Discussion:
Spoiler of sorts. O/P Nocasha
(too old to reply)
Mike
2019-05-28 18:20:51 UTC
Permalink
She has lost her own business to the receivers, her credit cards have maxed
out and she is being pursued for repayment so has come back to Ambridge for
accommodation and release from her creditors. Tony, Pat, she’s bad news -
don’t say I didn’t warn you!
--
Toodle Pip
Vicky Ayech
2019-05-28 18:28:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike
She has lost her own business to the receivers, her credit cards have maxed
out and she is being pursued for repayment so has come back to Ambridge for
accommodation and release from her creditors. Tony, Pat, she’s bad news -
don’t say I didn’t warn you!
Possibly pregnant by Trev, who kicked her out for the second time, and
wants to make sure Tom thinks it is his. Please let this not be a
story line though. Not another who's the daddy?
Mike
2019-05-29 15:52:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Mike
She has lost her own business to the receivers, her credit cards have maxed
out and she is being pursued for repayment so has come back to Ambridge for
accommodation and release from her creditors. Tony, Pat, she’s bad news -
don’t say I didn’t warn you!
Possibly pregnant by Trev, who kicked her out for the second time, and
wants to make sure Tom thinks it is his. Please let this not be a
story line though. Not another who's the daddy?
Vicky, I have noticed your newsreader strips out my apostrophes, have you
set it to do this or summat?
--
Toodle Pip
Jim Easterbrook
2019-05-29 16:00:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Mike
She has lost her own business to the receivers, her credit cards have
maxed out and she is being pursued for repayment so has come back to
Ambridge for accommodation and release from her creditors. Tony, Pat,
she’s bad news - don’t say I didn’t warn you!
Possibly pregnant by Trev, who kicked her out for the second time, and
wants to make sure Tom thinks it is his. Please let this not be a
story line though. Not another who's the daddy?
Vicky, I have noticed your newsreader strips out my apostrophes, have
you set it to do this or summat?
Mike's apostrophes are Unicode, and his headers say he's using UTF-8.
Vicky's newsreader appears not to understand UTF-8 and sends ISO-8859-1,
losing the apostrophes on the way. (Although they appear as little boxes
on my machine.)

I've no idea if Vicky can configure her machine not to do this, but I'd
advise Mike to stick to ASCII in future. (-:
--
Jim <http://www.jim-easterbrook.me.uk/>
1959/1985? M B+ G+ A L- I- S- P-- CH0(p) Ar++ T+ H0 Q--- Sh0
Mike
2019-05-29 16:11:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Easterbrook
Post by Mike
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Mike
She has lost her own business to the receivers, her credit cards have
maxed out and she is being pursued for repayment so has come back to
Ambridge for accommodation and release from her creditors. Tony, Pat,
she’s bad news - don’t say I didn’t warn you!
Possibly pregnant by Trev, who kicked her out for the second time, and
wants to make sure Tom thinks it is his. Please let this not be a
story line though. Not another who's the daddy?
Vicky, I have noticed your newsreader strips out my apostrophes, have
you set it to do this or summat?
Mike's apostrophes are Unicode, and his headers say he's using UTF-8.
Vicky's newsreader appears not to understand UTF-8 and sends ISO-8859-1,
losing the apostrophes on the way. (Although they appear as little boxes
on my machine.)
I've no idea if Vicky can configure her machine not to do this, but I'd
Oh dear, ASCII is not one of the numerous options available in NewsTap I’m
afraid; ISO-8859-1 and -2 are available along with many DOS versions etc.
but ASCII seems not to be available at all at all:-(
--
Toodle Pip
Jim Easterbrook
2019-05-29 16:13:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike
Post by Jim Easterbrook
Post by Mike
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Mike
She has lost her own business to the receivers, her credit cards
have maxed out and she is being pursued for repayment so has come
back to Ambridge for accommodation and release from her creditors.
Tony, Pat,
she’s bad news - don’t say I didn’t warn you!
Possibly pregnant by Trev, who kicked her out for the second time,
and wants to make sure Tom thinks it is his. Please let this not be
a story line though. Not another who's the daddy?
Vicky, I have noticed your newsreader strips out my apostrophes, have
you set it to do this or summat?
Mike's apostrophes are Unicode, and his headers say he's using UTF-8.
Vicky's newsreader appears not to understand UTF-8 and sends
ISO-8859-1,
losing the apostrophes on the way. (Although they appear as little
boxes on my machine.)
I've no idea if Vicky can configure her machine not to do this, but I'd
Oh dear, ASCII is not one of the numerous options available in NewsTap
I’m afraid; ISO-8859-1 and -2 are available along with many DOS versions
etc. but ASCII seems not to be available at all at all:-(
You can use any of those and not have problems if you keep to the ASCII
character set. (It's a subset of most character encodings.) Just use
normal single quotes instead of whatever fancy apostrophes you used
before.
--
Jim <http://www.jim-easterbrook.me.uk/>
1959/1985? M B+ G+ A L- I- S- P-- CH0(p) Ar++ T+ H0 Q--- Sh0
Mike
2019-05-29 16:43:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Easterbrook
Post by Mike
Post by Jim Easterbrook
Post by Mike
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Mike
She has lost her own business to the receivers, her credit cards
have maxed out and she is being pursued for repayment so has come
back to Ambridge for accommodation and release from her creditors.
Tony, Pat,
she’s bad news - don’t say I didn’t warn you!
Possibly pregnant by Trev, who kicked her out for the second time,
and wants to make sure Tom thinks it is his. Please let this not be
a story line though. Not another who's the daddy?
Vicky, I have noticed your newsreader strips out my apostrophes, have
you set it to do this or summat?
Mike's apostrophes are Unicode, and his headers say he's using UTF-8.
Vicky's newsreader appears not to understand UTF-8 and sends
ISO-8859-1,
losing the apostrophes on the way. (Although they appear as little
boxes on my machine.)
I've no idea if Vicky can configure her machine not to do this, but I'd
Oh dear, ASCII is not one of the numerous options available in NewsTap
I’m afraid; ISO-8859-1 and -2 are available along with many DOS versions
etc. but ASCII seems not to be available at all at all:-(
You can use any of those and not have problems if you keep to the ASCII
character set. (It's a subset of most character encodings.) Just use
normal single quotes instead of whatever fancy apostrophes you used
before.
Ok, have swapped to ASCII 8859-1 as this is the western European variety,
mine dew ‘Brexit’ might require our own version in due course. ;-)
--
Toodle Pip
Jim Easterbrook
2019-05-29 17:35:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike
Post by Jim Easterbrook
Post by Mike
Post by Jim Easterbrook
Mike's apostrophes are Unicode, and his headers say he's using UTF-8.
Vicky's newsreader appears not to understand UTF-8 and sends ISO-8859-1,
losing the apostrophes on the way. (Although they appear as little
boxes on my machine.)
I've no idea if Vicky can configure her machine not to do this, but
Oh dear, ASCII is not one of the numerous options available in NewsTap
I’m afraid; ISO-8859-1 and -2 are available along with many DOS
versions etc. but ASCII seems not to be available at all at all:-(
You can use any of those and not have problems if you keep to the ASCII
character set. (It's a subset of most character encodings.) Just use
normal single quotes instead of whatever fancy apostrophes you used
before.
Ok, have swapped to ASCII 8859-1 as this is the western European variety,
mine dew ‘Brexit’ might require our own version in due course. ;-)
That's a backward step, if you need to use characters not in the limited
ISO-8859-1 set. The problem's with Vicky's software (or its
configuration) but can be avoided by not typing fancy characters. Like
these: ½ ¾ ạ ß ĉ ł € Ł.
--
Jim <http://www.jim-easterbrook.me.uk/>
1959/1985? M B+ G+ A L- I- S- P-- CH0(p) Ar++ T+ H0 Q--- Sh0
Mike
2019-05-29 17:43:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Easterbrook
Post by Mike
Post by Jim Easterbrook
Post by Mike
Post by Jim Easterbrook
Mike's apostrophes are Unicode, and his headers say he's using UTF-8.
Vicky's newsreader appears not to understand UTF-8 and sends ISO-8859-1,
losing the apostrophes on the way. (Although they appear as little
boxes on my machine.)
I've no idea if Vicky can configure her machine not to do this, but
Oh dear, ASCII is not one of the numerous options available in NewsTap
I’m afraid; ISO-8859-1 and -2 are available along with many DOS
versions etc. but ASCII seems not to be available at all at all:-(
You can use any of those and not have problems if you keep to the ASCII
character set. (It's a subset of most character encodings.) Just use
normal single quotes instead of whatever fancy apostrophes you used
before.
Ok, have swapped to ASCII 8859-1 as this is the western European variety,
mine dew ‘Brexit’ might require our own version in due course. ;-)
That's a backward step, if you need to use characters not in the limited
ISO-8859-1 set. The problem's with Vicky's software (or its
configuration) but can be avoided by not typing fancy characters. Like
these: ½ ¾ ạ ß ĉ ł € Ł.
I tend not to use any of these fancy characters at all! Shall I move back
to UTF - 8?
--
Toodle Pip
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2019-05-29 18:53:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike
Post by Jim Easterbrook
Post by Mike
Post by Jim Easterbrook
Post by Mike
Post by Jim Easterbrook
Mike's apostrophes are Unicode, and his headers say he's using UTF-8.
Vicky's newsreader appears not to understand UTF-8 and sends ISO-8859-1,
losing the apostrophes on the way. (Although they appear as little
boxes on my machine.)
I've no idea if Vicky can configure her machine not to do this, but
Oh dear, ASCII is not one of the numerous options available in NewsTap
I’m afraid; ISO-8859-1 and -2 are available along with many DOS
versions etc. but ASCII seems not to be available at all at all:-(
You can use any of those and not have problems if you keep to the ASCII
character set. (It's a subset of most character encodings.) Just use
normal single quotes instead of whatever fancy apostrophes you used
before.
Ok, have swapped to ASCII 8859-1 as this is the western European variety,
mine dew ‘Brexit’ might require our own version in due course. ;-)
I'm afraid your switch hasn't worked: those things you've put either
side of 'Brexit' are _not_ normal apostrophes. Basically, if they slope,
they're not ASCII.
Post by Mike
Post by Jim Easterbrook
That's a backward step, if you need to use characters not in the limited
ISO-8859-1 set. The problem's with Vicky's software (or its
configuration) but can be avoided by not typing fancy characters. Like
these: ½ ¾ ? ß ? ? € ?.
I tend not to use any of these fancy characters at all! Shall I move back
to UTF - 8?
Remember the pound character is not ASCII either.

