OT: A new chapter...

[BrritSki]

I hinted a few weeks ago that I was expecting things to happen that
would be keeping me busier than normal this year.

Well I think I can now let you all know that BrritSgrrl has accepted a
job as a teacher in Bedford at the junior school that she and BrratSki
went to 30 years ago and where his two oldest now go. She starts in
September. SoL is also keen to go as soon as possible as he has long
wanted to expand his horizons and AGCs are very excited about spending
more time with their cousins.

So with all our immediate family back there we are planning to spend a
lot more time in the UK too and have put our house on the market:
<https://www.gate-away.com/property_detail.php?id=354235>

We're sad in many ways to be leaving, but the land is getting a bit too
much now even for the waife. We'll also save a LOT of money in tax. If
we sell quickly for a decent price we will almost certainly re-invest in
a small apartment for the summer months here, but we'll see...

So if you know of anyone wanting to live La Dolce Vita, let us know...

[Serena Blanchflower]

Post by BrritSki
I hinted a few weeks ago that I was expecting things to happen that
would be keeping me busier than normal this year.
Well I think I can now let you all know that BrritSgrrl has accepted a
job as a teacher in Bedford at the junior school that she and BrratSki
went to 30 years ago and where his two oldest now go. She starts in
September. SoL is also keen to go as soon as possible as he has long
wanted to expand his horizons and AGCs are very excited about spending
more time with their cousins.
So with all our immediate family back there we are planning to spend a
<https://www.gate-away.com/property_detail.php?id=354235>
We're sad in many ways to be leaving, but the land is getting a bit too
much now even for the waife. We'll also save a LOT of money in tax.  If
we sell quickly for a decent price we will almost certainly re-invest in
a small apartment for the summer months here, but we'll see...
So if you know of anyone wanting to live La Dolce Vita, let us know...

Good luck to you and your assorted family with the move. I hope it
works well for you all.

[Kate B]

Post by BrritSki
I hinted a few weeks ago that I was expecting things to happen that
would be keeping me busier than normal this year.
Well I think I can now let you all know that BrritSgrrl has accepted a
job as a teacher in Bedford at the junior school that she and BrratSki
went to 30 years ago and where his two oldest now go. She starts in
September. SoL is also keen to go as soon as possible as he has long
wanted to expand his horizons and AGCs are very excited about spending
more time with their cousins.
So with all our immediate family back there we are planning to spend a
<https://www.gate-away.com/property_detail.php?id=354235>
We're sad in many ways to be leaving, but the land is getting a bit
too much now even for the waife. We'll also save a LOT of money in
tax.  If we sell quickly for a decent price we will almost certainly
re-invest in a small apartment for the summer months here, but we'll
see...
So if you know of anyone wanting to live La Dolce Vita, let us know...

Good luck to you and your assorted family with the move.  I  hope it
works well for you all.

Best of (dare I say European?) luck all round from me too. But where
will you get your olive oil from? Who will prop and pep up the ensemble
in the community dramatics? But it's a very good idea. Fambly is fambly
and I am all for staying within reach.

[BrritSki]

Post by Kate B
Best of (dare I say European?) luck all round from me too. But where
will you get your olive oil from? Who will prop and pep up the ensemble
in the community dramatics? But it's a very good idea. Fambly is fambly
and I am all for staying within reach.

Thanks to you and Serena.

We'll still maintain contacts here thru SoL's family so will have access
to good oil at reasonable prices. I might even be able to bring some
back for other friends if they want !

As for the AmDram I hope to continue that and also look for extra work
possibly. But first there's a dress rehearsal tonight and 6-8
performances tomorrow for the delayed San Benedetto play with my
grand-daughter also appearing on her 6th birthday. Not her 1st
performance, she was Cobweb in MSND 2 years ago !

[Chris McMillan]

Post by BrritSki

Post by Kate B
Best of (dare I say European?) luck all round from me too. But where
will you get your olive oil from? Who will prop and pep up the ensemble
in the community dramatics? But it's a very good idea. Fambly is fambly
and I am all for staying within reach.

Thanks to you and Serena.
We'll still maintain contacts here thru SoL's family so will have access
to good oil at reasonable prices. I might even be able to bring some
back for other friends if they want !
As for the AmDram I hope to continue that and also look for extra work
possibly. But first there's a dress rehearsal tonight and 6-8
performances tomorrow for the delayed San Benedetto play with my
grand-daughter also appearing on her 6th birthday. Not her 1st
performance, she was Cobweb in MSND 2 years ago !

Wow! She could go far!

Sincerely Chris

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <***@mid.individual.net>, Kate B
<***@nospam.demon.co.uk> writes:
[]

Post by Kate B
Best of (dare I say European?) luck all round from me too. But where

And me.

Post by Kate B
will you get your olive oil from? Who will prop and pep up the ensemble

Rapeseed oil is available in the same sorts of range of varieties: I
have a bottle of "extra virgin cold pressed" (whatever that means), for
example. [Not that I can say I can tell, but I have the palatic (?)
equivalent of "cloth ears".]

Post by Kate B
in the community dramatics? But it's a very good idea. Fambly is fambly
and I am all for staying within reach.

Besides, things might get awkward for expatriate Brits soon, at least
for a short period (few years), I fear. Since you said you were hoping
to still keep a foothold there, I hope I'm wrong about that.

[Btms]

Post by Kate B

Post by BrritSki
I hinted a few weeks ago that I was expecting things to happen that
would be keeping me busier than normal this year.
Well I think I can now let you all know that BrritSgrrl has accepted a
job as a teacher in Bedford at the junior school that she and BrratSki
went to 30 years ago and where his two oldest now go. She starts in
September. SoL is also keen to go as soon as possible as he has long
wanted to expand his horizons and AGCs are very excited about spending
more time with their cousins.
So with all our immediate family back there we are planning to spend a
<https://www.gate-away.com/property_detail.php?id=354235>
We're sad in many ways to be leaving, but the land is getting a bit
too much now even for the waife. We'll also save a LOT of money in
tax.  If we sell quickly for a decent price we will almost certainly
re-invest in a small apartment for the summer months here, but we'll
see...
So if you know of anyone wanting to live La Dolce Vita, let us know...

Good luck to you and your assorted family with the move.  I  hope it
works well for you all.

Best of (dare I say European?) luck all round from me too. But where
will you get your olive oil from? Who will prop and pep up the ensemble
in the community dramatics? But it's a very good idea. Fambly is fambly
and I am all for staying within reach.

Wot she sed.

[Chris McMillan]

Post by Serena Blanchflower

Post by BrritSki
I hinted a few weeks ago that I was expecting things to happen that
would be keeping me busier than normal this year.
Well I think I can now let you all know that BrritSgrrl has accepted a
job as a teacher in Bedford at the junior school that she and BrratSki
went to 30 years ago and where his two oldest now go. She starts in
September. SoL is also keen to go as soon as possible as he has long
wanted to expand his horizons and AGCs are very excited about spending
more time with their cousins.
So with all our immediate family back there we are planning to spend a
<https://www.gate-away.com/property_detail.php?id=354235>
We're sad in many ways to be leaving, but the land is getting a bit too
much now even for the waife. We'll also save a LOT of money in tax.  If
we sell quickly for a decent price we will almost certainly re-invest in
a small apartment for the summer months here, but we'll see...
So if you know of anyone wanting to live La Dolce Vita, let us know...

Good luck to you and your assorted family with the move. I hope it
works well for you all.

Wow! Definitely a change.

Sincerely Chris

[LFS]

Post by BrritSki
I hinted a few weeks ago that I was expecting things to happen that
would be keeping me busier than normal this year.
Well I think I can now let you all know that BrritSgrrl has accepted a
job as a teacher in Bedford at the junior school that she and BrratSki
went to 30 years ago and where his two oldest now go. She starts in
September. SoL is also keen to go as soon as possible as he has long
wanted to expand his horizons and AGCs are very excited about spending
more time with their cousins.
So with all our immediate family back there we are planning to spend a
<https://www.gate-away.com/property_detail.php?id=354235>
We're sad in many ways to be leaving, but the land is getting a bit too
much now even for the waife. We'll also save a LOT of money in tax.  If
we sell quickly for a decent price we will almost certainly re-invest in
a small apartment for the summer months here, but we'll see...
So if you know of anyone wanting to live La Dolce Vita, let us know...

Well, you'll be relieving me of much envy :)

Lots of luck with the move, hope it all goes without too many hitches.

[Sid Nuncius]

Post by BrritSki
I hinted a few weeks ago that I was expecting things to happen that
would be keeping me busier than normal this year.

<snip>

Post by BrritSki
So with all our immediate family back there we are planning to spend a
<https://www.gate-away.com/property_detail.php?id=354235>

<wistful sigh>

Best of luck with it all, MOPMOB!

[vk]

Post by BrritSki
I hinted a few weeks ago that I was expecting things to happen that
would be keeping me busier than normal this year.
Well I think I can now let you all know that BrritSgrrl has accepted a
job as a teacher in Bedford at the junior school that she and BrratSki
went to 30 years ago and where his two oldest now go. She starts in
September. SoL is also keen to go as soon as possible as he has long
wanted to expand his horizons and AGCs are very excited about spending
more time with their cousins.
So with all our immediate family back there we are planning to spend a
<https://www.gate-away.com/property_detail.php?id=354235>

Nice gaff!
Good luck Brritters.

[Nick Odell]

Post by BrritSki
I hinted a few weeks ago that I was expecting things to happen that
would be keeping me busier than normal this year.
Well I think I can now let you all know that BrritSgrrl has accepted a
job as a teacher in Bedford at the junior school that she and BrratSki
went to 30 years ago and where his two oldest now go. She starts in
September. SoL is also keen to go as soon as possible as he has long
wanted to expand his horizons and AGCs are very excited about spending
more time with their cousins.
So with all our immediate family back there we are planning to spend a
<https://www.gate-away.com/property_detail.php?id=354235>
We're sad in many ways to be leaving, but the land is getting a bit too
much now even for the waife. We'll also save a LOT of money in tax.  If
we sell quickly for a decent price we will almost certainly re-invest in
a small apartment for the summer months here, but we'll see...
So if you know of anyone wanting to live La Dolce Vita, let us know...

As one new chapterist to another (we've just returned home after the
wedding of Liliana's elder daughter) heartfelt wishes to you and your
family for now and the future. I always feel that there are certain
"node" points in life where everything comes together and one knows it's
the right time to change in a particular direction. This seems to be one
of those times.

All the best,

Nick

[Chris McMillan]

Post by Nick Odell

Post by BrritSki
I hinted a few weeks ago that I was expecting things to happen that
would be keeping me busier than normal this year.
Well I think I can now let you all know that BrritSgrrl has accepted a
job as a teacher in Bedford at the junior school that she and BrratSki
went to 30 years ago and where his two oldest now go. She starts in
September. SoL is also keen to go as soon as possible as he has long
wanted to expand his horizons and AGCs are very excited about spending
more time with their cousins.
So with all our immediate family back there we are planning to spend a
<https://www.gate-away.com/property_detail.php?id=354235>
We're sad in many ways to be leaving, but the land is getting a bit too
much now even for the waife. We'll also save a LOT of money in tax.  If
we sell quickly for a decent price we will almost certainly re-invest in
a small apartment for the summer months here, but we'll see...
So if you know of anyone wanting to live La Dolce Vita, let us know...

