Discussion:
Explanation
(too old to reply)
krw
2017-02-01 16:44:45 UTC
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I cannot remember if I told umra at my recent anxiety when denied a new
credit card on the basis (allegedly) of my credit record and telling me
to contact two credit reference agencies for an explanation of me being
a poor risk (and unlike Snappy I was not looking for £0.25m).

Having obtained the two files I could find nothing to substantiate being
a poor risk.

So I decided to raise my concerns with the credit card provider.

Today I am being sent a credit card. Apparently someone - and they do
not know who - entered my monthly income as my annual income and the
amount was not seen as being adequate to meet my liabilities.

This is notwithstanding that the two reports clearly indicate that the
amount going through two current credit cards each month is more than
the supposed net monthly amount entered.

So the computer said no. Now please give me human beings because
someone should have spotted the discrepancy because it was so large.
And does no-one do a check before sending out letters accusing a
customer of having a poor credit record - which is nasty allegation to make.

And of course they have had to compensate me and cover my costs - which
is my reason for not naming them. And in the scheme of things yes it is
not important - but why cause such upset in the first place?
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
tiny.cc/KRWpics
David Medcalf
2017-02-01 17:53:13 UTC
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A couple of years ago I was refused a mobile phone contract with Orange ' because of my credit rating'. The contract was for a mighty £5 a month. Like you I went to the agencies who allegedly make these judgments - all fine.
So I queried it with Orange - they declined to go into any specifics, but said..... "Oh, you live in Wales - probably our person mistyped your complicated address so the computer couldn't find you and stopped the process". Very comforting.
Sam Plusnet
2017-02-01 21:38:24 UTC
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Post by David Medcalf
A couple of years ago I was refused a mobile phone contract with Orange ' because of my credit rating'. The contract was for a mighty £5 a month. Like you I went to the agencies who allegedly make these judgments - all fine.
So I queried it with Orange - they declined to go into any specifics, but said..... "Oh, you live in Wales - probably our person mistyped your complicated address so the computer couldn't find you and stopped the process". Very comforting.
Welsh post codes are too difficult?

Who knew?
--
Sam Plusnet
BrritSki
2017-02-02 08:18:02 UTC
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Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by David Medcalf
A couple of years ago I was refused a mobile phone contract with
Orange ' because of my credit rating'. The contract was for a mighty
£5 a month. Like you I went to the agencies who allegedly make these
judgments - all fine.
So I queried it with Orange - they declined to go into any specifics,
but said..... "Oh, you live in Wales - probably our person mistyped
your complicated address so the computer couldn't find you and stopped
the process". Very comforting.
Welsh post codes are too difficult?
It's not that they're difficult, it's just that it's hard to know which
is the postcode and which is the town name. HTH. ;)
David Medcalf
2017-02-02 08:33:44 UTC
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I asked our postman how the post code system worked in this area. He said "Post codes? I've no idea".
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2017-02-02 21:02:29 UTC
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Post by David Medcalf
I asked our postman how the post code system worked in this area. He
said "Post codes? I've no idea".
Well, I don't know about your area, but in most cases they seem to start
with one or two letters for a local town (possibly what used to be
called the "post town"), or in a few cases abbreviations that were
already in existence, such as in London. There then follow a one or two
digit number that subdivides the area; these usually seem to spiral out
from the centre, starting at 1, going up to 9, then 0, then 10 on
upwards. (I don't know how far up they go; I know NE [Newcastle] goes up
into the sixties.) Where pre-existing codes are used, letters are added
instead, such as W1A for London.

Then there's a space (though they're all carefully designed so that
they're not _ambiguous_, though much harder to follow, if you leave the
space out), and another number for a smaller area.

Finally, these small areas are divided into letter pairs. I have always
assumed these were created by local post offices, in most cases using a
random letter-pair generator supplied by the post office, but I've
always fondly imagined that in some cases they might have been the
initials of the postie whose round they were (-: Or something similar.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Quantum particles: the dreams that stuff is made of - David Moser
Joe Kerr
2017-02-02 22:41:30 UTC
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Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by David Medcalf
I asked our postman how the post code system worked in this area. He
said "Post codes? I've no idea".
Well, I don't know about your area, but in most cases they seem to start
with one or two letters for a local town (possibly what used to be
called the "post town"), or in a few cases abbreviations that were
already in existence, such as in London. There then follow a one or two
digit number that subdivides the area; these usually seem to spiral out
from the centre, starting at 1, going up to 9, then 0, then 10 on
upwards. (I don't know how far up they go; I know NE [Newcastle] goes up
into the sixties.)
Birmingham makes it into the 90s, possibly all the way to 99, but there
is no 50 range so bad handwriting can't lead to confusion between B5x
and BSx which would be central Bristol.

? Where pre-existing codes are used, letters are added
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
instead, such as W1A for London.
That's the outbound code.
Followed by the inbound code.
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Then there's a space (though they're all carefully designed so that
they're not _ambiguous_, though much harder to follow, if you leave the
space out), and another number for a smaller area.
Finally, these small areas are divided into letter pairs. I have always
assumed these were created by local post offices, in most cases using a
random letter-pair generator supplied by the post office, but I've
always fondly imagined that in some cases they might have been the
initials of the postie whose round they were (-: Or something similar.
Some large companies have their own postcode(s) and can get to pick the
last two letters which may be the company initials, for example.
Otherwise they appear to be allocated in some logical sequence, normally
starting with AA, which will then be adjacent to AB, and probably have
AC round the corner.

The Girobank has its own postcode (GIR 0AA) that does not conform to the
rules.
--
Ric
Penny
2017-02-02 23:26:34 UTC
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On Thu, 2 Feb 2017 22:41:30 +0000, Joe Kerr <***@cheerful.com>
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Joe Kerr
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by David Medcalf
I asked our postman how the post code system worked in this area. He
said "Post codes? I've no idea".
Well, I don't know about your area, but in most cases they seem to start
--8<-- lots of stuff about how post codes work
Post by Joe Kerr
The Girobank has its own postcode (GIR 0AA) that does not conform to the
rules.
Getting back to rural Welsh postcodes - and in particular their use in sat
navs. A lot of the time they are quite useful but your average sat nav will
take you to the centre of the code area which in the case of my own (on the
edge of a town) is the driveway of a property 3 houses away.

In more rural areas, for some reason, rather than allocating a different
code to each isolated property they attach them to a sometimes far-flung
group of isolated properties, which is little help without further
directions.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Peter Percival
2017-02-02 23:42:02 UTC
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Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Joe Kerr
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by David Medcalf
I asked our postman how the post code system worked in this area. He
said "Post codes? I've no idea".
Well, I don't know about your area, but in most cases they seem to start
--8<-- lots of stuff about how post codes work
Post by Joe Kerr
The Girobank has its own postcode (GIR 0AA) that does not conform to the
rules.
Getting back to rural Welsh postcodes - and in particular their use in sat
navs. A lot of the time they are quite useful but your average sat nav will
take you to the centre of the code area which in the case of my own (on the
edge of a town) is the driveway of a property 3 houses away.
In more rural areas, for some reason, rather than allocating a different
code to each isolated property they attach them to a sometimes far-flung
group of isolated properties, which is little help without further
directions.
But it may be useful to the postie who predates the sat nav by a good
many years.
--
Do, as a concession to my poor wits, Lord Darlington, just explain
to me what you really mean.
I think I had better not, Duchess. Nowadays to be intelligible is
to be found out. -- Oscar Wilde, Lady Windermere's Fan
Fenny
2017-02-02 23:42:35 UTC
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Post by Penny
In more rural areas, for some reason, rather than allocating a different
code to each isolated property they attach them to a sometimes far-flung
group of isolated properties, which is little help without further
directions.
More frustrating are the post codes that satnavs don't recognise at
all and send you to some completely random place miles away. I had
several of those for companies in Shipston on Stour. It helps if the
company in question actually provide this information, instead of just
assuming you're going to know that an isolated barn at the end of a
very long single track road isn't actually their premises.

My previous satnav worked on road addresses. You entered the town,
then the street name, then the number. Unfortunately, the screen
wasn't wide enough to display more than about 12 characters, so
somewhere that had <long name> Road, <long name> Street and <long
name> Crescent was difficult to navigate successfully.
--
Fenny
Penny
2017-02-03 10:23:04 UTC
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On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 23:42:35 +0000, Fenny <***@onetel.com>
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Fenny
More frustrating are the post codes that satnavs don't recognise at
all and send you to some completely random place miles away.
[...]
Post by Fenny
My previous satnav worked on road addresses. You entered the town,
then the street name, then the number.
My old one will take either post code or street address. I like the way you
can just put in a town name or road junction and it will happily take you
in that general direction without insisting on a precise address.

OTOH, while its maps are moderately up to date its database of things like
junctions is hopelessly out of date and it refuses to believe you can drive
down the M40 and join the M25. So I bought a new one - which doesn't like
vague addresses - I keep both in the car.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Jane Vernon
2017-02-04 08:27:03 UTC
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Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Fenny
More frustrating are the post codes that satnavs don't recognise at
all and send you to some completely random place miles away.
[...]
Post by Fenny
My previous satnav worked on road addresses. You entered the town,
then the street name, then the number.
My old one will take either post code or street address. I like the way you
can just put in a town name or road junction and it will happily take you
in that general direction without insisting on a precise address.
OTOH, while its maps are moderately up to date its database of things like
junctions is hopelessly out of date and it refuses to believe you can drive
down the M40 and join the M25. So I bought a new one - which doesn't like
vague addresses - I keep both in the car.
Do you literally keep them in the car? I keep mine in the house and
only take it when I'm going somewhere I think I might need it. I have
sometimes wished I'd had it when an unplanned detour happened.

However, I read somewhere that if you keep it in the glove box or
similar, it can get much too hot in the same weather that would be too
hot to leave an animal in the car. As I bought it on special offer with
lifetime map updates included, I don't want to have to replace a dead
satnav.
--
Jane
The Potter in the Purple socks - to reply, please remove PURPLE
BTME

http://www.clothandclay.co.uk/umra/cookbook.htm - Umrats' recipes
Nick Leverton
2017-02-04 09:43:06 UTC
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Post by Jane Vernon
Post by Penny
OTOH, while its maps are moderately up to date its database of things like
junctions is hopelessly out of date and it refuses to believe you can drive
down the M40 and join the M25. So I bought a new one - which doesn't like
vague addresses - I keep both in the car.
Do you literally keep them in the car? I keep mine in the house and
only take it when I'm going somewhere I think I might need it. I have
sometimes wished I'd had it when an unplanned detour happened.
However, I read somewhere that if you keep it in the glove box or
similar, it can get much too hot in the same weather that would be too
hot to leave an animal in the car. As I bought it on special offer with
lifetime map updates included, I don't want to have to replace a dead
satnav.
Domestic grade electronics components usually have an operating
temperature range of 0 to 70 Celcius, which is unlikely to be exceeded in
a car. Storage (e.g. when turned off) can be well outside these limits
without problem.