There's also a "funny space"; there's at least one UMRAt whose system
puts what appears to be a double space after a full stop, but when I do
a post quoting it, Turnpike asks me if I'm sure I want to post non-ASCII
characters, and I ask it which, it highlights the first of the two
spaces. I suspect there's nothing the originator can do about it
(without jumping through more hoops than they're willing to).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

[What's your guilty pleasure?] Why should you feel guilty about pleasure? -
Michel Roux Jr in Radio Times 2-8 February 2013
Sid Nuncius
2019-05-30 04:40:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
There's also a "funny space"; there's at least one UMRAt whose system
puts what appears to be a double space after a full stop, but when I do
a post quoting it, Turnpike asks me if I'm sure I want to post non-ASCII
characters, and I ask it which, it highlights the first of the two
spaces. I suspect there's nothing the originator can do about it
(without jumping through more hoops than they're willing to).
Is that me? I always put a double space after a full stop, but I do it
manually (i.e. by pressing the space bar twice) because that's the way I
like to set out my typing. I'd be interested to know whether it's
causing any problems.
--
Sid (Make sure Matron is away when you reply)
Nick Leverton
2019-05-30 08:43:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
There's also a "funny space"; there's at least one UMRAt whose system
puts what appears to be a double space after a full stop, but when I do
a post quoting it, Turnpike asks me if I'm sure I want to post non-ASCII
characters, and I ask it which, it highlights the first of the two
spaces. I suspect there's nothing the originator can do about it
(without jumping through more hoops than they're willing to).
Is that me? I always put a double space after a full stop, but I do it
manually (i.e. by pressing the space bar twice) because that's the way I
like to set out my typing. I'd be interested to know whether it's
causing any problems.
No cause for concern, Sid, your spaces are pristine ...

Nick
--
"The Internet, a sort of ersatz counterfeit of real life"
-- Janet Street-Porter, BBC2, 19th March 1996
Sid Nuncius
2019-05-30 17:24:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nick Leverton
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
There's also a "funny space"; there's at least one UMRAt whose system
puts what appears to be a double space after a full stop, but when I do
a post quoting it, Turnpike asks me if I'm sure I want to post non-ASCII
characters, and I ask it which, it highlights the first of the two
spaces. I suspect there's nothing the originator can do about it
(without jumping through more hoops than they're willing to).
Is that me? I always put a double space after a full stop, but I do it
manually (i.e. by pressing the space bar twice) because that's the way I
like to set out my typing. I'd be interested to know whether it's
causing any problems.
No cause for concern, Sid, your spaces are pristine ...
Phew!
--
Sid (Make sure Matron is away when you reply)
Mike
2019-05-30 17:31:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nick Leverton
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
There's also a "funny space"; there's at least one UMRAt whose system
puts what appears to be a double space after a full stop, but when I do
a post quoting it, Turnpike asks me if I'm sure I want to post non-ASCII
characters, and I ask it which, it highlights the first of the two
spaces. I suspect there's nothing the originator can do about it
(without jumping through more hoops than they're willing to).
Is that me? I always put a double space after a full stop, but I do it
manually (i.e. by pressing the space bar twice) because that's the way I
like to set out my typing. I'd be interested to know whether it's
causing any problems.
No cause for concern, Sid, your spaces are pristine ...
Phew!
Unlike Jazzer’s.
--
Toodle Pip
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2019-05-30 12:06:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
There's also a "funny space"; there's at least one UMRAt whose system
puts what appears to be a double space after a full stop, but when I
do a post quoting it, Turnpike asks me if I'm sure I want to post
non-ASCII characters, and I ask it which, it highlights the first of
the two spaces. I suspect there's nothing the originator can do about
it (without jumping through more hoops than they're willing to).
Is that me? I always put a double space after a full stop, but I do it
manually (i.e. by pressing the space bar twice) because that's the way
I like to set out my typing. I'd be interested to know whether it's
causing any problems.
If you're doing it manually, I doubt it. Next time Turnpike tells me
about one of them, I'll see whose it is.

