Discussion:
So, farewell then...
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Sid Nuncius
2020-12-26 06:21:40 UTC
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...John Edrich.

When my love of cricket first truly flowered
You and Geoffrey Boycott were the England openers
And somewhere in my soul you still are.

"...And a ghostly batsman plays to the bowling of a ghost,
And I look through my tears on a soundless-clapping host
As the run-stealers flicker to and fro,
To and fro: -
O my Edrich and my Boycott long ago!"[1]

Go well, John.


[1]With apologies to Francis Thompson.
--
Sid
(Make sure Matron is away when you reply)
BrritSki
2020-12-26 09:02:02 UTC
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Post by Sid Nuncius
...John Edrich.
When my love of cricket first truly flowered
You and Geoffrey Boycott were the England openers
And somewhere in my soul you still are.
"...And a ghostly batsman plays to the bowling of a ghost,
And I look through my tears on a soundless-clapping host
As the run-stealers flicker to and fro,
To and fro: -
O my Edrich and my Boycott long ago!"[1]
Go well, John.
[1]With apologies to Francis Thompson.
BUMRA !
Peter
2020-12-26 09:08:36 UTC
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Post by Sid Nuncius
...John Edrich.
When my love of cricket first truly flowered
You and Geoffrey Boycott were the England openers
And somewhere in my soul you still are.
"...And a ghostly batsman plays to the bowling of a ghost,
And I look through my tears on a soundless-clapping host
As the run-stealers flicker to and fro,
To and fro: -
O my Edrich and my Boycott long ago!"[1]
Go well, John.
Did you ever meet him, or any of his cricketing cousins?
Post by Sid Nuncius
[1]With apologies to Francis Thompson.
--
When, once, reference was made to a statesman almost universally
recognized as one of the villains of this century, in order to
induce him to a negative judgment, he replied: "My situation is
so different from his, that it is not for me to pass judgment".
Ernst Specker on Paul Bernays
Sid Nuncius
2020-12-26 09:34:44 UTC
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Post by Peter
Post by Sid Nuncius
...John Edrich.
When my love of cricket first truly flowered
You and Geoffrey Boycott were the England openers
And somewhere in my soul you still are.
"...And a ghostly batsman plays to the bowling of a ghost,
And I look through my tears on a soundless-clapping host
As the run-stealers flicker to and fro,
To and fro: -
O my Edrich and my Boycott long ago!"[1]
Go well, John.
Did you ever meet him, or any of his cricketing cousins?
No. I have met very few famous cricketers[1]. I just enjoyed watching
him bat and his solid presence in the field - usually at gully, IIRC.

