Discussion:
spoiler, 8 March
(too old to reply)
Robin Stevens
2019-03-10 17:48:09 UTC
Permalink
Tony, talking to Jonny about getting Alistair's advice about les vaches,
mentioned "they'd want to use homeopathy for some things". Wouldn't
Alistair tell them to have more sense? There might be a touch of the
placebo effect in humans, but surely not in cows?
Fred
2019-03-10 18:42:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robin Stevens
Tony, talking to Jonny about getting Alistair's advice about les vaches,
mentioned "they'd want to use homeopathy for some things". Wouldn't
Alistair tell them to have more sense? There might be a touch of the
placebo effect in humans, but surely not in cows?
Yes, at that point I shouted, "No!!!"
Fred
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2019-03-10 18:51:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fred
Post by Robin Stevens
Tony, talking to Jonny about getting Alistair's advice about les vaches,
mentioned "they'd want to use homeopathy for some things". Wouldn't
Alistair tell them to have more sense? There might be a touch of the
placebo effect in humans, but surely not in cows?
Yes, at that point I shouted, "No!!!"
Fred
I must not have been paying attention, or I'd have done the same.
However, although I can't see the placebo effect applying to cows (or
any other similar living things in someone's care, including babies), I
can see it working on the carer. As in, not "it makes my cows/baby feel
better", but "I think my cow/baby is improved".
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Q. How much is 2 + 2?
A. Thank you so much for asking your question.
Are you still having this problem? I'll be delighted to help you. Please
restate the problem twice and include your Windows version along with
all error logs.
- Mayayana in alt.windows7.general, 2018-11-1
Nick Odell
2019-03-10 20:37:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robin Stevens
Tony, talking to Jonny about getting Alistair's advice about les vaches,
mentioned "they'd want to use homeopathy for some things". Wouldn't
Alistair tell them to have more sense? There might be a touch of the
placebo effect in humans, but surely not in cows?
I used to know a woman who treated horses with homeopathy. They were
sick. She treated them. They got better. I couldn't understand it either.

Mind you, readers of this column will know that I subscribe to the
theory that most things will get better by themselves if you leave them
alone for long enough so maybe her intervention = leaving them alone for
long enough.

Nick
Mike
2019-03-11 08:27:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Robin Stevens
Tony, talking to Jonny about getting Alistair's advice about les vaches,
mentioned "they'd want to use homeopathy for some things". Wouldn't
Alistair tell them to have more sense? There might be a touch of the
placebo effect in humans, but surely not in cows?
I used to know a woman who treated horses with homeopathy. They were
sick. She treated them. They got better. I couldn't understand it either.
Mind you, readers of this column will know that I subscribe to the
theory that most things will get better by themselves if you leave them
alone for long enough so maybe her intervention = leaving them alone for
long enough.
Nick
Users of this technique would have a rather raw deal at the guillotine I
think;-)
--
Toodle Pip
Nick Odell
2019-03-11 11:20:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Robin Stevens
Tony, talking to Jonny about getting Alistair's advice about les vaches,
mentioned "they'd want to use homeopathy for some things". Wouldn't
Alistair tell them to have more sense? There might be a touch of the
placebo effect in humans, but surely not in cows?
I used to know a woman who treated horses with homeopathy. They were
sick. She treated them. They got better. I couldn't understand it either.
Mind you, readers of this column will know that I subscribe to the
theory that most things will get better by themselves if you leave them
alone for long enough so maybe her intervention = leaving them alone for
long enough.
Nick
Users of this technique would have a rather raw deal at the guillotine I
think;-)
For some reason this reminds me of the manufacturer of bullet-proof
vests which proudly claimed that they had never had any complaints.

