Discussion:
Solstice
(too old to reply)
Kate B
2019-12-21 21:11:14 UTC
Permalink
I read that the weather was so dull at Newgrange (a cairn in Southern Ireland) that the solsticial dawn did not shine into the chamber.
Isn't it technically tomorrow?
--
Kate B
London
Kate B
2019-12-21 21:13:05 UTC
Permalink
Tis the yeares midnight and it is the dayes...
Just thought it needed saying.
Always. Though those of us who still adhere to the old calendar said it
on December 13th ;)
--
Kate B
London
Sid Nuncius
2019-12-22 06:20:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kate B
Tis the yeares midnight and it is the dayes...
 Just thought it needed saying.
Always. Though those of us who still adhere to the old calendar said
it on December 13th ;)
If the subject is solstice, then whatever date you say it is, the actual
solstice is in five hours and some minutes. So unless the old calendar
says tomorrow is the 13th ... but you said "said", so I presume you
meant in the past.
Donne called the poem "A Nocturnall Upon S. Lucies Day, being the
Shortest Day"[1]. St. Lucy's Day is 13th December which was also the
solstice on the Julian calendar. Under the Gregorian calendar, the
solstice and St Lucy's day no longer coincide; Kate reads/recites it on
St. Lucy's Day while I read it every year on 21st December. Both make
sense, but for me (and for Donne in the poem) the real significance is
in the solstice and the marking of the year's midnight. (I know that
the precise time of the solstice isn't always on that day, but that's my
own little tradition and I like to keep it on the 21st.)

HTH.


[1] This is the spelling used in my Everyman edition of the Complete
Poems. I love the archaic spelling (and punctuation) of that edition,
but most now modernise both for clarity. Fair enough - yer pays yer
money and you takes yer choice.
--
Sid (Make sure Matron is away when you reply)
Vicky Ayech
2019-12-21 22:10:17 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 21 Dec 2019 19:42:53 +0000, Sid Nuncius
Tis the yeares midnight and it is the dayes...
Just thought it needed saying.
Merry Yule, everyone.
krw
2019-12-22 15:08:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vicky Ayech
On Sat, 21 Dec 2019 19:42:53 +0000, Sid Nuncius
Tis the yeares midnight and it is the dayes...
Just thought it needed saying.
Merry Yule, everyone.
....and a Very Happy Hogswatch from me, the Hounds and a Boarding Poodle!
Very dangerous the Bored Poodle. Best have a snipper riffle close to hand.
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
Sam Plusnet
2019-12-22 21:51:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vicky Ayech
On Sat, 21 Dec 2019 19:42:53 +0000, Sid Nuncius
Tis the yeares midnight and it is the dayes...
Just thought it needed saying.
Merry Yule, everyone.
....and a Very Happy Hogswatch from me, the Hounds and a Boarding Poodle!
Very dangerous the Bored Poodle.  Best have a snipper riffle close to hand.
I was wondering if Nelson's navy ever used a boarding poodle during one
of those thrilling ship-to-ship actions.

"Unleash the boarding poodles and she'll strike her colours in a trice!"
--
Sam Plusnet
Min
2019-12-24 05:10:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Vicky Ayech
On Sat, 21 Dec 2019 19:42:53 +0000, Sid Nuncius
Tis the yeares midnight and it is the dayes...
Just thought it needed saying.
Merry Yule, everyone.
....and a Very Happy Hogswatch from me, the Hounds and a Boarding Poodle!
Very dangerous the Bored Poodle.  Best have a snipper riffle close to hand.
I was wondering if Nelson's navy ever used a boarding poodle during one
of those thrilling ship-to-ship actions.
"Unleash the boarding poodles and she'll strike her colours in a trice!"
Ken the Boarding Poodle is a lovely little dog - far less likely to
need the snipper riffle han the two incumbents!
--
Min
Nick Leverton
2019-12-21 22:27:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kate B
I read that the weather was so dull at Newgrange (a cairn in Southern Ireland) that the solsticial dawn did not shine into the chamber.
Isn't it technically tomorrow?
I believe so, 04.19.

