Discussion:
OT: Smart Meters - Bah!
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Jenny M Benson
2019-09-12 09:39:12 UTC
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I think I might have ranted hereabouts previously about the claim that
having a Smart Meter will reduce one's fuel bills.

Yesterday I got my first fuel ill from E-on since having a SM installed.
It is ENORMOUS. It is the biggest bill I have had for ages, never
mind the fact that this is the quarter when I use least fuel.

I tried to read the proper meters to see if they agreed with what E-on
says the SM told them, but all I see is a blank screen with a tiny
keypad under it and no indication of how to see actual usage.

First time I have ever had any sort of a problem with E-on and have been
with them for yonks. VERY suspicious that this occurs just when the
Smart Meter comes into play.
--
Jenny M Benson
Vicky Ayech
2019-09-12 10:18:03 UTC
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Permalink
On Thu, 12 Sep 2019 10:39:12 +0100, Jenny M Benson
Post by Jenny M Benson
I think I might have ranted hereabouts previously about the claim that
having a Smart Meter will reduce one's fuel bills.
Yesterday I got my first fuel ill from E-on since having a SM installed.
It is ENORMOUS. It is the biggest bill I have had for ages, never
mind the fact that this is the quarter when I use least fuel.
I tried to read the proper meters to see if they agreed with what E-on
says the SM told them, but all I see is a blank screen with a tiny
keypad under it and no indication of how to see actual usage.
First time I have ever had any sort of a problem with E-on and have been
with them for yonks. VERY suspicious that this occurs just when the
Smart Meter comes into play.
If it like with old meters if you say it is fubah they say we can take
it and check it but if it is fine you will pay a fee (evil laughter
accompanies this) and if they take it how do you know they check it
honestly and truthfully tell you the result. We did actually have an
instance years ago of a large bill. I forget how much but in 1021 it
was huge and we'd been away at sea for 6 months so protested. They did
take the meter and it was wrong and they refunded the money. Actually
they might have refunded and we'd not paid...I know we came out ahead.
Vicky Ayech
2019-09-12 11:02:19 UTC
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On Thu, 12 Sep 2019 11:18:03 +0100, Vicky Ayech
Post by Vicky Ayech
On Thu, 12 Sep 2019 10:39:12 +0100, Jenny M Benson
Post by Jenny M Benson
I think I might have ranted hereabouts previously about the claim that
having a Smart Meter will reduce one's fuel bills.
Yesterday I got my first fuel ill from E-on since having a SM installed.
It is ENORMOUS. It is the biggest bill I have had for ages, never
mind the fact that this is the quarter when I use least fuel.
I tried to read the proper meters to see if they agreed with what E-on
says the SM told them, but all I see is a blank screen with a tiny
keypad under it and no indication of how to see actual usage.
First time I have ever had any sort of a problem with E-on and have been
with them for yonks. VERY suspicious that this occurs just when the
Smart Meter comes into play.
If it like with old meters if you say it is fubah they say we can take
it and check it but if it is fine you will pay a fee (evil laughter
accompanies this) and if they take it how do you know they check it
honestly and truthfully tell you the result. We did actually have an
instance years ago of a large bill. I forget how much but in 1021 it
was huge and we'd been away at sea for 6 months so protested. They did
take the meter and it was wrong and they refunded the money. Actually
they might have refunded and we'd not paid...I know we came out ahead.
Oh dear. I can't see the nuuggering keys properly. It wasn't in 1021
it was in 1971
Mike
2019-09-12 12:46:18 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Vicky Ayech
On Thu, 12 Sep 2019 10:39:12 +0100, Jenny M Benson
Post by Jenny M Benson
I think I might have ranted hereabouts previously about the claim that
having a Smart Meter will reduce one's fuel bills.
Yesterday I got my first fuel ill from E-on since having a SM installed.
It is ENORMOUS. It is the biggest bill I have had for ages, never
mind the fact that this is the quarter when I use least fuel.
I tried to read the proper meters to see if they agreed with what E-on
says the SM told them, but all I see is a blank screen with a tiny
keypad under it and no indication of how to see actual usage.
First time I have ever had any sort of a problem with E-on and have been
with them for yonks. VERY suspicious that this occurs just when the
Smart Meter comes into play.
If it like with old meters if you say it is fubah they say we can take
it and check it but if it is fine you will pay a fee (evil laughter
accompanies this) and if they take it how do you know they check it
honestly and truthfully tell you the result. We did actually have an
instance years ago of a large bill. I forget how much but in 1021 it
was huge and we'd been away at sea for 6 months so protested. They did
take the meter and it was wrong and they refunded the money. Actually
they might have refunded and we'd not paid...I know we came out ahead.
I would suggest a meter of that age (a thousand years life for any meter is
going it a bit don’t you think?) perhaps the energy supplier would like it
for a museum piece! ;-)
--
Toodle Pip
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2019-09-12 23:30:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jenny M Benson
I think I might have ranted hereabouts previously about the claim that
having a Smart Meter will reduce one's fuel bills.
Yesterday I got my first fuel ill from E-on since having a SM
installed. It is ENORMOUS. It is the biggest bill I have had for
ages, never mind the fact that this is the quarter when I use least fuel.
They're probably trying to average you over a year. (That still doesn't
mean they can't cock it up.) AFAIK all the energy companies like to do
that. (I asked one of them, if you're going to set a fixed payment, then
can I pay by standing order not DD? But no dice.)