As one new chapterist to another (we've just returned home after the
wedding of Liliana's elder daughter) heartfelt wishes to you and your
family for now and the future. I always feel that there are certain
"node" points in life where everything comes together and one knows it's
the right time to change in a particular direction. This seems to be one
of those times.
All the best,
Nick

Hope the nuptials went well Liliana.

Sincerely Chris

[Nick Odell]

Post by Chris McMillan

Post by Nick Odell

Post by BrritSki
I hinted a few weeks ago that I was expecting things to happen that
would be keeping me busier than normal this year.
Well I think I can now let you all know that BrritSgrrl has accepted a
job as a teacher in Bedford at the junior school that she and BrratSki
went to 30 years ago and where his two oldest now go. She starts in
September. SoL is also keen to go as soon as possible as he has long
wanted to expand his horizons and AGCs are very excited about spending
more time with their cousins.
So with all our immediate family back there we are planning to spend a
<https://www.gate-away.com/property_detail.php?id=354235>
We're sad in many ways to be leaving, but the land is getting a bit too
much now even for the waife. We'll also save a LOT of money in tax.  If
we sell quickly for a decent price we will almost certainly re-invest in
a small apartment for the summer months here, but we'll see...
So if you know of anyone wanting to live La Dolce Vita, let us know...

As one new chapterist to another (we've just returned home after the
wedding of Liliana's elder daughter) heartfelt wishes to you and your
family for now and the future. I always feel that there are certain
"node" points in life where everything comes together and one knows it's
the right time to change in a particular direction. This seems to be one
of those times.
All the best,
Nick

Hope the nuptials went well Liliana.

It was a wonderful day, thank you, Chris. The weather forecast for the
day had stayed doggedly at thunderstorms and torrential rain for the
previous week and on Saturday morning itself they even estimated the
rainfall at several centimetres but we didn't see a drop of it.

Rained last night though, which was lovely.

Nick

[Chris McMillan]

Post by Nick Odell

Post by Chris McMillan

Post by Nick Odell

Post by BrritSki
I hinted a few weeks ago that I was expecting things to happen that
would be keeping me busier than normal this year.
Well I think I can now let you all know that BrritSgrrl has accepted a
job as a teacher in Bedford at the junior school that she and BrratSki
went to 30 years ago and where his two oldest now go. She starts in
September. SoL is also keen to go as soon as possible as he has long
wanted to expand his horizons and AGCs are very excited about spending
more time with their cousins.
So with all our immediate family back there we are planning to spend a
<https://www.gate-away.com/property_detail.php?id=354235>
We're sad in many ways to be leaving, but the land is getting a bit too
much now even for the waife. We'll also save a LOT of money in tax.  If
we sell quickly for a decent price we will almost certainly re-invest in
a small apartment for the summer months here, but we'll see...
So if you know of anyone wanting to live La Dolce Vita, let us know...

As one new chapterist to another (we've just returned home after the
wedding of Liliana's elder daughter) heartfelt wishes to you and your
family for now and the future. I always feel that there are certain
"node" points in life where everything comes together and one knows it's
the right time to change in a particular direction. This seems to be one
of those times.
All the best,
Nick

Hope the nuptials went well Liliana.

It was a wonderful day, thank you, Chris. The weather forecast for the
day had stayed doggedly at thunderstorms and torrential rain for the
previous week and on Saturday morning itself they even estimated the
rainfall at several centimetres but we didn't see a drop of it.
Rained last night though, which was lovely.
Nick

:)

Sincerely Chris

[SODAM]

Post by BrritSki
I hinted a few weeks ago that I was expecting things to happen that
would be keeping me busier than normal this year.
Well I think I can now let you all know that BrritSgrrl has accepted a
job as a teacher in Bedford at the junior school that she and BrratSki
went to 30 years ago and where his two oldest now go. She starts in
September. SoL is also keen to go as soon as possible as he has long
wanted to expand his horizons and AGCs are very excited about spending
more time with their cousins.
So with all our immediate family back there we are planning to spend a
<https://www.gate-away.com/property_detail.php?id=354235>
We're sad in many ways to be leaving, but the land is getting a bit too
much now even for the waife. We'll also save a LOT of money in tax. If
we sell quickly for a decent price we will almost certainly re-invest in
a small apartment for the summer months here, but we'll see...
So if you know of anyone wanting to live La Dolce Vita, let us know...

What a beautiful house Britters, old boy! It would be easy to envy it, if
one were covetous. All that plus sunshine and friendly natives. I imagine
it would be a wrench to leave the life you have made there if it wasn’t for
reuniting your family.

I hope you don’t find the uk too changed when you return. It seems to me
that generally people have become more judgmental and critical. Students
wanting to pull down statues and erase history is a symptom of this. We are
ever more thin-skinned and need warnings before a programme if it contains
violence, sex, swearing or “upsetting” content. One can even phone a
helpline if a programme proves too much to bear. What happened to the
stiff upper lip and free speech? Is it alive and well only on umra?

I partially blame social media, with which I have no truck.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message
<580304183.543063897.634975.kemp_m-***@news.eternal-september.or
g>, SODAM <***@talktalk.net> writes:
[]

Post by SODAM
helpline if a programme proves too much to bear. What happened to the
stiff upper lip and free speech? Is it alive and well only on umra?
I partially blame social media, with which I have no truck.

I think the stiff upper lip was finally laid to rest as a myth at the
time of the Diana funeral, which was well before social media. (I too do
not _use_ "social media" as it is normally portrayed, i. e. involving
the use of fobile moans, but I do _not_ despise those who do as many of
us non-users seem to; and of course I do use newsgroups including UMRA,
which I would argue are very much a wider part of social media.)

[SODAM]

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
In message
[]

Post by SODAM
helpline if a programme proves too much to bear. What happened to the
stiff upper lip and free speech? Is it alive and well only on umra?
I partially blame social media, with which I have no truck.

I think the stiff upper lip was finally laid to rest as a myth at the
time of the Diana funeral, which was well before social media. (I too do
not _use_ "social media" as it is normally portrayed, i. e. involving
the use of fobile moans, but I do _not_ despise those who do as many of
us non-users seem to; and of course I do use newsgroups including UMRA,
which I would argue are very much a wider part of social media.)

I don’t think non-use of social media implies contempt of users. It’s seems
strange to me that people want to live their life under a spotlight and
share every detail of it with the world. Putting up photos and revealing
all manner of things about themselves and their families makes me wonder
about personal security. It’s also funny that some think they have three
thousand friends because of it. However, chacun à son goût.

Umra is a real social group besides a virtual one - think of all those
wonderful bbqs, courtesy of the McToodles, and other meetings besides that
may not be shared.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message

Post by SODAM

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
In message

[]

Post by SODAM

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by SODAM
I partially blame social media, with which I have no truck.

I think the stiff upper lip was finally laid to rest as a myth at the
time of the Diana funeral, which was well before social media. (I too do
not _use_ "social media" as it is normally portrayed, i. e. involving
the use of fobile moans, but I do _not_ despise those who do as many of
us non-users seem to; and of course I do use newsgroups including UMRA,
which I would argue are very much a wider part of social media.)

I don’t think non-use of social media implies contempt of users. It’s seems

I didn't say it did; I only inserted that because it is often _assumed_
that those of us who do not use such things _do_ despise those who do.

Post by SODAM
strange to me that people want to live their life under a spotlight and
share every detail of it with the world. Putting up photos and revealing
all manner of things about themselves and their families makes me wonder
about personal security. It’s also funny that some think they have three
thousand friends because of it. However, chacun à son goût.

Yes, that's my view too - if people want to do that, then as long as it
doesn't frighten the horses, each to his gout indeed.

Post by SODAM
Umra is a real social group besides a virtual one - think of all those
wonderful bbqs, courtesy of the McToodles, and other meetings besides that
may not be shared.

Definitely! (But you try to tell that to _some_ of the people who have
the narrow definition of "social media" used by the media, and - once
they've got past the "you're a fuddy-duddy" step, if they ever do - they
will disagree with you, sometimes quite vehemently.)

[Vicky]

On Sun, 18 Mar 2018 16:58:53 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
In message

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
In message

[]

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by SODAM
I partially blame social media, with which I have no truck.

I think the stiff upper lip was finally laid to rest as a myth at the
time of the Diana funeral, which was well before social media. (I too do
not _use_ "social media" as it is normally portrayed, i. e. involving
the use of fobile moans, but I do _not_ despise those who do as many of
us non-users seem to; and of course I do use newsgroups including UMRA,
which I would argue are very much a wider part of social media.)

I don’t think non-use of social media implies contempt of users. It’s seems

I didn't say it did; I only inserted that because it is often _assumed_
that those of us who do not use such things _do_ despise those who do.

strange to me that people want to live their life under a spotlight and
share every detail of it with the world. Putting up photos and revealing
all manner of things about themselves and their families makes me wonder
about personal security. It’s also funny that some think they have three
thousand friends because of it. However, chacun à son goût.

Yes, that's my view too - if people want to do that, then as long as it
doesn't frighten the horses, each to his gout indeed.

Umra is a real social group besides a virtual one - think of all those
wonderful bbqs, courtesy of the McToodles, and other meetings besides that
may not be shared.

Definitely! (But you try to tell that to _some_ of the people who have
the narrow definition of "social media" used by the media, and - once
they've got past the "you're a fuddy-duddy" step, if they ever do - they
will disagree with you, sometimes quite vehemently.)

There was a book written by Indra SInha, The Cybergypsies. They've
been moving from camp to camp since Prestel and each camp is a group
of friends, some of whom meet for real and socialise in various
places. Not all move together each time, Prestel, IRC, muds,hosted
bulletin boards, usenet groups (umra and others) facebook, twitter,
live journal, dead journal and so on :). There are groups round
disability help sites too and ones for people with long-term illness.
They compare notes and are a place to get help, advice and sympathy.

The groups change and new people arrive, as others drift away, just
like in life. There are new ways now with aps on phones that groups
gather on, ante-natal and post-natal groups, mumsnet, what's ap.
Things keep changing and the old ones mutter that the new ones are not
as good and the new ones think the older users of the previous ones
are out-of-touch :).

People are nicer or nastier, some support each other and really help
and some feel they can attack and try to injure, protected by the
feeling it is remote and they are hidden. That's been the same more
or less since the first people on Prestel chatlines were unpleasant
and others met in pubs to socialise in person.

[Chris J Dixon]

I don’t think non-use of social media implies contempt of users. It’s seems
strange to me that people want to live their life under a spotlight and
share every detail of it with the world. Putting up photos and revealing
all manner of things about themselves and their families makes me wonder
about personal security. It’s also funny that some think they have three
thousand friends because of it. However, chacun à son goût.

Like all things, it can be approached in different ways.
Practically all my Facebook activity is from my desktop, (1) and
I post quite infrequently. Reading posts from friends and
relations of various kinds allows me to feel connected to people
that I only ever actually meet occasionally these days, if at
all.

