Discussion:
OT: Thanks BBC
(too old to reply)
BrritSki
2021-05-09 11:42:02 UTC
Permalink
We are currently enjoying the hilarious [1] new R4 series "Nature Table"
and I am moved to thank the BBC for their enormous contribution to
yesterday's election results.

The relentless parade of metropolitan woke nonsense and promotion of
values that are utterly alien to vast swathes of the population has only
helped the more sensible parties. Continuing to fret about Brexit (most
notably evident in the recent news coverage of the Jersey fishing
dispute which was very pro-French without thinking to ask why less than
1/3rd of the fishermen were unable to prove that they fished there
regularly when records of where fishermen have been fishing is a
requirement of their beloved EU) just pisses off the 52% Leave voters
plus a hefty proportion of those who voted Remain but were able to
accept the result and move on.

There is a downside of course in that they continue to terrify people
with coverage of the terrible events in India with no context, plus
constant wailing about scary "variants".

There is also the problem of encouraging the SNP, not least by giving
Sturgeon a daily Party Political platform on major channels. This
exposure is of enormous value, even if she'd stuck to talk about COVID
which of course she didn't.

So despite this, and despite the continuing disaster that is The
Archers, thanks BBC, please keep it up.

[1] for infinitesimally small values of enjoy and hilarious.
krw
2021-05-09 13:46:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by BrritSki
There is also the problem of encouraging the SNP, not least by giving
Sturgeon a daily Party Political platform on major channels. This
exposure is of enormous value, even if she'd stuck to talk about COVID
which of course she didn't.
Apparently the politicians have realised that they gave away Scotland
when they used the wrong legislation to lock us up. If they had
(correctly) used UK Emergency powers then Ms Sturgeon would have been
kept in her box. Because they wrongly used Health powers which were
never meant to be used for national emergencies and health is devolved
she got to go on tv everyday and appear to be a statesman. They won't
make that mistake again.
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
steve hague
2021-05-10 11:54:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by BrritSki
We are currently enjoying the hilarious [1] new R4 series "Nature Table"
and I am moved to thank the BBC for their enormous contribution to
yesterday's election results.
The relentless parade of metropolitan woke nonsense and promotion of
values that are utterly alien to vast swathes of the population has only
helped the more sensible parties. Continuing to fret about Brexit (most
notably evident in the recent news coverage of the Jersey fishing
dispute which was very pro-French without thinking to ask why less than
1/3rd of the fishermen were unable to prove that they fished there
regularly when records of where fishermen have been fishing is a
requirement of their beloved EU) just pisses off the 52% Leave voters
plus a hefty proportion of those who voted Remain but were able to
accept the result and move on.
There is a downside of course in that they continue to terrify people
with coverage of the terrible events in India with no context, plus
constant wailing about scary "variants".
There is also the problem of encouraging the SNP, not least by giving
Sturgeon a daily Party Political platform on major channels. This
exposure is of enormous value, even if she'd stuck to talk about COVID
which of course she didn't.
So despite this, and despite the continuing disaster that is The
Archers, thanks BBC, please keep it up.
[1] for infinitesimally small values of enjoy and hilarious.
Even Call the Midwife has become subject to the BBC's woke principles.
They're imposing their values on mid 60s life, much to the detriment of
the scriptwriting.
Steve
Vicky Ayech
2021-05-10 12:04:42 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 10 May 2021 12:54:31 +0100, steve hague
Post by steve hague
Even Call the Midwife has become subject to the BBC's woke principles.
They're imposing their values on mid 60s life, much to the detriment of
the scriptwriting.
Steve
We watch that and there is a definite point when the whole thing
deteriorates. It is when they no longer use the books as a base. It's
when it is now the original author's experiences and they began
tofocus on issues, rather like TA and had some very stupid episodes,
like the one on a Scottish island.
Vicky Ayech
2021-05-10 12:05:32 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 10 May 2021 13:04:42 +0100, Vicky Ayech
Post by Vicky Ayech
On Mon, 10 May 2021 12:54:31 +0100, steve hague
Post by steve hague
Even Call the Midwife has become subject to the BBC's woke principles.
They're imposing their values on mid 60s life, much to the detriment of
the scriptwriting.
Steve
We watch that and there is a definite point when the whole thing
deteriorates. It is when they no longer use the books as a base. It's
when it is now the original author's experiences and they began
tofocus on issues, rather like TA and had some very stupid episodes,
like the one on a Scottish island.
now/not not the original author's writing
krw
2021-05-10 13:17:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by steve hague
Even Call the Midwife has become subject to the BBC's woke principles.
They're imposing their values on mid 60s life, much to the detriment of
the scriptwriting.
If you want another interesting comparison I would recommend "All
Creatures Great and Small". The original books were theoretically set
pre-war, although the vet in question qualified post-war. The BBC made
an excellent version in 70-90s (not quite sure) which were fairly
accurate reflections of what was written. Recently Channel 5 has been
showing a completely new version which has all sorts of new thinking (eg
the vet's wife is a woman farmer). I believe the BBC versions have been
shown in the recent past but I am not sure where if you want to do the
comparison.
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2021-05-10 17:58:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by krw
Post by steve hague
Even Call the Midwife has become subject to the BBC's woke
principles. They're imposing their values on mid 60s life, much to
the detriment of the scriptwriting.
If you want another interesting comparison I would recommend "All
Creatures Great and Small". The original books were theoretically set
pre-war, although the vet in question qualified post-war. The BBC made
an excellent version in 70-90s (not quite sure) which were fairly
accurate reflections of what was written. Recently Channel 5 has been
showing a completely new version which has all sorts of new thinking
(eg the vet's wife is a woman farmer). I believe the BBC versions have
been shown in the recent past but I am not sure where if you want to do
the comparison.
BBC4; this week's (series 1 episode 12 of 13) is at 8:10 on Thursday.
Definitely worth a look. (If only for the startling shifts in colour
balance between indoor and outdoor scenes, which have prompted much
discussion on uk.tech.broadcast!)

