Discussion:
Thursday 27/7/17
(too old to reply)
Vicky
2017-07-28 21:27:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
I thought this was very well done. I spend a lot of time complaining
so should say when they get it right :). It felt like a proper goodbye
for Caroline and for her cousin too for the people of Ambridge, the
actors and for us as well.
--
Vicky
steveski
2017-07-29 00:16:59 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
I thought this was very well done. I spend a lot of time complaining so
should say when they get it right :). It felt like a proper goodbye for
Caroline and for her cousin too for the people of Ambridge, the actors
and for us as well.
Soiler space:

#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#


I hadn't had any particulary strong emotions about Caroline's death
(apart from the ones about her best friend's real passing) but Oliver and
Ed's chat had me welling up a bit.
--
Steveski
BrritSki
2017-07-29 05:45:53 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by steveski
I thought this was very well done. I spend a lot of time complaining so
should say when they get it right :). It felt like a proper goodbye for
Caroline and for her cousin too for the people of Ambridge, the actors
and for us as well.
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
I hadn't had any particulary strong emotions about Caroline's death
(apart from the ones about her best friend's real passing) but Oliver and
Ed's chat had me welling up a bit.
YANAOU
Chris McMillan
2017-07-29 13:10:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by BrritSki
Post by steveski
I thought this was very well done. I spend a lot of time complaining so
should say when they get it right :). It felt like a proper goodbye for
Caroline and for her cousin too for the people of Ambridge, the actors
and for us as well.
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
I hadn't had any particulary strong emotions about Caroline's death
(apart from the ones about her best friend's real passing) but Oliver and
Ed's chat had me welling up a bit.
YANAOU
Rite of passage for Ed, that. Would be nice now to hear Willyerm's
thoughts on his godmother voiced to Clarrie rather than Nick. Her passing
might bring them to a better relationship in their shared grief.

Sincerely Chris
Vicky
2017-07-29 17:10:14 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sat, 29 Jul 2017 13:10:16 GMT, Chris McMillan
Post by Chris McMillan
Post by BrritSki
Post by steveski
I thought this was very well done. I spend a lot of time complaining so
should say when they get it right :). It felt like a proper goodbye for
Caroline and for her cousin too for the people of Ambridge, the actors
and for us as well.
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
I hadn't had any particulary strong emotions about Caroline's death
(apart from the ones about her best friend's real passing) but Oliver and
Ed's chat had me welling up a bit.
YANAOU
Rite of passage for Ed, that. Would be nice now to hear Willyerm's
thoughts on his godmother voiced to Clarrie rather than Nick. Her passing
might bring them to a better relationship in their shared grief.
Sincerely Chris
I suppose there is always the possibility that all will not be
sweetness and light when the will is read, although presumably Oliver
knows what is in it. William is the actual godson, but she was good
to Ed. I am surprised we didn't hear Will speak at the funeral. Maybe
the BBC couldn't afford both him and Ed and all the rest who spoke.
--
Vicky
Serena Blanchflower
2017-07-29 17:24:30 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Vicky
On Sat, 29 Jul 2017 13:10:16 GMT, Chris McMillan
Post by Chris McMillan
Post by BrritSki
Post by steveski
I thought this was very well done. I spend a lot of time complaining so
should say when they get it right :). It felt like a proper goodbye for
Caroline and for her cousin too for the people of Ambridge, the actors
and for us as well.
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
I hadn't had any particulary strong emotions about Caroline's death
(apart from the ones about her best friend's real passing) but Oliver and
Ed's chat had me welling up a bit.
YANAOU
Rite of passage for Ed, that. Would be nice now to hear Willyerm's
thoughts on his godmother voiced to Clarrie rather than Nick. Her passing
might bring them to a better relationship in their shared grief.
Sincerely Chris
I suppose there is always the possibility that all will not be
sweetness and light when the will is read, although presumably Oliver
knows what is in it. William is the actual godson, but she was good
to Ed. I am surprised we didn't hear Will speak at the funeral. Maybe
the BBC couldn't afford both him and Ed and all the rest who spoke.
I suspect that her will will simply leave everything to Oliver. She was
still young and may well have planned to update her will, later on, with
specific bequests but not got around to it. It sounded as if Oliver was
starting to think about what she would have wanted to give various
friends but, given that he was having difficulty deciding what she would
want, I don't think any of that was in her will.
--
Best wishes, Serena
Weeds are flowers, too, once you get to know them. (A.A. Milne)
Btms
2017-07-29 18:58:23 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Vicky
On Sat, 29 Jul 2017 13:10:16 GMT, Chris McMillan
Post by Chris McMillan
Post by BrritSki
Post by steveski
I thought this was very well done. I spend a lot of time complaining so
should say when they get it right :). It felt like a proper goodbye for
Caroline and for her cousin too for the people of Ambridge, the actors
and for us as well.
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
I hadn't had any particulary strong emotions about Caroline's death
(apart from the ones about her best friend's real passing) but Oliver and
Ed's chat had me welling up a bit.
YANAOU
Rite of passage for Ed, that. Would be nice now to hear Willyerm's
thoughts on his godmother voiced to Clarrie rather than Nick. Her passing
might bring them to a better relationship in their shared grief.
Sincerely Chris
I suppose there is always the possibility that all will not be
sweetness and light when the will is read, although presumably Oliver
knows what is in it. William is the actual godson, but she was good
to Ed. I am surprised we didn't hear Will speak at the funeral. Maybe
the BBC couldn't afford both him and Ed and all the rest who spoke.
Willyerm is so boring, I guess nobody could imagine him making a
contribution of value.
--
BTMS - Equine Advisor Extraordinaire.
BrritSki
2017-07-29 20:18:44 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Btms
Post by Vicky
On Sat, 29 Jul 2017 13:10:16 GMT, Chris McMillan
Post by Chris McMillan
Post by BrritSki
Post by steveski
I thought this was very well done. I spend a lot of time complaining so
should say when they get it right :). It felt like a proper goodbye for
Caroline and for her cousin too for the people of Ambridge, the actors
and for us as well.
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
I hadn't had any particulary strong emotions about Caroline's death
(apart from the ones about her best friend's real passing) but Oliver and
Ed's chat had me welling up a bit.
YANAOU
Rite of passage for Ed, that. Would be nice now to hear Willyerm's
thoughts on his godmother voiced to Clarrie rather than Nick. Her passing
might bring them to a better relationship in their shared grief.
Sincerely Chris
I suppose there is always the possibility that all will not be
sweetness and light when the will is read, although presumably Oliver
knows what is in it. William is the actual godson, but she was good
to Ed. I am surprised we didn't hear Will speak at the funeral. Maybe
the BBC couldn't afford both him and Ed and all the rest who spoke.
Willyerm is so boring, I guess nobody could imagine him making a
contribution of value.
If Will had been there they wouldn't have been sure if the whining was
from him or from Caroline rotating in her coffin with that awful start
by Rev. Alan.
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2017-07-29 21:16:19 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by BrritSki
Post by Btms
Post by Vicky
On Sat, 29 Jul 2017 13:10:16 GMT, Chris McMillan
Post by Chris McMillan
Post by BrritSki
Post by steveski
I thought this was very well done. I spend a lot of time complaining so
should say when they get it right :). It felt like a proper goodbye for
Caroline and for her cousin too for the people of Ambridge, the actors
and for us as well.
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
I hadn't had any particulary strong emotions about Caroline's death
(apart from the ones about her best friend's real passing) but Oliver and
Ed's chat had me welling up a bit.
YANAOU
I thought very well _acted_ by all concerned, but not sure all that
_credible_. I'm sure it _does_ happen, but a much younger man offering
to "be there for" a much older? I don't _remember_ offering such when I
was Ed's age (not that I wasn't sympathetic to anyone bereaved, I just
wouldn't have been able to come up with the words), and later, when
bereaved (Ok, not as old as Oliver), I don't remember such support being
offered by those much younger than I/me.
Post by BrritSki
Post by Btms
Post by Vicky
Post by Chris McMillan
Rite of passage for Ed, that. Would be nice now to hear Willyerm's
thoughts on his godmother voiced to Clarrie rather than Nick. Her passing
might bring them to a better relationship in their shared grief.
Sincerely Chris
I suppose there is always the possibility that all will not be
sweetness and light when the will is read, although presumably Oliver
knows what is in it. William is the actual godson, but she was good
to Ed. I am surprised we didn't hear Will speak at the funeral. Maybe
the BBC couldn't afford both him and Ed and all the rest who spoke.
Willyerm is so boring, I guess nobody could imagine him making a
contribution of value.
If Will had been there they wouldn't have been sure if the whining was
from him or from Caroline rotating in her coffin with that awful start
by Rev. Alan.
Ah, glad I'm not the only one who found it cringeworthy.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Humans landed on the moon before we put wheels on our luggage.
Mike
2017-07-30 07:58:15 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by BrritSki
Post by Btms
Post by Vicky
On Sat, 29 Jul 2017 13:10:16 GMT, Chris McMillan
Post by Chris McMillan
Post by BrritSki
Post by steveski
I thought this was very well done. I spend a lot of time complaining so
should say when they get it right :). It felt like a proper goodbye for
Caroline and for her cousin too for the people of Ambridge, the actors
and for us as well.
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
I hadn't had any particulary strong emotions about Caroline's death
(apart from the ones about her best friend's real passing) but Oliver and
Ed's chat had me welling up a bit.
YANAOU
I thought very well _acted_ by all concerned, but not sure all that
_credible_. I'm sure it _does_ happen, but a much younger man offering
to "be there for" a much older? I don't _remember_ offering such when I
was Ed's age (not that I wasn't sympathetic to anyone bereaved, I just
wouldn't have been able to come up with the words), and later, when
bereaved (Ok, not as old as Oliver), I don't remember such support being
offered by those much younger than I/me.
Post by BrritSki
Post by Btms
Post by Vicky
Post by Chris McMillan
Rite of passage for Ed, that. Would be nice now to hear Willyerm's
thoughts on his godmother voiced to Clarrie rather than Nick. Her passing
might bring them to a better relationship in their shared grief.
Sincerely Chris
I suppose there is always the possibility that all will not be
sweetness and light when the will is read, although presumably Oliver
knows what is in it. William is the actual godson, but she was good
to Ed. I am surprised we didn't hear Will speak at the funeral. Maybe
the BBC couldn't afford both him and Ed and all the rest who spoke.
Willyerm is so boring, I guess nobody could imagine him making a
contribution of value.
If Will had been there they wouldn't have been sure if the whining was
from him or from Caroline rotating in her coffin with that awful start
by Rev. Alan.
Ah, glad I'm not the only one who found it cringeworthy.
+ anotherrat.
--
Toodle Pip
Btms
2017-07-30 13:02:43 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by BrritSki
Post by Btms
Post by Vicky
On Sat, 29 Jul 2017 13:10:16 GMT, Chris McMillan
Post by Chris McMillan
Post by BrritSki
Post by steveski
I thought this was very well done. I spend a lot of time complaining so
should say when they get it right :). It felt like a proper goodbye for
Caroline and for her cousin too for the people of Ambridge, the actors
and for us as well.
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
I hadn't had any particulary strong emotions about Caroline's death
(apart from the ones about her best friend's real passing) but Oliver and
Ed's chat had me welling up a bit.
YANAOU
I thought very well _acted_ by all concerned, but not sure all that
_credible_. I'm sure it _does_ happen, but a much younger man offering
to "be there for" a much older? I don't _remember_ offering such when I
was Ed's age (not that I wasn't sympathetic to anyone bereaved, I just
wouldn't have been able to come up with the words), and later, when
bereaved (Ok, not as old as Oliver), I don't remember such support being
offered by those much younger than I/me.
Post by BrritSki
Post by Btms
Post by Vicky
Post by Chris McMillan
Rite of passage for Ed, that. Would be nice now to hear Willyerm's
thoughts on his godmother voiced to Clarrie rather than Nick. Her passing
might bring them to a better relationship in their shared grief.
Sincerely Chris
I suppose there is always the possibility that all will not be
sweetness and light when the will is read, although presumably Oliver
knows what is in it. William is the actual godson, but she was good
to Ed. I am surprised we didn't hear Will speak at the funeral. Maybe
the BBC couldn't afford both him and Ed and all the rest who spoke.
Willyerm is so boring, I guess nobody could imagine him making a
contribution of value.
If Will had been there they wouldn't have been sure if the whining was
from him or from Caroline rotating in her coffin with that awful start
by Rev. Alan.
Ah, glad I'm not the only one who found it cringeworthy.
How would you have begun? A general question to those who feel more
strongly negative than me. I found myself wondering what I would have
done.
--
BTMS - Equine Advisor Extraordinaire.
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2017-07-30 13:37:17 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In message
[]
Post by Btms
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by BrritSki
If Will had been there they wouldn't have been sure if the whining was
from him or from Caroline rotating in her coffin with that awful start
by Rev. Alan.
Ah, glad I'm not the only one who found it cringeworthy.
How would you have begun? A general question to those who feel more
strongly negative than me. I found myself wondering what I would have
done.
Not used _any_ biblical or similar references, for a start.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

The early worm gets the bird.
Btms
2017-07-30 19:37:42 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
In message
[]
Post by Btms
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by BrritSki
If Will had been there they wouldn't have been sure if the whining was
from him or from Caroline rotating in her coffin with that awful start
by Rev. Alan.
Ah, glad I'm not the only one who found it cringeworthy.
How would you have begun? A general question to those who feel more
strongly negative than me. I found myself wondering what I would have
done.
Not used _any_ biblical or similar references, for a start.
I wondered about that but think it unlikely from a vicar.
--
BTMS - Equine Advisor Extraordinaire.
Fenny
2017-07-30 21:31:15 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Btms
I wondered about that but think it unlikely from a vicar.
Alan and Shula discussed the event and they agreed that although
Caroline was totally not religious, the passage chosen was suitable.
If there hadn't been that conversation with Shula, I would have agreed
that it was misplaced, but Shula was OK with it.
--
Fenny
carolet
2017-07-30 22:24:40 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Fenny
Post by Btms
I wondered about that but think it unlikely from a vicar.
Alan and Shula discussed the event and they agreed that although
Caroline was totally not religious, the passage chosen was suitable.
If there hadn't been that conversation with Shula, I would have agreed
that it was misplaced, but Shula was OK with it.
Shula and Alan are both is religious though, I think that their idea of
what is appropriate might, therefore, be at odds with what a totally non
religious person might think.

