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OT: EU (trains)
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SODAM
2020-03-03 13:11:12 UTC
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While in the park with Bingo yesterday, I saw several new trains pass by on
the adjacent main East Coast line. I haven’t seen such trains before. Their
livery was silver and ice blue and they were pointy at both ends ( hope
this isn’t too technical).

What would they be, please, train buffs?
--
SODAM
The thinking umrat’s choice for editor
BrritSki
2020-03-03 13:22:05 UTC
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Post by SODAM
While in the park with Bingo yesterday, I saw several new trains pass by on
the adjacent main East Coast line. I haven’t seen such trains before. Their
livery was silver and ice blue and they were pointy at both ends ( hope
this isn’t too technical).
What would they be, please, train buffs?
Pushmi-pullumans. HTH HAND
SODAM
2020-03-03 13:30:42 UTC
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Post by BrritSki
Post by SODAM
While in the park with Bingo yesterday, I saw several new trains pass by on
the adjacent main East Coast line. I haven’t seen such trains before. Their
livery was silver and ice blue and they were pointy at both ends ( hope
this isn’t too technical).
What would they be, please, train buffs?
Pushmi-pullumans. HTH HAND
LOL. :-))

Not helpful, however.
--
SODAM
The thinking umrat’s choice for editor
steveski
2020-03-03 14:12:47 UTC
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Post by SODAM
Post by BrritSki
Post by SODAM
While in the park with Bingo yesterday, I saw several new trains pass
by on the adjacent main East Coast line. I haven’t seen such trains
before. Their livery was silver and ice blue and they were pointy at
both ends ( hope this isn’t too technical).
What would they be, please, train buffs?
Pushmi-pullumans. HTH HAND
LOL. :-))
Not helpful, however.
Poss. Hitachi Azuma 800 stock? This is a (slightly) educated guess as I
don't know a lot about modern traction/stock.
--
Steveski
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2020-03-03 15:13:01 UTC
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Post by steveski
Post by SODAM
Post by BrritSki
Post by SODAM
While in the park with Bingo yesterday, I saw several new trains pass
by on the adjacent main East Coast line. I haven’t seen such trains
before. Their livery was silver and ice blue and they were pointy at
both ends ( hope this isn’t too technical).
What would they be, please, train buffs?
Pushmi-pullumans. HTH HAND
LOL. :-))
Not helpful, however.
Poss. Hitachi Azuma 800 stock? This is a (slightly) educated guess as I
don't know a lot about modern traction/stock.
I don't think so - I've seen the ones SODAM is referring to on the line
behind Morrisons in Heaton, and I _think_ they're rather more pointy
(longer snout). I googled Hitachi Azuma, and didn't see any in the
blue-and-silver livery SODAM and I have seen. (And was also startled by
https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/lner-hitachi-iep-bi-mode-class-800-1-azuma-five-car-train-pack-era-11.html
- OK, it's probably nearly 5 decades since I played with trains, but -
even if it's a five-car train - nearly 400 quid?!?)

The livery, as best I can remember, is silver with a dark blue stripe
(about where the windows are, IIRR).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

If a cluttered desk is characteristic of a cluttered mind, what does an empty
desk mean ?
Chris McMillan
2020-03-04 16:38:08 UTC
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Post by steveski
Post by SODAM
Post by BrritSki
Post by SODAM
While in the park with Bingo yesterday, I saw several new trains pass
by on the adjacent main East Coast line. I haven’t seen such trains
before. Their livery was silver and ice blue and they were pointy at
both ends ( hope this isn’t too technical).
What would they be, please, train buffs?
Pushmi-pullumans. HTH HAND
LOL. :-))
Not helpful, however.
Poss. Hitachi Azuma 800 stock? This is a (slightly) educated guess as I
don't know a lot about modern traction/stock.
Yes I agree. Saw them briefly in a techy railway history thing recently
and said I hadn’t seen them s out here. Not been on the ECML for a long
time as I go from here as direct as possible without changing till at least
Brum.

Sincerely Chris
krw
2020-03-05 13:09:09 UTC
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Post by Chris McMillan
Post by steveski
Post by SODAM
Post by BrritSki
Post by SODAM
While in the park with Bingo yesterday, I saw several new trains pass
by on the adjacent main East Coast line. I haven’t seen such trains
before. Their livery was silver and ice blue and they were pointy at
both ends ( hope this isn’t too technical).
What would they be, please, train buffs?
Pushmi-pullumans. HTH HAND
LOL. :-))
Not helpful, however.
Poss. Hitachi Azuma 800 stock? This is a (slightly) educated guess as I
don't know a lot about modern traction/stock.
Yes I agree. Saw them briefly in a techy railway history thing recently
and said I hadn’t seen them s out here. Not been on the ECML for a long
time as I go from here as direct as possible without changing till at least
Brum.
Sincerely Chris
You get an awful lot of 802s, which are closely related to the 800s,
through Reading every day
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
Chris McMillan
2020-03-09 18:52:08 UTC
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Post by krw
Post by Chris McMillan
Post by steveski
Post by SODAM
Post by BrritSki
Post by SODAM
While in the park with Bingo yesterday, I saw several new trains pass
by on the adjacent main East Coast line. I haven’t seen such trains
before. Their livery was silver and ice blue and they were pointy at
both ends ( hope this isn’t too technical).
What would they be, please, train buffs?
Pushmi-pullumans. HTH HAND
LOL. :-))
Not helpful, however.
Poss. Hitachi Azuma 800 stock? This is a (slightly) educated guess as I
don't know a lot about modern traction/stock.
Yes I agree. Saw them briefly in a techy railway history thing recently
and said I hadn’t seen them s out here. Not been on the ECML for a long
time as I go from here as direct as possible without changing till at least
Brum.
Sincerely Chris
You get an awful lot of 802s, which are closely related to the 800s,
through Reading every day
You’ve lost me now KRW. :)

Sincerely Chris
SODAM
2020-03-09 21:07:40 UTC
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Post by Chris McMillan
Post by krw
You get an awful lot of 802s, which are closely related to the 800s,
through Reading every day
You’ve lost me now KRW. :)
I know! I know! (Now)

They are the super smart new silver and ice blue trains that are pointy at
the front and back. I believe they belong to Trans Pennine. That’s all I
know. (Courtesy of EU)
--
SODAM
The thinking umrat’s choice for editor
krw
2020-03-10 10:44:30 UTC
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Post by Chris McMillan
Post by krw
Post by Chris McMillan
Post by steveski
Post by SODAM
Post by BrritSki
Post by SODAM
While in the park with Bingo yesterday, I saw several new trains pass
by on the adjacent main East Coast line. I haven’t seen such trains
before. Their livery was silver and ice blue and they were pointy at
both ends ( hope this isn’t too technical).
What would they be, please, train buffs?
Pushmi-pullumans. HTH HAND
LOL. :-))
Not helpful, however.
Poss. Hitachi Azuma 800 stock? This is a (slightly) educated guess as I
don't know a lot about modern traction/stock.
Yes I agree. Saw them briefly in a techy railway history thing recently
and said I hadn’t seen them s out here. Not been on the ECML for a long
time as I go from here as direct as possible without changing till at least
Brum.
Sincerely Chris
You get an awful lot of 802s, which are closely related to the 800s,
through Reading every day
You’ve lost me now KRW. :)
Sincerely Chris
The GWR have a collection of Green new trains which are similar to the
Azumas on LNER; the former are 802s the latter 800s.
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
Chris McMillan
2020-03-11 15:20:00 UTC
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Post by krw
Post by Chris McMillan
Post by krw
Post by Chris McMillan
Post by steveski
Post by SODAM
Post by BrritSki
Post by SODAM
While in the park with Bingo yesterday, I saw several new trains pass
by on the adjacent main East Coast line. I haven’t seen such trains
before. Their livery was silver and ice blue and they were pointy at
both ends ( hope this isn’t too technical).
What would they be, please, train buffs?
Pushmi-pullumans. HTH HAND
LOL. :-))
Not helpful, however.
Poss. Hitachi Azuma 800 stock? This is a (slightly) educated guess as I
don't know a lot about modern traction/stock.
Yes I agree. Saw them briefly in a techy railway history thing recently
and said I hadn’t seen them s out here. Not been on the ECML for a long
time as I go from here as direct as possible without changing till at least
Brum.
Sincerely Chris
You get an awful lot of 802s, which are closely related to the 800s,
through Reading every day
You’ve lost me now KRW. :)
Sincerely Chris
The GWR have a collection of Green new trains which are similar to the
Azumas on LNER; the former are 802s the latter 800s.
Lots of green new trains. None a patch on HST 125.