FWIW I'm with Octopus (pretending to be M&S), and although they prefer
to DD a fixed amount, they have agreed to DD based on what I actually
use (smart meters).
Post by Jenny M Benson
I tried to read the proper meters to see if they agreed with what E-on
says the SM told them, but all I see is a blank screen with a tiny
keypad under it and no indication of how to see actual usage.
You should have been told by the person who installed it; IIRR you type
in a pin on the keypad (there may be an extra button you have to press
before or after). If he/she didn't, demand the necessary information
from your supplier; if they don't come up with it fairly sharpish, give
them notice you're going to stop the DD, and do so.
Post by Jenny M Benson
First time I have ever had any sort of a problem with E-on and have
been with them for yonks. VERY suspicious that this occurs just when
the Smart Meter comes into play.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

All that glitters has a high refractive index.
Mike
2019-09-13 08:48:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Jenny M Benson
I think I might have ranted hereabouts previously about the claim that
having a Smart Meter will reduce one's fuel bills.
Yesterday I got my first fuel ill from E-on since having a SM
installed. It is ENORMOUS. It is the biggest bill I have had for
ages, never mind the fact that this is the quarter when I use least fuel.
They're probably trying to average you over a year. (That still doesn't
mean they can't cock it up.) AFAIK all the energy companies like to do
that. (I asked one of them, if you're going to set a fixed payment, then
can I pay by standing order not DD? But no dice.)
FWIW I'm with Octopus (pretending to be M&S), and although they prefer
to DD a fixed amount, they have agreed to DD based on what I actually
use (smart meters).
Post by Jenny M Benson
I tried to read the proper meters to see if they agreed with what E-on
says the SM told them, but all I see is a blank screen with a tiny
keypad under it and no indication of how to see actual usage.
You should have been told by the person who installed it; IIRR you type
in a pin on the keypad (there may be an extra button you have to press
before or after). If he/she didn't, demand the necessary information
from your supplier; if they don't come up with it fairly sharpish, give
them notice you're going to stop the DD, and do so.
Post by Jenny M Benson
First time I have ever had any sort of a problem with E-on and have
been with them for yonks. VERY suspicious that this occurs just when
the Smart Meter comes into play.
We are with Npower and have both gas and electricity meters that think they
are ‘smart’;we don’t have a keypad or display to read on the meters, just
flashy lighty thingies AFAIK. We have not been given any code or
instructions to do with the meters other than a display box powered from
the mains which gives us various nuggets of information about our energy
useage including ‘current’ useage, daily consumption, also last ten days,
month and annual consumption plus costs.
--
Toodle Pip
Sally Thompson
2019-09-13 09:05:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mike
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Jenny M Benson
I think I might have ranted hereabouts previously about the claim that
having a Smart Meter will reduce one's fuel bills.
Yesterday I got my first fuel ill from E-on since having a SM
installed. It is ENORMOUS. It is the biggest bill I have had for
ages, never mind the fact that this is the quarter when I use least fuel.
They're probably trying to average you over a year. (That still doesn't
mean they can't cock it up.) AFAIK all the energy companies like to do
that. (I asked one of them, if you're going to set a fixed payment, then
can I pay by standing order not DD? But no dice.)
FWIW I'm with Octopus (pretending to be M&S), and although they prefer
to DD a fixed amount, they have agreed to DD based on what I actually
use (smart meters).
Post by Jenny M Benson
I tried to read the proper meters to see if they agreed with what E-on
says the SM told them, but all I see is a blank screen with a tiny
keypad under it and no indication of how to see actual usage.
You should have been told by the person who installed it; IIRR you type
in a pin on the keypad (there may be an extra button you have to press
before or after). If he/she didn't, demand the necessary information
from your supplier; if they don't come up with it fairly sharpish, give
them notice you're going to stop the DD, and do so.
Post by Jenny M Benson
First time I have ever had any sort of a problem with E-on and have
been with them for yonks. VERY suspicious that this occurs just when
the Smart Meter comes into play.
We are with Npower and have both gas and electricity meters that think they
are ‘smart’;we don’t have a keypad or display to read on the meters, just
flashy lighty thingies AFAIK. We have not been given any code or
instructions to do with the meters other than a display box powered from
the mains which gives us various nuggets of information about our energy
useage including ‘current’ useage, daily consumption, also last ten days,
month and annual consumption plus costs.
Similarly here. We have an In Home Display (Bulb) on which I can set a
budget, and see at a glance all the things you mention. I don't need to
read the actual meter at all. It's a second generation smart meter,
installed without a hitch by Siemens. I don't need any sort of pin; it's
just a little touch screen with the added advantage that I can, if I wish,
walk it round the house and see how the current usage varies as I turn
appliances on and off.
--
Sally in Shropshire, UK
Mike
2019-09-13 09:43:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sally Thompson
Post by Mike
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Jenny M Benson
I think I might have ranted hereabouts previously about the claim that
having a Smart Meter will reduce one's fuel bills.
Yesterday I got my first fuel ill from E-on since having a SM
installed. It is ENORMOUS. It is the biggest bill I have had for
ages, never mind the fact that this is the quarter when I use least fuel.
They're probably trying to average you over a year. (That still doesn't
mean they can't cock it up.) AFAIK all the energy companies like to do
that. (I asked one of them, if you're going to set a fixed payment, then
can I pay by standing order not DD? But no dice.)
FWIW I'm with Octopus (pretending to be M&S), and although they prefer
to DD a fixed amount, they have agreed to DD based on what I actually
use (smart meters).
Post by Jenny M Benson
I tried to read the proper meters to see if they agreed with what E-on
says the SM told them, but all I see is a blank screen with a tiny
keypad under it and no indication of how to see actual usage.
You should have been told by the person who installed it; IIRR you type
in a pin on the keypad (there may be an extra button you have to press
before or after). If he/she didn't, demand the necessary information
from your supplier; if they don't come up with it fairly sharpish, give
them notice you're going to stop the DD, and do so.
Post by Jenny M Benson
First time I have ever had any sort of a problem with E-on and have
been with them for yonks. VERY suspicious that this occurs just when