Nick
--
"The Internet, a sort of ersatz counterfeit of real life"
-- Janet Street-Porter, BBC2, 19th March 1996
Jim Easterbrook
2019-12-21 22:44:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kate B
I read that the weather was so dull at Newgrange (a cairn in Southern Ireland) that the solsticial dawn did not shine into the chamber.
Isn't it technically tomorrow?
About 04:19 UTC so, depending on your time zone, today or tomorrow.
--
Jim <http://www.jim-easterbrook.me.uk/>
1959/1985? M B+ G+ A L- I- S- P-- CH0(p) Ar++ T+ H0 Q--- Sh0
Sam Plusnet
2019-12-22 21:48:25 UTC
Permalink
Tis the yeares midnight and it is the dayes...
Just thought it needed saying.
https://www.timeanddate.com

Shows some odd facts.
Dawn continues to happen later in the day until somewhere around the 3rd
of January (at least it does in this next of the bois - your timing may
vary).
--
Sam Plusnet
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2019-12-22 22:51:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Tis the yeares midnight and it is the dayes...
Just thought it needed saying.
https://www.timeanddate.com
Shows some odd facts.
Dawn continues to happen later in the day until somewhere around the
3rd of January (at least it does in this next of the bois - your timing
may vary).
Yes, the shortest day is neither the latest sunrise nor the earliest
sunset.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"Scheisse," said Pooh, trying out his German.
Anne B
2019-12-23 09:52:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Tis the yeares midnight and it is the dayes...
Just thought it needed saying.
https://www.timeanddate.com
Shows some odd facts.
Dawn continues to happen later in the day until somewhere around the 3rd
of January (at least it does in this next of the bois - your timing may
vary).
It was 08.54 here yesterday.It's 08.55 today, tomorrow and the next day,
after which it goes to 08.56 for 4 days. MetO forecast doesn't go
further than that.

Sunset is already getting later. It was 15.27 on Saturday and it's 15.28
today and 15.29 tomorrow.

And there's not a cloud in the sky.

Anne B
Sam Plusnet
2019-12-23 23:09:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anne B
Post by Sam Plusnet
Tis the yeares midnight and it is the dayes...
Just thought it needed saying.
https://www.timeanddate.com
Shows some odd facts.
Dawn continues to happen later in the day until somewhere around the
3rd of January (at least it does in this next of the bois - your
timing may vary).
It was 08.54 here yesterday.It's 08.55 today, tomorrow and the next day,
after which it goes to 08.56 for 4 days. MetO forecast doesn't go
further than that.
Sunset is already getting later. It was 15.27 on Saturday and it's 15.28
today and 15.29 tomorrow.
And there's not a cloud in the sky.
I knew that you lived towards the top of the island, but this does
illustrate that point.
Sunrise for us (South Wales) was at 08:17 today.
Sunset at 16:04.