I don't think we heard what Oliver thought, and I don't think we know
whether he is religious.
--
CaroleT
Btms
2017-07-31 06:33:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by carolet
Post by Fenny
Post by Btms
I wondered about that but think it unlikely from a vicar.
Alan and Shula discussed the event and they agreed that although
Caroline was totally not religious, the passage chosen was suitable.
If there hadn't been that conversation with Shula, I would have agreed
that it was misplaced, but Shula was OK with it.
Shula and Alan are both is religious though, I think that their idea of
what is appropriate might, therefore, be at odds with what a totally non
religious person might think.
I don't think we heard what Oliver thought, and I don't think we know
whether he is religious.
In reality it would have been about pleasing a wide range of their 4m
listeners and nothing to do with anyone in Ambridge.
--
BTMS - Equine Advisor Extraordinaire.
Kate B
2017-07-31 10:00:35 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Btms
Post by carolet
Post by Fenny
Post by Btms
I wondered about that but think it unlikely from a vicar.
Alan and Shula discussed the event and they agreed that although
Caroline was totally not religious, the passage chosen was suitable.
If there hadn't been that conversation with Shula, I would have agreed
that it was misplaced, but Shula was OK with it.
Shula and Alan are both is religious though, I think that their idea of
what is appropriate might, therefore, be at odds with what a totally non
religious person might think.
I don't think we heard what Oliver thought, and I don't think we know
whether he is religious.
In reality it would have been about pleasing a wide range of their 4m
listeners and nothing to do with anyone in Ambridge.
And in Ambridge reality - as in most flavours of reality - funeral rites
are for the support of the living. The dead, wherever they are, are
unlikely to worry about their own amour-propre. Caroline's most faithful
friends apparently needed that kind of comfort. My directions for my own
funeral include a couple of things that meant a lot to me, but the rest
of it is up to those who need the comforting. I am generally a complete
control-freak, but even I recognise that there are some things rightly
beyond my control.
--
Kate B
London
LFS
2017-07-31 10:35:05 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Kate B
Post by Btms
Post by carolet
Post by Fenny
Post by Btms
I wondered about that but think it unlikely from a vicar.
Alan and Shula discussed the event and they agreed that although
Caroline was totally not religious, the passage chosen was suitable.
If there hadn't been that conversation with Shula, I would have agreed
that it was misplaced, but Shula was OK with it.
Shula and Alan are both is religious though, I think that their idea of
what is appropriate might, therefore, be at odds with what a totally non
religious person might think.
I don't think we heard what Oliver thought, and I don't think we know
whether he is religious.
In reality it would have been about pleasing a wide range of their 4m
listeners and nothing to do with anyone in Ambridge.
And in Ambridge reality - as in most flavours of reality - funeral rites
are for the support of the living. The dead, wherever they are, are
unlikely to worry about their own amour-propre. Caroline's most faithful
friends apparently needed that kind of comfort. My directions for my own
funeral include a couple of things that meant a lot to me, but the rest
of it is up to those who need the comforting. I am generally a complete
control-freak, but even I recognise that there are some things rightly
beyond my control.
One of the positive aspects of being Jewish is not needing to make
funeral decisions: the procedures are simple, very well established and
there are no choices to be made. No music, no flowers, a bunch of
prayers, a eulogy and a burial.

Our mourning practices immediately following the funeral are also
surprisingly comforting - several days of focusing on the deceased,
visited by friends, a bit like an extended wake with no booze but lots
of food. When Dad died I kept wishing he was there to enjoy the party,
all his favourite people together in one place, which I don't think we
had ever managed before.
--
Laura (emulate St George for email)
Mike
2017-07-31 10:46:57 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by LFS
Post by Kate B
Post by Btms
Post by carolet
Post by Fenny
Post by Btms
I wondered about that but think it unlikely from a vicar.
Alan and Shula discussed the event and they agreed that although
Caroline was totally not religious, the passage chosen was suitable.
If there hadn't been that conversation with Shula, I would have agreed
that it was misplaced, but Shula was OK with it.
Shula and Alan are both is religious though, I think that their idea of
what is appropriate might, therefore, be at odds with what a totally non
religious person might think.
I don't think we heard what Oliver thought, and I don't think we know
whether he is religious.
In reality it would have been about pleasing a wide range of their 4m
listeners and nothing to do with anyone in Ambridge.
And in Ambridge reality - as in most flavours of reality - funeral rites
are for the support of the living. The dead, wherever they are, are
unlikely to worry about their own amour-propre. Caroline's most faithful
friends apparently needed that kind of comfort. My directions for my own
funeral include a couple of things that meant a lot to me, but the rest
of it is up to those who need the comforting. I am generally a complete
control-freak, but even I recognise that there are some things rightly
beyond my control.
One of the positive aspects of being Jewish is not needing to make
funeral decisions: the procedures are simple, very well established and
there are no choices to be made. No music, no flowers, a bunch of
prayers, a eulogy and a burial.
Our mourning practices immediately following the funeral are also
surprisingly comforting - several days of focusing on the deceased,
visited by friends, a bit like an extended wake with no booze but lots
of food. When Dad died I kept wishing he was there to enjoy the party,
all his favourite people together in one place, which I don't think we
had ever managed before.
Sounds as though a 'mourning your going' sometime in advance of dying
(obviously, only appropriate when coming to the end of a good life but not
one precipitated by accidental death of course) might work, that way, the
person who is the subject of the mourning could meet all their friends and
enjoy the proceedings with them! Is there a flaw in my plan I wonder???
--
Toodle Pip
Nick Odell
2017-08-01 07:39:01 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mike
Post by LFS
Post by Kate B
Post by Btms
Post by carolet
Post by Fenny
Post by Btms
I wondered about that but think it unlikely from a vicar.
Alan and Shula discussed the event and they agreed that although
Caroline was totally not religious, the passage chosen was suitable.
If there hadn't been that conversation with Shula, I would have agreed
that it was misplaced, but Shula was OK with it.
Shula and Alan are both is religious though, I think that their idea of
what is appropriate might, therefore, be at odds with what a totally non
religious person might think.
I don't think we heard what Oliver thought, and I don't think we know
whether he is religious.
In reality it would have been about pleasing a wide range of their 4m
listeners and nothing to do with anyone in Ambridge.
And in Ambridge reality - as in most flavours of reality - funeral rites
are for the support of the living. The dead, wherever they are, are
unlikely to worry about their own amour-propre. Caroline's most faithful
friends apparently needed that kind of comfort. My directions for my own
funeral include a couple of things that meant a lot to me, but the rest
of it is up to those who need the comforting. I am generally a complete
control-freak, but even I recognise that there are some things rightly
beyond my control.
One of the positive aspects of being Jewish is not needing to make
funeral decisions: the procedures are simple, very well established and
there are no choices to be made. No music, no flowers, a bunch of
prayers, a eulogy and a burial.
Our mourning practices immediately following the funeral are also
surprisingly comforting - several days of focusing on the deceased,
visited by friends, a bit like an extended wake with no booze but lots
of food. When Dad died I kept wishing he was there to enjoy the party,
all his favourite people together in one place, which I don't think we
had ever managed before.
Sounds as though a 'mourning your going' sometime in advance of dying
(obviously, only appropriate when coming to the end of a good life but not
one precipitated by accidental death of course) might work, that way, the
person who is the subject of the mourning could meet all their friends and
enjoy the proceedings with them! Is there a flaw in my plan I wonder???
There was a party something like that near the end of The
Time-Traveller's Wife by Audrey Niffeneger. No spoilers, but I hope I've
spelled at least some of that correctly.

Nick
Penny
2017-07-31 11:13:00 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Mon, 31 Jul 2017 11:35:05 +0100, LFS <***@gmail.com>
scrawled in the dust...
Post by LFS
When Dad died I kept wishing he was there to enjoy the party,
all his favourite people together in one place, which I don't think we
had ever managed before.
That was one of the things I found mildly disturbing about my mother's
funeral. My grandmother had fallen out with one of her sisters in a big way
many years previously, to the extent she denied her existence. My mother
had a very close relationship with one of her cousins, daughter of this
sister, which continued throughout her life and I continued to feel close
to her and her family (but rarely saw my grandmother).

I found it odd to see them all together in the same room, talking about the
old days, laughing and reminiscing together.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Kate B
2017-07-31 11:17:40 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by LFS
Post by Kate B
Post by Btms
Post by carolet
Post by Fenny
Post by Btms
I wondered about that but think it unlikely from a vicar.
Alan and Shula discussed the event and they agreed that although
Caroline was totally not religious, the passage chosen was suitable.
If there hadn't been that conversation with Shula, I would have agreed
that it was misplaced, but Shula was OK with it.
Shula and Alan are both is religious though, I think that their idea of
what is appropriate might, therefore, be at odds with what a totally non
religious person might think.
I don't think we heard what Oliver thought, and I don't think we know
whether he is religious.
In reality it would have been about pleasing a wide range of their 4m
listeners and nothing to do with anyone in Ambridge.
And in Ambridge reality - as in most flavours of reality - funeral
rites are for the support of the living. The dead, wherever they are,
are unlikely to worry about their own amour-propre. Caroline's most
faithful friends apparently needed that kind of comfort. My directions
for my own funeral include a couple of things that meant a lot to me,
but the rest of it is up to those who need the comforting. I am
generally a complete control-freak, but even I recognise that there
are some things rightly beyond my control.
One of the positive aspects of being Jewish is not needing to make
funeral decisions: the procedures are simple, very well established and
there are no choices to be made. No music, no flowers, a bunch of
prayers, a eulogy and a burial.
Our mourning practices immediately following the funeral are also
surprisingly comforting - several days of focusing on the deceased,
visited by friends, a bit like an extended wake with no booze but lots
of food. When Dad died I kept wishing he was there to enjoy the party,
all his favourite people together in one place, which I don't think we
had ever managed before.
I think that's a perfectly wonderful way to organise things. I also
admire the old Catholic Mass for the Dead - my father's funeral was a
sung Gregorian Requiem, very austere, with a couple of excellent hymns
to channel congregational emotion, and only one eulogy, by the priest
who had known him for decades. By the end of it you felt you had done
him justice and said a proper goodbye, and were ready for the jolly good
party that followed.
--
Kate B
London
Mike Headon
2017-08-01 07:23:49 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Kate B
Post by LFS
Post by Kate B
Post by Btms
Post by carolet
Post by Fenny
Post by Btms
I wondered about that but think it unlikely from a vicar.
Alan and Shula discussed the event and they agreed that although
Caroline was totally not religious, the passage chosen was suitable.
If there hadn't been that conversation with Shula, I would have agreed
that it was misplaced, but Shula was OK with it.
Shula and Alan are both is religious though, I think that their idea of
what is appropriate might, therefore, be at odds with what a totally non
religious person might think.
I don't think we heard what Oliver thought, and I don't think we know
whether he is religious.
In reality it would have been about pleasing a wide range of their 4m
listeners and nothing to do with anyone in Ambridge.
And in Ambridge reality - as in most flavours of reality - funeral
rites are for the support of the living. The dead, wherever they are,
are unlikely to worry about their own amour-propre. Caroline's most
faithful friends apparently needed that kind of comfort. My
directions for my own funeral include a couple of things that meant a
lot to me, but the rest of it is up to those who need the comforting.
I am generally a complete control-freak, but even I recognise that
there are some things rightly beyond my control.
One of the positive aspects of being Jewish is not needing to make
funeral decisions: the procedures are simple, very well established
and there are no choices to be made. No music, no flowers, a bunch of
prayers, a eulogy and a burial.
Our mourning practices immediately following the funeral are also
surprisingly comforting - several days of focusing on the deceased,
visited by friends, a bit like an extended wake with no booze but lots
of food. When Dad died I kept wishing he was there to enjoy the party,
all his favourite people together in one place, which I don't think we
had ever managed before.
I think that's a perfectly wonderful way to organise things. I also
admire the old Catholic Mass for the Dead - my father's funeral was a
sung Gregorian Requiem, very austere, with a couple of excellent hymns
to channel congregational emotion, and only one eulogy, by the priest
who had known him for decades. By the end of it you felt you had done
him justice and said a proper goodbye, and were ready for the jolly good
party that followed.
Yes, that is what I want - black vestments, "Dies Irae" and "Libera me"
just as I sang in so often at school. For some reason my priest does not
sound very enthusiastic!
--
Mike Headon
R69S R850R
IIIc IIIg FT FTn FT2 EOS450D
e-mail: mike dot headon at enn tee ell world dot com