I suspect the limitation would be on either durability of plastic
casings, or on the battery temperature. I'm no expert but reading
around suggests a preferred temperature range of 5 to 45 Celcius.
The characteristics vary depending on battery type. Lithium cells
such as those used in laptops or mobiles can comfortably exceed that,
but the battery life will be reduced. NiMH types - such as most modern
AA or AAA rechargables - work at a wide range but have very temperature
dependent capacity, whilst NiCD cells, the older type of rechargable,
are not happy over about 45 degrees at all.

LCD screens are also very temperature sensitive in use. But again,
reading around suggests they can be stored at temperatures between about
-10 to 70 or 80 Celcius before they start degrading.

So in practice I think the recommendation would be mostly about battery
life. E&OE, I am a software engineer not a hardware one :-)

Nick
--
"The Internet, a sort of ersatz counterfeit of real life"
-- Janet Street-Porter, BBC2, 19th March 1996
Jim Easterbrook
2017-02-04 10:00:10 UTC
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Post by Nick Leverton
Post by Jane Vernon
Post by Penny
OTOH, while its maps are moderately up to date its database of things
like junctions is hopelessly out of date and it refuses to believe you
can drive down the M40 and join the M25. So I bought a new one - which
doesn't like vague addresses - I keep both in the car.
Do you literally keep them in the car? I keep mine in the house and
only take it when I'm going somewhere I think I might need it. I have
sometimes wished I'd had it when an unplanned detour happened.
However, I read somewhere that if you keep it in the glove box or
similar, it can get much too hot in the same weather that would be too
hot to leave an animal in the car. As I bought it on special offer with
lifetime map updates included, I don't want to have to replace a dead
satnav.
Domestic grade electronics components usually have an operating
temperature range of 0 to 70 Celcius, which is unlikely to be exceeded in
a car. Storage (e.g. when turned off) can be well outside these limits
without problem.
I left mine in the car at the Puy-de-Dôme a few years ago. The heat didn't
kill it but it forced a factory reset, losing all the favourites I'd stored.
(And re-enabling all the silly noises any time you're near where it thinks a
speed camera might be, but I managed to disable them again eventually.)

I've now got a cheap Chinese no-name one instead of my previous Garmin and
it's surprisingly good. Free updates as well, but from a staggeringly slow
web site.
--
Jim <http://www.jim-easterbrook.me.uk/>
1959/1985? M B+ G+ A L- I- S- P-- CH0(p) Ar++ T+ H0 Q--- Sh0
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2017-02-04 09:45:22 UTC
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In message <***@mid.individual.net>, Jane Vernon
<***@gmail.com> writes:
[]
Post by Jane Vernon
Do you literally keep them in the car? I keep mine in the house and
only take it when I'm going somewhere I think I might need it. I have
sometimes wished I'd had it when an unplanned detour happened.
There's always the fear of theft as well (not so much the satnav as the
damage that'd be done). But I, too, keep mine in the car most of the
time - not that I need it for my daily commute, but I use its mp3 player
ability (I have it connected to the car audio); it spends far more of
its time doing that than being a satnav.
Post by Jane Vernon
However, I read somewhere that if you keep it in the glove box or
similar, it can get much too hot in the same weather that would be too
hot to leave an animal in the car. As I bought it on special offer
with lifetime map updates included, I don't want to have to replace a
dead satnav.
I don't keep it in the glove compartment. Sounds like a good deal; how
do they get updated - on your computer and you download them to the SD
card?
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging
their prejudices." - William James
Jane Vernon
2017-02-12 17:21:12 UTC
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Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by Jane Vernon
Do you literally keep them in the car? I keep mine in the house and
only take it when I'm going somewhere I think I might need it. I have
sometimes wished I'd had it when an unplanned detour happened.
There's always the fear of theft as well (not so much the satnav as the
damage that'd be done). But I, too, keep mine in the car most of the
time - not that I need it for my daily commute, but I use its mp3 player
ability (I have it connected to the car audio); it spends far more of
its time doing that than being a satnav.
Post by Jane Vernon
However, I read somewhere that if you keep it in the glove box or
similar, it can get much too hot in the same weather that would be too
hot to leave an animal in the car. As I bought it on special offer
with lifetime map updates included, I don't want to have to replace a
dead satnav.
I don't keep it in the glove compartment. Sounds like a good deal; how
do they get updated - on your computer and you download them to the SD
card?
You plug the satnav into the computer
--
Jane
The Potter in the Purple socks - to reply, please remove PURPLE
BTME

http://www.clothandclay.co.uk/umra/cookbook.htm - Umrats' recipes
Penny
2017-02-12 17:45:05 UTC
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On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 17:21:12 +0000, Jane Vernon
Post by Jane Vernon
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I don't keep it in the glove compartment. Sounds like a good deal; how
do they get updated - on your computer and you download them to the SD
card?
You plug the satnav into the computer
Which reminds me, I must have another go at this. I bought a Garmin with
the same free map updates but the website said I needed to use the app
which was not compatible with my XP netbook and they don't do an Android
version (their customer service was disappointing). I did try it on S-o-L's
laptop but it said it would take more hours than were available at the
time. Haven't tried it since I got Win10 working on this desktop.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
p***@never.here
2017-02-12 19:29:17 UTC
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Post by Penny
On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 17:21:12 +0000, Jane Vernon
Post by Jane Vernon
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I don't keep it in the glove compartment. Sounds like a good deal; how
do they get updated - on your computer and you download them to the SD
card?
You plug the satnav into the computer
Which reminds me, I must have another go at this. I bought a Garmin with
the same free map updates but the website said I needed to use the app
which was not compatible with my XP netbook and they don't do an Android
version (their customer service was disappointing). I did try it on S-o-L's
laptop but it said it would take more hours than were available at the
time. Haven't tried it since I got Win10 working on this desktop.
Garmin express is what you need.

http://software.garmin.com/en-GB/express.html

Works for me using Win 10.
--
Pete
Penny
2017-02-22 21:33:36 UTC
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Post by p***@never.here
Post by Penny
Which reminds me, I must have another go at this. I bought a Garmin with
the same free map updates but the website said I needed to use the app
which was not compatible with my XP netbook and they don't do an Android
version (their customer service was disappointing). I did try it on S-o-L's
laptop but it said it would take more hours than were available at the
time. Haven't tried it since I got Win10 working on this desktop.
Garmin express is what you need.
http://software.garmin.com/en-GB/express.html
Works for me using Win 10.
Thanks, I finally got around to it today as I have a trip planned. It was
some time before the satnav was charged enough to be 'found' but, after at
one point telling me it would take 19 hours to update, it did it all in
less than 2.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
p***@never.here
2017-02-04 10:41:35 UTC
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On Sat, 4 Feb 2017 08:27:03 +0000, Jane Vernon
Post by Jane Vernon
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Fenny
More frustrating are the post codes that satnavs don't recognise at
all and send you to some completely random place miles away.
[...]
Post by Fenny
My previous satnav worked on road addresses. You entered the town,
then the street name, then the number.
My old one will take either post code or street address. I like the way you
can just put in a town name or road junction and it will happily take you
in that general direction without insisting on a precise address.
OTOH, while its maps are moderately up to date its database of things like
junctions is hopelessly out of date and it refuses to believe you can drive
down the M40 and join the M25. So I bought a new one - which doesn't like
vague addresses - I keep both in the car.
Do you literally keep them in the car? I keep mine in the house and
only take it when I'm going somewhere I think I might need it. I have
sometimes wished I'd had it when an unplanned detour happened.
FWIW I leave mine in the car boot when not in use. Tempting fate -
never had a problem with heat etc.
Post by Jane Vernon
However, I read somewhere that if you keep it in the glove box or
similar, it can get much too hot in the same weather that would be too
hot to leave an animal in the car. As I bought it on special offer with
lifetime map updates included, I don't want to have to replace a dead
satnav.
--
Pete
Penny
2017-02-04 10:51:38 UTC
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On Sat, 4 Feb 2017 08:27:03 +0000, Jane Vernon
<***@gmail.com> scrawled in the dust...
I wrote, of sat navs
Post by Penny
So I bought a new one - which doesn't like
Post by Penny
vague addresses - I keep both in the car.
Do you literally keep them in the car?
I do
Post by Penny
I keep mine in the house and
only take it when I'm going somewhere I think I might need it. I have
sometimes wished I'd had it when an unplanned detour happened.
However, I read somewhere that if you keep it in the glove box or
similar, it can get much too hot in the same weather that would be too
hot to leave an animal in the car.
Something to think about but they've survived ok so far. I usually keep the
newer one in the central box between the front seats but the other tends to
live in the box above and behind the steering wheel right under the
windscreen which must get very hot at times.

I doubt built in devices are insulated from heat. Don't modern cars have
some sort of on-board computer? Are these insulated?
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Nick Leverton
2017-02-04 14:42:11 UTC
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Post by Penny
Something to think about but they've survived ok so far. I usually keep the
newer one in the central box between the front seats but the other tends to
live in the box above and behind the steering wheel right under the
windscreen which must get very hot at times.
I doubt built in devices are insulated from heat. Don't modern cars have
some sort of on-board computer? Are these insulated?
Automotive grade electronics are made to a wider temperature tolerance.
When we build kit at work (for industrial use rather than cars, but the
principle is the same), we make sure to order the correctly temperature
rated parts.