My security is set reasonably tight, and I have no particular
concerns there. I wouldn't say that I have been significantly
more revealing there than on Usenet. In neither place would I
mention a forthcoming absence from home, for instance.

(1) Although I have a handed-down smartphone (2), it is PAYG, and
about the only time I use data is to synchronise my Fitbit if I
am away from home for more than 5 days. As a phone I hate it.

(2) Samsung S5 - quite a nice piece of kit, but I don't really
have a need for what it can do. I have a tablet and a desktop for
that.

[BrritSki]

Post by Chris J Dixon

Post by SODAM
I don’t think non-use of social media implies contempt of users. It’s seems
strange to me that people want to live their life under a spotlight and
share every detail of it with the world. Putting up photos and revealing
all manner of things about themselves and their families makes me wonder
about personal security. It’s also funny that some think they have three
thousand friends because of it. However, chacun à son goût.

Like all things, it can be approached in different ways.
Practically all my Facebook activity is from my desktop, (1) and
I post quite infrequently. Reading posts from friends and
relations of various kinds allows me to feel connected to people
that I only ever actually meet occasionally these days, if at
all.
My security is set reasonably tight, and I have no particular
concerns there. I wouldn't say that I have been significantly
more revealing there than on Usenet. In neither place would I
mention a forthcoming absence from home, for instance.

<languid wave> I was reading this morning about FB and Cambridge
Analytics misuse of user data and wondered how people can be so stupid.
Even if they have a profile of me, it's no boodly use to them as I never
see adverts on FB or elsewhere when I'm browsing :)

Post by Chris J Dixon
As a phone I hate it.
(2) Samsung S5 - quite a nice piece of kit,

I have a dual-sim version of it and really like it, both as a phone and
occasional use for internet access when out and about, including
listening to R4 in the car in France and Italy !

[Vicky]

Post by Chris J Dixon

I don’t think non-use of social media implies contempt of users. It’s seems
strange to me that people want to live their life under a spotlight and
share every detail of it with the world. Putting up photos and revealing
all manner of things about themselves and their families makes me wonder
about personal security. It’s also funny that some think they have three
thousand friends because of it. However, chacun à son goût.

Like all things, it can be approached in different ways.
Practically all my Facebook activity is from my desktop, (1) and
I post quite infrequently. Reading posts from friends and
relations of various kinds allows me to feel connected to people
that I only ever actually meet occasionally these days, if at
all.
My security is set reasonably tight, and I have no particular
concerns there. I wouldn't say that I have been significantly
more revealing there than on Usenet. In neither place would I
mention a forthcoming absence from home, for instance.
(1) Although I have a handed-down smartphone (2), it is PAYG, and
about the only time I use data is to synchronise my Fitbit if I
am away from home for more than 5 days. As a phone I hate it.

YANAOU. I too use a desktop, have a smart phone but never use data as
have a tablet and desktop, don't advertise being away, and we never
are. I also keep up with lots of people I can't get to see now in
person.

Post by Chris J Dixon
(2) Samsung S5 - quite a nice piece of kit, but I don't really
have a need for what it can do. I have a tablet and a desktop for
that.

[Serena Blanchflower]

Post by SODAM
I don’t think non-use of social media implies contempt of users. It’s seems
strange to me that people want to live their life under a spotlight and
share every detail of it with the world. Putting up photos and revealing
all manner of things about themselves and their families makes me wonder
about personal security. It’s also funny that some think they have three
thousand friends because of it. However, chacun à son goût.

There's no rule which says that people who use social media have to
share every detail of their life with it, or to live under a spotlight
and most of us don't.

I use Facebook quite a lot and have quite a wide range of contacts[1]
there, ranging from close friends and family to acquaintances, via quite
a few long lost friends, who I'm happy to be back in touch with. I keep
my security settings at a sensible level and don't share intimate
details of my life with all and sundry. The same is true of the vast
majority of the people I chat to there.

None of them have anything close to three thousand friends/contacts on
there.

Post by SODAM
Umra is a real social group besides a virtual one - think of all those
wonderful bbqs, courtesy of the McToodles, and other meetings besides that
may not be shared.

The umrats I know best, and who I consider to be friends (in the real
sense) are ones I've got to know better through FB, where we discuss a
much wider range of topics than are on topic on umra. Some of those
have been kind enough to come to visit me, so it's lead to real life
meetings, as well.


[1] Yes, I know FB chooses to call all your contacts "Friends" but I
think the vast majority of users do understand the difference between
real friends and FB friends.

[Fenny]

On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 15:04:40 +0000, Serena Blanchflower

Post by Serena Blanchflower
I use Facebook quite a lot and have quite a wide range of contacts[1]
there, ranging from close friends and family to acquaintances, via quite
a few long lost friends, who I'm happy to be back in touch with. I keep
my security settings at a sensible level and don't share intimate
details of my life with all and sundry. The same is true of the vast
majority of the people I chat to there.

My issue with FB is that I *only* want to see posts from people I know
and don't want people I don't know to see my posts. But FB doesn't
seem to have any settings that mean I don't see stuff I don't know but
are friends of friends post. Which means I don't know who sees the
stuff I post if a friend of mine comments on it.

I really don't want to see adverts, posts "I might like", sponsored
posts etc. Just because I know someone who lives in Minnesota doesn't
mean I need to be friends with anyone else in Minnesota, or see posts
from companies in Minnesota.

So I very rarely post anything outside the private group.

[Serena Blanchflower]

Post by Fenny
On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 15:04:40 +0000, Serena Blanchflower

Post by Serena Blanchflower
I use Facebook quite a lot and have quite a wide range of contacts[1]
there, ranging from close friends and family to acquaintances, via quite
a few long lost friends, who I'm happy to be back in touch with. I keep
my security settings at a sensible level and don't share intimate
details of my life with all and sundry. The same is true of the vast
majority of the people I chat to there.

My issue with FB is that I *only* want to see posts from people I know
and don't want people I don't know to see my posts. But FB doesn't
seem to have any settings that mean I don't see stuff I don't know but
are friends of friends post.

Assuming you're accessing FB through either Chrome or Firefox, the
extension F.B.(FluffBusting)Purity will remove a large proportion of the
rubbish.

Post by Fenny
Which means I don't know who sees the
stuff I post if a friend of mine comments on it.

Assuming you have your security set so that only friends will see your
posts, then only your friends will see them, regardless of how many of
them have commented. When FB shows you something that Friend A has
posted on Stranger B's wall, that will be because Stranger B has set
their security so that their posts are either public or visible to
Friends of Friends.

Equally, when you post on a friend's post, who sees it is controlled by
your friend and whatever security settings they have used.

[Vicky]

On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 21:22:32 +0000, Serena Blanchflower

Post by Serena Blanchflower

Post by Fenny
On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 15:04:40 +0000, Serena Blanchflower

Post by Serena Blanchflower
I use Facebook quite a lot and have quite a wide range of contacts[1]
there, ranging from close friends and family to acquaintances, via quite
a few long lost friends, who I'm happy to be back in touch with. I keep
my security settings at a sensible level and don't share intimate
details of my life with all and sundry. The same is true of the vast
majority of the people I chat to there.

My issue with FB is that I *only* want to see posts from people I know
and don't want people I don't know to see my posts. But FB doesn't
seem to have any settings that mean I don't see stuff I don't know but
are friends of friends post.

Assuming you're accessing FB through either Chrome or Firefox, the
extension F.B.(FluffBusting)Purity will remove a large proportion of the
rubbish.

Post by Fenny
Which means I don't know who sees the
stuff I post if a friend of mine comments on it.

Assuming you have your security set so that only friends will see your
posts, then only your friends will see them, regardless of how many of
them have commented. When FB shows you something that Friend A has
posted on Stranger B's wall, that will be because Stranger B has set
their security so that their posts are either public or visible to
Friends of Friends.
Equally, when you post on a friend's post, who sees it is controlled by
your friend and whatever security settings they have used.

And it is possible to have friends whose posts you do not follow. I
have one or two who post lots of stuff about games, I can exclude
those posts and one friend posts like those Christmas round robins and
I just unfollowed her so we are friends but I don't see the posts. And
then you can have friends who do not see all your posts. They can be
in different groups, like livejournal, but not as easy to set.

[Fenny]

On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 21:22:32 +0000, Serena Blanchflower

Post by Serena Blanchflower

Post by Fenny
On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 15:04:40 +0000, Serena Blanchflower

Post by Serena Blanchflower
I use Facebook quite a lot and have quite a wide range of contacts[1]
there, ranging from close friends and family to acquaintances, via quite
a few long lost friends, who I'm happy to be back in touch with. I keep
my security settings at a sensible level and don't share intimate
details of my life with all and sundry. The same is true of the vast
majority of the people I chat to there.

My issue with FB is that I *only* want to see posts from people I know
and don't want people I don't know to see my posts. But FB doesn't
seem to have any settings that mean I don't see stuff I don't know but
are friends of friends post.

Assuming you're accessing FB through either Chrome or Firefox, the
extension F.B.(FluffBusting)Purity will remove a large proportion of the
rubbish.

I use Social Fixer, which removes all the crap I don't want on the
page. But I can't use it on my work machine.

Post by Serena Blanchflower

Post by Fenny
Which means I don't know who sees the
stuff I post if a friend of mine comments on it.

Assuming you have your security set so that only friends will see your
posts, then only your friends will see them, regardless of how many of
them have commented. When FB shows you something that Friend A has
posted on Stranger B's wall, that will be because Stranger B has set
their security so that their posts are either public or visible to
Friends of Friends.
Equally, when you post on a friend's post, who sees it is controlled by
your friend and whatever security settings they have used.

These are not the settings I signed up for when FB first started. They
decide when to change what settings mean when they feel like it.
They have changed all kinds of t&cs over the years. Even though they
give you the option to agree or not, the not option basically means
closing your account.

[Nick Odell]

Post by Serena Blanchflower

Post by SODAM
I don’t think non-use of social media implies contempt of users. It’s seems
strange to me that people want to live their life under a spotlight and
share every detail of it with the world. Putting up photos and revealing
all manner of things about themselves and their families makes me wonder
about personal security. It’s also funny that some think they have three
thousand friends because of it. However, chacun à son goût.

There's no rule which says that people who use social media have to
share every detail of their life with it, or to live under a spotlight
and most of us don't.
I use Facebook quite a lot and have quite a wide range of contacts[1]
there, ranging from close friends and family to acquaintances, via quite
a few long lost friends, who I'm happy to be back in touch with.  I keep
my security settings at a sensible level and don't share intimate
details of my life with all and sundry.  The same is true of the vast
majority of the people I chat to there.
None of them have anything close to three thousand friends/contacts on
there.

Post by SODAM
Umra is a real social group besides a virtual one - think of all those
wonderful bbqs, courtesy of the McToodles, and other meetings besides that
may not be shared.

The umrats I know best, and who I consider to be friends (in the real
sense) are ones I've got to know better through FB, where we discuss a
much wider range of topics than are on topic on umra.  Some of those
have been kind enough to come to visit me, so it's lead to real life
meetings, as well.
[1] Yes, I know FB chooses to call all your contacts "Friends" but I
think the vast majority of users do understand the difference between
real friends and FB friends.