I would post some daylight to you, but this weak and wan stuff would
never survive the journey.
--
Sam Plusnet
Penny
2019-12-24 09:48:30 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 23:09:47 +0000, Sam Plusnet <***@home.com> scrawled in
the dust...
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Anne B
Post by Sam Plusnet
Tis the yeares midnight and it is the dayes...
Just thought it needed saying.
https://www.timeanddate.com
Shows some odd facts.
Dawn continues to happen later in the day until somewhere around the
3rd of January (at least it does in this next of the bois - your
timing may vary).
It was 08.54 here yesterday.It's 08.55 today, tomorrow and the next day,
after which it goes to 08.56 for 4 days. MetO forecast doesn't go
further than that.
Sunset is already getting later. It was 15.27 on Saturday and it's 15.28
today and 15.29 tomorrow.
And there's not a cloud in the sky.
I knew that you lived towards the top of the island, but this does
illustrate that point.
Sunrise for us (South Wales) was at 08:17 today.
Sunset at 16:04.
I would post some daylight to you, but this weak and wan stuff would
never survive the journey.
I think 6.5(ish) hours of actual sunshine beats 7.75(ish) hours of damp
gloom anyway.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Anne B
2019-12-27 15:09:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Penny
the dust...
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Anne B
Post by Sam Plusnet
Tis the yeares midnight and it is the dayes...
Just thought it needed saying.
https://www.timeanddate.com
Shows some odd facts.
Dawn continues to happen later in the day until somewhere around the
3rd of January (at least it does in this next of the bois - your
timing may vary).
It was 08.54 here yesterday.It's 08.55 today, tomorrow and the next day,
after which it goes to 08.56 for 4 days. MetO forecast doesn't go
further than that.
Sunset is already getting later. It was 15.27 on Saturday and it's 15.28
today and 15.29 tomorrow.
And there's not a cloud in the sky.
I knew that you lived towards the top of the island, but this does
illustrate that point.
Sunrise for us (South Wales) was at 08:17 today.
Sunset at 16:04.
I would post some daylight to you, but this weak and wan stuff would
never survive the journey.
I think 6.5(ish) hours of actual sunshine beats 7.75(ish) hours of damp
gloom anyway.
I'd go for quality rather than quantity any time, thanks both :)

Sunrise today 08.56, sunset 15.31, but grey all day, though the sky was
pretty impressive thanks to strong winds over the mountains.

Spare a thought for the folk on Unst: sunrise 09.15, sunset 14.54 today.

Anne B
carolet
2019-12-26 11:36:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kate B
I read that the weather was so dull at Newgrange (a cairn in Southern
Ireland) that the solsticial dawn did not shine into the chamber.
Isn't it technically tomorrow?
I thought so, but when I received a text that day wishing me a "Happy
New Equinox" I did begin to wonder.
--
CaroleT
Penny
2019-12-26 13:57:53 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 26 Dec 2019 11:36:26 +0000, carolet <***@gmail.com>
scrawled in the dust...
Post by carolet
Post by Kate B
I read that the weather was so dull at Newgrange (a cairn in Southern
Ireland) that the solsticial dawn did not shine into the chamber.
Isn't it technically tomorrow?
I thought so, but when I received a text that day wishing me a "Happy
New Equinox" I did begin to wonder.
Is the person who sent that a builder or do they use a time machine?
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
DavidK
2019-12-27 13:40:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by carolet
Post by Kate B
I read that the weather was so dull at Newgrange (a cairn in Southern
Ireland) that the solsticial dawn did not shine into the chamber.
Isn't it technically tomorrow?
I thought so, but when I received a text that day wishing me a "Happy
New Equinox" I did begin to wonder.
Is the person who sent that a builder or do they use a time machine?
I've just consulted my phone, and on Sunday 22nd at 8:41 someone sent a
message saying "Happy New Equinox!!" so it might have been me. Sometimes
I send a timed message but I thought young Carolette wouldn't have
appreciated it at 04:19 on 22nd.

I used to get a headache trying to understand the geometry that caused
the dawn and sunset on the solstice to not be symmetrical about noon
until I found that the geometry wasn't responsible. It's that the
earth's path around the sun is an ellipse, not a circle, and so not all
days have the same length. Come the solstice and what we call 12 o'clock
isn't even close to the time when the sun is highest.
carolet
2019-12-27 17:39:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by DavidK
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by carolet
Post by Kate B
I read that the weather was so dull at Newgrange (a cairn in Southern
Ireland) that the solsticial dawn did not shine into the chamber.
Isn't it technically tomorrow?
I thought so, but when I received a text that day wishing me a "Happy
New Equinox" I did begin to wonder.
Is the person who sent that a builder or do they use a time machine?
I've just consulted my phone, and on Sunday 22nd at 8:41 someone sent a
message saying "Happy New Equinox!!" so it might have been me. Sometimes
I send a timed message but I thought young Carolette wouldn't have
appreciated it at 04:19 on 22nd.
I wasn't going to reveal who it was.
Post by DavidK
I used to get a headache trying to understand the geometry that caused
the dawn and sunset on the solstice to not be symmetrical about noon
until I found that the geometry wasn't responsible. It's that the
earth's path around the sun is an ellipse, not a circle, and so not all
days have the same length. Come the solstice and what we call 12 o'clock
isn't even close to the time when the sun is highest.
--
CaroleT
DavidK
2019-12-27 20:27:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by carolet
I wasn't going to reveal who it was.
I noticed; but I didn't notice that I'd written equinox instead of
solstice until you wrote here :-) I think I was distracted by wondering
if equinoctial and solstician were real words.
Tony Smith Gloucestershire
2019-12-28 10:52:05 UTC
Permalink
On Friday, 27 December 2019 20:27:14 UTC, DavidK wrote:

