Discussion:
susan
(too old to reply)
Chris McMillan
2019-01-15 19:08:55 UTC
Permalink
I don’t often want to scratch someone’s eyes out, but this evening!!!???
Ggggrrrrroooowwwellll!

Sincerely Chris
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2019-01-15 19:26:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris McMillan
I don’t often want to scratch someone’s eyes out, but this evening!!!???
Ggggrrrrroooowwwellll!
Sincerely Chris
Did Ambridge ever _have_ a ducking stool?
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"The great tragedy of science, the slaying of a beautiful theory by an ugly
fact. - Thomas Henry Huxley
Mike
2019-01-16 08:46:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Chris McMillan
I don’t often want to scratch someone’s eyes out, but this evening!!!???
Ggggrrrrroooowwwellll!
Sincerely Chris
Did Ambridge ever _have_ a ducking stool?
Witch end of the pond should we site the mechanism?
--
Toodle Pip
Vicky Ayech
2019-01-16 10:14:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I don’t often want to scratch someone’s eyes out, but this evening!!!???
Ggggrrrrroooowwwellll!
Sincerely Chris
Did Ambridge ever _have_ a ducking stool?
Witch end of the pond should we site the mechanism?
Ok but as long as we agree there are male witches too.
Sid Nuncius
2019-01-16 10:59:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Mike
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Did Ambridge ever _have_ a ducking stool?
Witch end of the pond should we site the mechanism?
Ok but as long as we agree there are male witches too.
Or perhaps we could agree that the idea of a witch is a superstitious
fiction and that, in reality, there are no witches of any kind?[1]

I know that there are people who call themselves witches and some who
sincerely believe this to have some basis in reality. But then, people
believe all sorts of things. It doesn't necessarily make them true.

[1]Oh, hello, Granny Weatherwax. I didn't see you there.
<gulp>
:o)
--
Sid (Make sure Matron is away when you reply)
Vicky Ayech
2019-01-16 11:48:52 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 10:59:07 +0000, Sid Nuncius
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Mike
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Did Ambridge ever _have_ a ducking stool?
Witch end of the pond should we site the mechanism?
Ok but as long as we agree there are male witches too.
Or perhaps we could agree that the idea of a witch is a superstitious
fiction and that, in reality, there are no witches of any kind?[1]
I know that there are people who call themselves witches and some who
sincerely believe this to have some basis in reality. But then, people
believe all sorts of things. It doesn't necessarily make them true.
[1]Oh, hello, Granny Weatherwax. I didn't see you there.
<gulp>
:o)
That is the point! You might think it is just Headology. I couldn't
possibly comment. Would you accept Wiccans? That is just an old
religion with herbal remedies. And if Christians can believe some of
the things they do then Wiccans can believe some of the magicks they
do?

Did Pratchett get borrowing animals from Merlin stories do you think?

I think either I or others posted about the Louise Penny Gamache
Canadian detective books. Have you read them? They don't contain
witches exactly but more the attitude that there are more things in
heaven and earth etc..
Mike
2019-01-16 11:00:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Mike
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I don’t often want to scratch someone’s eyes out, but this evening!!!???
Ggggrrrrroooowwwellll!
Sincerely Chris
Did Ambridge ever _have_ a ducking stool?
Witch end of the pond should we site the mechanism?
Ok but as long as we agree there are male witches too.
Warlocks?
--
Toodle Pip
John Ashby
2019-01-16 11:34:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Mike
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I don’t often want to scratch someone’s eyes out, but this evening!!!???
Ggggrrrrroooowwwellll!
Sincerely Chris
Did Ambridge ever _have_ a ducking stool?
Witch end of the pond should we site the mechanism?
Ok but as long as we agree there are male witches too.
Warlocks?
No, it's true.

john
Mike
2019-01-16 12:01:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Ashby
Post by Mike
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Mike
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I don’t often want to scratch someone’s eyes out, but this evening!!!???
Ggggrrrrroooowwwellll!
Sincerely Chris
Did Ambridge ever _have_ a ducking stool?
Witch end of the pond should we site the mechanism?
Ok but as long as we agree there are male witches too.
Warlocks?
No, it's true.
john
I sets them up....
--
Toodle Pip
Sam Plusnet
2019-01-16 23:28:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Chris McMillan
I don’t often want to scratch someone’s eyes out, but this evening!!!???
Ggggrrrrroooowwwellll!
Sincerely Chris
Did Ambridge ever _have_ a ducking stool?
Witch end of the pond should we site the mechanism?
I envision a medieval multi purpose device.
A combined ducking stool and trebuchet.
--
Sam Plusnet
Mike
2019-01-17 08:39:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Mike
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Chris McMillan
I don’t often want to scratch someone’s eyes out, but this evening!!!???
Ggggrrrrroooowwwellll!
Sincerely Chris
Did Ambridge ever _have_ a ducking stool?
Witch end of the pond should we site the mechanism?
I envision a medieval multi purpose device.
A combined ducking stool and trebuchet.
Do you cut the head off as amo before or after drowning?
--
Toodle Pip
Nick Odell
2019-01-17 10:07:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Mike
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Chris McMillan
I don’t often want to scratch someone’s eyes out, but this evening!!!???
Ggggrrrrroooowwwellll!
Sincerely Chris
Did Ambridge ever _have_ a ducking stool?
Witch end of the pond should we site the mechanism?
I envision a medieval multi purpose device.
A combined ducking stool and trebuchet.
Do you cut the head off as amo before or after drowning?
For each of my versions it would be preferable to leave the head
attached. The Mk.1 vertical drop stool uses the witch as the
counterweight to the missile so every extra kilo counts whilst in the
Mk.2 the witch is the missile: the reverse-mounted ducking chair being
cranked back into the water before having its contents flung against the
castle wall. I consider the Mk.2 to be more progressive: being flung
against a castle wall is generally considered unsurvivable thus none of
the victims will have been proved to be witches which aligns fairly
closely with the modern view that there are no such things.