Just as a slight swervette, given that one of the big, current stories
is about how Facebook lost control of/were duped into parting with/ data
about thousands of subscribers which may have been used to sway public
perceptions about many things including political outcomes and that,
according to various sources, Facebook are being incredibly coy about
discussing the issue, how much of this story is making it through
Facebook filters into people's news streams? At least, I think I mean
news streams: A lot of people seem to read their daily on-line
newspapers through Facebook with the kind of stories they are likely to
be interested in prioritised, don't they?

Nick

[Jim Easterbrook]

Post by Nick Odell

Post by Serena Blanchflower

Post by SODAM
I don’t think non-use of social media implies contempt of users. It’s
seems strange to me that people want to live their life under a
spotlight and share every detail of it with the world. Putting up
photos and revealing all manner of things about themselves and their
families makes me wonder about personal security. It’s also funny that
some think they have three thousand friends because of it. However,
chacun à son goût.

There's no rule which says that people who use social media have to
share every detail of their life with it, or to live under a spotlight
and most of us don't.
I use Facebook quite a lot and have quite a wide range of contacts[1]
there, ranging from close friends and family to acquaintances, via
quite a few long lost friends, who I'm happy to be back in touch with. 
I keep my security settings at a sensible level and don't share
intimate details of my life with all and sundry.  The same is true of
the vast majority of the people I chat to there.
None of them have anything close to three thousand friends/contacts on
there.

Post by SODAM
Umra is a real social group besides a virtual one - think of all those
wonderful bbqs, courtesy of the McToodles, and other meetings besides
that may not be shared.

The umrats I know best, and who I consider to be friends (in the real
sense) are ones I've got to know better through FB, where we discuss a
much wider range of topics than are on topic on umra.  Some of those
have been kind enough to come to visit me, so it's lead to real life
meetings, as well.
[1] Yes, I know FB chooses to call all your contacts "Friends" but I
think the vast majority of users do understand the difference between
real friends and FB friends.

Just as a slight swervette, given that one of the big, current stories
is about how Facebook lost control of/were duped into parting with/ data

You missed out /colluded in handing over/

[BrritSki]

A lot of people seem to read their daily on-line newspapers through
Facebook with the kind of stories they are likely to be interested in
prioritised, don't they?

Do they ? How peculiar. I certainly see some stories from online
newspapers reposted on FB, but if I want to read the news I go direct to
the online newspaper's website (or use the app in the Times case on my
tablet).

[Vicky]

On Tue, 20 Mar 2018 02:47:06 +0000, Nick Odell

Post by LFS
On 19/0
Just as a slight swervette, given that one of the big, current stories
is about how Facebook lost control of/were duped into parting with/ data
about thousands of subscribers which may have been used to sway public
perceptions about many things including political outcomes and that,
according to various sources, Facebook are being incredibly coy about
discussing the issue, how much of this story is making it through
Facebook filters into people's news streams? At least, I think I mean
news streams: A lot of people seem to read their daily on-line
newspapers through Facebook with the kind of stories they are likely to
be interested in prioritised, don't they?
Nick

One of my friends, real life, cybergypsy, almost the first person I
ever spoke to on Prestel in 1987, posted this on his fb timeline
http://newsthump.com/2018/03/19/how-much-does-cambridge-analytica-know-about-you-take-this-test-to-find-out/

:)

[LFS]

Post by Vicky
On Tue, 20 Mar 2018 02:47:06 +0000, Nick Odell

Post by LFS
On 19/0
Just as a slight swervette, given that one of the big, current stories
is about how Facebook lost control of/were duped into parting with/ data
about thousands of subscribers which may have been used to sway public
perceptions about many things including political outcomes and that,
according to various sources, Facebook are being incredibly coy about
discussing the issue, how much of this story is making it through
Facebook filters into people's news streams? At least, I think I mean
news streams: A lot of people seem to read their daily on-line
newspapers through Facebook with the kind of stories they are likely to
be interested in prioritised, don't they?
Nick

One of my friends, real life, cybergypsy, almost the first person I
ever spoke to on Prestel in 1987, posted this on his fb timeline
http://newsthump.com/2018/03/19/how-much-does-cambridge-analytica-know-about-you-take-this-test-to-find-out/
:)

excellent! But how many people will take it seriously?

[Jim Easterbrook]

Post by Serena Blanchflower

Post by SODAM
I don’t think non-use of social media implies contempt of users. It’s
seems strange to me that people want to live their life under a
spotlight and share every detail of it with the world. Putting up
photos and revealing all manner of things about themselves and their
families makes me wonder about personal security. It’s also funny that
some think they have three thousand friends because of it. However,
chacun à son goût.

There's no rule which says that people who use social media have to
share every detail of their life with it, or to live under a spotlight
and most of us don't.
I use Facebook quite a lot and have quite a wide range of contacts[1]
there, ranging from close friends and family to acquaintances, via quite
a few long lost friends, who I'm happy to be back in touch with. I keep
my security settings at a sensible level and don't share intimate
details of my life with all and sundry. The same is true of the vast
majority of the people I chat to there.

Every Facebook user should occasionally check on their privacy settings,
particularly what info they allow apps used by their "friends" to access.
(Friends may not always be quite as careful with their privacy settings.)
I found this article helpful and easy to understand.
https://www.slashgear.com/facebook-personal-audit-privacy-app-sharing-19523634/

[Serena Blanchflower]

Post by Jim Easterbrook

Post by Serena Blanchflower

Post by SODAM
I don’t think non-use of social media implies contempt of users. It’s
seems strange to me that people want to live their life under a
spotlight and share every detail of it with the world. Putting up
photos and revealing all manner of things about themselves and their
families makes me wonder about personal security. It’s also funny that
some think they have three thousand friends because of it. However,
chacun à son goût.

There's no rule which says that people who use social media have to
share every detail of their life with it, or to live under a spotlight
and most of us don't.
I use Facebook quite a lot and have quite a wide range of contacts[1]
there, ranging from close friends and family to acquaintances, via quite
a few long lost friends, who I'm happy to be back in touch with. I keep
my security settings at a sensible level and don't share intimate
details of my life with all and sundry. The same is true of the vast
majority of the people I chat to there.

Every Facebook user should occasionally check on their privacy settings,
particularly what info they allow apps used by their "friends" to access.
(Friends may not always be quite as careful with their privacy settings.)
I found this article helpful and easy to understand.
https://www.slashgear.com/facebook-personal-audit-privacy-app-sharing-19523634/

Yes, that's sensible. I blocked all apps on FB a long time ago and it's
only very rarely that that's been a significant nuisance.

I had been appalled, when I tried to give Flickr access to my FB account
and saw that, as well as wanting access to everything up to my inside
leg measurement (completely OTT for being able to post photos from one
account to another) but, far worse, they wanted similar access to all my
friends' accounts. I really didn't think I had the right to consent to
that. That really made me stop and think and decide I really didn't
want either to give any external applications access to my FB account or
to allow apps to run on FB.

[BrritSki]

Post by Jim Easterbrook

Post by Serena Blanchflower

Post by SODAM
I don’t think non-use of social media implies contempt of users. It’s
seems strange to me that people want to live their life under a
spotlight and share every detail of it with the world. Putting up
photos and revealing all manner of things about themselves and their
families makes me wonder about personal security. It’s also funny that
some think they have three thousand friends because of it. However,
chacun à son goût.

There's no rule which says that people who use social media have to
share every detail of their life with it, or to live under a spotlight
and most of us don't.
I use Facebook quite a lot and have quite a wide range of contacts[1]
there, ranging from close friends and family to acquaintances, via quite
a few long lost friends, who I'm happy to be back in touch with.  I keep
my security settings at a sensible level and don't share intimate
details of my life with all and sundry.  The same is true of the vast
majority of the people I chat to there.

Every Facebook user should occasionally check on their privacy settings,
particularly what info they allow apps used by their "friends" to access.
(Friends may not always be quite as careful with their privacy settings.)
I found this article helpful and easy to understand.
https://www.slashgear.com/facebook-personal-audit-privacy-app-sharing-19523634/

Yes, that's sensible.  I blocked all apps on FB a long time ago and it's
only very rarely that that's been a significant nuisance.
I had been appalled, when I tried to give Flickr access to my FB account
and saw that, as well as wanting access to everything up to my inside
leg measurement (completely OTT for being able to post photos from one
account to another) but, far worse, they wanted similar access to all my
friends' accounts.  I really didn't think I had the right to consent to
that.  That really made me stop and think and decide I really didn't
want either to give any external applications access to my FB account or
to allow apps to run on FB.

<languid wave> I also won't run FB as an app on my tablet or phone but
use the website everywhere.
<fx: senior moment> did I say this here a short while ago ?
</fx>

[LFS]

<languid wave>  I also won't run FB as an app on my tablet or phone but
use the website everywhere.
<fx: senior moment> did I say this here a short while ago ?
</fx>

If you didn't, I did. Apart from anything else, the app takes up a lot
of space.

[BrritSki]

Post by LFS

<languid wave>  I also won't run FB as an app on my tablet or phone
but use the website everywhere.
<fx: senior moment> did I say this here a short while ago ?
</fx>

If you didn't, I did. Apart from anything else, the app takes up a lot
of space.

Ah, perhaps I'm you then... Have you seen my glasses ?

[Vicky]

On Tue, 20 Mar 2018 10:13:45 +0000, Serena Blanchflower

Post by Serena Blanchflower

Post by Jim Easterbrook
Every Facebook user should occasionally check on their privacy settings,
particularly what info they allow apps used by their "friends" to access.
(Friends may not always be quite as careful with their privacy settings.)
I found this article helpful and easy to understand.
https://www.slashgear.com/facebook-personal-audit-privacy-app-sharing-19523634/

Yes, that's sensible. I blocked all apps on FB a long time ago and it's
only very rarely that that's been a significant nuisance.
I had been appalled, when I tried to give Flickr access to my FB account
and saw that, as well as wanting access to everything up to my inside
leg measurement (completely OTT for being able to post photos from one
account to another) but, far worse, they wanted similar access to all my
friends' accounts. I really didn't think I had the right to consent to
that. That really made me stop and think and decide I really didn't
want either to give any external applications access to my FB account or
to allow apps to run on FB.

I do often find there is a link to a quiz or game but to use it I have
to give permission to access things that sound OTT so I don't do the
quiz.

[Sally Thompson]

Post by Vicky
On Tue, 20 Mar 2018 10:13:45 +0000, Serena Blanchflower

Post by Serena Blanchflower

Post by Jim Easterbrook
Every Facebook user should occasionally check on their privacy settings,
particularly what info they allow apps used by their "friends" to access.
(Friends may not always be quite as careful with their privacy settings.)
I found this article helpful and easy to understand.
https://www.slashgear.com/facebook-personal-audit-privacy-app-sharing-19523634/

Yes, that's sensible. I blocked all apps on FB a long time ago and it's
only very rarely that that's been a significant nuisance.
I had been appalled, when I tried to give Flickr access to my FB account
and saw that, as well as wanting access to everything up to my inside
leg measurement (completely OTT for being able to post photos from one
account to another) but, far worse, they wanted similar access to all my
friends' accounts. I really didn't think I had the right to consent to
that. That really made me stop and think and decide I really didn't
want either to give any external applications access to my FB account or
to allow apps to run on FB.

