Discussion:
OT Boeing 737 MAX 8
(too old to reply)
agsmith578688@gmail.com Tony Smith Prestbury Glos.
2019-03-12 09:05:31 UTC
Permalink
I am supposed to be flying on one of those on Sunday.
Mike
2019-03-12 09:11:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com Tony Smith Prestbury Glos.
I am supposed to be flying on one of those on Sunday.
I should wing it if I were you!
--
Toodle Pip
Paul Herber
2019-03-12 09:54:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike
Post by ***@gmail.com Tony Smith Prestbury Glos.
I am supposed to be flying on one of those on Sunday.
I should wing it if I were you!
Don't get into a flap about it.
--
Regards, Paul Herber
http://www.paulherber.co.uk/
Mike
2019-03-12 10:11:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Herber
Post by Mike
Post by ***@gmail.com Tony Smith Prestbury Glos.
I am supposed to be flying on one of those on Sunday.
I should wing it if I were you!
Don't get into a flap about it.
Are we elevating this into a punfest? Though I do wonder what ale yer on, I
drink we could ditch it if it turbine to an aerofoiled attempt at humour.
We could propel the idea to the jet-setters or, it could be left as a plane
sailing thread. Don’t worry, I’ll runway now.
--
Toodle Pip
Sid Nuncius
2019-03-12 09:21:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com Tony Smith Prestbury Glos.
I am supposed to be flying on one of those on Sunday.
Don't worry - it won't be a long flight.
--
Sid (Make sure Matron is away when you reply)
Sally Thompson
2019-03-12 09:52:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by ***@gmail.com Tony Smith Prestbury Glos.
I am supposed to be flying on one of those on Sunday.
Don't worry - it won't be a long flight.
About 6 minutes?
--
Sally in Shropshire, UK
Mike
2019-03-12 09:53:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by ***@gmail.com Tony Smith Prestbury Glos.
I am supposed to be flying on one of those on Sunday.
Don't worry - it won't be a long flight.
BTN!
--
Toodle Pip
Peter Withey
2019-03-12 10:04:54 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 12 Mar 2019 09:21:59 +0000, Sid Nuncius
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by ***@gmail.com Tony Smith Prestbury Glos.
I am supposed to be flying on one of those on Sunday.
Don't worry - it won't be a long flight.
I not sure about the protocol for nominating the BTM for a BTN but I
will do it.
--
Pete
Mike
2019-03-12 10:14:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Withey
On Tue, 12 Mar 2019 09:21:59 +0000, Sid Nuncius
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by ***@gmail.com Tony Smith Prestbury Glos.
I am supposed to be flying on one of those on Sunday.
Don't worry - it won't be a long flight.
I not sure about the protocol for nominating the BTM for a BTN but I
will do it.
There is precedence for the ‘president’ already, so I think due diligence
has been observed (grovel-grovel, will that suffice oh BTM?)
--
Toodle Pip
Sid Nuncius
2019-03-12 10:26:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Withey
On Tue, 12 Mar 2019 09:21:59 +0000, Sid Nuncius
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by ***@gmail.com Tony Smith Prestbury Glos.
I am supposed to be flying on one of those on Sunday.
Don't worry - it won't be a long flight.
I not sure about the protocol for nominating the BTM for a BTN but I
will do it.
As there have been two nominations, I feel I must honour the wishes of
umrats and deliver the BTN they have voted for. Accepted.
--
Sid (Make sure Matron is away when you reply)
Peter Withey
2019-03-12 10:39:26 UTC
Permalink
IOn Tue, 12 Mar 2019 10:26:13 +0000, Sid Nuncius
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by Peter Withey
On Tue, 12 Mar 2019 09:21:59 +0000, Sid Nuncius
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by ***@gmail.com Tony Smith Prestbury Glos.
I am supposed to be flying on one of those on Sunday.
Don't worry - it won't be a long flight.
I not sure about the protocol for nominating the BTM for a BTN but I
will do it.
As there have been two nominations, I feel I must honour the wishes of
umrats and deliver the BTN they have voted for. Accepted.
I feel honoured. My first...
--
Pete
Nick Odell
2019-03-12 11:00:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com Tony Smith Prestbury Glos.
I am supposed to be flying on one of those on Sunday.
Look at it from a statistical point of view: the more bad ones that fall
out of the sky before Sunday, the better the odds that yours will be one
of the good ones.