Nick
--
"The Internet, a sort of ersatz counterfeit of real life"
-- Janet Street-Porter, BBC2, 19th March 1996
Vicky
2017-02-03 07:57:36 UTC
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Post by Penny
Getting back to rural Welsh postcodes - and in particular their use in sat
navs. A lot of the time they are quite useful but your average sat nav will
take you to the centre of the code area which in the case of my own (on the
edge of a town) is the driveway of a property 3 houses away.
In more rural areas, for some reason, rather than allocating a different
code to each isolated property they attach them to a sometimes far-flung
group of isolated properties, which is little help without further
directions.
In central London things change quite quickly with new developments. I
had to meet #2 daugthre at a restaurant near Kings Cross and neither
the sat nav nor the A-Z, which is older, had heard of the road or the
one leading to it. Luckily I'd googled before setting out and had a
vague idea and had to keep stopping to ask directions.
--
Vicky
Fenny
2017-02-03 19:18:10 UTC
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Post by Vicky
In central London things change quite quickly with new developments. I
had to meet #2 daugthre at a restaurant near Kings Cross and neither
the sat nav nor the A-Z, which is older, had heard of the road or the
one leading to it. Luckily I'd googled before setting out and had a
vague idea and had to keep stopping to ask directions.
This is why I use Google maps on my phone as a satnav these days. The
previous one was built in to the car and no update CDs were available.
Now, it's all as up to date as Google is and it works in whatever
country I happen to be in.
--
Fenny
Sam Plusnet
2017-02-03 23:14:31 UTC
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Post by Fenny
Post by Vicky
In central London things change quite quickly with new developments. I
had to meet #2 daugthre at a restaurant near Kings Cross and neither
the sat nav nor the A-Z, which is older, had heard of the road or the
one leading to it. Luckily I'd googled before setting out and had a
vague idea and had to keep stopping to ask directions.
This is why I use Google maps on my phone as a satnav these days. The
previous one was built in to the car and no update CDs were available.
Now, it's all as up to date as Google is and it works in whatever
country I happen to be in.
I've always thought that a built-in satnav was a pretty silly idea -
especially when updates from the car manufacturer seem to make a new car
sound like a cheap option.
--
Sam Plusnet
Vicky
2017-02-04 11:47:20 UTC
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Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Fenny
Post by Vicky
In central London things change quite quickly with new developments. I
had to meet #2 daugthre at a restaurant near Kings Cross and neither
the sat nav nor the A-Z, which is older, had heard of the road or the
one leading to it. Luckily I'd googled before setting out and had a
vague idea and had to keep stopping to ask directions.
This is why I use Google maps on my phone as a satnav these days. The
previous one was built in to the car and no update CDs were available.
Now, it's all as up to date as Google is and it works in whatever
country I happen to be in.
I've always thought that a built-in satnav was a pretty silly idea -
especially when updates from the car manufacturer seem to make a new car
sound like a cheap option.
Ours is not built it, it's Tomtom. We must update again. I have got a
smart phone and should learn how to use google groups to navigate.
Grandson could teach me :).
Pretty soon his 21mth old sister will be able to. She can now turn the
tablet on and find ceebeebies and other programmes. Also skype her
dad, from the photo.
--
Vicky
Fenny
2017-02-04 13:48:11 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Vicky
Ours is not built it, it's Tomtom. We must update again. I have got a
smart phone and should learn how to use google groups to navigate.
Grandson could teach me :).
a) Get a decent phone mount and a charging cable
b) Install Google Navigation
c) Turn on data and GPS
d) Tell it where you want to go
--
Fenny
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2017-02-03 23:41:46 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Fenny
Post by Vicky
In central London things change quite quickly with new developments. I
had to meet #2 daugthre at a restaurant near Kings Cross and neither
the sat nav nor the A-Z, which is older, had heard of the road or the
one leading to it. Luckily I'd googled before setting out and had a
vague idea and had to keep stopping to ask directions.
This is why I use Google maps on my phone as a satnav these days. The
previous one was built in to the car and no update CDs were available.
Now, it's all as up to date as Google is and it works in whatever
country I happen to be in.
As long as you (a) are within range of a mobile data signal (b) have a
suitable data account (c) don't mind paying for it.

_If_ you are within range of your home wifi, you can download the maps
for the local area, and not use mobile data - but I think you have to
tell your 'phone not to.

Having said all that, my blind friend likes to use hers to guide me, and
it does seem to work well. In her case, the 'phone is like a
long-married couple arguing (well, they usually agree, but with
interesting variations): Google maps is a lady voice, which comes on I
think by default when you select Google maps navigation guidance;
however, in her case, her 'phone is set to speak most screen text, so
the default voice output (which she has set to a man, Daniel) also reads
the directions. The two don't speak at the same instant, so it is quite
interesting to hear how they differ. (Also, being a dedicated nav. app,
"she" gets certain things right, whereas being a general-purpose speech
app., "he" tends to say some things wrong, such as "St" - saint, "Dr" -
doctor.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

once described by Eccentrica Golumbits as the best bang since the big one ...
(first series, fit the second)
Fenny
2017-02-04 00:55:01 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Fri, 3 Feb 2017 23:41:46 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Fenny
This is why I use Google maps on my phone as a satnav these days. The
previous one was built in to the car and no update CDs were available.
Now, it's all as up to date as Google is and it works in whatever
country I happen to be in.
As long as you (a) are within range of a mobile data signal (b) have a
suitable data account (c) don't mind paying for it.
Data contracts are improving rapidly. I've just acquired a new SIM
card from Three that gives me 12Gb of data a month and works in most
of Yorp plus Leftpondia. It should cover any travelling I do in the
next 12 months.
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
_If_ you are within range of your home wifi, you can download the maps
for the local area, and not use mobile data - but I think you have to
tell your 'phone not to.
I've never really got that to work well, even when I'm using wifi
abroad.
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Having said all that, my blind friend likes to use hers to guide me, and
it does seem to work well. In her case, the 'phone is like a
long-married couple arguing (well, they usually agree, but with
interesting variations): Google maps is a lady voice, which comes on I
think by default when you select Google maps navigation guidance;
however, in her case, her 'phone is set to speak most screen text, so
the default voice output (which she has set to a man, Daniel) also reads
the directions. The two don't speak at the same instant, so it is quite
interesting to hear how they differ. (Also, being a dedicated nav. app,
"she" gets certain things right, whereas being a general-purpose speech
app., "he" tends to say some things wrong, such as "St" - saint, "Dr" -
doctor.)
My Amazon Echo really doesn't like abbreviations. If I ask what's on
my calendar, things like "Hair Appt" and the like tend to come out
rather strangely. And, like my navigation system, I'd rather it had a
different voice. I always wanted my old satnav to sound like Giles
from Buffy the Vampire Slayer. I don't tend to use the voice
navigation when I'm driving, as it's easy enough to look at the map
and I don't want it interupting the radio. I do use it when I'm
walking, but it tends to get drowned out by traffic noise most of the
time.
--
Fenny
David Medcalf
2017-02-04 08:09:17 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Fenny: >>And, like my navigation system, I'd rather it had a
different voice. I always wanted my old satnav to sound like Giles
from Buffy the Vampire Slayer<<

My Australian bother-in-law has HM the Queen as his (Oz) satnav voice. In itself it's very amusing, but it cracks me up when she says things like "Oh bugger, bugger, bugger, one has gorn wrong - make a jolly old U turn".
Fenny
2017-02-04 09:19:11 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sat, 4 Feb 2017 00:09:17 -0800 (PST), David Medcalf
Post by David Medcalf
Fenny: >>And, like my navigation system, I'd rather it had a
different voice. I always wanted my old satnav to sound like Giles
from Buffy the Vampire Slayer<<
My Australian bother-in-law has HM the Queen as his (Oz) satnav voice. In itself it's very amusing, but it cracks me up when she says things like "Oh bugger, bugger, bugger, one has gorn wrong - make a jolly old U turn".
Yes, it has to have the personality to go with the voice.
--
Fenny
steveski
2017-02-04 09:19:11 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Fenny: >>And, like my navigation system, I'd rather it had a different
voice. I always wanted my old satnav to sound like Giles from Buffy the
Vampire Slayer<<
My Australian bother-in-law has HM the Queen as his (Oz) satnav voice.
In itself it's very amusing, but it cracks me up when she says things
like "Oh bugger, bugger, bugger, one has gorn wrong - make a jolly old U
turn".
A friend of mine got his mother to record the whole (or near as) vocab.
of his sat nav. So now it's his Mum telling him to turn right etc. etc.
--
Steveski
Fenny
2017-02-04 10:53:12 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by steveski
Fenny: >>And, like my navigation system, I'd rather it had a different
voice. I always wanted my old satnav to sound like Giles from Buffy the
Vampire Slayer<<
My Australian bother-in-law has HM the Queen as his (Oz) satnav voice.
In itself it's very amusing, but it cracks me up when she says things
like "Oh bugger, bugger, bugger, one has gorn wrong - make a jolly old U
turn".
A friend of mine got his mother to record the whole (or near as) vocab.
of his sat nav. So now it's his Mum telling him to turn right etc. etc.
I used to turn the sat nav on in the car when Ma was with me, cos she
stopped talkng while it was giving directions!
--
Fenny
Joe Kerr
2017-02-04 20:47:54 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Fenny
Post by steveski
Fenny: >>And, like my navigation system, I'd rather it had a different
voice. I always wanted my old satnav to sound like Giles from Buffy the
Vampire Slayer<<
My Australian bother-in-law has HM the Queen as his (Oz) satnav voice.
In itself it's very amusing, but it cracks me up when she says things
like "Oh bugger, bugger, bugger, one has gorn wrong - make a jolly old U
turn".
A friend of mine got his mother to record the whole (or near as) vocab.
of his sat nav. So now it's his Mum telling him to turn right etc. etc.
I used to turn the sat nav on in the car when Ma was with me, cos she
stopped talkng while it was giving directions!
If I have my Aunt in the car with the satnav she keeps talking back to
it. Mainly thanking it for telling me to take a turning or getting us to
the destination.
--
Ric
Penny
2017-02-04 22:02:49 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sat, 4 Feb 2017 20:47:54 +0000, Joe Kerr <***@cheerful.com>
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Joe Kerr
If I have my Aunt in the car with the satnav she keeps talking back to
it. Mainly thanking it for telling me to take a turning or getting us to
the destination.
Soon after he bought our first sat nav Ray said he'd got it to give me
someone else to argue with on car journeys ;)
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
BrritSki
2017-02-05 08:26:52 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Joe Kerr
Post by Fenny
I used to turn the sat nav on in the car when Ma was with me, cos she
stopped talkng while it was giving directions!
If I have my Aunt in the car with the satnav she keeps talking back to
it. Mainly thanking it for telling me to take a turning or getting us to
the destination.
We once rented a car in Hamburg to drive to Denamrk. I was upgraded to a
rather nice BMW 5 series with Satnav and switched it to English, where
the lady was perfectly understandeable but had a noticeable German accent.

At one point BrratSki mimiced the accent and said "In 500 metres, turn
left and invade Poland".

