Discussion:
house maintenance
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Btms
2017-07-02 09:59:29 UTC
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Sounds like the writers or Fallon imagine that if you own a house you can
get a plumber or central heating engineer at the drop of a hat.
the Omrud
2017-07-02 10:56:55 UTC
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Post by Btms
Sounds like the writers or Fallon imagine that if you own a house you can
get a plumber or central heating engineer at the drop of a hat.
If you rent out your house, should you not have a maintenance contract
for central heating?
--
David
Mike
2017-07-02 11:18:24 UTC
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Post by the Omrud
Post by Btms
Sounds like the writers or Fallon imagine that if you own a house you can
get a plumber or central heating engineer at the drop of a hat.
If you rent out your house, should you not have a maintenance contract
for central heating?
I thought that too.
--
Toodle Pip
Btms
2017-07-02 14:56:38 UTC
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Post by Mike
Post by the Omrud
Post by Btms
Sounds like the writers or Fallon imagine that if you own a house you can
get a plumber or central heating engineer at the drop of a hat.
If you rent out your house, should you not have a maintenance contract
for central heating?
I thought that too.
No you shouldn't "have" to, but even then service is not 24/7. It is the
same as being an owner. Cardboard does not have an agent. An agent wd
have more pulling power but the rent wd probably be higher.
--
BTMS - Equine Advisor Extraordinaire.
Mike
2017-07-02 15:16:56 UTC
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Post by Btms
Post by Mike
Post by the Omrud
Post by Btms
Sounds like the writers or Fallon imagine that if you own a house you can
get a plumber or central heating engineer at the drop of a hat.
If you rent out your house, should you not have a maintenance contract
for central heating?
I thought that too.
No you shouldn't "have" to, but even then service is not 24/7. It is the
same as being an owner. Cardboard does not have an agent. An agent wd
have more pulling power but the rent wd probably be higher.
Don't worry, they are policing the situation...
--
Toodle Pip
the Omrud
2017-07-02 16:15:44 UTC
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Post by Btms
Post by Mike
Post by the Omrud
Post by Btms
Sounds like the writers or Fallon imagine that if you own a house you can
get a plumber or central heating engineer at the drop of a hat.
If you rent out your house, should you not have a maintenance contract
for central heating?
I thought that too.
No you shouldn't "have" to, but even then service is not 24/7. It is the
same as being an owner. Cardboard does not have an agent. An agent wd
have more pulling power but the rent wd probably be higher.
I don't believe that I suggested that it should be mandatory (I
certainly didn't intend to suggest that). Merely that it's something a
landlord should do, as a matter of convenience.
--
David
Btms
2017-07-02 18:23:42 UTC
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Post by the Omrud
Post by Btms
Post by Mike
Post by the Omrud
Post by Btms
Sounds like the writers or Fallon imagine that if you own a house you can
get a plumber or central heating engineer at the drop of a hat.
If you rent out your house, should you not have a maintenance contract
for central heating?
I thought that too.
No you shouldn't "have" to, but even then service is not 24/7. It is the
same as being an owner. Cardboard does not have an agent. An agent wd
have more pulling power but the rent wd probably be higher.
I don't believe that I suggested that it should be mandatory (I
certainly didn't intend to suggest that). Merely that it's something a
landlord should do, as a matter of convenience.
Understood manadatory was the message because of the word "should".
--
BTMS - Equine Advisor Extraordinaire.
John Ashby
2017-07-02 20:22:43 UTC
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Post by Btms
Post by the Omrud
I don't believe that I suggested that it should be mandatory (I
certainly didn't intend to suggest that). Merely that it's
something a
Post by Btms
Post by the Omrud
landlord should do, as a matter of convenience.
Understood manadatory was the message because of the word "should".
In the world of standards I believe that "should" is advisory,
mandatory is "must".

John
Fenny
2017-07-02 12:23:47 UTC
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Post by the Omrud
Post by Btms
Sounds like the writers or Fallon imagine that if you own a house you can
get a plumber or central heating engineer at the drop of a hat.
If you rent out your house, should you not have a maintenance contract
for central heating?
No, but you need to have a landlord gas safety certificate and have
the gas appliances inspected every year.

I was more bothered about the electrics. IIRC, Christine's house was
affected by the flood. Was it her house that had a huge crack in the
floor or similar affliction?