Sincerely Chris
krw
2020-03-12 09:41:15 UTC
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Post by Chris McMillan
None a patch on HST 125.
The DfT would string you up for heresy. They are electric (sometimes
when the DfT can be bothered to pay for knitting) and will therefore
accelerate faster than the 125s which are politely "knackered" after 40
years. THe new trains have wonderful nice hard seats which will get
softer the more they are used. And they come in packs of five so you
cannot walk through the train to the buffet and a restaurant car is out
of the question.
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
Chris McMillan
2020-03-13 16:06:38 UTC
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Post by krw
Post by Chris McMillan
None a patch on HST 125.
The DfT would string you up for heresy. They are electric (sometimes
when the DfT can be bothered to pay for knitting) and will therefore
accelerate faster than the 125s which are politely "knackered" after 40
years. THe new trains have wonderful nice hard seats which will get
softer the more they are used. And they come in packs of five so you
cannot walk through the train to the buffet and a restaurant car is out
of the question.
They might well soften up the more they’re used but a seat that’s so roomy,
I can’t even decide whether my back should ache or my feet swing off the
floor, I’ll never be satisfied. In time as all train and bus seats are
replaced this will become the norm as people’s overall height has grown.

Sincerely Chris

krw
2020-03-03 14:25:38 UTC
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Post by SODAM
While in the park with Bingo yesterday, I saw several new trains pass by on
the adjacent main East Coast line. I haven’t seen such trains before. Their
livery was silver and ice blue and they were pointy at both ends ( hope
this isn’t too technical).
What would they be, please, train buffs?
The DfT specified lumps of crap class 800 are red and silver:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_800
LNER go help us before it was nationalised decided to call them Azuma
for no earthly reason. God's Worst railway has some similar lumps of
crap in green.

If you are somewhere near London then silver and blue might be:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_700
Another DfT specified lump of crap for commuters.

If you are somewhere up North you might be seeing Trans Pennine Express
class 802
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_802
(Scroll down to the TPE section for a photo).
These are going to fix the transport problems in the north and are blue
and silver.
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2020-03-03 15:36:17 UTC
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Post by krw
Post by SODAM
While in the park with Bingo yesterday, I saw several new trains pass by on
the adjacent main East Coast line. I haven’t seen such trains before. Their
livery was silver and ice blue and they were pointy at both ends ( hope
this isn’t too technical).
What would they be, please, train buffs?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_800
LNER go help us before it was nationalised decided to call them Azuma
for no earthly reason. God's Worst railway has some similar lumps of
crap in green.
Difficult to tell the pointiness as most photos tend to be from just off
front-on. (Not those colours, anyway.) Azuma apparently means "east" (in
Japanese? I forget).
Post by krw
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_700
Another DfT specified lump of crap for commuters.
No, those are almost flat.
Post by krw
If you are somewhere up North you might be seeing Trans Pennine Express
class 802
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_802
(Scroll down to the TPE section for a photo).
These are going to fix the transport problems in the north and are blue
and silver.
The _livery_ in that pic. seems to go at an angle from the engine (is
that too old-fashioned a term?) to the roof of the first carriage. The
ones SODAM and I have seen, the carriages (same question) are coloured
horizontally (tapering down to the point on the engine). (I don't know
enough about trains to say whether that's the right pointiness or not;
I've only seen them fleetingly.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

If a cluttered desk is characteristic of a cluttered mind, what does an empty
desk mean ?
krw
2020-03-03 16:36:15 UTC
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Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by krw
Post by SODAM
While in the park with Bingo yesterday, I saw several new trains pass by on
the adjacent main East Coast line. I haven’t seen such trains before. Their
livery was silver and ice blue and they were pointy at both ends ( hope
this isn’t too technical).
 What would they be, please, train buffs?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_800
LNER go help us before it was nationalised decided to call them Azuma
for no earthly reason.  God's Worst railway has some similar lumps of
crap in green.
Difficult to tell the pointiness as most photos tend to be from just off
front-on. (Not those colours, anyway.) Azuma apparently means "east" (in
Japanese? I forget).
Post by krw
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_700
Another DfT specified lump of crap for commuters.
No, those are almost flat.
Post by krw
If you are somewhere up North you might be seeing Trans Pennine
Express class 802
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_802
(Scroll down to the TPE section for a photo).
These are going to fix the transport problems in the north and are
blue and silver.
The _livery_ in that pic. seems to go at an angle from the engine (is
that too old-fashioned a term?) to the roof of the first carriage. The
ones SODAM and I have seen, the carriages (same question) are coloured
horizontally (tapering down to the point on the engine). (I don't know
enough about trains to say whether that's the right pointiness or not;
I've only seen them fleetingly.)
OK

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_397
Nova 2?
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
SODAM
2020-03-03 17:08:51 UTC
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Post by krw
OK
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_397
Nova 2?
Heck, they look like them as well. Or are these the carriages that go with
the class 802 engine?

I do like them.
--
SODAM
The thinking umrat’s choice for editor
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2020-03-03 21:58:50 UTC
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[]
Post by krw
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
The _livery_ in that pic. seems to go at an angle from the engine (is
that too old-fashioned a term?) to the roof of the first carriage. The
ones SODAM and I have seen, the carriages (same question) are coloured
horizontally (tapering down to the point on the engine). (I don't know
enough about trains to say whether that's the right pointiness or not;
I've only seen them fleetingly.)
OK
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_397
Nova 2?
Nope - again, the livery on those is diagonal. And those go Liverpool to
Glasgow; I'm not sure what the routing of lines in the area is, but
SODAM and I definitely saw these north-_east_ of the centre of
Newcastle.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

The early worm gets the bird.
Chris McMillan
2020-03-04 16:53:09 UTC
Reply
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Post by krw
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by krw
Post by SODAM
While in the park with Bingo yesterday, I saw several new trains pass by on
the adjacent main East Coast line. I haven’t seen such trains before. Their
livery was silver and ice blue and they were pointy at both ends ( hope
this isn’t too technical).
 What would they be, please, train buffs?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_800
LNER go help us before it was nationalised decided to call them Azuma
for no earthly reason.  God's Worst railway has some similar lumps of
crap in green.
Difficult to tell the pointiness as most photos tend to be from just off
front-on. (Not those colours, anyway.) Azuma apparently means "east" (in
Japanese? I forget).
Post by krw
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_700
Another DfT specified lump of crap for commuters.
No, those are almost flat.
Post by krw
If you are somewhere up North you might be seeing Trans Pennine
Express class 802
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_802
(Scroll down to the TPE section for a photo).
These are going to fix the transport problems in the north and are
blue and silver.
The _livery_ in that pic. seems to go at an angle from the engine (is
that too old-fashioned a term?) to the roof of the first carriage. The
ones SODAM and I have seen, the carriages (same question) are coloured
horizontally (tapering down to the point on the engine). (I don't know
enough about trains to say whether that's the right pointiness or not;
I've only seen them fleetingly.)
OK
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_397
Nova 2?
Very likely being Nov 2019, just before mass quarantine might be needed!