Nick
Steve Hague
2019-01-17 10:36:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Mike
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Mike
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Chris McMillan
I don’t often want to scratch someone’s eyes out, but this evening!!!???
Ggggrrrrroooowwwellll!
Sincerely Chris
Did Ambridge ever _have_ a ducking stool?
Witch end of the pond should we site the mechanism?
I envision a medieval multi purpose device.
A combined ducking stool and trebuchet.
Do you cut the head off as amo before or after drowning?
For each of my versions it would be preferable to leave the head
attached. The Mk.1 vertical drop stool uses the witch as the
counterweight to the missile so every extra kilo counts whilst in the
Mk.2 the witch is the missile: the reverse-mounted ducking chair being
cranked back into the water before having its contents flung against the
castle wall. I consider the Mk.2 to be more progressive: being flung
against a castle wall is generally considered unsurvivable thus none of
the victims will have been proved to be witches which aligns fairly
closely with the modern view that there are no such things.
Nick
I think it outrageous that people who self- identify as witches don't
have their choice of identity respected by society.
Steve
Nick Odell
2019-01-17 10:56:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Hague
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Mike
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Mike
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Chris McMillan
I don’t often want to scratch someone’s eyes out, but this evening!!!???
Ggggrrrrroooowwwellll!
Sincerely Chris
Did Ambridge ever _have_ a ducking stool?
Witch end of the pond should we site the mechanism?
I envision a medieval multi purpose device.
A combined ducking stool and trebuchet.
Do you cut the head off as amo before or after drowning?
For each of my versions it would be preferable to leave the head
attached. The Mk.1 vertical drop stool uses the witch as the
counterweight to the missile so every extra kilo counts whilst in the
Mk.2 the witch is the missile: the reverse-mounted ducking chair being
cranked back into the water before having its contents flung against
the castle wall. I consider the Mk.2 to be more progressive: being
flung against a castle wall is generally considered unsurvivable thus
none of the victims will have been proved to be witches which aligns
fairly closely with the modern view that there are no such things.
Nick
I think it outrageous that people who self- identify as witches don't
have their choice of identity respected by society.
I never took you for a snowflake, Steve?

Nick
Steve Hague
2019-01-17 13:55:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Steve Hague
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Mike
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Mike
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Chris McMillan
I don’t often want to scratch someone’s eyes out, but this evening!!!???
Ggggrrrrroooowwwellll!
Sincerely Chris
Did Ambridge ever _have_ a ducking stool?
Witch end of the pond should we site the mechanism?
I envision a medieval multi purpose device.
A combined ducking stool and trebuchet.
Do you cut the head off as amo before or after drowning?
For each of my versions it would be preferable to leave the head
attached. The Mk.1 vertical drop stool uses the witch as the
counterweight to the missile so every extra kilo counts whilst in the
Mk.2 the witch is the missile: the reverse-mounted ducking chair
being cranked back into the water before having its contents flung
being flung against a castle wall is generally considered
unsurvivable thus none of the victims will have been proved to be
witches which aligns fairly closely with the modern view that there
are no such things.
Nick
I think it outrageous that people who self- identify as witches don't
have their choice of identity respected by society.
I never took you for a snowflake, Steve?
Nick
I think of myself as more of a hailstone.
Steve
Mike
2019-01-17 14:28:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Hague
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Steve Hague
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Mike
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Mike
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Chris McMillan
I don’t often want to scratch someone’s eyes out, but this
evening!!!???
Ggggrrrrroooowwwellll!
Sincerely Chris
Did Ambridge ever _have_ a ducking stool?
Witch end of the pond should we site the mechanism?
I envision a medieval multi purpose device.
A combined ducking stool and trebuchet.
Do you cut the head off as amo before or after drowning?
For each of my versions it would be preferable to leave the head
attached. The Mk.1 vertical drop stool uses the witch as the
counterweight to the missile so every extra kilo counts whilst in the
Mk.2 the witch is the missile: the reverse-mounted ducking chair
being cranked back into the water before having its contents flung
being flung against a castle wall is generally considered
unsurvivable thus none of the victims will have been proved to be
witches which aligns fairly closely with the modern view that there
are no such things.
Nick
I think it outrageous that people who self- identify as witches don't
have their choice of identity respected by society.
I never took you for a snowflake, Steve?
Nick
I think of myself as more of a hailstone.
Steve
Hard, cold and falls on someone from a great height?
--
Toodle Pip
SODAM
2019-01-17 23:00:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Hague
Post by Nick Odell
I never took you for a snowflake, Steve?
Nick
I think of myself as more of a hailstone.
Steve
I shovelled lots of Steve in both forms off the drive and paths today. Just
about to go out and sprinkle salt so that I can try getting the SODAMobile
out tomorrow. <sigh>
--
SODAM
The thinking umrat’s choice for editor
Chris McMillan
2019-01-18 12:24:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by SODAM
Post by Steve Hague
Post by Nick Odell
I never took you for a snowflake, Steve?
Nick
I think of myself as more of a hailstone.
Steve
I shovelled lots of Steve in both forms off the drive and paths today. Just
about to go out and sprinkle salt so that I can try getting the SODAMobile
out tomorrow. <sigh>
Well, you would return to the frozen north instead of staying here! :).
Get the dog on it.