the Smart Meter comes into play.
We are with Npower and have both gas and electricity meters that think they
are ‘smart’;we don’t have a keypad or display to read on the meters, just
flashy lighty thingies AFAIK. We have not been given any code or
instructions to do with the meters other than a display box powered from
the mains which gives us various nuggets of information about our energy
useage including ‘current’ useage, daily consumption, also last ten days,
month and annual consumption plus costs.
Similarly here. We have an In Home Display (Bulb) on which I can set a
budget, and see at a glance all the things you mention. I don't need to
read the actual meter at all. It's a second generation smart meter,
installed without a hitch by Siemens. I don't need any sort of pin; it's
just a little touch screen with the added advantage that I can, if I wish,
walk it round the house and see how the current usage varies as I turn
appliances on and off.
Happened to open the under-stairs cupboard and noticed a green glowing
display on the electricity meter just now; non the wiser as it seems to be
initials and codes, the green glow had gone off by the time I got down
level with the meter so used a torch to see the LCD. There are numerous
flashy lighty thingies for WAN and two other sets of initials so I think
they may be for telemetry porpoises. The only thing I could glean from the
characters on the main display was ‘Total consumption’ and a figure in K
Watts.
--
Toodle Pip
Penny
2019-09-13 10:02:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On 13 Sep 2019 09:05:24 GMT, Sally Thompson
Post by Sally Thompson
Post by Mike
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Jenny M Benson
I think I might have ranted hereabouts previously about the claim that
having a Smart Meter will reduce one's fuel bills.
Yesterday I got my first fuel ill from E-on since having a SM
installed. It is ENORMOUS. It is the biggest bill I have had for
ages, never mind the fact that this is the quarter when I use least fuel.
They're probably trying to average you over a year. (That still doesn't
mean they can't cock it up.) AFAIK all the energy companies like to do
that. (I asked one of them, if you're going to set a fixed payment, then
can I pay by standing order not DD? But no dice.)
FWIW I'm with Octopus (pretending to be M&S), and although they prefer
to DD a fixed amount, they have agreed to DD based on what I actually
use (smart meters).
Post by Jenny M Benson
I tried to read the proper meters to see if they agreed with what E-on
says the SM told them, but all I see is a blank screen with a tiny
keypad under it and no indication of how to see actual usage.
You should have been told by the person who installed it; IIRR you type
in a pin on the keypad (there may be an extra button you have to press
before or after). If he/she didn't, demand the necessary information
from your supplier; if they don't come up with it fairly sharpish, give
them notice you're going to stop the DD, and do so.
Post by Jenny M Benson
First time I have ever had any sort of a problem with E-on and have
been with them for yonks. VERY suspicious that this occurs just when
the Smart Meter comes into play.
We are with Npower and have both gas and electricity meters that think they
are ‘smart’;we don’t have a keypad or display to read on the meters, just
flashy lighty thingies AFAIK. We have not been given any code or
instructions to do with the meters other than a display box powered from
the mains which gives us various nuggets of information about our energy
useage including ‘current’ useage, daily consumption, also last ten days,
month and annual consumption plus costs.
Similarly here. We have an In Home Display (Bulb) on which I can set a
budget, and see at a glance all the things you mention. I don't need to
read the actual meter at all.
But could you do so if you wanted to?
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Sally Thompson
2019-09-13 10:50:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Penny
On 13 Sep 2019 09:05:24 GMT, Sally Thompson
Post by Sally Thompson
Post by Mike
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Jenny M Benson
I think I might have ranted hereabouts previously about the claim that
having a Smart Meter will reduce one's fuel bills.
Yesterday I got my first fuel ill from E-on since having a SM
installed. It is ENORMOUS. It is the biggest bill I have had for
ages, never mind the fact that this is the quarter when I use least fuel.
They're probably trying to average you over a year. (That still doesn't
mean they can't cock it up.) AFAIK all the energy companies like to do
that. (I asked one of them, if you're going to set a fixed payment, then
can I pay by standing order not DD? But no dice.)
FWIW I'm with Octopus (pretending to be M&S), and although they prefer
to DD a fixed amount, they have agreed to DD based on what I actually
use (smart meters).
Post by Jenny M Benson
I tried to read the proper meters to see if they agreed with what E-on
says the SM told them, but all I see is a blank screen with a tiny
keypad under it and no indication of how to see actual usage.
You should have been told by the person who installed it; IIRR you type
in a pin on the keypad (there may be an extra button you have to press
before or after). If he/she didn't, demand the necessary information
from your supplier; if they don't come up with it fairly sharpish, give
them notice you're going to stop the DD, and do so.
Post by Jenny M Benson
First time I have ever had any sort of a problem with E-on and have
been with them for yonks. VERY suspicious that this occurs just when
the Smart Meter comes into play.
We are with Npower and have both gas and electricity meters that think they
are ‘smart’;we don’t have a keypad or display to read on the meters, just
flashy lighty thingies AFAIK. We have not been given any code or
instructions to do with the meters other than a display box powered from
the mains which gives us various nuggets of information about our energy
useage including ‘current’ useage, daily consumption, also last ten days,
month and annual consumption plus costs.
Similarly here. We have an In Home Display (Bulb) on which I can set a
budget, and see at a glance all the things you mention. I don't need to
read the actual meter at all.
But could you do so if you wanted to?
Yes I could.
--
Sally in Shropshire, UK
Vicky Ayech
2019-09-13 10:17:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On 13 Sep 2019 09:05:24 GMT, Sally Thompson
Post by Sally Thompson
Similarly here. We have an In Home Display (Bulb) on which I can set a
budget, and see at a glance all the things you mention. I don't need to
read the actual meter at all. It's a second generation smart meter,
installed without a hitch by Siemens. I don't need any sort of pin; it's
just a little touch screen with the added advantage that I can, if I wish,
walk it round the house and see how the current usage varies as I turn
appliances on and off.
I've been asking bulb for such a meter since I joined them 18 months
ago. They have me onthe I want one of those list and the radio had
many adverts saying get a smart meter, and now and then I ask and last
time the nice assistant tome to register onthe I want one list again.
Not sure why.