<snipped>

I think I was distracted by wondering
Post by DavidK
if equinoctial and solstician were real words.
OK, I spelled "solstitial" wrong. Mea culpa.
DavidK
2019-12-29 11:01:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Smith Gloucestershire
<snipped>
I think I was distracted by wondering
Post by DavidK
if equinoctial and solstician were real words.
OK, I spelled "solstitial" wrong. Mea culpa.
Um, I'm lost. Google likes your word and not mine. I was distracted by
the words on the morning of the solstice, before we started this
conversation.
Penny
2019-12-30 16:31:42 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 28 Dec 2019 02:52:05 -0800 (PST), Tony Smith Gloucestershire
Post by Tony Smith Gloucestershire
<snipped>
I think I was distracted by wondering
Post by DavidK
if equinoctial and solstician were real words.
OK, I spelled "solstitial" wrong. Mea culpa.
Agent's spell check changed whatever I wrote (solsticial, I think) to that
version.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Penny
2019-12-30 16:30:10 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 27 Dec 2019 20:27:12 +0000, DavidK <***@invalid.invalid>
scrawled in the dust...
Post by DavidK
Post by carolet
I wasn't going to reveal who it was.
I noticed; but I didn't notice that I'd written equinox instead of
solstice until you wrote here :-) I think I was distracted by wondering
if equinoctial and solstician were real words.
During my early schooling we learnt a song based upon Rule Britannia which
included the phrase "equinoctial gales" so I'm pretty sure of that one
(though it may have been made up for the song). Since then I have observed
gales to be common on Boxing Day (have had near misses with fallen trees at
least twice) so wonder if (near) solstitial gales are a 'thing' and if so
why?
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Mike
2019-12-30 16:44:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by DavidK
Post by carolet
I wasn't going to reveal who it was.
I noticed; but I didn't notice that I'd written equinox instead of
solstice until you wrote here :-) I think I was distracted by wondering
if equinoctial and solstician were real words.
During my early schooling we learnt a song based upon Rule Britannia which
included the phrase "equinoctial gales" so I'm pretty sure of that one
(though it may have been made up for the song). Since then I have observed
gales to be common on Boxing Day (have had near misses with fallen trees at
least twice) so wonder if (near) solstitial gales are a 'thing' and if so
why?
IIRC the phrase comes from a G&S work...
--
Toodle Pip
Penny
2019-12-31 08:51:05 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 30 Dec 2019 16:44:37 GMT, Mike <***@ntlworld.com> scrawled
in the dust...
Post by Mike
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by DavidK
Post by carolet
I wasn't going to reveal who it was.
I noticed; but I didn't notice that I'd written equinox instead of
solstice until you wrote here :-) I think I was distracted by wondering
if equinoctial and solstician were real words.
During my early schooling we learnt a song based upon Rule Britannia which
included the phrase "equinoctial gales" so I'm pretty sure of that one
(though it may have been made up for the song). Since then I have observed
gales to be common on Boxing Day (have had near misses with fallen trees at
least twice) so wonder if (near) solstitial gales are a 'thing' and if so
why?
IIRC the phrase comes from a G&S work...
Really? I'm pretty sure they didn't write "Britons never never shall be
marr-i-ed to a mer-may-id at the bottom of the deep blue sea."