Sincerely Chris
krw
2020-03-03 16:38:20 UTC
Reply
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Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by krw
Post by SODAM
While in the park with Bingo yesterday, I saw several new trains pass by on
the adjacent main East Coast line. I haven’t seen such trains before. Their
livery was silver and ice blue and they were pointy at both ends ( hope
this isn’t too technical).
 What would they be, please, train buffs?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_800
LNER go help us before it was nationalised decided to call them Azuma
for no earthly reason.  God's Worst railway has some similar lumps of
crap in green.
Difficult to tell the pointiness as most photos tend to be from just off
front-on. (Not those colours, anyway.) Azuma apparently means "east" (in
Japanese? I forget).
Post by krw
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_700
Another DfT specified lump of crap for commuters.
No, those are almost flat.
Post by krw
If you are somewhere up North you might be seeing Trans Pennine
Express class 802
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_802
(Scroll down to the TPE section for a photo).
These are going to fix the transport problems in the north and are
blue and silver.
The _livery_ in that pic. seems to go at an angle from the engine (is
that too old-fashioned a term?) to the roof of the first carriage. The
ones SODAM and I have seen, the carriages (same question) are coloured
horizontally (tapering down to the point on the engine). (I don't know
enough about trains to say whether that's the right pointiness or not;
I've only seen them fleetingly.)
Or possibly Nova 3
https://railcolornews.com/2019/08/24/uk-transpennine-express-nova-3-enters-commercial-service/
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
SODAM
2020-03-03 18:31:35 UTC
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Post by krw
Or possibly Nova 3
https://railcolornews.com/2019/08/24/uk-transpennine-express-nova-3-enters-commercial-service/
No, wrong shape at the front and I don’t think it has that purple splodge
on the wings.
--
SODAM
The thinking umrat’s choice for editor
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2020-03-03 22:05:23 UTC
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Post by SODAM
Post by krw
Or possibly Nova 3
https://railcolornews.com/2019/08/24/uk-transpennine-express-nova-3-ent
ers-commercial-service/
No, wrong shape at the front and I don’t think it has that purple splodge
on the wings.
And, again, diagonal paint scheme. (Pretty though.) And, again, I don't
think something north-east of NCL centre would be "transpennine".
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

The early worm gets the bird.
Joe Kerr
2020-03-03 23:19:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by SODAM
Post by krw
Or possibly Nova 3
https://railcolornews.com/2019/08/24/uk-transpennine-express-nova-3-ent
ers-commercial-service/
No, wrong shape at the front and I don’t think it has that purple splodge
on the wings.
And, again, diagonal paint scheme. (Pretty though.) And, again, I don't
think something north-east of NCL centre would be "transpennine".
I don't see why not. I have seen Transpennine Express several times
between London and Reading.

There was something white with rather nice red stripes there the other
day. It looked very elegant.
--
Ric
krw
2020-03-03 23:23:37 UTC
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Permalink
I don't think something north-east of NCL centre would be "transpennine".
Since the last timetable change it very definitely is TPE.
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
BrritSki
2020-03-04 10:58:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by SODAM
Post by krw
Or possibly Nova 3
https://railcolornews.com/2019/08/24/uk-transpennine-express-nova-3-ent
ers-commercial-service/
No, wrong shape at the front and I don’t think it has that purple splodge
on the wings.
And, again, diagonal paint scheme. (Pretty though.) And, again, I don't
think something north-east of NCL centre would be "transpennine".
Are those some hills that identify as floodplains ?
SODAM
2020-03-03 17:05:36 UTC
Reply
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Post by krw
Post by SODAM
While in the park with Bingo yesterday, I saw several new trains pass by on
the adjacent main East Coast line. I haven’t seen such trains before. Their
livery was silver and ice blue and they were pointy at both ends ( hope
this isn’t too technical).
What would they be, please, train buffs?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_800
LNER go help us before it was nationalised decided to call them Azuma
for no earthly reason. God's Worst railway has some similar lumps of
crap in green.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_700
Another DfT specified lump of crap for commuters.
If you are somewhere up North you might be seeing Trans Pennine Express
class 802
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_802
(Scroll down to the TPE section for a photo).
These are going to fix the transport problems in the north and are blue
and silver.
That’s the thing! Class 802. They look wonderfully elegant in motion and I
love the colours. I imagine they will have WiFi everywhere, smoked salmon
sandwiches and champagne in the buffet (or even just a decent cup of tea)
and always arrive either on time or earlier. <contented sigh>
--
SODAM
The thinking umrat’s choice for editor
Mike
2020-03-03 17:28:54 UTC
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Post by SODAM
Post by krw
Post by SODAM
While in the park with Bingo yesterday, I saw several new trains pass by on
the adjacent main East Coast line. I haven’t seen such trains before. Their
livery was silver and ice blue and they were pointy at both ends ( hope
this isn’t too technical).
What would they be, please, train buffs?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_800
LNER go help us before it was nationalised decided to call them Azuma
for no earthly reason. God's Worst railway has some similar lumps of
crap in green.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_700
Another DfT specified lump of crap for commuters.
If you are somewhere up North you might be seeing Trans Pennine Express
class 802
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_802
(Scroll down to the TPE section for a photo).
These are going to fix the transport problems in the north and are blue
and silver.
That’s the thing! Class 802. They look wonderfully elegant in motion and I
love the colours. I imagine they will have WiFi everywhere, smoked salmon
sandwiches and champagne in the buffet (or even just a decent cup of tea)
and always arrive either on time or earlier. <contented sigh>
That’s a wonderful imagination you possess Sodam! - If only!
--
Toodle Pip
krw
2020-03-03 23:25:46 UTC
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Post by SODAM
I imagine they will have WiFi everywhere, smoked salmon
sandwiches and champagne in the buffet (or even just a decent cup of tea)
and always arrive either on time or earlier.
Wifi - possibly
Smoked salmon sandwiches - not a hope
Champagne, buffet - you must be on another planet
Decent cup of tea - only in comparison with the tea served in the HHGTTG
On time or earlier - highly unlikely as Network Rail was not allowed to
install the electricity supplies so they are running on diesel even
though they are electric trains.
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
SODAM
2020-03-04 00:41:17 UTC
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krw <***@whitnet.uk> wrote:
.
Post by krw
Wifi - possibly
Smoked salmon sandwiches - not a hope
Champagne, buffet - you must be on another planet
Decent cup of tea - only in comparison with the tea served in the HHGTTG
On time or earlier - highly unlikely as Network Rail was not allowed to
install the electricity supplies so they are running on diesel even
though they are electric trains.
Electric trains running on diesel? This is madness. I thought the
Government owned Network rail. Who on earth disallowed them from installing
the electricity supply?
--
SODAM
The thinking umrat’s choice for editor
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2020-03-04 00:53:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
[]
Post by SODAM
Post by krw
Decent cup of tea - only in comparison with the tea served in the HHGTTG
On time or earlier - highly unlikely as Network Rail was not allowed to
install the electricity supplies so they are running on diesel even
though they are electric trains.
Electric trains running on diesel? This is madness. I thought the
Government owned Network rail. Who on earth disallowed them from installing
the electricity supply?
I wondered about that. Does it mean that the engines are capable of
running on Diesel - i. e. they carry around a Diesel engine all the time
- or they're using a Diesel engine _in place of_ the electric one?
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