Simon Calder summed it up nicely in the Indie:

"Would you fly on the 737 MAX 8?

Yes. I am guided by the professionals. Aviation is extremely safe, and
the UK and Ireland are top of the league. No captain will fly an
aircraft they regard as unsafe. If he or she is happy to fly, I am happy
to be a passenger.*


Though as I recall, that advice wouldn't have helped the passengers of
Andreas Lubitz a great deal.

Enjoy your trip!

Nick
(who has already checked what aircraft are being used for his trip next
Tuesday. Phew!)
Jim Easterbrook
2019-03-12 16:39:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nick Odell
Post by ***@gmail.com Tony Smith Prestbury Glos.
I am supposed to be flying on one of those on Sunday.
Look at it from a statistical point of view: the more bad ones that fall
out of the sky before Sunday, the better the odds that yours will be one
of the good ones.
"Would you fly on the 737 MAX 8?
Yes. I am guided by the professionals. Aviation is extremely safe, and
the UK and Ireland are top of the league. No captain will fly an
aircraft they regard as unsafe. If he or she is happy to fly, I am happy
to be a passenger.*
I suspect you'd have got a similar answer after the second Comet had
fallen apart from metal fatigue. Pilots aren't always the best judge of
risk.
--
Jim <http://www.jim-easterbrook.me.uk/>
1959/1985? M B+ G+ A L- I- S- P-- CH0(p) Ar++ T+ H0 Q--- Sh0
BrritSki
2019-03-12 13:35:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com Tony Smith Prestbury Glos.
I am supposed to be flying on one of those on Sunday.
See if you can stall them...
steveski
2019-03-12 15:01:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by BrritSki
Post by ***@gmail.com Tony Smith Prestbury Glos.
I am supposed to be flying on one of those on Sunday.
See if you can stall them...
Another BTN?
--
Steveski
Sid Nuncius
2019-03-12 18:43:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by steveski
Post by BrritSki
Post by ***@gmail.com Tony Smith Prestbury Glos.
I am supposed to be flying on one of those on Sunday.
See if you can stall them...
Another BTN?
Not quite, I fear.
--
Sid (Make sure Matron is away when you reply)
LFS
2019-03-12 13:46:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com Tony Smith Prestbury Glos.
I am supposed to be flying on one of those on Sunday.
It appears not, unless you are due to board it in another country.
--
Laura (emulate St George for email)
krw
2019-03-12 15:48:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com Tony Smith Prestbury Glos.
I am supposed to be flying on one of those on Sunday.
I wonder if the airline concerned has any spare planes?
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
Mike
2019-03-12 16:12:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by krw
Post by ***@gmail.com Tony Smith Prestbury Glos.
I am supposed to be flying on one of those on Sunday.
I wonder if the airline concerned has any spare planes?
I know where they might obtain some spare parts just now....
--
Toodle Pip
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2019-03-12 16:20:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike
Post by krw
Post by ***@gmail.com Tony Smith Prestbury Glos.
I am supposed to be flying on one of those on Sunday.
I wonder if the airline concerned has any spare planes?
I know where they might obtain some spare parts just now....
Definite BTN; excellent!

