UTC
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Post by SODAM
Post by Btms
Is something going happen to upset the engagement? Like him being posted?
Or doesn’t this happen?
I think he will do so well on his appraisal that he will get promoted to
sergeant....in the Met / Cumbria.
I agree that they're setting us up for his promotion, but it's much more
complicated these days. The Constable has to pass the Sergeant exams
and then continue to work as a Constable until they successfully apply
for an advertised Sergeant post, which could (by choice) be anywhere in
the country. You don't turn up expecting an appraisal and come out as a
Sergeant. Forces are more like separate businesses and they don't move
staff to other Forces.
--
David
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-05-08 09:33:02 UTC
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Post by the Omrud
Post by SODAM
Post by Btms
Is something going happen to upset the engagement? Like him being posted?
Or doesn’t this happen?
I think he will do so well on his appraisal that he will get promoted to
sergeant....in the Met / Cumbria.
I agree that they're setting us up for his promotion, but it's much
more complicated these days. The Constable has to pass the Sergeant
exams and then continue to work as a Constable until they successfully
apply for an advertised Sergeant post, which could (by choice) be
anywhere in the country. You don't turn up expecting an appraisal and
So at least you don't suddenly get posted somewhere else in the country
at short notice. That's a good thing.
Post by the Omrud
come out as a Sergeant. Forces are more like separate businesses and
they don't move staff to other Forces.
This whole PDR (personal development review) brings back unpleasant
memories for me. Not that the process with any of my bosses has itself
been particularly unpleasant, and the instigation of annual reviews at
which you can raise matters is basically a good thing: it's the
assumptions, explicit or otherwise, that lie behind them that are loaded
against the guy whose ambition is only to do a good job. Lack of
ambition is viewed with suspicion - because all such schemes are set up,
and tweaked, by management types who, almost by definition, _do_ have
ambition to rise in the company, so can't understand those who
definitely don't want to, but just want to become the best widget
straightener (or whatever) there is.

It's tied up with the principle that the only progress that's respected
in a lot of companies is the management route. A lot of companies pay
lip-service to the concept of the alternative career path - inventing
titles such as "senior specialist" - but don't really support it in any
way.

(A great friend who did achieve Senior Specialist status said that meant
he was elderly and narrow-minded. But then he was a great wordsmith;
would say at the end of the day he was off home to "cook some heads and
wash some bottles", as he was head cook and bottle-washer. Or if seeing
"half price garden centre sale", would say "I don't want to buy a garden
centre".)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of
them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for
science intact. - Carl Sagan (interview w. Psychology Today published '96-1-1)
Vicky
2018-05-08 10:45:54 UTC
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On Tue, 8 May 2018 10:33:02 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
This whole PDR (personal development review) brings back unpleasant
memories for me. Not that the process with any of my bosses has itself
been particularly unpleasant, and the instigation of annual reviews at
which you can raise matters is basically a good thing: it's the
assumptions, explicit or otherwise, that lie behind them that are loaded
against the guy whose ambition is only to do a good job. Lack of
ambition is viewed with suspicion - because all such schemes are set up,
and tweaked, by management types who, almost by definition, _do_ have
ambition to rise in the company, so can't understand those who
definitely don't want to, but just want to become the best widget
straightener (or whatever) there is.
MTAAW. The process is boring and a ritual. In Education it is
mandatory to continue to improve yourself. You have to set targets and
do projects and courses. It feels false and imposed. I was all for
doing new training if it seems relevant and interests me but being
told you need 5 points of improvement is just stupid. I did dyslexia
support qualifications and a BSL course because I wanted to and they
were relevant and useful. Some years I didn't want to do anything,
just my job.
--
Vicky
Penny
2018-05-08 12:06:34 UTC
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On Tue, 08 May 2018 11:45:54 +0100, Vicky <***@gmail.com> scrawled
in the dust...
Post by Vicky
In Education it is
mandatory to continue to improve yourself. You have to set targets and
do projects and courses. It feels false and imposed. I was all for
doing new training if it seems relevant and interests me but being
told you need 5 points of improvement is just stupid. I did dyslexia
support qualifications and a BSL course because I wanted to and they
were relevant and useful. Some years I didn't want to do anything,
just my job.
Fair enough. Sadly, in other workplaces, where you start at the bottom as
the assistant assistant's minion and work your way up, learning on the job
but never doing any courses or gaining any bits of paper, you can find
yourself, as S-i-L did, the Chief of your 'department'.

Then some management bod decides there should be graduates in all top
positions, reinvents your job, makes you redundant and invites you to apply
for this newly invented position which they already know you can do because
you have been doing it for years.

Needless to say he didn't get it (though I believe the graduate who did
didn't last long) and found himself in a limited job market with lots of
transferable skills but no bits of paper.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Sam Plusnet
2018-05-08 19:38:59 UTC
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Post by Penny
in the dust...
Post by Vicky
In Education it is
mandatory to continue to improve yourself. You have to set targets and
do projects and courses. It feels false and imposed. I was all for
doing new training if it seems relevant and interests me but being
told you need 5 points of improvement is just stupid. I did dyslexia
support qualifications and a BSL course because I wanted to and they
were relevant and useful. Some years I didn't want to do anything,
just my job.
Fair enough. Sadly, in other workplaces, where you start at the bottom as
the assistant assistant's minion and work your way up, learning on the job
but never doing any courses or gaining any bits of paper, you can find
yourself, as S-i-L did, the Chief of your 'department'.
Then some management bod decides there should be graduates in all top
positions, reinvents your job, makes you redundant and invites you to apply
for this newly invented position which they already know you can do because
you have been doing it for years.
Needless to say he didn't get it (though I believe the graduate who did
didn't last long) and found himself in a limited job market with lots of
transferable skills but no bits of paper.
HR departments love certificates, diplomas and similar pieces of paper
because they are quantifiable & thus make it easier slot people into
pigeon-holes without bothering with silly details like knowledge,
experience (beyond statements like "x years experience of XCVB") ability
or competence.
--
Sam Plusnet
BrritSki
2018-05-09 06:42:05 UTC
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Post by Penny
in the dust...
<snip moaning about hopeless companies>