In the new series, the actor playing Siegfried, though appearing very
young (I think it's Sam West, son of Timothy) is the same age as Robert
Hardy was when the original series started: yes, it was a LONG time ago.
Definitely '70s. (I remember our school chaplain - Sunday evensong was
optional - saying he hoped to see some more "creatures great and small"
in attendance! [I don't think he succeeded.])
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

I remember a lot of questions on a vocalist forum about the problems singing
"There is a balm in Gilead" without making it sound like a security alert. -
Linda Fox in UMRA, 2010-11-19
John Ashby
2021-05-10 14:08:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by steve hague
Post by BrritSki
We are currently enjoying the hilarious [1] new R4 series "Nature
Table" and I am moved to thank the BBC for their enormous contribution
to yesterday's election results.
The relentless parade of metropolitan woke nonsense and promotion of
values that are utterly alien to vast swathes of the population has
only helped the more sensible parties. Continuing to fret about Brexit
(most notably evident in the recent news coverage of the Jersey
fishing dispute which was very pro-French without thinking to ask why
less than 1/3rd of the fishermen were unable to prove that they fished
there regularly when records of where fishermen have been fishing is a
requirement of their beloved EU) just pisses off the 52% Leave voters
plus a hefty proportion of those who voted Remain but were able to
accept the result and move on.
There is a downside of course in that they continue to terrify people
with coverage of the terrible events in India with no context, plus
constant wailing about scary "variants".
There is also the problem of encouraging the SNP, not least by giving
Sturgeon a daily Party Political platform on major channels. This
exposure is of enormous value, even if she'd stuck to talk about COVID
which of course she didn't.
So despite this, and despite the continuing disaster that is The
Archers, thanks BBC, please keep it up.
[1] for infinitesimally small values of enjoy and hilarious.
Even Call the Midwife has become subject to the BBC's woke principles.
They're imposing their values on mid 60s life, much to the detriment of
the scriptwriting.
Steve
Are you sure the values you are thinking of were so out of line with
those of the 60s? I'm going to make a guess that you are particularly
referring to lastnight's episode where homosexuality was given a
balanced treatment with discussion of the legal status, the use of
aversion therapy (and chemical castration) to "treat" it, but also
tolerance and acceptance from the character's family. Given that the UK
was only a year away from legalising homosexuality (c.f. abortion the
week before) it seems entirely reasonable that there would have been a
wide variety of attitudes.