[1]Deryck Murray and Dereks Randall and Pringle to exchange words with.
Brian Luckhurst once spoke to me in the car park at Trent Bridge
before a Test Match to ask me if I had seen Raymond Illingworth (I
hadn't). I think that's it.
--
Sid
(Make sure Matron is away when you reply)
Steve Hague
2020-12-26 09:51:06 UTC
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Post by Peter
Post by Sid Nuncius
...John Edrich.
When my love of cricket first truly flowered
You and Geoffrey Boycott were the England openers
And somewhere in my soul you still are.
"...And a ghostly batsman plays to the bowling of a ghost,
And I look through my tears on a soundless-clapping host
As the run-stealers flicker to and fro,
To and fro: -
O my Edrich and my Boycott long ago!"[1]
Go well, John.
Did you ever meet him, or any of his cricketing cousins?
No.  I have met very few famous cricketers[1].  I just enjoyed watching
him bat and his solid presence in the field - usually at gully, IIRC.
[1]Deryck Murray and Dereks Randall and Pringle to exchange words with.
 Brian Luckhurst once spoke to me in the car park at Trent Bridge
before a Test Match to ask me if I had seen Raymond Illingworth (I
hadn't).  I think that's it.
Just Geoffry Boycott for me. I might get the opportunity to speak to
Chris Old. He works at a nearby B&Q. When Boycs first played for
England, he opened the batting with Fred Titmus, who was fortunately
superceded by Bob Barber. Boycott and Edrich didn't open together very
often, Edrich prefered to be 4 or 5.
Steve
Vicky Ayech
2020-12-26 10:21:16 UTC
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On Sat, 26 Dec 2020 09:34:44 +0000, Sid Nuncius
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by Peter
Post by Sid Nuncius
...John Edrich.
When my love of cricket first truly flowered
You and Geoffrey Boycott were the England openers
And somewhere in my soul you still are.
"...And a ghostly batsman plays to the bowling of a ghost,
And I look through my tears on a soundless-clapping host
As the run-stealers flicker to and fro,
To and fro: -
O my Edrich and my Boycott long ago!"[1]
Go well, John.
Did you ever meet him, or any of his cricketing cousins?
No. I have met very few famous cricketers[1]. I just enjoyed watching
him bat and his solid presence in the field - usually at gully, IIRC.
[1]Deryck Murray and Dereks Randall and Pringle to exchange words with.
Brian Luckhurst once spoke to me in the car park at Trent Bridge
before a Test Match to ask me if I had seen Raymond Illingworth (I
hadn't). I think that's it.
I've never met any or been to Lords but will stick with
those little pals of mine
As a great win
And then that cricketing hero
Lord Peter Wimsey.
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2020-12-26 18:44:44 UTC
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On Sat, 26 Dec 2020 at 10:21:16, Vicky Ayech <***@gmail.com>
wrote (my responses usually follow points raised):
[]
Post by Vicky Ayech
I've never met any or been to Lords but will stick with
those little pals of mine
As a great win
And then that cricketing hero
Lord Peter Wimsey.
Is that a craiku?

I've never knowingly met any famous cricketers, but did spend most of a
summer a stone's throw from Lords, on a building site helping install
parts of London's 400kV ring main. About 1982 I think. I can't remember
if I heard any applause.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

You can be tough without being rude - Nick Clegg, 2014 July
Nick Odell
2020-12-26 14:24:12 UTC
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On Sat, 26 Dec 2020 09:34:44 +0000, Sid Nuncius
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by Peter
Post by Sid Nuncius
...John Edrich.
When my love of cricket first truly flowered
You and Geoffrey Boycott were the England openers
And somewhere in my soul you still are.
"...And a ghostly batsman plays to the bowling of a ghost,
And I look through my tears on a soundless-clapping host
As the run-stealers flicker to and fro,
To and fro: -
O my Edrich and my Boycott long ago!"[1]
Go well, John.
Did you ever meet him, or any of his cricketing cousins?
No. I have met very few famous cricketers[1]. I just enjoyed watching
him bat and his solid presence in the field - usually at gully, IIRC.
[1]Deryck Murray and Dereks Randall and Pringle to exchange words with.
Brian Luckhurst once spoke to me in the car park at Trent Bridge
before a Test Match to ask me if I had seen Raymond Illingworth (I
hadn't). I think that's it.
When I were but a kneehigh, we often used to go and watch The Lords'
Taverners play at Sunbury Park, near the river in Sunbury on Thames.

The whole point of the exercise was that all the players would chat
and mingle and encourage people to donate to the cause and I know they
had some first class cricketers as "ringers" in the team - my dad told
me so - and I know I must have met several. Unfortunately the only
ones I remember meeting were the likes of Eric Sykes and Cardew
Robinson and AFAIK neither of them made any England 1st XI.