Meteorologists say equinoctial gales are a myth.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Mike Ruddock
2019-12-31 08:52:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by DavidK
Post by carolet
I wasn't going to reveal who it was.
I noticed; but I didn't notice that I'd written equinox instead of
solstice until you wrote here :-) I think I was distracted by wondering
if equinoctial and solstician were real words.
During my early schooling we learnt a song based upon Rule Britannia which
included the phrase "equinoctial gales" so I'm pretty sure of that one
(though it may have been made up for the song). Since then I have observed
gales to be common on Boxing Day (have had near misses with fallen trees at
least twice) so wonder if (near) solstitial gales are a 'thing' and if so
why?
IIRC the phrase comes from a G&S work...
It was on the broad Atlantic, midst the equinoctial gales
That a young fellow fell overboard among the sharks and whales ....

A song about a mermaid using a bit of Rule Brittania in its tune.

Mike Ruddock
Chris McMillan
2020-01-01 09:37:49 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 08:52:49 +0000, Mike Ruddock
Post by Mike Ruddock
Post by Mike
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by DavidK
Post by carolet
I wasn't going to reveal who it was.
I noticed; but I didn't notice that I'd written equinox instead of
solstice until you wrote here :-) I think I was distracted by wondering
if equinoctial and solstician were real words.
During my early schooling we learnt a song based upon Rule Britannia which
included the phrase "equinoctial gales" so I'm pretty sure of that one
(though it may have been made up for the song). Since then I have observed
gales to be common on Boxing Day (have had near misses with fallen trees at
least twice) so wonder if (near) solstitial gales are a 'thing' and if so
why?
IIRC the phrase comes from a G&S work...
It was on the broad Atlantic, midst the equinoctial gales
That a young fellow fell overboard among the sharks and whales ....
A song about a mermaid using a bit of Rule Brittania in its tune.
That's the one. It was either 'Rhythm and Melody' or 'Singing Together',
I've still got a stack of the booklets somewhere. Apart from the many jolly
songs, the illustrations were good too.
Do the BBC still do singing programmes for schools?
No idea. Someone here can find the answer. Why keep a dog and bark myself?

Sincerely Chris

Tony Smith Gloucestershire
2019-12-26 11:46:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kate B
I read that the weather was so dull at Newgrange (a cairn in Southern Ireland) that the solsticial dawn did not shine into the chamber.
Isn't it technically tomorrow?
I discovered the Southern Irish Ancient Monuments people claimed to know it was 33nd this year but always run this event on 21st.
Tony Smith Gloucestershire
2019-12-26 12:12:08 UTC
Permalink
22nd
Mike
2019-12-26 12:26:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Smith Gloucestershire
Post by Kate B
I read that the weather was so dull at Newgrange (a cairn in Southern
Ireland) that the solsticial dawn did not shine into the chamber.
Isn't it technically tomorrow?
I discovered the Southern Irish Ancient Monuments people claimed to know
it was 33nd this year but always run this event on 21st.
How should an Umrat pronounce 33nd please? ;-)
--
Toodle Pip
Joe Kerr
2019-12-26 23:21:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike
Post by Tony Smith Gloucestershire
Post by Kate B
I read that the weather was so dull at Newgrange (a cairn in Southern
Ireland) that the solsticial dawn did not shine into the chamber.
Isn't it technically tomorrow?
I discovered the Southern Irish Ancient Monuments people claimed to know
it was 33nd this year but always run this event on 21st.
How should an Umrat pronounce 33nd please? ;-)
The same as anyone else would.
--
Ric
Tony Smith Gloucestershire
2019-12-26 23:25:58 UTC
Permalink
Thirty thirnd, of course.
Mike
2019-12-27 08:31:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Smith Gloucestershire
Thirty thirnd, of course.
Silly me, of course?!
--
Toodle Pip
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