(I don't think they could, actually; there seems to be little left.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Hadrian's Wall has never been a border between Scotland and England. It lies
entirely within England but, when it was built in AD 122 by the Romans as a
defence against the raiding Picts, the future English were still in Germany
and the Scottish were still in Ireland.
- Michael Cullen, Skye, in RT 2014/12/6-12
Sid Nuncius
2019-03-12 18:51:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Mike
Post by krw
Post by ***@gmail.com Tony Smith Prestbury Glos.
I am supposed to be flying on one of those on Sunday.
I wonder if the airline concerned has any spare planes?
I know where they might obtain some spare parts just now....
Definite BTN; excellent!
Definite? *Definite?* How *dare* you pre-empt the judgement of the
BTM, sir? The fact that you are correct in this instance does not
excuse such lèse-majesté.

Accepted, despite this enormity.

<walks off muttering>
Definite, indeed! Impertinent young whippersnapper!
--
Sid (Make sure Matron is away when you reply)
Mike
2019-03-12 19:06:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Mike
Post by krw
Post by ***@gmail.com Tony Smith Prestbury Glos.
I am supposed to be flying on one of those on Sunday.
I wonder if the airline concerned has any spare planes?
I know where they might obtain some spare parts just now....
Definite BTN; excellent!
Definite? *Definite?* How *dare* you pre-empt the judgement of the
BTM, sir? The fact that you are correct in this instance does not
excuse such lèse-majesté.
Accepted, despite this enormity.
<walks off muttering>
Definite, indeed! Impertinent young whippersnapper!
*Blush*
--
Toodle Pip
Jim Easterbrook
2019-03-12 19:54:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Mike
Post by krw
Post by ***@gmail.com Tony Smith Prestbury Glos.
I am supposed to be flying on one of those on Sunday.
I wonder if the airline concerned has any spare planes?
I know where they might obtain some spare parts just now....
Definite BTN; excellent!
Definite? *Definite?* How *dare* you pre-empt the judgement of the
BTM, sir? The fact that you are correct in this instance does not
excuse such lèse-majesté.
Surely John was only saying his nomination was definitely proposed? Your
wise acceptance of the nomination was in no way being assumed. This
overreaction is uncharacteristic of the BTM. Has Will Self been casting
aspersions on your manhood?
--
Jim <http://www.jim-easterbrook.me.uk/>
1959/1985? M B+ G+ A L- I- S- P-- CH0(p) Ar++ T+ H0 Q--- Sh0
Sid Nuncius
2019-03-13 05:57:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Easterbrook
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Mike
Post by krw
Post by ***@gmail.com Tony Smith Prestbury Glos.
I am supposed to be flying on one of those on Sunday.
I wonder if the airline concerned has any spare planes?
I know where they might obtain some spare parts just now....
Definite BTN; excellent!
Definite? *Definite?* How *dare* you pre-empt the judgement of the
BTM, sir? The fact that you are correct in this instance does not
excuse such lèse-majesté.
Surely John was only saying his nomination was definitely proposed? Your
wise acceptance of the nomination was in no way being assumed. This
overreaction is uncharacteristic of the BTM. Has Will Self been casting
aspersions on your manhood?
I am prepared to accept your form of words and to consider the matter
closed.

How do you know the content of my private conversations with Will Self?
--
Sid (Make sure Matron is away when you reply)
Nick Odell
2019-03-13 08:05:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by Jim Easterbrook
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Mike
Post by krw
Post by ***@gmail.com Tony Smith Prestbury Glos.
I am supposed to be flying on one of those on Sunday.
I wonder if the airline concerned has any spare planes?
I know where they might obtain some spare parts just now....
Definite BTN; excellent!
Definite?  *Definite?*  How *dare* you pre-empt the judgement of the
BTM, sir?  The fact that you are correct in this instance does not
excuse such lèse-majesté.
Surely John was only saying his nomination was definitely proposed? Your
wise acceptance of the nomination was in no way being assumed. This
overreaction is uncharacteristic of the BTM. Has Will Self been casting
aspersions on your manhood?
I am prepared to accept your form of words and to consider the matter
closed.
How do you know the content of my private conversations with Will Self?
That tone of voice sounds suspiciously familiar. In another guise you're
not currently su....? No, no, no, forget I said anything.

