Discussion:
Bother. Dammit. Bah!
(too old to reply)
Vicky
2018-02-19 22:13:33 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
s
p
o
i
l
e
r
19
feb
2018
I am happy for Neil and if he accepts he will do the best he can, but
he might not be so keen to help keep the pigs in an industrial unit.
But I really do not want Susan to be boss over Clarrie.Or boss of
anything. She is bad enough anyway.

Did it seem as if Tom and Helen gave her the raise and title to keep
her happy but were not keen to discuss the change with her? Tom ran
off apparently and Helen will say the kefir is not her job. Maybe
there won't be a real management job. Please!
--
Vicky
Btms
2018-02-20 09:21:36 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Vicky
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
s
p
o
i
l
e
r
19
feb
2018
I am happy for Neil and if he accepts he will do the best he can, but
he might not be so keen to help keep the pigs in an industrial unit.
But I really do not want Susan to be boss over Clarrie.Or boss of
anything. She is bad enough anyway.
Did it seem as if Tom and Helen gave her the raise and title to keep
her happy but were not keen to discuss the change with her? Tom ran
off apparently and Helen will say the kefir is not her job. Maybe
there won't be a real management job. Please!
Haven’t heard this yet but my guess is the story planners will look for a
scanario with dramatic tension. Otherwise, there isn’t much to say.
--
BTMS - Equine Advisor Extraordinaire.
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-02-20 10:21:20 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In message
Post by Btms
Post by Vicky
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
s
p
o
i
l
e
r
19
feb
2018
I am happy for Neil and if he accepts he will do the best he can, but
Yes, that was my feeling too.
Post by Btms
Post by Vicky
he might not be so keen to help keep the pigs in an industrial unit.
Oh, I think Neil is sensible enough: he knows that such units are going
to exist, and he's not going to stop them - so if he can _influence_ how
one such is run, he might like that idea.

Plus, I think it'd suit him well: he _is_ getting on, so something that
allowed him to have to do less of the coal-face work, but still be
deeply involved, would IMO be good. I think the job would have appealed
to him even at a much lesser salary - say 30, or even a bit less.
Post by Btms
Post by Vicky
But I really do not want Susan to be boss over Clarrie.Or boss of
anything. She is bad enough anyway.
That, I fear, is indeed a danger. I hadn't thought of that aspect. Oh,
hang on, I thought you were thinking of it as a side effect of the Neil
job: but you're talking about what TomandHelen did (rather suddenly I
thought).
Post by Btms
Post by Vicky
Did it seem as if Tom and Helen gave her the raise and title to keep
her happy but were not keen to discuss the change with her? Tom ran
Yes - but does _anyone_ want to actually discuss _anything_ with Susan?
She does tend to go on at length given even a quarter of a chance. (And
often in a whiny voice, too.)
Post by Btms
Post by Vicky
off apparently and Helen will say the kefir is not her job. Maybe
there won't be a real management job. Please!
Well, if it just means she's managing herself, fine; not if she's
"managing" Clarrie. Plus, if she is given not only control but
_responsibility_ for the Kefir "project" (as management-speak would call
it), fine: it can then stand or fall. (Though she'd have to be told in
no uncertain terms that it _can't_ impact other parts of the business -
no badgering customers, for example.)
Post by Btms
Haven’t heard this yet but my guess is the story planners will look for a
scanario with dramatic tension. Otherwise, there isn’t much to say.
I fear you're right )-:. I guess now you're talking about the Susan
"promotion", but I fear Neil's good fortune (assuming he accepts it)
might also suffer in that way. One way in which it could, is the
people-management aspects: such a salary level, I fear, means Justin
(and his board, or is it just Justin?) would be expecting Neil to manage
people as well as the technicalities of the unit, and on the whole, I
don't think Neil is nasty enough to do that. (Managers don't _have_ to
be nasty - I remember one boss who wasn't, and people worked well for
him because otherwise they felt they were letting _him_ down, and didn't
want to do that - but that is very much the exception; usually, managing
is expected to involve being nasty from time to time.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

