Discussion:
Lynda & Heart of Darkness
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Btms
2017-09-05 20:32:54 UTC
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It is a short book. Readable in a day. The horror, horror comes at the
end.

None of the above is congruent with what Lynda is saying to Roy. I don't
believe she has read it at all. She is fibbing!
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2017-09-06 21:59:55 UTC
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Post by Btms
It is a short book. Readable in a day. The horror, horror comes at the
end.
Assuming this is Conrad's one of that title, it was one of my books for
Eng. Lit. O level.

I hated it with a vengeance: have definitely never been tempted to go
anywhere near anything Conrad since.
Post by Btms
None of the above is congruent with what Lynda is saying to Roy. I don't
believe she has read it at all. She is fibbing!
(I always think triangles.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"If even one person" arguments allow the perfect to become the enemy of the
good, and thus they tend to cause more harm than good.
- Jimmy Akins quoted by Scott Adams, 2015-5-5
Vicky
2017-09-07 08:32:06 UTC
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On Wed, 6 Sep 2017 22:59:55 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Assuming this is Conrad's one of that title, it was one of my books for
Eng. Lit. O level.
I hated it with a vengeance: have definitely never been tempted to go
anywhere near anything Conrad since.
MTAAW.

I've managed to forget what it was about, except it was unpleasant and
about Africa. Maybe Lynda has managed to forget as she is reading
it.
--
Vicky
Btms
2017-09-08 06:25:32 UTC
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Post by Vicky
On Wed, 6 Sep 2017 22:59:55 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Assuming this is Conrad's one of that title, it was one of my books for
Eng. Lit. O level.
I hated it with a vengeance: have definitely never been tempted to go
anywhere near anything Conrad since.
MTAAW.
I've managed to forget what it was about, except it was unpleasant and
about Africa. Maybe Lynda has managed to forget as she is reading
it.
I have read all/most of Conrad as I wrote a dissertation on him for my
first degree. I hated him too but my tutor was whatever the vip of the
Conrad Society in UK is called. The other reason is that his books are
short. In my mature years I have come to recognise his significance and
the fact I was awarded a First probably seduced me into thinking he was ok.
--
BTMS - Equine Advisor Extraordinaire.
Nick Odell
2017-09-07 08:49:59 UTC
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On Wed, 6 Sep 2017 22:59:55 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Btms
It is a short book. Readable in a day. The horror, horror comes at the
end.
Assuming this is Conrad's one of that title, it was one of my books for
Eng. Lit. O level.
I hated it with a vengeance: have definitely never been tempted to go
anywhere near anything Conrad since.
I know the feeling: I'm a bit like that about Charles Dickens for
exactly the same reasons.

But, if the stories are to be believed, we had it much better than the
GCSE students of today. At least we were forced to read and loathe a
whole book: I understand nowadays students only read the parts they
are going to be examined on - or even, possibly, somebody else's
synopsis.

Back to Conrad: a South-American friend suggested that, if I really
wanted to understand the modern South-American condition, I ought to
read "Nostromo." I did and even though he wrote it more than a hundred
years ago he'd captured the essence and it all made sense. It still
astonishes me that a Polish writer is not only writing in his second
language but managing to peel away the veneers of yet a third culture
in the process.