Naughtily racist, but very funny...
Vicky
2017-02-04 11:42:46 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sat, 4 Feb 2017 00:09:17 -0800 (PST), David Medcalf
Post by David Medcalf
Fenny: >>And, like my navigation system, I'd rather it had a
different voice. I always wanted my old satnav to sound like Giles
from Buffy the Vampire Slayer<<
My Australian bother-in-law has HM the Queen as his (Oz) satnav voice. In itself it's very amusing, but it cracks me up when she says things like "Oh bugger, bugger, bugger, one has gorn wrong - make a jolly old U turn".
Apparently we used to have Yoda. Third exit on the rountabout you will
take.
--
Vicky
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2017-02-04 09:53:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Fenny
On Fri, 3 Feb 2017 23:41:46 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Fenny
This is why I use Google maps on my phone as a satnav these days. The
previous one was built in to the car and no update CDs were available.
Now, it's all as up to date as Google is and it works in whatever
country I happen to be in.
As long as you (a) are within range of a mobile data signal (b) have a
suitable data account (c) don't mind paying for it.
Data contracts are improving rapidly. I've just acquired a new SIM
card from Three that gives me 12Gb of data a month and works in most
of Yorp plus Leftpondia. It should cover any travelling I do in the
next 12 months.
Since it gives you so much a month, I presume it also involves you in
paying so much a month. Since I'm a minimal user of my smartphone, I
don't; I have Virgin and 3 PAYG SIMs.
Post by Fenny
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
_If_ you are within range of your home wifi, you can download the maps
for the local area, and not use mobile data - but I think you have to
tell your 'phone not to.
I've never really got that to work well, even when I'm using wifi
abroad.
From observing my blind friend's use of it, it does seem rather fiddly.
Though recently when driving outside the good coverage area, it did seem
to work, so I think it must download a bit of map anyway.
[]
Post by Fenny
from Buffy the Vampire Slayer. I don't tend to use the voice
navigation when I'm driving, as it's easy enough to look at the map
and I don't want it interupting the radio. I do use it when I'm
walking, but it tends to get drowned out by traffic noise most of the
time.
I'd have thought you'd turn it off as you're using it on its internal
battery when walking, and presumably that runs it down faster? Or does
it have a good battery (and/or powersaving facility like turning off the
backlight between directions)?
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Society has the right to punish wrongdoing; it doesn't have the right to make
punishment a form of entertainment. This is where things have gone wrong:
humiliating other people has become both a blood sport and a narcotic.
- Joe Queenan, RT 2015/6/27-7/3
Fenny
2017-02-04 10:51:09 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sat, 4 Feb 2017 09:53:21 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Fenny
Data contracts are improving rapidly. I've just acquired a new SIM
card from Three that gives me 12Gb of data a month and works in most
of Yorp plus Leftpondia. It should cover any travelling I do in the
next 12 months.
Since it gives you so much a month, I presume it also involves you in
paying so much a month. Since I'm a minimal user of my smartphone, I
don't; I have Virgin and 3 PAYG SIMs.
I have a monthly contract just so that I have data when I need it,
although I use the phone more these days as a phone than I ever did
(still not that much).

My current contract has 500Mb and is about to end. Three had some
good SIM only deals on in the January sales, so I got this 12Gb for
£12/month. I don't need a new phone, so I'm only paying a couple of
quid a month more for another 11.5Gb than I was paying for my old
contract. The reduction in minutes from 600 to 200 is irrelevant.
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Fenny
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
_If_ you are within range of your home wifi, you can download the maps
for the local area, and not use mobile data - but I think you have to
tell your 'phone not to.
I don't tend to use the voice
navigation when I'm driving, as it's easy enough to look at the map
and I don't want it interupting the radio. I do use it when I'm
walking, but it tends to get drowned out by traffic noise most of the
time.
I'd have thought you'd turn it off as you're using it on its internal
battery when walking, and presumably that runs it down faster? Or does
it have a good battery (and/or powersaving facility like turning off the
backlight between directions)?
I only use it when I'm trying to find a specific address in a place I
don't know well, but need to be there for a certain time. And I turn
most things off when I'm not actively using them.
--
Fenny
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2017-02-04 11:58:15 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Fenny
On Sat, 4 Feb 2017 09:53:21 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
[]
Post by Fenny
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Since it gives you so much a month, I presume it also involves you in
paying so much a month. Since I'm a minimal user of my smartphone, I
don't; I have Virgin and 3 PAYG SIMs.
[]
Post by Fenny
My current contract has 500Mb and is about to end. Three had some
good SIM only deals on in the January sales, so I got this 12Gb for
£12/month. I don't need a new phone, so I'm only paying a couple of
quid a month more for another 11.5Gb than I was paying for my old
contract. The reduction in minutes from 600 to 200 is irrelevant.
[]
I spend significantly less than 12 a _year_ on my mobile (-:
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Intelligence isn't complete without the full picture and the full picture is
all about doubt. Otherwise, you go the way of George Bush. - baroness Eliza
Manningham-Buller (former head of MI5), Radio Times 3-9 September 2011.
Fenny
2017-02-04 13:42:47 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sat, 4 Feb 2017 11:58:15 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
I'm sure you do. I use my data when I'm abroad and don't want to pay
stupid roaming charges. Now that I can use a UK SIM, it saves me
having to fork out a lot for a local SIM where I am visiting.
--
Fenny
Chris J Dixon
2017-02-05 09:57:57 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Me too! My initial £5 comfortably lasted my first year with 3.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham
'48/33 M B+ G++ A L(-) I S-- CH0(--)(p) Ar- T+ H0 ?Q
***@cdixon.me.uk
Plant amazing Acers.
Fenny
2017-02-05 10:34:44 UTC
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Post by Chris J Dixon
Me too! My initial £5 comfortably lasted my first year with 3.
That's the best thing about 3 - their credit doesn't expire. I think
it's a major scam that it does with the other carriers.
--
Fenny
DavidK
2017-02-05 10:49:49 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Fenny
Post by Chris J Dixon
Me too! My initial £5 comfortably lasted my first year with 3.
That's the best thing about 3 - their credit doesn't expire. I think
it's a major scam that it does with the other carriers.
Which? I haven't come across that.
Fenny
2017-02-05 11:06:52 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by DavidK
Post by Fenny
Post by Chris J Dixon
Me too! My initial £5 comfortably lasted my first year with 3.
That's the best thing about 3 - their credit doesn't expire. I think
it's a major scam that it does with the other carriers.
Which? I haven't come across that.
Most PAYG carriers will expire your credit if you haven't used the
phone in about 3 months. So for someone like Pa, who rarely uses his,
his credit expires.
--
Fenny
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2017-02-05 12:48:37 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Fenny
Post by DavidK
Post by Fenny
Post by Chris J Dixon
Me too! My initial £5 comfortably lasted my first year with 3.
That's the best thing about 3 - their credit doesn't expire. I think
it's a major scam that it does with the other carriers.
I suspect that's because it's a combined voice/texts/data one.
Post by Fenny
Post by DavidK
Which? I haven't come across that.
It's called 3-2-1 (or possibly 1-2-3), because it's 3p a minute, 2p a
text, and 1p a megabyte (I think; the 3 and 1 could be the other way
round). Not only the non-expire thing, but quite competitive (*for a
PAYG*) too.
Post by Fenny
Most PAYG carriers will expire your credit if you haven't used the
phone in about 3 months. So for someone like Pa, who rarely uses his,
his credit expires.
I think it's that they cut off the number; it doesn't surprise me that
that also kills any credit, though )-:. Still, making one call about
four times a year is no hardship (other than remembering to do it!).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Sometimes you win, sometimes you learn.
DavidK
2017-02-05 15:28:14 UTC
Permalink
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Post by Fenny
Most PAYG carriers will expire your credit if you haven't used the
phone in about 3 months. So for someone like Pa, who rarely uses his,
his credit expires.
Most PAYG carriers will retire and recycle the telephone number, though
I think EE uses 6 months but don't take my word for that. This is not
the same as expiring credit if it isn't used.
p***@never.here
2017-02-06 10:18:24 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sun, 05 Feb 2017 11:06:52 +0000, Fenny
Post by Fenny
Post by DavidK
Post by Fenny
Post by Chris J Dixon
Me too! My initial £5 comfortably lasted my first year with 3.
That's the best thing about 3 - their credit doesn't expire. I think
it's a major scam that it does with the other carriers.
Which? I haven't come across that.
Most PAYG carriers will expire your credit if you haven't used the
phone in about 3 months. So for someone like Pa, who rarely uses his,
his credit expires.
Virgin Mobile is one of them. You need to make at least one chargeable
call every 3 months to keep the credit from expiring.
--
Pete
vk
2017-02-06 12:39:53 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by p***@never.here
On Sun, 05 Feb 2017 11:06:52 +0000, Fenny
Post by Fenny
Post by DavidK
Post by Fenny
Post by Chris J Dixon
Me too! My initial £5 comfortably lasted my first year with 3.
That's the best thing about 3 - their credit doesn't expire. I think
it's a major scam that it does with the other carriers.
Which? I haven't come across that.
Most PAYG carriers will expire your credit if you haven't used the
phone in about 3 months. So for someone like Pa, who rarely uses his,
his credit expires.
Virgin Mobile is one of them. You need to make at least one chargeable
call every 3 months to keep the credit from expiring.
Vodafone is another one.
Flop
2017-02-06 15:51:39 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by vk
Post by p***@never.here
On Sun, 05 Feb 2017 11:06:52 +0000, Fenny
Post by Fenny
Post by DavidK
Post by Fenny
Post by Chris J Dixon
Me too! My initial £5 comfortably lasted my first year with 3.
That's the best thing about 3 - their credit doesn't expire. I think
it's a major scam that it does with the other carriers.
Which? I haven't come across that.
Most PAYG carriers will expire your credit if you haven't used the
phone in about 3 months. So for someone like Pa, who rarely uses his,
his credit expires.
Virgin Mobile is one of them. You need to make at least one chargeable
call every 3 months to keep the credit from expiring.
Vodafone is another one.
ASDA mobile is 180days:

