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OT: Travel rant #1
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BrritSki
2018-08-21 10:38:25 UTC
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Bloomin' foreign trains. Anyone who says that UK trains are the worst
have never travelled on local Italian and French trains.

On Sunday we'd booked the "fast" Thello train from Sanremo to Nice. We
turned up at the station in plenty of time, only to see an announcement
of a 15' delay. OK, not too bad we thought and had a coffee before
heading for the platform which is half a mile away, all underground.
Thankfully this time the travellators were working.

By the time the train arrived, it was 15' late, but we still had time
for our connection, and enjoyed the trip along the coast once we'd
emerged from under Sanremo. But then we stopped in Ventimiglia. And
waited. And waited some more. And then the A/C went off which was not
pleasant in the mid 30's. A sign said a 60' delay. Eventually a girl in
a uniform turned up (the only staff member we saw in the whole trip and
our tickets weren't checked at all anywhere) and explained that they
were "changing the locomotive". No idea if ours was broken or if we had
to swap with the Thello train heading in the other direction and also
stopped, so that no Italian engine was allowed on French track.

Eventually we got A/C back and then moved, only to have an unscheduled
stop at Menton where the Gesta^W CRS to throw off illegal immigrants.
Schengen anyone ?

During all these delays it was impossible to find any online source of
information that would tell us what was going on or what our options
were for alternative trains as we had now missed our connection to
Antibes. Even Trainline EU was silent on the matter and anything that
showed a schedule would only show trains that were more than 2 hours
into the future despite what the heading said and despite clicking on
"earlier trains".

Eventualy we arrived at Nice 90 minutes late. Nobody on the platform to
say where got our next train from, so we climbed the stairs to the
platform linking bridge where there was a display showing "Grasse
17.27", but no information at all about where it stopped. We went down
to the platform indicated, but again no info on stops, so we had to go
all the way back upstairs to the main entrance to find a display that
showed this was the train we wanted and that it was 15 minutes late too.

So 4 hours to do a trip that takes 1 by car. No wonder the trains are
empty. The TGV may be great, but the Freccia (Arrows) in Italy are no
better than our long distance trains and the local services are appalling.
Btms
2018-08-21 11:19:15 UTC
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Post by BrritSki
Bloomin' foreign trains. Anyone who says that UK trains are the worst
have never travelled on local Italian and French trains.
On Sunday we'd booked the "fast" Thello train from Sanremo to Nice. We
turned up at the station in plenty of time, only to see an announcement
of a 15' delay. OK, not too bad we thought and had a coffee before
heading for the platform which is half a mile away, all underground.
Thankfully this time the travellators were working.
By the time the train arrived, it was 15' late, but we still had time
for our connection, and enjoyed the trip along the coast once we'd
emerged from under Sanremo. But then we stopped in Ventimiglia. And
waited. And waited some more. And then the A/C went off which was not
pleasant in the mid 30's. A sign said a 60' delay. Eventually a girl in
a uniform turned up (the only staff member we saw in the whole trip and
our tickets weren't checked at all anywhere) and explained that they
were "changing the locomotive". No idea if ours was broken or if we had
to swap with the Thello train heading in the other direction and also
stopped, so that no Italian engine was allowed on French track.
Eventually we got A/C back and then moved, only to have an unscheduled
stop at Menton where the Gesta^W CRS to throw off illegal immigrants.
Schengen anyone ?
During all these delays it was impossible to find any online source of
information that would tell us what was going on or what our options
were for alternative trains as we had now missed our connection to
Antibes. Even Trainline EU was silent on the matter and anything that
showed a schedule would only show trains that were more than 2 hours
into the future despite what the heading said and despite clicking on
"earlier trains".
Eventualy we arrived at Nice 90 minutes late. Nobody on the platform to
say where got our next train from, so we climbed the stairs to the
platform linking bridge where there was a display showing "Grasse
17.27", but no information at all about where it stopped. We went down
to the platform indicated, but again no info on stops, so we had to go
all the way back upstairs to the main entrance to find a display that
showed this was the train we wanted and that it was 15 minutes late too.
So 4 hours to do a trip that takes 1 by car. No wonder the trains are
empty. The TGV may be great, but the Freccia (Arrows) in Italy are no
better than our long distance trains and the local services are appalling.
I have an uneasy feeling that Bedford might be in the great time tabling
ferrago catchment. Fingers crossed thatit isn ‘t.
--
BTMS - Equine Advisor Extraordinaire.
Jim Easterbrook
2018-08-21 11:26:23 UTC
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Post by BrritSki
Bloomin' foreign trains. Anyone who says that UK trains are the worst
have never travelled on local Italian and French trains.
[snip tale of woe]