You lot should all have worked for a decent company like TI where the
annual review was valued by almost everyone, solid contributors were
rewarded well and outstanding contributors were rewarded spectacularly.
People were kept in the jobs where they were most effective (e.g. Jack
Kilby) and nobody was promoted who didn't want to be a manager and were
capable of it.
Their HR department was excellent as well, even before waife was part of
it...
Btms
2018-05-09 07:20:14 UTC
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Post by BrritSki
Post by Penny
in the dust...
<snip moaning about hopeless companies>
You lot should all have worked for a decent company like TI where the
annual review was valued by almost everyone, solid contributors were
rewarded well and outstanding contributors were rewarded spectacularly.
People were kept in the jobs where they were most effective (e.g. Jack
Kilby) and nobody was promoted who didn't want to be a manager and were
capable of it.
Their HR department was excellent as well, even before waife was part of
it...
Can I say ditto IBM. Of course things change but this was my experience.
--
BTMS - Equine Advisor Extraordinaire.
the Omrud
2018-05-09 11:16:37 UTC
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Post by Btms
Post by BrritSki
Post by Penny
in the dust...
<snip moaning about hopeless companies>
You lot should all have worked for a decent company like TI where the
annual review was valued by almost everyone, solid contributors were
rewarded well and outstanding contributors were rewarded spectacularly.
People were kept in the jobs where they were most effective (e.g. Jack
Kilby) and nobody was promoted who didn't want to be a manager and were
capable of it.
Their HR department was excellent as well, even before waife was part of
it...
Can I say ditto IBM. Of course things change but this was my experience.
Ditto ICL and (to a slightly lesser extent) Fujitsu (except for the cash
rewards, where we always lagged behind US businesses). For example my
role as a Distinguished Engineer brought considerable freedom on top of
my own job, more travel, an expectation that I would go direct to the
board if necessary, a tolerance of my disappearing to take part in Good
Works or visit other parts of the business because I though it was
important, but no financial benefit. In some US businesses, the
position of Distingushed Engineer brings brought significant salary and
perk benefits.

Perhaps it's an IT thing. About 20 years ago I declined to have staff
working under me any more as I was spending all my time marking their
work and not doing the engineering I was actually very good at. Nobody
complained and I never had another subordinate.
--
David
BrritSki
2018-05-09 13:49:22 UTC
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Post by the Omrud
Post by BrritSki
Post by Penny
in the dust...
<snip moaning about hopeless companies>
You lot should all have worked for a decent company like TI where the
annual review was valued by almost everyone, solid contributors were
rewarded well and outstanding contributors were rewarded spectacularly.
People were kept in the jobs where they were most effective (e.g. Jack
Kilby) and nobody was promoted who didn't want to be a manager and were
capable of it.
Their HR department was excellent as well, even before waife was part of
it...
Can I say ditto IBM.  Of course things change but this was my experience.
Ditto ICL and (to a slightly lesser extent) Fujitsu (except for the cash
rewards, where we always lagged behind US businesses).  For example my
role as a Distinguished Engineer brought considerable freedom on top of
my own job, more travel, an expectation that I would go direct to the
board if necessary, a tolerance of my disappearing to take part in Good
Works or visit other parts of the business because I though it was
important, but no financial benefit.  In some US businesses, the
position of Distingushed Engineer brings brought significant salary and
perk benefits.
<Languid wave>

I was a Member of Group Technical Staff which had perks, but nowhere
near the level you describe which would have been a Fellow or Principal
Fellow.
Vicky
2018-05-09 14:02:38 UTC
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Post by the Omrud
Post by Btms
Post by BrritSki
Post by Penny
in the dust...
<snip moaning about hopeless companies>
You lot should all have worked for a decent company like TI where the
annual review was valued by almost everyone, solid contributors were
rewarded well and outstanding contributors were rewarded spectacularly.
People were kept in the jobs where they were most effective (e.g. Jack
Kilby) and nobody was promoted who didn't want to be a manager and were
capable of it.
Their HR department was excellent as well, even before waife was part of
it...
Can I say ditto IBM. Of course things change but this was my experience.
Ditto ICL and (to a slightly lesser extent) Fujitsu (except for the cash
rewards, where we always lagged behind US businesses). For example my
role as a Distinguished Engineer brought considerable freedom on top of
my own job, more travel, an expectation that I would go direct to the
board if necessary, a tolerance of my disappearing to take part in Good
Works or visit other parts of the business because I though it was
important, but no financial benefit. In some US businesses, the
position of Distingushed Engineer brings brought significant salary and
perk benefits.
Perhaps it's an IT thing. About 20 years ago I declined to have staff
working under me any more as I was spending all my time marking their
work and not doing the engineering I was actually very good at. Nobody
complained and I never had another subordinate.
Yebbut I was in Education. It was good at first. Depended on the
department head. 2 good ones and 3rd time unlucky. I did off-site
things too at first. Basic skills elsehwere. London Underground. Some
of the leaders of engineering teams had to rely on their seconds to
read danger notices....courses in job centres for second language
speakers and those who wanted to brush up literacy or numeracy.

English in care homes for the incoming East Europeans who took the
jobs looking after the elderly. And then as they needed to get
qualifications, and so did native speakers, they needed literacy, and
then similar courses on building sites for the gangs of men who spoke
no English, except for the leader. They needed to qualify oj safety
courses.

Then we organised Food Hygiene courses and the English to support
those for the many outlets in the area dealing with food in any way.

Then they decided this was a manager job and I didn't qualify as my
accreditation was not current and would I like to re-do it? And
meanwhile we'd earned quite a lot of money from various sources,
funding and private. I carried on doing the job with the level I was
at. :(
--
Vicky
Btms
2018-05-09 12:55:10 UTC
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Post by Btms
Post by BrritSki
Post by Penny
in the dust...
<snip moaning about hopeless companies>
You lot should all have worked for a decent company like TI where the
annual review was valued by almost everyone, solid contributors were
rewarded well and outstanding contributors were rewarded spectacularly.
People were kept in the jobs where they were most effective (e.g. Jack
Kilby) and nobody was promoted who didn't want to be a manager and were
capable of it.
Their HR department was excellent as well, even before waife was part of
it...
Can I say ditto IBM. Of course things change but this was my experience.
Well years later, (for reasons I won’t bore you with) some of their
employees were my clients. Their job levels ranged from high level to
interns. They didn’t know of my history. They presented IBM as good
employers, even when some were going through something of a career crisis.
--
BTMS - Equine Advisor Extraordinaire.
Serena Blanchflower
2018-05-09 13:44:45 UTC
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Post by Btms
Post by Btms
Post by BrritSki
Post by Penny
in the dust...
<snip moaning about hopeless companies>
You lot should all have worked for a decent company like TI where the
annual review was valued by almost everyone, solid contributors were
rewarded well and outstanding contributors were rewarded spectacularly.
People were kept in the jobs where they were most effective (e.g. Jack
Kilby) and nobody was promoted who didn't want to be a manager and were
capable of it.
Their HR department was excellent as well, even before waife was part of
it...
Can I say ditto IBM. Of course things change but this was my experience.
Well years later, (for reasons I won’t bore you with) some of their
employees were my clients. Their job levels ranged from high level to
interns. They didn’t know of my history. They presented IBM as good
employers, even when some were going through something of a career crisis.
They've certainly been very good to me but, from what I hear, I don't
think they're nearly as good as they used to be. That said, I suspect
that's true across the job market, so they may well still be at the
better end of the spectrum.
--
Best wishes, Serena
No act of kindness, no matter how small, is ever wasted. (Aesop)
Chris J Dixon
2018-05-09 07:31:11 UTC
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Post by BrritSki
People were kept in the jobs where they were most effective (e.g. Jack
Kilby) and nobody was promoted who didn't want to be a manager and were
capable of it.
There was a time when my chief engineer and engineering manager,
whilst both excellent engineers, had no real management skills.
This was such a shame, as their real talents were wasted, and
their ineptitude diminished the work of those in their charge.