when people say they're perfectly happy without children, we don't have to
presume they're lying! - Paul Dolan, RT 2015/1/3-9
Vicky
2018-02-20 10:43:49 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 10:21:20 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
In message
Post by Vicky
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
s
p
o
i
l
e
r
19
feb
2018
I am happy for Neil and if he accepts he will do the best he can, but
Yes, that was my feeling too.
Post by Vicky
he might not be so keen to help keep the pigs in an industrial unit.
Oh, I think Neil is sensible enough: he knows that such units are going
to exist, and he's not going to stop them - so if he can _influence_ how
one such is run, he might like that idea.
Plus, I think it'd suit him well: he _is_ getting on, so something that
allowed him to have to do less of the coal-face work, but still be
deeply involved, would IMO be good. I think the job would have appealed
to him even at a much lesser salary - say 30, or even a bit less.
Post by Vicky
But I really do not want Susan to be boss over Clarrie.Or boss of
anything. She is bad enough anyway.
That, I fear, is indeed a danger. I hadn't thought of that aspect. Oh,
hang on, I thought you were thinking of it as a side effect of the Neil
job: but you're talking about what TomandHelen did (rather suddenly I
thought).
Post by Vicky
Did it seem as if Tom and Helen gave her the raise and title to keep
her happy but were not keen to discuss the change with her? Tom ran
Yes - but does _anyone_ want to actually discuss _anything_ with Susan?
She does tend to go on at length given even a quarter of a chance. (And
often in a whiny voice, too.)
Post by Vicky
off apparently and Helen will say the kefir is not her job. Maybe
there won't be a real management job. Please!
Well, if it just means she's managing herself, fine; not if she's
"managing" Clarrie. Plus, if she is given not only control but
_responsibility_ for the Kefir "project" (as management-speak would call
it), fine: it can then stand or fall. (Though she'd have to be told in
no uncertain terms that it _can't_ impact other parts of the business -
no badgering customers, for example.)
Haven’t heard this yet but my guess is the story planners will look for a
scanario with dramatic tension. Otherwise, there isn’t much to say.
I fear you're right )-:. I guess now you're talking about the Susan
"promotion", but I fear Neil's good fortune (assuming he accepts it)
might also suffer in that way. One way in which it could, is the
people-management aspects: such a salary level, I fear, means Justin
(and his board, or is it just Justin?) would be expecting Neil to manage
people as well as the technicalities of the unit, and on the whole, I
don't think Neil is nasty enough to do that. (Managers don't _have_ to
be nasty - I remember one boss who wasn't, and people worked well for
him because otherwise they felt they were letting _him_ down, and didn't
want to do that - but that is very much the exception; usually, managing
is expected to involve being nasty from time to time.)
As Justin pointed out to him, he has been chair of the Parish Council
for some time and handled people well. He's managed to stay married to
Susan for years too. That counts.
--
Vicky
the Omrud
2018-02-20 14:15:11 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Vicky
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 10:21:20 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
In message
Post by Btms
Post by Vicky
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
s
p
o
i
l
e
r
19
feb
2018
I am happy for Neil and if he accepts he will do the best he can, but
Yes, that was my feeling too.
Post by Btms
Post by Vicky
he might not be so keen to help keep the pigs in an industrial unit.
Oh, I think Neil is sensible enough: he knows that such units are going
to exist, and he's not going to stop them - so if he can _influence_ how
one such is run, he might like that idea.
Plus, I think it'd suit him well: he _is_ getting on, so something that
allowed him to have to do less of the coal-face work, but still be
deeply involved, would IMO be good. I think the job would have appealed
to him even at a much lesser salary - say 30, or even a bit less.
Post by Btms
Post by Vicky
But I really do not want Susan to be boss over Clarrie.Or boss of
anything. She is bad enough anyway.
That, I fear, is indeed a danger. I hadn't thought of that aspect. Oh,
hang on, I thought you were thinking of it as a side effect of the Neil
job: but you're talking about what TomandHelen did (rather suddenly I
thought).
Post by Btms
Post by Vicky
Did it seem as if Tom and Helen gave her the raise and title to keep
her happy but were not keen to discuss the change with her? Tom ran
Yes - but does _anyone_ want to actually discuss _anything_ with Susan?
She does tend to go on at length given even a quarter of a chance. (And
often in a whiny voice, too.)
Post by Btms
Post by Vicky
off apparently and Helen will say the kefir is not her job. Maybe
there won't be a real management job. Please!
Well, if it just means she's managing herself, fine; not if she's
"managing" Clarrie. Plus, if she is given not only control but
_responsibility_ for the Kefir "project" (as management-speak would call
it), fine: it can then stand or fall. (Though she'd have to be told in
no uncertain terms that it _can't_ impact other parts of the business -
no badgering customers, for example.)
Post by Btms
Haven’t heard this yet but my guess is the story planners will look for a
scanario with dramatic tension. Otherwise, there isn’t much to say.
I fear you're right )-:. I guess now you're talking about the Susan
"promotion", but I fear Neil's good fortune (assuming he accepts it)
might also suffer in that way. One way in which it could, is the
people-management aspects: such a salary level, I fear, means Justin
(and his board, or is it just Justin?) would be expecting Neil to manage
people as well as the technicalities of the unit, and on the whole, I
don't think Neil is nasty enough to do that. (Managers don't _have_ to
be nasty - I remember one boss who wasn't, and people worked well for
him because otherwise they felt they were letting _him_ down, and didn't
want to do that - but that is very much the exception; usually, managing
is expected to involve being nasty from time to time.)
As Justin pointed out to him, he has been chair of the Parish Council
for some time and handled people well. He's managed to stay married to
Susan for years too. That counts.
Undiagnosed deafness?
--
David
BrritSki
2018-02-20 16:02:53 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by the Omrud
Post by Vicky
As Justin pointed out to him, he has been chair of the Parish Council
for some time and handled people well. He's managed to stay married to
Susan for years too. That counts.
Undiagnosed deafness?
:)
p***@never.here
2018-02-21 11:36:57 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Vicky
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 10:21:20 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
In message
v
v
v
v
Heavily snipped.
Post by Vicky
As Justin pointed out to him, he has been chair of the Parish Council
for some time and handled people well. He's managed to stay married to
Susan for years too. That counts.
against him <g>
--
Pete
Penny
2018-02-20 14:33:18 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 10:21:20 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Justin
(and his board, or is it just Justin?) would be expecting Neil to manage
people as well as the technicalities of the unit, and on the whole, I
don't think Neil is nasty enough to do that. (Managers don't _have_ to
be nasty - I remember one boss who wasn't, and people worked well for
him because otherwise they felt they were letting _him_ down, and didn't
want to do that - but that is very much the exception; usually, managing
is expected to involve being nasty from time to time.)
One of the husgod's greatest skills was handling people. He had perfected
the art of 'shouting quietly' (as the staff called it) and never did it in
front of other staff members. Sadly, my bother (who became a director of
the company) never had such skills and was a lousy people manager :(