Surely if it needed remedial building work done a couple of years ago
and was flooded, they would have needed to do at least some
maintenance to the downstairs electrical circuits, which would have
been affected by water. So exactly what work was done and why is the
place seemingly falling apart so quickly afterwards?
--
Fenny
the Omrud
2017-07-02 16:18:48 UTC
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Post by Fenny
Post by the Omrud
Post by Btms
Sounds like the writers or Fallon imagine that if you own a house you can
get a plumber or central heating engineer at the drop of a hat.
If you rent out your house, should you not have a maintenance contract
for central heating?
No, but you need to have a landlord gas safety certificate and have
the gas appliances inspected every year.
I seem not to have been clear, but re-reading my sentence above, I still
don't see that I suggsted that I think it is, or should be, mandatory.

Like: if you're planning a long drive, should you not eat before you leave?
--
David
Fenny
2017-07-02 17:16:12 UTC
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Post by the Omrud
Post by Fenny
Post by the Omrud
Post by Btms
Sounds like the writers or Fallon imagine that if you own a house you can
get a plumber or central heating engineer at the drop of a hat.
If you rent out your house, should you not have a maintenance contract
for central heating?
No, but you need to have a landlord gas safety certificate and have
the gas appliances inspected every year.
I seem not to have been clear, but re-reading my sentence above, I still
don't see that I suggsted that I think it is, or should be, mandatory.
Like: if you're planning a long drive, should you not eat before you leave?
Well, I have central heating cover and it took a week to get someone
out to it when the boiler went. If the landlord is forking out in
excess of £250 a year for heating cover, the rent will have to cover
it.
--
Fenny
Btms
2017-07-02 18:23:42 UTC
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Post by the Omrud
Post by Fenny
Post by the Omrud
Post by Btms
Sounds like the writers or Fallon imagine that if you own a house you can
get a plumber or central heating engineer at the drop of a hat.
If you rent out your house, should you not have a maintenance contract
for central heating?
No, but you need to have a landlord gas safety certificate and have
the gas appliances inspected every year.
I seem not to have been clear, but re-reading my sentence above, I still
don't see that I suggsted that I think it is, or should be, mandatory.
Like: if you're planning a long drive, should you not eat before you leave?
Not necessarily. Who says I should!
--
BTMS - Equine Advisor Extraordinaire.
Vicky
2017-07-02 19:04:31 UTC
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Post by Btms
Post by the Omrud
Post by Fenny
Post by the Omrud
Post by Btms
Sounds like the writers or Fallon imagine that if you own a house you can
get a plumber or central heating engineer at the drop of a hat.
If you rent out your house, should you not have a maintenance contract
for central heating?
No, but you need to have a landlord gas safety certificate and have
the gas appliances inspected every year.
I seem not to have been clear, but re-reading my sentence above, I still
don't see that I suggsted that I think it is, or should be, mandatory.
Like: if you're planning a long drive, should you not eat before you leave?
Not necessarily. Who says I should!
I thought should there is short for wouldn't it be best to
--
Vicky
Fenny
2017-07-02 21:12:22 UTC
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Post by Vicky
Post by Btms
Post by the Omrud
Post by Fenny
Post by the Omrud
Post by Btms
Sounds like the writers or Fallon imagine that if you own a house you can
get a plumber or central heating engineer at the drop of a hat.
If you rent out your house, should you not have a maintenance contract
for central heating?
No, but you need to have a landlord gas safety certificate and have
the gas appliances inspected every year.
I seem not to have been clear, but re-reading my sentence above, I still
don't see that I suggsted that I think it is, or should be, mandatory.
Like: if you're planning a long drive, should you not eat before you leave?
Not necessarily. Who says I should!
I thought should there is short for wouldn't it be best to
Depends on time of day, traffic conditions, what's likely to be
happening at the other end, etc, etc.
--
Fenny
steveski
2017-07-02 21:32:41 UTC
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On Sun, 02 Jul 2017 17:18:48 +0100, the Omrud wrote:

[]
Post by the Omrud
Like: if you're planning a long drive, should you not eat before you leave?
Gravel?
--
Steveski
Penny
2017-07-02 22:06:45 UTC
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On 2 Jul 2017 21:32:41 GMT, steveski <***@invalid.com> scrawled in the
dust...
Post by steveski
[]
Post by the Omrud
Like: if you're planning a long drive, should you not eat before you leave?
Gravel?
Shoots shirley?
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
BrritSki
2017-07-03 06:39:33 UTC
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Post by Penny
dust...
Post by steveski
[]
Post by the Omrud
Like: if you're planning a long drive, should you not eat before you leave?
Gravel?
Shoots shirley?
And leaves.
.
.
.
Look, you started this explaining jokes OK ? ;)
BrritSki
2017-07-03 06:37:44 UTC
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Post by steveski
[]
Post by the Omrud
Like: if you're planning a long drive, should you not eat before you leave?
Gravel?
That would be a shit drive.
krw
2017-07-02 21:53:16 UTC
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Post by Fenny
So exactly what work was done and why is the
place seemingly falling apart so quickly afterwards?
The editor is in total ignorance as well or this story would not be as
it is.
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
tiny.cc/KRWpics
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2017-07-02 14:56:52 UTC
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Post by the Omrud
Post by Btms
Sounds like the writers or Fallon imagine that if you own a house you can
get a plumber or central heating engineer at the drop of a hat.
If you rent out your house, should you not have a maintenance contract
for central heating?
I don't think there's any actual obligation to. Tenants might have
expectations of a speedier response to faults than they'd have in a home
of their own (or have some right to withhold some of their rent until,
after a short interval), but how a landlord chooses to _provide_ any
such maintenance isn't AFAIK stipulated by law.

IANAL, though.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Electricians do it 'till it Hz.
krw
2017-07-02 21:55:47 UTC
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Post by Btms
Sounds like the writers or Fallon imagine that if you own a house you can
get a plumber or central heating engineer at the drop of a hat.
What I do not understand is Lilian. She runs a property business and
rents them out. I have a friend who has done this in the past. I
always ask her who she used to use and mentioning her name means that
the trades person assists - because they know my friend and know the
recommendation is worth maintaining.

So why Lilian cannot do this I do not understand.
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
tiny.cc/KRWpics
krw
2017-07-02 22:00:42 UTC
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Post by Btms
Sounds like the writers or Fallon imagine that if you own a house you can
get a plumber or central heating engineer at the drop of a hat.
Oh and given that Christine's place was heavily refurbished surely the
hot water tank has an immersion heater which can be turned on when the
boiler packs up.

We had ours replaced last year (I think) and survived on the immersion
heater until they were able to do it.

