Discussion:
The Health Minister
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Vicky Ayech
2020-03-11 12:00:17 UTC
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https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/health-minister-nadine-dorries-tests-positive-for-coronavirus/ar-BB110NZD?ocid=spartandhp
Most umrats will have seenthis news. She was at Number 10 in the
infectious period, the day she felt ill. She also went though the
lobby to vote twice in the last week so mingled with hundreds of MPS.
Could we have a cull? How many are over 65?

How many people they came into contact with would go to the Lrods
where many are over 65?
#just saying
Sid Nuncius
2020-03-11 14:57:20 UTC
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Post by Vicky Ayech
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/health-minister-nadine-dorries-tests-positive-for-coronavirus/ar-BB110NZD?ocid=spartandhp
Most umrats will have seenthis news. She was at Number 10 in the
infectious period, the day she felt ill.
I find myself harbouring the ignoble hope that Dominic Cummings has an
underlying health condition.
--
Sid (Make sure Matron is away when you reply)
Mike
2020-03-11 15:19:23 UTC
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Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by Vicky Ayech
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/health-minister-nadine-dorries-tests-positive-for-coronavirus/ar-BB110NZD?ocid=spartandhp
Most umrats will have seenthis news. She was at Number 10 in the
infectious period, the day she felt ill.
I find myself harbouring the ignoble hope that Dominic Cummings has an
underlying health condition.
This whole business could go viral...
--
Toodle Pip
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2020-03-12 00:47:57 UTC
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Post by Mike
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by Vicky Ayech
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/health-minister-nadine-dorr
ies-tests-positive-for-coronavirus/ar-BB110NZD?ocid=spartandhp
Most umrats will have seenthis news. She was at Number 10 in the
infectious period, the day she felt ill.
I find myself harbouring the ignoble hope that Dominic Cummings has an
underlying health condition.
Naughty, naughty! (You may be right; I've lost track of which of the
current lot does what, or has done what bad thing.)
Post by Mike
This whole business could go viral...
VG!

But surely she _was_ "closer than 2m for over 15 minutes" if they had
votes to decide on things, as those involve MPs going into and out of
lobbies, to be counted. I've no idea how big these "lobbies" are, but
still, few hundred MPs ... I would have thought that at the very least a
large number of them should be being at least _tested_.

We _should_ be doing a national social isolation anyway: this is a new
virus, with mortality rate of somewhere between 1 and 5 per cent (as
compared to 0.1% for 'flu) of those who get it - which, since we have no
treatment at the moment, means most of us will eventually. Of those who
get it, about 20% need hospitalisation, and I forget how many of those
need intensive care (equipment) - I think it might be 12%.

As I say, we'll all (or most) get it eventually - but if we can limit
the numbers who have it *at any one time*, there is more hope that our
health resources will be able to cope. Such limiting can _only_ be
achieved by minimising contact as much as possible; certainly I see the
current limitations as ridiculously low.

Yes, I realise not everyone is in a position to self-isolate: not all
jobs can be done from home. But _any_ interaction not needed should be
limited [and separation enforced]. _Maybe_ not to the Italian level -
though look at how they're suffering even _with_ their lockdown. And we
(England) have 2.3 beds per 1000 people (80-90% of which are already
occupied, as they should be); Italy has 3.6 per 1000. Not sure if those
are beds, ICU beds, or whether the figures are even at all correct or
not - but I'm fairly certain that we have slightly fewer, per head of
population, than Italy. And with a fairly draconian lockdown, they are
struggling mightily - so our "keep calm and carry on" attitude seems
crazy to me.

At the very least, we should be working from home where the jobs are
suitable, and operating separation of 1-2m in any gathering - yes, I
know that will kill many events, restaurants, etc. - until at least the
daily increase stops increasing.

Certainly, for parliament not even to be testing MPs - and, if any job
could be done by videolink, parliament must be one, too - seems to me to
be setting a very irresponsible example. (And no, I'm not saying either
"side" [though Typhoid Boris continuing to shake hands with everybody
certainly does no credit to his "side"].)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

A good pun is its own reword.
Penny
2020-03-12 10:39:57 UTC
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Permalink
On Thu, 12 Mar 2020 00:47:57 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
We _should_ be doing a national social isolation anyway: this is a new
virus, with mortality rate of somewhere between 1 and 5 per cent (as
compared to 0.1% for 'flu) of those who get it - which, since we have no
treatment at the moment, means most of us will eventually. Of those who
get it, about 20% need hospitalisation, and I forget how many of those
need intensive care (equipment) - I think it might be 12%.
The figures I saw this morning, in very pretty graphics from Information is
beautiful were
Mild symptoms 80.9%
Severe 13.8% -> hospital
Critical 4.7% -> intensive care
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
As I say, we'll all (or most) get it eventually - but if we can limit
the numbers who have it *at any one time*, there is more hope that our
health resources will be able to cope. Such limiting can _only_ be
achieved by minimising contact as much as possible; certainly I see the
current limitations as ridiculously low.
Apparently Italy have done more testing than elsewhere - hence their
lockdown.
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
And with a fairly draconian lockdown, they are
struggling mightily - so our "keep calm and carry on" attitude seems
crazy to me.
I learnt yesterday that my 'singing for lung health' session (which I have
not been well enough to attend for 3 weeks - one must always consider
others in the group) will not be taking place for the foreseeable future.
This seems very sensible, especially as it is now held at the local
college.