I'm glad you got the second generation one as it was in the news this
week that some suppliers are still rolling out old style ones that
don't let the punter change supplier. There was a list of areas and
suppliers but I don't think bulb was on it.
Penny
2019-09-13 13:30:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 13 Sep 2019 11:17:55 +0100, Vicky Ayech <***@gmail.com>
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Vicky Ayech
I'm glad you got the second generation one as it was in the news this
week that some suppliers are still rolling out old style ones that
don't let the punter change supplier. There was a list of areas and
suppliers but I don't think bulb was on it.
My recent email from Bulb explicitly says the smart meter they were
offering could be used with any supplier so I've booked an appointment. It
also said they were "fitting them in my area" so presume they have some
regional plan - or it depends upon some Siemens* regional plan.

*I dare say other installers are available.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Jenny M Benson
2019-09-13 10:47:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sally Thompson
Similarly here. We have an In Home Display (Bulb) on which I can set a
budget, and see at a glance all the things you mention. I don't need to
read the actual meter at all. It's a second generation smart meter,
installed without a hitch by Siemens. I don't need any sort of pin; it's
just a little touch screen with the added advantage that I can, if I wish,
walk it round the house and see how the current usage varies as I turn
appliances on and off.
Yes, that's what I have indoors. But I wanted to check the "proper
meters" outside to see if they tallied with what E-on said. As
mentioned elsewhere, I have yet to read the instruction manual so I know
I could get masses of info from the little box in the hall, but haven't
bothered to get it to tell me anythig more than current (no pun
intended) consumption in £s.
--
Jenny M Benson
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2019-09-13 17:56:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
[]
Post by Sally Thompson
Post by Mike
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Jenny M Benson
I tried to read the proper meters to see if they agreed with what E-on
says the SM told them, but all I see is a blank screen with a tiny
keypad under it and no indication of how to see actual usage.
You should have been told by the person who installed it; IIRR you type
in a pin on the keypad (there may be an extra button you have to press
before or after). If he/she didn't, demand the necessary information
from your supplier; if they don't come up with it fairly sharpish, give
them notice you're going to stop the DD, and do so.
[]
Post by Sally Thompson
Post by Mike
are ‘smart’;we don’t have a keypad or display to read on the meters, just
flashy lighty thingies AFAIK. We have not been given any code or
instructions to do with the meters other than a display box powered from
the mains which gives us various nuggets of information about our energy
useage including ‘current’ useage, daily consumption, also last ten days,
month and annual consumption plus costs.
Similarly here. We have an In Home Display (Bulb) on which I can set a
[]
Oh, I've got one of the idiot displays too; it's just when Jenny
mentioned a blank screen with a keypad next to it on the actual meter, I
remembered (dimly) that that's what I'd been fitted with too.

The one on the gas meter, having no source of electricity, is battery
powered; it sends its reading to the one on the electricity meter, once
every 30 or 60 seconds I think. (You'll notice on your "friendly"
display, a lag before the boiler firing up - or shutting down -
registers.) To make the battery last as long as possible, they don't
even power the display, but you _can_ wake it up to see a reading, using
the keypad.

The one on the electricity meter, as well as getting the reading from
the gas one (via something similar to wifi), communicates with the
energy supplier, using the fobile moan network. (I think the chap who
fitted mine implied it uses whatever network it can find.) I think its
LC display is on all the time, though I think it has a keyboard too.

The booklet one or tworats have mentioned is, I think, just about the
tabletop display, and doesn't say anything about the real meters.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"When _I_ saw him, he was dead." "uh, he looked exactly the same when he was
alive, except he was vertical." (The Trouble with Harry)
Sally Thompson
2019-09-13 18:21:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by Sally Thompson
Post by Mike
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Jenny M Benson
I tried to read the proper meters to see if they agreed with what E-on
says the SM told them, but all I see is a blank screen with a tiny
keypad under it and no indication of how to see actual usage.
You should have been told by the person who installed it; IIRR you type
in a pin on the keypad (there may be an extra button you have to press
before or after). If he/she didn't, demand the necessary information
from your supplier; if they don't come up with it fairly sharpish, give
them notice you're going to stop the DD, and do so.
[]
Post by Sally Thompson
Post by Mike
are ‘smart’;we don’t have a keypad or display to read on the meters, just
flashy lighty thingies AFAIK. We have not been given any code or
instructions to do with the meters other than a display box powered from
the mains which gives us various nuggets of information about our energy
useage including ‘current’ useage, daily consumption, also last ten days,
month and annual consumption plus costs.
Similarly here. We have an In Home Display (Bulb) on which I can set a
[]
Oh, I've got one of the idiot displays too; it's just when Jenny
mentioned a blank screen with a keypad next to it on the actual meter, I
remembered (dimly) that that's what I'd been fitted with too.
The one on the gas meter, having no source of electricity, is battery
powered; it sends its reading to the one on the electricity meter, once
every 30 or 60 seconds I think. (You'll notice on your "friendly"
display, a lag before the boiler firing up - or shutting down -
registers.) To make the battery last as long as possible, they don't
even power the display, but you _can_ wake it up to see a reading, using
the keypad.
The one on the electricity meter, as well as getting the reading from
the gas one (via something similar to wifi), communicates with the
energy supplier, using the fobile moan network. (I think the chap who
fitted mine implied it uses whatever network it can find.) I think its
LC display is on all the time, though I think it has a keyboard too.
The booklet one or tworats have mentioned is, I think, just about the
tabletop display, and doesn't say anything about the real meters.
Mine isn't like that, jpeg. We don't have gas here for a start, nor do we
have a boiler! The In-Home display is plugged into the electrickery. The
battery is only a back up for if we want to take it to some remote device
to see how much it uses. There is no keyboard, it is a small touch screen.
--
Sally in Shropshire, UK
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2019-09-13 19:32:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sally Thompson
[]
Post by Jenny M Benson
I tried to read the proper meters to see if they agreed with what E-on
says the SM told them, but all I see is a blank screen with a tiny
keypad under it and no indication of how to see actual usage.
[]
Post by Sally Thompson
Mine isn't like that, jpeg. We don't have gas here for a start, nor do we
have a boiler! The In-Home display is plugged into the electrickery. The
battery is only a back up for if we want to take it to some remote device
to see how much it uses. There is no keyboard, it is a small touch screen.
I'm not talking about the little thing with a display they gave you for
the living room or wherever. I'm talking about the actual smart meter
itself, buried wherever it was when it was dumb - in a box, cupboard, or
whatever: does that have no display at all?
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