Nick
Nick Odell
2020-12-26 19:34:24 UTC
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On Sat, 26 Dec 2020 14:24:12 +0000, Nick Odell
Post by Vicky Ayech
On Sat, 26 Dec 2020 09:34:44 +0000, Sid Nuncius
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by Peter
Post by Sid Nuncius
...John Edrich.
When my love of cricket first truly flowered
You and Geoffrey Boycott were the England openers
And somewhere in my soul you still are.
"...And a ghostly batsman plays to the bowling of a ghost,
And I look through my tears on a soundless-clapping host
As the run-stealers flicker to and fro,
To and fro: -
O my Edrich and my Boycott long ago!"[1]
Go well, John.
Did you ever meet him, or any of his cricketing cousins?
No. I have met very few famous cricketers[1]. I just enjoyed watching
him bat and his solid presence in the field - usually at gully, IIRC.
[1]Deryck Murray and Dereks Randall and Pringle to exchange words with.
Brian Luckhurst once spoke to me in the car park at Trent Bridge
before a Test Match to ask me if I had seen Raymond Illingworth (I
hadn't). I think that's it.
When I were but a kneehigh, we often used to go and watch The Lords'
Taverners play at Sunbury Park, near the river in Sunbury on Thames.
The whole point of the exercise was that all the players would chat
and mingle and encourage people to donate to the cause and I know they
had some first class cricketers as "ringers" in the team - my dad told
me so - and I know I must have met several. Unfortunately the only
ones I remember meeting were the likes of Eric Sykes and Cardew
Robinson and AFAIK neither of them made any England 1st XI.
I wouldn't say that it's all coming back to me now but I recall David
Sheppard and the Bedser twins. I think I knew why David Sheppard was
famous but my dad had to explain about Alec Bedser.

Nick
Sam Plusnet
2020-12-26 20:17:57 UTC
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Post by Nick Odell
Unfortunately the only
ones I remember meeting were the likes of Eric Sykes and Cardew
Robinson
The Cad!

(How old does one have to be in order to remember "Cardew the Cad of the
school"?)
--
Sam Plusnet
Nick Odell
2020-12-26 20:56:43 UTC
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Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Nick Odell
Unfortunately the only
ones I remember meeting were the likes of Eric Sykes and Cardew
Robinson
The Cad!
(How old does one have to be in order to remember "Cardew the Cad of the
school"?)
At least as old as you and me, I fear.

Nick
krw
2020-12-26 22:43:10 UTC
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Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Nick Odell
Unfortunately the only
ones I remember meeting were the likes of Eric Sykes and Cardew
Robinson
The Cad!
(How old does one have to be in order to remember "Cardew the Cad of the
school"?)
Older than me.
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
Peter
2020-12-27 16:30:56 UTC
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Post by Sid Nuncius
...John Edrich.
When my love of cricket first truly flowered
You and Geoffrey Boycott were the England openers
And somewhere in my soul you still are.
"...And a ghostly batsman plays to the bowling of a ghost,
And I look through my tears on a soundless-clapping host
As the run-stealers flicker to and fro,
To and fro: -
O my Edrich and my Boycott long ago!"[1]
Go well, John.
[1]With apologies to Francis Thompson.
Also among the recently dead is George Blake. And among my heroes are
the so called "atom spies" - if the Russians hadn't acquired nuclear
weapons the USA would have been even more of a bully than it has been.
Blake (not one of the atom spies) got a 42 year prison sentence which
was utterly preposterous and ought to earn him sympathy.
--
When, once, reference was made to a statesman almost universally
recognized as one of the villains of this century, in order to
induce him to a negative judgment, he replied: "My situation is
so different from his, that it is not for me to pass judgment".
Ernst Specker on Paul Bernays
Sam Plusnet
2020-12-27 20:01:10 UTC
Reply
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Post by Sid Nuncius
...John Edrich.
When my love of cricket first truly flowered
You and Geoffrey Boycott were the England openers
And somewhere in my soul you still are.
"...And a ghostly batsman plays to the bowling of a ghost,
And I look through my tears on a soundless-clapping host
As the run-stealers flicker to and fro,
To and fro: -
O my Edrich and my Boycott long ago!"[1]
Go well, John.
[1]With apologies to Francis Thompson.
Also among the recently dead is George Blake.  And among my heroes are
the so called "atom spies" - if the Russians hadn't acquired nuclear
Blake (not one of the atom spies) got a 42 year prison sentence which
was utterly preposterous and ought to earn him sympathy.
As he 'betrayed'[1] quite a few spies who were executed, perhaps he
should have received that same sentence?
What do you think would have been a 'reasonable' sentence?