Is the village detached from electricity?
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
tiny.cc/KRWpics
Vicky
2017-07-02 22:08:57 UTC
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Post by krw
Post by Btms
Sounds like the writers or Fallon imagine that if you own a house you can
get a plumber or central heating engineer at the drop of a hat.
Oh and given that Christine's place was heavily refurbished surely the
hot water tank has an immersion heater which can be turned on when the
boiler packs up.
We had ours replaced last year (I think) and survived on the immersion
heater until they were able to do it.
Is the village detached from electricity?
The house we bought in 1979 had an immersion heater as well as a CH
system. They've been around for a while.
--
Vicky
krw
2017-07-02 23:13:43 UTC
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Post by Vicky
The house we bought in 1979 had an immersion heater as well as a CH
system. They've been around for a while.
I bought a flat in '78 and that had one as well. It broke after a few
months and as it was the only way of heating the tank it had to be
replaced before I had hot water again.
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
tiny.cc/KRWpics
Penny
2017-07-02 23:59:13 UTC
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On Mon, 3 Jul 2017 00:13:43 +0100, krw <***@whitnet.uk> scrawled in the
dust...
Post by krw
Post by Vicky
The house we bought in 1979 had an immersion heater as well as a CH
system. They've been around for a while.
I bought a flat in '78 and that had one as well. It broke after a few
months and as it was the only way of heating the tank it had to be
replaced before I had hot water again.
We moved into an all electric house in 1965 - previous owner was American
and had originally used it as her place-in-the-country. One of the first
things my parents did was build an extension which, amongst other things,
housed a huge oil-fired boiler to run the heating and hot water. They did
keep the immersion heater as back-up though.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
LFS
2017-07-03 08:15:23 UTC
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Post by Vicky
Post by krw
Post by Btms
Sounds like the writers or Fallon imagine that if you own a house you can
get a plumber or central heating engineer at the drop of a hat.
Oh and given that Christine's place was heavily refurbished surely the
hot water tank has an immersion heater which can be turned on when the
boiler packs up.
We had ours replaced last year (I think) and survived on the immersion
heater until they were able to do it.
Is the village detached from electricity?
The house we bought in 1979 had an immersion heater as well as a CH
system. They've been around for a while.
When we had our boiler replaced, we had lengthy discussions about the
wisdom of removing the tank in the airing cupboard. I pointed out that
without it we would not have the backup of the immersion heater but the
boiler installer thought this was daft as the new boiler would not need
a backup. Needless to say, there have been several occasions since when
we have been very glad to have the immersion heater...
--
Laura (emulate St George for email)
Mike
2017-07-03 08:22:02 UTC
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Post by LFS
Post by Vicky
Post by krw
Post by Btms
Sounds like the writers or Fallon imagine that if you own a house you can
get a plumber or central heating engineer at the drop of a hat.
Oh and given that Christine's place was heavily refurbished surely the
hot water tank has an immersion heater which can be turned on when the
boiler packs up.
We had ours replaced last year (I think) and survived on the immersion
heater until they were able to do it.
Is the village detached from electricity?
The house we bought in 1979 had an immersion heater as well as a CH
system. They've been around for a while.
When we had our boiler replaced, we had lengthy discussions about the
wisdom of removing the tank in the airing cupboard. I pointed out that
without it we would not have the backup of the immersion heater but the
boiler installer thought this was daft as the new boiler would not need
a backup. Needless to say, there have been several occasions since when
we have been very glad to have the immersion heater...
Yup, agree with this plan, same thing has happened to us; the belt fails
and one can then use the braces.
--
Toodle Pip
Chris J Dixon
2017-07-03 09:05:37 UTC
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Post by LFS
When we had our boiler replaced, we had lengthy discussions about the
wisdom of removing the tank in the airing cupboard. I pointed out that
without it we would not have the backup of the immersion heater but the
boiler installer thought this was daft as the new boiler would not need
a backup. Needless to say, there have been several occasions since when
we have been very glad to have the immersion heater...
When our system was renewed, I included an immersion heater, and
went to the expense of fitting an electronic timer for it.

The first time it was needed, the timer had failed, though it was
replaced under warranty. It didn't last much longer though. In
the end I fitted a simple mechanical timer, but have so far not
needed to use it.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham
'48/33 M B+ G++ A L(-) I S-- CH0(--)(p) Ar- T+ H0 ?Q
***@cdixon.me.uk
Plant amazing Acers.
Penny
2017-07-03 09:13:25 UTC
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On Mon, 03 Jul 2017 10:05:37 +0100, Chris J Dixon <***@cdixon.me.uk>
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Chris J Dixon
Post by LFS
When we had our boiler replaced, we had lengthy discussions about the
wisdom of removing the tank in the airing cupboard. I pointed out that
without it we would not have the backup of the immersion heater but the
boiler installer thought this was daft as the new boiler would not need
a backup. Needless to say, there have been several occasions since when
we have been very glad to have the immersion heater...
When our system was renewed, I included an immersion heater, and
went to the expense of fitting an electronic timer for it.
The first time it was needed, the timer had failed, though it was
replaced under warranty. It didn't last much longer though. In
the end I fitted a simple mechanical timer, but have so far not
needed to use it.
I believe there's a bit of kit you can get for your solar set up which
sends any unused generated power to an immersion heater. It was one of the
things I was considering.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Chris J Dixon
2017-07-03 10:22:32 UTC
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Post by Penny
I believe there's a bit of kit you can get for your solar set up which
sends any unused generated power to an immersion heater. It was one of the
things I was considering.
There are a few such systems about, but the payback isn't that
clear. You need to buy the kit, possibly pay for installation
(I'm not up to date with which way Part P has wavered recently)
then ensure that the tank is receptive at the right time.

Then there is the useful life of the kit. I have had this unit
for about 3 years now:

https://www.eco-eye.com/product-monitor-solar-smartpv

Ii enables me to keep an eye on my PV system and usage. I like
being able to glance at the display and also look at the real
time graph on my PC.

Although I do download the data onto the PC, I don't often look
at it analytically - my official meter readings give me what I
need for my spreadsheets.

Getting a good signal for the remote display can be tricky, and I
don't have thick walls or a long distance to cope with.

The accuracy is generally acceptable, though it sometimes seems
to imagine PV generation at night, or spells of zero usage.