I'm not sure what would have happened if we had been allowed to
share our evaluation, in the way that some systems encourage
these days, but it would have been interesting to find out.

I recall one of my annual appraisals, termed a "Merit Assessment"
(which was really just a way to allocate a budget for annual
increments by working backwards from the financial limitations,
like physics practicals) where I was given no enhancement because
I had not "expanded my role".

I suggested this might in some way be linked to my having
performed all those tasks which had be allocated to me, but
management hadn't chosen to "expand my role". This was not a
fruitful argument.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham
'48/33 M B+ G++ A L(-) I S-- CH0(--)(p) Ar- T+ H0 ?Q
***@cdixon.me.uk
Plant amazing Acers.
Penny
2018-05-09 07:31:17 UTC
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On Wed, 9 May 2018 08:42:05 +0200, BrritSki <***@gmail.com>
scrawled in the dust...
Post by BrritSki
Post by Penny
in the dust...
<snip moaning about hopeless companies>
You lot should all have worked for a decent company like TI where the
annual review was valued by almost everyone, solid contributors were
rewarded well and outstanding contributors were rewarded spectacularly.
People were kept in the jobs where they were most effective (e.g. Jack
Kilby) and nobody was promoted who didn't want to be a manager and were
capable of it.
Their HR department was excellent as well, even before waife was part of
it...
They (probably very sensibly) made my bother redundant...
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
BrritSki
2018-05-09 07:40:14 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by BrritSki
Post by Penny
in the dust...
<snip moaning about hopeless companies>
You lot should all have worked for a decent company like TI where the
annual review was valued by almost everyone, solid contributors were
rewarded well and outstanding contributors were rewarded spectacularly.
People were kept in the jobs where they were most effective (e.g. Jack
Kilby) and nobody was promoted who didn't want to be a manager and were
capable of it.
Their HR department was excellent as well, even before waife was part of
it...
They (probably very sensibly) made my bother redundant...
Who TI did ?

They also made waife and I redundant when they decided to close the
Bedford facility, but were very generous in the redundancy terms,
multiples of what they were legally obliged to provide in compensation
and with lots of help from HR in the close-down period with training,
counselling etc.
the Omrud
2018-05-09 11:18:56 UTC
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Post by BrritSki
Post by Penny
They (probably very sensibly) made my bother redundant...
Who TI did ?
They also made waife and I redundant when they decided to close the
Bedford facility, but were very generous in the redundancy terms,
multiples of what they were legally obliged to provide in compensation
and with lots of help from HR in the close-down period with training,
counselling etc.
I was quite keen to be made redundant in the last two or three years
before I retired: I was contractually entitled to a redundancy payment
which would have totalled about two year's salary. Unfortunately, my
department was understaffed and I was apparently too useful.
--
David
Vicky
2018-05-09 14:04:22 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by the Omrud
Post by BrritSki
Post by Penny
They (probably very sensibly) made my bother redundant...
Who TI did ?
They also made waife and I redundant when they decided to close the
Bedford facility, but were very generous in the redundancy terms,
multiples of what they were legally obliged to provide in compensation
and with lots of help from HR in the close-down period with training,
counselling etc.
I was quite keen to be made redundant in the last two or three years
before I retired: I was contractually entitled to a redundancy payment
which would have totalled about two year's salary. Unfortunately, my
department was understaffed and I was apparently too useful.
M TAAW! I applied three times when they asked for voluntary
redundancies, but I was too expensive I think. In the end I did 2
years over my retirement age.But that paid quite well too.
--
Vicky
Chris J Dixon
2018-05-09 14:45:03 UTC
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Post by Vicky
M TAAW! I applied three times when they asked for voluntary
redundancies, but I was too expensive I think. In the end I did 2
years over my retirement age.But that paid quite well too.
My response during my annual review at age 59 to "Where do you
see yourself in 12 months' time?" was "Retired!"

I had previously been in a department where I really enjoyed the
work, and felt I was making a genuine contribution, using my
engineering experience and ability with databases. Sadly, the
company decided to close the department completely, and I was
moved internally, ending up in a section which seemed to be in a
strange position. We had to come up with ways to reduce the total
cost of fleet maintenance. This inevitably required initial
outlay, so pretty well everything we suggested was turned down.

Shortly afterwards the opportunity arose to apply for voluntary
redundancy. I applied more in hope than expectation, as with my
10 years' service it would cost them almost as much as keeping
me, but my luck was in. I was a square peg in a round hole, and I
think it was probably realised that this was the best option for
all concerned.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham
'48/33 M B+ G++ A L(-) I S-- CH0(--)(p) Ar- T+ H0 ?Q
***@cdixon.me.uk
Plant amazing Acers.
Penny
2018-05-09 18:06:41 UTC
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On Wed, 9 May 2018 09:40:14 +0200, BrritSki <***@gmail.com>
scrawled in the dust...
Post by BrritSki
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by BrritSki
You lot should all have worked for a decent company like TI where the
annual review was valued by almost everyone, solid contributors were
rewarded well and outstanding contributors were rewarded spectacularly.
People were kept in the jobs where they were most effective (e.g. Jack
Kilby) and nobody was promoted who didn't want to be a manager and were
capable of it.
Their HR department was excellent as well, even before waife was part of
it...
They (probably very sensibly) made my bother redundant...
Who TI did ?
Yes.

He brought his redundancy money into the husgod's business - against my
counsel as I knew what he was like. He'd had some management training with
TI but was one of the worst people managers I've ever met - while the
husgod was one of the best.

I don't know the details but believe he had had some problems at TI so
suspect they were pleased to be rid.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
BrritSki
2018-05-09 19:56:10 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by BrritSki
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by BrritSki
You lot should all have worked for a decent company like TI where the
annual review was valued by almost everyone, solid contributors were
rewarded well and outstanding contributors were rewarded spectacularly.
People were kept in the jobs where they were most effective (e.g. Jack
Kilby) and nobody was promoted who didn't want to be a manager and were
capable of it.
Their HR department was excellent as well, even before waife was part of
it...
They (probably very sensibly) made my bother redundant...
Who TI did ?
Yes.
He brought his redundancy money into the husgod's business - against my
counsel as I knew what he was like. He'd had some management training with
TI but was one of the worst people managers I've ever met - while the
husgod was one of the best.
I don't know the details but believe he had had some problems at TI so
suspect they were pleased to be rid.
They certainly didn't keep and dead wood around. Which office was this
and what was his name ? My reply-to address is good if you;d prefer to
keep it private...
Sam Plusnet
2018-05-09 19:45:36 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by BrritSki
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by BrritSki
Post by Penny
in the dust...
<snip moaning about hopeless companies>
You lot should all have worked for a decent company like TI where the
annual review was valued by almost everyone, solid contributors were
rewarded well and outstanding contributors were rewarded spectacularly.
People were kept in the jobs where they were most effective (e.g. Jack
Kilby) and nobody was promoted who didn't want to be a manager and were
capable of it.
Their HR department was excellent as well, even before waife was part of
it...
They (probably very sensibly) made my bother redundant...
Who TI did ?
They also made waife and I redundant when they decided to close the
Bedford facility, but were very generous in the redundancy terms,
multiples of what they were legally obliged to provide in compensation
and with lots of help from HR in the close-down period with training,
counselling etc.
I spent a couple of decades with a firm which had quite generous
redundancy terms.
They lost out in a hostile takeover & the new company 'tweaked' those
terms about 6 months after taking control.
i.e. Redundancy = legal minimum.
This was followed by large scale closure of sites & wholesale redundancies.