Doesn't Italy have populist politicians who can make the trains run on
time?
--
Jim <http://www.jim-easterbrook.me.uk/>
1959/1985? M B+ G+ A L- I- S- P-- CH0(p) Ar++ T+ H0 Q--- Sh0
Clive Arthur
2018-08-21 11:40:34 UTC
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Post by Jim Easterbrook
Post by BrritSki
Bloomin' foreign trains. Anyone who says that UK trains are the worst
have never travelled on local Italian and French trains.
[snip tale of woe]
Doesn't Italy have populist politicians who can make the trains run on
time?
<old joke>
During the war the Italians experimented with bio-diesel because of the
oil shortage, Their climate and expertise is naturally suited to the
growing of oily herbs, so this is what they used.

There was little success with oregano oil in the buses. But Mussolini...

</old joke>

Cheers
--
Clive
BrritSki
2018-08-21 15:07:11 UTC
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Post by Jim Easterbrook
Post by BrritSki
Bloomin' foreign trains. Anyone who says that UK trains are the worst
have never travelled on local Italian and French trains.
[snip tale of woe]
Doesn't Italy have populist politicians who can make the trains run on
time?
Yes to the first bit, but not the second bit - yet.
LFS
2018-08-22 07:34:51 UTC
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Post by BrritSki
Bloomin' foreign trains. Anyone who says that UK trains are the worst
have never travelled on local Italian and French trains.
On Sunday we'd booked the "fast" Thello train from Sanremo to Nice.
<snip sad travel story>

I admire anyone anywhere who attempts to travel by train on a Sunday.
--
Laura (emulate St George for email)
Btms
2018-08-22 12:59:43 UTC
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Post by LFS
Post by BrritSki
Bloomin' foreign trains. Anyone who says that UK trains are the worst
have never travelled on local Italian and French trains.
On Sunday we'd booked the "fast" Thello train from Sanremo to Nice.
<snip sad travel story>
I admire anyone anywhere who attempts to travel by train on a Sunday.
Yes..a triumph of hope over experience.
--
BTMS - Equine Advisor Extraordinaire.
Mike
2018-08-22 13:13:38 UTC
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Post by Btms
Post by LFS
Post by BrritSki
Bloomin' foreign trains. Anyone who says that UK trains are the worst
have never travelled on local Italian and French trains.
On Sunday we'd booked the "fast" Thello train from Sanremo to Nice.
<snip sad travel story>
I admire anyone anywhere who attempts to travel by train on a Sunday.
Yes..a triumph of hope over experience.
It is better to have bought a ticket than to travel....
--
Toodle Pip
Rosalainn nic Thearach
2018-08-23 12:32:55 UTC
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Post by Btms
Post by LFS
Post by BrritSki
Bloomin' foreign trains. Anyone who says that UK trains are the worst
have never travelled on local Italian and French trains.
On Sunday we'd booked the "fast" Thello train from Sanremo to Nice.
<snip sad travel story>
I admire anyone anywhere who attempts to travel by train on a Sunday.
Yes..a triumph of hope over experience.
Ah, the joys of Umra Sundays in Cheltenham. And returning to Reading
via Newport where bunch of football fans got on so we had to stand in
the lobby packed like ladies of Cagliari.

RnT
Nick Odell
2018-08-23 09:16:43 UTC
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Post by LFS
Post by BrritSki
Bloomin' foreign trains. Anyone who says that UK trains are the worst
have never travelled on local Italian and French trains.
On Sunday we'd booked the "fast" Thello train from Sanremo to Nice.
<snip sad travel story>
I admire anyone anywhere who attempts to travel by train on a Sunday.
It might prove different in the capital (where Liliana & I are now and
where we have trips planned for all the week) but I would add buses as well.

On Sundays, there are special "Dales Bus" services up in t' frozen
north. There's even one that will get to a nice walking spot (Malham
Cove, since you asked) with time to do a few things before it comes back
again. But it leaves from a neighbouring town before any bus service
from our town can reach it.

I consider Sundays as lost days from a public transport perspective.

Nick
Penny
2018-08-23 10:23:46 UTC
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On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 10:16:43 +0100, Nick Odell
Post by Nick Odell
On Sundays, there are special "Dales Bus" services up in t' frozen
north. There's even one that will get to a nice walking spot (Malham
Cove, since you asked) with time to do a few things before it comes back
again. But it leaves from a neighbouring town before any bus service
from our town can reach it.
The Welsh government launched a pilot free weekend bus scheme last year. I
think the idea was to get folk out of the cities and into the countryside.