My over 50s art group also takes place at the college - the attached
theatre has funding for these 'community' enterprises. The County Council
will soon decide whether to close schools and colleges because of
Corvid-19. My art teacher is in fear for her mortgage - much of her work
involves schools and colleges and her future bookings are in jeopardy.

The singing teacher pointed out that if schools close, a lot of the
children will be spending time with their grandparents who are in a higher
risk group.
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
At the very least, we should be working from home where the jobs are
suitable, and operating separation of 1-2m in any gathering - yes, I
know that will kill many events, restaurants, etc. - until at least the
daily increase stops increasing.
While trying to keep the children occupied, I suppose.

The daily increase is largely self-reported. For anyone working in the gig
economy, the incentive is to keep working or stop eating. Ride-share
drivers and couriers who all have contact with many people a day are in
this group.
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Certainly, for parliament not even to be testing MPs - and, if any job
could be done by videolink, parliament must be one, too - seems to me to
be setting a very irresponsible example. (And no, I'm not saying either
"side" [though Typhoid Boris continuing to shake hands with everybody
certainly does no credit to his "side"].)
Wanting the numbers to stop increasing while widening the scope of testing
sounds like pie in the sky.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
John Ashby
2020-03-12 11:58:15 UTC
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Post by Penny
I learnt yesterday that my 'singing for lung health' session (which I have
not been well enough to attend for 3 weeks - one must always consider
others in the group) will not be taking place for the foreseeable future.
This seems very sensible, especially as it is now held at the local
college.
My over 50s art group also takes place at the college - the attached
theatre has funding for these 'community' enterprises. The County Council
will soon decide whether to close schools and colleges because of
Corvid-19.
They'll still rook you for the fees and crow about it.

john
BrritSki
2020-03-12 12:58:57 UTC
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Post by John Ashby
Post by Penny
I learnt yesterday that my 'singing for lung health' session (which I have
not been well enough to attend for 3 weeks - one must always consider
others in the group) will not be taking place for the foreseeable future.
This seems very sensible, especially as it is now held at the local
college.
My over 50s art group also takes place at the college - the attached
theatre has funding for these 'community' enterprises. The County Council
will soon decide whether to close schools and colleges because of
Corvid-19.
They'll still rook you for the fees and crow about it.
LOL
steve hague
2020-03-12 13:59:01 UTC
Reply
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Post by John Ashby
Post by Penny
I learnt yesterday that my 'singing for lung health' session (which I have
not been well enough to attend for 3 weeks - one must always consider
others in the group) will not be taking place for the foreseeable future.
This seems very sensible, especially as it is now held at the local
college.
My over 50s art group also takes place at the college - the attached
theatre has funding for these 'community' enterprises. The County Council
will soon decide whether to close schools and colleges because of
Corvid-19.
They'll still rook you for the fees and crow about it.
LOL
+1
Mike
2020-03-12 14:50:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by John Ashby
Post by Penny
I learnt yesterday that my 'singing for lung health' session (which I have
not been well enough to attend for 3 weeks - one must always consider
others in the group) will not be taking place for the foreseeable future.
This seems very sensible, especially as it is now held at the local
college.
My over 50s art group also takes place at the college - the attached
theatre has funding for these 'community' enterprises. The County Council
will soon decide whether to close schools and colleges because of
Corvid-19.
They'll still rook you for the fees and crow about it.
LOL
+1
And charge at beak rate.
--
Toodle Pip
Joe Kerr
2020-03-12 12:59:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by John Ashby
Post by Penny
I learnt yesterday that my 'singing for lung health' session (which I have
not been well enough to attend for 3 weeks - one must always consider
others in the group) will not be taking place for the foreseeable future.
This seems very sensible, especially as it is now held at the local
college.
My over 50s art group also takes place at the college - the attached
theatre has funding for these 'community' enterprises. The County Council
will soon decide whether to close schools and colleges because of
Corvid-19.
They'll still rook you for the fees and crow about it.
I'm sure they'll be quite choughed about that, even if it does leave the
participants raven mad.
Post by John Ashby
john
--
Ric
BrritSki
2020-03-12 12:59:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by John Ashby
Post by Penny
I learnt yesterday that my 'singing for lung health' session (which I have
not been well enough to attend for 3 weeks - one must always consider
others in the group) will not be taking place for the foreseeable future.
This seems very sensible, especially as it is now held at the local
college.
My over 50s art group also takes place at the college - the attached
theatre has funding for these 'community' enterprises. The County Council
will soon decide whether to close schools and colleges because of
Corvid-19.
They'll still rook you for the fees and crow about it.
I'm rather choughed by this post :)
Rosalind Mitchell
2020-03-12 13:08:20 UTC
Reply
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Post by BrritSki
Post by John Ashby
Post by Penny
I learnt yesterday that my 'singing for lung health' session (which I
have not been well enough to attend for 3 weeks - one must always
consider others in the group) will not be taking place for the
foreseeable future.
This seems very sensible, especially as it is now held at the local
college.
My over 50s art group also takes place at the college - the attached
theatre has funding for these 'community' enterprises. The County
Council will soon decide whether to close schools and colleges because
of Corvid-19.
They'll still rook you for the fees and crow about it.
I'm rather choughed by this post :)
I'm just feeling jayded because others got to the corvid puns before me.
John, do you get called Jack? Adored your quick response.