The trick the scriptwriters missed was to examine where the liberal
attitudes you characterise as "woke" came from. In the case of the young
queer's (gay was not yet in use) father, he was an undertaker and as
such would have buried all sorts of people including some in long-term
committed same-sex relationships, and seen first hand love in action.

It may be, since there was no reason for the father's profession that
this idea was in the script originally and ended up on the cutting room
floor.

And I'd remind you of the old joke: What do you call a man who loves
another man? A Christian.

john
steve hague
2021-05-10 15:08:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Ashby
Post by steve hague
Even Call the Midwife has become subject to the BBC's woke principles.
They're imposing their values on mid 60s life, much to the detriment
of the scriptwriting.
Steve
Are you sure the values you are thinking of were so out of line with
those of the 60s? I'm going to make a guess that you are particularly
referring to lastnight's episode where homosexuality was given a
balanced treatment with discussion of the legal status, the use of
aversion therapy (and chemical castration) to "treat" it, but also
tolerance and acceptance from the character's family. Given that the UK
was only a year away from legalising homosexuality (c.f. abortion the
week before) it seems entirely reasonable that there would have been a
wide variety of attitudes.
The trick the scriptwriters missed was to examine where the liberal
attitudes you characterise as "woke" came from. In the case of the young
queer's (gay was not yet in use) father, he was an undertaker and as
such would have buried all sorts of people including some in long-term
committed same-sex relationships, and seen first hand love in action.
It may be, since there was no reason for the father's profession that
this idea was in the script originally and ended up on the cutting room
floor.
And I'd remind you of the old joke: What do you call a man who loves
another man? A Christian.
john
I'm not suggesting it was right to vilify homosexuals, just that it was
not unusual in 1966, and certainly Dr Turner's reaction was that of a
doctor of a much later time. Some of the terms used were anachronistic,
but that's not too unusual on CtM. There's still much to like about the
programme, but I wish the BBC would respect the fact that their values
are not the same as those of most people in the mid 60s.
Steve
Penny
2021-05-10 15:29:57 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 10 May 2021 16:08:48 +0100, steve hague <***@gmail.com>
scrawled in the dust...
Post by steve hague
I wish the BBC would respect the fact that their values
are not the same as those of most people in the mid 60s.
Do you feel the same about the 2020s?
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
steve hague
2021-05-10 16:08:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by steve hague
I wish the BBC would respect the fact that their values
are not the same as those of most people in the mid 60s.
Do you feel the same about the 2020s?
😁
Penny
2021-05-10 20:57:10 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 10 May 2021 17:08:57 +0100, steve hague <***@gmail.com>
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by steve hague
I wish the BBC would respect the fact that their values
are not the same as those of most people in the mid 60s.
Do you feel the same about the 2020s?
?
What is it that you don't understand?

I realise I live in my own little bubble but I do listen to and watch a
fair amount of BBC content and from most of that I hear people whose
general view on the world, its politics and people, is similar to my own.
Possibly other views are expressed in programmes I don't pay any attention
to.