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Kate B
2017-08-01 09:40:52 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mike Headon
Post by Kate B
Post by LFS
Post by Kate B
Post by Btms
Post by carolet
On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 19:37:42 -0000 (UTC), Btms
Post by Btms
I wondered about that but think it unlikely from a vicar.
Alan and Shula discussed the event and they agreed that although
Caroline was totally not religious, the passage chosen was suitable.
If there hadn't been that conversation with Shula, I would have agreed
that it was misplaced, but Shula was OK with it.
Shula and Alan are both is religious though, I think that their idea of
what is appropriate might, therefore, be at odds with what a totally non
religious person might think.
I don't think we heard what Oliver thought, and I don't think we know
whether he is religious.
In reality it would have been about pleasing a wide range of their 4m
listeners and nothing to do with anyone in Ambridge.
And in Ambridge reality - as in most flavours of reality - funeral
rites are for the support of the living. The dead, wherever they are,
are unlikely to worry about their own amour-propre. Caroline's most
faithful friends apparently needed that kind of comfort. My
directions for my own funeral include a couple of things that meant a
lot to me, but the rest of it is up to those who need the comforting.
I am generally a complete control-freak, but even I recognise that
there are some things rightly beyond my control.
One of the positive aspects of being Jewish is not needing to make
funeral decisions: the procedures are simple, very well established
and there are no choices to be made. No music, no flowers, a bunch of
prayers, a eulogy and a burial.
Our mourning practices immediately following the funeral are also
surprisingly comforting - several days of focusing on the deceased,
visited by friends, a bit like an extended wake with no booze but lots
of food. When Dad died I kept wishing he was there to enjoy the party,
all his favourite people together in one place, which I don't think we
had ever managed before.
I think that's a perfectly wonderful way to organise things. I also
admire the old Catholic Mass for the Dead - my father's funeral was a
sung Gregorian Requiem, very austere, with a couple of excellent hymns
to channel congregational emotion, and only one eulogy, by the priest
who had known him for decades. By the end of it you felt you had done
him justice and said a proper goodbye, and were ready for the jolly good
party that followed.
Yes, that is what I want - black vestments, "Dies Irae" and "Libera me"
just as I sang in so often at school. For some reason my priest does not
sound very enthusiastic!
Pah, these modern happyclappy types. They may even never have studied
any Latin. It's a pity. I'm far from being a proper card-carrying
Catholic, but I remember the days when everyone knew the Credo and the
Missa de Angelis and the Paternoster and had no inhibitions in singing
them loudly. And you could join in in France or Italy or Austria and be
part of it. The hymns were rubbish but the chanting was splendid. These
days the hymns may be better where they've pinched them from good old
Anglican hymns, but are more likely to be the terrible sentimental tosh
you get everywhere, accompanied by rather bad and grossly amplified
guitar-playing.
--
Kate B
London
Fenny
2017-08-01 19:36:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Kate B
but are more likely to be the terrible sentimental tosh
you get everywhere, accompanied by rather bad and grossly amplified
guitar-playing.
in a dreadful faux-Leftpondian accent.
--
Fenny
Chris McMillan
2017-08-01 10:09:24 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mike Headon
Post by Kate B
Post by LFS
Post by Kate B
Post by Btms
Post by carolet
Post by Fenny
Post by Btms
I wondered about that but think it unlikely from a vicar.
Alan and Shula discussed the event and they agreed that although
Caroline was totally not religious, the passage chosen was suitable.
If there hadn't been that conversation with Shula, I would have agreed
that it was misplaced, but Shula was OK with it.
Shula and Alan are both is religious though, I think that their idea of
what is appropriate might, therefore, be at odds with what a totally non
religious person might think.
I don't think we heard what Oliver thought, and I don't think we know
whether he is religious.
In reality it would have been about pleasing a wide range of their 4m
listeners and nothing to do with anyone in Ambridge.
And in Ambridge reality - as in most flavours of reality - funeral
rites are for the support of the living. The dead, wherever they are,
are unlikely to worry about their own amour-propre. Caroline's most
faithful friends apparently needed that kind of comfort. My
directions for my own funeral include a couple of things that meant a
lot to me, but the rest of it is up to those who need the comforting.
I am generally a complete control-freak, but even I recognise that
there are some things rightly beyond my control.
One of the positive aspects of being Jewish is not needing to make
funeral decisions: the procedures are simple, very well established
and there are no choices to be made. No music, no flowers, a bunch of
prayers, a eulogy and a burial.
Our mourning practices immediately following the funeral are also
surprisingly comforting - several days of focusing on the deceased,
visited by friends, a bit like an extended wake with no booze but lots
of food. When Dad died I kept wishing he was there to enjoy the party,
all his favourite people together in one place, which I don't think we
had ever managed before.
I think that's a perfectly wonderful way to organise things. I also
admire the old Catholic Mass for the Dead - my father's funeral was a
sung Gregorian Requiem, very austere, with a couple of excellent hymns
to channel congregational emotion, and only one eulogy, by the priest
who had known him for decades. By the end of it you felt you had done
him justice and said a proper goodbye, and were ready for the jolly good
party that followed.
Yes, that is what I want - black vestments, "Dies Irae" and "Libera me"
just as I sang in so often at school. For some reason my priest does not
sound very enthusiastic!
Can't see anything wrong with those, I'm very keen on them too, having sung
them (not at a funeral, I haven't sung in a church choir since the 1970s ).


I think it would be expected some nod would be made to my love of the
Chinese and/or their traditional music
But even I wouldn't suggest my CD of Tibetan 'bowls' music. Some tracks
sound more akin to a fight using dustbin lids.

It'd have to be something more reflective - but the title may not be
appropriate. Each time pieces appear on CDs, one often finds a different
type of translation, I have inadvertently bought CDs which had they been
consistent in translation I may have better saved my yuan. (I do have a
few actually bought as presents for me from China).

Sincerely Chris
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2017-07-31 06:58:02 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by carolet
Post by Fenny
Post by Btms
I wondered about that but think it unlikely from a vicar.
Alan and Shula discussed the event and they agreed that although
Caroline was totally not religious, the passage chosen was suitable.
If there hadn't been that conversation with Shula, I would have agreed
that it was misplaced, but Shula was OK with it.
Shula and Alan are both is religious though, I think that their idea of
what is appropriate might, therefore, be at odds with what a totally
non religious person might think.
Indeed. Shula was not the person to arrange a whateveryoucallit for a
non-religious person; I think Alan would have accepted steerage away
from it had the organiser been someone else. (As for whether it actually
was a religious piece or not, I take the umrat's point, but it was in
KJV - or KJV-style - language that made it _sound_ religious.)
Post by carolet
I don't think we heard what Oliver thought, and I don't think we know
whether he is religious.
Agreed.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Play dirty. If a fellow contestant asks the audience if they've got any
requests for what he or she should play, reply, "Yeah... Monopoly."
Penny
2017-07-31 09:34:00 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Mon, 31 Jul 2017 07:58:02 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Indeed. Shula was not the person to arrange a whateveryoucallit for a
non-religious person; I think Alan would have accepted steerage away
from it had the organiser been someone else.
He did - she told him she didn't think he should lead the ceremony and he
said he understood.
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by carolet
I don't think we heard what Oliver thought, and I don't think we know
whether he is religious.
He was delighted by the thought of Alan leading the ceremony.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Sally Thompson
2017-07-31 10:19:09 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Penny
On Mon, 31 Jul 2017 07:58:02 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Indeed. Shula was not the person to arrange a whateveryoucallit for a
non-religious person; I think Alan would have accepted steerage away
from it had the organiser been someone else.
He did - she told him she didn't think he should lead the ceremony and he
said he understood.
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by carolet
I don't think we heard what Oliver thought, and I don't think we know
whether he is religious.
He was delighted by the thought of Alan leading the ceremony.
And in fact Oliver was disappointed that Alan might not do so. He had
assumed it would be Alan.
--
Sally in Shropshire, UK
Mike
2017-07-30 14:00:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Btms
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by BrritSki
Post by Btms
Post by Vicky
On Sat, 29 Jul 2017 13:10:16 GMT, Chris McMillan
Post by Chris McMillan
Post by BrritSki
Post by steveski
I thought this was very well done. I spend a lot of time complaining so
should say when they get it right :). It felt like a proper goodbye for
Caroline and for her cousin too for the people of Ambridge, the actors
and for us as well.
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
I hadn't had any particulary strong emotions about Caroline's death
(apart from the ones about her best friend's real passing) but Oliver and
Ed's chat had me welling up a bit.
YANAOU
I thought very well _acted_ by all concerned, but not sure all that
_credible_. I'm sure it _does_ happen, but a much younger man offering
to "be there for" a much older? I don't _remember_ offering such when I
was Ed's age (not that I wasn't sympathetic to anyone bereaved, I just
wouldn't have been able to come up with the words), and later, when
bereaved (Ok, not as old as Oliver), I don't remember such support being
offered by those much younger than I/me.
Post by BrritSki
Post by Btms
Post by Vicky
Post by Chris McMillan
Rite of passage for Ed, that. Would be nice now to hear Willyerm's
thoughts on his godmother voiced to Clarrie rather than Nick. Her passing
might bring them to a better relationship in their shared grief.
Sincerely Chris
I suppose there is always the possibility that all will not be
sweetness and light when the will is read, although presumably Oliver
knows what is in it. William is the actual godson, but she was good
to Ed. I am surprised we didn't hear Will speak at the funeral. Maybe
the BBC couldn't afford both him and Ed and all the rest who spoke.
Willyerm is so boring, I guess nobody could imagine him making a
contribution of value.
If Will had been there they wouldn't have been sure if the whining was
from him or from Caroline rotating in her coffin with that awful start
by Rev. Alan.
Ah, glad I'm not the only one who found it cringeworthy.
How would you have begun? A general question to those who feel more
strongly negative than me. I found myself wondering what I would have
done.
I'm not here as the local vicar but as a friend, as are so many people
here, friends. Caroline was not religious in any way and would have wanted
us to celebrate her life; she was so full of life and this rubbed off on
all of you I'm sure. I recall on so many occasions.....
--
Toodle Pip
Jenny M Benson
2017-07-30 14:19:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mike
Post by Btms
How would you have begun? A general question to those who feel more
strongly negative than me. I found myself wondering what I would have
done.
I'm not here as the local vicar but as a friend, as are so many people
here, friends. Caroline was not religious in any way and would have wanted
us to celebrate her life; she was so full of life and this rubbed off on
all of you I'm sure. I recall on so many occasions.....
If, indeed, Caroline was "not religious in any way", it would seem
highly inappropriate that her funeral service was conducted by the
parish priest in the parish church (I presume the later.) Surely would
have known about her religious leanings or lack of them and would have
made arrangements accordingly.

I attended 2 cremation services on consecutive days this year. One was
for someone who espoused no religious belief and the service was totally
non-religious. It was conducted by a secular celebrant and the music
was Glen Miller swing tunes. The second was for someone strongly
associated with the Army and it was conducted by an Army Chaplain and
was slightly religious.
--
Jenny M Benson
Serena Blanchflower
2017-07-30 14:34:12 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Jenny M Benson
Post by Mike
Post by Btms
How would you have begun? A general question to those who feel more
strongly negative than me. I found myself wondering what I would have
done.
I'm not here as the local vicar but as a friend, as are so many people
here, friends. Caroline was not religious in any way and would have wanted
us to celebrate her life; she was so full of life and this rubbed off on
all of you I'm sure. I recall on so many occasions.....
If, indeed, Caroline was "not religious in any way", it would seem
highly inappropriate that her funeral service was conducted by the
parish priest in the parish church (I presume the later.) Surely would
have known about her religious leanings or lack of them and would have
made arrangements accordingly.
It was a memorial event and wasn't held in the church but at Grange
Farm, with the catering provided by Ian. Alan lead it largely because
that's what Oliver wanted.
--
Best wishes, Serena
One of the advantages of being disorganized is that one is always having
surprising discoveries. (A.A. Milne)
Jenny M Benson
2017-07-30 18:30:25 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Serena Blanchflower
It was a memorial event and wasn't held in the church but at Grange
Farm, with the catering provided by Ian. Alan lead it largely because
that's what Oliver wanted.
Ah! Understood. Perhaps as a non-listener I shouldn't butt in!
--
Jenny M Benson
Mike
2017-07-30 14:36:03 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Jenny M Benson
Post by Mike
Post by Btms
How would you have begun? A general question to those who feel more
strongly negative than me. I found myself wondering what I would have
done.
I'm not here as the local vicar but as a friend, as are so many people
here, friends. Caroline was not religious in any way and would have wanted
us to celebrate her life; she was so full of life and this rubbed off on
all of you I'm sure. I recall on so many occasions.....
If, indeed, Caroline was "not religious in any way", it would seem
highly inappropriate that her funeral service was conducted by the
parish priest in the parish church (I presume the later.) Surely would
have known about her religious leanings or lack of them and would have
made arrangements accordingly.
Which is why it was not conducted in the church, and, can't a vicar be
'just a friend'?
--
Toodle Pip
Btms
2017-07-30 19:37:46 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mike
Post by Jenny M Benson
Post by Mike
Post by Btms
How would you have begun? A general question to those who feel more
strongly negative than me. I found myself wondering what I would have
done.
I'm not here as the local vicar but as a friend, as are so many people
here, friends. Caroline was not religious in any way and would have wanted
us to celebrate her life; she was so full of life and this rubbed off on
all of you I'm sure. I recall on so many occasions.....
If, indeed, Caroline was "not religious in any way", it would seem
highly inappropriate that her funeral service was conducted by the
parish priest in the parish church (I presume the later.) Surely would
have known about her religious leanings or lack of them and would have
made arrangements accordingly.
Which is why it was not conducted in the church, and, can't a vicar be
'just a friend'?
But that friend is a friend within a context of being a whole person. If I
was asked to do something on behalf of another I would still be me, whilst
attempting to be aware of the other person. If Oliver felt it important to
be entirely secular, he shouldn't have asked the vicar to lead it.
--
BTMS - Equine Advisor Extraordinaire.
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2017-07-30 14:38:19 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Jenny M Benson
Post by Mike
Post by Btms
How would you have begun? A general question to those who feel more
strongly negative than me. I found myself wondering what I would have
done.
I'm not here as the local vicar but as a friend, as are so many people
here, friends. Caroline was not religious in any way and would have wanted
us to celebrate her life; she was so full of life and this rubbed off on
all of you I'm sure. I recall on so many occasions.....
If, indeed, Caroline was "not religious in any way", it would seem
highly inappropriate that her funeral service was conducted by the
parish priest in the parish church (I presume the later.) Surely would
It wasn't in the church; and Alan was there as, indeed, a friend. Which
is why severalrats found his introduction jarred somewhat.
Post by Jenny M Benson
have known about her religious leanings or lack of them and would have
made arrangements accordingly.
I attended 2 cremation services on consecutive days this year. One was
for someone who espoused no religious belief and the service was
totally non-religious. It was conducted by a secular celebrant and the
music was Glen Miller swing tunes. The second was for someone strongly
associated with the Army and it was conducted by an Army Chaplain and
was slightly religious.
My Dad's was humanist - and attended by the male voice choir he was a
member of. That, in a smallish crematorium, was _very_ powerful.
(Myfanwy.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