R
Penny
2020-03-12 15:27:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 12 Mar 2020 11:58:15 +0000, John Ashby <***@yahoo.com>
scrawled in the dust...
Post by John Ashby
Post by Penny
I learnt yesterday that my 'singing for lung health' session (which I have
not been well enough to attend for 3 weeks - one must always consider
others in the group) will not be taking place for the foreseeable future.
This seems very sensible, especially as it is now held at the local
college.
My over 50s art group also takes place at the college - the attached
theatre has funding for these 'community' enterprises. The County Council
will soon decide whether to close schools and colleges because of
Corvid-19.
They'll still rook you for the fees and crow about it.
The art class is free as a bird, the singing costs are chicken feed.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
BrritSki
2020-03-12 15:45:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by John Ashby
Post by Penny
I learnt yesterday that my 'singing for lung health' session (which I have
not been well enough to attend for 3 weeks - one must always consider
others in the group) will not be taking place for the foreseeable future.
This seems very sensible, especially as it is now held at the local
college.
My over 50s art group also takes place at the college - the attached
theatre has funding for these 'community' enterprises. The County Council
will soon decide whether to close schools and colleges because of
Corvid-19.
They'll still rook you for the fees and crow about it.
The art class is free as a bird, the singing costs are chicken feed.
Is that the same as a cheap Trill ?
Sam Plusnet
2020-03-12 21:19:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by John Ashby
Post by Penny
I learnt yesterday that my 'singing for lung health' session (which I have
not been well enough to attend for 3 weeks - one must always consider
others in the group) will not be taking place for the foreseeable future.
This seems very sensible, especially as it is now held at the local
college.
My over 50s art group also takes place at the college - the attached
theatre has funding for these 'community' enterprises. The County Council
will soon decide whether to close schools and colleges because of
Corvid-19.
They'll still rook you for the fees and crow about it.
The art class is free as a bird, the singing costs are chicken feed.
"See this other leg?
Pullet."
--
Sam Plusnet
Mike
2020-03-13 09:02:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by John Ashby
Post by Penny
I learnt yesterday that my 'singing for lung health' session (which I have
not been well enough to attend for 3 weeks - one must always consider
others in the group) will not be taking place for the foreseeable future.
This seems very sensible, especially as it is now held at the local
college.
My over 50s art group also takes place at the college - the attached
theatre has funding for these 'community' enterprises. The County Council
will soon decide whether to close schools and colleges because of
Corvid-19.
They'll still rook you for the fees and crow about it.
The art class is free as a bird, the singing costs are chicken feed.
"See this other leg?
Pullet."
Whose egging you on?
--
Toodle Pip
Joe Kerr
2020-03-13 14:59:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mike
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by John Ashby
Post by Penny
I learnt yesterday that my 'singing for lung health' session (which I have
not been well enough to attend for 3 weeks - one must always consider
others in the group) will not be taking place for the foreseeable future.
This seems very sensible, especially as it is now held at the local
college.
My over 50s art group also takes place at the college - the attached
theatre has funding for these 'community' enterprises. The County Council
will soon decide whether to close schools and colleges because of
Corvid-19.
They'll still rook you for the fees and crow about it.
The art class is free as a bird, the singing costs are chicken feed.
"See this other leg?
Pullet."
Whose egging you on?
This is not a yolking matter.
--
Ric
Sam Plusnet
2020-03-13 21:24:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Joe Kerr
Post by Mike
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by John Ashby
Post by Penny
I learnt yesterday that my 'singing for lung health' session (which I have
not been well enough to attend for 3 weeks - one must always consider
others in the group) will not be taking place for the foreseeable future.
This seems very sensible, especially as it is now held at the local
college.
My over 50s art group also takes place at the college - the attached
theatre has funding for these 'community' enterprises. The County Council
will soon decide whether to close schools and colleges because of
Corvid-19.
They'll still rook you for the fees and crow about it.
The art class is free as a bird, the singing costs are chicken feed.
"See this other leg?
Pullet."
Whose egging you on?
This is not a yolking matter.
Not if you have to shell out for classes that are cancelled.
--
Sam Plusnet
BrritSki
2020-03-13 21:26:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Joe Kerr
Post by Mike
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by John Ashby
Post by Penny
I learnt yesterday that my 'singing for lung health' session (which I have
not been well enough to attend for 3 weeks - one must always consider
others in the group) will not be taking place for the foreseeable future.
This seems very sensible, especially as it is now held at the local
college.
My over 50s art group also takes place at the college - the attached
theatre has funding for these 'community' enterprises. The County Council
will soon decide whether to close schools and colleges because of
Corvid-19.
They'll still rook you for the fees and crow about it.
The art class is free as a bird, the singing costs are chicken feed.
"See this other leg?
Pullet."
Whose egging you on?
This is not a yolking matter.
Not if you have to shell out for classes that are cancelled.
And their second albumen was rubbish.