This might explain why my view is less rosy than yours.
--
Sam Plusnet
LFS
2018-05-09 11:17:21 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by BrritSki
Post by Penny
in the dust...
<snip moaning about hopeless companies>
You lot should all have worked for a decent company like TI where the
annual review was valued by almost everyone, solid contributors were
rewarded well and outstanding contributors were rewarded spectacularly.
People were kept in the jobs where they were most effective (e.g. Jack
Kilby) and nobody was promoted who didn't want to be a manager and were
capable of it.
Their HR department was excellent as well, even before waife was part of
it...
There was a lot of fuss when an annual PDR system was introduced at
Brookes but I found it very helpful. I used my PDR to manage upwards: it
was very easy to present the dean with my list of priorities and tell
him how he could help.
--
Laura (emulate St George for email)
Sam Plusnet
2018-05-09 19:35:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by BrritSki
Post by Penny
in the dust...
<snip moaning about hopeless companies>
You lot should all have worked for a decent company like TI where the
annual review was valued by almost everyone, solid contributors were
rewarded well and outstanding contributors were rewarded spectacularly.
People were kept in the jobs where they were most effective (e.g. Jack
Kilby) and nobody was promoted who didn't want to be a manager and were
capable of it.
Their HR department was excellent as well, even before waife was part of
it...
I had to carry out far more annual reviews than I care to recall.
Each year brought a new set of rules & 'guidelines'.
That which was a key feature of the review in one year, became anathema
in the following year. Each review must contain at least 25% of the
currently fashionable business buzzwords.
Opportunities to advance those employees who were actually quite good at
the job were very limited.
--
Sam Plusnet
Mike
2018-05-08 11:20:20 UTC
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Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by the Omrud
Post by SODAM
Post by Btms
Is something going happen to upset the engagement? Like him being posted?
Or doesn’t this happen?
I think he will do so well on his appraisal that he will get promoted to
sergeant....in the Met / Cumbria.
I agree that they're setting us up for his promotion, but it's much
more complicated these days. The Constable has to pass the Sergeant
exams and then continue to work as a Constable until they successfully
apply for an advertised Sergeant post, which could (by choice) be
anywhere in the country. You don't turn up expecting an appraisal and
So at least you don't suddenly get posted somewhere else in the country
at short notice. That's a good thing.
Post by the Omrud
come out as a Sergeant. Forces are more like separate businesses and
they don't move staff to other Forces.
This whole PDR (personal development review) brings back unpleasant
memories for me. Not that the process with any of my bosses has itself
been particularly unpleasant, and the instigation of annual reviews at
which you can raise matters is basically a good thing: it's the
assumptions, explicit or otherwise, that lie behind them that are loaded
against the guy whose ambition is only to do a good job. Lack of
ambition is viewed with suspicion - because all such schemes are set up,
and tweaked, by management types who, almost by definition, _do_ have
ambition to rise in the company, so can't understand those who
definitely don't want to, but just want to become the best widget
straightener (or whatever) there is.
It's tied up with the principle that the only progress that's respected
in a lot of companies is the management route. A lot of companies pay
lip-service to the concept of the alternative career path - inventing
titles such as "senior specialist" - but don't really support it in any
way.
(A great friend who did achieve Senior Specialist status said that meant
he was elderly and narrow-minded. But then he was a great wordsmith;
would say at the end of the day he was off home to "cook some heads and
wash some bottles", as he was head cook and bottle-washer. Or if seeing
"half price garden centre sale", would say "I don't want to buy a garden
centre".)
Amongst the numerous training courses I attended in my last few working
years was one for conducting PDR’s with my staff; I didn’t actually ever
attend my own as the inertia in the system meant two or three years could
elapse before being ‘summoned’ and by then, I only had two or three years
to retirement. I really wanted to continue being a ‘widget straightener’
but, management wanted me to be a ‘senior specialist’, by this time
cutbacks and future plans were rearing their ugly heads and talk of
redundancy were on the horizon. The next thing was ‘promotion’*, Chief
Technician was part of the job but what with elfin safety, buildings
manager, equipment procurement and budgeting etc., they required a mug to
oversee all the technical provision and oversee maintenance of buildings
and facilities. So... I became ‘Facilities and Technical Services Manager’.

* In this instance, ‘promotion’ meant more responsibilities, more working
hours with no upper limit but, no increase in salary.:-(

I had been very happy being an audio technician..... (In rationalization,
this post was abolished and the choice was made for me - though it took
several years of planning a new site to be refurbished before ‘they’ were
prepared to admit that no audio facility was planned for the new site.)
--
Toodle Pip
Penny
2018-05-08 12:11:23 UTC
Permalink
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On Tue, 08 May 2018 11:20:20 GMT, Mike <***@ntlworld.com> scrawled
in the dust...
The next thing was ‘promotion’*, Chief
Technician was part of the job but what with elfin safety, buildings
manager, equipment procurement and budgeting etc., they required a mug to
oversee all the technical provision and oversee maintenance of buildings
and facilities. So... I became ‘Facilities and Technical Services Manager’.
* In this instance, ‘promotion’ meant more responsibilities, more working
hours with no upper limit but, no increase in salary.:-(
I had been very happy being an audio technician..... (In rationalization,
this post was abolished and the choice was made for me - though it took
several years of planning a new site to be refurbished before ‘they’ were
prepared to admit that no audio facility was planned for the new site.)
That sounds very similar to S-i-L's story but with added courses - he
probably should have stayed at the University theatre (where there probably
were courses on offer) but would not have risen to Chief Tech before he was
40 there.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
John Ashby
2018-05-08 11:21:58 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
(A great friend who did achieve Senior Specialist status said that meant
he was elderly and narrow-minded. But then he was a great wordsmith;
would say at the end of the day he was off home to "cook some heads and
wash some bottles", as he was head cook and bottle-washer. Or if seeing
"half price garden centre sale", would say "I don't want to buy a garden
centre".)
Many years ago I was puzzled by who was buying all these car boots.

john
Sam Plusnet
2018-05-08 19:41:46 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by John Ashby
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
(A great friend who did achieve Senior Specialist status said that
meant he was elderly and narrow-minded. But then he was a great
wordsmith; would say at the end of the day he was off home to "cook
some heads and wash some bottles", as he was head cook and
bottle-washer. Or if seeing "half price garden centre sale", would say
"I don't want to buy a garden centre".)
Many years ago I was puzzled by who was buying all these car boots.
Well, have you tried driving in stilettos?
--
Sam Plusnet
John Ashby
2018-05-08 19:53:42 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by John Ashby
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
(A great friend who did achieve Senior Specialist status said that
meant he was elderly and narrow-minded. But then he was a great
wordsmith; would say at the end of the day he was off home to "cook
some heads and wash some bottles", as he was head cook and
bottle-washer. Or if seeing "half price garden centre sale", would
say "I don't want to buy a garden centre".)
Many years ago I was puzzled by who was buying all these car boots.
Well, have you tried driving in stilettos?
I'm taking the Fifth on that.