https://mobile.asda.com/terms-conditions

[See 3(c)]
--
Flop

2016 Resolution - lose 10pounds.
Only 15 pounds to go.
Vicky
2017-02-04 11:40:09 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sat, 04 Feb 2017 00:55:01 +0000, Fenny
Post by Fenny
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Fenny
This is why I use Google maps on my phone as a satnav these days. The
previous one was built in to the car and no update CDs were available.
Now, it's all as up to date as Google is and it works in whatever
country I happen to be in.
As long as you (a) are within range of a mobile data signal (b) have a
suitable data account (c) don't mind paying for it.
Data contracts are improving rapidly. I've just acquired a new SIM
card from Three that gives me 12Gb of data a month and works in most
of Yorp plus Leftpondia. It should cover any travelling I do in the
next 12 months.
We've got wifi in the car. It was an introduction offer though so I
can't recall how long for before we pay again.
--
Vicky
the Omrud
2017-02-04 15:04:07 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Vicky
On Sat, 04 Feb 2017 00:55:01 +0000, Fenny
Post by Fenny
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Fenny
This is why I use Google maps on my phone as a satnav these days. The
previous one was built in to the car and no update CDs were available.
Now, it's all as up to date as Google is and it works in whatever
country I happen to be in.
As long as you (a) are within range of a mobile data signal (b) have a
suitable data account (c) don't mind paying for it.
Data contracts are improving rapidly. I've just acquired a new SIM
card from Three that gives me 12Gb of data a month and works in most
of Yorp plus Leftpondia. It should cover any travelling I do in the
next 12 months.
We've got wifi in the car. It was an introduction offer though so I
can't recall how long for before we pay again.
How does the car connect to the Internet?
--
David
John Ashby
2017-02-04 17:57:18 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by the Omrud
Post by Vicky
On Sat, 04 Feb 2017 00:55:01 +0000, Fenny
Post by Fenny
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Fenny
This is why I use Google maps on my phone as a satnav these days. The
previous one was built in to the car and no update CDs were available.
Now, it's all as up to date as Google is and it works in whatever
country I happen to be in.
As long as you (a) are within range of a mobile data signal (b) have a
suitable data account (c) don't mind paying for it.
Data contracts are improving rapidly. I've just acquired a new SIM
card from Three that gives me 12Gb of data a month and works in most
of Yorp plus Leftpondia. It should cover any travelling I do in the
next 12 months.
We've got wifi in the car. It was an introduction offer though so I
can't recall how long for before we pay again.
How does the car connect to the Internet?
With a very long ethernet cable (through a cat5alytic converter).

john
Mike McMillan
2017-02-04 18:06:22 UTC
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Post by John Ashby
With a very long ethernet cable (through a cat5alytic converter).
john
Groooan!
--
Toodle Pip
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2017-02-04 20:50:27 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
[]
Post by John Ashby
Post by the Omrud
How does the car connect to the Internet?
With a very long ethernet cable (through a cat5alytic converter).
john
GROAN! VG.

(For puzzled UMRAts: the cables from which ethernet cables are made come
in various qualities, relating to how they are constructed - wire type,
what screens, and so on. Or they used to; "category 5", or cat5 for
short, is more or less universal these days for general-purpose ethernet
cables.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

A dishwasher is rubbish at making treacle sponge. - Marjorie in UMRA, 2017-1-15
Vicky
2017-02-04 18:30:23 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by the Omrud
Post by Vicky
On Sat, 04 Feb 2017 00:55:01 +0000, Fenny
Post by Fenny
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Fenny
This is why I use Google maps on my phone as a satnav these days. The
previous one was built in to the car and no update CDs were available.
Now, it's all as up to date as Google is and it works in whatever
country I happen to be in.
As long as you (a) are within range of a mobile data signal (b) have a
suitable data account (c) don't mind paying for it.
Data contracts are improving rapidly. I've just acquired a new SIM
card from Three that gives me 12Gb of data a month and works in most
of Yorp plus Leftpondia. It should cover any travelling I do in the
next 12 months.
We've got wifi in the car. It was an introduction offer though so I
can't recall how long for before we pay again.
How does the car connect to the Internet?
It's a wifi hub, or something like that.
--
Vicky
the Omrud
2017-02-04 18:46:55 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Vicky
Post by the Omrud
Post by Vicky
We've got wifi in the car. It was an introduction offer though so I
can't recall how long for before we pay again.
How does the car connect to the Internet?
It's a wifi hub, or something like that.
Really, it isn't <grin>, at least it isn't if your car ever strays more
than 100 yards from your home. WiFi is just a way of sharing the
Internet around your house or office. Or car, apparently. But the
house or car has to have a connection to the Internet in order to make
it available to the inhabitants. I'm honestly curious about how your
car gets the Internet in the first place. The only possible answer is
via mobile data, like on your phone, but for that you'd need a data SIM
in the car, and a way of paying for whatever data the people in the car
consume.
--
David
Penny
2017-02-04 19:39:06 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sat, 4 Feb 2017 18:46:55 +0000, the Omrud <***@gmail.com>
scrawled in the dust...
Post by the Omrud
Post by Vicky
Post by the Omrud
Post by Vicky
We've got wifi in the car. It was an introduction offer though so I
can't recall how long for before we pay again.
How does the car connect to the Internet?
It's a wifi hub, or something like that.
Really, it isn't <grin>, at least it isn't if your car ever strays more
than 100 yards from your home. WiFi is just a way of sharing the
Internet around your house or office. Or car, apparently. But the
house or car has to have a connection to the Internet in order to make
it available to the inhabitants. I'm honestly curious about how your
car gets the Internet in the first place. The only possible answer is
via mobile data, like on your phone, but for that you'd need a data SIM
in the car, and a way of paying for whatever data the people in the car
consume.
Isn't it what they call mifi? I've met it on camp sites (amongst the
neighbours).
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
the Omrud
2017-02-04 19:48:42 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by the Omrud
Post by Vicky
Post by the Omrud
Post by Vicky
We've got wifi in the car. It was an introduction offer though so I
can't recall how long for before we pay again.
How does the car connect to the Internet?
It's a wifi hub, or something like that.
Really, it isn't <grin>, at least it isn't if your car ever strays more
than 100 yards from your home. WiFi is just a way of sharing the
Internet around your house or office. Or car, apparently. But the
house or car has to have a connection to the Internet in order to make
it available to the inhabitants. I'm honestly curious about how your
car gets the Internet in the first place. The only possible answer is
via mobile data, like on your phone, but for that you'd need a data SIM
in the car, and a way of paying for whatever data the people in the car
consume.
Isn't it what they call mifi? I've met it on camp sites (amongst the
neighbours).
I think that's a brand, but yes, it is. However, there's an ongoing
cost which somebody must be paying, and a contract to maintain for the
access.
--
David
Vicky
2017-02-04 22:01:44 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by the Omrud
Post by Vicky
Post by the Omrud
Post by Vicky
We've got wifi in the car. It was an introduction offer though so I
can't recall how long for before we pay again.
How does the car connect to the Internet?
It's a wifi hub, or something like that.
Really, it isn't <grin>, at least it isn't if your car ever strays more
than 100 yards from your home. WiFi is just a way of sharing the
Internet around your house or office. Or car, apparently. But the
house or car has to have a connection to the Internet in order to make
it available to the inhabitants. I'm honestly curious about how your
car gets the Internet in the first place. The only possible answer is
via mobile data, like on your phone, but for that you'd need a data SIM
in the car, and a way of paying for whatever data the people in the car
consume.
Isn't it what they call mifi? I've met it on camp sites (amongst the
neighbours).
It's free to use. It comes with Onstar, they can track the car and
send help if I crash and we can track the car from home too.

http://trucks.about.com/od/truckaccessory/a/OnStar.htm?utm_term=can+you+track+a+vehicle+with+onstar&utm_content=p1-main-1-title&utm_medium=sem&utm_source=msn_s&utm_campaign=adid-c5baabd0-9a18-4a8c-b7cf-62a6c2df453d-0-ab_msb_ocode-31669&ad=semD&an=msn_s&am=broad&q=can+you+track+a+vehicle+with+onstar&o=31669&qsrc=999&l=sem&askid=c5baabd0-9a18-4a8c-b7cf-62a6c2df453d-0-ab_msb


Actually that says it has GPS navigation. I must try that next time.
Don't think that was explained when I was told about it. I can press
the button and ask though. They are very nice if you do that. I had to
ask for help after baby granddaughter played around in the car
pressing buttons and I lost the onstar viehicle location ability.
--
Vicky
the Omrud
2017-02-05 10:08:56 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Vicky
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by the Omrud
Post by Vicky
Post by the Omrud
Post by Vicky
We've got wifi in the car. It was an introduction offer though so I
can't recall how long for before we pay again.
How does the car connect to the Internet?
It's a wifi hub, or something like that.
Really, it isn't <grin>, at least it isn't if your car ever strays more
than 100 yards from your home. WiFi is just a way of sharing the
Internet around your house or office. Or car, apparently. But the
house or car has to have a connection to the Internet in order to make
it available to the inhabitants. I'm honestly curious about how your
car gets the Internet in the first place. The only possible answer is
via mobile data, like on your phone, but for that you'd need a data SIM
in the car, and a way of paying for whatever data the people in the car
consume.
Isn't it what they call mifi? I've met it on camp sites (amongst the
neighbours).
It's free to use. It comes with Onstar, they can track the car and
send help if I crash and we can track the car from home too.
http://trucks.about.com/od/truckaccessory/a/OnStar.htm?utm_term=can+you+track+a+vehicle+with+onstar&utm_content=p1-main-1-title&utm_medium=sem&utm_source=msn_s&utm_campaign=adid-c5baabd0-9a18-4a8c-b7cf-62a6c2df453d-0-ab_msb_ocode-31669&ad=semD&an=msn_s&am=broad&q=can+you+track+a+vehicle+with+onstar&o=31669&qsrc=999&l=sem&askid=c5baabd0-9a18-4a8c-b7cf-62a6c2df453d-0-ab_msb
Actually that says it has GPS navigation. I must try that next time.
Don't think that was explained when I was told about it. I can press
the button and ask though. They are very nice if you do that. I had to
ask for help after baby granddaughter played around in the car
pressing buttons and I lost the onstar viehicle location ability.
That's all very cool - I had vaguely heard of such things being
available in the US, but not yet in the UK.
--
David
Fenny
2017-02-04 19:39:29 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by the Omrud
Really, it isn't <grin>, at least it isn't if your car ever strays more
than 100 yards from your home. WiFi is just a way of sharing the
Internet around your house or office. Or car, apparently. But the
house or car has to have a connection to the Internet in order to make
it available to the inhabitants. I'm honestly curious about how your
car gets the Internet in the first place. The only possible answer is
via mobile data, like on your phone, but for that you'd need a data SIM
in the car, and a way of paying for whatever data the people in the car
consume.
Something like this, I would imagine
http://shop.ee.co.uk/dongles/pay-monthly-mobile-broadband/buzzard-2-from-ee/details#

I assume you can get them built in to the car these days and new cars
probably come with the first year's data "free", ie included in the
purchase price. That will feed the car's built in browser that lets
you find the nearest pizza place etc.