J. P. Gilliver (John)
2020-03-12 16:37:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 12 Mar 2020 at 10:39:57, Penny <***@labyrinth.freeuk.com>
wrote:
[]
Post by Penny
The figures I saw this morning, in very pretty graphics from Information is
beautiful were
Mild symptoms 80.9%
Severe 13.8% -> hospital
Critical 4.7% -> intensive care
OK, so my ~20% hospital was _slightly_ high, and (I'm pleased that) my
intensive was far too high.
Post by Penny
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
As I say, we'll all (or most) get it eventually - but if we can limit
the numbers who have it *at any one time*, there is more hope that our
health resources will be able to cope. Such limiting can _only_ be
achieved by minimising contact as much as possible; certainly I see the
current limitations as ridiculously low.
Apparently Italy have done more testing than elsewhere - hence their
lockdown.
Hmm. So maybe we have the same level but don't know it? I think "not
_yet_" is probably the best answer to that.
Post by Penny
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
And with a fairly draconian lockdown, they are
struggling mightily - so our "keep calm and carry on" attitude seems
crazy to me.
Whether, if Italy had had their lockdown earlier (e. g. where we are
now), their peak would have been flattened more, is being argued widely.
(Well, actually, Italy as such isn't being discussed much, but the
question of whether we should be doing more certainly is. With some
reasonable arguments on both sides of the debate.)
[]
Post by Penny
This seems very sensible, especially as it is now held at the local
college.
Agreed.
Post by Penny
My over 50s art group also takes place at the college - the attached
theatre has funding for these 'community' enterprises. The County Council
will soon decide whether to close schools and colleges because of
Corvid-19. My art teacher is in fear for her mortgage - much of her work
involves schools and colleges and her future bookings are in jeopardy.
There's been some talk of people not being penalized for late payment of
such things - but I bet that even if some such mechanisms are put in
place, plenty of people will fall through the cracks )-:.
Post by Penny
The singing teacher pointed out that if schools close, a lot of the
children will be spending time with their grandparents who are in a higher
risk group.
Indeed. This is being widely pointed out.
Post by Penny
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
At the very least, we should be working from home where the jobs are
suitable, and operating separation of 1-2m in any gathering - yes, I
know that will kill many events, restaurants, etc. - until at least the
daily increase stops increasing.
While trying to keep the children occupied, I suppose.
I never said it would be easy. And I'm also very aware that I'm lucky in
this respect. I do feel we're not doing as much home-working as we
_could_ (I've felt this for a long time, not just under the current
pandemic), and also are not doing the spacing thing as much as we ought.
Post by Penny
The daily increase is largely self-reported. For anyone working in the gig
economy, the incentive is to keep working or stop eating. Ride-share
drivers and couriers who all have contact with many people a day are in
this group.
I do understand that.
Post by Penny
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Certainly, for parliament not even to be testing MPs - and, if any job
could be done by videolink, parliament must be one, too - seems to me to
be setting a very irresponsible example. (And no, I'm not saying either
"side" [though Typhoid Boris continuing to shake hands with everybody
certainly does no credit to his "side"].)
Wanting the numbers to stop increasing while widening the scope of testing
sounds like pie in the sky.
(It seems that testing of those around the health minister _is_ finally
happening anyway.) I'm not sure that more testing will actually change
much as far as the spread is concerned anyway, it will just give us more
information. (Which - in a small number of situations only - _will_
allow appropriate changes to be made. Or even not to be.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"I'm a paranoid agnostic. I doubt the existence of God, but I'm sure there is
some force, somewhere, working against me." - Marc Maron
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2020-03-12 17:51:31 UTC
Reply
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Just listening to the briefing ...