From results in elections this century, I know there are a great many
people around the world who do not hold the same views and values as I do.
Maybe the BBC does show respect to the views of all those other people and
I've just managed to avoid it?
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
steve hague
2021-05-11 05:56:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by steve hague
I wish the BBC would respect the fact that their values
are not the same as those of most people in the mid 60s.
Do you feel the same about the 2020s?
?
What is it that you don't understand?
I realise I live in my own little bubble but I do listen to and watch a
fair amount of BBC content and from most of that I hear people whose
general view on the world, its politics and people, is similar to my own.
Possibly other views are expressed in programmes I don't pay any attention
to.
From results in elections this century, I know there are a great many
people around the world who do not hold the same views and values as I do.
Maybe the BBC does show respect to the views of all those other people and
I've just managed to avoid it?
I did understand. I put a smiley emoji and you seem to have received a
question mark.
Penny
2021-05-11 07:31:08 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 11 May 2021 06:56:22 +0100, steve hague <***@gmail.com>
scrawled in the dust...
Post by steve hague
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by steve hague
I wish the BBC would respect the fact that their values
are not the same as those of most people in the mid 60s.
Do you feel the same about the 2020s?
?
What is it that you don't understand?
I realise I live in my own little bubble but I do listen to and watch a
fair amount of BBC content and from most of that I hear people whose
general view on the world, its politics and people, is similar to my own.
Possibly other views are expressed in programmes I don't pay any attention
to.
From results in elections this century, I know there are a great many
people around the world who do not hold the same views and values as I do.
Maybe the BBC does show respect to the views of all those other people and
I've just managed to avoid it?
I did understand. I put a smiley emoji and you seem to have received a
question mark.
Oh, do graphic emojis work anywhere on usenet?
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
steve hague
2021-05-11 08:02:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by steve hague
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by steve hague
I wish the BBC would respect the fact that their values
are not the same as those of most people in the mid 60s.
Do you feel the same about the 2020s?
?
What is it that you don't understand?
I realise I live in my own little bubble but I do listen to and watch a
fair amount of BBC content and from most of that I hear people whose
general view on the world, its politics and people, is similar to my own.
Possibly other views are expressed in programmes I don't pay any attention
to.
From results in elections this century, I know there are a great many
people around the world who do not hold the same views and values as I do.
Maybe the BBC does show respect to the views of all those other people and
I've just managed to avoid it?
I did understand. I put a smiley emoji and you seem to have received a
question mark.
Oh, do graphic emojis work anywhere on usenet?
I get them.
Mike McMillan
2021-05-11 08:15:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by steve hague
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by steve hague
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by steve hague
I wish the BBC would respect the fact that their values
are not the same as those of most people in the mid 60s.
Do you feel the same about the 2020s?
?
What is it that you don't understand?
I realise I live in my own little bubble but I do listen to and watch a
fair amount of BBC content and from most of that I hear people whose
general view on the world, its politics and people, is similar to my own.
Possibly other views are expressed in programmes I don't pay any attention
to.
From results in elections this century, I know there are a great many
people around the world who do not hold the same views and values as I do.
Maybe the BBC does show respect to the views of all those other people and
I've just managed to avoid it?
I did understand. I put a smiley emoji and you seem to have received a
question mark.
Oh, do graphic emojis work anywhere on usenet?
I get them.
I’m told you can get a cream for those…
--
Toodle Pip (My other iPad is an old Pro)
Nick Odell
2021-05-11 08:05:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by steve hague
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by steve hague
I wish the BBC would respect the fact that their values
are not the same as those of most people in the mid 60s.
Do you feel the same about the 2020s?
?
What is it that you don't understand?
I realise I live in my own little bubble but I do listen to and watch a
fair amount of BBC content and from most of that I hear people whose
general view on the world, its politics and people, is similar to my own.
Possibly other views are expressed in programmes I don't pay any attention
to.
From results in elections this century, I know there are a great many
people around the world who do not hold the same views and values as I do.
Maybe the BBC does show respect to the views of all those other people and
I've just managed to avoid it?
I did understand. I put a smiley emoji and you seem to have received a
question mark.
Oh, do graphic emojis work anywhere on usenet?
I think the answer to that is probably "it depends."

I believe that Steve's UTF-8 encoding goes beyond the usenet standard
but many usenet newsreaders can cope. (Yours and mine can't - but you
know that already.)