...Every morning is the dawn of a new error...
Clive Arthur
2020-03-04 08:54:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by SODAM
Post by krw
Decent cup of tea - only in comparison with the tea served in the HHGTTG
On time or earlier - highly unlikely as Network Rail was not allowed to
install the electricity supplies so they are running on diesel even
though they are electric trains.
Electric trains running on diesel? This is madness. I thought the
Government owned Network rail. Who on earth disallowed them from installing
the electricity supply?
I wondered about that. Does it mean that the engines are capable of
running on Diesel - i. e. they carry around a Diesel engine all the time
- or they're using a Diesel engine _in place of_ the electric one?
The 'engines' are electric only, but some or all of the 'carriages' have
diesel generators slung underneath. They switch between overhead lines
and on-board generators while moving at full speed.
--
Cheers
Clive
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2020-03-04 13:59:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
[]
Post by Clive Arthur
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by SODAM
Electric trains running on diesel? This is madness. I thought the
Government owned Network rail. Who on earth disallowed them from installing
the electricity supply?
I wondered about that. Does it mean that the engines are capable of
running on Diesel - i. e. they carry around a Diesel engine all the
time - or they're using a Diesel engine _in place of_ the electric one?
The 'engines' are electric only, but some or all of the 'carriages'
have diesel generators slung underneath. They switch between overhead
lines and on-board generators while moving at full speed.
Thanks for the explanation; interesting. (So, in effect, they _are_
carrying around Diesel equipment all the time.) I assume you mean those
Diesel generators are capable of generating enough to actually power the
"engines" at the end of the train - in other words, it's a "hybrid", or
(since it doesn't include batteries, which as you point out are totally
impractical) "duel-'fuel'" system.

Or do those "carriages" also have (electric) drive motors too, i. e.
could move on their own? I presume not.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Listen, three-eyes, don't you try to out-wierd me, I get stranger things than
you free with my breakfast cereal. (Zaphod Beeblebrox in the link episode)
Clive Arthur
2020-03-04 14:09:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On 04/03/2020 13:59, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

<snip>
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Thanks for the explanation; interesting. (So, in effect, they _are_
carrying around Diesel equipment all the time.) I assume you mean those
Diesel generators are capable of generating enough to actually power the
"engines" at the end of the train - in other words, it's a "hybrid", or
(since it doesn't include batteries, which as you point out are totally
impractical) "duel-'fuel'" system.
Or do those "carriages" also have (electric) drive motors too, i. e.
could move on their own? I presume not.
Yes, the generators generate enough for the engines, and no, the
carriages don't have their own motors.

Paddington to Penzance, a personal favourite, goes electric overhead to
Newbury where the wires run out and thence generators. I have listened,
but can't hear any change.
--
Cheers
Clive
Joe Kerr
2020-03-04 14:20:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Clive Arthur
<snip>
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Thanks for the explanation; interesting. (So, in effect, they _are_
carrying around Diesel equipment all the time.) I assume you mean
those Diesel generators are capable of generating enough to actually
power the "engines" at the end of the train - in other words, it's a
"hybrid", or (since it doesn't include batteries, which as you point
out are totally impractical) "duel-'fuel'" system.
Or do those "carriages" also have (electric) drive motors too, i. e.
could move on their own? I presume not.
Yes, the generators generate enough for the engines, and no, the
carriages don't have their own motors.
Paddington to Penzance, a personal favourite, goes electric overhead to
Newbury where the wires run out and thence generators.  I have listened,
but can't hear any change.
Just out of curiosity, as we are on the subject of powering trains: Has
anybody ever built a steam engine fueled by oil or anything else other
than coal/wood or similar? I would have thought it would be more
practical than coal and retain the character of a "real" loco but I
expect that it would be too inefficient compared with a true diesel engine.
--
Ric
Mike
2020-03-04 14:28:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Joe Kerr
Post by Clive Arthur
<snip>
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Thanks for the explanation; interesting. (So, in effect, they _are_
carrying around Diesel equipment all the time.) I assume you mean
those Diesel generators are capable of generating enough to actually
power the "engines" at the end of the train - in other words, it's a
"hybrid", or (since it doesn't include batteries, which as you point
out are totally impractical) "duel-'fuel'" system.
Or do those "carriages" also have (electric) drive motors too, i. e.
could move on their own? I presume not.
Yes, the generators generate enough for the engines, and no, the
carriages don't have their own motors.
Paddington to Penzance, a personal favourite, goes electric overhead to
Newbury where the wires run out and thence generators.  I have listened,
but can't hear any change.
Just out of curiosity, as we are on the subject of powering trains: Has
anybody ever built a steam engine fueled by oil or anything else other
than coal/wood or similar? I would have thought it would be more
practical than coal and retain the character of a "real" loco but I
expect that it would be too inefficient compared with a true diesel engine.
Mamod produced a traction engine that used methylated spirit as the heat
source - but I don’t know about full scale jobs.
--
Toodle Pip
Rosemary Miskin
2020-03-04 17:57:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Mamod produced a traction engine that used methylated spirit as the heat 
source -
We've got one of those in our large collection of abandoned toys.
IIRC , it can be attached to a meccano construction of various
kinds.

Rosemary
Tony Smith Gloucestershire
2020-03-04 19:12:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rosemary Miskin
We've got one of those in our large collection of abandoned toys.
IIRC , it can be attached to a meccano construction of various
kinds.
My youngest brother had one and used to run it (with meccano attachment) along a long corridor in the Bristol University Physics Dept. where our dad worked.
Nick Leverton
2020-03-04 14:47:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Joe Kerr
Just out of curiosity, as we are on the subject of powering trains: Has
anybody ever built a steam engine fueled by oil or anything else other
than coal/wood or similar? I would have thought it would be more
practical than coal and retain the character of a "real" loco but I
expect that it would be too inefficient compared with a true diesel engine.
Yes, oil fuelling has been used quite a bit over the years. Many locos
have even been converted between coal and oil firing as availability
and costs changed. Some of the Welsh steam railways used it, though
I think all have been converted back to coal now as it's much cheaper
at present. Oil is easier on the fireman (no shovelling!) but needs
care to not heat/cool the boiler too quickly.

Sugar cane straw ("bagasse") has been used in the sugar fields.