I do often find there is a link to a quiz or game but to use it I have
to give permission to access things that sound OTT so I don't do the
quiz.

Those “innocent” quizzes are anything but, and busy collecting and
collating information about you.

[Vicky]

On 20 Mar 2018 09:28:56 GMT, Jim Easterbrook

Post by Jim Easterbrook

Post by Serena Blanchflower

I don’t think non-use of social media implies contempt of users. It’s
seems strange to me that people want to live their life under a
spotlight and share every detail of it with the world. Putting up
photos and revealing all manner of things about themselves and their
families makes me wonder about personal security. It’s also funny that
some think they have three thousand friends because of it. However,
chacun à son goût.

There's no rule which says that people who use social media have to
share every detail of their life with it, or to live under a spotlight
and most of us don't.
I use Facebook quite a lot and have quite a wide range of contacts[1]
there, ranging from close friends and family to acquaintances, via quite
a few long lost friends, who I'm happy to be back in touch with. I keep
my security settings at a sensible level and don't share intimate
details of my life with all and sundry. The same is true of the vast
majority of the people I chat to there.

Every Facebook user should occasionally check on their privacy settings,
particularly what info they allow apps used by their "friends" to access.
(Friends may not always be quite as careful with their privacy settings.)
I found this article helpful and easy to understand.
https://www.slashgear.com/facebook-personal-audit-privacy-app-sharing-19523634/

Thank you, that was a useful spring clean.

[Btms]

Post by Vicky
On 20 Mar 2018 09:28:56 GMT, Jim Easterbrook

Post by Jim Easterbrook

Post by Serena Blanchflower

I don’t think non-use of social media implies contempt of users. It’s
seems strange to me that people want to live their life under a
spotlight and share every detail of it with the world. Putting up
photos and revealing all manner of things about themselves and their
families makes me wonder about personal security. It’s also funny that
some think they have three thousand friends because of it. However,
chacun à son goût.

There's no rule which says that people who use social media have to
share every detail of their life with it, or to live under a spotlight
and most of us don't.
I use Facebook quite a lot and have quite a wide range of contacts[1]
there, ranging from close friends and family to acquaintances, via quite
a few long lost friends, who I'm happy to be back in touch with. I keep
my security settings at a sensible level and don't share intimate
details of my life with all and sundry. The same is true of the vast
majority of the people I chat to there.

Every Facebook user should occasionally check on their privacy settings,
particularly what info they allow apps used by their "friends" to access.
(Friends may not always be quite as careful with their privacy settings.)
I found this article helpful and easy to understand.
https://www.slashgear.com/facebook-personal-audit-privacy-app-sharing-19523634/

Thank you, that was a useful spring clean.

But what if they are purloining your data at the same time?

[Penny]

On Tue, 20 Mar 2018 11:17:13 +0000, Vicky <***@gmail.com> scrawled
in the dust...

Post by Vicky
On 20 Mar 2018 09:28:56 GMT, Jim Easterbrook

Post by Jim Easterbrook
Every Facebook user should occasionally check on their privacy settings,
particularly what info they allow apps used by their "friends" to access.
(Friends may not always be quite as careful with their privacy settings.)
I found this article helpful and easy to understand.
https://www.slashgear.com/facebook-personal-audit-privacy-app-sharing-19523634/

Thank you, that was a useful spring clean.

But probably too late unless you contact each app and demand they delete
the data you already allowed them to take :(

[Vicky]

On 20 Mar 2018 09:28:56 GMT, Jim Easterbrook

Post by Jim Easterbrook
Every Facebook user should occasionally check on their privacy settings,
particularly what info they allow apps used by their "friends" to access.
(Friends may not always be quite as careful with their privacy settings.)
I found this article helpful and easy to understand.
https://www.slashgear.com/facebook-personal-audit-privacy-app-sharing-19523634/

It could be coincidence, but an hour or so after doing the audit and
spring clean a popup began screaming at me that I have a virus
accessing my bank details and to ring a number to get help....I shut
all browsers etc down and it went. B said it was some popup and when I
opened things it wasn't there. Our virus software seems happy.

[Btms]

Post by SODAM

Post by BrritSki
I hinted a few weeks ago that I was expecting things to happen that
would be keeping me busier than normal this year.
Well I think I can now let you all know that BrritSgrrl has accepted a
job as a teacher in Bedford at the junior school that she and BrratSki
went to 30 years ago and where his two oldest now go. She starts in
September. SoL is also keen to go as soon as possible as he has long
wanted to expand his horizons and AGCs are very excited about spending
more time with their cousins.
So with all our immediate family back there we are planning to spend a
<https://www.gate-away.com/property_detail.php?id=354235>
We're sad in many ways to be leaving, but the land is getting a bit too
much now even for the waife. We'll also save a LOT of money in tax. If
we sell quickly for a decent price we will almost certainly re-invest in
a small apartment for the summer months here, but we'll see...
So if you know of anyone wanting to live La Dolce Vita, let us know...

What a beautiful house Britters, old boy! It would be easy to envy it, if
one were covetous. All that plus sunshine and friendly natives. I imagine
it would be a wrench to leave the life you have made there if it wasn’t for
reuniting your family.
I hope you don’t find the uk too changed when you return. It seems to me
that generally people have become more judgmental and critical. Students
wanting to pull down statues and erase history is a symptom of this. We are
ever more thin-skinned and need warnings before a programme if it contains
violence, sex, swearing or “upsetting” content. One can even phone a
helpline if a programme proves too much to bear. What happened to the
stiff upper lip and free speech? Is it alive and well only on umra?
I partially blame social media, with which I have no truck.

Yikes! Sort of doubt there will be be views to mitigate the loss but
hopefully there will be other benefits to balance.

[BrritSki]

On 18/03/2018 12:27, SODAM wrote:

<snippage>

Thanks again for further replies...

Post by SODAM
I hope you don’t find the uk too changed when you return. It seems to me
that generally people have become more judgmental and critical. Students
wanting to pull down statues and erase history is a symptom of this. We are
ever more thin-skinned and need warnings before a programme if it contains
violence, sex, swearing or “upsetting” content. One can even phone a
helpline if a programme proves too much to bear. What happened to the
stiff upper lip and free speech? Is it alive and well only on umra?

Not too worried about that - we moved back to the UK twice before, first
after living in Italy and Texas (2+1 years for me, 9+1 years for waife)
and then after 5 years of living in France, and that was much harder as
we really had lost touch, to the point where I was even finding myself
questioning whether English phrases I was using were correct (they were,
but working in a French environment and only watching French TV made
them very unfamiliar).

This time although we've been away for 13 years now we've had UK TV
access the whole time and of course the internet with various forms of
social media, a subscription to the Times etc as well as regular trips
"home" all of which has kept us very much up to date.

[SODAM]

Post by BrritSki
<snippage>
Thanks again for further replies...

Post by SODAM
I hope you don’t find the uk too changed when you return. It seems to me
that generally people have become more judgmental and critical. Students
wanting to pull down statues and erase history is a symptom of this. We are
ever more thin-skinned and need warnings before a programme if it contains
violence, sex, swearing or “upsetting” content. One can even phone a
helpline if a programme proves too much to bear. What happened to the
stiff upper lip and free speech? Is it alive and well only on umra?

Not too worried about that - we moved back to the UK twice before, first
after living in Italy and Texas (2+1 years for me, 9+1 years for waife)
and then after 5 years of living in France, and that was much harder as
we really had lost touch, to the point where I was even finding myself
questioning whether English phrases I was using were correct (they were,
but working in a French environment and only watching French TV made
them very unfamiliar).
This time although we've been away for 13 years now we've had UK TV
access the whole time and of course the internet with various forms of
social media, a subscription to the Times etc as well as regular trips
"home" all of which has kept us very much up to date.

That’s interesting. I wonder how long it would take before a second
language began to completely replace one’s native tongue? A linguistics
lecturer once told me that your mother tongue is the one that you dream in
and count in, if you are doing a job. Did you continue to do that,
Brritski?

[BrritSki]

Post by SODAM
That’s interesting. I wonder how long it would take before a second
language began to completely replace one’s native tongue? A linguistics
lecturer once told me that your mother tongue is the one that you dream in
and count in, if you are doing a job. Did you continue to do that,
Brritski?

Definitely still have English as my mother tongue and my French is still
better than my Italian (disgracefully), mainly because we watched a
French film most nights during that stay and I worked next to a French
girl who didn't like to speak English for much of the time. But even
then we always spoke English at home and were part of the English
speaking expat. community.

The earlier stay in Italy I was only there "for another month" that
eventually lasted for 2 years and all the Italians wanted to improve
their English and all the friends outside work spoke English so the only
time I spoke Italian was in bars and restaurants !

[Kate B]

Post by BrritSki

  That’s interesting. I wonder how long it would take before a second
language began to completely replace one’s native tongue? A linguistics
lecturer once told me that your mother tongue is the one that you dream in
and count in, if you are doing a job. Did you continue to do that,
Brritski?

Definitely still have English as my mother tongue and my French is still
better than my Italian (disgracefully), mainly because we watched a
French film most nights during that stay and I worked next to a French
girl who didn't like to speak English for much of the time. But even
then we always spoke English at home and were part of the English
speaking expat. community.
The earlier stay in Italy I was only there "for another month" that
eventually lasted for 2 years and all the Italians wanted to improve
their English and all the friends outside work spoke English so the only
time I spoke Italian was in bars and restaurants !

I spent four years in deepest Austria, learning German from scratch
(unless you count about 5 chapters of Teach Yourself German) in a fairly
monoglot environment (music college - everyone could manage classical
music Italian and a bit of pop music English but not much more). I came
home in the holidays for a couple of weeks, but essentially was there
until I returned for good. For about three months after that I had no
idea what would come out of my mouth - English, German, a German idiom
translated into English, or an English idiom translated into German. I
had to rely on the expressions of my listeners to tell me whether what
I'd actually said was half-way intelligible. I dreamt in macaroni, but
then I still do.

[LFS]

On 19/03/2018 10:37, Kate B wrote:
I dreamt in macaroni, but

Post by Kate B
then I still do.

Had a confusing pasta moment there but then realised you meant a mixture
like The Motor Bus

What is this that roareth thus?
Can it be a Motor Bus?
Yes, the smell and hideous hum
Indicat Motorem Bum!
Implet in the Corn and High
Terror me Motoris Bi:
Bo Motori clamitabo
Ne Motore caedar a Bo---
Dative be or Ablative
So thou only let us live:---
Whither shall thy victims flee?
Spare us, spare us, Motor Be!
Thus I sang; and still anigh
Came in hordes Motores Bi,
Et complebat omne forum
Copia Motorum Borum.
How shall wretches live like us
Cincti Bis Motoribus?
Domine, defende nos
Contra hos Motores Bos!


I am no Latin scholar but I do like this and often mutter it to myself
while waiting for a bus in the High (no bus stops in the Corn any more
but you can easily get run over by one there, especially when coming out
of the new shopping centre as there is no kerb or any indication that
you are stepping onto a road rather than a pavement).