john
BrritSki
2018-05-09 06:43:05 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by John Ashby
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
(A great friend who did achieve Senior Specialist status said that
meant he was elderly and narrow-minded. But then he was a great
wordsmith; would say at the end of the day he was off home to "cook
some heads and wash some bottles", as he was head cook and
bottle-washer. Or if seeing "half price garden centre sale", would
say "I don't want to buy a garden centre".)
Many years ago I was puzzled by who was buying all these car boots.
Well, have you tried driving in stilettos?
I like to drive in stilettos...
under the fifth rib and aiming up, but only for people who REALLY
deserve it.
Mike
2018-05-09 07:55:26 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by John Ashby
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
(A great friend who did achieve Senior Specialist status said that
meant he was elderly and narrow-minded. But then he was a great
wordsmith; would say at the end of the day he was off home to "cook
some heads and wash some bottles", as he was head cook and
bottle-washer. Or if seeing "half price garden centre sale", would say
"I don't want to buy a garden centre".)
Many years ago I was puzzled by who was buying all these car boots.
Well, have you tried driving in stilettos?
Not much point is there?
--
Toodle Pip
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-05-09 01:34:26 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by John Ashby
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
(A great friend who did achieve Senior Specialist status said that
meant he was elderly and narrow-minded. But then he was a great
wordsmith; would say at the end of the day he was off home to "cook
some heads and wash some bottles", as he was head cook and
bottle-washer. Or if seeing "half price garden centre sale", would
say "I don't want to buy a garden centre".)
Many years ago I was puzzled by who was buying all these car boots.
john
Whereas I actually wanted one (I'd backed into a short pole that I
couldn't see, and put a dent in my boot lid) but couldn't find one ...
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"Oh, stick it up your nose." "Yes, which is precisely the sort of thing we need
to know, I mean, do people want fire that can be fitted nasally?" (s1, fit
six.)
Mike
2018-05-08 11:14:08 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by the Omrud
Post by SODAM
Post by Btms
Is something going happen to upset the engagement? Like him being posted?
Or doesn’t this happen?
I think he will do so well on his appraisal that he will get promoted to
sergeant....in the Met / Cumbria.
I agree that they're setting us up for his promotion, but it's much more
complicated these days. The Constable has to pass the Sergeant exams
and then continue to work as a Constable until they successfully apply
for an advertised Sergeant post, which could (by choice) be anywhere in
the country. You don't turn up expecting an appraisal and come out as a
Sergeant. Forces are more like separate businesses and they don't move
staff to other Forces.
Unless you were working with George Gently....
--
Toodle Pip
the Omrud
2018-05-10 09:32:56 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by the Omrud
Post by SODAM
Is something going happen to upset the engagement?  Like him being
posted?
  Or doesn’t this happen?
I think he will do so well on his appraisal that he will get promoted to
sergeant....in the Met / Cumbria.
I agree that they're setting us up for his promotion, but it's much more
complicated these days.  The Constable has to pass the Sergeant exams
and then continue to work as a Constable until they successfully apply
for an advertised Sergeant post, which could (by choice) be anywhere in
the country.  You don't turn up expecting an appraisal and come out as a
Sergeant.  Forces are more like separate businesses and they don't move
staff to other Forces.
Well, as it happened, the outcome of the appraisal was entirely realistic.
--
David
krw
2018-05-10 13:13:53 UTC
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Post by the Omrud
Well, as it happened, the outcome of the appraisal was entirely realistic.
He has not found who almost killed Matt (or the bunting) and seems more
worried about savings (I cannot think of any young couple with a first
mortgage [plus borrowings from the Parental Bank] actually conceiving
that an ISA is worth considering - all the money is already spoken for)
and cricket. Not believable.
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-05-10 16:09:17 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by krw
Post by the Omrud
Well, as it happened, the outcome of the appraisal was entirely realistic.
He has not found who almost killed Matt (or the bunting) and seems more
worried about savings (I cannot think of any young couple with a first
mortgage [plus borrowings from the Parental Bank] actually conceiving
that an ISA is worth considering - all the money is already spoken for)
and cricket. Not believable.
(Oh, the cricket is ... I've known people like that; compare the "life
and death" quote by some [football] manager.)

Yes, the personal savings interest allowance introduced a couple (?) of
years ago, combined with the appalling interest rates, have more or less
rendered ISAs as such pretty pointless, unless they happen to give a
competitive rate anyway (which my very brief look a couple of weeks ago
suggests they don't, they're about the same as non-ISAs). The only
reason for considering them (other than if you're SO rich you _do_ fill
the savings interest allowance) at the moment is their cumulative
effect, i. e. you anticipate rates rising such that people of more
moderate means might hit the allowance threshold. And, to me, it looks
as if the only chance of rates going up much is if inflation does (which
Brexit may well cause), in which case we'll all have other things to
worry about anyway.

Sorry, that was longer than I intended. Back to Harrison: I find it
believable, and in most ways commendable, that he _can_ isolate his work
from his personal life. Plus, I don't think the Mattsault is entirely
his brief: I had the feeling Higher Powers were interested. Though that
might be more Matt's dealings; I suppose the almost-running-down _was_
in his patch, so perhaps _is_ his to solve if he can. (OK on the bunting
not being solved either. I wonder if it ever will - maybe many years
down the line!)

The Mattsault itself: if we believe it _was_ Emma (and I think we do by
now), there's no implication either that she was drunk, or that it was
intentional (she didn't _like_ Matt, but then hardly anyone did); I
think it was just a genuine accident. (Possibly made more likely if _he_
_was_ drunk and perhaps wandering a bit more than normal.) No, I'm _not_
saying such an incident should be ignored in general (public service hat
on), and I suppose there is Ed's complicity in covering up (remedying
the car); however, in the overall scheme of things in TA, I think it's
best abandoned. The only possible outcome I see if more of it _does_
come to light is bad reflection on someone who's dead, and possible
action against Ed for doing something I suspect lots of us might have
done under the circumstances.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

War is God's way of teaching Americans geography. -Ambrose Bierce, writer
(1842-1914)
vk
2018-05-10 16:54:32 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by krw
Post by the Omrud
Well, as it happened, the outcome of the appraisal was entirely realistic.
He has not found who almost killed Matt (or the bunting) and seems
more worried about savings (I cannot think of any young couple with a
first mortgage [plus borrowings from the Parental Bank] actually
conceiving that an ISA is worth considering - all the money is already
spoken for) and cricket.  Not believable.
(Oh, the cricket is ... I've known people like that; compare the "life
and death" quote by some [football] manager.)
Bill Shankly. Some football manager!
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-05-10 17:52:33 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
[]
Post by vk
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
(Oh, the cricket is ... I've known people like that; compare the
"life and death" quote by some [football] manager.)
Bill Shankly. Some football manager!
Thanks. Not being much of a follower of football (though enjoying the
quote), I just remember that it's someone with a long history in the
game, but not Mat Busby. I'll forget again ... (-:
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