The route from here in Newtown went to Cardiff (via Brecon) but was of
little use for anyone wanting to visit Cardiff from Newtown unless you
planned to stay in Cardiff for the week. I think only one route, Carmarthen
to Aberystwyth, survives and I don't think it's free.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Jenny M Benson
2018-08-23 12:26:00 UTC
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Post by Penny
The Welsh government launched a pilot free weekend bus scheme last year. I
think the idea was to get folk out of the cities and into the countryside.
The route from here in Newtown went to Cardiff (via Brecon) but was of
little use for anyone wanting to visit Cardiff from Newtown unless you
planned to stay in Cardiff for the week. I think only one route, Carmarthen
to Aberystwyth, survives and I don't think it's free.
When I lived in Runty Weston I made great and frequent use of the
Coastliner service which went up and down the coast of Norfolk several
times on a Sunday. I was able to get on outside my flat, ride for a
while, get off and do/see something interesting, then get on another and
go a bit further, do/see more interestingness and then return home.

When I first came to Wxm there was something similar (except it wasn't
confined to the coast) but it wasn't possible to use it in the same way.
I think I worked out I could see Moel Fammau for about 10 minutes or
spend all day there, which I didn't want to do. I never used that bus
and don't know if the service still exists.
--
Jenny M Benson
http://jennygenes.blogspot.co.uk/
John Ashby
2018-08-23 13:16:40 UTC
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Post by Penny
On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 10:16:43 +0100, Nick Odell
Post by Nick Odell
On Sundays, there are special "Dales Bus" services up in t' frozen
north. There's even one that will get to a nice walking spot (Malham
Cove, since you asked) with time to do a few things before it comes back
again. But it leaves from a neighbouring town before any bus service
from our town can reach it.
The Welsh government launched a pilot free weekend bus scheme last year. I
think the idea was to get folk out of the cities and into the countryside.
I originally parsed that as a pilot-free weekend bus scheme, and was
somewhat perturbed.

A good way of getting folk out of the cities and them not coming back,
perhaps.