JPG
--


Three- (or four-) way referendum, if we _have_ to have another one.

(Where has the "treat northern Ireland differently" option gone?)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

(Incidentally, it was made in Spain so shouldn't it be a "paella western"?) -
Barry Norman [on "A Fistful of Dollars"], RT 2014/10/4-10
Fenny
2019-05-30 22:26:14 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 30 May 2019 05:40:12 +0100, Sid Nuncius
Post by Sid Nuncius
Is that me? I always put a double space after a full stop, but I do it
manually (i.e. by pressing the space bar twice) because that's the way I
like to set out my typing. I'd be interested to know whether it's
causing any problems.
Double spaces are correct. I always use them.
--
Fenny
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2019-05-30 23:13:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fenny
On Thu, 30 May 2019 05:40:12 +0100, Sid Nuncius
Post by Sid Nuncius
Is that me? I always put a double space after a full stop, but I do it
manually (i.e. by pressing the space bar twice) because that's the way I
like to set out my typing. I'd be interested to know whether it's
causing any problems.
Double spaces are correct. I always use them.
(Red rag ...) They're neither correct nor incorrect. There was a time
when their use was indeed taught, but on the whole it isn't now (and
that isn't just a decline in standards, the practice has actually
changed such that a single space after a dot is no linger incorrect.
Grammar and punctuation rules do change, much as word meanings (and
spellings, and pronunciation) do, much as we hate it. (Mind you,
"nucular" still irritates me greatly - unless nucules are the subject,
and I've never heard such a context.) To give an example: abbreviations
used to be done thus U. M. R. A., then U.M.R.A. (with the final dot
sometimes omitted), and now almost universally UMRA.

An interesting wrinkle I've noticed recently is the use of capital
letters in place of quotes - which I'm not sure is a Good Idea (see what
I did there? [And that wasn't a good example as it didn't need quotes
anyway.]), but have caught myself using it occasionally.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Anything you add for security will slow the computer but it shouldn't be
significant or prolonged. Security software is to protect the computer, not
the primary use of the computer.
- VanguardLH in alt.windows7.general, 2018-1-28
Sid Nuncius
2019-05-31 05:17:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
An interesting wrinkle I've noticed recently is the use of capital
letters in place of quotes - which I'm not sure is a Good Idea (see what
I did there? [And that wasn't a good example as it didn't need quotes
anyway.]), but have caught myself using it occasionally.
Is that far different from the use of capitals for comic effect, as in
1066 And All That and The Land Of Green Ginger, lending phrases like "a
Good Thing"[1] the undeserved status of proper noun?

[1]My quotation marks used for clarity here; they are not used in the
seminal texts cited above.
--
Sid (Make sure Matron is away when you reply)
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2019-05-31 15:50:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
An interesting wrinkle I've noticed recently is the use of capital
letters in place of quotes - which I'm not sure is a Good Idea (see
what I did there? [And that wasn't a good example as it didn't need
quotes anyway.]), but have caught myself using it occasionally.
Is that far different from the use of capitals for comic effect, as in
1066 And All That and The Land Of Green Ginger, lending phrases like "a
Good Thing"[1] the undeserved status of proper noun?
[1]My quotation marks used for clarity here; they are not used in the
seminal texts cited above.
It is slightly different. I was trying to think of an example. Here's
another attempt, though still not very good: in giving instructions for
using software, someone might say 'Click on File, then Exit' rather than
'Click on "file", then "exit"'. Or similar with a web page. This isn't a
good example, though, as software menus (and web pages) are among the
worst offenders for Unnecessary Capitals anyway, so this new usage is
very tempting. (It's not universal - I have seen software menus that
_don't_ have Everything In Capitals - but it's rare.)

Talking of web-pages, another irritant is the now almost-universal use
of "Submit" for the go key after you've filled in a form, rather than
"OK" or "send" or "enter". I always feel I'm either like a wrestler
giving up abjectly with my opponent sitting on me, or at least a nervous
schoolchild handing in homework to be assessed, when I click Submit.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Old professors don't fade away - they just lose their faculties.
Sid Nuncius
2019-05-31 17:47:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Talking of web-pages, another irritant is the now almost-universal use
of "Submit" for the go key after you've filled in a form, rather than
"OK" or "send" or "enter". I always feel I'm either like a wrestler
giving up abjectly with my opponent sitting on me, or at least a nervous
schoolchild handing in homework to be assessed, when I click Submit.
:o))
--
Sid (Make sure Matron is away when you reply)
Penny
2019-05-31 07:31:52 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 31 May 2019 00:13:37 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Fenny
On Thu, 30 May 2019 05:40:12 +0100, Sid Nuncius
Post by Sid Nuncius
Is that me? I always put a double space after a full stop, but I do it
manually (i.e. by pressing the space bar twice) because that's the way I
like to set out my typing. I'd be interested to know whether it's
causing any problems.
Double spaces are correct. I always use them.
(Red rag ...) They're neither correct nor incorrect. There was a time
when their use was indeed taught, but on the whole it isn't now (and
that isn't just a decline in standards, the practice has actually
changed such that a single space after a dot is no linger incorrect.
I was never taught to use a double space after a full stop (but I was never
taught to type).
The first word processor I used assumed a double space between sentences so
one could use short-cut key combinations to navigate around a document by
word, by sentence or by paragraph but only if the double space was used. I
suppose that made sense at the time since full stops after abbreviations
were still widely used then.
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Grammar and punctuation rules do change, much as word meanings (and
spellings, and pronunciation) do, much as we hate it. (Mind you,
"nucular" still irritates me greatly - unless nucules are the subject,
and I've never heard such a context.) To give an example: abbreviations
used to be done thus U. M. R. A., then U.M.R.A. (with the final dot
sometimes omitted), and now almost universally UMRA.
I am annoyed by use of full stop but no space after it in things like
St.Mary* or C.S.Lewis. I prefer St Mary but if you insist on the dot then
add a space too.

I also get annoyed by use of St to mean both saint and street in the same
piece of writing so I guess I'm just a grumpy old git.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Mike
2019-05-31 07:51:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Fenny
On Thu, 30 May 2019 05:40:12 +0100, Sid Nuncius
Post by Sid Nuncius
Is that me? I always put a double space after a full stop, but I do it
manually (i.e. by pressing the space bar twice) because that's the way I
like to set out my typing. I'd be interested to know whether it's
causing any problems.
Double spaces are correct. I always use them.
(Red rag ...) They're neither correct nor incorrect. There was a time
when their use was indeed taught, but on the whole it isn't now (and
that isn't just a decline in standards, the practice has actually
changed such that a single space after a dot is no linger incorrect.
Grammar and punctuation rules do change, much as word meanings (and
spellings, and pronunciation) do, much as we hate it. (Mind you,
"nucular" still irritates me greatly - unless nucules are the subject,
and I've never heard such a context.) To give an example: abbreviations
used to be done thus U. M. R. A., then U.M.R.A. (with the final dot
sometimes omitted), and now almost universally UMRA.
An interesting wrinkle I've noticed recently is the use of capital
letters in place of quotes - which I'm not sure is a Good Idea (see what
I did there? [And that wasn't a good example as it didn't need quotes
anyway.]), but have caught myself using it occasionally.
Ok., here I go, tossing a bolt tightening/loosening leverage tool into the
mechanism; I was taught in the early 60’s ‘full stop-space-capital letter’;
no double spacing was ever mentioned in typing class to me. Mine dew, when
using iPad, iPhone or iMacs, generally text apps allow you manual control
or hitting space bar twice in quick succession and this will insert a full
stop and a single space. (Such as I used just then.)
--
Toodle Pip
Nick Odell
2019-05-31 07:56:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fenny
On Thu, 30 May 2019 05:40:12 +0100, Sid Nuncius
Post by Sid Nuncius
Is that me? I always put a double space after a full stop, but I do it
manually (i.e. by pressing the space bar twice) because that's the way I
like to set out my typing. I'd be interested to know whether it's
causing any problems.
Double spaces are correct. I always use them.
AIUI the double space was created as a crafty dodge to overcome
deficiencies in manual typewriters and only attained religious
significance in later years.