[Chris McMillan]

Post by Kate B
I dreamt in macaroni, but

Post by Kate B
then I still do.

Had a confusing pasta moment there but then realised you meant a mixture
like The Motor Bus
What is this that roareth thus?
Can it be a Motor Bus?
Yes, the smell and hideous hum
Indicat Motorem Bum!
Implet in the Corn and High
Bo Motori clamitabo
Ne Motore caedar a Bo---
Dative be or Ablative
So thou only let us live:---
Whither shall thy victims flee?
Spare us, spare us, Motor Be!
Thus I sang; and still anigh
Came in hordes Motores Bi,
Et complebat omne forum
Copia Motorum Borum.
How shall wretches live like us
Cincti Bis Motoribus?
Domine, defende nos
Contra hos Motores Bos!
I am no Latin scholar but I do like this and often mutter it to myself
while waiting for a bus in the High (no bus stops in the Corn any more
but you can easily get run over by one there, especially when coming out
of the new shopping centre as there is no kerb or any indication that
you are stepping onto a road rather than a pavement).

Thanks for warning me, Laura!

Sincerely Chris

[John Ashby]

Post by Chris McMillan

Post by Kate B
I dreamt in macaroni, but

Post by Kate B
then I still do.

Had a confusing pasta moment there but then realised you meant a mixture
like The Motor Bus
What is this that roareth thus?
Can it be a Motor Bus?
Yes, the smell and hideous hum
Indicat Motorem Bum!
Implet in the Corn and High
Bo Motori clamitabo
Ne Motore caedar a Bo---
Dative be or Ablative
So thou only let us live:---
Whither shall thy victims flee?
Spare us, spare us, Motor Be!
Thus I sang; and still anigh
Came in hordes Motores Bi,
Et complebat omne forum
Copia Motorum Borum.
How shall wretches live like us
Cincti Bis Motoribus?
Domine, defende nos
Contra hos Motores Bos!
I am no Latin scholar but I do like this and often mutter it to myself
while waiting for a bus in the High (no bus stops in the Corn any more
but you can easily get run over by one there, especially when coming out
of the new shopping centre as there is no kerb or any indication that
you are stepping onto a road rather than a pavement).

Thanks for warning me, Laura!
Sincerely Chris

A few weeks ago I was run over by a London bound coach at Carfax as it
turned from St Aldates into the High. All right, I exaggerate; its wing
mirror clipped my arm as it swung round. Fortunately a) I was unharmed
and b) the operator's have an office on the High at which I was able to
file a complaint. The point I made to them was that if I had been a less
resilient person, elderly, frail, partially sighted, for example, or
with a weak heart, even a slight brush of a wing mirror could have had
serious consequences.

A few days later a woman was knocked down by a similar bus on Frideswide
Square near the railway station.

john

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <p8p2kf$6c6$***@dont-email.me>, John Ashby
<***@yahoo.com> writes:
[]

Post by John Ashby
A few weeks ago I was run over by a London bound coach at Carfax as it
turned from St Aldates into the High. All right, I exaggerate; its wing
mirror clipped my arm as it swung round. Fortunately a) I was unharmed
and b) the operator's have an office on the High at which I was able to
file a complaint. The point I made to them was that if I had been a
less resilient person, elderly, frail, partially sighted, for example,
or with a weak heart, even a slight brush of a wing mirror could have
had serious consequences.

What was their response, both at that time ...

Post by John Ashby
A few days later a woman was knocked down by a similar bus on
Frideswide Square near the railway station.
john

... and after that incident?

[John Ashby]

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]

Post by John Ashby
A few weeks ago I was run over by a London bound coach at Carfax as it
turned from St Aldates into the High. All right, I exaggerate; its
wing mirror clipped my arm as it swung round. Fortunately a) I was
unharmed and b) the operator's have an office on the High at which I
was able to file a complaint. The point I made to them was that if I
had been a less resilient person, elderly, frail, partially sighted,
for example, or with a weak heart, even a slight brush of a wing
mirror could have had serious consequences.

What was their response, both at that time ...

Concern from the staff in the office, followed by an email saying that
the driver had been identified and spoken to. (What I would have hoped
for was a general warning to drivers that the turn there was potentially
hazardous, but that would require some joined-up thinking.)

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by John Ashby
A few days later a woman was knocked down by a similar bus on
Frideswide Square near the railway station.
john

... and after that incident?

I didn't follow it closely enough to say,merely noted the coincidence in
my memory banks.

john

[Sid Nuncius]

Post by John Ashby

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
... and after that incident?

I didn't follow it closely enough to say,merely noted the coincidence in
my memory banks.

<swerve> (See what I did there?)

Listening to Stile Antico's lovely Wigmore Hall Lunchtime Concert
yesterday, I wondered whether any of your family members were involved,
John?

[John Ashby]

Post by Sid Nuncius

Post by John Ashby

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
... and after that incident?

I didn't follow it closely enough to say,merely noted the coincidence
in my memory banks.

<swerve> (See what I did there?)
Listening to Stile Antico's lovely Wigmore Hall Lunchtime Concert
yesterday, I wondered whether any of your family members were involved,
John?

Three of them were, one of whom did the spiel (and subtle product
placement) at the end.

Glad you enjoyed it, Sid.

john

[John Ashby]

Post by John Ashby

Post by Sid Nuncius

Post by John Ashby

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
... and after that incident?

I didn't follow it closely enough to say,merely noted the coincidence
in my memory banks.

<swerve> (See what I did there?)
Listening to Stile Antico's lovely Wigmore Hall Lunchtime Concert
yesterday, I wondered whether any of your family members were
involved, John?

Three of them were, one of whom did the spiel (and subtle product
placement) at the end.

In a breach of netiquette I foolow up to myself to remark that the
product in question was the cause of them travelling to New York last
month to sing a three minute slot at the Grammy award ceremony. Surely
they could have skyped it.

john

[Sid Nuncius]

Post by John Ashby

Post by John Ashby

Post by Sid Nuncius

Post by John Ashby

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
... and after that incident?

I didn't follow it closely enough to say,merely noted the
coincidence in my memory banks.

<swerve> (See what I did there?)
Listening to Stile Antico's lovely Wigmore Hall Lunchtime Concert
yesterday, I wondered whether any of your family members were
involved, John?

Three of them were, one of whom did the spiel (and subtle product
placement) at the end.

In a breach of netiquette I foolow up to myself to remark that the
product in question was the cause of them travelling to New York last
month to sing a three minute slot at the Grammy award ceremony. Surely
they could have skyped it.

Sharper than a serpent's tooth... :o)

Seriously - I'm very impressed (as ever). If anyrats were unaware, the
three daughters in question can be seen at the Grammys here:

and heard here singing in Monday's concert:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09w2vmt

[BrritSki]

Post by John Ashby

Post by John Ashby

Post by Sid Nuncius

Post by John Ashby

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
... and after that incident?

I didn't follow it closely enough to say,merely noted the
coincidence in my memory banks.

<swerve> (See what I did there?)
Listening to Stile Antico's lovely Wigmore Hall Lunchtime Concert
yesterday, I wondered whether any of your family members were
involved, John?

Three of them were, one of whom did the spiel (and subtle product
placement) at the end.

In a breach of netiquette I foolow up to myself to remark that the
product in question was the cause of them travelling to New York last
month to sing a three minute slot at the Grammy award ceremony. Surely
they could have skyped it.

Sharper than a serpent's tooth...  :o)
Seriously - I'm very impressed (as ever).  If anyrats were unaware, the
http://youtu.be/B-IRgUyl3WQ
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09w2vmt

Very fine knickers !

[LFS]

Post by John Ashby
A few weeks ago I was run over by a London bound coach at Carfax as it
turned from St Aldates into the High. All right, I exaggerate; its wing
mirror clipped my arm as it swung round. Fortunately a) I was unharmed
and b) the operator's have an office on the High at which I was able to
file a complaint. The point I made to them was that if I had been a less
resilient person, elderly, frail, partially sighted, for example, or
with a weak heart, even a slight brush of a wing mirror could have had
serious consequences.
A few days later a woman was knocked down by a similar bus on Frideswide
Square near the railway station.

I travel frequently on the buses to London. The standard of driving has
deteriorated dramatically in recent months and I suspect that the bus
companies are having recruitment difficulties. There seem to be fewer
Eastern European drivers: they tend to be very good drivers although
their announcements are often unintelligible.

I reported one driver for swearing at other road users and driving with
his knees rather than his hands. He was English.

[Chris McMillan]

Post by John Ashby

Post by Chris McMillan

Post by Kate B
I dreamt in macaroni, but

Post by Kate B
then I still do.

Had a confusing pasta moment there but then realised you meant a mixture
like The Motor Bus
What is this that roareth thus?
Can it be a Motor Bus?
Yes, the smell and hideous hum
Indicat Motorem Bum!
Implet in the Corn and High
Bo Motori clamitabo
Ne Motore caedar a Bo---
Dative be or Ablative
So thou only let us live:---
Whither shall thy victims flee?
Spare us, spare us, Motor Be!
Thus I sang; and still anigh
Came in hordes Motores Bi,
Et complebat omne forum
Copia Motorum Borum.
How shall wretches live like us
Cincti Bis Motoribus?
Domine, defende nos
Contra hos Motores Bos!
I am no Latin scholar but I do like this and often mutter it to myself
while waiting for a bus in the High (no bus stops in the Corn any more
but you can easily get run over by one there, especially when coming out
of the new shopping centre as there is no kerb or any indication that
you are stepping onto a road rather than a pavement).

Thanks for warning me, Laura!
Sincerely Chris

A few weeks ago I was run over by a London bound coach at Carfax as it
turned from St Aldates into the High. All right, I exaggerate; its wing
mirror clipped my arm as it swung round. Fortunately a) I was unharmed
and b) the operator's have an office on the High at which I was able to
file a complaint. The point I made to them was that if I had been a less
resilient person, elderly, frail, partially sighted, for example, or
with a weak heart, even a slight brush of a wing mirror could have had
serious consequences.
A few days later a woman was knocked down by a similar bus on Frideswide
Square near the railway station.
john

That area scares me witless! What it does to be average new student
I can’t imagine!

Sincerely Chris

[Vicky]

Post by Kate B

Post by BrritSki

  That’s interesting. I wonder how long it would take before a second
language began to completely replace one’s native tongue? A linguistics
lecturer once told me that your mother tongue is the one that you dream in
and count in, if you are doing a job. Did you continue to do that,
Brritski?

Definitely still have English as my mother tongue and my French is still
better than my Italian (disgracefully), mainly because we watched a
French film most nights during that stay and I worked next to a French
girl who didn't like to speak English for much of the time. But even
then we always spoke English at home and were part of the English
speaking expat. community.
The earlier stay in Italy I was only there "for another month" that
eventually lasted for 2 years and all the Italians wanted to improve
their English and all the friends outside work spoke English so the only
time I spoke Italian was in bars and restaurants !