Nick
Mike
2019-03-13 08:17:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Easterbrook
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Mike
Post by krw
Post by ***@gmail.com Tony Smith Prestbury Glos.
I am supposed to be flying on one of those on Sunday.
I wonder if the airline concerned has any spare planes?
I know where they might obtain some spare parts just now....
Definite BTN; excellent!
Definite? *Definite?* How *dare* you pre-empt the judgement of the
BTM, sir? The fact that you are correct in this instance does not
excuse such lèse-majesté.
Surely John was only saying his nomination was definitely proposed? Your
wise acceptance of the nomination was in no way being assumed. This
overreaction is uncharacteristic of the BTM. Has Will Self been casting
aspersions on your manhood?
Would that be Self Abuse?
--
Toodle Pip
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2019-03-13 09:36:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike
Post by Jim Easterbrook
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Mike
Post by krw
Post by ***@gmail.com Tony Smith Prestbury Glos.
I am supposed to be flying on one of those on Sunday.
I wonder if the airline concerned has any spare planes?
I know where they might obtain some spare parts just now....
Definite BTN; excellent!
Definite? *Definite?* How *dare* you pre-empt the judgement of the
BTM, sir? The fact that you are correct in this instance does not
excuse such lèse-majesté.
Surely John was only saying his nomination was definitely proposed? Your
wise acceptance of the nomination was in no way being assumed. This
That was indeed the case. I thought Mike's suggestion about spare parts
was a definite candidate for a _nomination_. I certainly wouldn't
presume acceptance! The BTM's operational parameters I am not worthy to
program, etc. ...
Post by Mike
Post by Jim Easterbrook
overreaction is uncharacteristic of the BTM. Has Will Self been casting
aspersions on your manhood?
Would that be Self Abuse?
<GROAN>! Excellent.

JPG
---


Fair petitions? See 255soft.uk; #fairpetitions @jpeg_G6;
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/232770
--
4-way STV referendum: no deal, Barnier deal (NI stays), May deal, or remain?
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Veni, Vidi, Vera (I came, I saw, we'll meet again) - Mik from S+AS Limited
(***@saslimited.demon.co.uk), 1998
Sam Plusnet
2019-03-13 19:00:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Mike
Would that be Self Abuse?
<GROAN>! Excellent.
That's a short-sighted approach John.
--
Sam Plusnet
Nick Odell
2019-03-12 17:20:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com Tony Smith Prestbury Glos.
I am supposed to be flying on one of those on Sunday.
Don't worry, Tony. You won't be.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-47536502

Nick
Clive Arthur
2019-03-13 00:00:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com Tony Smith Prestbury Glos.
I am supposed to be flying on one of those on Sunday.
Boeing, Boeing, boing!

Cheers
--
Clive
agsmith578688@gmail.com Tony Smith Prestbury Glos.
2019-03-18 02:10:42 UTC
Permalink
Home safely.
Mike
2019-03-18 08:18:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com Tony Smith Prestbury Glos.
Home safely.
Oh good, no more sinking feelings then.
--
Toodle Pip
Chris McMillan
2019-03-18 19:21:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com Tony Smith Prestbury Glos.
Home safely.
Good!

Sincerely Chris
Mike
2019-03-19 11:16:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris McMillan
Post by ***@gmail.com Tony Smith Prestbury Glos.
Home safely.
Good!
Sincerely Chris
So it seems there is no operational or structural problems with this
aircraft so they are modifying the software on the anti-stall system for
what reason?
--
Toodle Pip
krw
2019-03-19 11:52:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike
Post by Chris McMillan
Post by ***@gmail.com Tony Smith Prestbury Glos.
Home safely.
Good!
Sincerely Chris
So it seems there is no operational or structural problems with this
aircraft so they are modifying the software on the anti-stall system for
what reason?
When climbing away from take off the nose points up in the air. The
anti-stall system thinks the driver is trying to hard and the anti-stall
software kicks in and the driver either does not know or does not
understand how to over-ride the software. So the plane does its
auto-anti-stall procedure and crashes.