But single-spacers will remain single-spacers whilst double spacers will
continue to leave two: perhaps whoever is clever enough to solve the
Brexit conundrum might afterwards turn their attention to uniting the
opposing space-communities too.

Nick
Mike
2019-05-31 08:03:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Fenny
On Thu, 30 May 2019 05:40:12 +0100, Sid Nuncius
Post by Sid Nuncius
Is that me? I always put a double space after a full stop, but I do it
manually (i.e. by pressing the space bar twice) because that's the way I
like to set out my typing. I'd be interested to know whether it's
causing any problems.
Double spaces are correct. I always use them.
AIUI the double space was created as a crafty dodge to overcome
deficiencies in manual typewriters and only attained religious
significance in later years.
But single-spacers will remain single-spacers whilst double spacers will
continue to leave two: perhaps whoever is clever enough to solve the
Brexit conundrum might afterwards turn their attention to uniting the
opposing space-communities too.
Nick
‘Where’s the back-stop key?’
--
Toodle Pip
Nick Odell
2019-05-31 08:29:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Fenny
On Thu, 30 May 2019 05:40:12 +0100, Sid Nuncius
Post by Sid Nuncius
Is that me? I always put a double space after a full stop, but I do it
manually (i.e. by pressing the space bar twice) because that's the way I
like to set out my typing. I'd be interested to know whether it's
causing any problems.
Double spaces are correct. I always use them.
AIUI the double space was created as a crafty dodge to overcome
deficiencies in manual typewriters and only attained religious
significance in later years.
But single-spacers will remain single-spacers whilst double spacers will
continue to leave two: perhaps whoever is clever enough to solve the
Brexit conundrum might afterwards turn their attention to uniting the
opposing space-communities too.
Nick
‘Where’s the back-stop key?’
I think this answer belongs in Steve Hague's Ask EU thread.

Nick
Mike
2019-05-31 08:36:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Mike
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Fenny
On Thu, 30 May 2019 05:40:12 +0100, Sid Nuncius
Post by Sid Nuncius
Is that me? I always put a double space after a full stop, but I do it
manually (i.e. by pressing the space bar twice) because that's the way I
like to set out my typing. I'd be interested to know whether it's
causing any problems.
Double spaces are correct. I always use them.
AIUI the double space was created as a crafty dodge to overcome
deficiencies in manual typewriters and only attained religious
significance in later years.
But single-spacers will remain single-spacers whilst double spacers will
continue to leave two: perhaps whoever is clever enough to solve the
Brexit conundrum might afterwards turn their attention to uniting the
opposing space-communities too.
Nick
‘Where’s the back-stop key?’
I think this answer belongs in Steve Hague's Ask EU thread.
Nick
Should there be a referendum on this?
--
Toodle Pip
Nick Odell
2019-05-31 09:22:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Mike
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Fenny
On Thu, 30 May 2019 05:40:12 +0100, Sid Nuncius
Post by Sid Nuncius
Is that me? I always put a double space after a full stop, but I do it
manually (i.e. by pressing the space bar twice) because that's the way I
like to set out my typing. I'd be interested to know whether it's
causing any problems.
Double spaces are correct. I always use them.
AIUI the double space was created as a crafty dodge to overcome
deficiencies in manual typewriters and only attained religious
significance in later years.
But single-spacers will remain single-spacers whilst double spacers will
continue to leave two: perhaps whoever is clever enough to solve the
Brexit conundrum might afterwards turn their attention to uniting the
opposing space-communities too.
Nick
‘Where’s the back-stop key?’
I think this answer belongs in Steve Hague's Ask EU thread.
Nick
Should there be a referendum on this?
The UMRA People's Forum ought to be able to thrash this one out.

Nick
BrritSki
2019-05-31 09:29:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Mike
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Mike
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Fenny
On Thu, 30 May 2019 05:40:12 +0100, Sid Nuncius
Is that me?  I always put a double space after a full stop, but I
do it
manually (i.e. by pressing the space bar twice) because that's the way I
like to set out my typing.  I'd be interested to know whether it's
causing any problems.
Double spaces are correct.  I always use them.
AIUI the double space was created as a crafty dodge to overcome
deficiencies in manual typewriters and only attained religious
significance in later years.
But single-spacers will remain single-spacers whilst double spacers will
continue to leave two: perhaps whoever is clever enough to solve the
Brexit conundrum might afterwards turn their attention to uniting the
opposing space-communities too.
Nick
‘Where’s the back-stop key?’
I think this answer belongs in Steve Hague's Ask EU thread.
Nick
Should there be a referendum on this?
The UMRA People's Forum ought to be able to thrash this one out.
I thought we were leaving it to the Forum for UMRA people ? Splitter...
steveski
2019-05-31 10:26:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by BrritSki
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Mike
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Mike
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Fenny
On Thu, 30 May 2019 05:40:12 +0100, Sid Nuncius
Is that me?  I always put a double space after a full stop, but I
do it manually (i.e. by pressing the space bar twice) because
that's the way I like to set out my typing.  I'd be interested to
know whether it's causing any problems.
Double spaces are correct.  I always use them.
AIUI the double space was created as a crafty dodge to overcome
deficiencies in manual typewriters and only attained religious
significance in later years.
But single-spacers will remain single-spacers whilst double spacers
will continue to leave two: perhaps whoever is clever enough to
solve the Brexit conundrum might afterwards turn their attention to
uniting the opposing space-communities too.
Nick
‘Where’s the back-stop key?’
I think this answer belongs in Steve Hague's Ask EU thread.
Nick
Should there be a referendum on this?
The UMRA People's Forum ought to be able to thrash this one out.
I thought we were leaving it to the Forum for UMRA people ? Splitter...
What did UMRA ever do for us?
--
Steveski
BrritSki
2019-05-31 12:21:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by steveski
Post by BrritSki
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Mike
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Mike
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Fenny
On Thu, 30 May 2019 05:40:12 +0100, Sid Nuncius
Is that me?  I always put a double space after a full stop, but I
do it manually (i.e. by pressing the space bar twice) because
that's the way I like to set out my typing.  I'd be interested to
know whether it's causing any problems.
Double spaces are correct.  I always use them.
AIUI the double space was created as a crafty dodge to overcome
deficiencies in manual typewriters and only attained religious
significance in later years.
But single-spacers will remain single-spacers whilst double spacers
will continue to leave two: perhaps whoever is clever enough to
solve the Brexit conundrum might afterwards turn their attention to
uniting the opposing space-communities too.
Nick
‘Where’s the back-stop key?’
I think this answer belongs in Steve Hague's Ask EU thread.
Nick
Should there be a referendum on this?
The UMRA People's Forum ought to be able to thrash this one out.
I thought we were leaving it to the Forum for UMRA people ? Splitter...
What did UMRA ever do for us?
SPQR