I admit to having been confused too: usually when there's an
untranslatable character I see a squdgy little block in its place but
like you, this time I saw a question mark which I mentally interpreted
as -erme- a question mark.


Nick
Penny
2021-05-11 09:37:56 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 11 May 2021 09:05:44 +0100, Nick Odell
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by steve hague
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by steve hague
I wish the BBC would respect the fact that their values
are not the same as those of most people in the mid 60s.
Do you feel the same about the 2020s?
?
What is it that you don't understand?
...
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Penny
Post by steve hague
I did understand. I put a smiley emoji and you seem to have received a
question mark.
Oh, do graphic emojis work anywhere on usenet?
I think the answer to that is probably "it depends."
I believe that Steve's UTF-8 encoding goes beyond the usenet standard
but many usenet newsreaders can cope. (Yours and mine can't - but you
know that already.)
I admit to having been confused too: usually when there's an
untranslatable character I see a squdgy little block in its place but
like you, this time I saw a question mark which I mentally interpreted
as -erme- a question mark.
I'm not a great fan of emojis - often too small for me to identify them and
then too obscure to understand the meaning.

When it comes to smilies (which will translate into graphics on some
platforms), typing the characters is simple, quick and rarely
misunderstood.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
krw
2021-05-11 09:51:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Penny
When it comes to smilies (which will translate into graphics on some
platforms)
Which I read as similes and struggled to comprehend.
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
BrritSki
2021-05-11 12:49:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by krw
Post by Penny
When it comes to smilies (which will translate into graphics on some
platforms)
Which I read as similes and struggled to comprehend.
Well, smilies are like smiles and similes are like similar things, but
not necessarily similar to smilies. HTH HAND
John Ashby
2021-05-11 14:14:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by BrritSki
Post by krw
Post by Penny
When it comes to smilies (which will translate into graphics on some
platforms)
Which I read as similes and struggled to comprehend.
Well, smilies are like smiles and similes are like similar things, but
not necessarily similar to smilies.  HTH  HAND
Presumably a simile is like a metaphor while a metaphor is a simile.

john
BrritSki
2021-05-11 14:43:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Ashby
Post by BrritSki
Post by krw
Post by Penny
When it comes to smilies (which will translate into graphics on some
platforms)
Which I read as similes and struggled to comprehend.
Well, smilies are like smiles and similes are like similar things, but
not necessarily similar to smilies.  HTH  HAND
Presumably a simile is like a metaphor while a metaphor is a simile.
😄 <--- smiley :)
Vicky Ayech
2021-05-11 10:42:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Penny
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Penny
Post by steve hague
I did understand. I put a smiley emoji and you seem to have received a
question mark.
Oh, do graphic emojis work anywhere on usenet?
I think the answer to that is probably "it depends."
I believe that Steve's UTF-8 encoding goes beyond the usenet standard
but many usenet newsreaders can cope. (Yours and mine can't - but you
know that already.)
I admit to having been confused too: usually when there's an
untranslatable character I see a squdgy little block in its place but
like you, this time I saw a question mark which I mentally interpreted
as -erme- a question mark.
I'm not a great fan of emojis - often too small for me to identify them and
then too obscure to understand the meaning.
MTAAW
Post by Penny
When it comes to smilies (which will translate into graphics on some
platforms), typing the characters is simple, quick and rarely
misunderstood.
John Ashby
2021-05-10 16:43:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by steve hague
Post by John Ashby
Post by steve hague
Even Call the Midwife has become subject to the BBC's woke
principles. They're imposing their values on mid 60s life, much to
the detriment of the scriptwriting.
Steve
Are you sure the values you are thinking of were so out of line with
those of the 60s? I'm going to make a guess that you are particularly
referring to lastnight's episode where homosexuality was given a
balanced treatment with discussion of the legal status, the use of
aversion therapy (and chemical castration) to "treat" it, but also
tolerance and acceptance from the character's family. Given that the
UK was only a year away from legalising homosexuality (c.f. abortion
the week before) it seems entirely reasonable that there would have
been a wide variety of attitudes.
The trick the scriptwriters missed was to examine where the liberal
attitudes you characterise as "woke" came from. In the case of the
young queer's (gay was not yet in use) father, he was an undertaker
and as such would have buried all sorts of people including some in
long-term committed same-sex relationships, and seen first hand love
in action.
It may be, since there was no reason for the father's profession that
this idea was in the script originally and ended up on the cutting
room floor.
And I'd remind you of the old joke: What do you call a man who loves
another man? A Christian.
john
I'm not suggesting it was right to vilify homosexuals, just that it was
not unusual in 1966, and certainly Dr Turner's reaction was that of a
doctor of a much later time. Some of the terms used were anachronistic,
but that's not too unusual on CtM. There's still much to like about the
programme, but I wish the BBC would respect the fact that their values
are not the same as those of most people in the mid 60s.
Steve
Yes, it wasn't unusual, but it was becoming more common to
tolerate/accept them. As evidenced by the imminent decriminalisation.
And only ten years later the Queen would send her condolences to Peter
Pears on the death of his partner.