I have a mifi device, which I could easily stick in the car if I was
transporting a bunch of people who all wanted to be able to run their
tablets from it. With a big enough data contract and a powerful
enough phone, you could just activate the phone's hotspot.
--
Fenny
the Omrud
2017-02-04 19:51:37 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Fenny
Post by the Omrud
Really, it isn't <grin>, at least it isn't if your car ever strays more
than 100 yards from your home. WiFi is just a way of sharing the
Internet around your house or office. Or car, apparently. But the
house or car has to have a connection to the Internet in order to make
it available to the inhabitants. I'm honestly curious about how your
car gets the Internet in the first place. The only possible answer is
via mobile data, like on your phone, but for that you'd need a data SIM
in the car, and a way of paying for whatever data the people in the car
consume.
Something like this, I would imagine
http://shop.ee.co.uk/dongles/pay-monthly-mobile-broadband/buzzard-2-from-ee/details#
I assume you can get them built in to the car these days and new cars
probably come with the first year's data "free", ie included in the
purchase price. That will feed the car's built in browser that lets
you find the nearest pizza place etc.
Very likely, but how much data do you get? There must surely be an
agreement, or at least a limit.
Post by Fenny
I have a mifi device, which I could easily stick in the car if I was
transporting a bunch of people who all wanted to be able to run their
tablets from it. With a big enough data contract and a powerful
enough phone, you could just activate the phone's hotspot.
Indeed. When I was still working, we were encouraged to use our phones
instead of paying for Internet when travelling. The corporate data
limit was so vast, and shared between 10,000+ users, that we could
easily afford to share it out from our phones to our laptops and not
worry about the usage.
--
David
Fenny
2017-02-04 20:08:31 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by the Omrud
Post by Fenny
I assume you can get them built in to the car these days and new cars
probably come with the first year's data "free", ie included in the
purchase price. That will feed the car's built in browser that lets
you find the nearest pizza place etc.
Very likely, but how much data do you get? There must surely be an
agreement, or at least a limit.
Yes, I should think there will be a limit. If it's built in to the
car, there will most likely be some relationship between the car
manufacturers and mobile provider. Whatever the contract is will be
discussed at purchase.
--
Fenny
the Omrud
2017-02-04 20:10:56 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Fenny
Post by the Omrud
Post by Fenny
I assume you can get them built in to the car these days and new cars
probably come with the first year's data "free", ie included in the
purchase price. That will feed the car's built in browser that lets
you find the nearest pizza place etc.
Very likely, but how much data do you get? There must surely be an
agreement, or at least a limit.
Yes, I should think there will be a limit. If it's built in to the
car, there will most likely be some relationship between the car
manufacturers and mobile provider. Whatever the contract is will be
discussed at purchase.
Right, which is why I asked Vicky, because I am interested in such
things. Perhaps she was not the negotiator of the purchase.
--
David
BrritSki
2017-02-05 08:24:00 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by the Omrud
Post by Fenny
Post by the Omrud
Post by Fenny
I assume you can get them built in to the car these days and new cars
probably come with the first year's data "free", ie included in the
purchase price. That will feed the car's built in browser that lets
you find the nearest pizza place etc.
Very likely, but how much data do you get? There must surely be an
agreement, or at least a limit.
Yes, I should think there will be a limit. If it's built in to the
car, there will most likely be some relationship between the car
manufacturers and mobile provider. Whatever the contract is will be
discussed at purchase.
Right, which is why I asked Vicky, because I am interested in such
things. Perhaps she was not the negotiator of the purchase.
Many top-end cars have built-in satnavs that get live data. Some also
have a system whereby if it detects a crash it automatically dials the
emergency services with the location. That latter must require a SIM
card and I'm guessing live traffic updates would use the same too,
although it might get it off the radio. I think the SatNav in my 10 yo
RAV4 does that as it shows some motorway roadworks and accidents, but
has very limited info and almost certainly doesn't have a built-in SIM.

I used to have a system (Trafficmaster ?) some 20 years ago which was a
clunky box with a green screen on it and a moveable/zoomable stylised
map that showed average speeds on all the roads. The system gathered
info from those cameras on blue poles that you still see around I think,
that read numberplates and worked out the time taken between poles for
each car. The info was transmitted to the box in my car by radio I think
as it was very current. It was a subscriber service - not cheap, but
worth every penny to avoid long delays when I was commuting on A1/M25.
the Omrud
2017-02-05 10:12:28 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by BrritSki
Many top-end cars have built-in satnavs that get live data. Some also
have a system whereby if it detects a crash it automatically dials the
emergency services with the location. That latter must require a SIM
card and I'm guessing live traffic updates would use the same too,
although it might get it off the radio. I think the SatNav in my 10 yo
RAV4 does that as it shows some motorway roadworks and accidents, but
has very limited info and almost certainly doesn't have a built-in SIM.
Traffic updates come over FM radio, piggybacked onto a channel. Since
it's best if this is national, and since the BBC won't carry it because
it's a commercial service, in the UK it's only provided by Classic FM.
As you say, it's download only - there's no mechanism for the car to
talk back.
Post by BrritSki
I used to have a system (Trafficmaster ?) some 20 years ago which was a
clunky box with a green screen on it and a moveable/zoomable stylised
map that showed average speeds on all the roads. The system gathered
info from those cameras on blue poles that you still see around I think,
that read numberplates and worked out the time taken between poles for
each car. The info was transmitted to the box in my car by radio I think
as it was very current. It was a subscriber service - not cheap, but
worth every penny to avoid long delays when I was commuting on A1/M25.
I think that the current traffic alert system is a descendent of
Trafficmaster.
--
David
Penny
2017-02-05 12:03:37 UTC
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On Sun, 5 Feb 2017 10:12:28 +0000, the Omrud <***@gmail.com>
scrawled in the dust...
Post by the Omrud
Traffic updates come over FM radio, piggybacked onto a channel. Since
it's best if this is national, and since the BBC won't carry it because
it's a commercial service, in the UK it's only provided by Classic FM.
But most car radios do have traffic reports which come from BBC local radio
- very annoying when they forget to send the [end] signal (or whatever) but
still useful at times. Like the day we were approaching J29 on the M1 and
heard there were long tail-backs northbound between J29 and J30 following
an accident so we took the exit.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Fenny
2017-02-05 13:16:47 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by the Omrud
Traffic updates come over FM radio, piggybacked onto a channel. Since
it's best if this is national, and since the BBC won't carry it because
it's a commercial service, in the UK it's only provided by Classic FM.
But most car radios do have traffic reports which come from BBC local radio
- very annoying when they forget to send the [end] signal (or whatever) but
still useful at times. Like the day we were approaching J29 on the M1 and
heard there were long tail-backs northbound between J29 and J30 following
an accident so we took the exit.
It's even more annoying when you've set the traffic announcements to
come on and they don't tell you there's a huge tail back and you end
up sitting in it when you could have quite easily gone a different
way.

This is one of the reasons I tend to put the sat nav on even when I'm
doing a journey I know well. At least Google Maps will tell you if
there are hold ups on the way and when they clear. More than once
I've taken a detour round hold ups on the M1 on a Sunday evening
because of alerts on the sat nav that didn't either come on the radio
or appear on the car's list of issues.
--
Fenny
Penny
2017-02-05 17:02:59 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sun, 05 Feb 2017 13:16:47 +0000, Fenny <***@onetel.com>
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Fenny
Post by Penny
But most car radios do have traffic reports which come from BBC local radio
- very annoying when they forget to send the [end] signal (or whatever) but
still useful at times. Like the day we were approaching J29 on the M1 and
heard there were long tail-backs northbound between J29 and J30 following
an accident so we took the exit.
It's even more annoying when you've set the traffic announcements to
come on and they don't tell you there's a huge tail back and you end
up sitting in it when you could have quite easily gone a different
way.
This is one of the reasons I tend to put the sat nav on even when I'm
doing a journey I know well. At least Google Maps will tell you if
there are hold ups on the way and when they clear. More than once
I've taken a detour round hold ups on the M1 on a Sunday evening
because of alerts on the sat nav that didn't either come on the radio
or appear on the car's list of issues.
I can see that nowadays, if you use a clever phone, this is a wonderful
solution. My story dates back to the late '90s long before I had a sat nav.

Even longer ago, trying to escape Cornwall in August, I tested d#1's map
reading skills by getting her to try and find us another route. We spent a
pleasant hour driving around little lanes before finding ourselves back in
the jam, about a mile from where we'd left it :(