john
Mike
2018-08-23 13:30:32 UTC
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Post by John Ashby
Post by Penny
On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 10:16:43 +0100, Nick Odell
Post by Nick Odell
On Sundays, there are special "Dales Bus" services up in t' frozen
north. There's even one that will get to a nice walking spot (Malham
Cove, since you asked) with time to do a few things before it comes back
again. But it leaves from a neighbouring town before any bus service
from our town can reach it.
The Welsh government launched a pilot free weekend bus scheme last year. I
think the idea was to get folk out of the cities and into the countryside.
I originally parsed that as a pilot-free weekend bus scheme, and was
somewhat perturbed.
A good way of getting folk out of the cities and them not coming back,
perhaps.
john
Oh Arr, Jim m’lad, where’s your free pass, shows it me smartish or mind me
‘ook in yer eyes!
--
Toodle Pip
Mike
2018-08-23 13:31:43 UTC
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Post by Mike
Post by John Ashby
Post by Penny
On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 10:16:43 +0100, Nick Odell
Post by Nick Odell
On Sundays, there are special "Dales Bus" services up in t' frozen
north. There's even one that will get to a nice walking spot (Malham
Cove, since you asked) with time to do a few things before it comes back
again. But it leaves from a neighbouring town before any bus service
from our town can reach it.
The Welsh government launched a pilot free weekend bus scheme last year. I
think the idea was to get folk out of the cities and into the countryside.
I originally parsed that as a pilot-free weekend bus scheme, and was
somewhat perturbed.
A good way of getting folk out of the cities and them not coming back,
perhaps.
john
Oh Arr, Jim m’lad, where’s your free pass, shows it me smartish or mind me
‘ook in yer eyes!
Oh! Pilot.... as you were....
--
Toodle Pip
BrritSki
2018-08-23 14:21:06 UTC
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Post by John Ashby
Post by Penny
On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 10:16:43 +0100, Nick Odell
Post by Nick Odell
On Sundays, there are special "Dales Bus" services up in t' frozen
north. There's even one that will get to a nice walking spot (Malham
Cove, since you asked) with time to do a few things before it comes back
again. But it leaves from a neighbouring town before any bus service
from our town can reach it.
The Welsh government launched a pilot free weekend bus scheme last
year.  I
think the idea was to get folk out of the cities and into the
countryside.
I originally parsed that as a pilot-free weekend bus scheme, and was
somewhat perturbed.
Pilot-free whales ?
Mike
2018-08-23 14:25:26 UTC
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Post by BrritSki
Post by John Ashby
Post by Penny
On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 10:16:43 +0100, Nick Odell
Post by Nick Odell
On Sundays, there are special "Dales Bus" services up in t' frozen
north. There's even one that will get to a nice walking spot (Malham
Cove, since you asked) with time to do a few things before it comes back
again. But it leaves from a neighbouring town before any bus service
from our town can reach it.
The Welsh government launched a pilot free weekend bus scheme last
year.  I
think the idea was to get folk out of the cities and into the countryside.
I originally parsed that as a pilot-free weekend bus scheme, and was
somewhat perturbed.
Pilot-free whales ?
That would be something to write home aspout!
--
Toodle Pip
Paul Herber
2018-08-23 14:40:09 UTC
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Post by Mike
Post by BrritSki
Post by John Ashby
Post by Penny
On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 10:16:43 +0100, Nick Odell
Post by Nick Odell
On Sundays, there are special "Dales Bus" services up in t' frozen
north. There's even one that will get to a nice walking spot (Malham
Cove, since you asked) with time to do a few things before it comes back
again. But it leaves from a neighbouring town before any bus service
from our town can reach it.
The Welsh government launched a pilot free weekend bus scheme last
year.  I
think the idea was to get folk out of the cities and into the countryside.
I originally parsed that as a pilot-free weekend bus scheme, and was
somewhat perturbed.
Pilot-free whales ?
That would be something to write home aspout!
was that pun just a fluke?
--
Regards, Paul Herber
http://www.paulherber.co.uk/
Mike
2018-08-23 14:50:40 UTC
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Post by Paul Herber
Post by Mike
Post by BrritSki
Post by John Ashby
Post by Penny
On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 10:16:43 +0100, Nick Odell
Post by Nick Odell
On Sundays, there are special "Dales Bus" services up in t' frozen
north. There's even one that will get to a nice walking spot (Malham
Cove, since you asked) with time to do a few things before it comes back
again. But it leaves from a neighbouring town before any bus service
from our town can reach it.
The Welsh government launched a pilot free weekend bus scheme last
year.  I
think the idea was to get folk out of the cities and into the countryside.
I originally parsed that as a pilot-free weekend bus scheme, and was
somewhat perturbed.
Pilot-free whales ?
That would be something to write home aspout!
was that pun just a fluke?
No, I blue all my chances in one, but I narwhale I wouldn’t get away with
it with you aboat.
--
Toodle Pip
BrritSki
2018-08-23 17:26:09 UTC
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Post by Mike
Post by Paul Herber
Post by Mike
Post by BrritSki
Post by John Ashby
Post by Penny
On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 10:16:43 +0100, Nick Odell
Post by Nick Odell
On Sundays, there are special "Dales Bus" services up in t' frozen
north. There's even one that will get to a nice walking spot (Malham
Cove, since you asked) with time to do a few things before it comes back
again. But it leaves from a neighbouring town before any bus service
from our town can reach it.
The Welsh government launched a pilot free weekend bus scheme last
year.  I
think the idea was to get folk out of the cities and into the countryside.
I originally parsed that as a pilot-free weekend bus scheme, and was
somewhat perturbed.
Pilot-free whales ?
That would be something to write home aspout!
was that pun just a fluke?
No, I blue all my chances in one, but I narwhale I wouldn’t get away with
it with you aboat.
Mishter McToodelsh, don't call me Ishmael me.
Mike
2018-08-23 17:40:12 UTC
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Post by BrritSki
Post by Mike
Post by Paul Herber
Post by Mike
Post by BrritSki
Post by John Ashby
Post by Penny
On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 10:16:43 +0100, Nick Odell
Post by Nick Odell
On Sundays, there are special "Dales Bus" services up in t' frozen
north. There's even one that will get to a nice walking spot (Malham
Cove, since you asked) with time to do a few things before it comes back
again. But it leaves from a neighbouring town before any bus service
from our town can reach it.
The Welsh government launched a pilot free weekend bus scheme last
year.  I
think the idea was to get folk out of the cities and into the countryside.
I originally parsed that as a pilot-free weekend bus scheme, and was
somewhat perturbed.
Pilot-free whales ?
That would be something to write home aspout!
was that pun just a fluke?
No, I blue all my chances in one, but I narwhale I wouldn’t get away with
it with you aboat.
Mishter McToodelsh, don't call me Ishmael me.
I need to s harpoon up my communication skills for that, don’t blubber, I
didn’t mean to offend you, was there something pacific I did wrong? Ohshun
me if you like, but I would prefer you channeled your energies more
constructively for indian, we all have rub along together don’t we? If my
plea falls on deaf ears, atlantic tried.
--
Toodle Pip
Fenny
2018-08-23 17:16:47 UTC
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Post by John Ashby
I originally parsed that as a pilot-free weekend bus scheme, and was
somewhat perturbed.
+1
--
Fenny
Fenny
2018-08-23 17:15:40 UTC
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On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 10:16:43 +0100, Nick Odell
Post by Nick Odell
I consider Sundays as lost days from a public transport perspective.
In the days when I lived in Sunny Huddersfield, if I considered the
concept of going to visit the parentals in Sheffield for the weekend
by public transport, I quickly gave it up on the grounds that I'd get
about an hour and a half at home before having to set off back again.
--
Fenny
Penny
2018-08-23 18:02:29 UTC
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On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 18:15:40 +0100, Fenny <***@removethis.gmail.com>
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Penny
On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 10:16:43 +0100, Nick Odell
Post by Nick Odell
I consider Sundays as lost days from a public transport perspective.
In the days when I lived in Sunny Huddersfield, if I considered the
concept of going to visit the parentals in Sheffield for the weekend
by public transport, I quickly gave it up on the grounds that I'd get
about an hour and a half at home before having to set off back again.
Gosh! That means public transport between Hudds and Sheffield is/was
considerably worse than between Sheffield and Mid Wales.
I'm amazed!
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Fenny
2018-08-23 19:42:49 UTC
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Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Penny
On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 10:16:43 +0100, Nick Odell
Post by Nick Odell
I consider Sundays as lost days from a public transport perspective.
In the days when I lived in Sunny Huddersfield, if I considered the
concept of going to visit the parentals in Sheffield for the weekend
by public transport, I quickly gave it up on the grounds that I'd get
about an hour and a half at home before having to set off back again.
Gosh! That means public transport between Hudds and Sheffield is/was
considerably worse than between Sheffield and Mid Wales.
I'm amazed!
Yes. Getting to Wales from Sheffield is fine. Getting to Hudds, you
have to go via Leeds (or Mancyland) and on a Sunday, the Leeds train
goes via everywhere, including Wath and other such joyful places.
--
Fenny
Nick Odell
2018-08-23 22:21:39 UTC
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Post by Fenny
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Penny
On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 10:16:43 +0100, Nick Odell
Post by Nick Odell
I consider Sundays as lost days from a public transport perspective.
In the days when I lived in Sunny Huddersfield, if I considered the
concept of going to visit the parentals in Sheffield for the weekend
by public transport, I quickly gave it up on the grounds that I'd get
about an hour and a half at home before having to set off back again.
Gosh! That means public transport between Hudds and Sheffield is/was
considerably worse than between Sheffield and Mid Wales.
I'm amazed!
Yes. Getting to Wales from Sheffield is fine. Getting to Hudds, you
have to go via Leeds (or Mancyland) and on a Sunday, the Leeds train
goes via everywhere, including Wath and other such joyful places.
There is still the Penistone line and it operates on a Sunday but it
takes nearly all day.