Two Irish locos were built to experimentally burn peat, though neither
was a great success.
<http://www.bulleidlocos.org.uk/_oth/cc1_itb.aspx>

The Swiss, faced with wartime coal shortages but having plenty of
hydro-electricity, converted a few shunting locos to steam-electric by
fitting heating elements in the boiler.
<http://www.douglas-self.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/swisselec/swisselc.htm>

Nick
--
"The Internet, a sort of ersatz counterfeit of real life"
-- Janet Street-Porter, BBC2, 19th March 1996
John Ashby
2020-03-04 16:38:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Nick Leverton
Post by Joe Kerr
Just out of curiosity, as we are on the subject of powering trains: Has
anybody ever built a steam engine fueled by oil or anything else other
than coal/wood or similar? I would have thought it would be more
practical than coal and retain the character of a "real" loco but I
expect that it would be too inefficient compared with a true diesel engine.
Yes, oil fuelling has been used quite a bit over the years. Many locos
have even been converted between coal and oil firing as availability
and costs changed. Some of the Welsh steam railways used it, though
I think all have been converted back to coal now as it's much cheaper
at present. Oil is easier on the fireman (no shovelling!) but needs
care to not heat/cool the boiler too quickly.
Sugar cane straw ("bagasse") has been used in the sugar fields.
Two Irish locos were built to experimentally burn peat, though neither
was a great success.
<http://www.bulleidlocos.org.uk/_oth/cc1_itb.aspx>
Miles naGopaleen has a For Steam Men column which attaches a large scoop
to the front of the locomotive to dig up peat as it crosses the bogs
which is then fed directly into the furnace.

There's a fatal flaw in there somewhere.

john
steve hague
2020-03-05 12:16:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by John Ashby
Post by Joe Kerr
Just out of curiosity, as we are on the subject of powering trains: Has
anybody ever built a steam engine fueled by oil or anything else other
than coal/wood or similar? I would have thought it would be more
practical than coal and retain the character of a "real" loco but I
expect that it would be too inefficient compared with a true diesel engine.
Yes, oil fuelling has been used quite a bit over the years.  Many locos
have even been converted between coal and oil firing as availability
and costs changed.  Some of the Welsh steam railways used it, though
I think all have been converted back to coal now as it's much cheaper
at present.  Oil is easier on the fireman (no shovelling!) but needs
care to not heat/cool the boiler too quickly.
Sugar cane straw ("bagasse") has been used in the sugar fields.
Two Irish locos were built to experimentally burn peat, though neither
was a great success.
<http://www.bulleidlocos.org.uk/_oth/cc1_itb.aspx>
Miles naGopaleen has a For Steam Men column which attaches a large scoop
to the front of the locomotive to dig up peat as it crosses the bogs
which is then fed directly into the furnace.
There's a fatal flaw in there somewhere.
john
Addressed as "Achilles and the Tortoise" at some point in history. If
the tortoise set off first, logic dictates that Achilles could never
catch up with it. Makes sense to me.
Steve
Tony Smith Gloucestershire
2020-03-04 17:33:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wednesday, 4 March 2020 14:48:03 UTC, Nick Leverton wrote:

<snipped>
Post by Nick Leverton
Two Irish locos were built to experimentally burn peat, though neither
was a great success.
<http://www.bulleidlocos.org.uk/_oth/cc1_itb.aspx>
Some 50 years ago I saw a ginormous locomotive called "Medb" in the Transport Museum at Cultra in Co. Down. It had been used in the South and as I recall it had been modified to use the poor quality coal (almost lignite) available to Bord na Choochoo. Apparently it was so heavy as to challenge the rails.
Joe Kerr
2020-03-05 15:48:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Nick Leverton
Post by Joe Kerr
Just out of curiosity, as we are on the subject of powering trains: Has
anybody ever built a steam engine fueled by oil or anything else other
than coal/wood or similar? I would have thought it would be more
practical than coal and retain the character of a "real" loco but I
expect that it would be too inefficient compared with a true diesel engine.
Yes, oil fuelling has been used quite a bit over the years. Many locos
have even been converted between coal and oil firing as availability
and costs changed. Some of the Welsh steam railways used it, though
I think all have been converted back to coal now as it's much cheaper
at present. Oil is easier on the fireman (no shovelling!) but needs
care to not heat/cool the boiler too quickly.
Sugar cane straw ("bagasse") has been used in the sugar fields.
Two Irish locos were built to experimentally burn peat, though neither
was a great success.
<http://www.bulleidlocos.org.uk/_oth/cc1_itb.aspx>
The Swiss, faced with wartime coal shortages but having plenty of
hydro-electricity, converted a few shunting locos to steam-electric by
fitting heating elements in the boiler.
<http://www.douglas-self.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/swisselec/swisselc.htm>
Nick
Most interesting. Thank you.
--
Ric
SODAM
2020-03-06 00:47:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Joe Kerr
Most interesting. Thank you.
I agree completely. This thread turned from an idle request for a train’s
name into a most instructive history of the train services run by our
shambolic, ignorant and vainglorious masters. The new high speed train
continues down the same way, paved with their good intentions.

Bah!
--
SODAM
The thinking umrat’s choice for editor
Vicky Ayech
2020-03-06 09:47:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Joe Kerr
Most interesting. Thank you.
I agree completely. This thread turned from an idle request for a train’s
name into a most instructive history of the train services run by our
shambolic, ignorant and vainglorious masters. The new high speed train
continues down the same way, paved with their good intentions.
Bah!
We've watched many of Micheal Portillo's train programmes, first the
UK ones, then the Asian ones, which I particularly enjoyed, and now
we're back in the UK. I think the US is next.
krw
2020-03-08 23:08:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by SODAM
Post by Joe Kerr
Most interesting. Thank you.
I agree completely. This thread turned from an idle request for a train’s
name into a most instructive history of the train services run by our
shambolic, ignorant and vainglorious masters. The new high speed train
continues down the same way, paved with their good intentions.
Bah!
We've watched many of Micheal Portillo's train programmes, first the
UK ones, then the Asian ones, which I particularly enjoyed, and now
we're back in the UK. I think the US is next.
India and the US were done some time ago. Australia was covered recently.
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
Chris McMillan
2020-03-09 19:16:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Joe Kerr
Most interesting. Thank you.
I agree completely. This thread turned from an idle request for a train’s
name into a most instructive history of the train services run by our
shambolic, ignorant and vainglorious masters. The new high speed train
continues down the same way, paved with their good intentions.
Bah!
We've watched many of Micheal Portillo's train programmes, first the
UK ones, then the Asian ones, which I particularly enjoyed, and now
we're back in the UK. I think the US is next.
The US is a repeat, last year, Vicky, despite what the details say.