On Thu, 12 Mar 2020 at 16:37:11, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
<***@255soft.uk> wrote:
[]
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Penny
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
As I say, we'll all (or most) get it eventually - but if we can limit
They agreed with that.
[]
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Penny
Apparently Italy have done more testing than elsewhere - hence their
lockdown.
Hmm. So maybe we have the same level but don't know it? I think "not
_yet_" is probably the best answer to that.
They've said we've probably got about 10,000 cases - and are about 4
weeks behind Italy.
[]
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Penny
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
At the very least, we should be working from home where the jobs are
suitable, and operating separation of 1-2m in any gathering - yes, I
[]
Seems they're not thinking of enforcing things, but just relying on
people to behave. And they don't want to even recommend _that_ too
early, because people will "get tired" of doing it - and, at worst,
"give up" and emerge, right on the peak. Which is anticipated at being
10-14 weeks from now.

I think they're right.

They _do not have a test_ that detects the mild or no symptoms version.

They think it's not infectious after about 7 days. (Hence "stay at home
for a week if you feel unwell".)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

'It works for me' is not the same as it isn't broke - Kenn Villegas, 2010-2-19
in
https://rwmj.wordpress.com/2010/02/18/why-the-windows-registry-sucks-
technically/
BrritSki
2020-03-12 18:12:00 UTC
Reply
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Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
They _do not have a test_ that detects the mild or no symptoms version.
YES THEY DO, but they can't test everyone without symptoms or even
everyone with symptoms given that many of them are similar to cold or
flu symptoms [1]

The UK testing rate is some 5 times higher than in Italy which gives me
a lot of confidence...

Italy, 12,462 cases, 60,761 tests,
UK 373 cases, 26,261 tests

https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2020/health/coronavirus-maps-and-cases/

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/covid-19-testing/

[1]
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2236610-coronavirus-how-do-i-get-tested-and-how-does-the-test-work/
BrritSki
2020-03-12 18:15:11 UTC
Reply
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Post by BrritSki
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
They _do not have a test_ that detects the mild or no symptoms version.
YES THEY DO, but they can't test everyone without symptoms or even
everyone with symptoms given that many of them are similar to cold or
flu symptoms [1]
The UK testing rate is some 5 times higher than in Italy which gives me
a lot of confidence...
Italy, 12,462 cases, 60,761 tests,
UK        373 cases, 26,261 tests
https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2020/health/coronavirus-maps-and-cases/
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/covid-19-testing/
[1]
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2236610-coronavirus-how-do-i-get-tested-and-how-does-the-test-work/
Correction almost 15 times higher
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2020-03-12 19:24:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by BrritSki
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
They _do not have a test_ that detects the mild or no symptoms version.
YES THEY DO, but they can't test everyone without symptoms or even
everyone with symptoms given that many of them are similar to cold or
flu symptoms [1]
Well, they clearly said they hadn't, twice. Certainly, they've lied
plenty of times before, but I can't see any gain for them in saying that
if it's not true.

Not sure about "given that many [symptoms] are similar to cold or flu";
I've been assuming the test looks for something like DNA or similar (do
viruses have DNA? Something that tests blood or urine or similar,
anyway). If it only looks for symptoms, I'm less happy to call it a test
specifically for CV19. [Actually, it _can't_ just work on symptoms, as
they talk of it taking six hours to do.] So I presume the mild or no
symptoms case doesn't result in the levels of whatever chemicals it's
looking for.
Post by BrritSki
The UK testing rate is some 5 times higher than in Italy which gives
me a lot of confidence...
Italy, 12,462 cases, 60,761 tests,
UK        373 cases, 26,261 tests
What was Italy's number 4 weeks ago? (12k/373 is only about five
doublings. Unless someone testing clear will actually remain clear.)
[]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Q. How much is 2 + 2?
A. Thank you so much for asking your question.
Are you still having this problem? I'll be delighted to help you. Please
restate the problem twice and include your Windows version along with
all error logs.
- Mayayana in alt.windows7.general, 2018-11-1
Joe Kerr
2020-03-12 20:01:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Not sure about "given that many [symptoms] are similar to cold or flu";
I've been assuming the test looks for something like DNA or similar (do
viruses have DNA?
That's pretty much all that viruses do have. They are just DNA in a
little box, which is why they are a nuisance. They need to invade a host
and take over its cells to get everything else they need to reproduce.
--
Ric
Kate B
2020-03-12 23:41:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Joe Kerr
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Not sure about "given that many [symptoms] are similar to cold or
flu"; I've been assuming the test looks for something like DNA or
similar (do viruses have DNA?
That's pretty much all that viruses do have. They are just DNA in a
little box, which is why they are a nuisance. They need to invade a host
and take over its cells to get everything else they need to reproduce.
RNA, not DNA. But the rest is right.
--
Kate B
London
Sid Nuncius
2020-03-13 07:01:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Kate B
Post by Joe Kerr
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Not sure about "given that many [symptoms] are similar to cold or
flu"; I've been assuming the test looks for something like DNA or
similar (do viruses have DNA?
That's pretty much all that viruses do have. They are just DNA in a
little box, which is why they are a nuisance. They need to invade a
host and take over its cells to get everything else they need to
reproduce.
RNA, not DNA. But the rest is right.
Sir Peter Medawar described a virus as a piece of bad news wrapped in
protein, which sums it up rather well. The bad news can be in the form
of either DNA or RNA; in coronaviruses it is RNA.
--
Sid (Make sure Matron is away when you reply)
BrritSki
2020-03-12 20:25:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
They _do not have a test_ that detects the mild or no symptoms version.
 YES THEY DO, but they can't test everyone without symptoms or even
everyone with symptoms given that many of them are similar to cold or
flu symptoms [1]
Well, they clearly said they hadn't, twice. Certainly, they've lied
plenty of times before, but I can't see any gain for them in saying that
if it's not true.
Who said ?
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Not sure about "given that many [symptoms] are similar to cold or flu";
I've been assuming the test looks for something like DNA or similar (do
viruses have DNA?
RNA. If you are infected the sequences will be there in the swab whether
you have symptoms or not.