Sincerely Chris
SODAM
2019-01-18 13:08:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris McMillan
Post by SODAM
Post by Steve Hague
Post by Nick Odell
I never took you for a snowflake, Steve?
Nick
I think of myself as more of a hailstone.
Steve
I shovelled lots of Steve in both forms off the drive and paths today. Just
about to go out and sprinkle salt so that I can try getting the SODAMobile
out tomorrow. <sigh>
Well, you would return to the frozen north instead of staying here! :).
Get the dog on it.
Sincerely Chris
I don’t think a chihuahua would be much good pulling a sled.
--
SODAM
The thinking umrat’s choice for editor
Mike
2019-01-18 13:18:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by SODAM
Post by Chris McMillan
Post by SODAM
Post by Steve Hague
Post by Nick Odell
I never took you for a snowflake, Steve?
Nick
I think of myself as more of a hailstone.
Steve
I shovelled lots of Steve in both forms off the drive and paths today. Just
about to go out and sprinkle salt so that I can try getting the SODAMobile
out tomorrow. <sigh>
Well, you would return to the frozen north instead of staying here! :).
Get the dog on it.
Sincerely Chris
I don’t think a chihuahua would be much good pulling a sled.
A Dinky sled?
--
Toodle Pip
Nick Leverton
2019-01-18 13:18:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris McMillan
Post by SODAM
Post by Steve Hague
Post by Nick Odell
I never took you for a snowflake, Steve?
Nick
I think of myself as more of a hailstone.
Steve
I shovelled lots of Steve in both forms off the drive and paths today. Just
about to go out and sprinkle salt so that I can try getting the SODAMobile
out tomorrow. <sigh>
Well, you would return to the frozen north instead of staying here! :).
Get the dog on it.
Sincerely Chris
I don’t think a chihuahua would be much good pulling a sled.
Either way, just don't eat the yellow snow.

Nick
--
"The Internet, a sort of ersatz counterfeit of real life"
-- Janet Street-Porter, BBC2, 19th March 1996
Penny
2019-01-18 13:45:13 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 18 Jan 2019 13:18:05 +0000 (UTC), Nick Leverton <***@leverton.org>
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Nick Leverton
Post by Chris McMillan
Post by SODAM
Post by Steve Hague
Post by Nick Odell
I never took you for a snowflake, Steve?
Nick
I think of myself as more of a hailstone.
Steve
I shovelled lots of Steve in both forms off the drive and paths today. Just
about to go out and sprinkle salt so that I can try getting the SODAMobile
out tomorrow. <sigh>
Well, you would return to the frozen north instead of staying here! :).
Get the dog on it.
Sincerely Chris
I don’t think a chihuahua would be much good pulling a sled.
Either way, just don't eat the yellow snow.
The met office graphic for this area specifically said Yellow Snow which
made me smile. The stuff falling out of the sky was white though.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Chris McMillan
2019-01-18 19:17:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by SODAM
Post by Chris McMillan
Post by SODAM
Post by Steve Hague
Post by Nick Odell
I never took you for a snowflake, Steve?
Nick
I think of myself as more of a hailstone.
Steve
I shovelled lots of Steve in both forms off the drive and paths today. Just
about to go out and sprinkle salt so that I can try getting the SODAMobile
out tomorrow. <sigh>
Well, you would return to the frozen north instead of staying here! :).
Get the dog on it.
Sincerely Chris
I don’t think a chihuahua would be much good pulling a sled.
Giggle.

Sincerely Chris
Sam Plusnet
2019-01-17 20:55:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Sam Plusnet
I envision a medieval multi purpose device.
A combined ducking stool and trebuchet.
For each of my versions it would be preferable to leave the head
attached. The Mk.1 vertical drop stool uses the witch as the
counterweight to the missile so every extra kilo counts whilst in the
Mk.2 the witch is the missile: the reverse-mounted ducking chair being
cranked back into the water before having its contents flung against the
castle wall. I consider the Mk.2 to be more progressive: being flung
against a castle wall is generally considered unsurvivable thus none of
the victims will have been proved to be witches which aligns fairly
closely with the modern view that there are no such things.
Clearly the Middle Ages made a terrible decision when they failed to
employ UMRA as design consultants.
--
Sam Plusnet
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2019-01-17 13:41:35 UTC
Permalink
[]
Post by Mike
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Mike
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Did Ambridge ever _have_ a ducking stool?
Witch end of the pond should we site the mechanism?
I envision a medieval multi purpose device.
A combined ducking stool and trebuchet.
Do you cut the head off as amo before or after drowning?
BTN? (I wasn't thinking of a ducking stool as being used to actually
drown, just express feeling ...)