Nick
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2017-09-07 12:02:06 UTC
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Post by Vicky
On Wed, 6 Sep 2017 22:59:55 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Btms
It is a short book. Readable in a day. The horror, horror comes at the
end.
Assuming this is Conrad's one of that title, it was one of my books for
Eng. Lit. O level.
I hated it with a vengeance: have definitely never been tempted to go
anywhere near anything Conrad since.
I know the feeling: I'm a bit like that about Charles Dickens for
exactly the same reasons.
(I've aired my similar views on old Shaksper frequently here - though I
don't actually loathe him, I've actually enjoyed some of his plays when
well done [as the BBC tend to do], just don't think he deserves his
above-all-others pedestal.)
Post by Vicky
But, if the stories are to be believed, we had it much better than the
GCSE students of today. At least we were forced to read
and loathe a
whole book: I understand nowadays students only read the parts they
are going to be examined on - or even, possibly, somebody else's
synopsis.
Hmm. Are these stories really true? When I did it, I'm pretty sure we
didn't _know_ which bits we were going to be examined on.
Post by Vicky
Back to Conrad: a South-American friend suggested that, if I really
wanted to understand the modern South-American condition, I ought to
read "Nostromo." I did and even though he wrote it more than a hundred
To me, always the freight spaceship in "Alien" (-:; quite probably named
after the Conrad original, which I haven't read.
Post by Vicky
years ago he'd captured the essence and it all made sense. It still
astonishes me that a Polish writer is not only writing in his second
language but managing to peel away the veneers of yet a third culture
in the process.
Nick
(I didn't know Conrad was Polish; it doesn't sound like a Polish name.)
From the coverage he gets, and even allowing for the emperor's-clothes
alias Shakespeare effect, I suspect he was a good writer. Maybe I just
need a good dramatisation of one of his works to convert me. Though if
it's about slavery (as I presume HoD was from earlier parts of this
thread, though I didn't remember that from my infliction forty-odd years
ago), it's not a subject I'd want to read about anyway (like many
things, it's something I know was indescribably nasty but as I get older
I don't want - or need - reminding of that fact).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

... the pleasure of the mind is an amazing thing. My life has been driven by
the satisfaction of curiosity. - Jeremy Paxman (being interviewed by Anne
Widdecombe), Radio Times, 2-8 July 2011.
Nick Odell
2017-09-07 17:08:44 UTC
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On Thu, 7 Sep 2017 13:02:06 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Vicky
On Wed, 6 Sep 2017 22:59:55 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Btms
It is a short book. Readable in a day. The horror, horror comes at the
end.
Assuming this is Conrad's one of that title, it was one of my books for
Eng. Lit. O level.
I hated it with a vengeance: have definitely never been tempted to go
anywhere near anything Conrad since.
I know the feeling: I'm a bit like that about Charles Dickens for
exactly the same reasons.
(I've aired my similar views on old Shaksper frequently here - though I
don't actually loathe him, I've actually enjoyed some of his plays when
well done [as the BBC tend to do], just don't think he deserves his
above-all-others pedestal.)
Post by Vicky
But, if the stories are to be believed, we had it much better than the
GCSE students of today. At least we were forced to read
and loathe a
whole book: I understand nowadays students only read the parts they
are going to be examined on - or even, possibly, somebody else's
synopsis.
Hmm. Are these stories really true? When I did it, I'm pretty sure we
didn't _know_ which bits we were going to be examined on.
Post by Vicky
Back to Conrad: a South-American friend suggested that, if I really
wanted to understand the modern South-American condition, I ought to
read "Nostromo." I did and even though he wrote it more than a hundred
To me, always the freight spaceship in "Alien" (-:; quite probably named
after the Conrad original, which I haven't read.
Also the "Sulaco"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Vicky
years ago he'd captured the essence and it all made sense. It still
astonishes me that a Polish writer is not only writing in his second
language but managing to peel away the veneers of yet a third culture
in the process.
Nick
(I didn't know Conrad was Polish; it doesn't sound like a Polish name.)
Would Josef Teodor Konrad Korzeniowski sound a little more
East-European?
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
From the coverage he gets, and even allowing for the emperor's-clothes
alias Shakespeare effect, I suspect he was a good writer. Maybe I just
need a good dramatisation of one of his works to convert me.
Erme - isn't that where we came in?
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Though if
it's about slavery (as I presume HoD was from earlier parts of this
thread, though I didn't remember that from my infliction forty-odd years
ago), it's not a subject I'd want to read about anyway (like many
things, it's something I know was indescribably nasty but as I get older
I don't want - or need - reminding of that fact).
Nick
Vicky
2017-09-07 12:32:21 UTC
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On Thu, 07 Sep 2017 09:49:59 +0100, Nick Odell
Post by Vicky
On Wed, 6 Sep 2017 22:59:55 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Btms
It is a short book. Readable in a day. The horror, horror comes at the
end.
Assuming this is Conrad's one of that title, it was one of my books for
Eng. Lit. O level.
I hated it with a vengeance: have definitely never been tempted to go
anywhere near anything Conrad since.
I know the feeling: I'm a bit like that about Charles Dickens for
exactly the same reasons.
Oh, I don't like Dickens either :). Except A Tale of Two Cities.
Miserable books.
--
Vicky
Fenny
2017-09-07 22:01:28 UTC
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Post by Vicky
Oh, I don't like Dickens either :). Except A Tale of Two Cities.
Miserable books.
Can't stand the books. You can tell he was paid by the word -
possibly double if the word was "fog"! But I've enjoyed a lot of the
BBC adaptations more than I expected to over the years.
--
Fenny
John Ashby
2017-09-08 04:44:44 UTC
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Post by Vicky
On Wed, 6 Sep 2017 22:59:55 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Btms
It is a short book. Readable in a day. The horror, horror comes at the
end.
Assuming this is Conrad's one of that title, it was one of my books for
Eng. Lit. O level.
I hated it with a vengeance: have definitely never been tempted to go
anywhere near anything Conrad since.
I know the feeling: I'm a bit like that about Charles Dickens for
exactly the same reasons.
But, if the stories are to be believed, we had it much better than the
GCSE students of today. At least we were forced to read and loathe a
whole book: I understand nowadays students only read the parts they
are going to be examined on - or even, possibly, somebody else's
synopsis.
The newly-turned 16 yr old has to read all his set texts in their
entirety - currently struggling his way through Great Expectations (not
Grate Expectations by Charles Dikkens with two k's, the well-known Dutch
author).