A waist is a terrible thing to mind.
Sally Thompson
2019-09-13 19:44:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Sally Thompson
[]
Post by Jenny M Benson
I tried to read the proper meters to see if they agreed with what E-on
says the SM told them, but all I see is a blank screen with a tiny
keypad under it and no indication of how to see actual usage.
[]
Post by Sally Thompson
Mine isn't like that, jpeg. We don't have gas here for a start, nor do we
have a boiler! The In-Home display is plugged into the electrickery. The
battery is only a back up for if we want to take it to some remote device
to see how much it uses. There is no keyboard, it is a small touch screen.
I'm not talking about the little thing with a display they gave you for
the living room or wherever. I'm talking about the actual smart meter
itself, buried wherever it was when it was dumb - in a box, cupboard, or
whatever: does that have no display at all?
Yes, of course it does. I just have no need to look at it, having set a
daily budget. I can see instantly how much I've used. The meter gives a
normal type reading - no keypad or anything. The engineer said that in some
households there is a very bad signal. In those cases they install the
meter anyway and the householder has to read it in the normal way, until
whatever is needed is done to improve the signal. I asked did he mean
WiFi, but he didn't, so I assume it's connecting to a mast of some kind.
--
Sally in Shropshire, UK
Kate B
2019-09-13 19:55:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sally Thompson
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Sally Thompson
[]
Post by Jenny M Benson
I tried to read the proper meters to see if they agreed with what E-on
says the SM told them, but all I see is a blank screen with a tiny
keypad under it and no indication of how to see actual usage.
[]
Post by Sally Thompson
Mine isn't like that, jpeg. We don't have gas here for a start, nor do we
have a boiler! The In-Home display is plugged into the electrickery. The
battery is only a back up for if we want to take it to some remote device
to see how much it uses. There is no keyboard, it is a small touch screen.
I'm not talking about the little thing with a display they gave you for
the living room or wherever. I'm talking about the actual smart meter
itself, buried wherever it was when it was dumb - in a box, cupboard, or
whatever: does that have no display at all?
Yes, of course it does. I just have no need to look at it, having set a
daily budget. I can see instantly how much I've used. The meter gives a
normal type reading - no keypad or anything. The engineer said that in some
households there is a very bad signal. In those cases they install the
meter anyway and the householder has to read it in the normal way, until
whatever is needed is done to improve the signal. I asked did he mean
WiFi, but he didn't, so I assume it's connecting to a mast of some kind.
We looked into getting smart meters, but apart from the fact that our
electricity comes into a fuseboard that still works on wires, both
meters are below ground level and on either side of the house - gas
comes in on one side, electricity on the other. This means that they can
hardly see each other and neither can get a phone signal. So we are just
staying put for time being. Himself reads both meters every Sunday so I
am kept up-to-date on how much gas and electricity *I* am using on *my*
cooker, washing machine, kettle, iron, heating requirements etc...
--
Kate B
London
Penny
2019-09-13 19:58:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 13 Sep 2019 20:55:14 +0100, Kate B <***@nospam.demon.co.uk>
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Kate B
Himself reads both meters every Sunday so I
am kept up-to-date on how much gas and electricity *I* am using on *my*
cooker, washing machine, kettle, iron, heating requirements etc...
:D
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Chris McMillan
2019-09-14 14:52:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Kate B
Post by Sally Thompson
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Sally Thompson
[]
Post by Jenny M Benson
I tried to read the proper meters to see if they agreed with what E-on
says the SM told them, but all I see is a blank screen with a tiny
keypad under it and no indication of how to see actual usage.
[]
Post by Sally Thompson
Mine isn't like that, jpeg. We don't have gas here for a start, nor do we
have a boiler! The In-Home display is plugged into the electrickery. The
battery is only a back up for if we want to take it to some remote device
to see how much it uses. There is no keyboard, it is a small touch screen.
I'm not talking about the little thing with a display they gave you for
the living room or wherever. I'm talking about the actual smart meter
itself, buried wherever it was when it was dumb - in a box, cupboard, or
whatever: does that have no display at all?
Yes, of course it does. I just have no need to look at it, having set a
daily budget. I can see instantly how much I've used. The meter gives a
normal type reading - no keypad or anything. The engineer said that in some
households there is a very bad signal. In those cases they install the
meter anyway and the householder has to read it in the normal way, until
whatever is needed is done to improve the signal. I asked did he mean
WiFi, but he didn't, so I assume it's connecting to a mast of some kind.
We looked into getting smart meters, but apart from the fact that our
electricity comes into a fuseboard that still works on wires, both
meters are below ground level and on either side of the house - gas
comes in on one side, electricity on the other. This means that they can
hardly see each other and neither can get a phone signal. So we are just
staying put for time being. Himself reads both meters every Sunday so I
am kept up-to-date on how much gas and electricity *I* am using on *my*
cooker, washing machine, kettle, iron, heating requirements etc...
LOL!