Sincerely Chris
Vicky Ayech
2020-03-09 21:22:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Mon, 09 Mar 2020 19:16:25 GMT, Chris McMillan
Post by Chris McMillan
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Joe Kerr
Most interesting. Thank you.
I agree completely. This thread turned from an idle request for a train?s
name into a most instructive history of the train services run by our
shambolic, ignorant and vainglorious masters. The new high speed train
continues down the same way, paved with their good intentions.
Bah!
We've watched many of Micheal Portillo's train programmes, first the
UK ones, then the Asian ones, which I particularly enjoyed, and now
we're back in the UK. I think the US is next.
The US is a repeat, last year, Vicky, despite what the details say.
Sincerely Chris
It was Alaska and Canada and then US so far. Very good.
krw
2020-03-08 23:08:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by SODAM
The new high speed train
continues down the same way, paved with their good intentions.
If we simply regard it as an additional railway built to modern
standards which will allow long distance trains to run without
intermediate stops and thereby allow more local trains to run it will
provide a massive increase in overall route capacity at a cost effective
price which cannot be provided by other means given that there is no
indication, short of coronavirus, that people are actually going to
cease travelling and will eventually and sensibly be priced off road travel.
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
krw
2020-03-04 14:54:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Joe Kerr
Post by Clive Arthur
<snip>
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Thanks for the explanation; interesting. (So, in effect, they _are_
carrying around Diesel equipment all the time.) I assume you mean
those Diesel generators are capable of generating enough to actually
power the "engines" at the end of the train - in other words, it's a
"hybrid", or (since it doesn't include batteries, which as you point
out are totally impractical) "duel-'fuel'" system.
Or do those "carriages" also have (electric) drive motors too, i. e.
could move on their own? I presume not.
Yes, the generators generate enough for the engines, and no, the
carriages don't have their own motors.
Paddington to Penzance, a personal favourite, goes electric overhead
to Newbury where the wires run out and thence generators.  I have
listened, but can't hear any change.
Just out of curiosity, as we are on the subject of powering trains: Has
anybody ever built a steam engine fueled by oil or anything else other
than coal/wood or similar? I would have thought it would be more
practical than coal and retain the character of a "real" loco but I
expect that it would be too inefficient compared with a true diesel engine.
Yes in 1947 the Government requested that all steam engines be
converted, so a number were done and fuel tanks installed etc. Then the
Treasury realised that it would cost oodles in foreign exchange and most
were scrapped.
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
Joe Kerr
2020-03-05 15:50:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On 4/3/20 14:20, Joe Kerr wrote;
Has anybody ever built a steam engine fueled by oil or anything else
other than coal/wood or similar? I would have thought it would be more
practical than coal and retain the character of a "real" loco but I
expect that it would be too inefficient compared with a true diesel engine.
Yes in 1947 the Government requested that all steam engines be
converted, so a number were done and fuel tanks installed etc.  Then the
Treasury realised that it would cost oodles in foreign exchange and most
were scrapped.
Never heard that before, obviously. Interesting.
--
Ric
Chris McMillan
2020-03-04 16:56:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Joe Kerr
Post by Clive Arthur
<snip>
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Thanks for the explanation; interesting. (So, in effect, they _are_
carrying around Diesel equipment all the time.) I assume you mean
those Diesel generators are capable of generating enough to actually
power the "engines" at the end of the train - in other words, it's a
"hybrid", or (since it doesn't include batteries, which as you point
out are totally impractical) "duel-'fuel'" system.
Or do those "carriages" also have (electric) drive motors too, i. e.
could move on their own? I presume not.
Yes, the generators generate enough for the engines, and no, the
carriages don't have their own motors.
Paddington to Penzance, a personal favourite, goes electric overhead to
Newbury where the wires run out and thence generators.  I have listened,
but can't hear any change.
Just out of curiosity, as we are on the subject of powering trains: Has
anybody ever built a steam engine fueled by oil or anything else other
than coal/wood or similar? I would have thought it would be more
practical than coal and retain the character of a "real" loco but I
expect that it would be too inefficient compared with a true diesel engine.
Don’t know if KRW reads “Steam Railway” but there has been efforts to find
an acceptable alternative since its believed domestic coal will be banned
from next year. Do far, nothing has come near enough perfect for the
engine, the environment and the public.

Sincerely Chris
steveski
2020-03-04 19:31:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 04 Mar 2020 16:56:43 +0000, Chris McMillan wrote:

[]
Post by Chris McMillan
Don’t know if KRW reads “Steam Railway”
Ooh, ooh, me sir, I do sir! :-)
--
Steveski
Chris McMillan
2020-03-05 11:31:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by steveski
[]
Post by Chris McMillan
Don’t know if KRW reads “Steam Railway”
Ooh, ooh, me sir, I do sir! :-)
Then you’ll know (and can remember more than I can, no doubt). Latest
edition arrived this morning.

Sincerely Chris
steveski
2020-03-05 12:23:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Chris McMillan
Post by steveski
[]
Post by Chris McMillan
Don’t know if KRW reads “Steam Railway”
Ooh, ooh, me sir, I do sir! :-)
Then you’ll know (and can remember more than I can, no doubt). Latest
edition arrived this morning.
I won't be able to get mine until tomorrow because my local newsagent
always get their copies a day late and blame it on WH Smiths. Still, it
ain't no thang.
--
Steveski
Chris McMillan
2020-03-09 18:52:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by steveski
Post by Chris McMillan
Post by steveski
[]
Post by Chris McMillan
Don’t know if KRW reads “Steam Railway”
Ooh, ooh, me sir, I do sir! :-)
Then you’ll know (and can remember more than I can, no doubt). Latest
edition arrived this morning.
I won't be able to get mine until tomorrow because my local newsagent
always get their copies a day late and blame it on WH Smiths. Still, it
ain't no thang.
Mine’s a postal sub

Sincerely Chris
krw
2020-03-05 13:11:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Chris McMillan
Don’t know if KRW reads “Steam Railway” but there has been efforts to find
an acceptable alternative since its believed domestic coal will be banned
from next year. Do far, nothing has come near enough perfect for the
engine, the environment and the public.
I do. According to the government it is not a problem because they are
not banning coal for steam engines only houses. The coal for steam
engines comes from the same deposits as housing coal. If you ban the
latter the former becomes uneconomic.
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
Penny
2020-03-05 16:18:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 5 Mar 2020 13:11:26 +0000, krw <***@whitnet.uk> scrawled in the
dust...
Post by krw
Post by Chris McMillan
Don’t know if KRW reads “Steam Railway” but there has been efforts to find
an acceptable alternative since its believed domestic coal will be banned
from next year. Do far, nothing has come near enough perfect for the
engine, the environment and the public.
I do. According to the government it is not a problem because they are
not banning coal for steam engines only houses. The coal for steam
engines comes from the same deposits as housing coal. If you ban the
latter the former becomes uneconomic.
That sounds like bad news for Mr Owen the coal merchant on the old
bicycle/munitions factory site here - and for his domestic customers. Maybe
good news for Mr Bowen the oil distributor though, at least for a while.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Phil
2020-03-04 18:22:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Joe Kerr
Just out of curiosity, as we are on the subject of powering trains: Has
anybody ever built a steam engine fueled by oil or anything else other
than coal/wood or similar? I would have thought it would be more
practical than coal and retain the character of a "real" loco but I
expect that it would be too inefficient compared with a true diesel engine.
I've travelled on the footplate of an oil-fired steam engine in Romania.
This had a small coal fire, and they turned on the oil when they
needed more oomph.

And (I think it was during the second world war) the Swiss fitted a
giant kettle element to a steam engine to run it off electricity.
--
Phil
Liverpool, UK
Nick Odell
2020-03-04 18:49:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Joe Kerr
Post by Clive Arthur
<snip>
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Thanks for the explanation; interesting. (So, in effect, they _are_
carrying around Diesel equipment all the time.) I assume you mean
those Diesel generators are capable of generating enough to actually
power the "engines" at the end of the train - in other words, it's a
"hybrid", or (since it doesn't include batteries, which as you point
out are totally impractical) "duel-'fuel'" system.
Or do those "carriages" also have (electric) drive motors too, i. e.
could move on their own? I presume not.
Yes, the generators generate enough for the engines, and no, the
carriages don't have their own motors.
Paddington to Penzance, a personal favourite, goes electric overhead to
Newbury where the wires run out and thence generators.  I have listened,
but can't hear any change.
Just out of curiosity, as we are on the subject of powering trains: Has
anybody ever built a steam engine fueled by oil or anything else other
than coal/wood or similar? I would have thought it would be more
practical than coal and retain the character of a "real" loco but I
expect that it would be too inefficient compared with a true diesel engine.
Just to add to what's already been written, when I visited the
workshops of El Tren del Fin del Mundo, they were building some new
locomotives from scratch and they were oil burners.