john
BrritSki
2017-09-08 06:46:53 UTC
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Post by John Ashby
Post by Vicky
On Wed, 6 Sep 2017 22:59:55 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
It is a short book.  Readable in a day.  The horror, horror comes at
the
end.
Assuming this is Conrad's one of that title, it was one of my books for
Eng. Lit. O level.
I hated it with a vengeance: have definitely never been tempted to go
anywhere near anything Conrad since.
I know the feeling: I'm a bit like that about Charles Dickens for
exactly the same reasons.
But, if the stories are to be believed, we had it much better than the
GCSE students of today. At least we were forced to read and loathe a
whole book: I understand nowadays students only read the parts they
are going to be examined on - or even, possibly, somebody else's
synopsis.
The newly-turned 16 yr old has to read all his set texts in their
entirety - currently struggling his way through Great Expectations (not
Grate Expectations by Charles Dikkens with two k's, the well-known Dutch
author).
and fireplace expert. Personally I prefer Great Expectorations by
Charles Coughens.
Mike
2017-09-08 09:42:32 UTC
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Post by John Ashby
Post by Vicky
On Wed, 6 Sep 2017 22:59:55 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Btms
It is a short book. Readable in a day. The horror, horror comes at the
end.
Assuming this is Conrad's one of that title, it was one of my books for
Eng. Lit. O level.
I hated it with a vengeance: have definitely never been tempted to go
anywhere near anything Conrad since.
I know the feeling: I'm a bit like that about Charles Dickens for
exactly the same reasons.
But, if the stories are to be believed, we had it much better than the
GCSE students of today. At least we were forced to read and loathe a
whole book: I understand nowadays students only read the parts they
are going to be examined on - or even, possibly, somebody else's
synopsis.
The newly-turned 16 yr old has to read all his set texts in their
entirety - currently struggling his way through Great Expectations (not
Grate Expectations by Charles Dikkens with two k's, the well-known Dutch
author).
john
Or even Darles Chicken.
--
Toodle Pip
Penny
2017-09-08 10:24:24 UTC
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On Fri, 8 Sep 2017 05:44:44 +0100, John Ashby <***@yahoo.com>
scrawled in the dust...
Post by John Ashby
The newly-turned 16 yr old has to read all his set texts in their
entirety - currently struggling his way through Great Expectations (not
Grate Expectations by Charles Dikkens with two k's, the well-known Dutch
author).
I 'did' GE for O level. I never did finish reading the book but we had been
shown the John Mills film which helped and I'd bought and read the 'notes'
book.