Seems like the software is a little too keen on preventing a stall.
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
Dumrat
2019-03-19 13:40:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike
Post by Chris McMillan
Post by ***@gmail.com Tony Smith Prestbury Glos.
Home safely.
Good!
Sincerely Chris
So it seems there is no operational or structural problems with this
aircraft so they are modifying the software on the anti-stall system for
what reason?
When climbing away from take off the nose points up in the air.  The anti-stall system
thinks the driver is trying to hard and the anti-stall software kicks in and the driver
either does not know or does not understand how to over-ride the software.  So the plane
does its auto-anti-stall procedure and crashes.
Seems like the software is a little too keen on preventing a stall.
Husbad informs me he understands the problem is not simply with the software, but with the
relevant sensors on the plane. The pilot can try to over-ride the software manually but
the faulty sensors will insist and continue to give the wrong info to the software, which
then overrides the pilot again automatically despite the pilot doing everything he can to
adjust the anti-stall mechanism. Hence crash. Not pilot error.
Husbad is not talking through his hat as he trained as an aeronautical engineer and is
still in the aircraft business, though not much hands on any more. Were these planes not
already grounded, husbad would refuse to fly on one if he were due to travel on a route
which used them. This is, I think, the first time I have heard the husbad say this in
relation to a specific aircraft model (as opposed to an airline whose maintenance might
not be the best on the aircraft they use). He says as far as he can gather, the Air
Ethiopia pilot was experienced and properly trained on the aircraft and Air Ethiopia in
general are a good airline.
--
Salaam Alaykum,
Anne, Exceptionally Traditionally-built Dumrat
Fenny
2019-03-19 19:44:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dumrat
Husbad informs me he understands the problem is not simply with the software, but with the
relevant sensors on the plane. The pilot can try to over-ride the software manually but
the faulty sensors will insist and continue to give the wrong info to the software, which
then overrides the pilot again automatically despite the pilot doing everything he can to
adjust the anti-stall mechanism. Hence crash. Not pilot error.
If I were a pilot, I would refuse to fly anything that thinks it can
override actual human decisions. It reminds me of the film
"Wargames", when Matthew Broderick had to play noughts & crosses with
the Pentagon computer to stop it from trying to work out the nuclear
launch codes because they did away with the pesky humans in the chain.

And the old jokes about the MS Paperclip help assistant.
--
Fenny
Mike
2019-03-19 20:57:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fenny
Post by Dumrat
Husbad informs me he understands the problem is not simply with the
software, but with the
relevant sensors on the plane. The pilot can
try to over-ride the software manually but
the faulty sensors will insist and continue to give the wrong info to the software, which
then overrides the pilot again automatically despite the pilot doing everything he can to
adjust the anti-stall mechanism. Hence crash. Not pilot error.
If I were a pilot, I would refuse to fly anything that thinks it can
override actual human decisions. It reminds me of the film
"Wargames", when Matthew Broderick had to play noughts & crosses with
the Pentagon computer to stop it from trying to work out the nuclear
launch codes because they did away with the pesky humans in the chain.
And the old jokes about the MS Paperclip help assistant.
I can’t do that Dave...
--
Toodle Pip
Fenny
2019-03-20 20:39:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fenny
Post by Dumrat
Husbad informs me he understands the problem is not simply with the
software, but with the
relevant sensors on the plane. The pilot can
try to over-ride the software manually but
the faulty sensors will insist and continue to give the wrong info to the software, which
then overrides the pilot again automatically despite the pilot doing everything he can to
adjust the anti-stall mechanism. Hence crash. Not pilot error.
If I were a pilot, I would refuse to fly anything that thinks it can
override actual human decisions. It reminds me of the film
"Wargames", when Matthew Broderick had to play noughts & crosses with
the Pentagon computer to stop it from trying to work out the nuclear
launch codes because they did away with the pesky humans in the chain.
And the old jokes about the MS Paperclip help assistant.
I can’t do that Dave...
I made reference to that in the office last week and everyone just
stared at me. I wonder about young people [1] these days.