Nick
Sam Plusnet
2019-03-11 19:33:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Mike
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Robin Stevens
Tony, talking to Jonny about getting Alistair's advice about les vaches,
mentioned "they'd want to use homeopathy for some things".  Wouldn't
Alistair tell them to have more sense?  There might be a touch of the
placebo effect in humans, but surely not in cows?
I used to know a woman who treated horses with homeopathy. They were
sick. She treated them. They got better. I couldn't understand it either.
Mind you, readers of this column will know that I subscribe to the
theory that most things will get better by themselves if you leave them
alone for long enough so maybe her intervention = leaving them alone for
long enough.
Nick
Users of this technique would have a rather raw deal at the guillotine I
think;-)
For some reason this reminds me of the manufacturer of bullet-proof
vests which proudly claimed that they had never had any complaints.
Ditto faulty parachutes.
--
Sam Plusnet
Penny
2019-03-11 22:14:06 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 11 Mar 2019 19:33:44 +0000, Sam Plusnet <***@home.com> scrawled in
the dust...
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Mike
Post by Nick Odell
I used to know a woman who treated horses with homeopathy. They were
sick. She treated them. They got better. I couldn't understand it either.
Mind you, readers of this column will know that I subscribe to the
theory that most things will get better by themselves if you leave them
alone for long enough so maybe her intervention = leaving them alone for
long enough.
Users of this technique would have a rather raw deal at the guillotine I
think;-)
For some reason this reminds me of the manufacturer of bullet-proof
vests which proudly claimed that they had never had any complaints.
Ditto faulty parachutes.
All of which reminds me of the clever chap who pointed out that reinforcing
the parts of WWII fighter planes which had taken the most hits was the
wrong thing to do because the planes they had deduced this from were the
ones which had survived to fly another day.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Chris J Dixon
2019-03-12 08:35:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Penny
All of which reminds me of the clever chap who pointed out that reinforcing
the parts of WWII fighter planes which had taken the most hits was the
wrong thing to do because the planes they had deduced this from were the
ones which had survived to fly another day.
:-)

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham
'48/33 M B+ G++ A L(-) I S-- CH0(--)(p) Ar- T+ H0 ?Q
***@cdixon.me.uk
Plant amazing Acers.
Mike
2019-03-12 09:08:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Penny
the dust...
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Mike
Post by Nick Odell
I used to know a woman who treated horses with homeopathy. They were
sick. She treated them. They got better. I couldn't understand it either.
Mind you, readers of this column will know that I subscribe to the
theory that most things will get better by themselves if you leave them
alone for long enough so maybe her intervention = leaving them alone for
long enough.
Users of this technique would have a rather raw deal at the guillotine I
think;-)
For some reason this reminds me of the manufacturer of bullet-proof
vests which proudly claimed that they had never had any complaints.
Ditto faulty parachutes.
All of which reminds me of the clever chap who pointed out that reinforcing
the parts of WWII fighter planes which had taken the most hits was the
wrong thing to do because the planes they had deduced this from were the
ones which had survived to fly another day.
Then there was the cleaner working in an aircraft factory; the design team
were huddled around the retrieved wreckage of a fuselage that had lost a
wing - many puzzled faces and scratched heads were evident and as the
cleaner walked by he muttered that they ‘should drill a line of holes in
the wing roots’. The design team were annoyed by this intrusion from ‘a
cleaner’ what would he know about it? Several more crashed aircraft later
due to wings having fallen off, the cleaner made the same remark and
eventually one of the designers who was by this time very annoyed indeed,
challenged the cleaner about his stupid claim; well you see Sir, I clean
out the bogs and well, the paper left on the floor in there has never torn
on the perforations...
--
Toodle Pip
John Ashby
2019-03-12 11:59:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Penny
the dust...
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Mike
Post by Nick Odell
I used to know a woman who treated horses with homeopathy. They were
sick. She treated them. They got better. I couldn't understand it either.
Mind you, readers of this column will know that I subscribe to the
theory that most things will get better by themselves if you leave them
alone for long enough so maybe her intervention = leaving them alone for
long enough.
Users of this technique would have a rather raw deal at the guillotine I
think;-)
For some reason this reminds me of the manufacturer of bullet-proof
vests which proudly claimed that they had never had any complaints.
Ditto faulty parachutes.
All of which reminds me of the clever chap who pointed out that reinforcing
the parts of WWII fighter planes which had taken the most hits was the
wrong thing to do because the planes they had deduced this from were the
ones which had survived to fly another day.
In my youth my parents were friends with our town's chief fire officer
who would never wear a seat belt "because of all the car craches hed
been called out to where occupants had been trapped by their seat belts
and ha to be cut out." He failed to appreciate that the fire brigade
were never called to those accidents where people had been flung through
the windscreen or crushed against the dashboard. Only if they were still
alive and worth cutting out were his service necessary.