[1] I can, in the abstract, accept that the definition of betrayal
depends upon where you stand.
--
Sam Plusnet
Peter
2020-12-27 21:54:07 UTC
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Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Sid Nuncius
...John Edrich.
When my love of cricket first truly flowered
You and Geoffrey Boycott were the England openers
And somewhere in my soul you still are.
"...And a ghostly batsman plays to the bowling of a ghost,
And I look through my tears on a soundless-clapping host
As the run-stealers flicker to and fro,
To and fro: -
O my Edrich and my Boycott long ago!"[1]
Go well, John.
[1]With apologies to Francis Thompson.
Also among the recently dead is George Blake.  And among my heroes are
the so called "atom spies" - if the Russians hadn't acquired nuclear
Blake (not one of the atom spies) got a 42 year prison sentence which
was utterly preposterous and ought to earn him sympathy.
As he 'betrayed'[1] quite a few spies who were executed, perhaps he
should have received that same sentence?
What do you think would have been a 'reasonable' sentence?
Two years commuted for good behaviour if, indeed, he did behave well.
Post by Sam Plusnet
[1] I can, in the abstract, accept that the definition of betrayal
depends upon where you stand.
Yes. The idea seems to be that the Ruskies (now, the Soviets then) are
bad, therefore what they do is bad; rather than - they do bad therefore
they are bad.
--
When, once, reference was made to a statesman almost universally
recognized as one of the villains of this century, in order to
induce him to a negative judgment, he replied: "My situation is
so different from his, that it is not for me to pass judgment".
Ernst Specker on Paul Bernays
krw
2020-12-27 22:41:30 UTC
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Post by Peter
Two years commuted for good behaviour if, indeed, he did behave well.
I am not sure that actions leading to the execution of individuals
should have a lesser sentence than manslaughter of a policeman for which
I believe the tariff is 16 years.
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
Sam Plusnet
2020-12-28 19:19:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter
Post by Sam Plusnet
As he 'betrayed'[1] quite a few spies who were executed, perhaps he
should have received that same sentence?
What do you think would have been a 'reasonable' sentence?
Two years commuted for good behaviour if, indeed, he did behave well.
Two years for each person who died as a direct result of his actions?
Or were you suggesting a job lot, cheaper by the dozen sort of thing?
--
Sam Plusnet
Jenny M Benson
2020-12-28 10:07:38 UTC
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Post by Peter
Also among the recently dead is George Blake.
The announcement by the Beeb of his death prompted unresolved questions
between my sister and I which I said I would put to Umra for comment.

The announcer began the description of GB by saying that he was a Jew.
Why? Given that he was a Communist, this probably didn't refer to his
religious persuasion, but I don't think a person's religious persuasion
would be mentioned in an obituary unless it was relevant to their career
or life story. It presumably then referred to his ethnic heritage. But
why are Jewish people so often singled out for mention of their heritage
when it is not relevant to the context? Is it all part of the
so-prevalent anti-Semitism which I have never understood. (I mean I
have never understood WHY there is so much anti-Semitism.) GB was
apparently born in the Netherlands but described as a "British spy" -
which could have meant "spied for the British" or "of British citizenship."

