Discussion:
I'm wondering about Bulb now.
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Vicky Ayech
2021-03-29 20:18:20 UTC
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My power company is Bulb, and they've asked me twice to have a smart
meter. I went through the application online and the last questions is
Some outdoor gas meters are stored in boxes with sloped lids, instead
of upright doors. These boxes are usually brown. It's really important
you tell us if you have a meter like this so the engineer can bring
the right equipment to replace it. And I clicked Yes, my gas meter is
in a box with a sloped lid.

The response then was We can't install a smart meter just yet
We'll update you when we can replace your meter
Our engineers can't replace your type of meter at the moment. We'll
send you an update when this changes. Sorry to keep you waiting.

Now they get the estimates wrong every time, keep suggesting I'd use
2000k 's worth of gas in a year! In an 11 year old terraced house with
double glazing. And we cook with electricity mostly. I complain a
lot and send lots of customer readings so we get sensible bills. I had
to email and complain to reduce the monthly DD as we are usually
around 150 or more in credit. Is that why no smart meter? They hope to
have my money in their a/c? Earning interest.

Has anyone else been refused the smart meter? I was not sure I wanted
one but in an attempt to change the algorithm we were sending readings
every other day for the last 2 months. We thought we'd go for the
smart meter.
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2021-03-29 21:14:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 at 21:18:20, Vicky Ayech <***@gmail.com>
wrote (my responses usually follow points raised):
[]
Post by Vicky Ayech
Now they get the estimates wrong every time, keep suggesting I'd use
2000k 's worth of gas in a year! In an 11 year old terraced house with
double glazing. And we cook with electricity mostly. I complain a
lot and send lots of customer readings so we get sensible bills. I had
to email and complain to reduce the monthly DD as we are usually
around 150 or more in credit. Is that why no smart meter? They hope to
I managed to persuade Octopus, though they're still doing it by DD, to
take for what I'd _actually_ used, rather than any predictive amount. It
took some effort, though
Post by Vicky Ayech
have my money in their a/c? Earning interest.
Ha! I doubt it'd be worth their effort. My bank has accounts yielding
from 0.01% (yes really!) to 0.3%; I don't think you can get as much as
1% from any of the mainstream ones.
Post by Vicky Ayech
Has anyone else been refused the smart meter? I was not sure I wanted
one but in an attempt to change the algorithm we were sending readings
every other day for the last 2 months. We thought we'd go for the
smart meter.
I suspect for once they're telling the truth and just don't have the
right gear at the moment; the cost to them of sending meter readers for,
say, a year, would I suspect far exceed any interest they could get by
temporarily overcharging you. So they _want_ to fit smart meters (that
can be read remotely).

If/when you _do_ get a smart meter, make sure it's a second generation
(or whatever the right term is) one - i. e. one that remains "smart" if
you change supplier. Get that in writing (or whatever).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Well, let's put it this way. I may not be as good as Olivier but on the other
hand I'm taller than him. - Roger Moore, quoted by Barry Norman
Mike McMillan
2021-03-30 07:31:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by Vicky Ayech
Now they get the estimates wrong every time, keep suggesting I'd use
2000k 's worth of gas in a year! In an 11 year old terraced house with
double glazing. And we cook with electricity mostly. I complain a
lot and send lots of customer readings so we get sensible bills. I had
to email and complain to reduce the monthly DD as we are usually
around 150 or more in credit. Is that why no smart meter? They hope to
I managed to persuade Octopus, though they're still doing it by DD, to
take for what I'd _actually_ used, rather than any predictive amount. It
took some effort, though
Post by Vicky Ayech
have my money in their a/c? Earning interest.
Ha! I doubt it'd be worth their effort. My bank has accounts yielding
from 0.01% (yes really!) to 0.3%; I don't think you can get as much as
1% from any of the mainstream ones.
Post by Vicky Ayech
Has anyone else been refused the smart meter? I was not sure I wanted
one but in an attempt to change the algorithm we were sending readings
every other day for the last 2 months. We thought we'd go for the
smart meter.
I suspect for once they're telling the truth and just don't have the
right gear at the moment; the cost to them of sending meter readers for,
say, a year, would I suspect far exceed any interest they could get by
temporarily overcharging you. So they _want_ to fit smart meters (that
can be read remotely).
If/when you _do_ get a smart meter, make sure it's a second generation
(or whatever the right term is) one - i. e. one that remains "smart" if
you change supplier. Get that in writing (or whatever).
Presumably referred to as ‘SMETS 2; as the less versatile (older) type are
‘SMETS 1’.
--
Toodle Pip (My other iPad is an old Pro)
Chris J Dixon
2021-03-30 07:36:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I managed to persuade Octopus, though they're still doing it by DD, to
take for what I'd _actually_ used, rather than any predictive amount. It
took some effort, though
Post by Vicky Ayech
have my money in their a/c? Earning interest.
Ha! I doubt it'd be worth their effort. My bank has accounts yielding
from 0.01% (yes really!) to 0.3%; I don't think you can get as much as
1% from any of the mainstream ones.
Whilst I was with Tonik Energy, they paid 3% on the balance of my
account, which worked in my favour. I was actually considering
deliberately overpaying. I just checked, and had missed the
announcement that they have since gone bust.

They took a long time to send my final bill when I changed
supplier, having to pay statutory compensation. Then about 6
months later they apparently recalculated and gave back a
significant refund.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham
'48/33 M B+ G++ A L(-) I S-- CH0(--)(p) Ar- T+ H0 ?Q
***@cdixon.me.uk @ChrisJDixon1
Plant amazing Acers.
Penny
2021-03-30 08:49:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 08:36:40 +0100, Chris J Dixon <***@cdixon.me.uk>
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Chris J Dixon
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I managed to persuade Octopus, though they're still doing it by DD, to
take for what I'd _actually_ used, rather than any predictive amount. It
took some effort, though
Post by Vicky Ayech
have my money in their a/c? Earning interest.
Ha! I doubt it'd be worth their effort. My bank has accounts yielding
from 0.01% (yes really!) to 0.3%; I don't think you can get as much as
1% from any of the mainstream ones.
Whilst I was with Tonik Energy, they paid 3% on the balance of my
account, which worked in my favour. I was actually considering
deliberately overpaying. I just checked, and had missed the
announcement that they have since gone bust.
They took a long time to send my final bill when I changed
supplier, having to pay statutory compensation. Then about 6
months later they apparently recalculated and gave back a
significant refund.
I was emailed by Greenstar Energy over a year ago, telling me they owed me
£18 and would send a cheque - no sign of it yet...
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Mike McMillan
2021-03-31 07:33:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Chris J Dixon
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I managed to persuade Octopus, though they're still doing it by DD, to
take for what I'd _actually_ used, rather than any predictive amount. It
took some effort, though
Post by Vicky Ayech
have my money in their a/c? Earning interest.
Ha! I doubt it'd be worth their effort. My bank has accounts yielding
from 0.01% (yes really!) to 0.3%; I don't think you can get as much as
1% from any of the mainstream ones.
Whilst I was with Tonik Energy, they paid 3% on the balance of my
account, which worked in my favour. I was actually considering
deliberately overpaying. I just checked, and had missed the
announcement that they have since gone bust.
They took a long time to send my final bill when I changed
supplier, having to pay statutory compensation. Then about 6
months later they apparently recalculated and gave back a
significant refund.
I was emailed by Greenstar Energy over a year ago, telling me they owed me
£18 and would send a cheque - no sign of it yet...
Perhaps they paid it into your ‘current’ account and you didn’t notice.
--
Toodle Pip (My other iPad is an old Pro)
Peter
2021-03-31 17:04:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Chris J Dixon
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I managed to persuade Octopus, though they're still doing it by DD, to
take for what I'd _actually_ used, rather than any predictive amount. It
took some effort, though
Post by Vicky Ayech
have my money in their a/c? Earning interest.
Ha! I doubt it'd be worth their effort. My bank has accounts yielding
from 0.01% (yes really!) to 0.3%; I don't think you can get as much as
1% from any of the mainstream ones.
Whilst I was with Tonik Energy, they paid 3% on the balance of my
account, which worked in my favour. I was actually considering
deliberately overpaying. I just checked, and had missed the
announcement that they have since gone bust.
They took a long time to send my final bill when I changed
supplier, having to pay statutory compensation. Then about 6
months later they apparently recalculated and gave back a
significant refund.
I don't pay for electricity. According to Kirchoff's current law, the
flow of current into my premises is equal to the flow of current out of
my premises, therefore I have consumed nothing. When I told my supplier
this, they repaid all the money that I had paid them in the past and
agreed not to charge me in future.
--
When, once, reference was made to a statesman almost universally
recognized as one of the villains of this century, in order to
induce him to a negative judgment, he replied: "My situation is
so different from his, that it is not for me to pass judgment".
Ernst Specker on Paul Bernays
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2021-03-31 19:09:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 31 Mar 2021 at 18:04:56, Peter <***@hotmail.com>
wrote (my responses usually follow points raised):
[]
Post by Peter
I don't pay for electricity. According to Kirchoff's current law, the
flow of current into my premises is equal to the flow of current out of
my premises, therefore I have consumed nothing. When I told my
supplier this, they repaid all the money that I had paid them in the
past and agreed not to charge me in future.
I think you're a century or so late: in the early days of electricity
supply, there were indeed claims from people who said they did indeed
return every electron supplied to them, or some similar argument, so
hadn't stolen anything. (Easier to claim for DC supplies I suppose!) I
don't know the details, but this was got round in pretty short order!
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

The death of democracy is not likely to be an assassination from ambush.
It will be a slow extinction from apathy, indifference, and undernourishment.
-Robert Maynard Hutchins, educator (1899-1977)
tiny hadron
2021-03-31 20:18:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
I don't pay for electricity. According to Kirchoff's current law, the
flow of current into my premises is equal to the flow of current out of
my premises, therefore I have consumed nothing. When I told my supplier
this, they repaid all the money that I had paid them in the past and
agreed not to charge me in future.
Ever tried donkey smuggling?
--
tiny
Sam Plusnet
2021-04-01 20:06:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by tiny hadron
I don't pay for electricity. According to Kirchoff's current law, the
flow of current into my premises is equal to the flow of current out of
my premises, therefore I have consumed nothing. When I told my supplier
this, they repaid all the money that I had paid them in the past and
agreed not to charge me in future.
Ever tried donkey smuggling?
In wheelbarrows?
--
Sam Plusnet
Penny
2021-03-29 22:22:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 21:18:20 +0100, Vicky Ayech <***@gmail.com>
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Vicky Ayech
My power company is Bulb, and they've asked me twice to have a smart
meter.
[...]
Bulb installed a smart meter here in October 2019.
It worked well for the first 6 months and I particularly liked the In Home
Display which showed how much my solar panels were generating at any given
time - useful on bright cold days, I ran an electric heater in the living
room (free) rather than switch the CH on.