I think Neil would do fine, if he can cope the high intensity set-up and
doesn't miss the hands-on aspects of pig management.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Jim Easterbrook
2018-02-20 14:37:17 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Penny
I think Neil would do fine, if he can cope the high intensity set-up and
doesn't miss the hands-on aspects of pig management.
I think he'll be spending too much time with the pigs and not enough in
the office. Staff will be going home early and Neil will be finishing off
their work for them.
--
Jim <http://www.jim-easterbrook.me.uk/>
1959/1985? M B+ G+ A L- I- S- P-- CH0(p) Ar++ T+ H0 Q--- Sh0
Btms
2018-02-20 15:03:12 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Jim Easterbrook
Post by Penny
I think Neil would do fine, if he can cope the high intensity set-up and
doesn't miss the hands-on aspects of pig management.
I think he'll be spending too much time with the pigs and not enough in
the office. Staff will be going home early and Neil will be finishing off
their work for them.
In the real world I am sure you are right.
--
BTMS - Equine Advisor Extraordinaire.
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-02-20 16:33:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In message
Post by Btms
Post by Jim Easterbrook
Post by Penny
I think Neil would do fine, if he can cope the high intensity set-up and
doesn't miss the hands-on aspects of pig management.
I think he'll be spending too much time with the pigs and not enough in
the office. Staff will be going home early and Neil will be finishing off
their work for them.
In the real world I am sure you are right.
I'm not so sure that in the real world the offer would have been made,
to someone with no (professional) management experience; someone with
his clearly excellent knowledge of the subject might be offered a
skilled hand post, then possibly promoted from within after a while.