<This space unintentionally left blank>.
Vicky
2018-05-10 17:10:03 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, 10 May 2018 17:09:17 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by the Omrud
Well, as it happened, the outcome of the appraisal was entirely realistic.
Sorry, that was longer than I intended. Back to Harrison: I find it
believable, and in most ways commendable, that he _can_ isolate his work
from his personal life. Plus, I don't think the Mattsault is entirely
his brief: I had the feeling Higher Powers were interested. Though that
might be more Matt's dealings; I suppose the almost-running-down _was_
in his patch, so perhaps _is_ his to solve if he can. (OK on the bunting
not being solved either. I wonder if it ever will - maybe many years
down the line!)
The Mattsault itself: if we believe it _was_ Emma (and I think we do by
now), there's no implication either that she was drunk, or that it was
Huh????? Did you actually mean Emma?
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
intentional (she didn't _like_ Matt, but then hardly anyone did); I
think it was just a genuine accident. (Possibly made more likely if _he_
_was_ drunk and perhaps wandering a bit more than normal.) No, I'm _not_
saying such an incident should be ignored in general (public service hat
on), and I suppose there is Ed's complicity in covering up (remedying
the car); however, in the overall scheme of things in TA, I think it's
best abandoned. The only possible outcome I see if more of it _does_
come to light is bad reflection on someone who's dead, and possible
action against Ed for doing something I suspect lots of us might have
done under the circumstances.
Jpg, you are confused. It was Nic who had the car accident and Will
insisted on covering it up. And Emma is not dead.
--
Vicky
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-05-10 17:53:53 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Vicky
On Thu, 10 May 2018 17:09:17 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by the Omrud
Well, as it happened, the outcome of the appraisal was entirely realistic.
Sorry, that was longer than I intended. Back to Harrison: I find it
believable, and in most ways commendable, that he _can_ isolate his work
from his personal life. Plus, I don't think the Mattsault is entirely
his brief: I had the feeling Higher Powers were interested. Though that
might be more Matt's dealings; I suppose the almost-running-down _was_
in his patch, so perhaps _is_ his to solve if he can. (OK on the bunting
not being solved either. I wonder if it ever will - maybe many years
down the line!)
The Mattsault itself: if we believe it _was_ Emma (and I think we do by
now), there's no implication either that she was drunk, or that it was
Huh????? Did you actually mean Emma?
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
intentional (she didn't _like_ Matt, but then hardly anyone did); I
think it was just a genuine accident. (Possibly made more likely if _he_
_was_ drunk and perhaps wandering a bit more than normal.) No, I'm _not_
saying such an incident should be ignored in general (public service hat
on), and I suppose there is Ed's complicity in covering up (remedying
the car); however, in the overall scheme of things in TA, I think it's
best abandoned. The only possible outcome I see if more of it _does_
come to light is bad reflection on someone who's dead, and possible
action against Ed for doing something I suspect lots of us might have
done under the circumstances.
Jpg, you are confused. It was Nic who had the car accident and Will
insisted on covering it up. And Emma is not dead.
I do confuse those two (I should do so less now that one is dead). It
was Nic I meant.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

<This space unintentionally left blank>.
the Omrud
2018-05-11 09:15:44 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by krw
Post by the Omrud
Well, as it happened, the outcome of the appraisal was entirely realistic.
He has not found who almost killed Matt (or the bunting) and seems more
worried about savings (I cannot think of any young couple with a first
mortgage [plus borrowings from the Parental Bank] actually conceiving
that an ISA is worth considering - all the money is already spoken for)
and cricket.  Not believable.
Oh. I had no opinion on whether he deserved the good review. I was
merely commenting on the process.
--
David
Penny
2018-05-08 05:25:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Mon, 7 May 2018 18:57:19 -0000 (UTC), Btms <***@thetames.me.uk>
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Btms
Is something going happen to upset the engagement?
Just what I was thinking.
Hit on the head by a cricket ball at the single wicket?
Stabbed by a Borsetshire low-life?
Mown down by a distracted housewife?
Caught between Effer and Biriani when she finally learns what he's been
keeping from her?
Poisoned by cake?
Hit in the eye by a fatal flying flapjack?
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
BrritSki
2018-05-08 06:17:29 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Btms
Is something going happen to upset the engagement?
Just what I was thinking.
Hit on the head by a cricket ball at the single wicket?
Stabbed by a Borsetshire low-life?
Mown down by a distracted housewife?
Caught between Effer and Biriani when she finally learns what he's been
keeping from her?
Poisoned by cake?
Hit in the eye by a fatal flying flapjack?
A first entry for the 2018 Rubbishort Sonnet competition ?
Btms
2018-05-08 06:55:56 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by BrritSki
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Btms
Is something going happen to upset the engagement?
Just what I was thinking.
Hit on the head by a cricket ball at the single wicket?
Stabbed by a Borsetshire low-life?
Mown down by a distracted housewife?
Caught between Effer and Biriani when she finally learns what he's been
keeping from her?
Poisoned by cake?
Hit in the eye by a fatal flying flapjack?
A first entry for the 2018 Rubbishort Sonnet competition ?
My thoughts were less dramatic. More along lines those suggested by
SODAM.
--
BTMS - Equine Advisor Extraordinaire.
Vicky
2018-05-08 10:41:04 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Btms
Post by BrritSki
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Btms
Is something going happen to upset the engagement?
Just what I was thinking.
Hit on the head by a cricket ball at the single wicket?
Stabbed by a Borsetshire low-life?
Mown down by a distracted housewife?
Caught between Effer and Biriani when she finally learns what he's been
keeping from her?
Poisoned by cake?
Hit in the eye by a fatal flying flapjack?
A first entry for the 2018 Rubbishort Sonnet competition ?
My thoughts were less dramatic. More along lines those suggested by
SODAM.
I nuggering well hope they do not make this love end in unhappiness.
It is more or less the only nuggering positive story on TA.
--
Vicky
krw
2018-05-08 10:52:27 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Vicky
I nuggering well hope they do not make this love end in unhappiness.
It is more or less the only nuggering positive story on TA.
I don't think it will. I rather think the interim editor is simply
using the good news to fill space.
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
Serena Blanchflower
2018-05-08 12:50:08 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Vicky
Post by Btms
Post by BrritSki
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Btms
Is something going happen to upset the engagement?
Just what I was thinking.
Hit on the head by a cricket ball at the single wicket?
Stabbed by a Borsetshire low-life?
Mown down by a distracted housewife?
Caught between Effer and Biriani when she finally learns what he's been
keeping from her?
Poisoned by cake?
Hit in the eye by a fatal flying flapjack?
A first entry for the 2018 Rubbishort Sonnet competition ?
My thoughts were less dramatic. More along lines those suggested by
SODAM.
I nuggering well hope they do not make this love end in unhappiness.
It is more or less the only nuggering positive story on TA.
MTAAW
--
Best wishes, Serena
I am not in this world to live up to other people's expectations, nor do
l feel that the world must live up to mine (Fritz Perl)
Penny
2018-05-08 12:19:19 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Tue, 8 May 2018 08:17:29 +0200, BrritSki <***@gmail.com>
scrawled in the dust...
Post by BrritSki
Post by Penny
Just what I was thinking.
Hit on the head by a cricket ball at the single wicket?
Stabbed by a Borsetshire low-life?
Mown down by a distracted housewife?
Caught between Effer and Biriani when she finally learns what he's been
keeping from her?
Poisoned by cake?
Hit in the eye by a fatal flying flapjack?
A first entry for the 2018 Rubbishort Sonnet competition ?
Well it failed as a haiku and a limerick - too short for a sonnet innit?
Could be worked up as Cynghanedd perhaps...
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
BrritSki
2018-05-08 15:18:37 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by BrritSki
Post by Penny
Just what I was thinking.
Hit on the head by a cricket ball at the single wicket?
Stabbed by a Borsetshire low-life?
Mown down by a distracted housewife?
Caught between Effer and Biriani when she finally learns what he's been
keeping from her?
Poisoned by cake?
Hit in the eye by a fatal flying flapjack?
A first entry for the 2018 Rubbishort Sonnet competition ?
Well it failed as a haiku and a limerick - too short for a sonnet innit?
Yep, that's why I said RubbiSHORT Sonnet competition ;)
Mike
2018-05-08 15:51:40 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by BrritSki
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by BrritSki
Post by Penny
Just what I was thinking.
Hit on the head by a cricket ball at the single wicket?
Stabbed by a Borsetshire low-life?
Mown down by a distracted housewife?
Caught between Effer and Biriani when she finally learns what he's been
keeping from her?
Poisoned by cake?
Hit in the eye by a fatal flying flapjack?
A first entry for the 2018 Rubbishort Sonnet competition ?
Well it failed as a haiku and a limerick - too short for a sonnet innit?
Yep, that's why I said RubbiSHORT Sonnet competition ;)
It may or may not be a RubbiSHORT sonnet but that London hospital in City
Road has had enough of flapjack eye injuries now...
--
Toodle Pip
Sam Plusnet
2018-05-08 19:45:23 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Btms
Is something going happen to upset the engagement?
Just what I was thinking.
Hit on the head by a cricket ball at the single wicket?
Stabbed by a Borsetshire low-life?
Mown down by a distracted housewife?
Caught between Effer and Biriani when she finally learns what he's been
keeping from her?
Poisoned by cake?
Hit in the eye by a fatal flying flapjack?
Fatal Flying Flapjack?