It's OK to be tight on
The seafront at Brighton
But I say, by Jove
Watch out if it's Hove.
- Sister Monica Joan, quoted by Jennifer Worth (author of the Call the
Midwife books, quoted in Radio Times 19-25 January 2013)
kosmo
2017-07-30 15:37:52 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 15:19:34 +0100, Jenny M Benson
Post by Jenny M Benson
I attended 2 cremation services on consecutive days this year. One was
for someone who espoused no religious belief and the service was totally
non-religious. It was conducted by a secular celebrant and the music
As we did for Stephanie. I do not like use of the word celebration,
although I think it slipped in. Remembrance, thanks for the life and
a wish for the future
--
kosmo
Jenny M Benson
2017-07-30 18:36:15 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by kosmo
Post by Jenny M Benson
It was conducted by a secular celebrant
As we did for Stephanie. I do not like use of the word celebration,
although I think it slipped in. Remembrance, thanks for the life and a
wish for the future
--
I think I recall correctly that this lady called herself a celebrant,
but she definitely said she was not a humanist.

I think I'm ok with celebrant, celebrate the life of, etc but I can
quite understood why you or others might not be. A difficult word to
hear/see so close to a death.
--
Jenny M Benson
kosmo
2017-07-31 16:44:55 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 19:36:15 +0100, Jenny M Benson
Post by Jenny M Benson
Post by kosmo
Post by Jenny M Benson
It was conducted by a secular celebrant
As we did for Stephanie. I do not like use of the word
celebration,
Post by Jenny M Benson
Post by kosmo
although I think it slipped in. Remembrance, thanks for the life and a
wish for the future
--
I think I recall correctly that this lady called herself a
celebrant,
Post by Jenny M Benson
but she definitely said she was not a humanist.
I think I'm ok with celebrant, celebrate the life of, etc but I can
quite understood why you or others might not be. A difficult word to
hear/see so close to a death.
--
Jenny M Benson
She did I think do so and the process needs leading. As Btms will I
am sure attest it all went well.
--
kosmo
Btms
2017-07-31 19:43:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by kosmo
On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 19:36:15 +0100, Jenny M Benson
Post by Jenny M Benson
Post by kosmo
Post by Jenny M Benson
It was conducted by a secular celebrant
As we did for Stephanie. I do not like use of the word
celebration,
Post by Jenny M Benson
Post by kosmo
although I think it slipped in. Remembrance, thanks for the life
and a
Post by Jenny M Benson
Post by kosmo
wish for the future
--
I think I recall correctly that this lady called herself a
celebrant,
Post by Jenny M Benson
but she definitely said she was not a humanist.
I think I'm ok with celebrant, celebrate the life of, etc but I can
quite understood why you or others might not be. A difficult word
to
Post by Jenny M Benson
hear/see so close to a death.
--
Jenny M Benson
She did I think do so and the process needs leading. As Btms will I
am sure attest it all went well.
I attest it was wonderful. So wonderful, it was difficult to maintain the
exceedingly low profile umra had collectively decided was appropriate.
--
BTMS - Equine Advisor Extraordinaire.
Btms
2017-07-30 19:37:46 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mike
Post by Btms
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by BrritSki
Post by Btms
Post by Vicky
On Sat, 29 Jul 2017 13:10:16 GMT, Chris McMillan
Post by Chris McMillan
Post by BrritSki
Post by steveski
I thought this was very well done. I spend a lot of time complaining so
should say when they get it right :). It felt like a proper goodbye for
Caroline and for her cousin too for the people of Ambridge, the actors
and for us as well.
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
I hadn't had any particulary strong emotions about Caroline's death
(apart from the ones about her best friend's real passing) but Oliver and
Ed's chat had me welling up a bit.
YANAOU
I thought very well _acted_ by all concerned, but not sure all that
_credible_. I'm sure it _does_ happen, but a much younger man offering
to "be there for" a much older? I don't _remember_ offering such when I
was Ed's age (not that I wasn't sympathetic to anyone bereaved, I just
wouldn't have been able to come up with the words), and later, when
bereaved (Ok, not as old as Oliver), I don't remember such support being
offered by those much younger than I/me.
Post by BrritSki
Post by Btms
Post by Vicky
Post by Chris McMillan
Rite of passage for Ed, that. Would be nice now to hear Willyerm's
thoughts on his godmother voiced to Clarrie rather than Nick. Her passing
might bring them to a better relationship in their shared grief.
Sincerely Chris
I suppose there is always the possibility that all will not be
sweetness and light when the will is read, although presumably Oliver
knows what is in it. William is the actual godson, but she was good
to Ed. I am surprised we didn't hear Will speak at the funeral. Maybe
the BBC couldn't afford both him and Ed and all the rest who spoke.
Willyerm is so boring, I guess nobody could imagine him making a
contribution of value.
If Will had been there they wouldn't have been sure if the whining was
from him or from Caroline rotating in her coffin with that awful start
by Rev. Alan.
Ah, glad I'm not the only one who found it cringeworthy.
How would you have begun? A general question to those who feel more
strongly negative than me. I found myself wondering what I would have
done.
I'm not here as the local vicar but as a friend, as are so many people
here, friends. Caroline was not religious in any way and would have wanted
us to celebrate her life; she was so full of life and this rubbed off on
all of you I'm sure. I recall on so many occasions.....
Dejavu?
--
BTMS - Equine Advisor Extraordinaire.
kosmo
2017-07-30 15:34:31 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Btms
How would you have begun? A general question to those who feel more
strongly negative than me. I found myself wondering what I would have
done.
Googling & finding a poem or similar that expressed a view which
could be expanded. Not turned to any particularly religious texts.
--
kosmo
Btms
2017-07-30 19:37:46 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by kosmo
Post by Btms
How would you have begun? A general question to those who feel more
strongly negative than me. I found myself wondering what I would
have
Post by Btms
done.
Googling & finding a poem or similar that expressed a view which
could be expanded. Not turned to any particularly religious texts.
I think I would have done that but maybe Alan thought this well known piece
wasn't especially god relevant. Just ancient wisdom which is found in lots
of "religious" writings.
--
BTMS - Equine Advisor Extraordinaire.
Jane Vernon
2017-07-31 17:12:10 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Btms
How would you have begun? A general question to those who feel more
strongly negative than me. I found myself wondering what I would
have
Post by Btms
done.
Googling & finding a poem or similar that expressed a view which could
be expanded. Not turned to any particularly religious texts.
I am an atheist and have planned what I want at my funeral. It includes
the same bit from Ecclesiastes that they chose for Caroline. It's an
entirely secular sentiment, no mention of any higher being, heaven, hell
or any other religious concept. Just a beautiful piece of writing which
I hope will be helpful to those I leave behind.
--
Jane
The Potter in the Purple socks - to reply, please remove PURPLE
BTME

http://www.clothandclay.co.uk/umra/cookbook.htm - Umrats' recipes
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2017-07-31 18:57:41 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In message <***@mid.individual.net>, Jane Vernon
<***@gmail.com> writes:
[]
Post by Jane Vernon
I am an atheist and have planned what I want at my funeral. It
includes the same bit from Ecclesiastes that they chose for Caroline.
It's an entirely secular sentiment, no mention of any higher being,
heaven, hell or any other religious concept. Just a beautiful piece of
writing which I hope will be helpful to those I leave behind.
Have you found a version in modern English? The language of the King
James Bible, though pleasing of itself, has an association with
Christianity that it is impossible to ignore for many people (including
me). There are plenty of modern versions.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Experience is that marvelous thing that enables you to recognize a mistake when
you make it again. -Franklin P. Jones
Btms
2017-07-31 19:43:37 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by Jane Vernon
I am an atheist and have planned what I want at my funeral. It
includes the same bit from Ecclesiastes that they chose for Caroline.
It's an entirely secular sentiment, no mention of any higher being,
heaven, hell or any other religious concept. Just a beautiful piece of
writing which I hope will be helpful to those I leave behind.
Have you found a version in modern English? The language of the King
James Bible, though pleasing of itself, has an association with
Christianity that it is impossible to ignore for many people (including
me). There are plenty of modern versions.
But lacks the poetry; and this ay matter to some.
--
BTMS - Equine Advisor Extraordinaire.
Jane Vernon
2017-08-01 06:53:49 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Btms
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by Jane Vernon
I am an atheist and have planned what I want at my funeral. It
includes the same bit from Ecclesiastes that they chose for Caroline.
It's an entirely secular sentiment, no mention of any higher being,
heaven, hell or any other religious concept. Just a beautiful piece of
writing which I hope will be helpful to those I leave behind.
Have you found a version in modern English? The language of the King
James Bible, though pleasing of itself, has an association with
Christianity that it is impossible to ignore for many people (including
me). There are plenty of modern versions.
But lacks the poetry; and this ay matter to some.
Yes indeed. For me, it would cease to be the beautiful piece of writing
that I mentioned.
--
Jane
The Potter in the Purple socks - to reply, please remove PURPLE
BTME

http://www.clothandclay.co.uk/umra/cookbook.htm - Umrats' recipes
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2017-08-01 07:07:33 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Jane Vernon
Post by Btms
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by Jane Vernon
I am an atheist and have planned what I want at my funeral. It
includes the same bit from Ecclesiastes that they chose for Caroline.
It's an entirely secular sentiment, no mention of any higher being,
heaven, hell or any other religious concept. Just a beautiful piece of
writing which I hope will be helpful to those I leave behind.
Have you found a version in modern English? The language of the King
James Bible, though pleasing of itself, has an association with
Christianity that it is impossible to ignore for many people (including
me). There are plenty of modern versions.
But lacks the poetry; and this ay matter to some.
Yes indeed. For me, it would cease to be the beautiful piece of
writing that I mentioned.
Ah, so it isn't the sentiment, but the sound. Quite understand; my
father had a piece of German poetry (Wo die Zitronen' bluhm, or
something like that); I think it was _largely_ for the sound, as many
present did not speak German.

I do concede that it's probably _my_ problem that KJV English is
irretrievably bound up with Christianity, though I'm sure IANA in that.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Chuck Berry was once asked what he thought of Elvis Presley and he said, "He
got what he wanted, but he lost what he had." [Quoted by Anne Widdicombe, in
Radio Times 8-14 October 2011.]
Jane Vernon
2017-08-01 07:54:46 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Jane Vernon
Post by Btms
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by Jane Vernon
I am an atheist and have planned what I want at my funeral. It
includes the same bit from Ecclesiastes that they chose for Caroline.
It's an entirely secular sentiment, no mention of any higher being,
heaven, hell or any other religious concept. Just a beautiful piece of
writing which I hope will be helpful to those I leave behind.
Have you found a version in modern English? The language of the King
James Bible, though pleasing of itself, has an association with
Christianity that it is impossible to ignore for many people (including
me). There are plenty of modern versions.
But lacks the poetry; and this ay matter to some.
Yes indeed. For me, it would cease to be the beautiful piece of
writing that I mentioned.
Ah, so it isn't the sentiment, but the sound.
No, it IS the sentiment, absolutely. That is the main point. But any
sentiment is better conveyed in good writing, IMO.