However, in the world of Ambridge, it could well happen - and if he
wants to continue to get his hands dirty, I don't really see anyone
objecting - certainly not most of the staff (not because he'd be doing
their work so they could go home early, but more that staff respect
_more_ a boss who still does "real" work; we certainly did). Except
Susan, of course, which would just be pleasing to all of us, I think.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"I'm very peachable, if people know how to peach" - Sir David Attenborough (on
being asked if he was tired of being described as impeachable), on Desert
Island Discs, 2012-1-29.
Btms
2018-02-20 18:13:15 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
In message
Post by Btms
Post by Jim Easterbrook
Post by Penny
I think Neil would do fine, if he can cope the high intensity set-up and
doesn't miss the hands-on aspects of pig management.
I think he'll be spending too much time with the pigs and not enough in
the office. Staff will be going home early and Neil will be finishing off
their work for them.
In the real world I am sure you are right.
I'm not so sure that in the real world the offer would have been made,
to someone with no (professional) management experience; someone with
his clearly excellent knowledge of the subject might be offered a
skilled hand post, then possibly promoted from within after a while.
This is another point of course.
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
However, in the world of Ambridge, it could well happen - and if he
wants to continue to get his hands dirty, I don't really see anyone
objecting - certainly not most of the staff (not because he'd be doing
their work so they could go home early, but more that staff respect
_more_ a boss who still does "real" work; we certainly did). Except
Susan, of course, which would just be pleasing to all of us, I think.
That too.

But all sorts happens in Ambridge that doesn’t bear too much looking into.
--
BTMS - Equine Advisor Extraordinaire.
Chris McMillan
2018-02-20 19:03:43 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Vicky
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 10:21:20 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Justin
(and his board, or is it just Justin?) would be expecting Neil to manage
people as well as the technicalities of the unit, and on the whole, I
don't think Neil is nasty enough to do that. (Managers don't _have_ to
be nasty - I remember one boss who wasn't, and people worked well for
him because otherwise they felt they were letting _him_ down, and didn't
want to do that - but that is very much the exception; usually, managing
is expected to involve being nasty from time to time.)
One of the husgod's greatest skills was handling people. He had perfected
the art of 'shouting quietly' (as the staff called it) and never did it in
front of other staff members. Sadly, my bother (who became a director of
the company) never had such skills and was a lousy people manager :(
I think Neil would do fine, if he can cope the high intensity set-up and
doesn't miss the hands-on aspects of pig management.
But what about Neil’s pig empire? Surely he couldn’t run both? Didn’t
Phil once have problems because of he wanting Neil to look after
Brookfield’s pig empire?

Sincerely Chris
Chris McMillan
2018-02-21 09:08:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Chris McMillan
Post by Vicky
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 10:21:20 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Justin
(and his board, or is it just Justin?) would be expecting Neil to manage
people as well as the technicalities of the unit, and on the whole, I
don't think Neil is nasty enough to do that. (Managers don't _have_ to
be nasty - I remember one boss who wasn't, and people worked well for
him because otherwise they felt they were letting _him_ down, and didn't
want to do that - but that is very much the exception; usually, managing
is expected to involve being nasty from time to time.)
One of the husgod's greatest skills was handling people. He had perfected
the art of 'shouting quietly' (as the staff called it) and never did it in
front of other staff members. Sadly, my bother (who became a director of
the company) never had such skills and was a lousy people manager :(
I think Neil would do fine, if he can cope the high intensity set-up and
doesn't miss the hands-on aspects of pig management.
But what about Neil’s pig empire? Surely he couldn’t run both? Didn’t
Phil once have problems because of he wanting Neil to look after
Brookfield’s pig empire?
Sincerely Chris
Kneel answered this himself ........