In April 2020 the display stopped working and I reported it on a form on
the website. I can see from the two April statements this fixed the
automatic reading for gas but they still weren't getting electricity
readings and the IHD was still not working at all. I started an email
correspondence with a support person who told me how to cold-boot the
display unit. Since then that has shown gas usage. Still nothing working
for electricity. Several reboots of the communication hub later - no
change.

I finally got around to writing to the complaints department. The support
people have been lovely but haven't got the problem sorted.

I did send in readings through the summer last year but the electricity
meter is difficult to read and it was cold outside so I stopped sending
them.
Post by Vicky Ayech
Now they get the estimates wrong every time, keep suggesting I'd use
2000k 's worth of gas in a year! In an 11 year old terraced house with
double glazing.
That sounds completely crazy!
Post by Vicky Ayech
And we cook with electricity mostly. I complain a
lot and send lots of customer readings so we get sensible bills. I had
to email and complain to reduce the monthly DD as we are usually
around 150 or more in credit. Is that why no smart meter?
No, it's because you have the wrong sort of meter, it seems.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Penny
2021-09-20 22:50:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Penny
Bulb installed a smart meter here in October 2019.
It worked well for the first 6 months
[...]
Post by Penny
In April 2020 the display stopped working and I reported it on a form on
the website. I can see from the two April statements this fixed the
automatic reading for gas but they still weren't getting electricity
readings [...] Several reboots of the communication hub later - no
change.
I finally got around to writing to the complaints department*. The support
people have been lovely but haven't got the problem sorted.
* That was a year ago

About two weeks ago I got an email from Bulb telling me they needed to replace my smart meter and could I get in touch urgently to make an appointment - so I did.

A Siemens engineer showed up today, looked at the meter, looked a bit baffled as it all appeared to be working. He checked they really wanted him to replace the meter - yes. He replaced the meter, possibly the communication hub as well, and it all seems to be working again.

Hurrah!
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2021-09-20 23:23:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Penny
Post by Penny
Bulb installed a smart meter here in October 2019.
It worked well for the first 6 months
[...]
Post by Penny
In April 2020 the display stopped working and I reported it on a form on
the website. I can see from the two April statements this fixed the
automatic reading for gas but they still weren't getting electricity
readings [...] Several reboots of the communication hub later - no
change.
I finally got around to writing to the complaints department*. The support
people have been lovely but haven't got the problem sorted.
* That was a year ago
About two weeks ago I got an email from Bulb telling me they needed to
replace my smart meter and could I get in touch urgently to make an
appointment - so I did.
A Siemens engineer showed up today, looked at the meter, looked a bit
baffled as it all appeared to be working. He checked they really wanted
him to replace the meter - yes. He replaced the meter, possibly the
communication hub as well, and it all seems to be working again.
Hurrah!
He did what he was told.

(A friend was sent a new "router" by TalkTalk; it looked identical to
the one it replaced other than the one out of five sockets on the back
that was a different colour [red, yellow] was in a different place.)

I get the impression from the news coverage over the last day or few
that Bulb is now one of the "big six", though the smallest one and thus
most likely to go under.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Veni Vidi Vacuum [I came, I saw, It sucked] - ***@saslimited.demon.co.uk, 1998
Penny
2021-09-21 07:39:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 00:23:08 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I get the impression from the news coverage over the last day or few
that Bulb is now one of the "big six", though the smallest one and thus
most likely to go under.
I heard someone (possibly Martin Lewis?) explain recently that those on
variable tarries - like all Bulb customers - may end up better off in the
current price hike. I can't get my head around that at the moment. Perhaps
lots of people leaping onto existing fixed tarries will bankrupt the big
guys...
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Mike McMillan
2021-09-21 07:51:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Penny
On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 00:23:08 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I get the impression from the news coverage over the last day or few
that Bulb is now one of the "big six", though the smallest one and thus
most likely to go under.
I heard someone (possibly Martin Lewis?) explain recently that those on
variable tarries - like all Bulb customers - may end up better off in the
current price hike. I can't get my head around that at the moment. Perhaps
lots of people leaping onto existing fixed tarries will bankrupt the big
guys...
Well, if E-on go southward due to fixed tariffs leaving them bereft, in my
case they have no-one but themselves to blame as they strongly suggested
that I change to the fixed tariff they put us on about 6 weeks back… (ISTRT
I had about 5 emails at the time explaining my bill was going up and then
suggested I pay them about £30-40 more per month than my winter consumption
would require me to pay to cover this. When I suggested I preferred to hold
onto my money rather than lodge it in their coffers, they then came back
and suggested a fixed (lower) tariff could be offered to me and would I
accept that please?) I did accept it and at present, I am about a winter’s
month consumption in credit [ and if this increases, I shall request a
refund too! ]
--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2021-09-21 10:54:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 at 08:39:22, Penny <***@labyrinth.freeuk.com> wrote
(my responses usually follow points raised):
[]
Post by Penny
I heard someone (possibly Martin Lewis?) explain recently that those on
variable tarries - like all Bulb customers - may end up better off in the
current price hike. I can't get my head around that at the moment. Perhaps
lots of people leaping onto existing fixed tarries will bankrupt the big
guys...
Well, presumably the big guys are doing their best to withdraw the fixed
tariffs as fast as they can (are they actually obliged to offer fixed
ones, other than to customers already on them for a fixed duration). But
they're also having imposed on them, by Ofgen/Ofgas/Ofwhoever, customers
from gone-bust companies.

I _think_ no energy company actually wants _any_ more customers at the
moment: it's not actually been spelt out as such in black and white, but
I think they're all being obliged to sell us energy - even those on
variable tariffs, because of the cap - at less than they're having to
pay for it, which will obviously bankrupt all of them eventually, unless
the cap is raised a _lot_.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Anybody can garble quotations like that -- even with the Bible... Er... "And he
went and hanged himself (Matthew 27:5). Go, and do thou likewise (Luke 10:37)."
Tony Smith
2021-09-21 11:05:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tuesday, 21 September 2021 at 11:56:11 UTC+1, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
<snipped>
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I _think_ no energy company actually wants _any_ more customers at the
moment: it's not actually been spelt out as such in black and white, but
I think they're all being obliged to sell us energy - even those on
variable tariffs, because of the cap - at less than they're having to
pay for it, which will obviously bankrupt all of them eventually, unless
the cap is raised a _lot_.
Didn't something of this sort happen with electricity in California in 2000/1?
Nick Odell
2021-09-21 13:27:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 04:05:29 -0700 (PDT), Tony Smith
Post by Tony Smith
<snipped>
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I _think_ no energy company actually wants _any_ more customers at the
moment: it's not actually been spelt out as such in black and white, but
I think they're all being obliged to sell us energy - even those on
variable tariffs, because of the cap - at less than they're having to
pay for it, which will obviously bankrupt all of them eventually, unless
the cap is raised a _lot_.
Didn't something of this sort happen with electricity in California in 2000/1?
Texas?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Texas_power_crisis

Nick
Mike McMillan
2021-09-21 16:15:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Nick Odell
On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 04:05:29 -0700 (PDT), Tony Smith
Post by Tony Smith
<snipped>
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I _think_ no energy company actually wants _any_ more customers at the
moment: it's not actually been spelt out as such in black and white, but
I think they're all being obliged to sell us energy - even those on
variable tariffs, because of the cap - at less than they're having to
pay for it, which will obviously bankrupt all of them eventually, unless
the cap is raised a _lot_.
Didn't something of this sort happen with electricity in California in 2000/1?
Texas?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Texas_power_crisis
Nick
There seems to have been an extremely large number of ‘perfect storms’ in
the last 2-3 years.
--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan
Sid Nuncius
2021-09-21 18:07:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Nick Odell
On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 04:05:29 -0700 (PDT), Tony Smith
Post by Tony Smith
<snipped>
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I _think_ no energy company actually wants _any_ more customers at the
moment: it's not actually been spelt out as such in black and white, but
I think they're all being obliged to sell us energy - even those on
variable tariffs, because of the cap - at less than they're having to
pay for it, which will obviously bankrupt all of them eventually, unless
the cap is raised a _lot_.
Didn't something of this sort happen with electricity in California in 2000/1?
Texas?
Surely not! Mr Johnson promised not to raise Texas...and Boris is an
honourable man.
--
Sid
(Make sure Matron is away when you reply)
Nick Odell
2021-09-21 19:50:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 19:07:16 +0100, Sid Nuncius
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by Nick Odell
On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 04:05:29 -0700 (PDT), Tony Smith
Post by Tony Smith
<snipped>
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I _think_ no energy company actually wants _any_ more customers at the
moment: it's not actually been spelt out as such in black and white, but
I think they're all being obliged to sell us energy - even those on
variable tariffs, because of the cap - at less than they're having to
pay for it, which will obviously bankrupt all of them eventually, unless
the cap is raised a _lot_.
Didn't something of this sort happen with electricity in California in 2000/1?
Texas?
Surely not! Mr Johnson promised not to raise Texas...and Boris is an
honourable man.
Absolutely!

Why, only today appearing on NBC’s Today show in the US, he was asked
directly by interviewer Savannah Guthrie: “You have six kids?” He
replied: “Yes.”

When I'm next on that show, maybe they will ask me "You have read six
books?" I will then happily confirm that, yes, I have read six books.

Nick
Nick Odell
2021-09-21 14:06:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 00:23:08 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
<***@255soft.uk> wrote:

,snip>
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
(A friend was sent a new "router" by TalkTalk; it looked identical to
the one it replaced other than the one out of five sockets on the back
that was a different colour [red, yellow] was in a different place.)
<snip>

There might be a good reason for this.

I'm currently following a thread called "Landline conversion to
digital" in uk.d-i-y where they are talking about the replacement of
analogue, POTS, copper telephone wires by fibre connections. The
conversion of the whole country is supposed to have taken place by
2025 and it is already beginning to happen in some places.

In many of those locations it appears that broadband routers are being
replaced. The new router has a BT431A/631A socket on the back so that
an old-style (by which I mean, what I currently use) analogue phone
can be plugged into an analogue/digital interface. So the new router
is exactly the same as the old router except for the phone socket.