Sincerely Chris
Penny
2019-09-13 19:55:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On 13 Sep 2019 19:44:52 GMT, Sally Thompson
Post by Sally Thompson
The engineer said that in some
households there is a very bad signal. In those cases they install the
meter anyway and the householder has to read it in the normal way, until
whatever is needed is done to improve the signal. I asked did he mean
WiFi, but he didn't, so I assume it's connecting to a mast of some kind.
Mobile network, as jpg(?) said. I know there are still plenty of Not Spots
in these hills. Fortunately I don't live in one.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Sam Plusnet
2019-10-04 20:33:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Penny
On 13 Sep 2019 19:44:52 GMT, Sally Thompson
Post by Sally Thompson
The engineer said that in some
households there is a very bad signal. In those cases they install the
meter anyway and the householder has to read it in the normal way, until
whatever is needed is done to improve the signal. I asked did he mean
WiFi, but he didn't, so I assume it's connecting to a mast of some kind.
Mobile network, as jpg(?) said. I know there are still plenty of Not Spots
in these hills. Fortunately I don't live in one.
We do. This is one reason why I resist all entreaties to have 'smart'
meters installed.
--
Sam Plusnet
Penny
2019-10-05 08:59:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 4 Oct 2019 21:33:48 +0100, Sam Plusnet <***@home.com> scrawled in
the dust...
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Penny
On 13 Sep 2019 19:44:52 GMT, Sally Thompson
Post by Sally Thompson
The engineer said that in some
households there is a very bad signal. In those cases they install the
meter anyway and the householder has to read it in the normal way, until
whatever is needed is done to improve the signal. I asked did he mean
WiFi, but he didn't, so I assume it's connecting to a mast of some kind.
Mobile network, as jpg(?) said. I know there are still plenty of Not Spots
in these hills. Fortunately I don't live in one.
We do. This is one reason why I resist all entreaties to have 'smart'
meters installed.
The engineer told me 'the network' was down when he was fitting mine. I
think he said it was their own network, not a mobile phone one. It came
back during the fitting process and was working when he left. Which, in
conjunction with Sally's comment, suggests they expand/boost the network to
meet the need.

I've needed the heating on since the day the meters were fitted and am
slightly alarmed to find it costs 50p to warm the house up in the morning.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Jenny M Benson
2019-09-13 20:22:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I'm not talking about the little thing with a display they gave you for
the living room or wherever. I'm talking about the actual smart meter
itself, buried wherever it was when it was dumb - in a box, cupboard, or
whatever: does that have no display at all?
No, that's what I meant when I said I couldn't read the meter because it
was a blank screen with a little keypad under it. So it presumably does
have a display if you know how to persuade it to let you in on the secret.

I sent a message to E-on to-day and got an on-screen apology and an
e-mail to say that that always tried to answer quickly but were
experiencing a lot of calls so there could be delays. Well, that's not
good enough! Either they're getting more calls than usual because they
are cocking up more often and/or they just aren't employing enough
staff. They'd be better off keeping schtum!
--
Jenny M Benson
Fenny
2019-09-13 21:53:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 13 Sep 2019 21:22:53 +0100, Jenny M Benson
Post by Jenny M Benson
I sent a message to E-on to-day and got an on-screen apology and an
e-mail to say that that always tried to answer quickly but were
experiencing a lot of calls so there could be delays. Well, that's not
good enough! Either they're getting more calls than usual because they
are cocking up more often and/or they just aren't employing enough
staff. They'd be better off keeping schtum!
That's what I always think whenever I ring any organisation that
demands I call them to deal with some level of their incompetence. I'd
far rather send them an email and get on with my life while I wait for
an answer than hang on the phone wondering whether their entire
customer base chose the same moment as me to get in touch. If call
levels are unexpectedly high, what's gone wrong?
--
Fenny
Vicky Ayech
2019-09-14 08:18:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 13 Sep 2019 22:53:54 +0100, Fenny
Post by Fenny
On Fri, 13 Sep 2019 21:22:53 +0100, Jenny M Benson
Post by Jenny M Benson
I sent a message to E-on to-day and got an on-screen apology and an
e-mail to say that that always tried to answer quickly but were
experiencing a lot of calls so there could be delays. Well, that's not
good enough! Either they're getting more calls than usual because they
are cocking up more often and/or they just aren't employing enough
staff. They'd be better off keeping schtum!
That's what I always think whenever I ring any organisation that
demands I call them to deal with some level of their incompetence. I'd
far rather send them an email and get on with my life while I wait for
an answer than hang on the phone wondering whether their entire
customer base chose the same moment as me to get in touch. If call
levels are unexpectedly high, what's gone wrong?
YANAOU
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2019-09-14 10:01:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Vicky Ayech
On Fri, 13 Sep 2019 22:53:54 +0100, Fenny
Post by Fenny
On Fri, 13 Sep 2019 21:22:53 +0100, Jenny M Benson
Post by Jenny M Benson
I sent a message to E-on to-day and got an on-screen apology and an
e-mail to say that that always tried to answer quickly but were
experiencing a lot of calls so there could be delays. Well, that's not
I feel I see/hear that increasingly often these days.
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Fenny
Post by Jenny M Benson
good enough! Either they're getting more calls than usual because they
are cocking up more often and/or they just aren't employing enough
Agreed.
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Fenny
Post by Jenny M Benson
staff. They'd be better off keeping schtum!
If I'm on the 'phone waiting, I'm not sure.
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Fenny
That's what I always think whenever I ring any organisation that
demands I call them to deal with some level of their incompetence. I'd
far rather send them an email and get on with my life while I wait for
an answer than hang on the phone wondering whether their entire
customer base chose the same moment as me to get in touch. If call
levels are unexpectedly high, what's gone wrong?
YANAOU
Not only the time wasted, but I'd far rather be able to keep a record of
the correspondence. (I know you can record 'phone calls, but it's fiddly
- and from time to time someone on a newsgroup says it's illegal. [My
contention is that it isn't, at least if you say you're doing it, and
probably even if you don't. But it's still a faff (sp?).])