Sincerely Chris
carolet
2018-02-21 09:11:42 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Chris McMillan
Post by Vicky
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 10:21:20 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Justin
(and his board, or is it just Justin?) would be expecting Neil to manage
people as well as the technicalities of the unit, and on the whole, I
don't think Neil is nasty enough to do that. (Managers don't _have_ to
be nasty - I remember one boss who wasn't, and people worked well for
him because otherwise they felt they were letting _him_ down, and didn't
want to do that - but that is very much the exception; usually, managing
is expected to involve being nasty from time to time.)
One of the husgod's greatest skills was handling people. He had perfected
the art of 'shouting quietly' (as the staff called it) and never did it in
front of other staff members. Sadly, my bother (who became a director of
the company) never had such skills and was a lousy people manager :(
I think Neil would do fine, if he can cope the high intensity set-up and
doesn't miss the hands-on aspects of pig management.
But what about Neil’s pig empire? Surely he couldn’t run both? Didn’t
Phil once have problems because of he wanting Neil to look after
Brookfield’s pig empire?
Sincerely Chris
Well, Susan clearly thinks not, she has already made other suggestions
for the land once the pig arks are gone.
--
CaroleT
Mike
2018-02-21 09:51:07 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by carolet
Post by Chris McMillan
Post by Vicky
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 10:21:20 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Justin
(and his board, or is it just Justin?) would be expecting Neil to manage
people as well as the technicalities of the unit, and on the whole, I
don't think Neil is nasty enough to do that. (Managers don't _have_ to
be nasty - I remember one boss who wasn't, and people worked well for
him because otherwise they felt they were letting _him_ down, and didn't
want to do that - but that is very much the exception; usually, managing
is expected to involve being nasty from time to time.)
One of the husgod's greatest skills was handling people. He had perfected
the art of 'shouting quietly' (as the staff called it) and never did it in
front of other staff members. Sadly, my bother (who became a director of
the company) never had such skills and was a lousy people manager :(
I think Neil would do fine, if he can cope the high intensity set-up and
doesn't miss the hands-on aspects of pig management.
But what about Neil’s pig empire? Surely he couldn’t run both? Didn’t
Phil once have problems because of he wanting Neil to look after
Brookfield’s pig empire?
Sincerely Chris
Well, Susan clearly thinks not, she has already made other suggestions
for the land once the pig arks are gone.
I was waiting for her to suggest a few goats.....
--
Toodle Pip
DavidK
2018-02-21 10:48:15 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by carolet
Post by Vicky
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 10:21:20 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Justin
(and his board, or is it just Justin?) would be expecting Neil to manage
people as well as the technicalities of the unit, and on the whole, I
don't think Neil is nasty enough to do that. (Managers don't _have_ to
be nasty - I remember one boss who wasn't, and people worked well for
him because otherwise they felt they were letting _him_ down, and didn't
want to do that - but that is very much the exception; usually, managing
is expected to involve being nasty from time to time.)
One of the husgod's greatest skills was handling people. He had perfected
the art of 'shouting quietly' (as the staff called it) and never did it in
front of other staff members. Sadly, my bother (who became a director of
the company) never had such skills and was a lousy people manager :(
I think Neil would do fine, if he can cope the high intensity set-up and
doesn't miss the hands-on aspects of pig management.
But what about Neil’s pig empire?  Surely he couldn’t run both?  Didn’t
Phil once have problems because of he wanting Neil to look after
Brookfield’s pig empire?
Sincerely Chris
Well, Susan clearly thinks not, she has already made other suggestions
for the land once the pig arks are gone.
IIRC Phil worried about cross-contamination of diseases. Strangely, Tom
doesn't seem to worry about this.

When Justin made his offer I was reminded of a scene in which Phil gave
Horrobin senior a lift in his car and told him that Neil could become a
small-holder sometime and wondered if Jazzer would manage or buy Neil's
home-grown industry.
Loading...