JPG
---


--
Are petitions unfair? See 255soft.uk (YOUR VOTE COUNTS)! [Pass it on.]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Lewis: ... d'you think there's a god?
Morse: ... There are times when I wish to god there was one. (Inspector Morse.)
Sid Nuncius
2019-01-17 18:20:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Mike
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Mike
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Did Ambridge ever _have_ a ducking stool?
Witch end of the pond should we site the mechanism?
I envision a medieval multi purpose device.
A combined ducking stool and trebuchet.
Do you cut the head off as amo before or after drowning?
BTN? (I wasn't thinking of a ducking stool as being used to actually
drown, just express feeling ...)
Not this time, I'm afraid.
--
Sid (Make sure Matron is away when you reply)
LFS
2019-01-15 19:29:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris McMillan
I don’t often want to scratch someone’s eyes out, but this evening!!!???
Ggggrrrrroooowwwellll!
Sincerely Chris
Likewise.
--
Laura (emulate St George for email)
Vicky Ayech
2019-01-15 21:40:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by LFS
I don’t often want to scratch someone’s eyes out, but this evening!!!???
Ggggrrrrroooowwwellll!
Sincerely Chris
Likewise.
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
My mother could tell by looking usually if someone was pregnant. She
was a beautician and the skin changes. She knew with me and with a
friend/neighbour. Ok I can only think of 2 but think there were
others.
LFS
2019-01-16 06:08:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by LFS
Post by Chris McMillan
I don’t often want to scratch someone’s eyes out, but this evening!!!???
Ggggrrrrroooowwwellll!
Sincerely Chris
Likewise.
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
My mother could tell by looking usually if someone was pregnant. She
was a beautician and the skin changes. She knew with me and with a
friend/neighbour. Ok I can only think of 2 but think there were
others.
On a rare visit to my GP (I didn't like him) I had to see one of the
others in the practice who I had never met before. I had a bunch of what
appeared to me to be unrelated symptoms. He listened to me and asked if
there was any chance that I could be pregnant. I was rather shocked as
none of the symptoms seemed relevant but he was right. Sometime later he
told me that he had known just by looking at my face.

He was a wonderful doctor, delivered both children and looked after us
very well for many years. He was a brilliant diagnostician which helped
me a great deal: I developed two serious health problems which were
dealt with very effectively due to early intervention because he spotted
them.
--
Laura (emulate St George for email)
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2019-01-16 15:51:10 UTC
Permalink
In message <***@mid.individual.net>, LFS
<***@gmail.com> writes:
[]
Post by LFS
On a rare visit to my GP (I didn't like him) I had to see one of the
others in the practice who I had never met before. I had a bunch of
what appeared to me to be unrelated symptoms. He listened to me and
asked if there was any chance that I could be pregnant. I was rather
shocked as none of the symptoms seemed relevant but he was right.
Sometime later he told me that he had known just by looking at my face.
I can easily believe it; I presume it comes with experience, and
possibly even the doctor couldn't say how the diagnosis was made.
Post by LFS
He was a wonderful doctor, delivered both children and looked after us
very well for many years. He was a brilliant diagnostician which helped
me a great deal: I developed two serious health problems which were
dealt with very effectively due to early intervention because he
spotted them.
My grandma had been seeing the same doctor - whom she liked (though I
think this was after the kindly Doctor Brown in the bench) - for ages.
She had to see a young locum once, who diagnosed a thyroid problem. Once
she was on the relevant drugs, we got our old cheerful grandma back; she
had become a - not quite miserable, but sort of her attitude was I
should expect lots of problems at my age, to the extent that visiting
her was rather a duty than a pleasure. After the diagnosis, she became -
well, happy with her lot is how I'd put it.
[]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

User Error: Replace user, hit any key to continue.
Penny
2019-01-16 17:13:58 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 15:51:10 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
she
had become a - not quite miserable, but sort of her attitude was I
should expect lots of problems at my age, to the extent that visiting
her was rather a duty than a pleasure.
Sounds like my M-i-L who really seemed to *enjoy* ill health. I think she
was lonely and perhaps mildly depressed but visiting her was a chore.

I am slightly shocked to realise she was younger than I am now when we
first met.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2019-01-16 17:47:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Penny
On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 15:51:10 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
she
had become a - not quite miserable, but sort of her attitude was I
should expect lots of problems at my age, to the extent that visiting
her was rather a duty than a pleasure.
Sounds like my M-i-L who really seemed to *enjoy* ill health. I think she
was lonely and perhaps mildly depressed but visiting her was a chore.
I am slightly shocked to realise she was younger than I am now when we
first met.
Too late for your MIL, but I would urge anyone who has such a
friend/relation/whatever to try to get them looked at by other than
their usual doctor, or - if they're not regularly "under" one - a doctor
at all. I wouldn't normally give credence to such claims, but it really
did change grandma's character - and, I wouldn't have expected that from
treatment of a thyroid problem. (IANAD - maybe that _is_ a well-known
side-effect of curing that.)

Sorry, I don't have any ideas in how to persuade such a person to go to
a doctor.