However, it has recently stopped working, and now shows no signal
even if I hold it right next to the transmitter. I might try
changing channels again, but I think it is probably dead. :-(

Maybe if I am looking to replace this, I might look for something
that will do both the immersion trick and provide monitoring
data, but it does make me pessimistic about payback/ life.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham
'48/33 M B+ G++ A L(-) I S-- CH0(--)(p) Ar- T+ H0 ?Q
***@cdixon.me.uk
Plant amazing Acers.
Penny
2017-07-03 10:59:04 UTC
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On Mon, 03 Jul 2017 11:22:32 +0100, Chris J Dixon <***@cdixon.me.uk>
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Chris J Dixon
Post by Penny
I believe there's a bit of kit you can get for your solar set up which
sends any unused generated power to an immersion heater. It was one of the
things I was considering.
There are a few such systems about, but the payback isn't that
clear. You need to buy the kit, possibly pay for installation
(I'm not up to date with which way Part P has wavered recently)
then ensure that the tank is receptive at the right time.
Then there is the useful life of the kit. I have had this unit
https://www.eco-eye.com/product-monitor-solar-smartpv
The fact they describe it as 'essential' suggests they exaggerate. I run
the dishwasher or the washing machine on sunny days - I can see those :)
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Fenny
2017-07-03 10:15:18 UTC
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Post by LFS
When we had our boiler replaced, we had lengthy discussions about the
wisdom of removing the tank in the airing cupboard. I pointed out that
without it we would not have the backup of the immersion heater but the
boiler installer thought this was daft as the new boiler would not need
a backup. Needless to say, there have been several occasions since when
we have been very glad to have the immersion heater...
I had exactly the same discussion when I had CH put in. The tank
stayed! It was most useful when the boiler packed in. And currently
the CH is off for the duration and the immersion heater is on for 30
minutes of Economy 7 each night. This provides sufficient hot water
for the non-showering needs.
--
Fenny
Penny
2017-07-02 22:18:54 UTC
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On Sun, 2 Jul 2017 23:00:42 +0100, krw <***@whitnet.uk> scrawled in the
dust...
Post by krw
Post by Btms
Sounds like the writers or Fallon imagine that if you own a house you can
get a plumber or central heating engineer at the drop of a hat.
Oh and given that Christine's place was heavily refurbished surely the
hot water tank has an immersion heater which can be turned on when the
boiler packs up.
We had ours replaced last year (I think) and survived on the immersion
heater until they were able to do it.
I don't have an immersion heater. My system was originally set up with a
back boiler. I did get a quote a while back for a new, larger tank and dual
length immersion but didn't feel the change warranted the outlay and
general disruption.
Post by krw
Is the village detached from electricity?
No but we don't know if it has mains gas. Oil or bottle gas deliveries have
never been mentioned that I can recall but that doesn't mean much. I doubt
every household is on mains drainage but we don't hear about septic tank
emptying either.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Btms
2017-07-03 07:01:19 UTC
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Post by krw
Post by Btms
Sounds like the writers or Fallon imagine that if you own a house you can
get a plumber or central heating engineer at the drop of a hat.
Oh and given that Christine's place was heavily refurbished surely the
hot water tank has an immersion heater which can be turned on when the
boiler packs up.
We had ours replaced last year (I think) and survived on the immersion
heater until they were able to do it.
Is the village detached from electricity?
O but oftendetached fromreality.
--
BTMS - Equine Advisor Extraordinaire.
Jenny M Benson
2017-07-03 17:06:38 UTC
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Post by krw
Oh and given that Christine's place was heavily refurbished surely the
hot water tank has an immersion heater which can be turned on when the
boiler packs up.
We had ours replaced last year (I think) and survived on the immersion
heater until they were able to do it.
When my (1) gas boiler was replaced about a year ago the old (huge) hot
water tank with immo was done away with.