Nick
krw
2020-03-04 14:53:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
I have listened, but can't hear any change.
The acceleration drops dramatically and the noise increases - but it
depends where you are sitting.
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
Nick Leverton
2020-03-04 16:11:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Clive Arthur
<snip>
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Thanks for the explanation; interesting. (So, in effect, they _are_
carrying around Diesel equipment all the time.) I assume you mean those
Diesel generators are capable of generating enough to actually power the
"engines" at the end of the train - in other words, it's a "hybrid", or
(since it doesn't include batteries, which as you point out are totally
impractical) "duel-'fuel'" system.
Or do those "carriages" also have (electric) drive motors too, i. e.
could move on their own? I presume not.
Yes, the generators generate enough for the engines, and no, the
carriages don't have their own motors.
I gather they're pretty quiet, but AIUI many of the carriages do have
their own motors, in fact. On the five-car units, the central three cars
are the motored ones (the same that have the diesel engine). On the
nine-car sets, it's five of the seven intermediate cars. What they
don't have is control systems, so they couldn't be moved individually
apart from the whole train.

The driving vehicles at the ends of each unit are non-powered trailers,
but have the pantographs for electric pickup, and the controls.

Nick
--
"The Internet, a sort of ersatz counterfeit of real life"
-- Janet Street-Porter, BBC2, 19th March 1996
Clive Arthur
2020-03-04 16:38:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Nick Leverton
Post by Clive Arthur
<snip>
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Thanks for the explanation; interesting. (So, in effect, they _are_
carrying around Diesel equipment all the time.) I assume you mean those
Diesel generators are capable of generating enough to actually power the
"engines" at the end of the train - in other words, it's a "hybrid", or
(since it doesn't include batteries, which as you point out are totally
impractical) "duel-'fuel'" system.
Or do those "carriages" also have (electric) drive motors too, i. e.
could move on their own? I presume not.
Yes, the generators generate enough for the engines, and no, the
carriages don't have their own motors.
I gather they're pretty quiet, but AIUI many of the carriages do have
their own motors, in fact. On the five-car units, the central three cars
are the motored ones (the same that have the diesel engine). On the
nine-car sets, it's five of the seven intermediate cars. What they
don't have is control systems, so they couldn't be moved individually
apart from the whole train.
The driving vehicles at the ends of each unit are non-powered trailers,
but have the pantographs for electric pickup, and the controls.
Nick
You're quite right of course, I had misunderstood an article I read.
So, most carriages have generators and motors, the ends don't and
sometimes a carriage doesn't?
--
Cheers
Clive
Nick Leverton
2020-03-04 16:58:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Clive Arthur
Post by Nick Leverton
I gather they're pretty quiet, but AIUI many of the carriages do have
their own motors, in fact. On the five-car units, the central three cars
are the motored ones (the same that have the diesel engine). On the
nine-car sets, it's five of the seven intermediate cars. What they
don't have is control systems, so they couldn't be moved individually
apart from the whole train.
The driving vehicles at the ends of each unit are non-powered trailers,
but have the pantographs for electric pickup, and the controls.
Nick
You're quite right of course, I had misunderstood an article I read.
So, most carriages have generators and motors, the ends don't and
sometimes a carriage doesn't?
That's basically it. And to confuse things further, some of these
dual-mode IEP trains have only one or two engine+generators, just to be
able to limp out of trouble, others have enough engines to power the
whole unit at full speed. Unless they're contractually operating at
reduced power, in order to save the DfT money, in which case they can't
achieve full speed in diesel mode.

It's all rather confusing really. But what does one expect from trains
specified by civil servants ? I think the rail industry collectively did
quite well in beating their ideas into something deliverable and workable.
Just a shame they were so fixated on diesel bi-modes, if they'd started
electrifying in earnest at the beginning we'd have most major routes
fully covered by now, and considerably cheaper trains.

Nick
--
"The Internet, a sort of ersatz counterfeit of real life"
-- Janet Street-Porter, BBC2, 19th March 1996
krw
2020-03-05 13:13:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Nick Leverton
considerably cheaper trains.
Which are inherently more reliable because there is less to maintain so
you build less of them.
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
Chris J Dixon
2020-03-04 16:50:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Clive Arthur
Yes, the generators generate enough for the engines, and no, the
carriages don't have their own motors.
It is a complete fiasco, but I think we should strive to get the
terminology right.

The devices fitted on the bogies under the carriages are electric
motors.

When not being fed from overhead electrification, the power is
being produced by diesel engines.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham
'48/33 M B+ G++ A L(-) I S-- CH0(--)(p) Ar- T+ H0 ?Q
***@cdixon.me.uk @ChrisJDixon1
Plant amazing Acers.
krw
2020-03-04 14:52:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by SODAM
Post by krw
Decent cup of tea - only in comparison with the tea served in the HHGTTG
On time or earlier - highly unlikely as Network Rail was not allowed to
install the electricity supplies so they are running on diesel even
though they are electric trains.
Electric trains running on diesel? This is madness. I thought the
Government owned Network rail. Who on earth disallowed them from installing
the electricity supply?
I wondered about that. Does it mean that the engines are capable of
running on Diesel - i. e. they carry around a Diesel engine all the time
- or they're using a Diesel engine _in place of_ the electric one?
Yes if there is not enough electricity.
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
Nick Leverton
2020-03-04 09:12:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by SODAM
.
Post by krw
Wifi - possibly
Smoked salmon sandwiches - not a hope
Champagne, buffet - you must be on another planet
Decent cup of tea - only in comparison with the tea served in the HHGTTG
On time or earlier - highly unlikely as Network Rail was not allowed to
install the electricity supplies so they are running on diesel even
though they are electric trains.
Electric trains running on diesel? This is madness. I thought the
Government owned Network rail. Who on earth disallowed them from installing
the electricity supply?
The Department for F'd Up Transport did. They cancelled all planned
electrification schemes a few years ago in a panic at how much it had cost
to get the first major new scheme going, after a multi-decade standstill
during which all electrification skills and experience had been lost.

Electrification is off the agenda, bionic duckweed and batteries are on.
Good luck with finding a big enough battery to haul 400 tons for 400
miles at 100 mph. So the DfT is making franchisees order diesel or
mixed-mode trains instead, so as to pump out more particulates and CO2
for the next 40 years.

Civil servants should not be allowed to play trains, unfortunately they
are getting even more to play with now due to the cockups those same
civil servants have repeatedly made of contracting others to do it.