Quite understand; my
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
father had a piece of German poetry (Wo die Zitronen' bluhm, or
something like that); I think it was _largely_ for the sound, as many
present did not speak German.
I do concede that it's probably _my_ problem that KJV English is
irretrievably bound up with Christianity, though I'm sure IANA in that.
--
Jane
The Potter in the Purple socks - to reply, please remove PURPLE
BTME

http://www.clothandclay.co.uk/umra/cookbook.htm - Umrats' recipes
Kate B
2017-08-01 09:19:40 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Jane Vernon
Post by Btms
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by Jane Vernon
I am an atheist and have planned what I want at my funeral. It
includes the same bit from Ecclesiastes that they chose for Caroline.
It's an entirely secular sentiment, no mention of any higher being,
heaven, hell or any other religious concept. Just a beautiful piece of
writing which I hope will be helpful to those I leave behind.
Have you found a version in modern English? The language of the King
James Bible, though pleasing of itself, has an association with
Christianity that it is impossible to ignore for many people (including
me). There are plenty of modern versions.
But lacks the poetry; and this ay matter to some.
Yes indeed. For me, it would cease to be the beautiful piece of
writing that I mentioned.
Ah, so it isn't the sentiment, but the sound. Quite understand; my
father had a piece of German poetry (Wo die Zitronen' bluhm, or
something like that); I think it was _largely_ for the sound, as many
present did not speak German.
Kennst Du das Land, wo die Zitronen bluh'n... It's Mignon's song, from
Goethe's book Wilhelm Meister, well-known in Germany and your father may
have known it from Schubert's setting.

It's very beautiful and quite apt for a funeral - in cold Germany,
Mignon longs for her Italian home, where the orange and lemon trees
blossom and fruit, where marble statues gleam in pillared houses; but
the way home lies over wild mountain passes where dragons lurk. 'Let us
go there, my beloved', she sings, 'oh father, let us go home!'
--
Kate B
London
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2017-08-01 19:07:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
[]
Post by Kate B
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Ah, so it isn't the sentiment, but the sound. Quite understand; my
father had a piece of German poetry (Wo die Zitronen' bluhm, or
something like that); I think it was _largely_ for the sound, as many
present did not speak German.
Kennst Du das Land, wo die Zitronen bluh'n... It's Mignon's song, from
Goethe's book Wilhelm Meister, well-known in Germany and your father
may have known it from Schubert's setting.
Thanks, that's it. He may have known that setting, though I don't
remember him ever being fond of Lieder; I think it was the spoken form
he liked.
Post by Kate B
It's very beautiful and quite apt for a funeral - in cold Germany,
Mignon longs for her Italian home, where the orange and lemon trees
blossom and fruit, where marble statues gleam in pillared houses; but
the way home lies over wild mountain passes where dragons lurk. 'Let us
go there, my beloved', she sings, 'oh father, let us go home!'
I had either forgotten, or I think never really cottoned on to that. But
I think it was mainly the rhythm and language he liked.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

To keep leaf vegetables clean and crisp, cook lightly, then plunge into iced
water (the vegetables, that is). - manual for a Russell Hobbs electric steamer
Fenny
2017-08-01 19:38:08 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Kate B
It's very beautiful and quite apt for a funeral - in cold Germany,
Mignon longs for her Italian home, where the orange and lemon trees
blossom and fruit, where marble statues gleam in pillared houses; but
the way home lies over wild mountain passes where dragons lurk. 'Let us
go there, my beloved', she sings, 'oh father, let us go home!'
Sounds like something they should use in Game of Thrones!
--
Fenny
BrritSki
2017-08-01 12:29:08 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Jane Vernon
Post by Btms
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by Jane Vernon
I am an atheist and have planned what I want at my funeral. It
includes the same bit from Ecclesiastes that they chose for Caroline.
It's an entirely secular sentiment, no mention of any higher being,
heaven, hell or any other religious concept. Just a beautiful piece of
writing which I hope will be helpful to those I leave behind.
Have you found a version in modern English? The language of the King
James Bible, though pleasing of itself, has an association with
Christianity that it is impossible to ignore for many people (including
me). There are plenty of modern versions.
But lacks the poetry; and this ay matter to some.
Yes indeed. For me, it would cease to be the beautiful piece of writing
that I mentioned.
<languid wave>

But it does sound religious and hence my comment about it being
unsuitable for La Bike.
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2017-08-01 19:12:56 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
[]
Post by Serena Blanchflower
Post by Jane Vernon
Post by Btms
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Have you found a version in modern English? The language of the King
James Bible, though pleasing of itself, has an association with
Christianity that it is impossible to ignore for many people (including
me). There are plenty of modern versions.
But lacks the poetry; and this ay matter to some.
Yes indeed. For me, it would cease to be the beautiful piece of
writing that I mentioned.
<languid wave>
But it does sound religious and hence my comment about it being
unsuitable for La Bike.
I'm glad someone else understands my (for want of a better word)
prejudice in this matter.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

To keep leaf vegetables clean and crisp, cook lightly, then plunge into iced
water (the vegetables, that is). - manual for a Russell Hobbs electric steamer
Sally Thompson
2017-08-02 07:46:56 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by Serena Blanchflower
Post by Jane Vernon
Post by Btms
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Have you found a version in modern English? The language of the King
James Bible, though pleasing of itself, has an association with
Christianity that it is impossible to ignore for many people (including
me). There are plenty of modern versions.
But lacks the poetry; and this ay matter to some.
Yes indeed. For me, it would cease to be the beautiful piece of
writing that I mentioned.
<languid wave>
But it does sound religious and hence my comment about it being
unsuitable for La Bike.
I'm glad someone else understands my (for want of a better word)
prejudice in this matter.
I didn't have any objection at all to the reading; I thought it was
entirely appropriate, but I wonder if some of the objections are because it
was read in a "vicar's voice"? I was listening to someone on the train the
other day (as I am wont to do!) and couldn't identify what it was about his
voice that was so particular until I worked out from the conversation that
he was a vicar. It has a particular intonation.
--
Sally in Shropshire, UK
Chris McMillan
2017-08-01 10:09:23 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by Jane Vernon
I am an atheist and have planned what I want at my funeral. It
includes the same bit from Ecclesiastes that they chose for Caroline.
It's an entirely secular sentiment, no mention of any higher being,
heaven, hell or any other religious concept. Just a beautiful piece of
writing which I hope will be helpful to those I leave behind.
Have you found a version in modern English? The language of the King
James Bible, though pleasing of itself, has an association with
Christianity that it is impossible to ignore for many people (including
me). There are plenty of modern versions.
You name it, you can probably find a version to suit. There are numerous
'modern' interpretations of the Bible available.

http://biblehub.com/net/ecclesiastes/3.htm. No mention of heaven here, and
basic English too.

Never heard of this translation

Sincerely Chris
Penny
2017-08-01 11:02:51 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Tue, 01 Aug 2017 10:09:23 GMT, Chris McMillan
Post by Chris McMillan
http://biblehub.com/net/ecclesiastes/3.htm. No mention of heaven here, and
basic English too.
Never heard of this translation
Me neither - not impressed.
"A time to rip, and a time to sew" has echoes of the earlier line (as KJB
has it) "a time to sow and a time to reap".

I first came across it in The Byrds rendering of the Pete Seeger song but
in my teens was so taken with the Robert Zelazny story "A rose for
Ecclesiastes", which I'd borrowed from the library, that I typed out a copy
of it - still got it somewhere.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Paul Herber
2017-08-01 13:19:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Penny
On Tue, 01 Aug 2017 10:09:23 GMT, Chris McMillan
Post by Chris McMillan
http://biblehub.com/net/ecclesiastes/3.htm. No mention of heaven here, and
basic English too.
Never heard of this translation
Me neither - not impressed.
"A time to rip, and a time to sew" has echoes of the earlier line (as KJB
has it) "a time to sow and a time to reap".
I first came across it in The Byrds rendering of the Pete Seeger song but
in my teens was so taken with the Robert Zelazny story "A rose for
Ecclesiastes", which I'd borrowed from the library, that I typed out a copy
of it - still got it somewhere.
Science Fiction Hall of Fame Volume II
--
Regards, Paul Herber
http://www.paulherber.co.uk/
Vicky
2017-08-01 17:05:48 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Paul Herber
Post by Penny
On Tue, 01 Aug 2017 10:09:23 GMT, Chris McMillan
Post by Chris McMillan
http://biblehub.com/net/ecclesiastes/3.htm. No mention of heaven here, and
basic English too.
Never heard of this translation
Me neither - not impressed.
"A time to rip, and a time to sew" has echoes of the earlier line (as KJB
has it) "a time to sow and a time to reap".
I first came across it in The Byrds rendering of the Pete Seeger song but
in my teens was so taken with the Robert Zelazny story "A rose for
Ecclesiastes", which I'd borrowed from the library, that I typed out a copy
of it - still got it somewhere.
Science Fiction Hall of Fame Volume II
I've been re-reading Asimov's The Complete Robot and BBC4 had a
programme about Robots on the iplayer that talked about some of the
issues he raised; will they take our jobs? Will they outstrip us in
various ways and be a danger to mankind etc.

I liked the Japanese view of them as they believe inanimate objects
have a spirit too, not just humans and animals. I'm pro-robot and am
keen to have a robot maid. I wanted a version of Mr Data from The
Next Generation years ago.
--
Vicky
Kate B
2017-08-01 22:05:52 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Vicky
Post by Paul Herber
Post by Penny
On Tue, 01 Aug 2017 10:09:23 GMT, Chris McMillan
Post by Chris McMillan
http://biblehub.com/net/ecclesiastes/3.htm. No mention of heaven here, and
basic English too.
Never heard of this translation
Me neither - not impressed.
"A time to rip, and a time to sew" has echoes of the earlier line (as KJB
has it) "a time to sow and a time to reap".
I first came across it in The Byrds rendering of the Pete Seeger song but
in my teens was so taken with the Robert Zelazny story "A rose for
Ecclesiastes", which I'd borrowed from the library, that I typed out a copy
of it - still got it somewhere.
Science Fiction Hall of Fame Volume II
I've been re-reading Asimov's The Complete Robot and BBC4 had a
programme about Robots on the iplayer that talked about some of the
issues he raised; will they take our jobs? Will they outstrip us in
various ways and be a danger to mankind etc.
I liked the Japanese view of them as they believe inanimate objects
have a spirit too, not just humans and animals. I'm pro-robot and am
keen to have a robot maid. I wanted a version of Mr Data from The
Next Generation years ago.
I want Mia from Humans.
--
Kate B
London
Vicky
2017-08-02 08:27:10 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Kate B
Post by Vicky
Post by Paul Herber
Post by Penny
On Tue, 01 Aug 2017 10:09:23 GMT, Chris McMillan
Post by Chris McMillan
http://biblehub.com/net/ecclesiastes/3.htm. No mention of heaven here, and
basic English too.
Never heard of this translation
Me neither - not impressed.
"A time to rip, and a time to sew" has echoes of the earlier line (as KJB
has it) "a time to sow and a time to reap".
I first came across it in The Byrds rendering of the Pete Seeger song but
in my teens was so taken with the Robert Zelazny story "A rose for
Ecclesiastes", which I'd borrowed from the library, that I typed out a copy
of it - still got it somewhere.
Science Fiction Hall of Fame Volume II
I've been re-reading Asimov's The Complete Robot and BBC4 had a
programme about Robots on the iplayer that talked about some of the
issues he raised; will they take our jobs? Will they outstrip us in
various ways and be a danger to mankind etc.
I liked the Japanese view of them as they believe inanimate objects
have a spirit too, not just humans and animals. I'm pro-robot and am
keen to have a robot maid. I wanted a version of Mr Data from The
Next Generation years ago.
I want Mia from Humans.
I did try one, maybe two episodes of that but didn't like it. It was
more a nasty world with a rebel group, as far as I saw. I liked the
film about a robot who is carer for an old man though. Male name,
umbrella. It seems that is likely in the near future.
--
Vicky
Jenny M Benson
2017-08-02 09:01:06 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Vicky
I've been re-reading Asimov's The Complete Robot and BBC4 had a
programme about Robots on the iplayer that talked about some of the
issues he raised; will they take our jobs? Will they outstrip us in
various ways and be a danger to mankind etc.
I liked the Japanese view of them as they believe inanimate objects
have a spirit too, not just humans and animals. I'm pro-robot and am
keen to have a robot maid. I wanted a version of Mr Data from The
Next Generation years ago.
One of my all-time-best-ever-favourite films is Bicentennial Man.
--
Jenny M Benson
Mike Headon
2017-08-02 09:53:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Jenny M Benson
Post by Vicky
I've been re-reading Asimov's The Complete Robot and BBC4 had a
programme about Robots on the iplayer that talked about some of the
issues he raised; will they take our jobs? Will they outstrip us in
various ways and be a danger to mankind etc.
I liked the Japanese view of them as they believe inanimate objects
have a spirit too, not just humans and animals. I'm pro-robot and am
keen to have a robot maid. I wanted a version of Mr Data from The
Next Generation years ago.
One of my all-time-best-ever-favourite films is Bicentennial Man.
Good grief, I didn't even know there was such a film - read the story,
of course.
--
Mike Headon
R69S R850R
IIIc IIIg FT FTn FT2 EOS450D
e-mail: mike dot headon at enn tee ell world dot com

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Clive Arthur
2017-08-01 10:39:35 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 31/07/2017 18:12, Jane Vernon wrote:

<snip>
Post by Jane Vernon
I am an atheist and have planned what I want at my funeral. It includes
the same bit from Ecclesiastes that they chose for Caroline. It's an
entirely secular sentiment, no mention of any higher being, heaven, hell
or any other religious concept. Just a beautiful piece of writing which
I hope will be helpful to those I leave behind.
Sod all that. The Ying Tong Song will do me.