(1) As in "the one provided by the HA which owns this flat".
--
Jenny M Benson
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2017-07-03 19:45:16 UTC
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In message <***@mid.individual.net>, Jenny M Benson
<***@hotmail.co.uk> writes:
[]
Post by Jenny M Benson
When my (1) gas boiler was replaced about a year ago the old (huge) hot
water tank with immo was done away with.
[]
I was wondering, why does a HW tank need an immobiliser? Then the penny
dropped. (My new employer repairs car electronics - e. g. dashboards and
engine-control units - and immo there means that.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Science fiction is escape into reality - Arthur C Clarke
Jenny M Benson
2017-07-04 09:29:01 UTC
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Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by Jenny M Benson
When my (1) gas boiler was replaced about a year ago the old (huge)
hot water tank with immo was done away with.
[]
I was wondering, why does a HW tank need an immobiliser? Then the penny
dropped. (My new employer repairs car electronics - e. g. dashboards and
engine-control units - and immo there means that.)
Don't know how widely-used it is, but in my family (my parents &
siblings) it was always referred to as "the immo."
--
Jenny M Benson
Btms
2017-07-04 09:47:43 UTC
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[]
Whilst on the subject of house maintenance, umra advised a fridge was an
unlikely cause of the Grenfell fire. However,this is now reported as
official fact. I am wondering why it is such an uncommon event. We are
never advised to have a fridge checked are we? I would guess rental
properties run a greater risk if not owned by the tenants?
--
BTMS - Equine Advisor Extraordinaire.
Jim Easterbrook
2017-07-04 09:57:10 UTC
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Post by Btms
[]
Whilst on the subject of house maintenance, umra advised a fridge was an
unlikely cause of the Grenfell fire. However,this is now reported as
official fact. I am wondering why it is such an uncommon event. We are
never advised to have a fridge checked are we? I would guess rental
properties run a greater risk if not owned by the tenants?
The London Fire Brigade is campaigning for "white goods" to have a recall
system (like cars do) to deal with manufacturing faults. They say one fire a
day in London is started by a domestic appliance, though not specifically a
fridge or freezer.

The residents of Grenfell tower had previously complained about power
surges. I suspect they'd only know there'd been a surge because of damaged
electrical goods.
--
Jim <http://www.jim-easterbrook.me.uk/>
1959/1985? M B+ G+ A L- I- S- P-- CH0(p) Ar++ T+ H0 Q--- Sh0
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2017-07-04 18:18:09 UTC
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In message <***@mid.individual.net>, Jim Easterbrook
<***@jim-easterbrook.me.uk> writes:
[]
Post by Jim Easterbrook
The London Fire Brigade is campaigning for "white goods" to have a recall
system (like cars do) to deal with manufacturing faults. They say one fire a
I thought they did in practice - unless you mean having to maintain a
database of owners, which (a) sound _very_ tedious (in that, to be
effective, it would have to cover second and subsequent owners, with
consequent extra work for charity shops and the like: especially since
older appliances are more likely to have problems), and (b) I can see a
significant proportion of people objecting to.
Post by Jim Easterbrook
day in London is started by a domestic appliance, though not specifically a
fridge or freezer.
I would imagine tumble dryers, or washer/dryers, would be top of the
list: possibly followed by other devices that are _intended_ to heat,
but _most_ of those (hairdryers, fan heaters etc.) aren't left
unattended as much as dryers are.
[]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

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Mike
2017-07-04 10:58:03 UTC
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Post by Btms
[]
Whilst on the subject of house maintenance, umra advised a fridge was an
unlikely cause of the Grenfell fire. However,this is now reported as
official fact. I am wondering why it is such an uncommon event. We are
never advised to have a fridge checked are we? I would guess rental
properties run a greater risk if not owned by the tenants?
Many appliances are protected from some causes of combustion by the use of
a fuse rated to allow normal use but only a small margin above this amount.
'Fridges and freezers have a much greater margin allowed as they are
subject to surges of a much higher magnitude so, allowing say 10% above
running demand is impractical; the fuse would either expire very soon after
starting use or weaken to the point of 'fusing' soon after this. Perhaps we
need a 'smart' anti-surge fuse in the line that could differentiate between
start up surge and abnormal demand lasting say several hundred milliseconds
or whatever.