I'm not sure which terms you think were anachronistic. "Queer" certainly
wasn't. As to Dr Turner's reaction, you might ponder some of his earlier
interactions with homosexuals. In an early series there was a young
father entrapped by a policeman while cottaging and more recently there
was a long term pair of lovers facing the death of one of them (details
escape me, but I think it was a wartime romance). In all cases Dr
Turner's response has been humanity.

Nurse Crane is perhaps a bit more surprising, but she has been
constantly portrayed as a worldly wise woman who has seen most things
and heard of all the others. Again humanity is at the forefront, as it
is in the East End generally (with exceptions, of course).
Peter
2021-05-10 16:45:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by steve hague
Post by John Ashby
Post by steve hague
Even Call the Midwife has become subject to the BBC's woke
principles. They're imposing their values on mid 60s life, much to
the detriment of the scriptwriting.
Steve
Are you sure the values you are thinking of were so out of line with
those of the 60s? I'm going to make a guess that you are particularly
referring to lastnight's episode where homosexuality was given a
balanced treatment with discussion of the legal status, the use of
aversion therapy (and chemical castration) to "treat" it, but also
tolerance and acceptance from the character's family. Given that the
UK was only a year away from legalising homosexuality (c.f. abortion
For the eighty-three millionth time, there was no such thing as
"legalising homosexuality" since homosexuality had never been illegal.
What had been illegal was men performing certain sexual acts with one
another.
Post by steve hague
Post by John Ashby
the week before) it seems entirely reasonable that there would have
been a wide variety of attitudes.
The trick the scriptwriters missed was to examine where the liberal
attitudes you characterise as "woke" came from. In the case of the
young queer's (gay was not yet in use) father, he was an undertaker
and as such would have buried all sorts of people including some in
long-term committed same-sex relationships, and seen first hand love
in action.
It may be, since there was no reason for the father's profession that
this idea was in the script originally and ended up on the cutting
room floor.
And I'd remind you of the old joke: What do you call a man who loves
another man? A Christian.
john
I'm not suggesting it was right to vilify homosexuals, just that it was
not unusual in 1966, and certainly Dr Turner's reaction was that of a
doctor of a much later time. Some of the terms used were anachronistic,
but that's not too unusual on CtM. There's still much to like about the
programme, but I wish the BBC would respect the fact that their values
are not the same as those of most people in the mid 60s.
Steve
I don't think the BBC should be promoting any values of what one might
call the moral kind. Let them, if they wish, promote such values as
production values for their televisual and wireless broadcasts.
--
Just as 'beautiful' points the way for aesthetics and 'good' for ethics,
so do words like 'true' for logic. All sciences have truth as their
goal; but logic is also concerned with it in a quite different way:
logic has much the same relation to truth as physics has to weight or
heat. Frege in 'Thoughts' (Der Gedanke)
John Ashby
2021-05-10 17:24:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter
Post by steve hague
Post by John Ashby
Post by steve hague
Even Call the Midwife has become subject to the BBC's woke
principles. They're imposing their values on mid 60s life, much to
the detriment of the scriptwriting.
Steve
Are you sure the values you are thinking of were so out of line with
those of the 60s? I'm going to make a guess that you are particularly
referring to lastnight's episode where homosexuality was given a
balanced treatment with discussion of the legal status, the use of
aversion therapy (and chemical castration) to "treat" it, but also
tolerance and acceptance from the character's family. Given that the
UK was only a year away from legalising homosexuality (c.f. abortion
For the eighty-three millionth time, there was no such thing as
"legalising homosexuality" since homosexuality had never been illegal.
What had been illegal was men performing certain sexual acts with one
another.
While you DNHTAFPOU, would you like to try splitting that hair a little
finer?
Post by Peter
Post by steve hague
Post by John Ashby
the week before) it seems entirely reasonable that there would have
been a wide variety of attitudes.
The trick the scriptwriters missed was to examine where the liberal
attitudes you characterise as "woke" came from. In the case of the
young queer's (gay was not yet in use) father, he was an undertaker
and as such would have buried all sorts of people including some in
long-term committed same-sex relationships, and seen first hand love
in action.
It may be, since there was no reason for the father's profession that
this idea was in the script originally and ended up on the cutting
room floor.
And I'd remind you of the old joke: What do you call a man who loves
another man? A Christian.
john
I'm not suggesting it was right to vilify homosexuals, just that it
was not unusual in 1966, and certainly Dr Turner's reaction was that
of a doctor of a much later time. Some of the terms used were
anachronistic, but that's not too unusual on CtM. There's still much
to like about the programme, but I wish the BBC would respect the fact
that their values are not the same as those of most people in the mid
60s.
Steve
I don't think the BBC should be promoting any values of what one might
call the moral kind.  Let them, if they wish, promote such values as
production values for their televisual and wireless broadcasts.
The BBC's mandate is to inform, educate and entertain. None of those
activities is morally neutral. The best the BBC can hope to do is to
produce a variety of moral stances across its output.