In other news there is a new route between Hudds and Leeds via
Brighouse, Halifax, Bradford and a few intermediate stations too. It's
timetabled for 1h 1m but on the day we took it deliberately for the
scenic beauty of the longer trip the time dragged out by a further 15
minutes

Nick
Fenny
2018-08-24 16:24:58 UTC
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On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 23:21:39 +0100, Nick Odell
Post by Nick Odell
There is still the Penistone line and it operates on a Sunday but it
takes nearly all day.
I think that's why it's disappeared from my memory. I never used it
because it was of no use.
--
Fenny
Chris McMillan
2018-08-25 12:50:11 UTC
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Post by Nick Odell
Post by Fenny
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Penny
On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 10:16:43 +0100, Nick Odell
Post by Nick Odell
I consider Sundays as lost days from a public transport perspective.
In the days when I lived in Sunny Huddersfield, if I considered the
concept of going to visit the parentals in Sheffield for the weekend
by public transport, I quickly gave it up on the grounds that I'd get
about an hour and a half at home before having to set off back again.
Gosh! That means public transport between Hudds and Sheffield is/was
considerably worse than between Sheffield and Mid Wales.
I'm amazed!
Yes. Getting to Wales from Sheffield is fine. Getting to Hudds, you
have to go via Leeds (or Mancyland) and on a Sunday, the Leeds train
goes via everywhere, including Wath and other such joyful places.
There is still the Penistone line and it operates on a Sunday but it
takes nearly all day.
In other news there is a new route between Hudds and Leeds via
Brighouse, Halifax, Bradford and a few intermediate stations too. It's
timetabled for 1h 1m but on the day we took it deliberately for the
scenic beauty of the longer trip the time dragged out by a further 15
minutes
Nick
It knee it had an overseas visitor to show off to?

sincerely Chris

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