[1] My boss is 6 years younger than me, the other two are respectively
10 years older and 16 years younger than me.
--
Fenny
Paul Herber
2019-03-20 21:03:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fenny
Post by Fenny
Post by Dumrat
Husbad informs me he understands the problem is not simply with the
software, but with the
relevant sensors on the plane. The pilot can
try to over-ride the software manually but
the faulty sensors will insist and continue to give the wrong info to the software, which
then overrides the pilot again automatically despite the pilot doing everything he can to
adjust the anti-stall mechanism. Hence crash. Not pilot error.
If I were a pilot, I would refuse to fly anything that thinks it can
override actual human decisions. It reminds me of the film
"Wargames", when Matthew Broderick had to play noughts & crosses with
the Pentagon computer to stop it from trying to work out the nuclear
launch codes because they did away with the pesky humans in the chain.
And the old jokes about the MS Paperclip help assistant.
I can’t do that Dave...
I made reference to that in the office last week and everyone just
stared at me. I wonder about young people [1] these days.
[1] My boss is 6 years younger than me,
Does he know how important your mission is?
--
Regards, Paul Herber
http://www.paulherber.co.uk/
steveski
2019-03-20 22:53:35 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 20 Mar 2019 20:39:30 +0000, Fenny
Post by Fenny
Post by Fenny
Post by Dumrat
Husbad informs me he understands the problem is not simply with the
software, but with the relevant sensors on the plane. The pilot can
try to over-ride the software manually but the faulty sensors will
insist and continue to give the wrong info to the software, which
then overrides the pilot again automatically despite the pilot doing
everything he can to adjust the anti-stall mechanism. Hence crash.
Not pilot error.
If I were a pilot, I would refuse to fly anything that thinks it can
override actual human decisions. It reminds me of the film
"Wargames", when Matthew Broderick had to play noughts & crosses with
the Pentagon computer to stop it from trying to work out the nuclear
launch codes because they did away with the pesky humans in the chain.
And the old jokes about the MS Paperclip help assistant.
I can’t do that Dave...
I made reference to that in the office last week and everyone just
stared at me. I wonder about young people [1] these days.
[1] My boss is 6 years younger than me,
Does he know how important your mission is?
Is he/she really enthusiastic about it?
--
Steveski
Fred
2019-03-20 16:32:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fenny
It reminds me of the film
"Wargames", when Matthew Broderick had to play noughts & crosses with
the Pentagon computer to stop it from trying to work out the nuclear
launch codes because they did away with the pesky humans in the chain.
Fenny
The end result of 'automation' is the plane that has in the cockpit, an autopilot, a human pilot and a dog.
"The pilot is there to intervene if the autopilot goes wrong."
"What's the dog for?"
"To attack the pilot if he tries to fly the plane."