Many other decisions suffer from this sort of incomplete data.

john
Rosemary Miskin
2019-03-12 17:27:23 UTC
Permalink
chief fire officer who would never wear a seat belt "because of all the car
craches hed been called out to where occupants had been trapped by their
seat belts and has to be cut out." 
Whereas my pathologist Father was an early adopter of seat belts, having
done so many post-mortems on people who had been thrown through their windscreen!

,
Rosemary
Sam Plusnet
2019-03-12 21:50:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Penny
the dust...
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Mike
Post by Nick Odell
I used to know a woman who treated horses with homeopathy. They were
sick. She treated them. They got better. I couldn't understand it either.
Mind you, readers of this column will know that I subscribe to the
theory that most things will get better by themselves if you leave them
alone for long enough so maybe her intervention = leaving them alone for
long enough.
Users of this technique would have a rather raw deal at the guillotine I
think;-)
For some reason this reminds me of the manufacturer of bullet-proof
vests which proudly claimed that they had never had any complaints.
Ditto faulty parachutes.
All of which reminds me of the clever chap who pointed out that reinforcing
the parts of WWII fighter planes which had taken the most hits was the
wrong thing to do because the planes they had deduced this from were the
ones which had survived to fly another day.
My mother was part of a salvage team who went to the site of the
aircraft that made it back to the vicinity of the airfield, but couldn't
land successfully due to damage sustained.
The aim was to recycle those parts of the aircraft which were not beyond
repair.
Recycling the aircrew was all too often not possible.
--
Sam Plusnet
krw
2019-03-11 22:55:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Mike
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Robin Stevens
Tony, talking to Jonny about getting Alistair's advice about les vaches,
mentioned "they'd want to use homeopathy for some things".  Wouldn't
Alistair tell them to have more sense?  There might be a touch of the
placebo effect in humans, but surely not in cows?
I used to know a woman who treated horses with homeopathy. They were
sick. She treated them. They got better. I couldn't understand it either.
Mind you, readers of this column will know that I subscribe to the
theory that most things will get better by themselves if you leave them
alone for long enough so maybe her intervention = leaving them alone for
long enough.
Nick
Users of this technique would have a rather raw deal at the guillotine I
think;-)
For some reason this reminds me of the manufacturer of bullet-proof
vests which proudly claimed that they had never had any complaints.
Ditto faulty parachutes.
I thought that depended on how the husband had packed them?
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
steveski
2019-03-11 23:16:59 UTC
Permalink
[]
Post by krw
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Nick Odell
For some reason this reminds me of the manufacturer of bullet-proof
vests which proudly claimed that they had never had any complaints.
Ditto faulty parachutes.
I thought that depended on how the husband had packed them?
BTN!
--
Steveski
Sid Nuncius
2019-03-12 07:29:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by krw
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Nick Odell
For some reason this reminds me of the manufacturer of bullet-proof
vests which proudly claimed that they had never had any complaints.
Ditto faulty parachutes.
I thought that depended on how the husband had packed them?
BTN!
Yes. Thoroughly tasteless.
--
Sid (Make sure Matron is away when you reply)
krw
2019-03-12 11:22:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by krw
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Nick Odell
For some reason this reminds me of the manufacturer of bullet-proof
vests which proudly claimed that they had never had any complaints.
Ditto faulty parachutes.
I thought that depended on how the husband had packed them?
BTN!
Yes. Thoroughly tasteless.
Deeply honoured.
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
Mike
2019-03-12 09:08:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by krw
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Mike
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Robin Stevens
Tony, talking to Jonny about getting Alistair's advice about les vaches,
mentioned "they'd want to use homeopathy for some things".  Wouldn't
Alistair tell them to have more sense?  There might be a touch of the
placebo effect in humans, but surely not in cows?
I used to know a woman who treated horses with homeopathy. They were
sick. She treated them. They got better. I couldn't understand it either.
Mind you, readers of this column will know that I subscribe to the
theory that most things will get better by themselves if you leave them
alone for long enough so maybe her intervention = leaving them alone for
long enough.
Nick