Did they ever make a second album?
--
Sam Plusnet
Nick Odell
2018-05-08 21:30:53 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Btms
Is something going happen to upset the engagement?
Just what I was thinking.
Hit on the head by a cricket ball at the single wicket?
Stabbed by a Borsetshire low-life?
Mown down by a distracted housewife?
Caught between Effer and Biriani when she finally learns what he's been
keeping from her?
Poisoned by cake?
Hit in the eye by a fatal flying flapjack?
Fatal Flying Flapjack?
Did they ever make a second album?
I think they made it but nobody bought it.

Nick
BrritSki
2018-05-09 06:56:05 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Btms
Is something going happen to upset the engagement?
Just what I was thinking.
Hit on the head by a cricket ball at the single wicket?
Stabbed by a Borsetshire low-life?
Mown down by a distracted housewife?
Caught between Effer and Biriani when she finally learns what he's been
keeping from her?
Poisoned by cake?
Hit in the eye by a fatal flying flapjack?
Fatal Flying Flapjack?
Did they ever make a second album?
I think they made it but nobody bought it.
# All of a sudden
a bloody great pudden
came flying through the air.

Did she duck ?
Did she didn't,
It hit her fair and square

Now she's a cripple
With only only one nipple
To feed the baby on

Poor little f..ellow
with only one sucker,
To gnash his teeth upon

# to the music of Blaze Away

* I'm sure umrats can find the correct rhymes that have been removed
from a family newsgroup
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-05-09 01:32:19 UTC
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[]
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Penny
Hit in the eye by a fatal flying flapjack?
Fatal Flying Flapjack?
Did they ever make a second album?
I thought, that just about sounds believable, with the names of groups,
so I googled it (omitting the "Fatal").

There wasn't a pop group, but there _was_ the Vought XF5U-1:

There was also the V-173 Flying Pancake:

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"Oh, stick it up your nose." "Yes, which is precisely the sort of thing we need
to know, I mean, do people want fire that can be fitted nasally?" (s1, fit
six.)
Sid Nuncius
2018-05-09 05:39:02 UTC
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Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Btms
Is something going happen to upset the engagement?
Just what I was thinking.
Hit on the head by a cricket ball at the single wicket?
Stabbed by a Borsetshire low-life?
Mown down by a distracted housewife?
Caught between Effer and Biriani when she finally learns what he's been
keeping from her?
Poisoned by cake?
Hit in the eye by a fatal flying flapjack?
Fatal Flying Flapjack?
Did they ever make a second album?
No, but after they split, I think Andy Fatal and Jim Flapjack continued
to tour together for a while and Keith Flying made an unmemorable solo
album. Not one of the more successful "Supergroups".
--
Sid (Make sure Matron is away when you reply)
Sam Plusnet
2018-05-09 19:52:12 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Btms
Is something going happen to upset the engagement?
Just what I was thinking.
Hit on the head by a cricket ball at the single wicket?
Stabbed by a Borsetshire low-life?
Mown down by a distracted housewife?
Caught between Effer and Biriani when she finally learns what he's been
keeping from her?
Poisoned by cake?
Hit in the eye by a fatal flying flapjack?
Fatal Flying Flapjack?
Did they ever make a second album?
No, but after they split, I think Andy Fatal and Jim Flapjack continued
to tour together for a while and Keith Flying made an unmemorable solo
album.  Not one of the more successful "Supergroups".
I had wondered if Chinese White Bedsock had morphed into Fatal Flying
Flapjack - but it seems I'm wrong about that.
--
Sam Plusnet
Penny
2018-05-09 23:54:45 UTC
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Raw Message
On Wed, 9 May 2018 20:52:12 +0100, Sam Plusnet <***@home.com> scrawled in
the dust...
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by Sam Plusnet
Fatal Flying Flapjack?
Did they ever make a second album?
No, but after they split, I think Andy Fatal and Jim Flapjack continued
to tour together for a while and Keith Flying made an unmemorable solo
album.  Not one of the more successful "Supergroups".
I had wondered if Chinese White Bedsock had morphed into Fatal Flying
Flapjack - but it seems I'm wrong about that.
Chinese White Bedsock rings a faint bell but google only wants to know if
I'd like cashmere or cotton. I did find and album by the Indian Head Band
once - not sure if they ever made another.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
steveski
2018-05-10 00:26:30 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Penny
in the dust...
[]
Post by Penny
Post by Sam Plusnet
I had wondered if Chinese White Bedsock had morphed into Fatal Flying
Flapjack - but it seems I'm wrong about that.
Chinese White Bedsock rings a faint bell but google only wants to know
if I'd like cashmere or cotton. I did find and album by the Indian Head
Band once - not sure if they ever made another.
Tonto's Expanding Headband?
--
Steveski
Penny
2018-05-11 09:24:04 UTC
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Raw Message
On 10 May 2018 00:26:30 GMT, steveski <***@invalid.com> scrawled in
the dust...
Post by steveski
Post by Penny
in the dust...
[]
Post by Penny
Post by Sam Plusnet
I had wondered if Chinese White Bedsock had morphed into Fatal Flying
Flapjack - but it seems I'm wrong about that.
Chinese White Bedsock rings a faint bell but google only wants to know
if I'd like cashmere or cotton. I did find and album by the Indian Head
Band once - not sure if they ever made another.
Tonto's Expanding Headband?
That was it (but in 4 words) thanks, the artwork looks familiar
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonto's_Expanding_Head_Band
I see they did make a second album but I never actually heard the first*,
just spotted it in a friend's collection.