I know we have Umrats of Jewish heritage. Would you not object if
someone said "X, who is Jewish, posted a funny joke on Umra to-day"
rather than just "X posted a funny joke ..."?
--
Jenny M Benson
Vicky Ayech
2020-12-28 11:11:49 UTC
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On Mon, 28 Dec 2020 10:07:38 +0000, Jenny M Benson
Post by Jenny M Benson
Post by Peter
Also among the recently dead is George Blake.
The announcement by the Beeb of his death prompted unresolved questions
between my sister and I which I said I would put to Umra for comment.
The announcer began the description of GB by saying that he was a Jew.
Why? Given that he was a Communist, this probably didn't refer to his
religious persuasion, but I don't think a person's religious persuasion
would be mentioned in an obituary unless it was relevant to their career
or life story. It presumably then referred to his ethnic heritage. But
why are Jewish people so often singled out for mention of their heritage
when it is not relevant to the context? Is it all part of the
so-prevalent anti-Semitism which I have never understood. (I mean I
have never understood WHY there is so much anti-Semitism.) GB was
apparently born in the Netherlands but described as a "British spy" -
which could have meant "spied for the British" or "of British citizenship."
I know we have Umrats of Jewish heritage. Would you not object if
someone said "X, who is Jewish, posted a funny joke on Umra to-day"
rather than just "X posted a funny joke ..."?
All good points, Jenny. I'm Jewish and do sometimes find reports sound
antisemitic.
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2020-12-28 13:42:14 UTC
Reply
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Post by Vicky Ayech
On Mon, 28 Dec 2020 10:07:38 +0000, Jenny M Benson
Post by Jenny M Benson
Post by Peter
Also among the recently dead is George Blake.
The announcement by the Beeb of his death prompted unresolved questions
between my sister and I which I said I would put to Umra for comment.
The announcer began the description of GB by saying that he was a Jew.
Why? Given that he was a Communist, this probably didn't refer to his
religious persuasion, but I don't think a person's religious persuasion
would be mentioned in an obituary unless it was relevant to their career
or life story. It presumably then referred to his ethnic heritage. But
why are Jewish people so often singled out for mention of their heritage
when it is not relevant to the context? Is it all part of the
so-prevalent anti-Semitism which I have never understood. (I mean I
have never understood WHY there is so much anti-Semitism.) GB was
[]
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Jenny M Benson
I know we have Umrats of Jewish heritage. Would you not object if
someone said "X, who is Jewish, posted a funny joke on Umra to-day"
rather than just "X posted a funny joke ..."?
All good points, Jenny. I'm Jewish and do sometimes find reports sound
antisemitic.
As a non-Jew (though with connections), but a word person, I rather
dislike the semit- side: I've never heard anyone refer to Semites, or
Semitism except when preceded by anti-; therefore, it seems to me it's a
way of hiding things by putting it at one level of remove. Even if
unconsciously.

I wish people would just say anti-Jew(ishness). If that makes them
uncomfortable, tough: that's what it is. Hiding it behind another,
intellectual, term, is - even if unintentionally - being euphemistic.

(Sorry if this is sour at this nominally-happy time.)

I can't think of another example of where there's the same level of
indirection. Moslem/Islam maybe. Catholic/Popery is the other way round.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Never. For me, there has to be a meaning. There's not much meaning in eating
bugs. - Darcey Bussell (on whether she'd appear on /I'm a Celebrity/), in RT
2015/11/28-12/4
Penny
2021-01-02 21:22:07 UTC
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On Mon, 28 Dec 2020 13:42:14 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
As a non-Jew (though with connections), but a word person, I rather
dislike the semit- side: I've never heard anyone refer to Semites, or
Semitism except when preceded by anti-;
As another word person, I understand the term originally referred to people
who spoke semitic languages, which includes, among others, Jews, Arabs and
Maltese.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Nick Odell
2020-12-28 13:49:22 UTC
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Permalink
On Mon, 28 Dec 2020 10:07:38 +0000, Jenny M Benson
Post by Jenny M Benson
Post by Peter
Also among the recently dead is George Blake.
The announcement by the Beeb of his death prompted unresolved questions
between my sister and I which I said I would put to Umra for comment.
The announcer began the description of GB by saying that he was a Jew.
Why? Given that he was a Communist, this probably didn't refer to his
religious persuasion, but I don't think a person's religious persuasion
would be mentioned in an obituary unless it was relevant to their career
or life story. It presumably then referred to his ethnic heritage. But
why are Jewish people so often singled out for mention of their heritage
when it is not relevant to the context? Is it all part of the
so-prevalent anti-Semitism which I have never understood. (I mean I
have never understood WHY there is so much anti-Semitism.) GB was
apparently born in the Netherlands but described as a "British spy" -
which could have meant "spied for the British" or "of British citizenship."
I know we have Umrats of Jewish heritage. Would you not object if
someone said "X, who is Jewish, posted a funny joke on Umra to-day"
rather than just "X posted a funny joke ..."?
I didn't hear the broadcast to which you refer and would have been
quite taken aback if the announcer had used the word Jew on its own.