john
Peter
2021-05-12 18:05:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Ashby
Post by Peter
Post by steve hague
Post by John Ashby
Post by steve hague
Even Call the Midwife has become subject to the BBC's woke
principles. They're imposing their values on mid 60s life, much to
the detriment of the scriptwriting.
Steve
Are you sure the values you are thinking of were so out of line with
those of the 60s? I'm going to make a guess that you are
particularly referring to lastnight's episode where homosexuality
was given a balanced treatment with discussion of the legal status,
the use of aversion therapy (and chemical castration) to "treat" it,
but also tolerance and acceptance from the character's family. Given
that the UK was only a year away from legalising homosexuality (c.f.
abortion
For the eighty-three millionth time, there was no such thing as
"legalising homosexuality" since homosexuality had never been illegal.
What had been illegal was men performing certain sexual acts with one
another.
While you DNHTAFPOU, would you like to try splitting that hair a little
finer?
What (if anything) do you find objectionable in what I wrote?
Post by John Ashby
Post by Peter
Post by steve hague
Post by John Ashby
the week before) it seems entirely reasonable that there would have
been a wide variety of attitudes.
The trick the scriptwriters missed was to examine where the liberal
attitudes you characterise as "woke" came from. In the case of the
young queer's (gay was not yet in use) father, he was an undertaker
and as such would have buried all sorts of people including some in
long-term committed same-sex relationships, and seen first hand love
in action.
It may be, since there was no reason for the father's profession
that this idea was in the script originally and ended up on the
cutting room floor.
And I'd remind you of the old joke: What do you call a man who loves
another man? A Christian.
john
I'm not suggesting it was right to vilify homosexuals, just that it
was not unusual in 1966, and certainly Dr Turner's reaction was that
of a doctor of a much later time. Some of the terms used were
anachronistic, but that's not too unusual on CtM. There's still much
to like about the programme, but I wish the BBC would respect the
fact that their values are not the same as those of most people in
the mid 60s.
Steve
I don't think the BBC should be promoting any values of what one might
call the moral kind.  Let them, if they wish, promote such values as
production values for their televisual and wireless broadcasts.
The BBC's mandate is to inform, educate and entertain. None of those
activities is morally neutral. The best the BBC can hope to do is to
produce a variety of moral stances across its output.
john
--
Just as 'beautiful' points the way for aesthetics and 'good' for ethics,
so do words like 'true' for logic. All sciences have truth as their
goal; but logic is also concerned with it in a quite different way:
logic has much the same relation to truth as physics has to weight or
heat. Frege in 'Thoughts' (Der Gedanke)
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2021-05-10 17:49:02 UTC
Permalink
[]
Post by steve hague
Post by BrritSki
The relentless parade of metropolitan woke nonsense and promotion of
(Don't use "woke", you'll get jumped on.)
Post by steve hague
Post by BrritSki
values that are utterly alien to vast swathes of the population has
only helped the more sensible parties.
Well, it's certainly reinforced my view that the party system is well
past its sell-by date.