I spent four years in deepest Austria, learning German from scratch
(unless you count about 5 chapters of Teach Yourself German) in a fairly
monoglot environment (music college - everyone could manage classical
music Italian and a bit of pop music English but not much more). I came
home in the holidays for a couple of weeks, but essentially was there
until I returned for good. For about three months after that I had no
idea what would come out of my mouth - English, German, a German idiom
translated into English, or an English idiom translated into German. I
had to rely on the expressions of my listeners to tell me whether what
I'd actually said was half-way intelligible. I dreamt in macaroni, but
then I still do.

I learned German from the age of 4 when my grandparents joined us in
the UK and lived next door. They spoke no English, or very little in
spite of having lived in the US during the way. We all just spoke
German and I did too. So I am almost bilingual, and did German at A
Level and first year University.

I liked French at school and did that at A Level and university too
and am pretty fluent and then we spent 2 years in Spain and learned
Spanish beforehand and while there. The best input came when I worked
with babies and toddlers teaching English and spending time with the
Spanish class teacher. I find some words are best in German and do
get echoes of Spanish. The French interfered with the Spanish badly
and now there are still wrong words that pop up.

Baby granddaughter had one parent who is fluent in Spanish and has a
professorship in Columbia, or had. They had 2 nannies, 2 days was the
South American one from Chillie who spoke only Spanish to
granddaughter. Now she is mostly with mum and in nursery and the
Spanish-speaking nanny was just over a year, but I try and speak a
little Spanish to her. Our dogs were bilingual and I have dog and
toddler Spanish from working with children over there. :).
Granddaughter definitely understands Spanish but almost never says
anything in it. Her dad still tries to speak it to her when he looks
after her. She knows which is which.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <***@4ax.com>, Vicky
<***@gmail.com> writes:
[]

Post by Vicky
I learned German from the age of 4

A good age to do so.
[]

Post by Vicky
Spanish class teacher. I find some words are best in German and do

Yes, once you have a couple of extra languages, some words do indeed
seem best in one of them (I love the German for ham roll, for example),
and certainly one can sometimes come out with the wrong one. Which is,
unfortunately, often taken as showing off, when it isn't really.
[]

Post by Vicky
South American one from Chillie who spoke only Spanish to

[]
My dad spoke Spanish, very fluently in the South American variety, as he
worked there for a while in the 'fifties (for the Bank of London and
South America [now part of Lloyds]; my parents were married there).

It's rather a different dialect though - I suppose like American versus
British English. He implied that he often got odd looks when he used it
with European Spanish-speakers (though I imagine him having been there
in the 'fifties may also have made it sound quaint too). [He was in
Argentina under Peròn, and disapproved of (the album) Evita; he never
did grasp that it wasn't in praise of her, quite the opposite.]

[Mike]

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
My dad spoke Spanish, very fluently in the South American variety, as he
worked there for a while in the 'fifties (for the Bank of London and
South America [now part of Lloyds]; my parents were married there).
It's rather a different dialect though - I suppose like American versus
British English. He implied that he often got odd looks when he used it
with European Spanish-speakers (though I imagine him having been there
in the 'fifties may also have made it sound quaint too). [He was in
Argentina under Peròn, and disapproved of (the album) Evita; he never
did grasp that it wasn't in praise of her, quite the opposite.]

I speak just the one language and thus never risk pretending to be JFK.;-)

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <oONrC.242270$***@fx13.am4>, Mike
<***@ntlworld.com> writes:
[]

Post by Mike
I speak just the one language and thus never risk pretending to be JFK.;-)

Ah, you mean the famous "I too am a jam doughnut" statement? [And yes, I
know it wasn't _really_ interpretable that way, but it's a good story.]

[Nick Odell]

Post by Mike
I speak just the one language and thus never risk pretending to be JFK.;-)

Japanese, French, Korean?

Nick

[Mike]

Post by Nick Odell

Post by Mike
I speak just the one language and thus never risk pretending to be JFK.;-)

Japanese, French, Korean?
Nick

No, the airport!;-)))

[Sam Plusnet]

Post by Mike

Post by Nick Odell

Post by Mike
I speak just the one language and thus never risk pretending to be JFK.;-)

Japanese, French, Korean?
Nick

No, the airport!;-)))

That's just a flight of fancy.

[Penny]

On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 10:37:52 +0000, Kate B <***@nospam.demon.co.uk>
scrawled in the dust...

Post by Kate B
For about three months after that I had no
idea what would come out of my mouth - English, German, a German idiom
translated into English, or an English idiom translated into German. I
had to rely on the expressions of my listeners to tell me whether what
I'd actually said was half-way intelligible.

:)
D#1 worked for a while in Vancouver before travelling east to take in other
parts of Canada before coming home. In one largely French speaking city she
and a friend were asked directions which she confidently gave in French.
She then turned to her friend to congratulate herself on this achievement
and her baffled friend pointed out that the question had been posed in
English.

[Nick Odell]

Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...

Post by Kate B
For about three months after that I had no
idea what would come out of my mouth - English, German, a German idiom
translated into English, or an English idiom translated into German. I
had to rely on the expressions of my listeners to tell me whether what
I'd actually said was half-way intelligible.

:)
D#1 worked for a while in Vancouver before travelling east to take in other
parts of Canada before coming home. In one largely French speaking city she
and a friend were asked directions which she confidently gave in French.
She then turned to her friend to congratulate herself on this achievement
and her baffled friend pointed out that the question had been posed in
English.

I remember working at the Frankfurt Musikmesse one year and trying
hurriedly to assess whether French or German offered the best approach
whilst the potential client was obviously doing the same. Eventually we
each discovered the other was English.

I struggle with Spanish. I have pieces of paper that say I can read and
write and speak to quite a reasonable level. They even say my listening
skills are good.

But. Foreigners. And. Language. Teachers. Speak. A. Form. Of. Spanish.
That. I. Can. Understand. Whilst.
RealSpanishSpeakingArgentinesRunTheirWordsTogetherSoCloseThatICanNeverFindMyWayIntoTheConversationAndWorkOutWhatIsGoingOn.

Nick

[Kate B]

Post by Nick Odell

Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...

Post by Kate B
For about three months after that I had no
idea what would come out of my mouth - English, German, a German idiom
translated into English, or an English idiom translated into German. I
had to rely on the expressions of my listeners to tell me whether what
I'd actually said was half-way intelligible.

:)
D#1 worked for a while in Vancouver before travelling east to take in other
parts of Canada before coming home. In one largely French speaking city she
and a friend were asked directions which she confidently gave in French.
She then turned to her friend to congratulate herself on this achievement
and her baffled friend pointed out that the question had been posed in
English.

Oh, I've done that! How we laughed! While curling up and dying inside a
little bit.

Post by Nick Odell
I remember working at the Frankfurt Musikmesse one year and trying
hurriedly to assess whether French or German offered the best approach
whilst the potential client was obviously doing the same. Eventually we
each discovered the other was English.

Yes to that too. And there is the other frequent disaster opportunity,
where you are confronted with a choice of languages which could be
tricky. As in the Sud-Tirol/Alt-Adige, where the choice of greeting is
crucial, or even in Switzerland, where English is often more kindly
received than Hoch Deutsch. Where I really came to grief, though, was in
Halle, where they associated my Austrian accent with deplorable laziness
and frivolity, but English (this was just after the unification) wasn't
really an option.

Post by Nick Odell
I struggle with Spanish. I have pieces of paper that say I can read and
write and speak to quite a reasonable level. They even say my listening
skills are good.
But. Foreigners. And. Language. Teachers. Speak. A. Form. Of. Spanish.
That. I. Can. Understand. Whilst.
RealSpanishSpeakingArgentinesRunTheirWordsTogetherSoCloseThatICanNeverFindMyWayIntoTheConversationAndWorkOutWhatIsGoingOn.

You are me, only in French, and I claim my five toothless Dordogne peasants.

[[e-mail] Tony Smith Prestbury]

On Monday, 19 March 2018 16:04:05 UTC, Kate B wrote:

<snipped>

Post by Kate B
Yes to that too. And there is the other frequent disaster opportunity,
where you are confronted with a choice of languages which could be
tricky. As in the Sud-Tirol/Alt-Adige, where the choice of greeting is
crucial, or even in Switzerland, where English is often more kindly
received than Hoch Deutsch.

<snipped>

We recently had a holiday in Dorf Tirol nr. Meran. When the locals said "bon giorno" we replied "Gruß Gott" and conversation proceeded in German.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message
<2098384171.543145538.818921.kemp_m-***@news.eternal-september.o
rg>, SODAM <***@talktalk.net> writes:
[]

Post by SODAM
That’s interesting. I wonder how long it would take before a second
language began to completely replace one’s native tongue? A linguistics
lecturer once told me that your mother tongue is the one that you dream in
and count in, if you are doing a job. Did you continue to do that,
Brritski?

I remember my Mum telling us how proud she'd been, way back in her
youth, when she had her first dream in French. (I don't think she said
at what _point_ in her education this first dream: her _degree_ was in
_Mediaeval_ French, which she was fond of saying it'd be hard to find a
less commercially-useful qualification. But she spoke French fluently.
[And also - though she'd never formally learnt it as such much - German;
she'd start by apologising for her German, then go off nineteen to the
dozen in it!])

When I was little (about 6-10?), I did only know the German words for
some things - jam doughnut (Berliner) is one I remember. (It's all
context! There was somewhere we often went where I had one, but no
English-speaking similar place.)

[Chris McMillan]

Post by SODAM

Post by BrritSki
<snippage>
Thanks again for further replies...

Post by SODAM
I hope you don’t find the uk too changed when you return. It seems to me
that generally people have become more judgmental and critical. Students
wanting to pull down statues and erase history is a symptom of this. We are
ever more thin-skinned and need warnings before a programme if it contains
violence, sex, swearing or “upsetting” content. One can even phone a
helpline if a programme proves too much to bear. What happened to the
stiff upper lip and free speech? Is it alive and well only on umra?

Not too worried about that - we moved back to the UK twice before, first
after living in Italy and Texas (2+1 years for me, 9+1 years for waife)
and then after 5 years of living in France, and that was much harder as
we really had lost touch, to the point where I was even finding myself
questioning whether English phrases I was using were correct (they were,
but working in a French environment and only watching French TV made
them very unfamiliar).
This time although we've been away for 13 years now we've had UK TV
access the whole time and of course the internet with various forms of
social media, a subscription to the Times etc as well as regular trips
"home" all of which has kept us very much up to date.

That’s interesting. I wonder how long it would take before a second
language began to completely replace one’s native tongue? A linguistics
lecturer once told me that your mother tongue is the one that you dream in
and count in, if you are doing a job. Did you continue to do that,
Brritski?

Vicenta has been here fifty seven years, married fifty three and she still
needs extensive help in Spanish, Roger didn’t speak it well but could do
single words and was always bellowing in Spanish at her when I failed to
make her hear. I think my voice is in her fail to hear frequency range.
These days when in a wi fi connected cafe we try to give her Spanish
translations via Wikipedia of any topic we discussed with Roger.