Users of this technique would have a rather raw deal at the guillotine I
think;-)
For some reason this reminds me of the manufacturer of bullet-proof
vests which proudly claimed that they had never had any complaints.
Ditto faulty parachutes.
I thought that depended on how the husband had packed them?
BTN!
--
Toodle Pip
Sid Nuncius
2019-03-12 09:19:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by krw
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Nick Odell
For some reason this reminds me of the manufacturer of bullet-proof
vests which proudly claimed that they had never had any complaints.
Ditto faulty parachutes.
I thought that depended on how the husband had packed them?
BTN!
I refer the honourable umrat to the answer I gave earlier. I have been
very clear...(cont. p.94)
--
Sid (Make sure Matron is away when you reply)
Mike
2019-03-12 09:56:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by krw
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Nick Odell
For some reason this reminds me of the manufacturer of bullet-proof
vests which proudly claimed that they had never had any complaints.
Ditto faulty parachutes.
I thought that depended on how the husband had packed them?
BTN!
I refer the honourable umrat to the answer I gave earlier. I have been
very clear...(cont. p.94)
Sorry Sid, i respond directly after reading a post, then continue to next
post; going back after reading all posts is too much of a faff.
--
Toodle Pip
Sid Nuncius
2019-03-12 10:28:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by krw
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Nick Odell
For some reason this reminds me of the manufacturer of bullet-proof
vests which proudly claimed that they had never had any complaints.
Ditto faulty parachutes.
I thought that depended on how the husband had packed them?
BTN!
I refer the honourable umrat to the answer I gave earlier. I have been
very clear...(cont. p.94)
Sorry Sid, i respond directly after reading a post, then continue to next
post; going back after reading all posts is too much of a faff.
<condescending nod>
Very well. An understandable error.
--
Sid (Make sure Matron is away when you reply)
Sam Plusnet
2019-03-12 21:44:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by krw
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Nick Odell
For some reason this reminds me of the manufacturer of bullet-proof
vests which proudly claimed that they had never had any complaints.
Ditto faulty parachutes.
I thought that depended on how the husband had packed them?
BTN!
I refer the honourable umrat to the answer I gave earlier.  I have been
very clear...(cont. p.94)
Well quite.
BTN acceptance means BTN acceptance.
--
Sam Plusnet
Derek Turner
2019-03-11 13:56:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nick Odell
Mind you, readers of this column will know that I subscribe to the
theory that most things will get better by themselves if you leave them
alone for long enough so maybe her intervention = leaving them alone for
long enough.
Ben Goldacre talks about this phenomenon in "Bad Science". It has a
name: Reversion (or regression) to the Mean (or Norm). He has a
brilliant whole chapter on homeopathy.
Mike
2019-03-11 14:08:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Derek Turner
Post by Nick Odell
Mind you, readers of this column will know that I subscribe to the
theory that most things will get better by themselves if you leave them
alone for long enough so maybe her intervention = leaving them alone for
long enough.
Ben Goldacre talks about this phenomenon in "Bad Science". It has a
name: Reversion (or regression) to the Mean (or Norm). He has a
brilliant whole chapter on homeopathy.
Would reading just the chapter heading be effective on its’ own?
--
Toodle Pip
Penny
2019-03-11 15:57:17 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 11 Mar 2019 14:08:14 GMT, Mike <***@ntlworld.com> scrawled
in the dust...
Post by Derek Turner
Post by Nick Odell
Mind you, readers of this column will know that I subscribe to the
theory that most things will get better by themselves if you leave them
alone for long enough so maybe her intervention = leaving them alone for
long enough.
Ben Goldacre talks about this phenomenon in "Bad Science". It has a
name: Reversion (or regression) to the Mean (or Norm). He has a
brilliant whole chapter on homeopathy.
Would reading just the chapter heading be effective on its’ own?
Tee Hee!
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Mike Ruddock
2019-03-11 14:46:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Derek Turner
Post by Nick Odell
Mind you, readers of this column will know that I subscribe to the
theory that most things will get better by themselves if you leave
them alone for long enough so maybe her intervention = leaving them
alone for long enough.
Ben Goldacre talks about this phenomenon in "Bad Science". It has a
name: Reversion (or regression) to the Mean (or Norm). He has a
brilliant whole chapter on homeopathy.
There is also a chapter about homeopathy in Michael Brooks' book "13
Things that don't make sense". I can recommend the book to those of an
enquiring mind.