(Sid' Posts are Quite Remarkable)
Sid Nuncius
2019-05-31 17:44:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by BrritSki
Post by steveski
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Mike
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Mike
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Fenny
On Thu, 30 May 2019 05:40:12 +0100, Sid Nuncius
Is that me?  I always put a double space after a full stop, but I
do it manually (i.e. by pressing the space bar twice) because
that's the way I like to set out my typing.  I'd be interested to
know whether it's causing any problems.
Double spaces are correct.  I always use them.
AIUI the double space was created as a crafty dodge to overcome
deficiencies in manual typewriters and only attained religious
significance in later years.
But single-spacers will remain single-spacers whilst double spacers
will continue to leave two: perhaps whoever is clever enough to
solve the Brexit conundrum might afterwards turn their attention to
uniting the opposing space-communities too.
Nick
‘Where’s the back-stop key?’
I think this answer belongs in Steve Hague's Ask EU thread.
Nick
Should there be a referendum on this?
The UMRA People's Forum ought to be able to thrash this one out.
I thought we were leaving it to the Forum for UMRA people ?  Splitter...
What did UMRA ever do for us?
SPQR
(Sid' Posts are Quite Remarkable)
Umrates eunt domus.
--
Sid (Make sure Matron is away when you reply)
steveski
2019-05-31 23:44:13 UTC
Permalink
[]
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by BrritSki
Post by steveski
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Mike
Should there be a referendum on this?
The UMRA People's Forum ought to be able to thrash this one out.
I thought we were leaving it to the Forum for UMRA people ?  Splitter...
What did UMRA ever do for us?
SPQR
(Sid' Posts are Quite Remarkable)
Umrates eunt domus.
(Can't resist :-) ) People called umrats, they go the 'ouse?
--
Steveski
Sid Nuncius
2019-06-01 05:55:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by steveski
[]
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by BrritSki
Post by steveski
Post by BrritSki
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Mike
Should there be a referendum on this?
The UMRA People's Forum ought to be able to thrash this one out.
I thought we were leaving it to the Forum for UMRA people ?
Splitter...
What did UMRA ever do for us?
SPQR
(Sid' Posts are Quite Remarkable)
Umrates eunt domus.
(Can't resist :-) ) People called umrats, they go the 'ouse?
Umrati ite domum
Umrati ite domum
Umrati ite domum
Umrati ite domum...
--
Sid (Make sure Matron is away when you reply)
Chris J Dixon
2019-05-31 10:07:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Nick Odell
But single-spacers will remain single-spacers whilst double spacers will
continue to leave two: perhaps whoever is clever enough to solve the
Brexit conundrum might afterwards turn their attention to uniting the
opposing space-communities too.
‘Where’s the back-stop key?’
I think this answer belongs in Steve Hague's Ask EU thread.
I think that has also got into a bit of a hash.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham
'48/33 M B+ G++ A L(-) I S-- CH0(--)(p) Ar- T+ H0 ?Q
***@cdixon.me.uk @ChrisJDixon1
Plant amazing Acers.
Penny
2019-05-31 10:29:36 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 31 May 2019 08:56:41 +0100, Nick Odell
Post by Nick Odell
But single-spacers will remain single-spacers whilst double spacers will
continue to leave two
and both will show up as single spaces in HTML.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2019-05-31 15:42:28 UTC
Permalink
In message <qcqmnr$7jc$***@dont-email.me>, Nick Odell
<***@themusicworkshop.plus.com> writes:
[]
Post by Nick Odell
But single-spacers will remain single-spacers whilst double spacers
will continue to leave two: perhaps whoever is clever enough to solve
the Brexit conundrum might afterwards turn their attention to uniting
the opposing space-communities too.
Nick
(-:

I think I once read a suggestion that it may be related to fonts and
typesetting. In some fonts a single space may not appear big enough
after a full stop (though arguably did within an abbreviation). Though
if that's the explanation I'm surprised to hear it was combined with
typing tuition, since most typewriters use an equispaced font where
arguably it _does_ look big enough. Or not.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

User Error: Replace user, hit any key to continue.
Mike
2019-05-31 15:49:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by Nick Odell
But single-spacers will remain single-spacers whilst double spacers
will continue to leave two: perhaps whoever is clever enough to solve
the Brexit conundrum might afterwards turn their attention to uniting
the opposing space-communities too.
Nick
I think I once read a suggestion that it may be related to fonts and
typesetting. In some fonts a single space may not appear big enough
after a full stop (though arguably did within an abbreviation). Though
if that's the explanation I'm surprised to hear it was combined with
typing tuition, since most typewriters use an equispaced font where
arguably it _does_ look big enough. Or not.
That rather sounds as though it might be related to kerning in some way.
--
Toodle Pip
Penny
2019-05-31 19:11:53 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 31 May 2019 16:42:28 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by Nick Odell
But single-spacers will remain single-spacers whilst double spacers
will continue to leave two: perhaps whoever is clever enough to solve
the Brexit conundrum might afterwards turn their attention to uniting
the opposing space-communities too.
Nick
I think I once read a suggestion that it may be related to fonts and
typesetting. In some fonts a single space may not appear big enough
after a full stop (though arguably did within an abbreviation). Though
if that's the explanation I'm surprised to hear it was combined with
typing tuition, since most typewriters use an equispaced font where
arguably it _does_ look big enough. Or not.
It is certainly not something I was taught to do when type-setting.
Although when setting fully justified text (creating a straight edge down
both left and right side of a block of text) it was necessary to increase
word spacing and, depending on the measure and amount of space to fill, one
would start with the gaps between sentences as being less likely to upset
the reader's flow.

I never operated a linotype machine but suspect they add the space
automatically for justified text, leading to such horrors as
a s p a c e b e t w e e n e v e r y l e t t e r
and two between words when setting narrow columns in a newspaper.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
John Ashby
2019-06-01 19:06:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by Nick Odell
But single-spacers will remain single-spacers whilst double spacers
will continue to leave two: perhaps whoever is clever enough to solve
the Brexit conundrum might afterwards turn their attention to uniting
the opposing space-communities too.
Nick
I think I once read a suggestion that it may be related to fonts and
typesetting. In some fonts a single space may not appear big enough
after a full stop (though arguably did within an abbreviation). Though
if that's the explanation I'm surprised to hear it was combined with
typing tuition, since most typewriters use an equispaced font where
arguably it _does_ look big enough. Or not.
I tried to post this several times over the past few days from a dodgy
YHA internet connection and although Tbird thinks they have been sent
they don't seem to have appeared.