Fred, about to fly tomorrow.
Mike
2019-03-20 16:42:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fred
Post by Fenny
It reminds me of the film
"Wargames", when Matthew Broderick had to play noughts & crosses with
the Pentagon computer to stop it from trying to work out the nuclear
launch codes because they did away with the pesky humans in the chain.
Fenny
The end result of 'automation' is the plane that has in the cockpit, an
autopilot, a human pilot and a dog.
"The pilot is there to intervene if the autopilot goes wrong."
"What's the dog for?"
"To attack the pilot if he tries to fly the plane."
Fred, about to fly tomorrow.
Similarly:
ISS is orbiting the earth when capsule docks; 2 occupants of capsule enter
the ISS, each carrying their mission instructions in a large folder; the
occupant carrying the thickest folder is a monkey and is detailed to carry
out numerous vital projects and experiments. The other occupant, a veteran
of many space flights, a 32 year old man opens his folder containing just
the one instruction: ‘Feed the Monkey’.
--
Toodle Pip
Chris McMillan
2019-03-20 19:03:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fred
Post by Fenny
It reminds me of the film
"Wargames", when Matthew Broderick had to play noughts & crosses with
the Pentagon computer to stop it from trying to work out the nuclear
launch codes because they did away with the pesky humans in the chain.
Fenny
The end result of 'automation' is the plane that has in the cockpit, an
autopilot, a human pilot and a dog.
"The pilot is there to intervene if the autopilot goes wrong."
"What's the dog for?"
"To attack the pilot if he tries to fly the plane."
Fred, about to fly tomorrow.
Fly safely, Fred

Sincerely Chris
Mike
2019-03-19 13:58:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by krw
Post by Mike
Post by Chris McMillan
Post by ***@gmail.com Tony Smith Prestbury Glos.
Home safely.
Good!
Sincerely Chris
So it seems there is no operational or structural problems with this
aircraft so they are modifying the software on the anti-stall system for
what reason?
When climbing away from take off the nose points up in the air. The
anti-stall system thinks the driver is trying to hard and the anti-stall
software kicks in and the driver either does not know or does not
understand how to over-ride the software. So the plane does its
auto-anti-stall procedure and crashes.
Seems like the software is a little too keen on preventing a stall.
Yes, I had heard that but, Boing had claimed there was no fault - so were
this the case, why did they need to ‘fix it’ I wonder? Did they admit their
software might have been at fault - or were they hiding behind ‘Pilot
Error’?
--
Toodle Pip
Sam Plusnet
2019-03-19 21:15:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike
Post by krw
Post by Mike
Post by Chris McMillan
Post by ***@gmail.com Tony Smith Prestbury Glos.
Home safely.
Good!
Sincerely Chris
So it seems there is no operational or structural problems with this
aircraft so they are modifying the software on the anti-stall system for
what reason?
When climbing away from take off the nose points up in the air. The
anti-stall system thinks the driver is trying to hard and the anti-stall
software kicks in and the driver either does not know or does not
understand how to over-ride the software. So the plane does its
auto-anti-stall procedure and crashes.
Seems like the software is a little too keen on preventing a stall.
Yes, I had heard that but, Boing had claimed there was no fault - so were
this the case, why did they need to ‘fix it’ I wonder? Did they admit their
software might have been at fault - or were they hiding behind ‘Pilot
Error’?
There was a 'suggestion' that Boeing was working on the necessary
changes, and were in discussion with the FAA (Federal Aviation
Administration) on the matter.
Discussions were then halted whilst the US government shut down over
Border Wall funding.
--
Sam Plusnet
Dumrat
2019-03-20 11:47:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike
Yes, I had heard that but, Boing had claimed there was no fault - so were
this the case, why did they need to ‘fix it’ I wonder? Did they admit their
software might have been at fault - or were they hiding behind ‘Pilot
Error’?
There was a 'suggestion' that Boeing was working on the necessary changes, and were in
discussion with the FAA (Federal Aviation Administration) on the matter.
Discussions were then halted whilst the US government shut down over Border Wall funding.
There is another issue in that in 2015, the FAA, instead of doing the safety checks before
the modifications to the aircraft were certified to allow this model to go into service
themselves, allowed Boeing to do the analysis instead. The service analysis Boeing
delivered to the FAA in order for the aircraft to be certified was flawed. Allegedly.

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/failed-certification-faa-missed-safety-issues-in-the-737-max-system-implicated-in-the-lion-air-crash/
--
Salaam Alaykum,
Anne, Exceptionally Traditionally-built Dumrat
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