The details are in the NewScientist article?

<https://www.newscientist.com/article/2236610-coronavirus-how-do-i-get-tested-and-how-does-the-test-work/>
Jim Easterbrook
2020-03-12 18:44:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by BrritSki
Italy, 12,462 cases, 60,761 tests,
UK 373 cases, 26,261 tests
Mind you, we can expect a big increase in the number of UK cases in the
next few weeks, but probably not a huge increase in the rate of testing.
--
Jim <http://www.jim-easterbrook.me.uk/>
1959/1985? M B+ G+ A L- I- S- P-- CH0(p) Ar++ T+ H0 Q--- Sh0
BrritSki
2020-03-12 20:36:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jim Easterbrook
Post by BrritSki
Italy, 12,462 cases, 60,761 tests,
UK 373 cases, 26,261 tests
Mind you, we can expect a big increase in the number of UK cases in the
next few weeks, but probably not a huge increase in the rate of testing.
I think the point is that Italy were doing nowhere near this level of
testing 4 weeks ago AIUI. So they missed a lot of cases that went on to
spread it far and wide, not helped by the Italian cultural practices
like hugging and big family gatherings on Sundays.

I'm sure we are missing cases too, but I have some hope that we are not
missing so many or are as likely to spread it so much with our day to
day behaviours.
Sam Plusnet
2020-03-12 21:29:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by BrritSki
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
They _do not have a test_ that detects the mild or no symptoms version.
YES THEY DO, but they can't test everyone without symptoms or even
everyone with symptoms given that many of them are similar to cold or
flu symptoms [1]
The UK testing rate is some 5 times higher than in Italy which gives me
a lot of confidence...
Italy, 12,462 cases, 60,761 tests,
UK        373 cases, 26,261 tests
I read (somewhere) that the UK was 'exposed' to the virus at roughly the
same time as Italy (in terms of people arriving in-country who later
developed symptoms) but it has spread there much more quickly.

Fertile ground for theories based on Italian effusive greetings in
comparison to Anglo-Saxon reserve.

On testing, the US CDC published figures which allowed journalists to
compare some national testing rates, over a few days, earlier this month.

USA 40 tests
UK 400 tests
S. Korea 4,000 tests.
--
Sam Plusnet
Chris McMillan
2020-03-13 16:06:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by BrritSki
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
They _do not have a test_ that detects the mild or no symptoms version.
YES THEY DO, but they can't test everyone without symptoms or even
everyone with symptoms given that many of them are similar to cold or
flu symptoms [1]
The UK testing rate is some 5 times higher than in Italy which gives me
a lot of confidence...
Italy, 12,462 cases, 60,761 tests,
UK        373 cases, 26,261 tests
I read (somewhere) that the UK was 'exposed' to the virus at roughly the
same time as Italy (in terms of people arriving in-country who later
developed symptoms) but it has spread there much more quickly.
Fertile ground for theories based on Italian effusive greetings in
comparison to Anglo-Saxon reserve.
On testing, the US CDC published figures which allowed journalists to
compare some national testing rates, over a few days, earlier this month.
USA 40 tests
UK 400 tests
S. Korea 4,000 tests.
I have a friend who lives in Romania, an ex pat, and she says so many
Romanians have returned from Italy and Spain have returned, Romania is
quarantining the returnees in buildings as close to her borders as possible
and where my friend works, they’ve already decided to stop all the
children’s community activities for the foreseeable future. As she works
mostly with the poorest in Romanian society, this is more than an
inconvenience.