My understanding is that it was an attempt to replicate the effect in
typeset text of using an en-space between words and an em-space between
sentences (which almost subliminally sets the sentence off as an
entity). Knuth explains it better in The TeX Book, and then says that
when typing text into TeX it is no longer necessary because Tex will
automatically insert a longer space after a full stop, unless you use
\<space> as, for example, in C.\ S.\ Lewis. Most modern worm processors
will do the same, so the practice of double spacing is falling into
desuetude.

john

Sam Plusnet
2019-05-31 20:51:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Fenny
On Thu, 30 May 2019 05:40:12 +0100, Sid Nuncius
Is that me?  I always put a double space after a full stop, but I do it
manually (i.e. by pressing the space bar twice) because that's the way I
like to set out my typing.  I'd be interested to know whether it's
causing any problems.
Double spaces are correct.  I always use them.
AIUI the double space was created as a crafty dodge to overcome
deficiencies in manual typewriters and only attained religious
significance in later years.
But single-spacers will remain single-spacers whilst double spacers will
continue to leave two: perhaps whoever is clever enough to solve the
Brexit conundrum might afterwards turn their attention to uniting the
opposing space-communities too.
I trust you are sound on which end of a boiled egg one should tackle?
--
Sam Plusnet
Nick Odell
2019-06-01 07:26:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Fenny
On Thu, 30 May 2019 05:40:12 +0100, Sid Nuncius
Is that me?  I always put a double space after a full stop, but I do it
manually (i.e. by pressing the space bar twice) because that's the way I
like to set out my typing.  I'd be interested to know whether it's
causing any problems.
Double spaces are correct.  I always use them.
AIUI the double space was created as a crafty dodge to overcome
deficiencies in manual typewriters and only attained religious
significance in later years.
But single-spacers will remain single-spacers whilst double spacers
will continue to leave two: perhaps whoever is clever enough to solve
the Brexit conundrum might afterwards turn their attention to uniting
the opposing space-communities too.
I trust you are sound on which end of a boiled egg one should tackle?
The right end, of course.

Nick
Mike
2019-06-01 10:24:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Fenny
On Thu, 30 May 2019 05:40:12 +0100, Sid Nuncius
Is that me?  I always put a double space after a full stop, but I do it
manually (i.e. by pressing the space bar twice) because that's the way I
like to set out my typing.  I'd be interested to know whether it's
causing any problems.
Double spaces are correct.  I always use them.
AIUI the double space was created as a crafty dodge to overcome
deficiencies in manual typewriters and only attained religious
significance in later years.
But single-spacers will remain single-spacers whilst double spacers
will continue to leave two: perhaps whoever is clever enough to solve
the Brexit conundrum might afterwards turn their attention to uniting
the opposing space-communities too.
I trust you are sound on which end of a boiled egg one should tackle?
The right end, of course.
Nick
The Brogdignag (sp?) end of course!
--
Toodle Pip
Mike
2019-06-01 11:18:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Fenny
On Thu, 30 May 2019 05:40:12 +0100, Sid Nuncius
Is that me?  I always put a double space after a full stop, but I do it
manually (i.e. by pressing the space bar twice) because that's the way I
like to set out my typing.  I'd be interested to know whether it's
causing any problems.
Double spaces are correct.  I always use them.
AIUI the double space was created as a crafty dodge to overcome
deficiencies in manual typewriters and only attained religious
significance in later years.
But single-spacers will remain single-spacers whilst double spacers
will continue to leave two: perhaps whoever is clever enough to solve
the Brexit conundrum might afterwards turn their attention to uniting
the opposing space-communities too.
I trust you are sound on which end of a boiled egg one should tackle?
The right end, of course.
Nick
The Brogdignag (sp?) end of course!
(I couldn’t remember ‘Endian’ at the time of posting.)
--
Toodle Pip
BrritSki
2019-05-29 17:15:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Mike
She has lost her own business to the receivers, her credit cards have maxed
out and she is being pursued for repayment so has come back to Ambridge for
accommodation and release from her creditors. Tony, Pat, she’s bad news -
don’t say I didn’t warn you!
Possibly pregnant by Trev, who kicked her out for the second time, and
wants to make sure Tom thinks it is his. Please let this not be a
story line though. Not another who's the daddy?
Vicky, I have noticed your newsreader strips out my apostrophes, have you
set it to do this or summat?
Interestingly [1], if I look at your text in Vicky's reply it's
identical to your original, app o'strophes and all, but they're gone in
your reply to her. Strange...

[1] FSVO interesting
Mike
2019-05-29 17:27:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by BrritSki
Post by Mike
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Mike
She has lost her own business to the receivers, her credit cards have maxed
out and she is being pursued for repayment so has come back to Ambridge for
accommodation and release from her creditors. Tony, Pat, she’s bad news -
don’t say I didn’t warn you!
Possibly pregnant by Trev, who kicked her out for the second time, and
wants to make sure Tom thinks it is his. Please let this not be a
story line though. Not another who's the daddy?
Vicky, I have noticed your newsreader strips out my apostrophes, have you
set it to do this or summat?
Interestingly [1], if I look at your text in Vicky's reply it's
identical to your original, app o'strophes and all, but they're gone in
your reply to her. Strange...
[1] FSVO interesting
It’s a strange world innit?!
--
Toodle Pip
BrritSki
2019-05-29 19:35:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike
Post by BrritSki
Post by Mike
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Mike
She has lost her own business to the receivers, her credit cards have maxed
out and she is being pursued for repayment so has come back to Ambridge for
accommodation and release from her creditors. Tony, Pat, she’s bad news -
don’t say I didn’t warn you!
Possibly pregnant by Trev, who kicked her out for the second time, and
wants to make sure Tom thinks it is his. Please let this not be a
story line though. Not another who's the daddy?
Vicky, I have noticed your newsreader strips out my apostrophes, have you
set it to do this or summat?
Interestingly [1], if I look at your text in Vicky's reply it's
identical to your original, app o'strophes and all, but they're gone in
your reply to her. Strange...
[1] FSVO interesting
It’s a strange world innit?!
Communicating in Morse code would be quite an Endeavour, if you're
Bright enough and not a Lewiser. Maybe a task for Thursday ?
vk
2019-05-29 20:00:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by BrritSki
Post by Mike
Post by BrritSki
Post by Mike
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Mike
She has lost her own business to the receivers, her credit cards have maxed
out and she is being pursued for repayment so has come back to Ambridge for
accommodation and release from her creditors. Tony, Pat, she’s bad news -
don’t say I didn’t warn you!
Possibly pregnant by Trev, who kicked her out for the second time, and
wants to make sure Tom thinks it is his.  Please let this not be a
story line though. Not another who's the daddy?
Vicky, I have noticed your newsreader strips out my apostrophes, have you
set it to do this or summat?
Interestingly [1], if I look at your text in Vicky's reply it's
identical to your original, app o'strophes and all, but they're gone in
your reply to her. Strange...
[1] FSVO interesting
It’s a strange world innit?!
Communicating in Morse code would be quite an Endeavour, if you're
Bright enough and not a Lewiser. Maybe a task for Thursday ?
Fancy that!
Sid Nuncius
2019-05-30 04:42:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by vk
Post by BrritSki
Communicating in Morse code would be quite an Endeavour, if you're
Bright enough and not a Lewiser. Maybe a task for Thursday ?
Fancy that!
It requires considerable Dexterity.
--
Sid (Make sure Matron is away when you reply)
Mike
2019-05-30 07:15:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by vk
Post by BrritSki
Communicating in Morse code would be quite an Endeavour, if you're
Bright enough and not a Lewiser. Maybe a task for Thursday ?
Fancy that!
It requires considerable Dexterity.
I super intend to involve myself in this thread as I detect it requires
some policing but, it would be a crime to ignore it; however, I’m feeling a
little law at present.
--
Toodle Pip
Nick Odell
2019-05-30 10:43:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by vk
Post by BrritSki
Communicating in Morse code would be quite an Endeavour, if you're
Bright enough and not a Lewiser. Maybe a task for Thursday ?
Fancy that!
It requires considerable Dexterity.
Which reminds me: Dexter Fletcher, who, next to the delectable Julia
Sawalha, played my favourite Press Gang character, seems to be directing
rather successful movies[1] these days.