Cheers
--
Clive
Fenny
2017-08-01 19:41:14 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Tue, 1 Aug 2017 11:39:35 +0100, Clive Arthur
Post by Clive Arthur
<snip>
Post by Jane Vernon
I am an atheist and have planned what I want at my funeral. It includes
the same bit from Ecclesiastes that they chose for Caroline. It's an
entirely secular sentiment, no mention of any higher being, heaven, hell
or any other religious concept. Just a beautiful piece of writing which
I hope will be helpful to those I leave behind.
Sod all that. The Ying Tong Song will do me.
Pa had a Goons EP that had The Ying Tong Song, I'm Walking Backwards
for Christmas and something that had Bloodknock and Rock & Roll in the
title. I'm sure he would enjoy any of those at his funeral (cos I
sure as Heck ain't gonna pick anything from the 1927 Golden Fiddle
Festival!).
--
Fenny
Mike Ruddock
2017-08-02 07:17:13 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Fenny
On Tue, 1 Aug 2017 11:39:35 +0100, Clive Arthur
Post by Clive Arthur
<snip>
Post by Jane Vernon
I am an atheist and have planned what I want at my funeral. It includes
the same bit from Ecclesiastes that they chose for Caroline. It's an
entirely secular sentiment, no mention of any higher being, heaven, hell
or any other religious concept. Just a beautiful piece of writing which
I hope will be helpful to those I leave behind.
Sod all that. The Ying Tong Song will do me.
Pa had a Goons EP that had The Ying Tong Song, I'm Walking Backwards
for Christmas and something that had Bloodknock and Rock & Roll in the
title.
Major Dennis Bloodknock's Rock and Roll-Call Rhumba if I remember
correctly (unlikely since that must have been current about 60 years ago.

Mike Ruddock

I'm sure he would enjoy any of those at his funeral (cos I
Post by Fenny
sure as Heck ain't gonna pick anything from the 1927 Golden Fiddle
Festival!).
Penny
2017-07-30 15:14:51 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sat, 29 Jul 2017 22:16:19 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by BrritSki
If Will had been there they wouldn't have been sure if the whining was
from him or from Caroline rotating in her coffin with that awful start
by Rev. Alan.
I think Willyum said he was going to speak - we were just spared hearing
him.
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Ah, glad I'm not the only one who found it cringeworthy.
I was reminded of the husgod's funeral. I don't think I'd ever heard of
humanist celebrants at that time and the village vicar (not the one I was
later attacked by) called in to see me and offered to conduct the service.
It didn't occur to me at the time he was just drumming up business - which
may have been the case - but we got along tolerably well and so I accepted
the offer on the understanding he would keep God out of it. He assured me
he would, his own brother being atheist. He didn't do a bad job but to my
mind failed to keep his promise.

Mind you, the whole 'event' was not what the husgod said he wanted. On the
one occasion we'd discussed it he said he didn't want a 'jazz' funeral. We
managed to avoid a marching band procession but his fellow musicians knew
what *they* wanted to do and I wasn't going to stop them.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Jenny M Benson
2017-07-30 18:47:13 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Penny
Mind you, the whole 'event' was not what the husgod said he wanted. On the
one occasion we'd discussed it he said he didn't want a 'jazz' funeral. We
managed to avoid a marching band procession but his fellow musicians knew
what*they* wanted to do and I wasn't going to stop them.
I've got mixed feelings about the idea of a funeral being "what the
deceased would have wanted."

When my mother asked if we wanted her to express her wishes or would
prefer to choose what we wanted, my sister immediately said, very
strongly, that she should tell us what she wanted, so I said nothing.
In the event, we followed Mum's (written) wishes to the letter.

I think that funerals are really for the benefit of the bereaved. It is
for them to "say goodbye" and should be largely what makes them feel
comforted. Of course, in most cases the mourners would not be
comfortable doing something the deceased would have hated. I can
imagine though, that some very deeply religious people might feel it
important to observe some practices which the deceased had no
interest/belief in.

I've told my children it's entirely up to them what they do with me, but
I would really like to "go out" to the Post Horn Gallop.
--
Jenny M Benson
Sally Thompson
2017-07-30 19:25:30 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Jenny M Benson
Post by Penny
Mind you, the whole 'event' was not what the husgod said he wanted. On the
one occasion we'd discussed it he said he didn't want a 'jazz' funeral. We
managed to avoid a marching band procession but his fellow musicians knew
what*they* wanted to do and I wasn't going to stop them.
I've got mixed feelings about the idea of a funeral being "what the
deceased would have wanted."
When my mother asked if we wanted her to express her wishes or would
prefer to choose what we wanted, my sister immediately said, very
strongly, that she should tell us what she wanted, so I said nothing.
In the event, we followed Mum's (written) wishes to the letter.
I think that funerals are really for the benefit of the bereaved. It is
for them to "say goodbye" and should be largely what makes them feel
comforted. Of course, in most cases the mourners would not be
comfortable doing something the deceased would have hated. I can
imagine though, that some very deeply religious people might feel it
important to observe some practices which the deceased had no
interest/belief in.
I've told my children it's entirely up to them what they do with me, but
I would really like to "go out" to the Post Horn Gallop.
That conjures up quite a picture of the coffin bearers trying to stay
solemn and keep up with the music.
--
Sally in Shropshire, UK
Jim Easterbrook
2017-08-01 06:36:59 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Sally Thompson
Post by Jenny M Benson
I've told my children it's entirely up to them what they do with me, but
I would really like to "go out" to the Post Horn Gallop.
That conjures up quite a picture of the coffin bearers trying to stay
solemn and keep up with the music.
You'd want Yakety Sax for the full effect.
--
Jim <http://www.jim-easterbrook.me.uk/>
1959/1985? M B+ G+ A L- I- S- P-- CH0(p) Ar++ T+ H0 Q--- Sh0
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2017-07-30 20:01:14 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Jenny M Benson
Post by Penny
Mind you, the whole 'event' was not what the husgod said he wanted. On the
one occasion we'd discussed it he said he didn't want a 'jazz' funeral. We
managed to avoid a marching band procession but his fellow musicians knew
what*they* wanted to do and I wasn't going to stop them.
I've got mixed feelings about the idea of a funeral being "what the
deceased would have wanted."
When my mother asked if we wanted her to express her wishes or would
prefer to choose what we wanted, my sister immediately said, very
strongly, that she should tell us what she wanted, so I said nothing.
In the event, we followed Mum's (written) wishes to the letter.
My Dad had planned his, and we followed it, I think. Mum's death was
rather sudden, and we'd never really discussed it - but I think what we
did (i. e. nothing) was what she'd have wanted: she was a quietly
militant atheist.
Post by Jenny M Benson
I think that funerals are really for the benefit of the bereaved. It
Definitely.
Post by Jenny M Benson
is for them to "say goodbye" and should be largely what makes them feel
comforted. Of course, in most cases the mourners would not be
comfortable doing something the deceased would have hated. I can
imagine though, that some very deeply religious people might feel it
important to observe some practices which the deceased had no
interest/belief in.
Not only that, but would be quite cross. I don't want anyone praying for
me, either during my lifetime or after.
Post by Jenny M Benson
I've told my children it's entirely up to them what they do with me,
but I would really like to "go out" to the Post Horn Gallop.
Ah, now we get to the fun part. (I like the Post Horn Galop; other
similar suitables might include the Ride of the Valkyries, Finlandia,
Elgar PCM1 [or 4], and the Devil's Gallop [aka Dick Barton].) Apparently
"Always look on the bright side of life", by (I think) Eric Idle, is
very popular; I rather fancy either "Sew on a Sequin" or "Cabaret" (or
both) - or maybe the Ballad of Barry and Freda (which I defy anyone not
to at least smile at); and my favourite, though it may be apocryphal, is
the cinema manager who had his final departure through the curtains to
the Pearl and Dean music.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

If you're playing a killer monster, be very quiet. -
Anthony Hopkins, RT 2016/10/22-28
Serena Blanchflower
2017-07-30 20:44:20 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Not only that, but would be quite cross. I don't want anyone praying for
me, either during my lifetime or after.
My grandmother felt like that and forbade us from having any kind of
funeral for her[1]. She used to say that if anyone prayed for her,
she'd come back to haunt us - I always claimed that this was the best
reason to pray for her that I could imagine ;)


[1] Those of us left behind found this quite difficult and, in
retrospect, I think my parents and uncle rather regretted not having
overruled her and had some kind of party, or event, to officially say
goodbye. I know that, when my aunt was dying, she said she didn't want
a funeral but my uncle refused to go along with that, as he'd found it
so upsetting with my grandmother.
--
Best wishes, Serena
One of the advantages of being disorganized is that one is always having
surprising discoveries. (A.A. Milne)
Penny
2017-07-30 21:22:55 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 21:44:20 +0100, Serena Blanchflower
Post by Serena Blanchflower
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Not only that, but would be quite cross. I don't want anyone praying for
me, either during my lifetime or after.
My grandmother felt like that and forbade us from having any kind of
funeral for her[1]. She used to say that if anyone prayed for her,
she'd come back to haunt us - I always claimed that this was the best
reason to pray for her that I could imagine ;)
:)
Post by Serena Blanchflower
[1] Those of us left behind found this quite difficult and, in
retrospect, I think my parents and uncle rather regretted not having
overruled her and had some kind of party, or event, to officially say
goodbye. I know that, when my aunt was dying, she said she didn't want
a funeral but my uncle refused to go along with that, as he'd found it
so upsetting with my grandmother.
Fair enough - funerals are for the living and I can understand the bereft
feeling they've been left in mid air - even more than they do anyway.
Besides, arranging such things gives one purpose, it's all part of the
process.

I you really don't want a funeral (or just resent the costs) you can donate
your whole body to 'science', just make sure you've signed the consent
form. Of course family and friends can still have a memorial/party if they
wish.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Fenny
2017-07-30 21:36:02 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Penny
I you really don't want a funeral (or just resent the costs) you can donate
your whole body to 'science', just make sure you've signed the consent
form. Of course family and friends can still have a memorial/party if they
wish.
Both my parents have declared that this is what they want to do and Ma
has got as far as contacting the university medical school. However,
even if you fill in all the forms, they can choose not to take you.
--
Fenny
Sally Thompson
2017-07-31 07:12:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Fenny
Post by Penny
I you really don't want a funeral (or just resent the costs) you can donate
your whole body to 'science', just make sure you've signed the consent
form. Of course family and friends can still have a memorial/party if they
wish.
Both my parents have declared that this is what they want to do and Ma
has got as far as contacting the university medical school. However,
even if you fill in all the forms, they can choose not to take you.
A friend has opted for this, but she said there all sorts of caveats, such
as that the body has to be "fresh" and not put in plastic (ie a body bag).
She has instructed her undertaker of choice.

I have to say from a personal view I can't bear the thought. I've spent a
lifetime hiding my embarrassing bits. I certainly don't want medical
students laughing at them when I can't protest.
--
Sally in Shropshire, UK
Fenny
2017-07-31 18:53:23 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 31 Jul 2017 07:12:22 GMT, Sally Thompson
Post by Sally Thompson
Post by Fenny
Post by Penny
I you really don't want a funeral (or just resent the costs) you can donate
your whole body to 'science', just make sure you've signed the consent
form. Of course family and friends can still have a memorial/party if they
wish.
Both my parents have declared that this is what they want to do and Ma
has got as far as contacting the university medical school. However,
even if you fill in all the forms, they can choose not to take you.
A friend has opted for this, but she said there all sorts of caveats, such
as that the body has to be "fresh" and not put in plastic (ie a body bag).
She has instructed her undertaker of choice.
I have to say from a personal view I can't bear the thought. I've spent a
lifetime hiding my embarrassing bits. I certainly don't want medical
students laughing at them when I can't protest.
Ma's view is that a) she's been a teacher all her life, so why stop
when she dies and b) she's had enough medical procedures done over the
years that plenty of people have seen her embarrasing bits already for
it to make no difference. And she's got enough things wrong with her
for them to find interesting.
--
Fenny
Chris McMillan
2017-08-01 09:54:23 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Fenny
On 31 Jul 2017 07:12:22 GMT, Sally Thompson
Post by Sally Thompson
Post by Fenny
Post by Penny
I you really don't want a funeral (or just resent the costs) you can donate
your whole body to 'science', just make sure you've signed the consent
form. Of course family and friends can still have a memorial/party if they
wish.
Both my parents have declared that this is what they want to do and Ma
has got as far as contacting the university medical school. However,
even if you fill in all the forms, they can choose not to take you.
A friend has opted for this, but she said there all sorts of caveats, such
as that the body has to be "fresh" and not put in plastic (ie a body bag).
She has instructed her undertaker of choice.
I have to say from a personal view I can't bear the thought. I've spent a
lifetime hiding my embarrassing bits. I certainly don't want medical
students laughing at them when I can't protest.
Ma's view is that a) she's been a teacher all her life, so why stop
when she dies and b) she's had enough medical procedures done over the
years that plenty of people have seen her embarrasing bits already for
it to make no difference. And she's got enough things wrong with her
for them to find interesting.
A friend of mine was born with one of the rare inter tissue connective
conditions that affects the world population so rarely, survivors worldwide
are in their hundreds. He was one of the most severely affected and made
arrangements for his body to be donated. He was *too* rare, there was no
money to research him. I was speechless when he'd made himself so
available to the limited research during his life.