We also had to read some turgid verse ^W^W epic poems. I'd impressed my
teacher by recognising one of them as being parodied by Lewis Carroll in
Alice in Wonderland but sadly there was no question in the exam where I
could show off this knowledge. A great shame as I knew the white knight's
version by heart.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Fenny
2017-09-08 17:32:14 UTC
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Post by John Ashby
currently struggling his way through Great Expectations
He has my sympathies. I read the first 20 chapters over October half
term in 1979 and refused to touch the book ever again. Ma didn't have
any objections to my rejection of it.

Even watching the film (the really old version) didn't make it any
better, other than we got a morning off school to go into town and see
it.
--
Fenny
Sally Thompson
2017-09-08 18:58:22 UTC
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Post by Fenny
Post by John Ashby
currently struggling his way through Great Expectations
He has my sympathies. I read the first 20 chapters over October half
term in 1979 and refused to touch the book ever again. Ma didn't have
any objections to my rejection of it.
Even watching the film (the really old version) didn't make it any
better, other than we got a morning off school to go into town and see
it.
I think it's time to come clean and declare that I am obviously AOU since I
love Dickens. I not only have all the print books, but have downloaded the
e-books too. If umrats don't like his fiction they might like The
Uncommercial Traveller or Pictures From Italy. I leave it to those
interested to google their subject matter, though the second one is pretty
obvious.
--
Sally in Shropshire, UK
steveski
2017-09-08 19:08:41 UTC
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On Fri, 08 Sep 2017 18:58:22 +0000, Sally Thompson wrote:

[]
Post by Sally Thompson
I think it's time to come clean and declare that I am obviously AOU
since I love Dickens.
Me too, but I haven't been to one for ages.
--
Steveski
vk
2017-09-08 19:58:44 UTC
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Post by Sally Thompson
Post by Fenny
Post by John Ashby
currently struggling his way through Great Expectations
He has my sympathies. I read the first 20 chapters over October half
term in 1979 and refused to touch the book ever again. Ma didn't have
any objections to my rejection of it.
Even watching the film (the really old version) didn't make it any
better, other than we got a morning off school to go into town and see
it.
I think it's time to come clean and declare that I am obviously AOU since I
love Dickens.
<snip> YANAOU
Vicky
2017-09-08 20:20:16 UTC
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On 8 Sep 2017 18:58:22 GMT, Sally Thompson
Post by Sally Thompson
Post by Fenny
Post by John Ashby
currently struggling his way through Great Expectations
He has my sympathies. I read the first 20 chapters over October half
term in 1979 and refused to touch the book ever again. Ma didn't have
any objections to my rejection of it.
Even watching the film (the really old version) didn't make it any
better, other than we got a morning off school to go into town and see
it.
I think it's time to come clean and declare that I am obviously AOU since I
love Dickens. I not only have all the print books, but have downloaded the
e-books too. If umrats don't like his fiction they might like The
Uncommercial Traveller or Pictures From Italy. I leave it to those
interested to google their subject matter, though the second one is pretty
obvious.
Well, although I can't stand Dickens, B loves his books and can
identify bits in quizzes.
--
Vicky
Sam Plusnet
2017-09-09 22:50:36 UTC
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Post by Vicky
On 8 Sep 2017 18:58:22 GMT, Sally Thompson
Post by Sally Thompson
Post by Fenny
Post by John Ashby
currently struggling his way through Great Expectations
He has my sympathies. I read the first 20 chapters over October half
term in 1979 and refused to touch the book ever again. Ma didn't have
any objections to my rejection of it.
Even watching the film (the really old version) didn't make it any
better, other than we got a morning off school to go into town and see
it.
I think it's time to come clean and declare that I am obviously AOU since I
love Dickens. I not only have all the print books, but have downloaded the
e-books too. If umrats don't like his fiction they might like The
Uncommercial Traveller or Pictures From Italy. I leave it to those
interested to google their subject matter, though the second one is pretty
obvious.
Well, although I can't stand Dickens, B loves his books and can
identify bits in quizzes.
I did like the Dickens 'contribution' to the "50 things that made the
modern economy" programme on Intellectual Property.