--
Are petitions unfair? See 255soft.uk (YOUR VOTE COUNTS)! [Pass it on.]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"This is a one line proof... if we start sufficiently far to the left."
[Cambridge University Math Dept.]
Penny
2019-01-16 23:22:06 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 17:47:26 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Too late for your MIL, but I would urge anyone who has such a
friend/relation/whatever to try to get them looked at by other than
their usual doctor, or - if they're not regularly "under" one - a doctor
at all. I wouldn't normally give credence to such claims, but it really
did change grandma's character - and, I wouldn't have expected that from
treatment of a thyroid problem. (IANAD - maybe that _is_ a well-known
side-effect of curing that.)
Anything which leaves you feeling lethargic, generally 'not quite right'
and has come on gradually is likely to make you a bit grumpy. If you do go
to the doctor with such symptoms they may run some blood tests which don't
show what they think it might be so tell you it's just your age, or to go
for a walk.
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Sorry, I don't have any ideas in how to persuade such a person to go to
a doctor.
Going to the right doctor is the trick - see above.

Sometimes Dr Google, or people in a newsgroup/facebook group do help. I
eventually prescribed myself high dose Vitamin D and seem to have recovered
some of my mojo and stopped getting quite so many crippling abdominal
muscle cramps.

The only GP (I saw 3) who had any suggestion decided my problem was a lack
of calcium and told me to drink milk. I don't drink milk so I tried calcium
+ vitD tablets which seemed to help a bit with the cramp but not the
lethargy. It's cheap and easy too - most people who live in UK are low in
VitD.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
LFS
2019-01-17 08:10:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Penny
On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 17:47:26 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Too late for your MIL, but I would urge anyone who has such a
friend/relation/whatever to try to get them looked at by other than
their usual doctor, or - if they're not regularly "under" one - a doctor
at all. I wouldn't normally give credence to such claims, but it really
did change grandma's character - and, I wouldn't have expected that from
treatment of a thyroid problem. (IANAD - maybe that _is_ a well-known
side-effect of curing that.)
Anything which leaves you feeling lethargic, generally 'not quite right'
and has come on gradually is likely to make you a bit grumpy. If you do go
to the doctor with such symptoms they may run some blood tests which don't
show what they think it might be so tell you it's just your age, or to go
for a walk.
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Sorry, I don't have any ideas in how to persuade such a person to go to
a doctor.
Going to the right doctor is the trick - see above.
Sometimes Dr Google, or people in a newsgroup/facebook group do help. I
eventually prescribed myself high dose Vitamin D and seem to have recovered
some of my mojo and stopped getting quite so many crippling abdominal
muscle cramps.
The only GP (I saw 3) who had any suggestion decided my problem was a lack
of calcium and told me to drink milk. I don't drink milk so I tried calcium
+ vitD tablets which seemed to help a bit with the cramp but not the
lethargy. It's cheap and easy too - most people who live in UK are low in
VitD.
Told my GP that I was feeling unusually tired. He could easily have
dismissed this as a symptom of my existing health problem but he decided
to run a range of tests. Ruled out thyroid problems but showed that my
vit D level was almost non existent. Which seemed odd as my diet
includes all the things like oily fish etc that are supposed to boost
vit D. GP said holidays in sunny places make a big difference but sadly
he couldn't prescribe that. Very high dose of vitD made me feel
instantly better, quite remarkable.
--
Laura (emulate St George for email)
BrritSki
2019-01-17 10:44:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by LFS
Post by Penny
Sometimes Dr Google, or people in a newsgroup/facebook group do help. I
eventually prescribed myself high dose Vitamin D and seem to have recovered
some of my mojo and stopped getting quite so many crippling abdominal
muscle cramps.
The only GP (I saw 3) who had any suggestion decided  my problem was a
lack
of calcium and told me to drink milk. I don't drink milk so I tried calcium
+ vitD tablets which seemed to help a bit with the cramp but not the
lethargy. It's cheap and easy too - most people who live in UK are low in
VitD.
Told my GP that I was feeling unusually tired. He could easily have
dismissed this as a symptom of my existing health problem but he decided
to run a range of tests. Ruled out thyroid problems but showed that my
vit D level was almost non existent. Which seemed odd as my diet
includes all the things like oily fish etc that are supposed to boost
vit D. GP said holidays in sunny places make a big difference but sadly
he couldn't prescribe that. Very high dose of vitD made me feel
instantly better, quite remarkable.
I came across this article yesterday which I found interesting, mainly
because waife's skin is very susceptible to the sun so she always covers
herself in SPF50 when outside. And she suffers from osteoporosis, so
maybe the 2 are linked.

There are 2 links to sytudies on Vit. D efficacy in para 5, but they
seem to be looking specifically at certain conditions which may not be
what was affecting Laura and Penny.