*until today
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Sam Plusnet
2018-05-10 00:48:24 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Penny
the dust...
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by Sam Plusnet
Fatal Flying Flapjack?
Did they ever make a second album?
No, but after they split, I think Andy Fatal and Jim Flapjack continued
to tour together for a while and Keith Flying made an unmemorable solo
album.  Not one of the more successful "Supergroups".
I had wondered if Chinese White Bedsock had morphed into Fatal Flying
Flapjack - but it seems I'm wrong about that.
Chinese White Bedsock rings a faint bell but google only wants to know if
I'd like cashmere or cotton. I did find and album by the Indian Head Band
once - not sure if they ever made another.
The band name featured at some point in time in TA.
I can't remember when or anything about it/them.
I'm pretty sure it all happened outside the range of the hidden mics.
Perhaps it was Lizzy's favourite band in the days of gorilla-suits and
ice-cream vans?
--
Sam Plusnet
BrritSki
2018-05-10 07:08:18 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Penny
Chinese White Bedsock rings a faint bell but google only wants to know if
I'd like cashmere or cotton. I did find and album by the Indian Head Band
once - not sure if they ever made another.
Is Indian head different from other sorts and is snake charming involved ?

EMNTK
John Ashby
2018-05-10 08:30:46 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by BrritSki
Post by Penny
Chinese White Bedsock rings a faint bell but google only wants to know if
I'd like cashmere or cotton. I did find and album by the Indian Head Band
once - not sure if they ever made another.
Is Indian head different from other sorts and is snake charming involved ?
EMNTK
ITYM FNNTK

john
BrritSki
2018-05-10 10:16:14 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by John Ashby
Post by BrritSki
Post by Penny
Chinese White Bedsock rings a faint bell but google only wants to know if
I'd like cashmere or cotton. I did find and album by the Indian Head Band
once - not sure if they ever made another.
Is Indian head different from other sorts and is snake charming involved ?
EMNTK
ITYM FNNTK
FNNTK ? fMntk shirley ?
John Ashby
2018-05-10 18:29:37 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by John Ashby
Post by BrritSki
Post by Penny
Chinese White Bedsock rings a faint bell but google only wants to know if
I'd like cashmere or cotton. I did find and album by the Indian Head Band
once - not sure if they ever made another.
Is Indian head different from other sorts and is snake charming involved ?
EMNTK
ITYM FNNTK
FNNTK ?  fMntk shirley ?
Curse that early morning stiffness.

In the fingers, the fingers.

Some people!

john
BrritSki
2018-05-10 19:08:48 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by John Ashby
Post by John Ashby
Post by BrritSki
Post by Penny
Chinese White Bedsock rings a faint bell but google only wants to know if
I'd like cashmere or cotton. I did find and album by the Indian Head Band
once - not sure if they ever made another.
Is Indian head different from other sorts and is snake charming involved ?
EMNTK
ITYM FNNTK
FNNTK ?  fMntk shirley ?
Curse that early morning stiffness.
In the fingers, the fingers.
Some people!
:)
Steve Hague
2018-05-11 10:20:23 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Penny
the dust...
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by Sam Plusnet
Fatal Flying Flapjack?
Did they ever make a second album?
No, but after they split, I think Andy Fatal and Jim Flapjack continued
to tour together for a while and Keith Flying made an unmemorable solo
album.  Not one of the more successful "Supergroups".
I had wondered if Chinese White Bedsock had morphed into Fatal Flying
Flapjack - but it seems I'm wrong about that.
Chinese White Bedsock rings a faint bell but google only wants to know if
I'd like cashmere or cotton. I did find and album by the Indian Head Band
once - not sure if they ever made another.
Chinese White was a track on 5000 Spirits or the Layers of the Onion,
recorded 1n 1966 by The Incredible String Band. Jus' sayin'.
Penny
2018-05-11 12:27:17 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Fri, 11 May 2018 11:20:23 +0100, Steve Hague <***@gmail.com>
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Steve Hague
Post by Penny
the dust...
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by Sam Plusnet
Fatal Flying Flapjack?
Did they ever make a second album?
No, but after they split, I think Andy Fatal and Jim Flapjack continued
to tour together for a while and Keith Flying made an unmemorable solo
album.  Not one of the more successful "Supergroups".
I had wondered if Chinese White Bedsock had morphed into Fatal Flying
Flapjack - but it seems I'm wrong about that.
Chinese White Bedsock rings a faint bell but google only wants to know if
I'd like cashmere or cotton. I did find and album by the Indian Head Band
once - not sure if they ever made another.
Chinese White was a track on 5000 Spirits or the Layers of the Onion,
recorded 1n 1966 by The Incredible String Band. Jus' sayin'.
Ah, of course, I really should digitise that album
Climbing up these figures the sun is tugging at my shoulder
And every step I take I think, my feet are getting older

Chinese White is also a paint colour.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Vicky
2018-05-11 12:38:30 UTC
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Raw Message
On Fri, 11 May 2018 11:20:23 +0100, Steve Hague
Post by Steve Hague
Post by Penny
Post by Sam Plusnet
I had wondered if Chinese White Bedsock had morphed into Fatal Flying
Flapjack - but it seems I'm wrong about that.
Chinese White Bedsock rings a faint bell but google only wants to know if
I'd like cashmere or cotton. I did find and album by the Indian Head Band
once - not sure if they ever made another.
Chinese White was a track on 5000 Spirits or the Layers of the Onion,
recorded 1n 1966 by The Incredible String Band. Jus' sayin'.
China White was a nightclub in Soho where I organised an English class
for some of the employees. We sent in a teacher of English as a Second
Language. When we were looking for a place to have our department
Christmas party that year the teacher, who was much appreciated by the
management and learners, got them to let us use the venue! It's a
long time ago but I have a feeling they did the food free for us.
--
Vicky
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