Though getting an actual _email_ address out of most of them makes
blood/stone seem like child's play. So many of them even _call_ using a
webform "sending us an email"; I always say "(something with an @ in
it)" when explaining what I want. [So far, they haven't started giving
me Twitter "addresses", but that'll come in time )-:.]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

A lot of people think that being skinny is the happy ending, and its not.
Being happy is the happy ending. - Sarah Millican, in Radio Times 3-9 March
2012
Vicky Ayech
2019-09-14 10:19:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sat, 14 Sep 2019 11:01:10 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Vicky Ayech
On Fri, 13 Sep 2019 22:53:54 +0100, Fenny
Post by Fenny
On Fri, 13 Sep 2019 21:22:53 +0100, Jenny M Benson
Post by Jenny M Benson
I sent a message to E-on to-day and got an on-screen apology and an
e-mail to say that that always tried to answer quickly but were
experiencing a lot of calls so there could be delays. Well, that's not
I feel I see/hear that increasingly often these days.
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Fenny
Post by Jenny M Benson
good enough! Either they're getting more calls than usual because they
are cocking up more often and/or they just aren't employing enough
Agreed.
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Fenny
Post by Jenny M Benson
staff. They'd be better off keeping schtum!
If I'm on the 'phone waiting, I'm not sure.
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Fenny
That's what I always think whenever I ring any organisation that
demands I call them to deal with some level of their incompetence. I'd
far rather send them an email and get on with my life while I wait for
an answer than hang on the phone wondering whether their entire
customer base chose the same moment as me to get in touch. If call
levels are unexpectedly high, what's gone wrong?
YANAOU
Not only the time wasted, but I'd far rather be able to keep a record of
the correspondence. (I know you can record 'phone calls, but it's fiddly
- and from time to time someone on a newsgroup says it's illegal. [My
contention is that it isn't, at least if you say you're doing it, and
probably even if you don't. But it's still a faff (sp?).])
Though getting an actual _email_ address out of most of them makes
blood/stone seem like child's play. So many of them even _call_ using a
it)" when explaining what I want. [So far, they haven't started giving
me Twitter "addresses", but that'll come in time )-:.]
You can search twitter for the organisation. That works better than an
email complaint and you can message via there too.
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2019-09-14 10:50:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Vicky Ayech
On Sat, 14 Sep 2019 11:01:10 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
[]
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Though getting an actual _email_ address out of most of them makes
blood/stone seem like child's play. So many of them even _call_ using a
it)" when explaining what I want. [So far, they haven't started giving
me Twitter "addresses", but that'll come in time )-:.]
You can search twitter for the organisation. That works better than an
email complaint and you can message via there too.
Not so easy to keep copies though. (I know Twitter will log such.) Also,
I don't _always_ want to make my discussions public - not so much for
privacy concerns (though those too), but because I'm usually on about
something very specific, and much of the conversation is getting the
other end to grasp what I'm on about, which would be somewhat boring for
others to read - and make me out to be a boring pedant. Which I know I
_am_, but I don't want to stress it on Twitter and frighten off my
followers (of whom I only have 25 after 7 months).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Is it OK to enjoy good work by bad men?
- Michael Hodges interviewing Mary Beard, for RT 2018/4/21-27
Kate B
2019-09-14 11:12:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Vicky Ayech
On Sat, 14 Sep 2019 11:01:10 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
[]
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Though getting an actual _email_ address out of most of them makes
blood/stone seem like child's play. So many of them even _call_ using a
it)" when explaining what I want. [So far, they haven't started giving
me Twitter "addresses", but that'll come in time )-:.]
You can search twitter for the organisation. That works better than an
email complaint and you can message via there too.
Not so easy to keep copies though. (I know Twitter will log such.) Also,
I don't _always_ want to make my discussions public - not so much for
privacy concerns (though those too), but because I'm usually on about
something very specific, and much of the conversation is getting the
other end to grasp what I'm on about, which would be somewhat boring for
others to read - and make me out to be a boring pedant. Which I know I
_am_, but I don't want to stress it on Twitter and frighten off my
followers (of whom I only have 25 after 7 months).
You can very often open a chat box. I find this very useful with tech
companies and you often get a better response than if you try to ring
them. Also you can usually download the chat transcript, which has
proved invaluable a few times. Of course, this pre-supposes you get a
live person on the other end of the chat and not a bot.
--
Kate B
London
Mike
2019-09-14 13:47:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Kate B
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Vicky Ayech
On Sat, 14 Sep 2019 11:01:10 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
[]
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Though getting an actual _email_ address out of most of them makes
blood/stone seem like child's play. So many of them even _call_ using a
it)" when explaining what I want. [So far, they haven't started giving
me Twitter "addresses", but that'll come in time )-:.]
You can search twitter for the organisation. That works better than an
email complaint and you can message via there too.
Not so easy to keep copies though. (I know Twitter will log such.) Also,
I don't _always_ want to make my discussions public - not so much for
privacy concerns (though those too), but because I'm usually on about
something very specific, and much of the conversation is getting the
other end to grasp what I'm on about, which would be somewhat boring for
others to read - and make me out to be a boring pedant. Which I know I
_am_, but I don't want to stress it on Twitter and frighten off my
followers (of whom I only have 25 after 7 months).
You can very often open a chat box. I find this very useful with tech
companies and you often get a better response than if you try to ring
them. Also you can usually download the chat transcript, which has
proved invaluable a few times. Of course, this pre-supposes you get a
live person on the other end of the chat and not a bot.
From the time it can take for responses, I think the ‘other end’ is dealing
with multiple chats though.
--
Toodle Pip
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2019-09-14 15:18:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mike
Post by Kate B
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Vicky Ayech
On Sat, 14 Sep 2019 11:01:10 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
[]
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Though getting an actual _email_ address out of most of them makes
blood/stone seem like child's play. So many of them even _call_ using a
it)" when explaining what I want. [So far, they haven't started giving
me Twitter "addresses", but that'll come in time )-:.]
You can search twitter for the organisation. That works better than an
email complaint and you can message via there too.
Not so easy to keep copies though. (I know Twitter will log such.) Also,
I don't _always_ want to make my discussions public - not so much for
privacy concerns (though those too), but because I'm usually on about
something very specific, and much of the conversation is getting the
other end to grasp what I'm on about, which would be somewhat boring for
others to read - and make me out to be a boring pedant. Which I know I
_am_, but I don't want to stress it on Twitter and frighten off my
followers (of whom I only have 25 after 7 months).
You can very often open a chat box. I find this very useful with tech
companies and you often get a better response than if you try to ring
Very true. Though - like the 'phone - it depends to a great extent on
the quality of the person you get. (Mostly meaning the quality of the
_training_ they have been given, rather than much about the individual
themselves. Though I've had both thick and deceitful ones. [And before
anyone says anything: no, I would _not_ like to do the job.])
Post by Mike
Post by Kate B
them. Also you can usually download the chat transcript, which has
Yes, I once got an offer extended from PlusNet on the basis of that!
(Not a chat transcript, a ticket, but similar principle.)
Post by Mike
Post by Kate B
proved invaluable a few times. Of course, this pre-supposes you get a
live person on the other end of the chat and not a bot.
I've _rarely_ had a bot.
Post by Mike
From the time it can take for responses, I think the ‘other end’ is dealing
with multiple chats though.
Yes )-:.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