I've a feeling that might have been the trip when we ended up returning to
Kent on the A27 having failed to find a B&B with any rooms available. We
eventually got home about 10pm.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Vicky
2017-02-05 18:19:49 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Penny
Even longer ago, trying to escape Cornwall in August, I tested d#1's map
reading skills by getting her to try and find us another route. We spent a
pleasant hour driving around little lanes before finding ourselves back in
the jam, about a mile from where we'd left it :(
Not just map reading, #1 daugher and I were unable even to spot vital
roads signs. Driving her from London to Manchester we got close to
Nottingham instead.
--
Vicky
Joe Kerr
2017-02-04 20:58:35 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by the Omrud
Post by Vicky
Post by the Omrud
Post by Vicky
We've got wifi in the car. It was an introduction offer though so I
can't recall how long for before we pay again.
How does the car connect to the Internet?
It's a wifi hub, or something like that.
Really, it isn't <grin>, at least it isn't if your car ever strays more
than 100 yards from your home. WiFi is just a way of sharing the
Internet around your house or office. Or car, apparently. But the
house or car has to have a connection to the Internet in order to make
it available to the inhabitants. I'm honestly curious about how your
car gets the Internet in the first place. The only possible answer is
via mobile data, like on your phone, but for that you'd need a data SIM
in the car, and a way of paying for whatever data the people in the car
consume.
I think they do have a SIM built in. It was probably BMW I was looking
at when I read something so try talking to your local dealer, or looking
at the technical section of their website. If not BMW it was Audi,
Mercedes, or Volvo.
--
Ric
Vicky
2017-02-04 21:55:00 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by the Omrud
Post by Vicky
Post by the Omrud
Post by Vicky
We've got wifi in the car. It was an introduction offer though so I
can't recall how long for before we pay again.
How does the car connect to the Internet?
It's a wifi hub, or something like that.
Really, it isn't <grin>, at least it isn't if your car ever strays more
than 100 yards from your home. WiFi is just a way of sharing the
Internet around your house or office. Or car, apparently. But the
house or car has to have a connection to the Internet in order to make
it available to the inhabitants. I'm honestly curious about how your
car gets the Internet in the first place. The only possible answer is
via mobile data, like on your phone, but for that you'd need a data SIM
in the car, and a way of paying for whatever data the people in the car
consume.
B says a 3 or 4 g sim card in the car.
--
Vicky
the Omrud
2017-02-05 10:13:13 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Vicky
Post by the Omrud
Post by Vicky
Post by the Omrud
Post by Vicky
We've got wifi in the car. It was an introduction offer though so I
can't recall how long for before we pay again.
How does the car connect to the Internet?
It's a wifi hub, or something like that.
Really, it isn't <grin>, at least it isn't if your car ever strays more
than 100 yards from your home. WiFi is just a way of sharing the
Internet around your house or office. Or car, apparently. But the
house or car has to have a connection to the Internet in order to make
it available to the inhabitants. I'm honestly curious about how your
car gets the Internet in the first place. The only possible answer is
via mobile data, like on your phone, but for that you'd need a data SIM
in the car, and a way of paying for whatever data the people in the car
consume.
B says a 3 or 4 g sim card in the car.
Thanks, that makes sense.
--
David
Sam Plusnet
2017-02-06 00:10:51 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by the Omrud
Post by Vicky
Post by the Omrud
Post by Vicky
Post by the Omrud
Post by Vicky
We've got wifi in the car. It was an introduction offer though so I
can't recall how long for before we pay again.
How does the car connect to the Internet?
It's a wifi hub, or something like that.
Really, it isn't <grin>, at least it isn't if your car ever strays more
than 100 yards from your home. WiFi is just a way of sharing the
Internet around your house or office. Or car, apparently. But the
house or car has to have a connection to the Internet in order to make
it available to the inhabitants. I'm honestly curious about how your
car gets the Internet in the first place. The only possible answer is
via mobile data, like on your phone, but for that you'd need a data SIM
in the car, and a way of paying for whatever data the people in the car
consume.
B says a 3 or 4 g sim card in the car.
Thanks, that makes sense.
My (free-standing) satnav has a built in SIM, gets (and sends) traffic
data from/to Tomtom and has no charges, monthly or otherwise (other than
the initial purchase price of the item).
The "Free Lifetime Maps Updates" actually expire at whatever point in
time Tomtom regard the device as obsolete - perhaps the data transfer
via the built in SIM will also cease at that point.
--
Sam Plusnet
Nick Odell
2017-02-03 00:16:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Joe Kerr
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by David Medcalf
I asked our postman how the post code system worked in this area. He
said "Post codes? I've no idea".
Well, I don't know about your area, but in most cases they seem to start
with one or two letters for a local town (possibly what used to be
called the "post town"), or in a few cases abbreviations that were
already in existence, such as in London. There then follow a one or two
digit number that subdivides the area; these usually seem to spiral out
from the centre, starting at 1, going up to 9, then 0, then 10 on
upwards. (I don't know how far up they go; I know NE [Newcastle] goes up
into the sixties.)
Birmingham makes it into the 90s, possibly all the way to 99, but there
is no 50 range so bad handwriting can't lead to confusion between B5x
and BSx which would be central Bristol.
? Where pre-existing codes are used, letters are added
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
instead, such as W1A for London.
That's the outbound code.
Followed by the inbound code.
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Then there's a space (though they're all carefully designed so that
they're not _ambiguous_, though much harder to follow, if you leave the
space out), and another number for a smaller area.
Finally, these small areas are divided into letter pairs. I have always
assumed these were created by local post offices, in most cases using a
random letter-pair generator supplied by the post office, but I've
always fondly imagined that in some cases they might have been the
initials of the postie whose round they were (-: Or something similar.
Some large companies have their own postcode(s) and can get to pick the
last two letters which may be the company initials, for example.
Otherwise they appear to be allocated in some logical sequence, normally
starting with AA, which will then be adjacent to AB, and probably have
AC round the corner.
The Girobank has its own postcode (GIR 0AA) that does not conform to the
rules.
The Girobank faded from existence and, according to Wikipedia, so did
that postcode. But for a while GIR 0AA was the last domestic postcode
with a fully alphabetical outward code.

Nick
Joe Kerr
2017-02-03 14:23:07 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Joe Kerr
The Girobank has its own postcode (GIR 0AA) that does not conform to the
rules.
The Girobank faded from existence and, according to Wikipedia, so did
that postcode. But for a while GIR 0AA was the last domestic postcode
with a fully alphabetical outward code.
Nick
More erosion of the British way of life. When will the madness end?
--
Ric
Jenny M Benson
2017-02-03 00:11:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Finally, these small areas are divided into letter pairs. I have always
assumed these were created by local post offices, in most cases using a
random letter-pair generator supplied by the post office, but I've
always fondly imagined that in some cases they might have been the
initials of the postie whose round they were (-: Or something similar.
It's hardly random as the last 2 letters increment as you move from one
"block" to the next. My postcode ends in NB; NA, NC, ND etc are all in
the vicinity of my residence.
--
Jenny M Benson
DavidMed
2017-02-03 08:04:25 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by David Medcalf
I asked our postman how the post code system worked in this area. He
said "Post codes? I've no idea".
Well, I don't know about your area, but in most cases they seem to start
with one or two letters for a local town (possibly what used to be
called the "post town"), or in a few cases abbreviations that were
already in existence, such as in London. There then follow a one or two
digit number that subdivides the area; these usually seem to spiral out
from the centre, starting at 1, going up to 9, then 0, then 10 on
upwards. (I don't know how far up they go; I know NE [Newcastle] goes up
into the sixties.) Where pre-existing codes are used, letters are added
instead, such as W1A for London.
--
Quantum particles: the dreams that stuff is made of - David Moser
Indeed that's how it works for towns and cities, but in the wilderness? My
postman qualified his remark by adding "I know where everybody lives....".
Which he probably did.

DM
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2017-02-03 18:52:39 UTC
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In message <o71di9$17eb$***@gioia.aioe.org>, DavidMed
<***@gmail.com> writes:
[]
Post by DavidMed
Indeed that's how it works for towns and cities, but in the wilderness? My
postman qualified his remark by adding "I know where everybody lives....".
Which he probably did.
DM
Did he have staring eyes, and an axe concealed behind his back?
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Grief generates a huge energy in you and it's better for everybody if you
harness it to do something. - Judi Dench, RT 2015/2/28-3/6
Peter Percival
2017-02-03 19:29:52 UTC
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Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by DavidMed
Indeed that's how it works for towns and cities, but in the
wilderness? My
postman qualified his remark by adding "I know where everybody lives....".
Which he probably did.
DM
Did he have staring eyes, and an axe concealed behind his back?
Here's postie!
--
Do, as a concession to my poor wits, Lord Darlington, just explain
to me what you really mean.
I think I had better not, Duchess. Nowadays to be intelligible is
to be found out. -- Oscar Wilde, Lady Windermere's Fan
Jane Vernon
2017-02-04 08:23:54 UTC
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Post by DavidMed
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by David Medcalf
I asked our postman how the post code system worked in this area. He
said "Post codes? I've no idea".
Well, I don't know about your area, but in most cases they seem to
start with one or two letters for a local town (possibly what used to
be called the "post town"), or in a few cases abbreviations that were
already in existence, such as in London. There then follow a one or
two digit number that subdivides the area; these usually seem to
spiral out from the centre, starting at 1, going up to 9, then 0, then
10 on upwards. (I don't know how far up they go; I know NE [Newcastle]
goes up into the sixties.) Where pre-existing codes are used, letters
are added instead, such as W1A for London.
--
Quantum particles: the dreams that stuff is made of - David Moser
Indeed that's how it works for towns and cities, but in the wilderness? My
postman qualified his remark by adding "I know where everybody lives....".
Which he probably did.
Rural locations always present a problem to urban-based systems. My
bank sent out my new bank card by courier to me in France one summer; it
never turned up so they cancelled it and sent by another method (I
forget what). Eventually the bank traced the original to a sorting
office in Paris, where it had been marked as undeliverable because it
didn't have the complete address. Apparently they couldn't imagine an
address could be complete without a street name and number.
--
Jane
The Potter in the Purple socks - to reply, please remove PURPLE
BTME

http://www.clothandclay.co.uk/umra/cookbook.htm - Umrats' recipes
Penny
2017-02-04 11:00:51 UTC
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On Sat, 4 Feb 2017 08:23:54 +0000, Jane Vernon
Post by Jane Vernon
Eventually the bank traced the original to a sorting
office in Paris, where it had been marked as undeliverable because it
didn't have the complete address. Apparently they couldn't imagine an
address could be complete without a street name and number.
Just goes to show how wonderful out postmen are. I have the news cutting
somewhere from when George Middleton and I tested post codes. I sent him a
postcard of my house and addressed it to G [number] [post code], he sent it
back addressed to This house [post code]. Half the village had seen it
before it got to me.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Mike McMillan
2017-02-04 11:20:44 UTC
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Post by Penny
Just goes to show how wonderful out postmen are. I have the news cutting
somewhere from when George Middleton and I tested post codes. I sent him a
postcard of my house and addressed it to G [number] [post code], he sent it
back addressed to This house [post code]. Half the village had seen it
before it got to me.
When posting items, I include sender's address in the form of house number
comma, post code. A few years back something was undeliverable and was
returned to me using this information only.
--
Toodle Pip
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2017-02-04 11:56:31 UTC
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Post by Mike McMillan
Post by Penny
Just goes to show how wonderful out postmen are. I have the news cutting
somewhere from when George Middleton and I tested post codes. I sent him a
postcard of my house and addressed it to G [number] [post code], he sent it
back addressed to This house [post code]. Half the village had seen it
before it got to me.
When posting items, I include sender's address in the form of house number
comma, post code. A few years back something was undeliverable and was
returned to me using this information only.
Google Maps will accept and find most postcodes (including the
single-user one for where I work).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Intelligence isn't complete without the full picture and the full picture is
all about doubt. Otherwise, you go the way of George Bush. - baroness Eliza
Manningham-Buller (former head of MI5), Radio Times 3-9 September 2011.
Nick Odell
2017-02-04 12:03:19 UTC
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On Sat, 4 Feb 2017 08:23:54 +0000, Jane Vernon
Post by Jane Vernon
Rural locations always present a problem to urban-based systems. My
bank sent out my new bank card by courier to me in France one summer; it
never turned up so they cancelled it and sent by another method (I
forget what). Eventually the bank traced the original to a sorting
office in Paris, where it had been marked as undeliverable because it
didn't have the complete address. Apparently they couldn't imagine an
address could be complete without a street name and number.
I know someone (and umrat Kate does too[1]) whose full address is