Sincerely Chris

[SODAM]

Post by Chris McMillan
Vicenta has been here fifty seven years, married fifty three and she still
needs extensive help in Spanish, Roger didn’t speak it well but could do
single words and was always bellowing in Spanish at her when I failed to
make her hear. I think my voice is in her fail to hear frequency range.
These days when in a wi fi connected cafe we try to give her Spanish
translations via Wikipedia of any topic we discussed with Roger.
Sincerely Chris

I have a German friend (who had an Irish mother) and moved to England when
she was nine. She took an Oxford degree. When she was about forty, we went
to Germany together. In Coblenz or similar I saw a lovely building and
asked what the stone engraving said. She told me, “ this building in 1665
was made. It destroyed in the war was and in 1950 it builded up again was”.
Turned out that in England she spoke perfect English and in Germany pidgin
English and halting German.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message
<392323482.543175956.563760.kemp_m-***@news.eternal-september.or
g>, SODAM <***@talktalk.net> writes:
[]

Post by SODAM
I have a German friend (who had an Irish mother) and moved to England when

You remind me of an Italian engineer we had with us for a while, who had
a German mother - he looked decidedly not Italian, pinkish-white
complexion. Anyway: since he was staying for a while, it was
advantageous to him to open an account at a British bank. My friend (and
boss) Martin went with him to see the manager, to translate: from
English to English. Martin told us he had difficulty keeping a straight
face.

Post by SODAM
she was nine. She took an Oxford degree. When she was about forty, we went
to Germany together. In Coblenz or similar I saw a lovely building and
asked what the stone engraving said. She told me, “ this building in 1665
was made. It destroyed in the war was and in 1950 it builded up again was”.
Turned out that in England she spoke perfect English and in Germany pidgin
English and halting German.

To be fair, she read more or less what was on the stone; had she turned
it into more conventional English, she would have had to leave long
pauses while she read to the end of the sentence. Because German its
words in this to-us-strange order puts, interpretation either has to
translate in this to us slightly comic order, or to pause. It's worse
for spoken German (as in for example the EC), where the interpreter
cannot even try to peep ahead to the end of the sentence as it hasn't
been spoken yet.

It's not unique in this respect: Latin, by convention, tended to put the
verb at the end, and not just in subordinate clauses (all Gaul into
three parts divided is); and of course Yoda speaks in a not completely
dissimilar way.

[Chris J Dixon]

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Because German its
words in this to-us-strange order puts, interpretation either has to
translate in this to us slightly comic order, or to pause. It's worse
for spoken German (as in for example the EC), where the interpreter
cannot even try to peep ahead to the end of the sentence as it hasn't
been spoken yet.

There is a story of one such interpreter (why do so many use the
phrase "simultaneous translation" which is a contradiction in
terms?) who, during a long rambling speech was heard to mutter
"For God's sake give me a verb."

Chris

[Jenny M Benson]

Post by SODAM
That’s interesting. I wonder how long it would take before a second
language began to completely replace one’s native tongue? A linguistics
lecturer once told me that your mother tongue is the one that you dream in
and count in, if you are doing a job. Did you continue to do that,
Brritski?

I was only a bit less than a year in Switzerland but found it quite
difficult to revert to English when I came home. Uncharacteristically,
I became very quiet because I found that when I was in a group and
wanted to contribute to the conversation I would start to speak in
French and I thought people would think me terribly showy-off, so I just
kept quiet!

[BrritSki]

Post by Jenny M Benson

  That’s interesting. I wonder how long it would take before a second
language began to completely replace one’s native tongue? A linguistics
lecturer once told me that your mother tongue is the one that you dream in
and count in, if you are doing a job. Did you continue to do that,
Brritski?

I was only a bit less than a year in Switzerland but found it quite
difficult to revert to English when I came home.  Uncharacteristically,
I became very quiet because I found that when I was in a group and
wanted to contribute to the conversation I would start to speak in
French and I thought people would think me terribly showy-off, so I just
kept quiet!

Our children were both more fluent in French than English when we moved
back with them in 1985 when they were 7 and 5 and spoke English with a
delightful hint of a French accent. So we concentrated on getting them
to fit in and speak perfect English. Eldest only had a year of not
speaking French so when he moved to Middle School was still fluent and
with a midi accent. He didn't have to do any work in French so was very
lazy and didn't get a very good GCSE result. He doesn't speak it much
now, but still has a lovely accent and would pick it up again very
quickly in a Francophone country imo.
The youngest didn't speak French for 3 years and when she started at
Middle School it had all gone and in fact she did German as her GCSE
language. She has a good ear for language though and has picked up
Italian very well and speaks it fluently, far better than me, which s
just as well as her partners family who she sees all the time in the
village will not speak English even though at least one of them can to
some extent. Fair enough, it is their country and they do at least speak
Italian rather than the local dialect which is a weird mixture of French
and Italian and exactly the same as the Monegasque dialect, but
different from the closer by Sanremese. Go figure...
Our Italian AGCs are all being raised bilingually and have good English
accents (well at least the oldest 2) although Vivi (as does her Dad) has
a very Bedford accent. She will even say San Remo completely differently
in English and Italian which is hilarious.
They will have to keep up both languages which should be easy in Bedford
with 10K Italians !

[Kate B]

Post by BrritSki

Post by Jenny M Benson

  That’s interesting. I wonder how long it would take before a second
language began to completely replace one’s native tongue? A linguistics
lecturer once told me that your mother tongue is the one that you dream in
and count in, if you are doing a job. Did you continue to do that,
Brritski?

I was only a bit less than a year in Switzerland but found it quite
difficult to revert to English when I came home.
Uncharacteristically, I became very quiet because I found that when I
was in a group and wanted to contribute to the conversation I would
start to speak in French and I thought people would think me terribly
showy-off, so I just kept quiet!

Our children were both more fluent in French than English when we moved
back with them in 1985 when they were 7 and 5 and spoke English with a
delightful hint of a French accent. So we concentrated on getting them
to fit in and speak perfect English. Eldest only had a year of not
speaking French so when he moved to Middle School was still fluent and
with a midi accent. He didn't have to do any work in French so was very
lazy and didn't get a very good GCSE result. He doesn't speak it much
now, but still has a lovely accent and would pick it up again very
quickly in a Francophone country imo.
The youngest didn't speak French for 3 years and when she started at
Middle School it had all gone and in fact she did German as her GCSE
language. She has a good ear for language though and has picked up
Italian very well and speaks it fluently, far better than me, which s
just as well as her partners family who she sees all the time in the
village will not speak English even though at least one of them can to
some extent. Fair enough, it is their country and they do at least speak
Italian rather than the local dialect which is a weird mixture of French
and Italian and exactly the same as the Monegasque dialect, but
different from the closer by Sanremese. Go figure...
Our Italian AGCs are all being raised bilingually and have good English
accents (well at least the oldest 2) although Vivi (as does her Dad) has
a very Bedford accent. She will even say San Remo completely differently
in English and Italian which is hilarious.
They will have to keep up both languages which should be easy in Bedford
with 10K Italians !

There's a lot of polyglots in my extended family. My brother's two girls
were taken off to France at an early age by their estranged mother (sad
story, but all right now) and both are virtually bilingual, with a
strange tinge of Rochdale in their English, where they have never even
visited, from their mother. My husband's elder daughter married a Greek
and lives in Thessaloniki - all three of her daughters speak fluent
English and two of them also write it beautifully, perhaps more
beautifully than their English equivalents, since they've learnt their
vocabulary largely by reading. It's quite hard to keep up.

[Chris J Dixon]

Post by SODAM
What a beautiful house Britters, old boy! It would be easy to envy it, if
one were covetous.

+1

Post by SODAM
I hope you don’t find the uk too changed when you return. It seems to me
that generally people have become more judgmental and critical. Students
wanting to pull down statues and erase history is a symptom of this. We are
ever more thin-skinned and need warnings before a programme if it contains
violence, sex, swearing or “upsetting” content. One can even phone a
helpline if a programme proves too much to bear. What happened to the
stiff upper lip and free speech? Is it alive and well only on umra?
I partially blame social media, with which I have no truck.

Shouldn't we have had a Trigger Warning before such a strong
opinion? ;-)

Chris

[Sam Plusnet]

Post by Chris J Dixon

Post by SODAM
What a beautiful house Britters, old boy! It would be easy to envy it, if
one were covetous.

+1

Post by SODAM
I hope you don’t find the uk too changed when you return. It seems to me
that generally people have become more judgmental and critical. Students
wanting to pull down statues and erase history is a symptom of this. We are
ever more thin-skinned and need warnings before a programme if it contains
violence, sex, swearing or “upsetting” content. One can even phone a
helpline if a programme proves too much to bear. What happened to the
stiff upper lip and free speech? Is it alive and well only on umra?
I partially blame social media, with which I have no truck.

Shouldn't we have had a Trigger Warning before such a strong
opinion? ;-)

Let's stick to TA, leave Only Fools & Horses out of it.

[BrritSki]

Post by Sam Plusnet

Post by Chris J Dixon

Post by SODAM
What a beautiful house Britters, old boy! It would be easy to envy it, if
one were covetous.

+1

Post by SODAM
I hope you don’t find the uk too changed when you return. It seems to me
that generally people have become more judgmental and critical. Students
wanting to pull down statues and erase history is a symptom of this. We are
ever more thin-skinned and need warnings before a programme if it contains
violence, sex, swearing or “upsetting” content. One can even phone a
helpline if a programme proves too much to bear.  What happened to the
stiff upper lip and free speech? Is it alive and well only on umra?
I partially blame social media, with which I have no truck.

Shouldn't we have had a Trigger Warning before such a strong
opinion?   ;-)

Let's stick to TA, leave Only Fools & Horses out of it.

A new chapter demands a new broom.

[vk]

Post by BrritSki

Post by Sam Plusnet

Post by Chris J Dixon

Post by SODAM
What a beautiful house Britters, old boy! It would be easy to envy it, if
one were covetous.

+1

Post by SODAM
I hope you don’t find the uk too changed when you return. It seems to me
that generally people have become more judgmental and critical. Students
wanting to pull down statues and erase history is a symptom of this. We are
ever more thin-skinned and need warnings before a programme if it contains
violence, sex, swearing or “upsetting” content. One can even phone a
helpline if a programme proves too much to bear.  What happened to the
stiff upper lip and free speech? Is it alive and well only on umra?
I partially blame social media, with which I have no truck.

Shouldn't we have had a Trigger Warning before such a strong
opinion?   ;-)

Let's stick to TA, leave Only Fools & Horses out of it.

A new chapter demands a new broom.

Alright Dave?

[BrritSki]

Post by vk

Post by BrritSki

Post by Sam Plusnet

Post by Chris J Dixon

Post by SODAM
What a beautiful house Britters, old boy! It would be easy to envy it, if
one were covetous.

+1

Post by SODAM
I hope you don’t find the uk too changed when you return. It seems to me
that generally people have become more judgmental and critical. Students
wanting to pull down statues and erase history is a symptom of this. We are
ever more thin-skinned and need warnings before a programme if it contains
violence, sex, swearing or “upsetting” content. One can even phone a
helpline if a programme proves too much to bear.  What happened to the
stiff upper lip and free speech? Is it alive and well only on umra?
I partially blame social media, with which I have no truck.

Shouldn't we have had a Trigger Warning before such a strong
opinion?   ;-)

Let's stick to TA, leave Only Fools & Horses out of it.

A new chapter demands a new broom.

Alright Dave?

:)