I believe that if you have a fancy new digital landline phone you can
plug it directly into the fibre connector.

As another example of technological change, I've got two, new, unused
routers bought within days of each other (don't ask why!). They look
identical but have different specs. On one, the back panel of 4,
yellow RJ45 sockets are all described as LAN ports for connection to
computers etc. The other one - again a bank of yellow RJ45s (that's
RJ45 in plural, not a special "s" version of the RJ45) have sockets
numbered 2-4 marked as LAN ports but No.1 is now supposed to be the
input from a cable/fibre modem.

Confused? I certainly am! But it might explain why identical or
near-identical equipment is being swapped.

Nick
Mike McMillan
2021-09-21 16:20:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Penny
On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 00:23:08 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
,snip>
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
(A friend was sent a new "router" by TalkTalk; it looked identical to
the one it replaced other than the one out of five sockets on the back
that was a different colour [red, yellow] was in a different place.)
<snip>
There might be a good reason for this.
I'm currently following a thread called "Landline conversion to
digital" in uk.d-i-y where they are talking about the replacement of
analogue, POTS, copper telephone wires by fibre connections. The
conversion of the whole country is supposed to have taken place by
2025 and it is already beginning to happen in some places.
In many of those locations it appears that broadband routers are being
replaced. The new router has a BT431A/631A socket on the back so that
an old-style (by which I mean, what I currently use) analogue phone
can be plugged into an analogue/digital interface. So the new router
is exactly the same as the old router except for the phone socket.
I believe that if you have a fancy new digital landline phone you can
plug it directly into the fibre connector.
As another example of technological change, I've got two, new, unused
routers bought within days of each other (don't ask why!). They look
identical but have different specs. On one, the back panel of 4,
yellow RJ45 sockets are all described as LAN ports for connection to
computers etc. The other one - again a bank of yellow RJ45s (that's
RJ45 in plural, not a special "s" version of the RJ45) have sockets
numbered 2-4 marked as LAN ports but No.1 is now supposed to be the
input from a cable/fibre modem.
Confused? I certainly am! But it might explain why identical or
near-identical equipment is being swapped.
Nick
Our Virginontherediculous modem (new, about a year ago and known as a
SuperHub 3 [SH3] ) has a tefeloan port on the back adjacent to 4 RJ45
sockets; I have not plugged any devices into it as we still have Annie Log
tefeloans.
--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan
Penny
2021-09-21 16:37:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 15:06:03 +0100, Nick Odell
Post by Nick Odell
I'm currently following a thread called "Landline conversion to
digital" in uk.d-i-y where they are talking about the replacement of
analogue, POTS, copper telephone wires by fibre connections. The
conversion of the whole country is supposed to have taken place by
2025 and it is already beginning to happen in some places.
Ah, that must be what the engineer fixing our flooded pole was on about the
other week. I didn't believe him when he said we'd all have fibre TTP
connections soon.

A friend in Lincolnshire has been documenting the new arrangements locally
as they develop.
Photos here
<https://www.geograph.org.uk/search.php?i=140738882&page=1&displayclass=slide>
but this one missed that cut <https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/6824822>
and shows the sorry state some things have got into.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Mike McMillan
2021-09-21 07:32:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Penny
Post by Penny
Bulb installed a smart meter here in October 2019.
It worked well for the first 6 months
[...]
Post by Penny
In April 2020 the display stopped working and I reported it on a form on
the website. I can see from the two April statements this fixed the
automatic reading for gas but they still weren't getting electricity
readings [...] Several reboots of the communication hub later - no
change.
I finally got around to writing to the complaints department*. The support
people have been lovely but haven't got the problem sorted.
* That was a year ago
About two weeks ago I got an email from Bulb telling me they needed to
replace my smart meter and could I get in touch urgently to make an appointment - so I did.
A Siemens engineer showed up today, looked at the meter, looked a bit
baffled as it all appeared to be working. He checked they really wanted
him to replace the meter - yes. He replaced the meter, possibly the
communication hub as well, and it all seems to be working again.
Hurrah!
Just in time for them to sell out to A.N.Other supplier! ;-)))
--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2021-09-21 10:59:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 at 07:32:59, Mike McMillan
[]
Post by Mike McMillan
Post by Penny
About two weeks ago I got an email from Bulb telling me they needed to
replace my smart meter and could I get in touch urgently to make an
appointment - so I did.
A Siemens engineer showed up today, looked at the meter, looked a bit
baffled as it all appeared to be working. He checked they really wanted
him to replace the meter - yes. He replaced the meter, possibly the
communication hub as well, and it all seems to be working again.
Hurrah!
Just in time for them to sell out to A.N.Other supplier! ;-)))
At which point, if it's a first-generation smart meter, it will revert
to being dumb, unless the new supplier happens to be in the same
technical group as the old (details I don't know).

[I don't suppose the Siemens engineer told you whether the replacement
meter's a first- or second-generation - or whatever the correct term is
- one, did he?]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Anybody can garble quotations like that -- even with the Bible... Er... "And he
went and hanged himself (Matthew 27:5). Go, and do thou likewise (Luke 10:37)."
Penny
2021-09-21 15:56:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 11:59:53 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 at 07:32:59, Mike McMillan
[]
Post by Mike McMillan
Post by Penny
About two weeks ago I got an email from Bulb telling me they needed to
replace my smart meter and could I get in touch urgently to make an
appointment - so I did.
A Siemens engineer showed up today, looked at the meter, looked a bit
baffled as it all appeared to be working. He checked they really wanted
him to replace the meter - yes. He replaced the meter, possibly the
communication hub as well, and it all seems to be working again.
Hurrah!
Just in time for them to sell out to A.N.Other supplier! ;-)))
I'm been thinking of switching but wanted this smart meter to be working
properly when I did. Think I'll stay put for now though, until it's easier
to see through the fog..
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
At which point, if it's a first-generation smart meter, it will revert
to being dumb, unless the new supplier happens to be in the same
technical group as the old (details I don't know).
[I don't suppose the Siemens engineer told you whether the replacement
meter's a first- or second-generation - or whatever the correct term is
- one, did he?]
He replaced it one which looks identical to the one he took out. That was a
2nd generation, I believe, it was only fitted two years ago.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Mike Ruddock
2021-09-21 09:24:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Penny
Post by Penny
Bulb installed a smart meter here in October 2019.
It worked well for the first 6 months
[...]
Post by Penny
In April 2020 the display stopped working and I reported it on a form on
the website. I can see from the two April statements this fixed the
automatic reading for gas but they still weren't getting electricity
readings [...] Several reboots of the communication hub later - no
change.
I finally got around to writing to the complaints department*. The support
people have been lovely but haven't got the problem sorted.
* That was a year ago
About two weeks ago I got an email from Bulb telling me they needed to replace my smart meter and could I get in touch urgently to make an appointment - so I did.
A Siemens engineer showed up today, looked at the meter, looked a bit baffled as it all appeared to be working. He checked they really wanted him to replace the meter - yes. He replaced the meter, possibly the communication hub as well, and it all seems to be working again.
Hurrah!
Huh! I am with Gritish Bas and several months ago my smart meter
semi-failed in that it gave me the electricity reading, but not the gas.
I complained and was told to go and read the real gas meter. This I went
to do only to find that that wasn't showing any readings. I told BG this
and they said they would look into it.
A week or so ago I again complained, once again I was told it was being
dealt with. I am now getting gas bills which have no basis in fact.
Mike Ruddock
Vicky Ayech
2021-09-21 10:54:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 10:24:08 +0100, Mike Ruddock
Post by Mike Ruddock
Post by Penny
Post by Penny
Bulb installed a smart meter here in October 2019.
It worked well for the first 6 months
[...]
Post by Penny
In April 2020 the display stopped working and I reported it on a form on
the website. I can see from the two April statements this fixed the
automatic reading for gas but they still weren't getting electricity
readings [...] Several reboots of the communication hub later - no
change.
I finally got around to writing to the complaints department*. The support
people have been lovely but haven't got the problem sorted.
* That was a year ago
About two weeks ago I got an email from Bulb telling me they needed to replace my smart meter and could I get in touch urgently to make an appointment - so I did.
A Siemens engineer showed up today, looked at the meter, looked a bit baffled as it all appeared to be working. He checked they really wanted him to replace the meter - yes. He replaced the meter, possibly the communication hub as well, and it all seems to be working again.
Hurrah!
Huh! I am with Gritish Bas and several months ago my smart meter
semi-failed in that it gave me the electricity reading, but not the gas.
I complained and was told to go and read the real gas meter. This I went
to do only to find that that wasn't showing any readings. I told BG this
and they said they would look into it.
A week or so ago I again complained, once again I was told it was being
dealt with. I am now getting gas bills which have no basis in fact.
Mike Ruddock
I get emails from Bulb every so often inviting me to get a smart meter
but when I go through the application it says I can't have one as my
gas meter has a sloping lid. I'mnot sure I want one anyway. They still
insist on going by their wrong estimate from 2 years ago which gives
us as using 2k a year gas, so we send readings monthly. Although I get
quarterly reading as registered as vulnerable.
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2021-09-21 11:09:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 at 11:54:37, Vicky Ayech <***@gmail.com>
wrote (my responses usually follow points raised):
[]
Post by Vicky Ayech
I get emails from Bulb every so often inviting me to get a smart meter
but when I go through the application it says I can't have one as my
gas meter has a sloping lid. I'mnot sure I want one anyway. They still
insist on going by their wrong estimate from 2 years ago which gives
us as using 2k a year gas, so we send readings monthly. Although I get
quarterly reading as registered as vulnerable.
I've seen you mention this several times, and didn't give much thought
to it, but now have: and I can't see why _anyone_ can't have a "smart"
meter, unless their meter is so far in the basement (or for some other
reason) that it can't access the mobile network.

Does "sloping lid" mean the cupboard, rather than the meter itself? If
so, presumably that might mean they think that particular design of
cupboard isn't sufficiently weatherproof; if that _is_ the reason, then
surely it can be fixed.