It's also renewed my irritation (as it always does) that local elections
are considered as an opinion poll of the national parties. OK, there
should perhaps be an _element_ of that, but local issues should be to
the fore; whereas in practice, national issues are given prominence,
with local ones used as a filler if that.

[Brexit snipped - too hard to unravel "less than ... were unable"]
Post by steve hague
Post by BrritSki
There is a downside of course in that they continue to terrify
people with coverage of the terrible events in India with no context,
They certainly love contextless figures. Last time I actually registered
a figure for India, it was something like 400k deaths; they didn't even
compare that to our ~170k, despite the vast difference in our
populations.
Post by steve hague
Post by BrritSki
plus constant wailing about scary "variants".
From your use of "terrify" and "wailing", I suspect we disagree about
the pace of emergence from lockdown.
Post by steve hague
Post by BrritSki
There is also the problem of encouraging the SNP, not least by
giving Sturgeon a daily Party Political platform on major channels.
This exposure is of enormous value, even if she'd stuck to talk about
COVID which of course she didn't.
Agreed on both points.
[]
Post by steve hague
Even Call the Midwife has become subject to the BBC's woke principles.
They're imposing their values on mid 60s life, much to the detriment of
the scriptwriting.
Steve
I think they're doing very well. They've laid off emphasizing racial
prejudice as an in-your-face thing: they just continue to show coloured
folk as generally worse off (and underlying social attitudes), which I
think accurately reflects the time. If you're referring to last night's
treatment of a homosexual character, then - as anotherrat has said - I
think they portrayed the attitudes mix fairly; things certainly didn't
work out well for him, did they.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want.
CALVIN AND HOBBES, according to a @qikipedia tweet 2019-9-9.
Sam Plusnet
2021-05-10 19:36:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
 The relentless parade of metropolitan woke nonsense and promotion of
(Don't use "woke", you'll get jumped on.)
Being jumped on is not the problem.

Once someone uses a trigger word like "woke", everyone retreats to the
pre-established barricades and bombards the enemy with pre-prepared
ammunition (the word "woke" could be one example).

Much heat and very little light.
--
Sam Plusnet
Chris
2021-05-11 21:03:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
 The relentless parade of metropolitan woke nonsense and promotion of
(Don't use "woke", you'll get jumped on.)
Being jumped on is not the problem.
Once someone uses a trigger word like "woke", everyone retreats to the
pre-established barricades and bombards the enemy with pre-prepared
ammunition (the word "woke" could be one example).
Much heat and very little light.
Woke is to do with waking up. Whst this means I have no idea and thought I
was mishearing yet another few consonants per word.

Sincerely Chris
Loading...