Nick
[1]I used the word "movies" so I didn't have to say "biopics"(umra
passim) but I suspect that's just as bad
Penny
2019-05-30 11:40:46 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 30 May 2019 11:43:31 +0100, Nick Odell
Post by Nick Odell
Which reminds me: Dexter Fletcher, who, next to the delectable Julia
Sawalha, played my favourite Press Gang character, seems to be directing
rather successful movies[1] these days.
I liked him in Press Gang too - it was a shock to realise he wasn't
actually American. Then he turned up as a concierge in Umbrella and I also
realised how short he is.
Post by Nick Odell
Nick
[1]I used the word "movies" so I didn't have to say "biopics"(umra
passim) but I suspect that's just as bad
Well, as an abbreviation for 'moving pictures' it's the root of the use of
'pic' for fillums (rather than stills).
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
vk
2019-05-30 11:35:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by vk
Post by BrritSki
Communicating in Morse code would be quite an Endeavour, if you're
Bright enough and not a Lewiser. Maybe a task for Thursday ?
Fancy that!
It requires considerable Dexterity.
And Trewlove.
Vicky Ayech
2019-05-29 18:28:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Mike
She has lost her own business to the receivers, her credit cards have maxed
out and she is being pursued for repayment so has come back to Ambridge for
accommodation and release from her creditors. Tony, Pat, she?s bad news -
don?t say I didn?t warn you!
Possibly pregnant by Trev, who kicked her out for the second time, and
wants to make sure Tom thinks it is his. Please let this not be a
story line though. Not another who's the daddy?
Vicky, I have noticed your newsreader strips out my apostrophes, have you
set it to do this or summat?
I don't think so. I use Berlin and Agent
Serena Blanchflower
2019-05-29 19:19:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Mike
Vicky, I have noticed your newsreader strips out my apostrophes, have you
set it to do this or summat?
I don't think so. I use Berlin and Agent
Agent seems to be very sensitive about standards. Whenever there are
problems with characters going missing, and suchlike, more often than
not, Agent seems to be involved. I get the impression that,
technically, Agent is generally in the right but it's unable to cope
with transgressions from the standards which most other clients take in
their stride.
--
Best wishes, Serena
I changed my iPod's name to Titanic. It's syncing now.
Jim Easterbrook
2019-05-29 21:02:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Serena Blanchflower
Agent seems to be very sensitive about standards. Whenever there are
problems with characters going missing, and suchlike, more often than
not, Agent seems to be involved. I get the impression that,
technically, Agent is generally in the right but it's unable to cope
with transgressions from the standards which most other clients take in
their stride.
When I write software I try to keep Postel's law in mind.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robustness_principle

There will inevitably be problems if a program is configured to send in a
narrow character set, such as ISO-8859-1, but you quote a post written
with a wider set, such as UTF-8, that contains characters outside the
narrower set. These days everything should use UTF-8 by default, but too
often doesn't.
--
Jim <http://www.jim-easterbrook.me.uk/>
1959/1985? M B+ G+ A L- I- S- P-- CH0(p) Ar++ T+ H0 Q--- Sh0
Penny
2019-05-30 09:53:21 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 29 May 2019 20:19:58 +0100, Serena Blanchflower
Post by Serena Blanchflower
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Mike
Vicky, I have noticed your newsreader strips out my apostrophes, have you
set it to do this or summat?
I don't think so. I use Berlin and Agent
Agent seems to be very sensitive about standards. Whenever there are
problems with characters going missing, and suchlike, more often than
not, Agent seems to be involved. I get the impression that,
technically, Agent is generally in the right but it's unable to cope
with transgressions from the standards which most other clients take in
their stride.
My ancient Agent has no problem with Mike's apostrophes and displayed
‘Brexit’ (from an adjacent post in this thread)
curly quotes and all.
If Vicky replies to this will her new Agent strip them or replace with a
question mark?
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Jim Easterbrook
2019-05-30 10:04:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Penny
On Wed, 29 May 2019 20:19:58 +0100, Serena Blanchflower
Post by Serena Blanchflower
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Mike
Vicky, I have noticed your newsreader strips out my apostrophes, have
you set it to do this or summat?
I don't think so. I use Berlin and Agent
Agent seems to be very sensitive about standards. Whenever there are
problems with characters going missing, and suchlike, more often than
not, Agent seems to be involved. I get the impression that,
technically, Agent is generally in the right but it's unable to cope
with transgressions from the standards which most other clients take in
their stride.
My ancient Agent has no problem with Mike's apostrophes and displayed
‘Brexit’ (from an adjacent post in this thread)
curly quotes and all.
If Vicky replies to this will her new Agent strip them or replace with a
question mark?
But your message was sent with ISO-8859-1 encoding so the curly quotes
got mangled by the time I received it. This message will be sent UTF-8,
so I suspect the curly quotes will look OK again.
--
Jim <http://www.jim-easterbrook.me.uk/>
1959/1985? M B+ G+ A L- I- S- P-- CH0(p) Ar++ T+ H0 Q--- Sh0
krw
2019-05-30 10:33:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Easterbrook
Post by Penny
On Wed, 29 May 2019 20:19:58 +0100, Serena Blanchflower
Post by Serena Blanchflower
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Mike
Vicky, I have noticed your newsreader strips out my apostrophes, have
you set it to do this or summat?
I don't think so. I use Berlin and Agent
Agent seems to be very sensitive about standards. Whenever there are
problems with characters going missing, and suchlike, more often than
not, Agent seems to be involved. I get the impression that,
technically, Agent is generally in the right but it's unable to cope
with transgressions from the standards which most other clients take in
their stride.
My ancient Agent has no problem with Mike's apostrophes and displayed
‘Brexit’ (from an adjacent post in this thread)
curly quotes and all.
If Vicky replies to this will her new Agent strip them or replace with a
question mark?
But your message was sent with ISO-8859-1 encoding so the curly quotes
got mangled by the time I received it. This message will be sent UTF-8,
so I suspect the curly quotes will look OK again.
No curly quotes here.
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2019-05-30 12:09:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by krw
Post by Jim Easterbrook
Post by Penny
On Wed, 29 May 2019 20:19:58 +0100, Serena Blanchflower
Post by Serena Blanchflower
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Mike
Vicky, I have noticed your newsreader strips out my apostrophes, have
you set it to do this or summat?
I don't think so. I use Berlin and Agent
Agent seems to be very sensitive about standards. Whenever there are
problems with characters going missing, and suchlike, more often than
not, Agent seems to be involved. I get the impression that,
technically, Agent is generally in the right but it's unable to cope
with transgressions from the standards which most other clients take in
their stride.
My ancient Agent has no problem with Mike's apostrophes and displayed
‘Brexit’ (from an adjacent post in this thread)
curly quotes and all.
If Vicky replies to this will her new Agent strip them or replace with a
question mark?
But your message was sent with ISO-8859-1 encoding so the curly quotes
got mangled by the time I received it. This message will be sent UTF-8,
so I suspect the curly quotes will look OK again.
No curly quotes here.
What are you seeing around "Brexit" above - two identical characters
'Brexit', or two different characters (sloping different ways)? If
you're seeing two different ones, you're seeing what some people call
curly quotes, even if they aren't actually curly in the font you're
discussing.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