Anyone know any more about this "sloping-lid meters can't be smartened"
claim? (What does the "application" actually _say_ when you get to the
point at which it says "no, sorry"?)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Anybody can garble quotations like that -- even with the Bible... Er... "And he
went and hanged himself (Matthew 27:5). Go, and do thou likewise (Luke 10:37)."
Jenny M Benson
2021-09-21 11:15:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I've seen you mention this several times, and didn't give much thought
to it, but now have: and I can't see why _anyone_ can't have a "smart"
meter, unless their meter is so far in the basement (or for some other
reason) that it can't access the mobile network.
As is usually the case, that nice Mr Google has the answer:

https://help.bulb.co.uk/hc/en-us/articles/360026097312-Gas-meter-boxes-with-sloped-lids
--
Jenny M Benson
Wrexham, UK
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2021-09-21 12:36:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jenny M Benson
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I've seen you mention this several times, and didn't give much
thought to it, but now have: and I can't see why _anyone_ can't have
a "smart" meter, unless their meter is so far in the basement (or for
some other reason) that it can't access the mobile network.
https://help.bulb.co.uk/hc/en-us/articles/360026097312-Gas-meter-boxes-w
ith-sloped-lids
Ah, I see - so it's the fact that the meter is below ground that's the
problem, not the sloping-lid box. Presumably in "Engineers need
specialist equipment to replace semi-concealed meters. This equipment is
in short supply, meaning it’s not available in all regions just yet.",
the "specialist equipment" is an aerial that comes above ground level,
or something like that, so it can get a cellular signal.

I note it says "Semi-concealed gas meters are usually found outside, and
the sloped lid is usually brown. When you open the lid, the meter inside
may be partially below ground level." The "may" suggests that it might
_not_ be below ground; I guess it'd be worth Vicky looking to see if it
is, and if not, telling Bulb so - though it'd need to be done as a
'phone call, rather than with the app (which presumably only accepts a
yes/no answer), and even then you'd have to argue the case, as you'd be
speaking to someone following a flowchart.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Never be led astray onto the path of virtue.
Penny
2021-09-21 16:03:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 13:36:33 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Jenny M Benson
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I've seen you mention this several times, and didn't give much
thought to it, but now have: and I can't see why _anyone_ can't have
a "smart" meter, unless their meter is so far in the basement (or for
some other reason) that it can't access the mobile network.
https://help.bulb.co.uk/hc/en-us/articles/360026097312-Gas-meter-boxes-w
ith-sloped-lids
Ah, I see - so it's the fact that the meter is below ground that's the
problem, not the sloping-lid box. Presumably in "Engineers need
specialist equipment to replace semi-concealed meters. This equipment is
in short supply, meaning it’s not available in all regions just yet.",
the "specialist equipment" is an aerial that comes above ground level,
or something like that, so it can get a cellular signal.
I note it says "Semi-concealed gas meters are usually found outside, and
the sloped lid is usually brown. When you open the lid, the meter inside
may be partially below ground level." The "may" suggests that it might
_not_ be below ground; I guess it'd be worth Vicky looking to see if it
is, and if not, telling Bulb so - though it'd need to be done as a
'phone call, rather than with the app (which presumably only accepts a
yes/no answer), and even then you'd have to argue the case, as you'd be
speaking to someone following a flowchart.
'Below ground' presumably means in or just outside a basement. I think I've
seen white/cream fibreglass meter boxes with sloping lids - but maybe I
imagined it.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Mike McMillan
2021-09-21 16:27:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Penny
On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 13:36:33 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Jenny M Benson
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I've seen you mention this several times, and didn't give much
thought to it, but now have: and I can't see why _anyone_ can't have
a "smart" meter, unless their meter is so far in the basement (or for
some other reason) that it can't access the mobile network.
https://help.bulb.co.uk/hc/en-us/articles/360026097312-Gas-meter-boxes-w
ith-sloped-lids
Ah, I see - so it's the fact that the meter is below ground that's the
problem, not the sloping-lid box. Presumably in "Engineers need
specialist equipment to replace semi-concealed meters. This equipment is
in short supply, meaning it’s not available in all regions just yet.",
the "specialist equipment" is an aerial that comes above ground level,
or something like that, so it can get a cellular signal.
I note it says "Semi-concealed gas meters are usually found outside, and
the sloped lid is usually brown. When you open the lid, the meter inside
may be partially below ground level." The "may" suggests that it might
_not_ be below ground; I guess it'd be worth Vicky looking to see if it
is, and if not, telling Bulb so - though it'd need to be done as a
'phone call, rather than with the app (which presumably only accepts a
yes/no answer), and even then you'd have to argue the case, as you'd be
speaking to someone following a flowchart.
'Below ground' presumably means in or just outside a basement. I think I've
seen white/cream fibreglass meter boxes with sloping lids - but maybe I
imagined it.
Gritish Bas fitted our meter to an external wall some years ago when the
underground pipe developed a leak somewhere in the road; a ‘mole’ was sent
down to run in a new small bore plastic pipe and this was re-routed so it
could connect to the new meter on the external wall. This meter sat inside
a fibreglass box with a lid that has a slow pup to the back on the wall.
That metre was exchanged for a SMETS type 1 a few years ago whilst we were
paying our bill to N-Power.
--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2021-09-21 20:06:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Penny
On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 13:36:33 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
[]
Post by Penny
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I note it says "Semi-concealed gas meters are usually found outside, and
the sloped lid is usually brown. When you open the lid, the meter inside
may be partially below ground level." The "may" suggests that it might
_not_ be below ground; I guess it'd be worth Vicky looking to see if it
is, and if not, telling Bulb so - though it'd need to be done as a
'phone call, rather than with the app (which presumably only accepts a
yes/no answer), and even then you'd have to argue the case, as you'd be
speaking to someone following a flowchart.
'Below ground' presumably means in or just outside a basement. I think I've
seen white/cream fibreglass meter boxes with sloping lids - but maybe I
imagined it.
Not necessarily; mine's in a hole in the ground, but I have no basement
- in fact I have nothing below about a foot above ground level but the
jacks and other structures that support my home above the concrete slab
(the hole is just outside the perimeter thereof).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Security is the perfect excuse to lock you out of your own computer.
- Mayayana in alt.windows7.general, 2015-12-4
Vicky Ayech
2021-09-21 16:24:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 13:36:33 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Jenny M Benson
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I've seen you mention this several times, and didn't give much
thought to it, but now have: and I can't see why _anyone_ can't have
a "smart" meter, unless their meter is so far in the basement (or for
some other reason) that it can't access the mobile network.
https://help.bulb.co.uk/hc/en-us/articles/360026097312-Gas-meter-boxes-w
ith-sloped-lids
Ah, I see - so it's the fact that the meter is below ground that's the
problem, not the sloping-lid box. Presumably in "Engineers need
specialist equipment to replace semi-concealed meters. This equipment is
in short supply, meaning it’s not available in all regions just yet.",
the "specialist equipment" is an aerial that comes above ground level,
or something like that, so it can get a cellular signal.
I note it says "Semi-concealed gas meters are usually found outside, and
the sloped lid is usually brown. When you open the lid, the meter inside
may be partially below ground level." The "may" suggests that it might
_not_ be below ground; I guess it'd be worth Vicky looking to see if it
No rush :)
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
is, and if not, telling Bulb so - though it'd need to be done as a
'phone call, rather than with the app (which presumably only accepts a
yes/no answer), and even then you'd have to argue the case, as you'd be
speaking to someone following a flowchart.
steve hague
2021-09-21 16:02:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by Vicky Ayech
I get emails from Bulb every so often inviting me to get a smart meter
but when I go through the application it says I can't have one as my
gas meter has a sloping lid. I'mnot sure I want one anyway. They still
insist on going by their wrong estimate from 2 years ago which gives
us as using 2k a year gas, so we send readings monthly. Although I get
quarterly reading as registered as vulnerable.
I've seen you mention this several times, and didn't give much thought
to it, but now have: and I can't see why _anyone_ can't have a "smart"
meter, unless their meter is so far in the basement (or for some other
reason) that it can't access the mobile network.
Does "sloping lid" mean the cupboard, rather than the meter itself? If
so, presumably that might mean they think that particular design of
cupboard isn't sufficiently weatherproof; if that _is_ the reason, then
surely it can be fixed.
Anyone know any more about this "sloping-lid meters can't be smartened"
claim? (What does the "application" actually _say_ when you get to the
point at which it says "no, sorry"?)
Can't help with that one, but earlier this year I had an email from OVO
extolling the virtues of a smart meter and explaining how and why my gas
bills would go down if I had one. I thought it sounded reasonable, so
said yes please, come and fit one. I had a prompt reply telling me they
couldn't provide this service in my area.
Steve
Mike McMillan
2021-09-21 16:22:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by steve hague
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by Vicky Ayech
I get emails from Bulb every so often inviting me to get a smart meter
but when I go through the application it says I can't have one as my
gas meter has a sloping lid. I'mnot sure I want one anyway. They still
insist on going by their wrong estimate from 2 years ago which gives
us as using 2k a year gas, so we send readings monthly. Although I get
quarterly reading as registered as vulnerable.
I've seen you mention this several times, and didn't give much thought
to it, but now have: and I can't see why _anyone_ can't have a "smart"
meter, unless their meter is so far in the basement (or for some other
reason) that it can't access the mobile network.
Does "sloping lid" mean the cupboard, rather than the meter itself? If
so, presumably that might mean they think that particular design of
cupboard isn't sufficiently weatherproof; if that _is_ the reason, then
surely it can be fixed.
Anyone know any more about this "sloping-lid meters can't be smartened"
claim? (What does the "application" actually _say_ when you get to the
point at which it says "no, sorry"?)
Can't help with that one, but earlier this year I had an email from OVO
extolling the virtues of a smart meter and explaining how and why my gas
bills would go down if I had one. I thought it sounded reasonable, so
said yes please, come and fit one. I had a prompt reply telling me they
couldn't provide this service in my area.
Steve
Well, there’s Cornwall …. And there is England.;-)))
--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan
John Armstrong
2021-09-22 08:06:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 17:02:31 +0100, steve hague
Post by steve hague
Can't help with that one, but earlier this year I had an email from OVO
extolling the virtues of a smart meter and explaining how and why my gas
bills would go down if I had one. I thought it sounded reasonable, so
said yes please, come and fit one. I had a prompt reply telling me they
couldn't provide this service in my area.
Steve
I think you had a lucky escape. What was OVO's explanation for a
smart meter bringing about a reduction in bills?

Cheaper bills can only be achieved by any or all of:

Lower price per unit
Lower (or no) Standing Charge
Reduced consumption

All a smart meter will do is indicate how much is being used at a
given time. They are a snare and delusion - some might even say a con
- for the unwary.