Sincerely Chris
John Ashby
2020-03-12 19:41:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Just listening to the briefing ...
On Thu, 12 Mar 2020 at 16:37:11, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
[]
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Penny
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
As I say, we'll all (or most) get it eventually - but if we can limit
They agreed with that.
[]
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Penny
Apparently Italy have done more testing than elsewhere - hence their
lockdown.
Hmm. So maybe we have the same level but don't know it? I think "not
_yet_" is probably the best answer to that.
They've said we've probably got about 10,000 cases - and are about 4
weeks behind Italy.
[]
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Penny
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
At the very least, we should be working from home where the jobs are
suitable, and operating separation of 1-2m in any gathering - yes, I
[]
Seems they're not thinking of enforcing things, but just relying on
people to behave. And they don't want to even recommend _that_ too
early, because people will "get tired" of doing it - and, at worst,
"give up" and emerge, right on the peak. Which is anticipated at being
10-14 weeks from now.
Fortuitously just in time for GCSE/A-level/Final examination season.

john
Clive Arthur
2020-03-12 18:19:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On 12/03/2020 00:47, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
<snip>
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
As I say, we'll all (or most) get it eventually -
I wonder how many are now actively trying to get it while there's still
some sort of working NHS?
--
Cheers
Clive
Sid Nuncius
2020-03-12 18:34:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Clive Arthur
<snip>
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
As I say, we'll all (or most) get it eventually -
I wonder how many are now actively trying to get it while there's still
some sort of working NHS?
I think you'll find that it's no longer called the NHS, but that "Our
NHS" is now the official government name for it.

I should be well past the point of being aghast at the sheer two-faced,
mendacious hypocrisy of politicians, but they do still manage it
occasionally.
--
Sid (Make sure Matron is away when you reply)
Mike
2020-03-12 18:42:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by Clive Arthur
<snip>
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
As I say, we'll all (or most) get it eventually -
I wonder how many are now actively trying to get it while there's still
some sort of working NHS?
I think you'll find that it's no longer called the NHS, but that "Our
NHS" is now the official government name for it.
I should be well past the point of being aghast at the sheer two-faced,
mendacious hypocrisy of politicians, but they do still manage it
occasionally.
Yes, the tories are ‘Getting it Done’ as you well know. No need to be
aghasted at all, we may trust that lot implicitly and trust them with our
lives, our property, our wealth.....
--
Toodle Pip
Sam Plusnet
2020-03-12 21:34:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by Clive Arthur
<snip>
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
As I say, we'll all (or most) get it eventually -
I wonder how many are now actively trying to get it while there's
still some sort of working NHS?
I think you'll find that it's no longer called the NHS, but that "Our
NHS" is now the official government name for it.
I should be well past the point of being aghast at the sheer two-faced,
mendacious hypocrisy of politicians, but they do still manage it
occasionally.
I understand that some Political research institutes are dedicated to
finding new, innovative forms of mendacity.
It's a dirty job, but someone... etc. etc.
--
Sam Plusnet
Vicky Ayech
2020-03-11 17:39:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 11 Mar 2020 14:57:20 +0000, Sid Nuncius
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by Vicky Ayech
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/health-minister-nadine-dorries-tests-positive-for-coronavirus/ar-BB110NZD?ocid=spartandhp
Most umrats will have seenthis news. She was at Number 10 in the
infectious period, the day she felt ill.
I find myself harbouring the ignoble hope that Dominic Cummings has an
underlying health condition.
YANAOU.
Rosalind Mitchell
2020-03-11 18:38:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by Vicky Ayech
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/health-minister-nadine-
dorries-tests-positive-for-coronavirus/ar-BB110NZD?ocid=spartandhp
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by Vicky Ayech
Most umrats will have seenthis news. She was at Number 10 in the
infectious period, the day she felt ill.
I find myself harbouring the ignoble hope that Dominic Cummings has an
underlying health condition.
Almost certainly an ASD although I wouldn't want him linked with mine in
any way.