Nick
--
"The Internet, a sort of ersatz counterfeit of real life"
-- Janet Street-Porter, BBC2, 19th March 1996
krw
2020-03-04 14:55:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Nick Leverton
Post by SODAM
.
Post by krw
Wifi - possibly
Smoked salmon sandwiches - not a hope
Champagne, buffet - you must be on another planet
Decent cup of tea - only in comparison with the tea served in the HHGTTG
On time or earlier - highly unlikely as Network Rail was not allowed to
install the electricity supplies so they are running on diesel even
though they are electric trains.
Electric trains running on diesel? This is madness. I thought the
Government owned Network rail. Who on earth disallowed them from installing
the electricity supply?
The Department for F'd Up Transport did. They cancelled all planned
electrification schemes a few years ago in a panic at how much it had cost
to get the first major new scheme going, after a multi-decade standstill
during which all electrification skills and experience had been lost.
Electrification is off the agenda, bionic duckweed and batteries are on.
Good luck with finding a big enough battery to haul 400 tons for 400
miles at 100 mph. So the DfT is making franchisees order diesel or
mixed-mode trains instead, so as to pump out more particulates and CO2
for the next 40 years.
Civil servants should not be allowed to play trains, unfortunately they
are getting even more to play with now due to the cockups those same
civil servants have repeatedly made of contracting others to do it.
Nick
For bionic duckweed apparently the solution is hydrogen. Or batteries.
Both of which have weight and performance penalties.
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
Nick Leverton
2020-03-04 15:10:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by krw
Post by Nick Leverton
Post by SODAM
Electric trains running on diesel? This is madness. I thought the
Government owned Network rail. Who on earth disallowed them from installing
the electricity supply?
The Department for F'd Up Transport did. They cancelled all planned
electrification schemes a few years ago in a panic at how much it had cost
to get the first major new scheme going, after a multi-decade standstill
during which all electrification skills and experience had been lost.
Electrification is off the agenda, bionic duckweed and batteries are on.
Good luck with finding a big enough battery to haul 400 tons for 400
miles at 100 mph. So the DfT is making franchisees order diesel or
mixed-mode trains instead, so as to pump out more particulates and CO2
for the next 40 years.
Civil servants should not be allowed to play trains, unfortunately they
are getting even more to play with now due to the cockups those same
civil servants have repeatedly made of contracting others to do it.
Nick
For bionic duckweed apparently the solution is hydrogen. Or batteries.
... or in fact anything which will let the DfFT kick decisions into the
far future, and avoid having to admit that electricity generated in
high-efficency renewable sources elsewhere and fed via wires is the only
cheap, efficient, proven, here-and-now method of propulsion.

Nick
--
"The Internet, a sort of ersatz counterfeit of real life"
-- Janet Street-Porter, BBC2, 19th March 1996
Chris J Dixon
2020-03-04 16:56:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Nick Leverton
The Department for F'd Up Transport did. They cancelled all planned
electrification schemes a few years ago in a panic at how much it had cost
to get the first major new scheme going, after a multi-decade standstill
during which all electrification skills and experience had been lost.
Oddly, having paused the MML electrification, and pulled out of
some sites where preparatory work had started, they later resumed
bridge lifting at an expense one can only imagine.
Post by Nick Leverton
Civil servants should not be allowed to play trains, unfortunately they
are getting even more to play with now due to the cockups those same
civil servants have repeatedly made of contracting others to do it.
However, the Operator of Last Resort will be free of the
pointless and unhelpful limitations that were laid down in the
franchise agreements. One rule for them...

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham
'48/33 M B+ G++ A L(-) I S-- CH0(--)(p) Ar- T+ H0 ?Q
***@cdixon.me.uk @ChrisJDixon1
Plant amazing Acers.
krw
2020-03-05 13:14:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Chris J Dixon
However, the Operator of Last Resort will be free of the
pointless and unhelpful limitations that were laid down in the
franchise agreements. One rule for them...
Does not solve the disconnect with Network Rail because of course both
of them are owned by the DfT.

If only someone thought that having common owners meant co-operation.
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
krw
2020-03-04 14:52:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by SODAM
..
Post by krw
Wifi - possibly
Smoked salmon sandwiches - not a hope
Champagne, buffet - you must be on another planet
Decent cup of tea - only in comparison with the tea served in the HHGTTG
On time or earlier - highly unlikely as Network Rail was not allowed to
install the electricity supplies so they are running on diesel even
though they are electric trains.
Electric trains running on diesel? This is madness. I thought the
Government owned Network rail. Who on earth disallowed them from installing
the electricity supply?
Remember this is the D(a)fT people. They have ruled no diesels to run
after 2040 but continue buying diesels now which will last 40 years - so
no-one is prepared to buy trains to be scrapped after 20 years. How
much more nonsense did Grayling impose? Oh yes - new Oxbridge line but
it will be for diesel trains as it would be too expensive to build it
large enough for electrics.
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
Chris McMillan
2020-03-04 16:53:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by SODAM
Post by krw
Post by SODAM
While in the park with Bingo yesterday, I saw several new trains pass by on
the adjacent main East Coast line. I haven’t seen such trains before. Their
livery was silver and ice blue and they were pointy at both ends ( hope
this isn’t too technical).
What would they be, please, train buffs?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_800
LNER go help us before it was nationalised decided to call them Azuma
for no earthly reason. God's Worst railway has some similar lumps of
crap in green.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_700
Another DfT specified lump of crap for commuters.
If you are somewhere up North you might be seeing Trans Pennine Express
class 802
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_802
(Scroll down to the TPE section for a photo).
These are going to fix the transport problems in the north and are blue
and silver.
That’s the thing! Class 802. They look wonderfully elegant in motion and I
love the colours. I imagine they will have WiFi everywhere, smoked salmon
sandwiches and champagne in the buffet (or even just a decent cup of tea)
and always arrive either on time or earlier. <contented sigh>
On yet bike and in yer dreams, Bingo!

Sincerely Chris
Chris McMillan
2020-03-04 16:53:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by krw
Post by SODAM
While in the park with Bingo yesterday, I saw several new trains pass by on
the adjacent main East Coast line. I haven’t seen such trains before. Their
livery was silver and ice blue and they were pointy at both ends ( hope
this isn’t too technical).
What would they be, please, train buffs?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_800
LNER go help us before it was nationalised decided to call them Azuma
for no earthly reason. God's Worst railway has some similar lumps of
crap in green.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_700
Another DfT specified lump of crap for commuters.
If you are somewhere up North you might be seeing Trans Pennine Express
class 802
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_802
(Scroll down to the TPE section for a photo).
These are going to fix the transport problems in the north and are blue
and silver.
Thanks KRW. They gave us platforms to make our beloved HST fit, now
they’ve taken away the no gap with all the new trains. Why did they bother
rebuilding Reading’s platforms? Likewise Oxford, the Worcester bound
trains were the ‘right height’, Cross Country aren’t. Might become
desperate enough for a stopper one day to try it out.

Not a very happy travelling bunny!

And every bunny on SW trains has lost his burrow and his food till it all
grows again. Absolutely bare of everything edible.

Sincerely Chris
krw
2020-03-05 13:00:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Chris McMillan
Thanks KRW. They gave us platforms to make our beloved HST fit, now
they’ve taken away the no gap with all the new trains. Why did they bother
rebuilding Reading’s platforms?
Easy.

DfT own NR whos specified the new platforms.
DfT specified the IETs which now run into and out of Reading station.

Two different sets of people. Not the GWR who owned and operated
everything. Rutnam was in charge when these decisions were taken and
quite simply he did not understand it.
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
Chris McMillan
2020-03-09 18:52:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by krw
Post by Chris McMillan
Thanks KRW. They gave us platforms to make our beloved HST fit, now
they’ve taken away the no gap with all the new trains. Why did they bother
rebuilding Reading’s platforms?
Easy.
DfT own NR whos specified the new platforms.
DfT specified the IETs which now run into and out of Reading station.
Two different sets of people. Not the GWR who owned and operated
everything. Rutnam was in charge when these decisions were taken and
quite simply he did not understand it.
Good way to waste loads of dosh

Sincerely Chris
Clive Arthur
2020-03-03 15:50:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by SODAM
While in the park with Bingo yesterday, I saw several new trains pass by on
the adjacent main East Coast line. I haven’t seen such trains before. Their
livery was silver and ice blue and they were pointy at both ends ( hope
this isn’t too technical).
What would they be, please, train buffs?
These are special quarantine trains for taking the infected to former
cold-war bunkers at several sites around the country.
--
Cheers
Clive
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