If you want a hot bath, or even a cup of tea, water must be heated.
When that happens, consumption increases.
Jenny M Benson
2021-09-22 09:36:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by John Armstrong
All a smart meter will do is indicate how much is being used at a
given time. They are a snare and delusion - some might even say a con
- for the unwary.
Numerous times have I screamed similar at the TV when some adverts comes
on telling me that a smart meter is going to save me money. A little
while ago I had occasion to write to E-on, querying my (larger than
expected) bill and mentioned that I wasn't idiot enough to have believed
that the installation of a smart meter was going to reduce my bill.


A few days ago I got what looked like an advertising e-mail from E-on
which I eventually sussed out was actually a replacement for the usual,
straightforward, "your bill is ready, click here to view it." It
included the information that my bill was estimated and therefore may be
higher than I was expecting. I thought one of the points of smart
meters was that they did away with estimated bills.

The e=mail also suggested I might like to submit a meter reading. As no
one from E-on has instructed me how to get a reading from the
post=smart-meter meter (which just shows a blank screen and a panel of
number keys), I can't do that.
--
Jenny M Benson
Wrexham, UK
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2021-09-22 11:36:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jenny M Benson
Post by John Armstrong
All a smart meter will do is indicate how much is being used at a
given time. They are a snare and delusion - some might even say a con
- for the unwary.
Numerous times have I screamed similar at the TV when some adverts
comes on telling me that a smart meter is going to save me money. A
YANA.

There's also the sinister but not acknowledged point that, I believe,
they can remotely cut you off (whereas with the old-fashioned type
they'd physically have to come to your premises). Sure, they'll claim
they can't do so without a court order - but _technically_ the principle
is there.

(If you don't believe me, ask what would be involved in switching to a
pre-paid tariff. If the answer is that no change to the meter would be
required, then the ability exists - assuming "pre-paid" means "cut off
if you haven't paid".)
Post by Jenny M Benson
little while ago I had occasion to write to E-on, querying my (larger
than expected) bill and mentioned that I wasn't idiot enough to have
believed that the installation of a smart meter was going to reduce my
bill.
Indeed.
Post by Jenny M Benson
A few days ago I got what looked like an advertising e-mail from E-on
which I eventually sussed out was actually a replacement for the usual,
straightforward, "your bill is ready, click here to view it." It
included the information that my bill was estimated and therefore may
be higher than I was expecting. I thought one of the points of smart
meters was that they did away with estimated bills.
I think you're the second UMRAt this week to say you're getting
estimated bills despite having a smart meter. My thought then was, make
your own estimate (based on sensible assumptions of course), and if it's
significantly less than theirs, just pay the lower. (Of course if you
pay by here's-my-wallet-help-yourself, you can't do that.)
Post by Jenny M Benson
The e=mail also suggested I might like to submit a meter reading. As
no one from E-on has instructed me how to get a reading from the
post=smart-meter meter (which just shows a blank screen and a panel of
number keys), I can't do that.
Hmm. The person who fitted it should have told you. You press some of
the keys, and it shows a reading, for a short while (minutes or seconds,
I can't remember). The reason it's like that is that it's
battery-powered, and they hope the battery lasts ten years - for which
even driving an LCD continuously would reduce that possibility,
especially as you _aren't_ looking at it most of the time. I'm talking
about the gas meter; the electricity one should have a reading visible
all the time, as that obviously _does_ have access to electricity. (The
gas one sends a reading to the electric one from time to time - I think
can be as little as once a half-hour; see how often the gas part of your
room-indicator updates.)

Can you get a meter reading from the room-indicator gadget? I rather
suspect not in terms of a string-of-digits reading - though in most
cases by fiddling with them you can get an indication of what you've
used this week/month. (Though probably in pounds rather than kWh.) In
current circumstances, probably worth making a note of this each
week/month, just before the end thereof.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual
rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities. - Ayn Rand, quoted by Deb
Shinder 2012-3-30
Chris B
2021-09-22 11:46:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Jenny M Benson
Post by John Armstrong
All a smart meter will do is indicate how much is being used at a
given time.  They are a snare and delusion - some might even say a con
- for the unwary.
Numerous times have I screamed similar at the TV when some adverts
comes on telling me that a smart meter is going to save me money.  A
YANA.
There's also the sinister but not acknowledged point that, I believe,
they can remotely cut you off (whereas with the old-fashioned type
they'd physically have to come to your premises). Sure, they'll claim
they can't do so without a court order - but _technically_ the principle
is there.
I don't think the driver is that they can cut you off, but that they can
introduce variable rates according to time of day (think airline fares
or train fares). If you want to cook a main meal at 3am that is cheap,
but have the temerity to want to do so at 6pm that will be very
expensive. Its a way of flattening out the load on the generation system.
--
Chris B (News)
krw
2021-09-22 13:23:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
variable rates according to time of day (think airline fares or train
fares).
SWR have just done this by changing the times on which what were
previously called Super Off Peak fares apply. Essentially they have
increased their income by about 30% every time we go to that there
London. Allegedly simplification - but I know a price rise when I see one.
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
Nick Odell
2021-09-22 22:33:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by krw
variable rates according to time of day (think airline fares or train
fares).
SWR have just done this by changing the times on which what were
previously called Super Off Peak fares apply. Essentially they have
increased their income by about 30% every time we go to that there
London. Allegedly simplification - but I know a price rise when I see one.
Granny and eggs, I know, but I'll just check anyway: do you have
Railcards? I do and I save over 30% whatever fare I'm paying.

Nick
krw
2021-09-23 09:01:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Nick Odell
Post by krw
variable rates according to time of day (think airline fares or train
fares).
SWR have just done this by changing the times on which what were
previously called Super Off Peak fares apply. Essentially they have
increased their income by about 30% every time we go to that there
London. Allegedly simplification - but I know a price rise when I see one.
Granny and eggs, I know, but I'll just check anyway: do you have
Railcards? I do and I save over 30% whatever fare I'm paying.
Nick
I do. I am now very unhappy with the third one. I bought it in early
March last year for 3 years and have had 18 months of not saving anything.

The obliteration of Super Off Peak still means I am paying more than I
was before. I suspect First were forced into it by the government on
signing their new "moddun" contract as the DfT gets the fares now, not
the operator.
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
Tony Smith
2021-09-23 14:24:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Nick Odell
Post by krw
variable rates according to time of day (think airline fares or train
fares).
SWR have just done this by changing the times on which what were
previously called Super Off Peak fares apply. Essentially they have
increased their income by about 30% every time we go to that there
London. Allegedly simplification - but I know a price rise when I see one.
Granny and eggs, I know, but I'll just check anyway: do you have
Railcards? I do and I save over 30% whatever fare I'm paying.
Nick
I do. I am now very unhappy with the third one. I bought it in early
March last year for 3 years and have had 18 months of not saving anything.
I bought a one-year card just before lock down. I took a day trip to London Marylebone from Oxford Parkway, a route recommended by a friend, to go to an exhibition at the BM. Previously I had driven to the far side of Oxford and continued by bus.

I never used that pass again before it expired. And although there is another interesting-sounding exhibition on in the BM I am not yet travelling that far on public transport; the return had been very crowded the one time I went.
Chris J Dixon
2021-09-23 14:55:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony Smith
I bought a one-year card just before lock down. I took a day trip to London Marylebone from Oxford Parkway, a route recommended by a friend, to go to an exhibition at the BM. Previously I had driven to the far side of Oxford and continued by bus.
I never used that pass again before it expired. And although there is another interesting-sounding exhibition on in the BM I am not yet travelling that far on public transport; the return had been very crowded the one time I went.
We used our double pass on the last day of its validity in
January 2020 to visit the NPG for the Pre-Raphaelite Sisters
exhibition, which we very much enjoyed.

As we tend to book exhibitions and travel well in advance, to get
best prices, we have time to get the appropriate discount card
before travel, and thus maximise its future validity.

I don't think we will be heading that way again any time soon.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham
'48/33 M B+ G++ A L(-) I S-- CH0(--)(p) Ar- T+ H0 ?Q
***@cdixon.me.uk @ChrisJDixon1
Plant amazing Acers.
Penny
2021-09-22 12:29:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 12:36:29 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Can you get a meter reading from the room-indicator gadget? I rather
suspect not in terms of a string-of-digits reading - though in most
cases by fiddling with them you can get an indication of what you've
used this week/month. (Though probably in pounds rather than kWh.) In
current circumstances, probably worth making a note of this each
week/month, just before the end thereof.
My IHD will show me meter readings.
Press the menu - 6 lozenges in bottom right corner
Press Meter Info and they (both - hurrah!) pop up
Right arrow > ID numbers (I suppose)
Right arrow > supply status

You can switch the display between kWh and £ by touching the number.

Slightly concerned to find the device does not know my Customer Id
Number...
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Mike McMillan
2021-09-22 12:50:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Jenny M Benson
Post by John Armstrong
All a smart meter will do is indicate how much is being used at a
given time. They are a snare and delusion - some might even say a con
- for the unwary.
Numerous times have I screamed similar at the TV when some adverts
comes on telling me that a smart meter is going to save me money. A
YANA.
There's also the sinister but not acknowledged point that, I believe,
they can remotely cut you off (whereas with the old-fashioned type
they'd physically have to come to your premises). Sure, they'll claim
they can't do so without a court order - but _technically_ the principle
is there.
(If you don't believe me, ask what would be involved in switching to a
pre-paid tariff. If the answer is that no change to the meter would be
required, then the ability exists - assuming "pre-paid" means "cut off
if you haven't paid".)
Post by Jenny M Benson
little while ago I had occasion to write to E-on, querying my (larger
than expected) bill and mentioned that I wasn't idiot enough to have
believed that the installation of a smart meter was going to reduce my
bill.
Indeed.
Post by Jenny M Benson
A few days ago I got what looked like an advertising e-mail from E-on
which I eventually sussed out was actually a replacement for the usual,
straightforward, "your bill is ready, click here to view it." It
included the information that my bill was estimated and therefore may
be higher than I was expecting. I thought one of the points of smart
meters was that they did away with estimated bills.
I think you're the second UMRAt this week to say you're getting
estimated bills despite having a smart meter. My thought then was, make
your own estimate (based on sensible assumptions of course), and if it's
significantly less than theirs, just pay the lower. (Of course if you
pay by here's-my-wallet-help-yourself, you can't do that.)
Post by Jenny M Benson
The e=mail also suggested I might like to submit a meter reading. As
no one from E-on has instructed me how to get a reading from the
post=smart-meter meter (which just shows a blank screen and a panel of
number keys), I can't do that.
Hmm. The person who fitted it should have told you. You press some of
the keys, and it shows a reading, for a short while (minutes or seconds,
I can't remember). The reason it's like that is that it's
battery-powered, and they hope the battery lasts ten years - for which
even driving an LCD continuously would reduce that possibility,
especially as you _aren't_ looking at it most of the time. I'm talking
about the gas meter; the electricity one should have a reading visible
all the time, as that obviously _does_ have access to electricity. (The
gas one sends a reading to the electric one from time to time - I think
can be as little as once a half-hour; see how often the gas part of your
room-indicator updates.)
Can you get a meter reading from the room-indicator gadget? I rather
suspect not in terms of a string-of-digits reading - though in most
cases by fiddling with them you can get an indication of what you've
used this week/month. (Though probably in pounds rather than kWh.) In
current circumstances, probably worth making a note of this each
week/month, just before the end thereof.
I blame you lot!!!! Our room-indicator has failed earlier today and despite
unplugging and plugging the power lead back in, it no longer glows at all!
--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2021-09-22 13:44:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 at 12:50:21, Mike McMillan
<***@virginmedia.com> wrote (my responses usually follow points
raised):
[]
Post by Mike McMillan
I blame you lot!!!! Our room-indicator has failed earlier today and despite
unplugging and plugging the power lead back in, it no longer glows at all!
Is it turned on at the plug? Have you a multimeter to see if the PSU
brick is putting out any volts?