As The New York Times put it: "He was born George Behar in Rotterdam
on Nov. 11, 1922. His mother was a Dutch Protestant; his father,
Albert, was a Spanish Jew born in Turkey who fought the Ottoman Empire
in World War I and was wounded, cited for gallantry and given British
citizenship."

The mention of his mixture of heritages in this and many other
obituaries was to explain why Blake said that he never identified with
any of his backgrounds and didn't consider himself a traitor because
he didn't consider himself British. Whether or not you agree with
Blake's stance, I think that unraveling his heritage and his history
in the Netherlands and elsewhere goes some way to explaining how he
arrived at his philosophical position.

Nick
Sam Plusnet
2020-12-28 19:17:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Vicky Ayech
On Mon, 28 Dec 2020 10:07:38 +0000, Jenny M Benson
Post by Jenny M Benson
Post by Peter
Also among the recently dead is George Blake.
The announcement by the Beeb of his death prompted unresolved questions
between my sister and I which I said I would put to Umra for comment.
The announcer began the description of GB by saying that he was a Jew.
Why? Given that he was a Communist, this probably didn't refer to his
religious persuasion, but I don't think a person's religious persuasion
would be mentioned in an obituary unless it was relevant to their career
or life story. It presumably then referred to his ethnic heritage. But
why are Jewish people so often singled out for mention of their heritage
when it is not relevant to the context? Is it all part of the
so-prevalent anti-Semitism which I have never understood. (I mean I
have never understood WHY there is so much anti-Semitism.) GB was
apparently born in the Netherlands but described as a "British spy" -
which could have meant "spied for the British" or "of British citizenship."
I know we have Umrats of Jewish heritage. Would you not object if
someone said "X, who is Jewish, posted a funny joke on Umra to-day"
rather than just "X posted a funny joke ..."?
I didn't hear the broadcast to which you refer and would have been
quite taken aback if the announcer had used the word Jew on its own.
As The New York Times put it: "He was born George Behar in Rotterdam
on Nov. 11, 1922. His mother was a Dutch Protestant; his father,
Albert, was a Spanish Jew born in Turkey who fought the Ottoman Empire
in World War I and was wounded, cited for gallantry and given British
citizenship."
If his mother was a Dutch Protestant (and presumably not Jewish since
there is no mention of it) then surely GB wasn't Jewish?
Or do I have that wrong?
Post by Vicky Ayech
The mention of his mixture of heritages in this and many other
obituaries was to explain why Blake said that he never identified with
any of his backgrounds and didn't consider himself a traitor because
he didn't consider himself British. Whether or not you agree with
Blake's stance, I think that unraveling his heritage and his history
in the Netherlands and elsewhere goes some way to explaining how he
arrived at his philosophical position.
If he didn't consider himself British, that would be an excellent reason
for not joining the British armed forces, and not joining the British
Intelligence Services.
To join and then do everything in his power to harm those around him
speaks of just a tad more than "not considering himself British".
--
Sam Plusnet
Sid Nuncius
2020-12-28 19:52:26 UTC
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Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Nick Odell
As The New York Times put it: "He was born George Behar in Rotterdam
on Nov. 11, 1922. His mother was a Dutch Protestant; his father,
Albert, was a Spanish Jew born in Turkey who fought the Ottoman Empire
in World War I and was wounded, cited for gallantry and given British
citizenship."
If his mother was a Dutch Protestant (and presumably not Jewish since
there is no mention of it) then surely GB wasn't Jewish?
Or do I have that wrong?
That depends on who you ask.