<https://www.outsideonline.com/2380751/sunscreen-sun-exposure-skin-cancer-science>
LFS
2019-01-19 12:24:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by BrritSki
Post by LFS
Post by Penny
Sometimes Dr Google, or people in a newsgroup/facebook group do help. I
eventually prescribed myself high dose Vitamin D and seem to have recovered
some of my mojo and stopped getting quite so many crippling abdominal
muscle cramps.
The only GP (I saw 3) who had any suggestion decided  my problem was
a lack
of calcium and told me to drink milk. I don't drink milk so I tried calcium
+ vitD tablets which seemed to help a bit with the cramp but not the
lethargy. It's cheap and easy too - most people who live in UK are low in
VitD.
Told my GP that I was feeling unusually tired. He could easily have
dismissed this as a symptom of my existing health problem but he
decided to run a range of tests. Ruled out thyroid problems but showed
that my vit D level was almost non existent. Which seemed odd as my
diet includes all the things like oily fish etc that are supposed to
boost vit D. GP said holidays in sunny places make a big difference
but sadly he couldn't prescribe that. Very high dose of vitD made me
feel instantly better, quite remarkable.
I came across this article yesterday which I found interesting, mainly
because waife's skin is very susceptible to the sun so she always covers
herself in SPF50 when outside. And she suffers from osteoporosis, so
maybe the 2 are linked.
There are 2 links to sytudies on Vit. D efficacy in para 5, but they
seem to be looking specifically at certain conditions which may not be
what was affecting Laura and Penny.
<https://www.outsideonline.com/2380751/sunscreen-sun-exposure-skin-cancer-science>
My GP said I should only take the very high dose supplement for a month
and prescribed a lower dose for the following month. During that time I
too came across an article quoting research casting doubt on the value
of vit D supplements so I asked him about it before renewing my
prescription and he confirmed that sunshine would be greatly preferable
and I might just want to take it during the winter.

I decided not to bother but I do make every effort to get outside in the
sun. But a short time in the sun often brings me out in a nasty rash.
Sunscreen doesn't seem to prevent this and is very expensive so I rarely
use it but it is a challenge to make the most of sunshine without
suffering the side effects!

The app mentioned at the end of that article looks very useful.
--
Laura (emulate St George for email)
Sid Nuncius
2019-01-19 18:50:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by LFS
My GP said I should only take the very high dose supplement for a month
and prescribed a lower dose for the following month. During that time I
too came across an article quoting research casting doubt on the value
of vit D supplements so I asked him about it before renewing my
prescription and he confirmed that sunshine would be greatly preferable
and I might just want to take it during the winter.
FWIW, the endocrinologists who monitor and treat my Paget's disease tell
me to take a 20,000IU (500 microgramme) dose weekly, and all take it
themselves. They swear by it and, from a bunch of world-class NHS
consultants who see the results every day, that's good enough for me.

(Repeat prescription sent electronically to my regular pharmacy on email
request by me. It's a very efficient service by both the excellent
Practice Pharmacist and the brilliant people at Bush Pharmacy. Usually
ready next day.)
--
Sid (Make sure Matron is away when you reply)
LFS
2019-01-20 06:17:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by LFS
My GP said I should only take the very high dose supplement for a
month and prescribed a lower dose for the following month. During that
time I too came across an article quoting research casting doubt on
the value of vit D supplements so I asked him about it before renewing
my prescription and he confirmed that sunshine would be greatly
preferable and I might just want to take it during the winter.
FWIW, the endocrinologists who monitor and treat my Paget's disease tell
me to take a 20,000IU (500 microgramme) dose weekly, and all take it
themselves.  They swear by it and, from a bunch of world-class NHS
consultants who see the results every day, that's good enough for me.
Is that just vit D or is combined with calcium? The combination has
unpleasant side effects on me. Many things that work well for others
have weird effects on me so I'm very cautious about what I take.
--
Laura (emulate St George for email)
Sid Nuncius
2019-01-20 06:39:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by LFS
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by LFS
My GP said I should only take the very high dose supplement for a
month and prescribed a lower dose for the following month. During
that time I too came across an article quoting research casting doubt
on the value of vit D supplements so I asked him about it before
renewing my prescription and he confirmed that sunshine would be
greatly preferable and I might just want to take it during the winter.
FWIW, the endocrinologists who monitor and treat my Paget's disease
tell me to take a 20,000IU (500 microgramme) dose weekly, and all take
it themselves.  They swear by it and, from a bunch of world-class NHS
consultants who see the results every day, that's good enough for me.
Is that just vit D or is combined with calcium? The combination has
unpleasant side effects on me. Many things that work well for others
have weird effects on me so I'm very cautious about what I take.
Understood - I know others in the same position. Mine are just vitamin
D: Colecalciferol 20,000unit capsules (Huxley Europe Ltd). The box says
Hux D3 capsules. They cost the NHS less than £3.00 for 20 capsules
(i.e. around £7.00 a year for my supply) so my GP is very happy to
prescribe them. Obviously, I don't know whether they'll suit you, but I
find them excellent - Friday Night Is Vitamin D Night.