(Incidentally, it was made in Spain so shouldn't it be a "paella western"?) -
Barry Norman [on "A Fistful of Dollars"], RT 2014/10/4-10
Penny
2019-05-30 13:28:35 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 30 May 2019 13:09:33 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by krw
Post by Jim Easterbrook
Post by Penny
My ancient Agent has no problem with Mike's apostrophes and displayed
‘Brexit’ (from an adjacent post in this thread)
curly quotes and all.
If Vicky replies to this will her new Agent strip them or replace with a
question mark?
But your message was sent with ISO-8859-1 encoding so the curly quotes
got mangled by the time I received it. This message will be sent UTF-8,
so I suspect the curly quotes will look OK again.
No curly quotes here.
What are you seeing around "Brexit" above - two identical characters
'Brexit', or two different characters (sloping different ways)? If
you're seeing two different ones, you're seeing what some people call
curly quotes, even if they aren't actually curly in the font you're
discussing.
I see two different single curly quotes of a 69 style (on your reply to krw
- on krw's post I saw them replaced with ?).
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Mike
2019-05-30 10:50:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Easterbrook
Post by Penny
On Wed, 29 May 2019 20:19:58 +0100, Serena Blanchflower
Post by Serena Blanchflower
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Mike
Vicky, I have noticed your newsreader strips out my apostrophes, have
you set it to do this or summat?
I don't think so. I use Berlin and Agent
Agent seems to be very sensitive about standards. Whenever there are
problems with characters going missing, and suchlike, more often than
not, Agent seems to be involved. I get the impression that,
technically, Agent is generally in the right but it's unable to cope
with transgressions from the standards which most other clients take in
their stride.
My ancient Agent has no problem with Mike's apostrophes and displayed
‘Brexit’ (from an adjacent post in this thread)
curly quotes and all.
If Vicky replies to this will her new Agent strip them or replace with a
question mark?
But your message was sent with ISO-8859-1 encoding so the curly quotes
got mangled by the time I received it. This message will be sent UTF-8,
so I suspect the curly quotes will look OK again.
I have reverted to UTF-8 again, ‘Is all well in UMRA?’
--
Toodle Pip
Serena Blanchflower
2019-05-30 11:25:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike
Post by Jim Easterbrook
Post by Penny
On Wed, 29 May 2019 20:19:58 +0100, Serena Blanchflower
Post by Serena Blanchflower
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Mike
Vicky, I have noticed your newsreader strips out my apostrophes, have
you set it to do this or summat?
I don't think so. I use Berlin and Agent
Agent seems to be very sensitive about standards. Whenever there are
problems with characters going missing, and suchlike, more often than
not, Agent seems to be involved. I get the impression that,
technically, Agent is generally in the right but it's unable to cope
with transgressions from the standards which most other clients take in
their stride.
My ancient Agent has no problem with Mike's apostrophes and displayed
‘Brexit’ (from an adjacent post in this thread)
curly quotes and all.
If Vicky replies to this will her new Agent strip them or replace with a
question mark?
But your message was sent with ISO-8859-1 encoding so the curly quotes
got mangled by the time I received it. This message will be sent UTF-8,
so I suspect the curly quotes will look OK again.
I have reverted to UTF-8 again, ‘Is all well in UMRA?’
It is here, but Thunderbird is pretty forgiving about such things.
--
Best wishes, Serena
A lie has gone around the world twice before truth has put its pants on
(Mark Twain)
Penny
2019-05-30 11:46:56 UTC
Permalink
On 30 May 2019 10:04:19 GMT, Jim Easterbrook <***@jim-easterbrook.me.uk>
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Jim Easterbrook
Post by Penny
On Wed, 29 May 2019 20:19:58 +0100, Serena Blanchflower
Post by Serena Blanchflower
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Mike
Vicky, I have noticed your newsreader strips out my apostrophes, have
you set it to do this or summat?
I don't think so. I use Berlin and Agent
Agent seems to be very sensitive about standards. Whenever there are
problems with characters going missing, and suchlike, more often than
not, Agent seems to be involved. I get the impression that,
technically, Agent is generally in the right but it's unable to cope
with transgressions from the standards which most other clients take in
their stride.
My ancient Agent has no problem with Mike's apostrophes and displayed
?Brexit? (from an adjacent post in this thread)
curly quotes and all.
If Vicky replies to this will her new Agent strip them or replace with a
question mark?
But your message was sent with ISO-8859-1 encoding so the curly quotes
got mangled by the time I received it. This message will be sent UTF-8,
so I suspect the curly quotes will look OK again.
Hm, I've changed every option I can see to UTF-8
Does ‘Brexit’ work now?
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Jim Easterbrook
2019-05-30 11:53:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Jim Easterbrook
But your message was sent with ISO-8859-1 encoding so the curly quotes
got mangled by the time I received it. This message will be sent UTF-8,
so I suspect the curly quotes will look OK again.
Hm, I've changed every option I can see to UTF-8 Does ‘Brexit’ work now?
Looks fine here. (That's a comment on the character encoding, not the
concept in curly quotes.)
--
Jim <http://www.jim-easterbrook.me.uk/>
1959/1985? M B+ G+ A L- I- S- P-- CH0(p) Ar++ T+ H0 Q--- Sh0
Penny
2019-05-30 12:18:36 UTC
Permalink
On 30 May 2019 11:53:16 GMT, Jim Easterbrook <***@jim-easterbrook.me.uk>
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Jim Easterbrook
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Jim Easterbrook
But your message was sent with ISO-8859-1 encoding so the curly quotes
got mangled by the time I received it. This message will be sent UTF-8,
so I suspect the curly quotes will look OK again.
Hm, I've changed every option I can see to UTF-8 Does ‘Brexit’ work now?
Looks fine here. (That's a comment on the character encoding, not the
concept in curly quotes.)
Nor on whether Brexit works...
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Vicky Ayech
2019-05-30 14:16:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Penny
On Wed, 29 May 2019 20:19:58 +0100, Serena Blanchflower
My ancient Agent has no problem with Mike's apostrophes and displayed
‘Brexit’ (from an adjacent post in this thread)
curly quotes and all.
If Vicky replies to this will her new Agent strip them or replace with a
question mark?
Let's see.
krw
2019-05-30 14:28:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Penny
On Wed, 29 May 2019 20:19:58 +0100, Serena Blanchflower
My ancient Agent has no problem with Mike's apostrophes and displayed
‘Brexit’ (from an adjacent post in this thread)
curly quotes and all.
If Vicky replies to this will her new Agent strip them or replace with a
question mark?
Let's see.
Still with curly quotes here.
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
Penny
2019-05-30 18:48:37 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 30 May 2019 15:16:03 +0100, Vicky Ayech <***@gmail.com>
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Penny
My ancient Agent has no problem with Mike's apostrophes and displayed
‘Brexit’ (from an adjacent post in this thread)
curly quotes and all.
If Vicky replies to this will her new Agent strip them or replace with a
question mark?
Let's see.
Looks good to me.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
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