In Judaism itself, you are quite correct. However, that nice Mr Hitler
and his chums took a much more generously inclusive approach. I think
many anti-Semites[1], while they may not support and may even deplore Mr
H's other policies, take a similar view - that the evil of Judaism runs
in the blood and it doesn't much matter whose blood it came from, nor
how diluted it may be.
--
Sid
(Make sure Matron is away when you reply)
Nick Odell
2020-12-28 22:06:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Vicky Ayech
On Mon, 28 Dec 2020 10:07:38 +0000, Jenny M Benson
Post by Jenny M Benson
Post by Peter
Also among the recently dead is George Blake.
The announcement by the Beeb of his death prompted unresolved questions
between my sister and I which I said I would put to Umra for comment.
The announcer began the description of GB by saying that he was a Jew.
Why? Given that he was a Communist, this probably didn't refer to his
religious persuasion, but I don't think a person's religious persuasion
would be mentioned in an obituary unless it was relevant to their career
or life story. It presumably then referred to his ethnic heritage. But
why are Jewish people so often singled out for mention of their heritage
when it is not relevant to the context? Is it all part of the
so-prevalent anti-Semitism which I have never understood. (I mean I
have never understood WHY there is so much anti-Semitism.) GB was
apparently born in the Netherlands but described as a "British spy" -
which could have meant "spied for the British" or "of British citizenship."
I know we have Umrats of Jewish heritage. Would you not object if
someone said "X, who is Jewish, posted a funny joke on Umra to-day"
rather than just "X posted a funny joke ..."?
I didn't hear the broadcast to which you refer and would have been
quite taken aback if the announcer had used the word Jew on its own.
As The New York Times put it: "He was born George Behar in Rotterdam
on Nov. 11, 1922. His mother was a Dutch Protestant; his father,
Albert, was a Spanish Jew born in Turkey who fought the Ottoman Empire
in World War I and was wounded, cited for gallantry and given British
citizenship."
If his mother was a Dutch Protestant (and presumably not Jewish since
there is no mention of it) then surely GB wasn't Jewish?
Or do I have that wrong?
Post by Vicky Ayech
The mention of his mixture of heritages in this and many other
obituaries was to explain why Blake said that he never identified with
any of his backgrounds and didn't consider himself a traitor because
he didn't consider himself British. Whether or not you agree with
Blake's stance, I think that unraveling his heritage and his history
in the Netherlands and elsewhere goes some way to explaining how he
arrived at his philosophical position.
If he didn't consider himself British, that would be an excellent reason
for not joining the British armed forces, and not joining the British
Intelligence Services.
To join and then do everything in his power to harm those around him
speaks of just a tad more than "not considering himself British".
I'm not defending the man just explaining why I think most of the
obituarists felt it necessary to go into such detail about his
parents.

Nick
Joe Kerr
2020-12-28 22:20:36 UTC
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Post by Jenny M Benson
Post by Peter
Also among the recently dead is George Blake.
The announcement by the Beeb of his death prompted unresolved questions
between my sister and I which I said I would put to Umra for comment.
The announcer began the description of GB by saying that he was a Jew.
Why?  Given that he was a Communist, this probably didn't refer to his
religious persuasion, but I don't think a person's religious persuasion
would be mentioned in an obituary unless it was relevant to their career
or life story.  It presumably then referred to his ethnic heritage.  But
why are Jewish people so often singled out for mention of their heritage
when it is not relevant to the context?  Is it all part of the
so-prevalent anti-Semitism which I have never understood.  (I mean I
have never understood WHY there is so much anti-Semitism.) GB was
apparently born in the Netherlands but described as a "British spy" -
which could have meant "spied for the British" or "of British citizenship."
Simon Schama did a TV series called the Story of the Jews that explained
why Jewish is a religious and an ethnic description and why the people
are so often singled out for belonging. Unfortunately I can't remember
much about it.
Post by Jenny M Benson
I know we have Umrats of Jewish heritage.  Would you not object if
someone said "X, who is Jewish, posted a funny joke on Umra to-day"
rather than just "X posted a funny joke ..."?
--
Ric
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