R
Rosalind Mitchell
2020-03-11 18:13:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Vicky Ayech
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/health-minister-nadine-
dorries-tests-positive-for-coronavirus/ar-BB110NZD?ocid=spartandhp
Post by Vicky Ayech
Most umrats will have seenthis news. She was at Number 10 in the
infectious period, the day she felt ill. She also went though the lobby
to vote twice in the last week so mingled with hundreds of MPS.
Could we have a cull? How many are over 65?
How many people they came into contact with would go to the Lrods where
many are over 65?
#just saying
My MP Carol Monaghan has been tweeting about being crammed into lobbies.
Just the sort of situation you'd think they'd try to avoid. I don't think
Carol would have been in the same lobby as the Doris but even so...

https://twitter.com/CMonaghanSNP/status/1237515640509837319

Carol also draws our attention to the Duke's latest outfit. Alison
Thewliss's patch not Carol's and I haven't been into town to have a look
yet.

https://twitter.com/CMonaghanSNP/status/1237764298744750086

R
BrritSki
2020-03-11 18:36:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Vicky Ayech
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/health-minister-nadine-
dorries-tests-positive-for-coronavirus/ar-BB110NZD?ocid=spartandhp
Post by Vicky Ayech
Most umrats will have seenthis news. She was at Number 10 in the
infectious period, the day she felt ill. She also went though the lobby
to vote twice in the last week so mingled with hundreds of MPS.
Could we have a cull? How many are over 65?
How many people they came into contact with would go to the Lrods where
many are over 65?
#just saying
My MP Carol Monaghan has been tweeting about being crammed into lobbies.
Just the sort of situation you'd think they'd try to avoid.
Agreed.

And why did the BBC 6 oclock News send a reporter to the testing lab.
just so he could put on a white coat to do his report ? How much of the
lab 's time did he waste ?

And then send a reporter to walk around in Rome reporting ? When the
whole effing country is in lockdown. I hope the Carabinieri lock him up.

</rant>
Rosalind Mitchell
2020-03-11 19:09:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by BrritSki
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Vicky Ayech
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/health-minister-nadine-
dorries-tests-positive-for-coronavirus/ar-BB110NZD?ocid=spartandhp
Post by Vicky Ayech
Most umrats will have seenthis news. She was at Number 10 in the
infectious period, the day she felt ill. She also went though the
lobby to vote twice in the last week so mingled with hundreds of MPS.
Could we have a cull? How many are over 65?
How many people they came into contact with would go to the Lrods
where many are over 65?
#just saying
My MP Carol Monaghan has been tweeting about being crammed into lobbies.
Just the sort of situation you'd think they'd try to avoid.
Agreed.
Look, Britters, I'm gettin seriously worried about this. It ain't roight.

R
BrritSki
2020-03-11 19:37:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rosalind Mitchell
Post by BrritSki
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Vicky Ayech
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/health-minister-nadine-
dorries-tests-positive-for-coronavirus/ar-BB110NZD?ocid=spartandhp
Post by Vicky Ayech
Most umrats will have seenthis news. She was at Number 10 in the
infectious period, the day she felt ill. She also went though the
lobby to vote twice in the last week so mingled with hundreds of MPS.
Could we have a cull? How many are over 65?
How many people they came into contact with would go to the Lrods
where many are over 65?
#just saying
My MP Carol Monaghan has been tweeting about being crammed into lobbies.
Just the sort of situation you'd think they'd try to avoid.
Agreed.
Look, Britters, I'm gettin seriously worried about this. It ain't roight.
T'ain't proper....
Kate B
2020-03-11 20:54:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by BrritSki
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Vicky Ayech
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/health-minister-nadine-
dorries-tests-positive-for-coronavirus/ar-BB110NZD?ocid=spartandhp
Post by Vicky Ayech
Most  umrats will have seenthis news. She was at Number 10 in the
infectious period, the day she felt ill. She also went though the lobby
to vote twice in the last week so mingled with hundreds of MPS.
Could we have a cull? How many are over 65?
How many people they came into contact with would go to the Lrods where
many are over 65?
#just saying
My MP Carol Monaghan has been tweeting about being crammed into lobbies.
Just the sort of situation you'd think they'd try to avoid.
Agreed.
And why did the BBC 6 oclock News send a reporter to the testing lab.
just so he could put on a white coat to do his report ?  How much of the
lab 's time did he waste ?
Didn't see that edition, but if it was the usual health chap then he's
been going round labs in a white coat for days now. Presumably
thoroughly disinfected between visits.
Post by BrritSki
And then send a reporter to walk around in Rome reporting ? When the
whole effing country is in lockdown. I hope the Carabinieri lock him up.
And if it's the usual Rome chap then he lives there. I don't see why he
shouldn't earn his crust by wandering around the deserted streets.
According to his report yesterday, the lockdown is very approximate anyway.
--
Kate B
London
BrritSki
2020-03-11 21:23:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Kate B
Post by BrritSki
And then send a reporter to walk around in Rome reporting ? When the
whole effing country is in lockdown. I hope the Carabinieri lock him up.
And if it's the usual Rome chap then he lives there. I don't see why he
shouldn't earn his crust by wandering around the deserted streets.
According to his report yesterday, the lockdown is very approximate anyway.
Yes, because twats like him are wandering around the streets :/

If he lives there he should know better from what I'm seeing from
friends in Ceriana.
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