Sincerely Chris
Vicky
2017-08-01 12:28:15 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Tue, 01 Aug 2017 09:54:23 GMT, Chris McMillan
Post by Chris McMillan
A friend of mine was born with one of the rare inter tissue connective
conditions that affects the world population so rarely, survivors worldwide
are in their hundreds. He was one of the most severely affected and made
arrangements for his body to be donated. He was *too* rare, there was no
money to research him. I was speechless when he'd made himself so
available to the limited research during his life.
Sincerely Chris
When I got cancer and had to have treatment I was advised by a friend,
whose wife had died of cancer a year or two before, to go for any
trial that was offered. I was attending Addenbrookes at the time as we
lived in that area then and was asked if I'd like to go on a limited
radiation trial. That meant having less than would have been usual and
I said yes. It meant less damage and also very careful monitoring. We
moved just under a year after the treatment and my care was
transferred to Watford. I see a lovely consultant every year to check
on my progress and he writes to the trial as well as to me and my GP.
I always see the one in charge and think maybe that's because it's a
trial.

There were issues with medication and later with bone density and I've
been referred very quickly to other consultants in those fields. I
think they'd usually stop checking me after 5 years but will go on for
10. Once I thought I had another lump and rang the consultant's
secretary and was seen in days. I think being on a trial is worth it.
--
Vicky
LFS
2017-08-01 15:46:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Vicky
On Tue, 01 Aug 2017 09:54:23 GMT, Chris McMillan
Post by Chris McMillan
A friend of mine was born with one of the rare inter tissue connective
conditions that affects the world population so rarely, survivors worldwide
are in their hundreds. He was one of the most severely affected and made
arrangements for his body to be donated. He was *too* rare, there was no
money to research him. I was speechless when he'd made himself so
available to the limited research during his life.
Sincerely Chris
When I got cancer and had to have treatment I was advised by a friend,
whose wife had died of cancer a year or two before, to go for any
trial that was offered. I was attending Addenbrookes at the time as we
lived in that area then and was asked if I'd like to go on a limited
radiation trial. That meant having less than would have been usual and
I said yes. It meant less damage and also very careful monitoring. We
moved just under a year after the treatment and my care was
transferred to Watford. I see a lovely consultant every year to check
on my progress and he writes to the trial as well as to me and my GP.
I always see the one in charge and think maybe that's because it's a
trial.
There were issues with medication and later with bone density and I've
been referred very quickly to other consultants in those fields. I
think they'd usually stop checking me after 5 years but will go on for
10. Once I thought I had another lump and rang the consultant's
secretary and was seen in days. I think being on a trial is worth it.
In Oxford you get lots of opportunities to be part of trials.

Son had febrile convulsions when he was one. We were asked if he could
be part of an epilepsy medication trial and we agreed as it meant he
would get a full neurological examination every six months. The daily
medication consisted of a tablet that had to be crushed up and given to
him in a teaspoon full of syrup. We never found out whether he was given
medication or a placebo. I think the sweet syrup did him quite a lot of
damage in the long run.

When Husband tore his Achilles tendon he was told that there were three
possible choices: he could have surgery and a plaster cast, just the
plaster cast or he could be part of a trial and pick whichever treatment
was written on a card taken at random out of a drawer. He was quite keen
on the card idea but I made the consultant explain all the pros and cons
and chose for him.
--
Laura (emulate St George for email)
Vicky
2017-07-30 21:46:45 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Penny
On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 21:44:20 +0100, Serena Blanchflower
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Not only that, but would be quite cross. I don't want anyone praying for
me, either during my lifetime or after.
Fair enough - funerals are for the living and I can understand the bereft
feeling they've been left in mid air - even more than they do anyway.
Besides, arranging such things gives one purpose, it's all part of the
process.
I you really don't want a funeral (or just resent the costs) you can donate
your whole body to 'science', just make sure you've signed the consent
form. Of course family and friends can still have a memorial/party if they
wish.
yes, I did sign up to donate for spare parts and science, but the
family are welcome to have a party if they want to.
--
Vicky
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2017-07-31 07:02:57 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In message <***@4ax.com>, Penny
<***@labyrinth.freeuk.com> writes:
[]
Post by Penny
I you really don't want a funeral (or just resent the costs) you can donate
your whole body to 'science', just make sure you've signed the consent
Most definitely +1. We knew that those were Mum's wishes, but she
hadn't, and we had no end of difficulty.
Post by Penny
form. Of course family and friends can still have a memorial/party if they
wish.
In our case it just wouldn't have seemed right - it would also have been
a major undertaking, in that friends were scattered over a large area
(certainly of the country, somewhat of the continent), and not that many
of them. Was difficult to convince Grandma that that was what Mum had
wanted, though.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Play dirty. If a fellow contestant asks the audience if they've got any
requests for what he or she should play, reply, "Yeah... Monopoly."
Penny
2017-07-30 21:10:14 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 19:47:13 +0100, Jenny M Benson <***@hotmail.co.uk>
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Jenny M Benson
I've told my children it's entirely up to them what they do with me, but
I would really like to "go out" to the Post Horn Gallop.
Ray 'went out' to the Ying Tong song :)

Which was largely my idea - I think it would all have ended in tears had we
gone with the only music any of us recalled Ray mentioning with regard to
his funeral - Dido's Lament - particularly in the Jeff Buckley version one
of his sons mentioned...
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Chris McMillan
2017-07-31 16:43:20 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Jenny M Benson
I've told my children it's entirely up to them what they do with me, but
I would really like to "go out" to the Post Horn Gallop.
Ray 'went out' to the Ying Tong song :)
Which was largely my idea - I think it would all have ended in tears had we
gone with the only music any of us recalled Ray mentioning with regard to
his funeral - Dido's Lament - particularly in the Jeff Buckley version one
of his sons mentioned...
Which, as two umrats had it at the reception would reduce me to giggles. A
friend of mine is likely to pass away soon if he has another stroke,
timevis not on his side. He lost a lot of his consciousness of life after
two biggies a few weeks ago. He's not old, his wife has put in place that
he will go directly to be cremated and there will be no funeral but there
will be a memorial service (may be two as they moved from the Midlands to S
Coast but have so many friends in the Midlands and family, it could be
easier that way. She personally does not want her last memory to be a box.
When you've known your husband since you were 12, and in the same class
from 13, and started going out at 14, you can see her point. Just
celebrated their 42nd wedding anniversary.

Sincerely Chris
Marjorie
2017-08-01 17:14:57 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Chris McMillan
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Jenny M Benson
I've told my children it's entirely up to them what they do with me, but
I would really like to "go out" to the Post Horn Gallop.
Ray 'went out' to the Ying Tong song :)
Which was largely my idea - I think it would all have ended in tears had we
gone with the only music any of us recalled Ray mentioning with regard to
his funeral - Dido's Lament - particularly in the Jeff Buckley version one
of his sons mentioned...
Which, as two umrats had it at the reception would reduce me to giggles. A
friend of mine is likely to pass away soon if he has another stroke,
timevis not on his side. He lost a lot of his consciousness of life after
two biggies a few weeks ago. He's not old, his wife has put in place that
he will go directly to be cremated and there will be no funeral but there
will be a memorial service (may be two as they moved from the Midlands to S
Coast but have so many friends in the Midlands and family, it could be
easier that way. She personally does not want her last memory to be a box.
When you've known your husband since you were 12, and in the same class
from 13, and started going out at 14, you can see her point. Just
celebrated their 42nd wedding anniversary.
That's how I did it for Tony. I may as well share this with you now that
the subject has come up. It is just over nine months ago now. Last
Sunday would have been our 47th wedding anniversary. Get your tissues
handy ...

His body was collected by the funeral director from the hospice for a
direct cremation. I had been with him while he died and afterwards, and
there was no need for me to see his body again, or ever see the coffin.
A few days later, the funeral directors took him to the crem - no one
else went with them, not even me. They told us when it would be, and did
the whole thing very respectfully, asking what clothes I had for him to
wear, and what music we would like them to play as they took him on his
last journey.

Then another ten days later, on a day to suit all the family, we had our
memorial ceremony at the Village Hall. This is a friendly place with
happy memories for me, and it seemed right to hold it there. The
ceremony was not unlike a funeral, but instead of a coffin, we had
Tony's ashes, displayed in a miniature stainless steel beer barrel from
the local brewery (he would have loved that!). I asked people to wear
their normal, colourful clothes, as it would have distressed me to see
everyone in black.

The funeral director gave helpful advice: don't just have a party, he
said, as people can feel cheated if you do that. They need a time to be
solemn and reflective and respectful. So we had readings: a wonderful
poem by Brian Patten called "So Many Different Lengths of Time", and
John Masefield's Sea Fever, as Tony had always loved the sea, and wanted
his ashes to go into the river Dart and be carried down to the sea ("And
a quite sleep and a sweet dream when the long trick's over"). I spoke,
as did both our daughters and a friend of Tony's, with fond
reminiscences and even some funny incidents recalled. Our granddaughter
sang the Irish/Scottish folk song The Parting Glass - she has the voice
of an angel and did it with tremendous poise and simplicity. Then to
finish, we played the Stones' "Out of Time" which was a favourite track
of Tony's, and one that he had once remarked would be a good song for a
funeral.

Then we all got up, put out tables and rearranged the furniture, and
served plenty of food and drink, which was something Tony had
specifically requested. There was a lovely positive vibe by this point,
and the hall was ringing with chatter and conversation.

On the stage we had spread out on tables lots of items to do with Tony's
life - things he had made or worn or used in his hobbies, certificates,
photos, favourite belongings, etc. People enjoyed looking at these and I
think everyone learned something they hadn't known about him.

So that was how we did it - a funeral with no body and no religion. Tony
had given his approval to the general idea, and I think he'd have been
tremendously impressed and proud of us all if he could have seen it. I
agree that a funeral is for the comfort of the living, but it also gives
me comfort to know how much he'd have liked what we did for him.
--
Marjorie

To reply, replace dontusethisaddress with marje
Vicky
2017-08-01 17:50:53 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Tue, 1 Aug 2017 18:14:57 +0100, Marjorie
Post by Marjorie
Post by Chris McMillan
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Jenny M Benson
I've told my children it's entirely up to them what they do with me, but
I would really like to "go out" to the Post Horn Gallop.
Ray 'went out' to the Ying Tong song :)
Which was largely my idea - I think it would all have ended in tears had we
gone with the only music any of us recalled Ray mentioning with regard to
his funeral - Dido's Lament - particularly in the Jeff Buckley version one
of his sons mentioned...
Which, as two umrats had it at the reception would reduce me to giggles. A
friend of mine is likely to pass away soon if he has another stroke,
timevis not on his side. He lost a lot of his consciousness of life after
two biggies a few weeks ago. He's not old, his wife has put in place that
he will go directly to be cremated and there will be no funeral but there
will be a memorial service (may be two as they moved from the Midlands to S
Coast but have so many friends in the Midlands and family, it could be
easier that way. She personally does not want her last memory to be a box.
When you've known your husband since you were 12, and in the same class
from 13, and started going out at 14, you can see her point. Just
celebrated their 42nd wedding anniversary.
That's how I did it for Tony. I may as well share this with you now that
the subject has come up. It is just over nine months ago now. Last
Sunday would have been our 47th wedding anniversary. Get your tissues
handy ...
His body was collected by the funeral director from the hospice for a
direct cremation. I had been with him while he died and afterwards, and
there was no need for me to see his body again, or ever see the coffin.
A few days later, the funeral directors took him to the crem - no one
else went with them, not even me. They told us when it would be, and did
the whole thing very respectfully, asking what clothes I had for him to
wear, and what music we would like them to play as they took him on his
last journey.
Then another ten days later, on a day to suit all the family, we had our
memorial ceremony at the Village Hall. This is a friendly place with
happy memories for me, and it seemed right to hold it there. The
ceremony was not unlike a funeral, but instead of a coffin, we had
Tony's ashes, displayed in a miniature stainless steel beer barrel from
the local brewery (he would have loved that!). I asked people to wear
their normal, colourful clothes, as it would have distressed me to see
everyone in black.
The funeral director gave helpful advice: don't just have a party, he
said, as people can feel cheated if you do that. They need a time to be
solemn and reflective and respectful. So we had readings: a wonderful
poem by Brian Patten called "So Many Different Lengths of Time", and
John Masefield's Sea Fever, as Tony had always loved the sea, and wanted
his ashes to go into the river Dart and be carried down to the sea ("And
a quite sleep and a sweet dream when the long trick's over"). I spoke,
as did both our daughters and a friend of Tony's, with fond
reminiscences and even some funny incidents recalled. Our granddaughter
sang the Irish/Scottish folk song The Parting Glass - she has the voice
of an angel and did it with tremendous poise and simplicity. Then to
finish, we played the Stones' "Out of Time" which was a favourite track
of Tony's, and one that he had once remarked would be a good song for a
funeral.
Then we all got up, put out tables and rearranged the furniture, and
served plenty of food and drink, which was something Tony had
specifically requested. There was a lovely positive vibe by this point,
and the hall was ringing with chatter and conversation.
On the stage we had spread out on tables lots of items to do with Tony's
life - things he had made or worn or used in his hobbies, certificates,
photos, favourite belongings, etc. People enjoyed looking at these and I
think everyone learned something they hadn't known about him.
So that was how we did it - a funeral with no body and no religion. Tony
had given his approval to the general idea, and I think he'd have been
tremendously impressed and proud of us all if he could have seen it. I
agree that a funeral is for the comfort of the living, but it also gives
me comfort to know how much he'd have liked what we did for him.
That sounds lovely. I like Sea Fever too. And the songs chosen, and
the last event to remember someone after they died that I went to was
one where we, too, were asked to wear bright colours, not black.
--
Vicky
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2017-08-01 19:11:05 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Vicky
On Tue, 1 Aug 2017 18:14:57 +0100, Marjorie
[]
Post by Vicky
Post by Marjorie
So that was how we did it - a funeral with no body and no religion. Tony
had given his approval to the general idea, and I think he'd have been
tremendously impressed and proud of us all if he could have seen it. I
agree that a funeral is for the comfort of the living, but it also gives
me comfort to know how much he'd have liked what we did for him.
That sounds lovely.
+1. Very satisfying.
Post by Vicky
I like Sea Fever too. And the songs chosen, and
the last event to remember someone after they died that I went to was
one where we, too, were asked to wear bright colours, not black.
Unfortunately, I can never hear Sea Fever without thinking of a rather
fine parody of it (involving a vest). But I know what you mean - I
rather like Sea Fever too. It has resonances that - er - resonate with
me, though I've never been into sailing etcetera; maybe it's national
sub-consciousness.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