The epigraph to the chapter is "It's patently absurd so why won't it go
away?"

Mike Ruddock
Chris J Dixon
2019-03-11 14:49:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nick Odell
Mind you, readers of this column will know that I subscribe to the
theory that most things will get better by themselves if you leave them
alone for long enough so maybe her intervention = leaving them alone for
long enough.
This reminds me of a thought I had way back when I had a car that
sometimes failed to start. My usual remedy was to pop the bonnet,
rummage in the boot and spray WD40 in what seemed to be
appropriate locations.

It usually worked, but I seriously wondered if it was simply a
flooded carb (yes, that long ago) sorting itself, and I could
have achieved the same result if I had simply mimed the actual
anointing.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham
'48/33 M B+ G++ A L(-) I S-- CH0(--)(p) Ar- T+ H0 ?Q
***@cdixon.me.uk
Plant amazing Acers.
Jenny M Benson
2019-03-11 15:30:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robin Stevens
Tony, talking to Jonny about getting Alistair's advice about les vaches,
mentioned "they'd want to use homeopathy for some things". Wouldn't
Alistair tell them to have more sense? There might be a touch of the
placebo effect in humans, but surely not in cows?
How was homeopathy invented/discovered?

Was it a case of "This medicine hasn't worked - I'll try using a little
less, but I'll add water so the patient doesn't notice." "No, that
didn't work so I'll try even less." And after a few thousand times it
worked!
--
Jenny M Benson
http://jennygenes.blogspot.co.uk/
LFS
2019-03-12 12:57:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jenny M Benson
Post by Robin Stevens
Tony, talking to Jonny about getting Alistair's advice about les vaches,
mentioned "they'd want to use homeopathy for some things".  Wouldn't
Alistair tell them to have more sense?  There might be a touch of the
placebo effect in humans, but surely not in cows?
How was homeopathy invented/discovered?
Was it a case of "This medicine hasn't worked - I'll try using a little
less, but I'll add water so the patient doesn't notice."  "No, that
didn't work so I'll try even less."  And after a few thousand times it
worked!
If you really want to know...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1676328/
--
Laura (emulate St George for email)
Jenny M Benson
2019-03-12 13:08:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by LFS
If you really want to know...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1676328/
Thank you, yes, I was curious because it seemed such an unlikely thing
to discover.

The article does provoke another question: why did that chap start
taking does of quinine every day?
--
Jenny M Benson
http://jennygenes.blogspot.co.uk/
Mike
2019-03-12 13:57:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jenny M Benson
Post by LFS
If you really want to know...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1676328/
Thank you, yes, I was curious because it seemed such an unlikely thing
to discover.
The article does provoke another question: why did that chap start
taking does of quinine every day?
Perhaps he just tried it and got Schwepped away with the idea.
--
Toodle Pip
Penny
2019-03-12 14:44:13 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 12 Mar 2019 13:08:14 +0000, Jenny M Benson <***@hotmail.co.uk>
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Jenny M Benson
Post by LFS
If you really want to know...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1676328/
Thank you, yes, I was curious because it seemed such an unlikely thing
to discover.
The article does provoke another question: why did that chap start
taking does of quinine every day?
It covered up the juniper flavour of his gin.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Fred
2019-03-12 15:29:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jenny M Benson
Post by LFS
If you really want to know...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1676328/
Thank you, yes, I was curious because it seemed such an unlikely thing
to discover.
The article does provoke another question: why did that chap start
taking does of quinine every day?
--
He just needed a tonic?
Fred
Post by Jenny M Benson
Jenny M Benson
http://jennygenes.blogspot.co.uk/
krw
2019-03-12 15:48:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jenny M Benson
Post by LFS
If you really want to know...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1676328/
Thank you, yes, I was curious because it seemed such an unlikely thing
to discover.
The article does provoke another question:  why did that chap start
taking does of quinine every day?
You can get entire deer full of drugs?
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
Mike
2019-03-12 16:14:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by krw
Post by Jenny M Benson
Post by LFS
If you really want to know...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1676328/
Thank you, yes, I was curious because it seemed such an unlikely thing
to discover.
The article does provoke another question:  why did that chap start
taking does of quinine every day?
You can get entire deer full of drugs?
Should be diluted with a drop of golden sun though.
--
Toodle Pip
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