Name
Town
District etc


Nick
[1]Although more properly, that ought to read Kate knows someone,
etc...
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2017-02-04 12:09:17 UTC
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In message <***@4ax.com>, Nick Odell
<***@themusicworkshop.plus.com> writes:
[]
Post by Nick Odell
I know someone (and umrat Kate does too[1]) whose full address is
Name
Town
District etc
I believe "No. 1, London" used to be officially the mayor's address.
Post by Nick Odell
Nick
[1]Although more properly, that ought to read Kate knows someone,
etc...
(That made me think a while, but I can't actually see anything
wrong/ambiguous about what you put in the first place! It's a new
sentence, so I couldn't see how "does too" could mean anything other
than ... oh, I see, the "know/knows" dichotomy. Very nice![2])

[2] Using the original definition of nice.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Intelligence isn't complete without the full picture and the full picture is
all about doubt. Otherwise, you go the way of George Bush. - baroness Eliza
Manningham-Buller (former head of MI5), Radio Times 3-9 September 2011.
Nick Odell
2017-02-04 12:22:59 UTC
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On Sat, 4 Feb 2017 12:09:17 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by Nick Odell
I know someone (and umrat Kate does too[1]) whose full address is
Name
Town
District etc
I believe "No. 1, London" used to be officially the mayor's address.
Post by Nick Odell
Nick
[1]Although more properly, that ought to read Kate knows someone,
etc...
(That made me think a while, but I can't actually see anything
wrong/ambiguous about what you put in the first place! It's a new
sentence, so I couldn't see how "does too" could mean anything other
than ... oh, I see, the "know/knows" dichotomy. Very nice![2])
[2] Using the original definition of nice.
It was a hierarchical thing (I think!) Kate has known them for many
decades, me for barely one.

Nick
Fenny
2017-02-04 13:50:49 UTC
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On Sat, 4 Feb 2017 12:09:17 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I believe "No. 1, London" used to be officially the mayor's address.
Apsley House. Wellington's address.
--
Fenny
Mike McMillan
2017-02-04 15:04:05 UTC
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Post by Nick Odell
On Sat, 4 Feb 2017 12:09:17 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I believe "No. 1, London" used to be officially the mayor's address.
Apsley House. Wellington's address.
Not Boot Hill?
--
Toodle Pip
Jenny M Benson
2017-02-01 22:15:34 UTC
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Post by David Medcalf
A couple of years ago I was refused a mobile phone contract with
Orange ' because of my credit rating'. The contract was for a mighty
£5 a month. Like you I went to the agencies who allegedly make these
judgments - all fine. So I queried it with Orange - they declined to
go into any specifics, but said..... "Oh, you live in Wales -
probably our person mistyped your complicated address so the computer
couldn't find you and stopped the process". Very comforting.
My sister had a credit card transaction, conducted over the 'phone -
refused recently. On investigation it turned out that the vendors had
looked up her postcode and discovered her address included "Llaneurgain,
Yr Wyddgrug", whereas she and her credit card company thought she lived
in "Northop, Mold."
--
Jenny M Benson
Joe Kerr
2017-02-01 22:58:28 UTC
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Post by Jenny M Benson
My sister had a credit card transaction, conducted over the 'phone -
refused recently. On investigation it turned out that the vendors had
looked up her postcode and discovered her address included "Llaneurgain,
Yr Wyddgrug", whereas she and her credit card company thought she lived
in "Northop, Mold."
I found an address on a computer system at work once that looked like
completely unpronounceable gibberish. After a while I realised that if
you shifted every character one key right on the keyboard it made far
more sense. It had obviously been entered by a touch typist who wasn't
quite as good as they thought.
--
Ric
Peter Percival
2017-02-01 18:04:37 UTC
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Post by krw
I cannot remember if I told umra at my recent anxiety when denied a new
credit card on the basis (allegedly) of my credit record and telling me
to contact two credit reference agencies for an explanation of me being
a poor risk (and unlike Snappy I was not looking for £0.25m).
Having obtained the two files I could find nothing to substantiate being
a poor risk.
So I decided to raise my concerns with the credit card provider.
Today I am being sent a credit card. Apparently someone - and they do
not know who - entered my monthly income as my annual income and the
amount was not seen as being adequate to meet my liabilities.
This is notwithstanding that the two reports clearly indicate that the
amount going through two current credit cards each month is more than
the supposed net monthly amount entered.
So the computer said no. Now please give me human beings because
someone should have spotted the discrepancy because it was so large. And
does no-one do a check before sending out letters accusing a customer of
having a poor credit record - which is nasty allegation to make.
And of course they have had to compensate me and cover my costs - which
is my reason for not naming them. And in the scheme of things yes it is
not important - but why cause such upset in the first place?
30 years ago I tried to open an account with Barclays bank and I was
told I couldn't. I asked the teller why and she refused to tell me. So
I wrote to the manager to ask for an explanation, it consisted of a
photocopy of a County Court judgement against the person from whom I had
bought my house about two years previously. So this person and I had an
address in common but not at the same time.
--
Do, as a concession to my poor wits, Lord Darlington, just explain
to me what you really mean.
I think I had better not, Duchess. Nowadays to be intelligible is
to be found out. -- Oscar Wilde, Lady Windermere's Fan
krw
2017-02-01 23:16:13 UTC
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Post by Peter Percival
30 years ago I tried to open an account with Barclays bank and I was
told I couldn't. I asked the teller why and she refused to tell me. So
I wrote to the manager to ask for an explanation, it consisted of a
photocopy of a County Court judgement against the person from whom I had
bought my house about two years previously. So this person and I had an
address in common but not at the same time.
They are no longer allowed to do that (surprisingly) as a previous
credit problem about which I complained implied there was a problem at
my address and I was told the law was changing to prevent simple use of
the same address and credit would be granted (far too late that time
around).
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
tiny.cc/KRWpics
the Omrud
2017-02-02 09:55:33 UTC
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Post by krw
Post by Peter Percival
30 years ago I tried to open an account with Barclays bank and I was
told I couldn't. I asked the teller why and she refused to tell me.
So I wrote to the manager to ask for an explanation, it consisted of a
photocopy of a County Court judgement against the person from whom I
had bought my house about two years previously. So this person and I
had an address in common but not at the same time.
They are no longer allowed to do that (surprisingly) as a previous
credit problem about which I complained implied there was a problem at
my address and I was told the law was changing to prevent simple use of
the same address and credit would be granted (far too late that time
around).
Yep. They're not even allowed to associate two credit records for
people living at the same address at the same time unless they can
demonstrate a financial co-dependence such as a joint mortgage or credit
card. That stops you being affected by the poor credit record of
somebody you just share a house with, or of your adult children.
--
David
krw
2017-02-02 10:18:38 UTC
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Post by the Omrud
or of your adult children
How did you guess?
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
tiny.cc/KRWpics
Penny
2017-02-02 11:45:51 UTC
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On Wed, 1 Feb 2017 23:16:13 +0000, krw <***@whitnet.uk> scrawled in the
dust...
Post by krw
Post by Peter Percival
30 years ago I tried to open an account with Barclays bank and I was
told I couldn't. I asked the teller why and she refused to tell me. So
I wrote to the manager to ask for an explanation, it consisted of a
photocopy of a County Court judgement against the person from whom I had
bought my house about two years previously. So this person and I had an
address in common but not at the same time.
They are no longer allowed to do that (surprisingly) as a previous
credit problem about which I complained implied there was a problem at
my address and I was told the law was changing to prevent simple use of
the same address and credit would be granted (far too late that time
around).
D#1 had this problem as a student living in a house share. When she asked
to see her credit report she was horrified at the information she was given
about other people (including me) which surely should not have been there
because of the data protection act.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
krw
2017-02-02 13:24:05 UTC
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Post by Penny
D#1 had this problem as a student living in a house share. When she asked
to see her credit report she was horrified at the information she was given
about other people (including me) which surely should not have been there
because of the data protection act.
As I have said that should not happen now - change was about 15 years
ago I think.
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
tiny.cc/KRWpics
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2017-02-01 23:55:30 UTC
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In message <o6t39t$kf8$***@gioia.aioe.org>, krw <***@whitnet.uk> writes:
[]
Post by krw
So the computer said no. Now please give me human beings because
someone should have spotted the discrepancy because it was so large.
And does no-one do a check before sending out letters accusing a
customer of having a poor credit record - which is nasty allegation to make.
And of course they have had to compensate me and cover my costs - which
is my reason for not naming them. And in the scheme of things yes it
is not important - but why cause such upset in the first place?
Sadly, these days, the cost of incompetence seems to be calculated for
and taken into account. I'm sure I've told UMRA of my recentish dealings
with Halifax, who eventually said they'd send me a cheque for 50 pounds
(and did) for my trouble - but it was fairly evident that they had
little intention of correcting the error I'd complained about. (It
wasn't a financial error to my disadvantage - just some incompetent
wording on a letter.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

<This space unintentionally left blank>.
krw
2017-02-02 09:23:45 UTC
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Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by krw
So the computer said no. Now please give me human beings because
someone should have spotted the discrepancy because it was so large.
And does no-one do a check before sending out letters accusing a
customer of having a poor credit record - which is nasty allegation to make.
And of course they have had to compensate me and cover my costs -
which is my reason for not naming them. And in the scheme of things
yes it is not important - but why cause such upset in the first place?
Sadly, these days, the cost of incompetence seems to be calculated for
and taken into account. I'm sure I've told UMRA of my recentish dealings
with Halifax, who eventually said they'd send me a cheque for 50 pounds
(and did) for my trouble - but it was fairly evident that they had
little intention of correcting the error I'd complained about. (It
wasn't a financial error to my disadvantage - just some incompetent
wording on a letter.)
Indeed mine was an input error - and the outcome seemed to be that
chucking some cash at me was better than providing a proper service - no
interest in finding who did it and getting them to do the job better, no
interest in writing a letter which explained the problem, no interest in
human review before sending out a standard and misleading letter blaming
a third party rather than their own incompetence.
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
tiny.cc/KRWpics
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