To keep leaf vegetables clean and crisp, cook lightly, then plunge into iced
water (the vegetables, that is). - manual for a Russell Hobbs electric steamer
Sally Thompson
2017-08-02 07:46:55 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Vicky
On Tue, 1 Aug 2017 18:14:57 +0100, Marjorie
[]
Post by Vicky
Post by Marjorie
So that was how we did it - a funeral with no body and no religion. Tony
had given his approval to the general idea, and I think he'd have been
tremendously impressed and proud of us all if he could have seen it. I
agree that a funeral is for the comfort of the living, but it also gives
me comfort to know how much he'd have liked what we did for him.
That sounds lovely.
+1. Very satisfying.
Post by Vicky
I like Sea Fever too. And the songs chosen, and
the last event to remember someone after they died that I went to was
one where we, too, were asked to wear bright colours, not black.
Unfortunately, I can never hear Sea Fever without thinking of a rather
fine parody of it (involving a vest). But I know what you mean - I
rather like Sea Fever too. It has resonances that - er - resonate with
me, though I've never been into sailing etcetera; maybe it's national
sub-consciousness.
We had a humanist funeral for my father, and since he had been in the
Merchant Navy for many years we had Sea Fever too. I also tracked down a
Welsh lament he had often spoken about that had been played at his school.
I'd never found it in his lifetime, but pulled out all the stops of the
Internet to find it for that occasion.
--
Sally in Shropshire, UK
BrritSki
2017-08-01 20:41:04 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
<snio>
So that was how we did it - a funeral with no body and no religion. Tony
had given his approval to the general idea, and I think he'd have been
tremendously impressed and proud of us all if he could have seen it. I
agree that a funeral is for the comfort of the living, but it also gives
me comfort to know how much he'd have liked what we did for him.
Lovely <sniff>
Kate B
2017-08-01 22:07:42 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Marjorie
So that was how we did it - a funeral with no body and no religion. Tony
had given his approval to the general idea, and I think he'd have been
tremendously impressed and proud of us all if he could have seen it. I
agree that a funeral is for the comfort of the living, but it also gives
me comfort to know how much he'd have liked what we did for him.
What a lovely thing to do for him and for you.
--
Kate B
London
Fenny
2017-07-30 21:33:23 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 19:47:13 +0100, Jenny M Benson
Post by Jenny M Benson
I've told my children it's entirely up to them what they do with me, but
I would really like to "go out" to the Post Horn Gallop.
My aunt went through the curtains to "Je ne regret rien".
--
Fenny
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2017-07-31 07:04:27 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Penny
On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 19:47:13 +0100, Jenny M Benson
Post by Jenny M Benson
I've told my children it's entirely up to them what they do with me, but
I would really like to "go out" to the Post Horn Gallop.
My aunt went through the curtains to "Je ne regret rien".
To floods of tears by all, I imagine: even in no context, for some
reason, any of Piaf's four major hits make me teary.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Play dirty. If a fellow contestant asks the audience if they've got any
requests for what he or she should play, reply, "Yeah... Monopoly."
Mike Ruddock
2017-07-31 07:26:03 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Penny
On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 19:47:13 +0100, Jenny M Benson
Post by Jenny M Benson
I've told my children it's entirely up to them what they do with me, but
I would really like to "go out" to the Post Horn Gallop.
My aunt went through the curtains to "Je ne regret rien".
I have left a letter saying that if anyone plays either "Je ne regret
rien" or "I did it my way", I will come back and haunt them.

Mike Ruddock
Penny
2017-07-31 09:31:00 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Mon, 31 Jul 2017 08:26:03 +0100, Mike Ruddock
Post by Mike Ruddock
Post by Penny
On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 19:47:13 +0100, Jenny M Benson
Post by Jenny M Benson
I've told my children it's entirely up to them what they do with me, but
I would really like to "go out" to the Post Horn Gallop.
My aunt went through the curtains to "Je ne regret rien".
I have left a letter saying that if anyone plays either "Je ne regret
rien" or "I did it my way", I will come back and haunt them.
:)
I attended the funeral of a village person whose family are friends of
mine. I was slightly surprised when 'Simply the Best' was played for the
committal until I remembered the family surname is Best.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Sam Plusnet
2017-07-31 21:35:23 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mike Ruddock
Post by Penny
On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 19:47:13 +0100, Jenny M Benson
Post by Jenny M Benson
I've told my children it's entirely up to them what they do with me, but
I would really like to "go out" to the Post Horn Gallop.
My aunt went through the curtains to "Je ne regret rien".
I have left a letter saying that if anyone plays either "Je ne regret
rien" or "I did it my way", I will come back and haunt them.
Thanks Mike.
I was about to post that Ms Piaf's greatest hit is "I did it my Way" in
foreign - but you beat me to it.
--
Sam
Jane Vernon
2017-08-01 06:55:27 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Mike Ruddock
Post by Penny
On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 19:47:13 +0100, Jenny M Benson
Post by Jenny M Benson
I've told my children it's entirely up to them what they do with me, but
I would really like to "go out" to the Post Horn Gallop.
My aunt went through the curtains to "Je ne regret rien".
I have left a letter saying that if anyone plays either "Je ne regret
rien" or "I did it my way", I will come back and haunt them.
Thanks Mike.
I was about to post that Ms Piaf's greatest hit is "I did it my Way" in
foreign - but you beat me to it.
I chose "Je ne regret rien" for Mike's funeral, to represent his deep
love of France and the French and as a testament to him being his own
person. I don't think anyone found it cheesy.
--
Jane
The Potter in the Purple socks - to reply, please remove PURPLE
BTME

http://www.clothandclay.co.uk/umra/cookbook.htm - Umrats' recipes
BrritSki
2017-08-01 12:31:27 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Jane Vernon
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Mike Ruddock
Post by Penny
On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 19:47:13 +0100, Jenny M Benson
Post by Jenny M Benson
I've told my children it's entirely up to them what they do with me, but
I would really like to "go out" to the Post Horn Gallop.
My aunt went through the curtains to "Je ne regret rien".
I have left a letter saying that if anyone plays either "Je ne regret
rien" or "I did it my way", I will come back and haunt them.
Thanks Mike.
I was about to post that Ms Piaf's greatest hit is "I did it my Way"
in foreign - but you beat me to it.
I chose "Je ne regret rien" for Mike's funeral, to represent his deep
love of France and the French and as a testament to him being his own
person. I don't think anyone found it cheesy.
I have recently added Mr. Tambourine Man

# that may forget about today until tomorrow #

to Blue for my funeral...

# you can make it through theses days #
Jane Vernon
2017-08-01 17:00:07 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by BrritSki
Post by Jane Vernon
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Mike Ruddock
Post by Penny
On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 19:47:13 +0100, Jenny M Benson
Post by Jenny M Benson
I've told my children it's entirely up to them what they do with me, but
I would really like to "go out" to the Post Horn Gallop.
My aunt went through the curtains to "Je ne regret rien".
I have left a letter saying that if anyone plays either "Je ne
regret rien" or "I did it my way", I will come back and haunt them.
Thanks Mike.
I was about to post that Ms Piaf's greatest hit is "I did it my Way"
in foreign - but you beat me to it.
I chose "Je ne regret rien" for Mike's funeral, to represent his deep
love of France and the French and as a testament to him being his own
person. I don't think anyone found it cheesy.
I have recently added Mr. Tambourine Man
Mike1 had that.

And if you hear vague traces of skipping reels of rhyme
To your tambourine in time
It's just a ragged clown behind
I wouldn't pay it any mind
It's just a shadow you're seeing that he's chasing

made me think that he was dancing away just behind us somewhere.
--
Jane
The Potter in the Purple socks - to reply, please remove PURPLE
BTME

http://www.clothandclay.co.uk/umra/cookbook.htm - Umrats' recipes
Sam Plusnet
2017-07-31 21:39:48 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Penny
On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 19:47:13 +0100, Jenny M Benson
Post by Jenny M Benson
I've told my children it's entirely up to them what they do with me, but
I would really like to "go out" to the Post Horn Gallop.
My aunt went through the curtains to "Je ne regret rien".
SWMBO has stated that she wants Mr Satie's Gymnopedie No. 1.

Fair enough.

I had a sudden thought of a 33rpm LP played at 45rpm, which might make a
difference.
--
Sam
Chris McMillan
2017-07-31 16:28:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Jenny M Benson
Post by Penny
Mind you, the whole 'event' was not what the husgod said he wanted. On the
one occasion we'd discussed it he said he didn't want a 'jazz' funeral. We
managed to avoid a marching band procession but his fellow musicians knew
what*they* wanted to do and I wasn't going to stop them.
I've got mixed feelings about the idea of a funeral being "what the
deceased would have wanted."
When my mother asked if we wanted her to express her wishes or would
prefer to choose what we wanted, my sister immediately said, very
strongly, that she should tell us what she wanted, so I said nothing.
In the event, we followed Mum's (written) wishes to the letter.
I think that funerals are really for the benefit of the bereaved. It is
for them to "say goodbye" and should be largely what makes them feel
comforted. Of course, in most cases the mourners would not be
comfortable doing something the deceased would have hated. I can
imagine though, that some very deeply religious people might feel it
important to observe some practices which the deceased had no
interest/belief in.
I've told my children it's entirely up to them what they do with me, but
I would really like to "go out" to the Post Horn Gallop.
I have very precise instructions from stepmum, with a tiny variation they
are what my dad wanted and had,
But on the whole the people there will understand why it is what it will
be, and while she didn't want anything said about her life (very private
she is), she has written something which I think her vicar may have tucked
away. And I am going to carry it out. It reflects her character and beliefs
(and no one can complain they couldn't sing the hymns!) Having seen
stepmum's expression at funerals a few times as funerals have changed over
the decades I know her feelings. And there's always the wake where a more
enjoyable set of memories could be shared by those who know her better
than I do such as her friends, some of whom were met as mature students and
then like her migrated to Reading or her much younger cousins who I hardly
know, friends she made after I left home too who can encompass memories of
dad. At 90, this may be sooner rather than later. I don't think she'll
live to the great age of Mike's older sister's mum in law - 104 in Sept and
still in decent physical and mental health.

Sincerely Chris
Serena Blanchflower
2017-07-30 12:22:33 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by BrritSki
Post by Btms
Post by Vicky
On Sat, 29 Jul 2017 13:10:16 GMT, Chris McMillan
Post by Chris McMillan
Post by BrritSki
Post by steveski
Post by Vicky
I thought this was very well done. I spend a lot of time
complaining so
should say when they get it right :). It felt like a proper goodbye for
Caroline and for her cousin too for the people of Ambridge, the actors
and for us as well.
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
I hadn't had any particulary strong emotions about Caroline's death
(apart from the ones about her best friend's real passing) but Oliver and
Ed's chat had me welling up a bit.
YANAOU
Rite of passage for Ed, that. Would be nice now to hear Willyerm's
thoughts on his godmother voiced to Clarrie rather than Nick. Her passing
might bring them to a better relationship in their shared grief.
Sincerely Chris
I suppose there is always the possibility that all will not be
sweetness and light when the will is read, although presumably Oliver
knows what is in it. William is the actual godson, but she was good
to Ed. I am surprised we didn't hear Will speak at the funeral. Maybe
the BBC couldn't afford both him and Ed and all the rest who spoke.
Willyerm is so boring, I guess nobody could imagine him making a
contribution of value.
If Will had been there they wouldn't have been sure if the whining was
from him or from Caroline rotating in her coffin with that awful start
by Rev. Alan.
<languid wave>
--
Best wishes, Serena
You can't stay in your corner of the Forest waiting for others to come
to you. You have to go to them sometimes. (A.A. Milne)
Loading...