(While googling for the details, I discovered that Lloyds pharmacy
charges £5.00 per tablet for a private prescription. That's some mark-up.)
--
Sid (Make sure Matron is away when you reply)
Vicky Ayech
2019-01-20 09:41:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by LFS
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by LFS
My GP said I should only take the very high dose supplement for a
month and prescribed a lower dose for the following month. During that
time I too came across an article quoting research casting doubt on
the value of vit D supplements so I asked him about it before renewing
my prescription and he confirmed that sunshine would be greatly
preferable and I might just want to take it during the winter.
FWIW, the endocrinologists who monitor and treat my Paget's disease tell
me to take a 20,000IU (500 microgramme) dose weekly, and all take it
themselves.  They swear by it and, from a bunch of world-class NHS
consultants who see the results every day, that's good enough for me.
Is that just vit D or is combined with calcium? The combination has
unpleasant side effects on me. Many things that work well for others
have weird effects on me so I'm very cautious about what I take.
What are the side effects? I've been on Calcichew, the combined pills,
for about 9 years. I have lots of effects but they could be from so
many causes :)
Penny
2019-01-20 11:15:36 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 20 Jan 2019 09:41:21 +0000, Vicky Ayech <***@gmail.com>
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by LFS
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by LFS
My GP said I should only take the very high dose supplement for a
month and prescribed a lower dose for the following month. During that
time I too came across an article quoting research casting doubt on
the value of vit D supplements so I asked him about it before renewing
my prescription and he confirmed that sunshine would be greatly
preferable and I might just want to take it during the winter.
FWIW, the endocrinologists who monitor and treat my Paget's disease tell
me to take a 20,000IU (500 microgramme) dose weekly, and all take it
themselves.  They swear by it and, from a bunch of world-class NHS
consultants who see the results every day, that's good enough for me.
Is that just vit D or is combined with calcium? The combination has
unpleasant side effects on me. Many things that work well for others
have weird effects on me so I'm very cautious about what I take.
What are the side effects? I've been on Calcichew, the combined pills,
for about 9 years. I have lots of effects but they could be from so
many causes :)
I took calcium and vitD for years with no side effects. I limited my intake
of calcium+vitD+magnesium because it upsets my stomach but was useful
sometimes...
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
LFS
2019-01-20 12:24:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by LFS
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by LFS
My GP said I should only take the very high dose supplement for a
month and prescribed a lower dose for the following month. During that
time I too came across an article quoting research casting doubt on
the value of vit D supplements so I asked him about it before renewing
my prescription and he confirmed that sunshine would be greatly
preferable and I might just want to take it during the winter.
FWIW, the endocrinologists who monitor and treat my Paget's disease tell
me to take a 20,000IU (500 microgramme) dose weekly, and all take it
themselves.  They swear by it and, from a bunch of world-class NHS
consultants who see the results every day, that's good enough for me.
Is that just vit D or is combined with calcium? The combination has
unpleasant side effects on me. Many things that work well for others
have weird effects on me so I'm very cautious about what I take.
What are the side effects? I've been on Calcichew, the combined pills,
for about 9 years. I have lots of effects but they could be from so
many causes :)
Severe digestive problems. Calcium seems to be the problem, vit D alone
is fine.

Oddly, some drugs that have known digestive side effects seem to work
perfectly well on my system.

I am also allergic to anti-histamine (which makes me terrifyingly
hyperactive and is many over-the-counter remedies these days, although I
can use it in cream form) and the standard anti nausea drugs make me
*really* sick.
--
Laura (emulate St George for email)
Penny
2019-01-20 13:09:36 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 20 Jan 2019 12:24:47 +0000, LFS <***@gmail.com>
scrawled in the dust...
Post by LFS
I am also allergic to anti-histamine (which makes me terrifyingly
hyperactive and is many over-the-counter remedies these days, although I
can use it in cream form) and the standard anti nausea drugs make me
*really* sick.
I've never met someone else who is allergic to antihistamine. It brings me
out in hives so when I get a histamine reaction to something else I resort
to calamine tea which seems to help a bit. On one occasion I made up a
strong brew with 8 tea bags and poured it into a tepid bath where I sat,
swabbing myself with the tea bags until it calmed down.

I used to be fine with them until I was given an injection of phenergan to
counteract the expected nausea from a morphine injection and to help me
sleep. I couldn't sleep at all as I was itching all night :(
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Mike
2019-01-20 13:32:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by LFS
I am also allergic to anti-histamine (which makes me terrifyingly
hyperactive and is many over-the-counter remedies these days, although I
can use it in cream form) and the standard anti nausea drugs make me
*really* sick.
I've never met someone else who is allergic to antihistamine. It brings me
out in hives so when I get a histamine reaction to something else I resort
to calamine tea which seems to help a bit. On one occasion I made up a
strong brew with 8 tea bags and poured it into a tepid bath where I sat,
swabbing myself with the tea bags until it calmed down.
I used to be fine with them until I was given an injection of phenergan to
counteract the expected nausea from a morphine injection and to help me
sleep. I couldn't sleep at all as I was itching all night :(
And I thought antihistamine was sometimes used after an encounter with a
hive;-)))
--
Toodle Pip
John Ashby
2019-01-20 14:00:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by LFS
I am also allergic to anti-histamine (which makes me terrifyingly
hyperactive and is many over-the-counter remedies these days, although I
can use it in cream form) and the standard anti nausea drugs make me
*really* sick.
I've never met someone else who is allergic to antihistamine. It brings me
out in hives so when I get a histamine reaction to something else I resort
to calamine tea which seems to help a bit. On one occasion I made up a
strong brew with 8 tea bags and poured it into a tepid bath where I sat,
swabbing myself with the tea bags until it calmed down.
I used to be fine with them until I was given an injection of phenergan to
counteract the expected nausea from a morphine injection and to help me
sleep. I couldn't sleep at all as I was itching all night :(
Can I just check, do you mean calamine or chamomile?