Dickens was angry that the US didn't have any laws which protected his
Intellectual Property so that people could publish all his works -
without him receiving a single penny.

Which of course sounds very much like US complaints about China today.
--
Sam
Btms
2017-09-08 06:25:33 UTC
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Post by Vicky
On Wed, 6 Sep 2017 22:59:55 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Btms
It is a short book. Readable in a day. The horror, horror comes at the
end.
Assuming this is Conrad's one of that title, it was one of my books for
Eng. Lit. O level.
I hated it with a vengeance: have definitely never been tempted to go
anywhere near anything Conrad since.
I know the feeling: I'm a bit like that about Charles Dickens for
exactly the same reasons.
But, if the stories are to be believed, we had it much better than the
GCSE students of today. At least we were forced to read and loathe a
whole book: I understand nowadays students only read the parts they
are going to be examined on - or even, possibly, somebody else's
synopsis.
Back to Conrad: a South-American friend suggested that, if I really
wanted to understand the modern South-American condition, I ought to
read "Nostromo." I did and even though he wrote it more than a hundred
years ago he'd captured the essence and it all made sense. It still
astonishes me that a Polish writer is not only writing in his second
language but managing to peel away the veneers of yet a third culture
in the process.
Nick
I think it is received thinking that this outsider position on Conrad is
what makes his novels so different and full of insight. I write with some
mild academic awareness and not my own opinion. You are right on.
--
BTMS - Equine Advisor Extraordinaire.
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2017-09-11 00:52:04 UTC
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In message <***@4ax.com>, Vicky
<***@gmail.com> writes:
[]
Post by Vicky
Oh, I don't like Dickens either :). Except A Tale of Two Cities.
Miserable books.
I'm afraid that one always reminds me of the Monty Python sketch, which
includes its Spoonerised version, as well as Ethel the Aardvark goes
quantity surveying.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

As individuals, politicians are usually quite charming, so it is quite hard to
dislike them, but in most cases, it is worth making the effort.
- Mark Williams (UMRA), 2013-4-26
Btms
2017-09-11 07:46:10 UTC
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Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by Vicky
Oh, I don't like Dickens either :). Except A Tale of Two Cities.
Miserable books.
I'm afraid that one always reminds me of the Monty Python sketch, which
includes its Spoonerised version, as well as Ethel the Aardvark goes
quantity surveying.
I always think the problem with Dickens is that his nooks were serials and
when published as a whole work, they drone on a bit. Hard Times is a good
read and short.
--
BTMS - Equine Advisor Extraordinaire.
Penny
2017-09-11 09:35:53 UTC
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On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 07:46:10 -0000 (UTC), Btms <***@thetames.me.uk>
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Btms
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by Vicky
Oh, I don't like Dickens either :). Except A Tale of Two Cities.
Miserable books.
I'm afraid that one always reminds me of the Monty Python sketch, which
includes its Spoonerised version, as well as Ethel the Aardvark goes
quantity surveying.
I always think the problem with Dickens is that his nooks were serials and
when published as a whole work, they drone on a bit. Hard Times is a good
read and short.
Yep, like Hardy, written as serials, too much waffle. The stories aren't
bad (I suppose) but work better as the basis for films IMHO.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Mike
2017-09-11 12:41:05 UTC
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Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Btms
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by Vicky
Oh, I don't like Dickens either :). Except A Tale of Two Cities.
Miserable books.
I'm afraid that one always reminds me of the Monty Python sketch, which
includes its Spoonerised version, as well as Ethel the Aardvark goes
quantity surveying.
I always think the problem with Dickens is that his nooks were serials and
when published as a whole work, they drone on a bit. Hard Times is a good
read and short.
Yep, like Hardy, written as serials, too much waffle. The stories aren't
bad (I suppose) but work better as the basis for films IMHO.
Rather like the T.V. Food/health/wise shopping programmes that repeat huge
chunks 'after the break' - they have so many breaks, I suspect that, sans
breaks and repeats, a 60 minute time slot has less than tha 30 mins of
actual material.
--
Toodle Pip
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