If it is, can you see anything on the display at all, if you look at it
at funny angles? If so, I'd guess the backlight has gone. (If it's quite
an old model, it could be a lamp tube, and they don't last for ever.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Q. How much is 2 + 2?
A. Thank you so much for asking your question.
Are you still having this problem? I'll be delighted to help you. Please
restate the problem twice and include your Windows version along with
all error logs.
- Mayayana in alt.windows7.general, 2018-11-1
Mike McMillan
2021-09-22 14:24:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 at 12:50:21, Mike McMillan
[]
Post by Mike McMillan
I blame you lot!!!! Our room-indicator has failed earlier today and despite
unplugging and plugging the power lead back in, it no longer glows at all!
Is it turned on at the plug? Have you a multimeter to see if the PSU
brick is putting out any volts?
If it is, can you see anything on the display at all, if you look at it
at funny angles? If so, I'd guess the backlight has gone. (If it's quite
an old model, it could be a lamp tube, and they don't last for ever.)
Unplug PSU, wait 5 seconds, plug in, up-comes massage: ‘Connecting to
Smartmeter…’, this displayed for a few seconds along with the company’s
logo and a gas icon and the power on red light… then the whole screen goes
blank again. :-((( dead… curls its’ toes up… it is an ex-display… gone to
meet its’ maker.
--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan
Vicky Ayech
2021-09-22 16:27:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 12:36:29 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
There's also the sinister but not acknowledged point that, I believe,
they can remotely cut you off (whereas with the old-fashioned type
they'd physically have to come to your premises). Sure, they'll claim
they can't do so without a court order - but _technically_ the principle
is there.
(If you don't believe me, ask what would be involved in switching to a
pre-paid tariff. If the answer is that no change to the meter would be
required, then the ability exists - assuming "pre-paid" means "cut off
if you haven't paid".)
That's one reason we don't want one.
Chris B
2021-09-22 11:42:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
The e=mail also suggested I might like to submit a meter reading.  As no
one from E-on has instructed me how to get a reading from the
post=smart-meter meter (which just shows a blank screen and a panel of
number keys), I can't do that.
If you actually want to take a manual reading from a smart meter this
might be helpful

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/energy/energy-supply/your-energy-meter/how-to-read-your-smart-electricity-meter/
--
Chris B (News)
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2021-09-22 12:16:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Chris B
The e=mail also suggested I might like to submit a meter reading. 
As no one from E-on has instructed me how to get a reading from the
post=smart-meter meter (which just shows a blank screen and a panel of
number keys), I can't do that.
If you actually want to take a manual reading from a smart meter this
might be helpful
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/energy/energy-supply/your-ene
rgy-meter/how-to-read-your-smart-electricity-meter/
Thanks for that! Who knew there were so many types of meter!

The above is for electricity ones -
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/energy/energy-supply/your-energy-meter/how-to-read-your-smart-gas-meter/
shows the gas ones, though both documents link to the other. If you have
a gas one with a keypad, it seems you press 9 (and wait for the word
VOLUME to change to something ending M3 [presumably cubic metres]).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Veni, Vidi, Video (I came, I saw, I'll watch it again later) - Mik from S+AS
Limited (***@saslimited.demon.co.uk), 1998
Sid Nuncius
2021-09-21 18:10:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Vicky Ayech
I get emails from Bulb every so often inviting me to get a smart meter
Indeed. I had another one only this morning. I've been cheerfully
deleting them for some time now and will continue to do so.
--
Sid
(Make sure Matron is away when you reply)
Sjouke Burry
2021-03-30 00:16:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Vicky Ayech
My power company is Bulb, and they've asked me twice to have a smart
meter. I went through the application online and the last questions is
Some outdoor gas meters are stored in boxes with sloped lids, instead
of upright doors. These boxes are usually brown. It's really important
you tell us if you have a meter like this so the engineer can bring
the right equipment to replace it. And I clicked Yes, my gas meter is
in a box with a sloped lid.
The response then was We can't install a smart meter just yet
We'll update you when we can replace your meter
Our engineers can't replace your type of meter at the moment. We'll
send you an update when this changes. Sorry to keep you waiting.
Now they get the estimates wrong every time, keep suggesting I'd use
2000k 's worth of gas in a year! In an 11 year old terraced house with
double glazing. And we cook with electricity mostly. I complain a
lot and send lots of customer readings so we get sensible bills. I had
to email and complain to reduce the monthly DD as we are usually
around 150 or more in credit. Is that why no smart meter? They hope to
have my money in their a/c? Earning interest.
Has anyone else been refused the smart meter? I was not sure I wanted
one but in an attempt to change the algorithm we were sending readings
every other day for the last 2 months. We thought we'd go for the
smart meter.
I refused the smart meter.
Here they read yours every 15 minutes.
They can be abused to see if you are at home,
Any employee with criminal intentions can access and use the info
to plunder your home , while you are gone for a few days.
Big brother is watching you.
Sid Nuncius
2021-03-30 05:19:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
<snip>
Post by Sjouke Burry
Post by Vicky Ayech
Has anyone else been refused the smart meter? I was not sure I wanted
one but in an attempt to change the algorithm we were sending readings
every other day for the last 2 months.  We thought we'd go for the
smart meter.
I refused the smart meter.
Here they read yours every 15 minutes.
They can be abused to see if you are at home,
Any employee with criminal intentions can access and use the info
to plunder your home , while you are gone for a few days.
Big brother is watching you.
Congratulations on an outstanding Rubbish Limerick!
--
Sid
(Make sure Matron is away when you reply)
Joe Kerr
2021-03-30 16:49:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sjouke Burry
I refused the smart meter.
Here they read yours every 15 minutes.
They can be abused to see if you are at home,
Any employee with criminal intentions can access and use the info
to plunder your home , while you are gone for a few days.
Big brother is watching you.
The chap from British Gas got very upset when I refused one the other day.
--
Ric
Vicky Ayech
2021-03-30 17:45:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Joe Kerr
Post by Sjouke Burry
I refused the smart meter.
Here they read yours every 15 minutes.
They can be abused to see if you are at home,
Any employee with criminal intentions can access and use the info
to plunder your home , while you are gone for a few days.
Big brother is watching you.
The chap from British Gas got very upset when I refused one the other day.
I got another email from bulb today. they keep asking me to get the
smart meter they can't give me that I think I no longer want. Although
B says they don't need a smart meter tobe able to cut your power off
in circumstances like Texas a few weeks ago.
BrritSki
2021-03-30 18:06:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Joe Kerr
Post by Sjouke Burry
I refused the smart meter.
Here they read yours every 15 minutes.
They can be abused to see if you are at home,
Any employee with criminal intentions can access and use the info
to plunder your home , while you are gone for a few days.
Big brother is watching you.
The chap from British Gas got very upset when I refused one the other day.
I got another email from bulb today. they keep asking me to get the
smart meter they can't give me that I think I no longer want. Although
B says they don't need a smart meter tobe able to cut your power off
in circumstances like Texas a few weeks ago.
True that they could could a whole area off, but with a smart meter they
can cut individuals off.
BrritSki
2021-03-30 08:08:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
My power company is Bulb...
So is mine, and I have been very pleased with them throughout.

When I get the monthly message saying they're going to charge me I
immediately go and photograph all my meter readings and send them to
them. That way they are always using accurate up-to-date figures to
calculate the bill and if there are any discrepancies I have
photographic proof.

I haven't been offered a smart meter and will refuse one for as long as
possible. Apart from the concerns that Sjouke aired, I am more worried
longer term that the power company will be able to turn my power off
remotely in rolling blackouts e.g. in the recent Texan freeze.
Jim Easterbrook
2021-03-30 08:31:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by BrritSki
I haven't been offered a smart meter and will refuse one for as long as
possible. Apart from the concerns that Sjouke aired, I am more worried
longer term that the power company will be able to turn my power off
remotely in rolling blackouts e.g. in the recent Texan freeze.
More likely (and sooner) they'll just jack up the price you pay during
times of high demand and/or low supply.
--
Jim <http://www.jim-easterbrook.me.uk/>
1959/1985? M B+ G+ A L- I- S- P-- CH0(p) Ar++ T+ H0 Q--- Sh0
Sid Nuncius
2021-03-30 15:18:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by BrritSki
My power company is Bulb...
So is mine, and I have been very pleased with them throughout.
When I get the monthly message saying they're going to charge me I
immediately go and photograph all my meter readings and send them to
them. That way they are always using accurate up-to-date figures to
calculate the bill and if there are any discrepancies I have
photographic proof.
I haven't been offered a smart meter and will refuse one for as long as
possible. Apart from the concerns that Sjouke aired, I am more worried
longer term that the power company will be able to turn my power off
remotely in rolling blackouts e.g. in the recent Texan freeze.
<languid wave> to all of that. (Except that I send in my meter readings
by filling in the on-line page each month.) I'm very happy with Bulb,
who got my estimated amount for the DD correct to within £10 for the
last year.