john
Penny
2019-01-20 14:21:30 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 20 Jan 2019 14:00:20 +0000, John Ashby <***@yahoo.com>
scrawled in the dust...
Post by John Ashby
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by LFS
I am also allergic to anti-histamine (which makes me terrifyingly
hyperactive and is many over-the-counter remedies these days, although I
can use it in cream form) and the standard anti nausea drugs make me
*really* sick.
I've never met someone else who is allergic to antihistamine. It brings me
out in hives so when I get a histamine reaction to something else I resort
to calamine tea which seems to help a bit. On one occasion I made up a
strong brew with 8 tea bags and poured it into a tepid bath where I sat,
swabbing myself with the tea bags until it calmed down.
I used to be fine with them until I was given an injection of phenergan to
counteract the expected nausea from a morphine injection and to help me
sleep. I couldn't sleep at all as I was itching all night :(
Can I just check, do you mean calamine or chamomile?
Doh!
Chamomile of course.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Penny
2019-01-19 13:45:08 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 17 Jan 2019 10:44:53 +0000, BrritSki <***@gmail.com>
scrawled in the dust...
Post by BrritSki
I came across this article yesterday which I found interesting, mainly
because waife's skin is very susceptible to the sun so she always covers
herself in SPF50 when outside. And she suffers from osteoporosis, so
maybe the 2 are linked.
There are 2 links to sytudies on Vit. D efficacy in para 5, but they
seem to be looking specifically at certain conditions which may not be
what was affecting Laura and Penny.
<https://www.outsideonline.com/2380751/sunscreen-sun-exposure-skin-cancer-science>
I have been a little concerned about the high-factor sunscreens I see being
used on my grandchildren since I became aware of the vitamin D thing in
regard to several problems I'd been experiencing. There was no sunscreen in
my childhood and we only used it on the beach (apart from that Australia
trip) when my children were young - I think factor 15 was the highest
available then and I tended to buy factor 8. I haven't used any myself for
years.

These days I'm photo-phobic so when it's sunny tend to wear a hat as well
as my reactolight specs. I also don't like hot weather much. One way and
another, unless the weather is 'moderate', there are few days when I go
outside with much exposed skin.

Back in that hot summer we had last year I was surprised when my cramp got
bad until I remembered that other old-fashioned cramp remedy - salt.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Mike
2019-01-19 14:00:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by BrritSki
I came across this article yesterday which I found interesting, mainly
because waife's skin is very susceptible to the sun so she always covers
herself in SPF50 when outside. And she suffers from osteoporosis, so
maybe the 2 are linked.
There are 2 links to sytudies on Vit. D efficacy in para 5, but they
seem to be looking specifically at certain conditions which may not be
what was affecting Laura and Penny.
<https://www.outsideonline.com/2380751/sunscreen-sun-exposure-skin-cancer-science>
I have been a little concerned about the high-factor sunscreens I see being
used on my grandchildren since I became aware of the vitamin D thing in
regard to several problems I'd been experiencing. There was no sunscreen in
my childhood and we only used it on the beach (apart from that Australia
trip) when my children were young - I think factor 15 was the highest
available then and I tended to buy factor 8. I haven't used any myself for
years.
These days I'm photo-phobic so when it's sunny tend to wear a hat as well
as my reactolight specs. I also don't like hot weather much. One way and
another, unless the weather is 'moderate', there are few days when I go
outside with much exposed skin.
Back in that hot summer we had last year I was surprised when my cramp got
bad until I remembered that other old-fashioned cramp remedy - salt.
Back in days of yore (50’s & early 60’s) skin saw sun through slapped-on
calamine lotion; factor - schmactor what???

Hackerchewly, having very fair skin, I have very low tolerance to exposure
to sun and have had several visits to horsepiddal dermatology department in
recent years.
--
Toodle Pip
Penny
2019-01-19 16:14:22 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 19 Jan 2019 14:00:28 GMT, Mike <***@ntlworld.com> scrawled
in the dust...
Back in days of yore (50’s & early 60’s) skin saw sun through slapped-on
calamine lotion; factor - schmactor what???
We only got that once we had sun burn. I don't think it helped much.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Mike
2019-01-19 16:37:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Penny
in the dust...
Back in days of yore (50’s & early 60’s) skin saw sun through slapped-on
calamine lotion; factor - schmactor what???
We only got that once we had sun burn. I don't think it helped much.
No, nor did I - I’m good at peeling (skin, that is, I rarely peel potatoes,
just scrub and cook).
--
Toodle Pip
Jenny M Benson
2019-01-17 10:46:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Penny
so tell you it's just your age,
My sister recently saw a physiotherapist because of severe pain in her
lower leg. She is normally very active and walks her dog several miles
twice a day. The physio told her "you have got 70-year-old knees, you
know." She was not amused as she has never experienced any problems
with her knees.
--
Jenny M Benson
http://jennygenes.blogspot.co.uk/
Penny
2019-01-17 11:37:41 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 17 Jan 2019 10:46:32 +0000, Jenny M Benson <***@hotmail.co.uk>
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Jenny M Benson
Post by Penny
so tell you it's just your age,
My sister recently saw a physiotherapist because of severe pain in her
lower leg. She is normally very active and walks her dog several miles
twice a day. The physio told her "you have got 70-year-old knees, you
know." She was not amused as she has never experienced any problems
with her knees.
When diagnosed with Osteoarthritis (wear and tear) following an x-ray I was
told the hip which was not giving me any pain was in a worse state than the
one which was. I pointed out they were both the same age.

Subsequently, having done a number of exercises specific to the problem I
realise I do use them differently and the one which gives little problem
has always been more 'flexible' than the other, since early childhood.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
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