Having said all that, we once had a Phillips top-loader washing machine
that managed to heat up to an extent that the motor windings insulation
started smoking and the appliance scorched the floor tiles beneath it;
fortunately, I walked into the kitchen and could just see enough through
the smoke to isolate the appliance from the power in time to prevent a
serious fire.
The house stank for days after that!
--
Toodle Pip
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2017-07-04 18:37:00 UTC
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In message <%wK6B.99198$***@fx36.am4>, Mike
<***@ntlworld.com> writes:
[]
Post by Mike
Many appliances are protected from some causes of combustion by the use of
a fuse rated to allow normal use but only a small margin above this amount.
'Fridges and freezers have a much greater margin allowed as they are
subject to surges of a much higher magnitude so, allowing say 10% above
running demand is impractical; the fuse would either expire very soon after
starting use or weaken to the point of 'fusing' soon after this. Perhaps we
need a 'smart' anti-surge fuse in the line that could differentiate between
start up surge and abnormal demand lasting say several hundred milliseconds
or whatever.
I don't think I've ever seen a white good (fridge, freezer, washing
machine, ...) in the UK that had a fuse actually in the device itself,
though I'm sure _some_ do. Having said that, fuses do come in a variety
of types, from fast-blow to antisurge; antisurge ones will actually
tolerate a high current for a short time (how large and how short being
[a] partly a property of the fuse type, and [b] usually inversely
proportional).

However, the majority of large mains appliances, AFAIK, are just
protected by the fuse in the plug. (Which is really there to protect the
_cable_.) Fuses to BS1362 are available in at least 2, 3, 5, 10, and 13
amp. rating (which is the current they will _carry_ indefinitely, not
blow at) that I know of; however, (a) they're usually only available in
3 (red) and 13 (brown), with occasionally 5 (black), and (b) an awful
lot of people just put a 13A in all of them. There are very few
appliances - kettles, heaters, washing machines, dryers, and home
welders being about the only ones - that need more than 3A (that's
around 660 to 750 watts!); I doubt many even 'fridge/freezers need more
than 5A (over a kilowatt; if you're using that much, the room will get
hot!). In most cases, the cable itself won't happily carry 13A (in some
cases even 5A), and in more cases the contacts (e. g. in the plug)
won't, without getting decidedly warm.
Post by Mike
Having said all that, we once had a Phillips top-loader washing machine
that managed to heat up to an extent that the motor windings insulation
started smoking and the appliance scorched the floor tiles beneath it;
I'm _guessing_ that that was a matter of the motor itself being
overloaded - bearing stiff, or some piece of clothing got somewhere it
shouldn't. (_Could_ have been the heater elements stuck on or operating
without any water around them, but if the motor windings were hot, it
would most likely be mechanical load.) Not that it matters.
Post by Mike
fortunately, I walked into the kitchen and could just see enough through
the smoke to isolate the appliance from the power in time to prevent a
serious fire.
The house stank for days after that!
Yes - I _don't_ like the smell of shellac in the morning ... (-:. One
thing to be said for the commonest insulation used on wire these days
(not motor windings, that's usually some sort of lacquer) - I think it's
PVC - is that it smokes profusely when hot, usually giving smell and
smoke as a warning.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

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Vicky
2017-07-04 11:00:47 UTC
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Post by Btms
[]
Whilst on the subject of house maintenance, umra advised a fridge was an
unlikely cause of the Grenfell fire. However,this is now reported as
official fact. I am wondering why it is such an uncommon event. We are
never advised to have a fridge checked are we? I would guess rental
properties run a greater risk if not owned by the tenants?
We moved into one of a row of news house in 2010 and the houses were
equipped with the same fridge freezers. Around 2 years ago neighbour
came home to find theirs on fire and called B. Flames around the
housing and inside it, and B put the fire out, turned the electricity
off and called the fire brigade. Ours hasn't caught fire yet but is
rubbish. It is not frost free and needs defrosting, the fridge
temperature is flakey and unless in the door cucumbers etc freeze and
are damaged.