I won't have a smart meter until it's either that or no gas and
electricity, for the reasons already mentioned.
--
Sid
(Make sure Matron is away when you reply)
krw
2021-03-30 15:32:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by BrritSki
My power company is Bulb...
So is mine, and I have been very pleased with them throughout.
When I get the monthly message saying they're going to charge me I
immediately go and photograph all my meter readings and send them to
them. That way they are always using accurate up-to-date figures to
calculate the bill and if there are any discrepancies I have
photographic proof.
I haven't been offered a smart meter and will refuse one for as long
as possible. Apart from the concerns that Sjouke aired, I am more
worried longer term that the power company will be able to turn my
power off remotely in rolling blackouts e.g. in the recent Texan freeze.
<languid wave> to all of that.  (Except that I send in my meter readings
by filling in the on-line page each month.)  I'm very happy with Bulb,
who got my estimated amount for the DD correct to within £10 for the
last year.
I won't have a smart meter until it's either that or no gas and
electricity, for the reasons already mentioned.
AIAOU in taking meter readings when prompted quarterly, entering them
online and waiting until they have produced bills before paying the
amount requested and avoiding all on account payments, reconciliations,
raised blood pressure and being sure that I have only paid for what I
have used.

Except they did something strange last year and sent me an email for a
different amount to that shown on the invoice (I had not paid
immediately but it was for silly amount that I knew was a small portion
of the total). And then sent me an email for another amount which did
not add up to the total. That was I think the electricity then they
repeated it for the gas bill (same people). Eventually they knocked off
£30 but could not explain why their system should send emails demanding
incorrect amounts. The best I could get was that I had changed tariff
mid-quarter and their system was generating emails based on that - which
strikes me as poor programming as debt collection action should be based
on the account balance not some arbitrary number invisible to the debtor
(also known as the always right customer).
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
Chris J Dixon
2021-03-30 16:26:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by krw
Except they did something strange last year and sent me an email for a
different amount to that shown on the invoice (I had not paid
immediately but it was for silly amount that I knew was a small portion
of the total). And then sent me an email for another amount which did
not add up to the total. That was I think the electricity then they
repeated it for the gas bill (same people). Eventually they knocked off
£30 but could not explain why their system should send emails demanding
incorrect amounts. The best I could get was that I had changed tariff
mid-quarter and their system was generating emails based on that - which
strikes me as poor programming as debt collection action should be based
on the account balance not some arbitrary number invisible to the debtor
(also known as the always right customer).
Back when I was with Tonik my main criticism is that they were
unable to respond sensibly to billing queries, and ended up
paying out significant sums because of their lack of answers.
They hadn't really done anything wrong, but simply could not
explain themselves.

Eventually I had a conversation with a helpful guy who was
working in the call centre to fund his MA. Basically, he
explained, if their system performs any kind of bill
recalculation, even though there is no change to the outcome, the
regulator requires them to notify the customer.

The data presented in such cases is such a dense gathering of
numbers, with previous charges deducted, new ones added, dates
seemingly randomly chosen, that it is beyond my usually adequate
numeracy skills to audit their calculations.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham
'48/33 M B+ G++ A L(-) I S-- CH0(--)(p) Ar- T+ H0 ?Q
***@cdixon.me.uk @ChrisJDixon1
Plant amazing Acers.
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2021-03-30 22:06:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 at 17:26:58, Chris J Dixon <***@cdixon.me.uk>
wrote (my responses usually follow points raised):
[]
Post by Chris J Dixon
Eventually I had a conversation with a helpful guy who was
working in the call centre to fund his MA. Basically, he
explained, if their system performs any kind of bill
recalculation, even though there is no change to the outcome, the
regulator requires them to notify the customer.
The data presented in such cases is such a dense gathering of
numbers, with previous charges deducted, new ones added, dates
seemingly randomly chosen, that it is beyond my usually adequate
numeracy skills to audit their calculations.
Chris
sse (their choice to be lower case!) when pretending to be M&S (though I
suspect on their own as well) were (probably still are) masters of that;
it frequently caused me considerable head-scratching to figure out their
bills.

Of course it isn't just power companies: BT are supreme at obscure money
communications. For example, when they changed their fixed charge (for a
line that makes hardly any calls) from say 25 to 30, their explanation
of why the first bill after the change was over 30 was a masterpiece of
complexity. It was because the change had happened part way through a
period for which 25 had been prepaid, so the bill had to include not
only the 30 going forward, but extra for the portion of the period just
past that should have been charged at the higher rate. But how they
showed that - talking about refunds for this and charges for that - had
me almost tearing my hair out.

(Talking of which: my hair doesn't seem to be thinning, though
definitely greying; I seem to be fortunate that way, though I don't
think it would bother me, just my genes don't favour it. I have a
slightly thin spot, but it gets no thinner.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

10.0 times 0.1 is hardly ever 1.0.
Jenny M Benson
2021-04-01 12:41:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by krw
AIAOU in taking meter readings when prompted quarterly, entering them
online and waiting until they have produced bills before paying the
amount requested and avoiding all on account payments, reconciliations,
raised blood pressure and being sure that I have only paid for what I
have used.
Not really, except that I now have a Smart Meter and don't get asked to
submit a reading any more. As the amounts are occasionally a little
less than for the same quarter the previous year, or very little more, I
am content to assume they are correct.
Post by krw
Except they did something strange last year and sent me an email for a
different amount to that shown on the invoice (I had not paid
immediately but it was for silly amount that I knew was a small portion
of the total).  And then sent me an email for another amount which did
not add up to the total.  That was I think the electricity then they
repeated it for the gas bill (same people).  Eventually they knocked off
£30 but could not explain why their system should send emails demanding
incorrect amounts.  The best I could get was that I had changed tariff
mid-quarter and their system was generating emails based on that - which
strikes me as poor programming as debt collection action should be based
on the account balance not some arbitrary number invisible to the debtor
(also known as the always right customer).
Are you with E-on by any chance? They did e-mail me a little while ago
to apologise for some mistake in their accounting which they were
correcting. I don't think it actually involved my account.
--
Jenny M Benson
Wrexham, UK
BrritSki
2021-03-30 16:16:11 UTC
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Post by BrritSki
My power company is Bulb...
So is mine, and I have been very pleased with them throughout.
When I get the monthly message saying they're going to charge me I
immediately go and photograph all my meter readings and send them to
them. That way they are always using accurate up-to-date figures to
calculate the bill and if there are any discrepancies I have
photographic proof.
I haven't been offered a smart meter and will refuse one for as long
as possible. Apart from the concerns that Sjouke aired, I am more
worried longer term that the power company will be able to turn my
power off remotely in rolling blackouts e.g. in the recent Texan freeze.
<languid wave> to all of that.  (Except that I send in my meter readings
by filling in the on-line page each month.)
Yes, I should have made clear that I don't send the photographs, I save
them for future reference, and fill in the online forms as Sid does...
steve hague
2021-03-30 08:35:15 UTC
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Post by Vicky Ayech
My power company is Bulb, and they've asked me twice to have a smart
meter. I went through the application online and the last questions is
Some outdoor gas meters are stored in boxes with sloped lids, instead
of upright doors. These boxes are usually brown. It's really important
you tell us if you have a meter like this so the engineer can bring
the right equipment to replace it. And I clicked Yes, my gas meter is
in a box with a sloped lid.
The response then was We can't install a smart meter just yet
We'll update you when we can replace your meter
Our engineers can't replace your type of meter at the moment. We'll
send you an update when this changes. Sorry to keep you waiting.
Now they get the estimates wrong every time, keep suggesting I'd use
2000k 's worth of gas in a year! In an 11 year old terraced house with
double glazing. And we cook with electricity mostly. I complain a
lot and send lots of customer readings so we get sensible bills. I had
to email and complain to reduce the monthly DD as we are usually
around 150 or more in credit. Is that why no smart meter? They hope to
have my money in their a/c? Earning interest.
Has anyone else been refused the smart meter? I was not sure I wanted
one but in an attempt to change the algorithm we were sending readings
every other day for the last 2 months. We thought we'd go for the
smart meter.
Ova sent me an email form to fill so so they could arrange to fit a
smart meter. On receiving my details they sent me a swift reply,
something along the lines of "Sorry, we can't fit them in your area".
Kate B
2021-03-30 20:59:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by steve hague
Post by Vicky Ayech
My power company is Bulb, and they've asked me twice to have a smart
meter. I went through the application online and the last questions is
Some outdoor gas meters are stored in boxes with sloped lids, instead
of upright doors. These boxes are usually brown. It's really important
you tell us if you have a meter like this so the engineer can bring
the right equipment to replace it.  And I clicked Yes, my gas meter is
in a box with a sloped lid.
The response then was We can't install a smart meter just yet
We'll update you when we can replace your meter
Our engineers can't replace your type of meter at the moment. We'll
send you an update when this changes. Sorry to keep you waiting.
Now they get the estimates wrong every time, keep suggesting I'd use
2000k 's worth of gas in a year! In an 11 year old terraced house with
double glazing. And we cook with electricity mostly.   I complain a
lot and send lots of customer readings so we get sensible bills. I had
to email and complain to reduce the monthly DD as we are usually
around 150 or more in credit. Is that why no smart meter? They hope to
have my money in their a/c? Earning interest.
Has anyone else been refused the smart meter? I was not sure I wanted
one but in an attempt to change the algorithm we were sending readings
every other day for the last 2 months.  We thought we'd go for the
smart meter.
Ova sent me an email form to fill so so they could arrange to fit a
smart meter. On receiving my details they sent me a swift reply,
something along the lines of "Sorry, we can't fit them in your area".
NPower, now Eon, require you to tick a box saying that you will accept a
smart meter when it is available. It will never be available for this
house unless they install some kind of aerial/signal booster and
cabling. The gas meter is at the back on the left of the house and the
electricity is at the front on the right. All the walls in between mean
that they can't talk to each other, and their position in the cellar
means that neither can get a mobile signal at all.
--
Kate B
London
Min
2021-03-30 23:35:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Kate B
Post by steve hague
Post by Vicky Ayech
My power company is Bulb, and they've asked me twice to have a smart
meter. I went through the application online and the last questions is
Some outdoor gas meters are stored in boxes with sloped lids, instead
of upright doors. These boxes are usually brown. It's really important
you tell us if you have a meter like this so the engineer can bring
the right equipment to replace it. And I clicked Yes, my gas meter is
in a box with a sloped lid.
The response then was We can't install a smart meter just yet
We'll update you when we can replace your meter
Our engineers can't replace your type of meter at the moment. We'll
send you an update when this changes. Sorry to keep you waiting.
Now they get the estimates wrong every time, keep suggesting I'd use
2000k 's worth of gas in a year! In an 11 year old terraced house with
double glazing. And we cook with electricity mostly. I complain a
lot and send lots of customer readings so we get sensible bills. I had
to email and complain to reduce the monthly DD as we are usually
around 150 or more in credit. Is that why no smart meter? They hope to
have my money in their a/c? Earning interest.
Has anyone else been refused the smart meter? I was not sure I wanted
one but in an attempt to change the algorithm we were sending readings
every other day for the last 2 months. We thought we'd go for the
smart meter.
Ova sent me an email form to fill so so they could arrange to fit a
smart meter. On receiving my details they sent me a swift reply,
something along the lines of "Sorry, we can't fit them in your area".
NPower, now Eon, require you to tick a box saying that you will accept a
smart meter when it is available. It will never be available for this
house unless they install some kind of aerial/signal booster and
cabling. The gas meter is at the back on the left of the house and the
electricity is at the front on the right. All the walls in between mean
that they can't talk to each other, and their position in the cellar
means that neither can get a mobile signal at all.
--
Kate B
London
That's useful to know - thanks, Kate! My gas is behind the garden flat
at the back and my electric is at the front at the ground floor level, so
presumably I am safe too...
--
Min (now with and very Happy with Bulb)
Serena Blanchflower
2021-03-30 16:33:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Vicky Ayech
My power company is Bulb, and they've asked me twice to have a smart
meter. I went through the application online and the last questions is
Some outdoor gas meters are stored in boxes with sloped lids, instead
of upright doors. These boxes are usually brown. It's really important
you tell us if you have a meter like this so the engineer can bring
the right equipment to replace it. And I clicked Yes, my gas meter is
in a box with a sloped lid.
I moved to bulb about six months ago (along with my smart meter, which
now seems to be talking to them OK). In mid February, I had an email
from them, saying they were going to increase my direct debit hugely (by
Post by Vicky Ayech
Your balance is lower than it should be this time of year
Your account should have built up enough credit over summer to pay for your higher usage during winter.
We’d expect your balance to be £xx of credit but at your last statement you were actually £yyy in debit. So your account is £zzz behind.
They seemed to have missed the fact that, in this hemisphere, February
is at the end of winter, not the summer! They may also have failed to
notice that, as I only joined them last autumn, I hadn't been in a
position to build up a credit balance with them then.