B keeps meaning to get a fire extinguisher. I used to have one in the
house and a fire blanket when married to Capt Ex as tanker personnel
tend to be very aware of fire risks.
--
Vicky
Btms
2017-07-04 11:19:49 UTC
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Post by Vicky
Post by Btms
[]
Whilst on the subject of house maintenance, umra advised a fridge was an
unlikely cause of the Grenfell fire. However,this is now reported as
official fact. I am wondering why it is such an uncommon event. We are
never advised to have a fridge checked are we? I would guess rental
properties run a greater risk if not owned by the tenants?
We moved into one of a row of news house in 2010 and the houses were
equipped with the same fridge freezers. Around 2 years ago neighbour
came home to find theirs on fire and called B. Flames around the
housing and inside it, and B put the fire out, turned the electricity
off and called the fire brigade. Ours hasn't caught fire yet but is
rubbish. It is not frost free and needs defrosting, the fridge
temperature is flakey and unless in the door cucumbers etc freeze and
are damaged.
B keeps meaning to get a fire extinguisher. I used to have one in the
house and a fire blanket when married to Capt Ex as tanker personnel
tend to be very aware of fire risks.
Thank you all for the responses.
Bit alarming as one cant turn a fridge freezer off when house is
unoccupied.
I suppose it is uncommon?
--
BTMS - Equine Advisor Extraordinaire.
krw
2017-07-04 12:11:34 UTC
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Post by Btms
I suppose it is uncommon?
I believe there is a real problem with some tumble driers. But if there
is a fire a day in London from household appliances it is a pity the
news organisations do not do some digging rather than keep worrying
about the number involved - which will require some very sensitive work
by the authorities.
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
tiny.cc/KRWpics
Penny
2017-07-04 13:25:39 UTC
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On Tue, 4 Jul 2017 13:11:34 +0100, krw <***@whitnet.uk> scrawled in the
dust...
Post by krw
Post by Btms
I suppose it is uncommon?
I believe there is a real problem with some tumble driers. But if there
is a fire a day in London from household appliances it is a pity the
news organisations do not do some digging rather than keep worrying
about the number involved - which will require some very sensitive work
by the authorities.
Consumer organisations regularly report on and push manufacturers into
recalling such things. Most manufacturers are quick to act - some less so
:(
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2017-07-04 18:41:23 UTC
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In message
<1069614856.520859936.739419.poppy-***@news.eternal-september.
org>, Btms <***@thetames.me.uk> writes:
[]
Post by Btms
Thank you all for the responses.
Bit alarming as one cant turn a fridge freezer off when house is
unoccupied.
Not if it isn't empty, I suppose!
Post by Btms
I suppose it is uncommon?
I think so. Considering they run more or less continuously for years
(decades in some cases), they're amazingly reliable appliances. In
_most_ of the cases I know of where they've failed, it's usually been
just a failure to cool (probably most often just stop altogether),
rather than catch fire. Though I have no actual statistics.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

<This space unintentionally left blank>.
Sam Plusnet
2017-07-16 22:35:58 UTC
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Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by Jenny M Benson
When my (1) gas boiler was replaced about a year ago the old (huge)
hot water tank with immo was done away with.
[]
I was wondering, why does a HW tank need an immobiliser? Then the penny
dropped. (My new employer repairs car electronics - e. g. dashboards and
engine-control units - and immo there means that.)
Would it be fickle of me to hope the person who deals with the immobile
is called Donna?
--
Sam
BrritSki
2017-07-17 09:34:04 UTC
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Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by Jenny M Benson
When my (1) gas boiler was replaced about a year ago the old (huge)
hot water tank with immo was done away with.
[]
I was wondering, why does a HW tank need an immobiliser? Then the
penny dropped. (My new employer repairs car electronics - e. g.
dashboards and engine-control units - and immo there means that.)
Would it be fickle of me to hope the person who deals with the immobile
is called Donna?
# There's no paper in the bogs,
Immobile
#
steveski
2017-07-17 11:01:53 UTC
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Post by BrritSki
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by Jenny M Benson
When my (1) gas boiler was replaced about a year ago the old (huge)
hot water tank with immo was done away with.
[]
I was wondering, why does a HW tank need an immobiliser? Then the
penny dropped. (My new employer repairs car electronics - e. g.
dashboards and engine-control units - and immo there means that.)
Would it be fickle of me to hope the person who deals with the immobile
is called Donna?
# There's no paper in the bogs,
Immobile
#
La Donna Immobile?
--
Steveski
steveski
2017-07-17 11:03:52 UTC
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Post by steveski
Post by BrritSki
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by Jenny M Benson
When my (1) gas boiler was replaced about a year ago the old (huge)
hot water tank with immo was done away with.
[]
I was wondering, why does a HW tank need an immobiliser? Then the
penny dropped. (My new employer repairs car electronics - e. g.
dashboards and engine-control units - and immo there means that.)
Would it be fickle of me to hope the person who deals with the
immobile is called Donna?
# There's no paper in the bogs,
Immobile
#
La Donna Immobile?
I'm sorry - I didn't see the previous post - D'oh!
--
Steveski
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