After a chat with their customer support, pointing out that, at this
time of year, I'd expect my account to be in debit, before repaying it
and building up a credit over the summer, they agreed to a far smaller
(and probably reasonable) increase in my DD.
--
Best wishes, Serena
Warning, keyboard not found. Press Enter to continue.
Peter
2021-09-22 14:39:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Vicky Ayech
My power company is Bulb, and they've asked me twice to have a smart
meter. I went through the application online and the last questions is
Some outdoor gas meters are stored in boxes with sloped lids, instead
of upright doors. These boxes are usually brown. It's really important
you tell us if you have a meter like this so the engineer can bring
the right equipment to replace it. And I clicked Yes, my gas meter is
in a box with a sloped lid.
The response then was We can't install a smart meter just yet
We'll update you when we can replace your meter
Our engineers can't replace your type of meter at the moment. We'll
send you an update when this changes. Sorry to keep you waiting.
Now they get the estimates wrong every time, keep suggesting I'd use
I confess, I know nothing about the matter. But why do you get
estimated bill at all? Surely the reason for outdoor meters is that
they allow the reader to read the meter even if no one is at home?
Post by Vicky Ayech
2000k 's worth of gas in a year! In an 11 year old terraced house with
double glazing. And we cook with electricity mostly. I complain a
lot and send lots of customer readings so we get sensible bills. I had
to email and complain to reduce the monthly DD as we are usually
around 150 or more in credit. Is that why no smart meter? They hope to
have my money in their a/c? Earning interest.
Has anyone else been refused the smart meter? I was not sure I wanted
one but in an attempt to change the algorithm we were sending readings
every other day for the last 2 months. We thought we'd go for the
smart meter.
--
The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here
Abraham Lincoln at Gettysburg
steve hague
2021-09-22 15:42:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Vicky Ayech
My power company is Bulb, and they've asked me twice to have a smart
meter. I went through the application online and the last questions is
Some outdoor gas meters are stored in boxes with sloped lids, instead
of upright doors. These boxes are usually brown. It's really important
you tell us if you have a meter like this so the engineer can bring
the right equipment to replace it.  And I clicked Yes, my gas meter is
in a box with a sloped lid.
The response then was We can't install a smart meter just yet
We'll update you when we can replace your meter
Our engineers can't replace your type of meter at the moment. We'll
send you an update when this changes. Sorry to keep you waiting.
Now they get the estimates wrong every time, keep suggesting I'd use
I confess, I know nothing about the matter.  But why do you get
estimated bill at all?  Surely the reason for outdoor meters is that
they allow the reader to read the meter even if no one is at home?
Which reader would that be? We've lived in this house for 16 years and
have never had our (Outdoor) gas meter read by anyone other than me.
Peter
2021-09-22 16:16:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by steve hague
Post by Vicky Ayech
My power company is Bulb, and they've asked me twice to have a smart
meter. I went through the application online and the last questions is
Some outdoor gas meters are stored in boxes with sloped lids, instead
of upright doors. These boxes are usually brown. It's really important
you tell us if you have a meter like this so the engineer can bring
the right equipment to replace it.  And I clicked Yes, my gas meter is
in a box with a sloped lid.
The response then was We can't install a smart meter just yet
We'll update you when we can replace your meter
Our engineers can't replace your type of meter at the moment. We'll
send you an update when this changes. Sorry to keep you waiting.
Now they get the estimates wrong every time, keep suggesting I'd use
I confess, I know nothing about the matter.  But why do you get
estimated bill at all?  Surely the reason for outdoor meters is that
they allow the reader to read the meter even if no one is at home?
Which reader would that be?
I don't know his name, but he is a Siemen's employee.
Post by steve hague
We've lived in this house for 16 years and
have never had our (Outdoor) gas meter read by anyone other than me.
Then why is it outdoors?
--
The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here
Abraham Lincoln at Gettysburg
Mike McMillan
2021-09-22 17:58:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter
Post by steve hague
Post by Vicky Ayech
My power company is Bulb, and they've asked me twice to have a smart
meter. I went through the application online and the last questions is
Some outdoor gas meters are stored in boxes with sloped lids, instead
of upright doors. These boxes are usually brown. It's really important
you tell us if you have a meter like this so the engineer can bring
the right equipment to replace it.  And I clicked Yes, my gas meter is
in a box with a sloped lid.
The response then was We can't install a smart meter just yet
We'll update you when we can replace your meter
Our engineers can't replace your type of meter at the moment. We'll
send you an update when this changes. Sorry to keep you waiting.
Now they get the estimates wrong every time, keep suggesting I'd use
I confess, I know nothing about the matter.  But why do you get
estimated bill at all?  Surely the reason for outdoor meters is that
they allow the reader to read the meter even if no one is at home?
Which reader would that be?
I don't know his name, but he is a Siemen's employee.
Post by steve hague
We've lived in this house for 16 years and
have never had our (Outdoor) gas meter read by anyone other than me.
Then why is it outdoors?
It’s the best way for them to meetyer innit?
--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan
krw
2021-09-22 15:56:51 UTC
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Permalink
Surely the reason for outdoor meters is that they allow the reader to
read the meter even if no one is at home?
All meter readers have been sacked because with smart meters there is no
need to read meters.
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
Peter
2021-09-22 16:17:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by krw
Surely the reason for outdoor meters is that they allow the reader to
read the meter even if no one is at home?
All meter readers have been sacked because with smart meters there is no
need to read meters.
Oh dear. D'you think so?
--
The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here
Abraham Lincoln at Gettysburg
Penny
2021-09-22 19:07:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 16:56:51 +0100, krw <***@whitnet.uk> scrawled in the
dust...
Post by krw
Surely the reason for outdoor meters is that they allow the reader to
read the meter even if no one is at home?
All meter readers have been sacked because with smart meters there is no
need to read meters.
I thought the companies were obliged to take a reading at least once a
year. Mine have both been read this year, to my knowledge. I don't always
see the person doing it, but did this year, so could direct him to the gas
meter, which is often missed as it is around the corner from the leccy one.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2021-09-23 01:23:54 UTC
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Permalink
On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 at 20:07:21, Penny <***@labyrinth.freeuk.com> wrote
(my responses usually follow points raised):
[]
Post by Penny
year. Mine have both been read this year, to my knowledge. I don't always
see the person doing it, but did this year, so could direct him to the gas
meter, which is often missed as it is around the corner from the leccy one.
Can't you stick a note in the 'leccy cupboard pointing out where the gas
one is? (With a sketch, even?)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

... basically it's another language and unless you've studied it, it's
difficult to grasp. I know people get outraged at me saying it, but it's only
my opinion. I'm not telling people who adore Shakespeare to stop adoring it
this minute. - Jane Horrocks, in Radio Times 30 July - 5 August 2011
Penny
2021-09-23 09:27:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 23 Sep 2021 02:23:54 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by Penny
year. Mine have both been read this year, to my knowledge. I don't always
see the person doing it, but did this year, so could direct him to the gas
meter, which is often missed as it is around the corner from the leccy one.
Can't you stick a note in the 'leccy cupboard pointing out where the gas
one is? (With a sketch, even?)
Brilliant suggestion!
Why didn't I think of that?
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Peter
2021-09-23 09:57:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by Penny
year. Mine have both been read this year, to my knowledge. I don't always
see the person doing it, but did this year, so could direct him to the gas
meter, which is often missed as it is around the corner from the leccy one.
Can't you stick a note in the 'leccy cupboard pointing out where the gas
one is? (With a sketch, even?
And map reference and compass bearing.
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
)
--
The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here
Abraham Lincoln at Gettysburg
krw
2021-09-23 09:02:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Penny
dust...
Post by krw
Surely the reason for outdoor meters is that they allow the reader to
read the meter even if no one is at home?
All meter readers have been sacked because with smart meters there is no
need to read meters.
I thought the companies were obliged to take a reading at least once a
year. Mine have both been read this year, to my knowledge. I don't always
see the person doing it, but did this year, so could direct him to the gas
meter, which is often missed as it is around the corner from the leccy one.
The last time I checked it was every two years. And it could have
changed since then as it was several years ago.
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
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