As for cooking, what a bore that is. It's such a faff, thinking of what to
have, buying it and cooking it and clearing up, then all you do is eat it -
and have to start all over again next day. Hunter Davies, RT 2017/2/4-10
Joe Kerr
2019-09-15 17:30:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mike
Post by Kate B
You can very often open a chat box. I find this very useful with tech
companies and you often get a better response than if you try to ring
them. Also you can usually download the chat transcript, which has
proved invaluable a few times. Of course, this pre-supposes you get a
live person on the other end of the chat and not a bot.
From the time it can take for responses, I think the ‘other end’ is dealing
with multiple chats though.
And therefore forgetting what you have already told them so you have to
go over the problem multiple times.
--
Ric
Mike
2019-09-15 17:39:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Joe Kerr
Post by Mike
Post by Kate B
You can very often open a chat box. I find this very useful with tech
companies and you often get a better response than if you try to ring
them. Also you can usually download the chat transcript, which has
proved invaluable a few times. Of course, this pre-supposes you get a
live person on the other end of the chat and not a bot.
From the time it can take for responses, I think the ‘other end’ is dealing
with multiple chats though.
And therefore forgetting what you have already told them so you have to
go over the problem multiple times.
Yeap, indeed they do!
--
Toodle Pip
Vicky Ayech
2019-09-15 21:02:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Joe Kerr
Post by Kate B
You can very often open a chat box. I find this very useful with tech
companies and you often get a better response than if you try to ring
them. Also you can usually download the chat transcript, which has
proved invaluable a few times. Of course, this pre-supposes you get a
live person on the other end of the chat and not a bot.
From the time it can take for responses, I think the ‘other end’ is dealing
with multiple chats though.
And therefore forgetting what you have already told them so you have to
go over the problem multiple times.
I find with email communication they never read back down the email to
see what was said previously.
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2019-09-15 21:12:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Joe Kerr
Post by Mike
Post by Kate B
You can very often open a chat box. I find this very useful with tech
companies and you often get a better response than if you try to ring
them. Also you can usually download the chat transcript, which has
proved invaluable a few times. Of course, this pre-supposes you get a
live person on the other end of the chat and not a bot.
From the time it can take for responses, I think the ‘other end’ is dealing
with multiple chats though.
And therefore forgetting what you have already told them so you have to
go over the problem multiple times.
I find with email communication they never read back down the email to
see what was said previously.
They usually don't read more than about the first line; raising more
than one point in an email is a depressing experience. Giving details
that you know they'll need, ditto.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

The desire to remain private and/or anonymous used to be a core British value,
but in recent times it has been treated with suspicion - an unfortunate by-
product of the widespread desire for fame. - Chris Middleton,
Computing 6 September 2011
Mike
2019-09-16 07:25:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Joe Kerr
Post by Mike
Post by Kate B
You can very often open a chat box. I find this very useful with tech
companies and you often get a better response than if you try to ring
them. Also you can usually download the chat transcript, which has
proved invaluable a few times. Of course, this pre-supposes you get a
live person on the other end of the chat and not a bot.
From the time it can take for responses, I think the ‘other end’ is dealing
with multiple chats though.
And therefore forgetting what you have already told them so you have to
go over the problem multiple times.
I find with email communication they never read back down the email to
see what was said previously.
They usually don't read more than about the first line; raising more
than one point in an email is a depressing experience. Giving details
that you know they'll need, ditto.
And before you can start a ‘chat’ you have to provide masses of details
that when they do start typing to you are requested all over again!
--
Toodle Pip
Joe Kerr
2019-09-16 14:53:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mike
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Joe Kerr
Post by Mike
Post by Kate B
You can very often open a chat box. I find this very useful with tech
companies and you often get a better response than if you try to ring
them. Also you can usually download the chat transcript, which has
proved invaluable a few times. Of course, this pre-supposes you get a
live person on the other end of the chat and not a bot.
From the time it can take for responses, I think the ‘other end’ is dealing
with multiple chats though.
And therefore forgetting what you have already told them so you have to
go over the problem multiple times.
I find with email communication they never read back down the email to
see what was said previously.
They usually don't read more than about the first line; raising more
than one point in an email is a depressing experience. Giving details
that you know they'll need, ditto.
And before you can start a ‘chat’ you have to provide masses of details
that when they do start typing to you are requested all over again!
You mean like providing your email address when contacting your ISP who
then refuses to talk to you because they can't find any evidence that
you have an account with them?
--
Ric
Mike
2019-09-16 15:03:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Joe Kerr
Post by Mike
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Joe Kerr
Post by Mike
Post by Kate B
You can very often open a chat box. I find this very useful with tech
companies and you often get a better response than if you try to ring
them. Also you can usually download the chat transcript, which has
proved invaluable a few times. Of course, this pre-supposes you get a
live person on the other end of the chat and not a bot.
From the time it can take for responses, I think the ‘other end’ is dealing
with multiple chats though.
And therefore forgetting what you have already told them so you have to
go over the problem multiple times.
I find with email communication they never read back down the email to
see what was said previously.
They usually don't read more than about the first line; raising more
than one point in an email is a depressing experience. Giving details
that you know they'll need, ditto.
And before you can start a ‘chat’ you have to provide masses of details
that when they do start typing to you are requested all over again!
You mean like providing your email address when contacting your ISP who
then refuses to talk to you because they can't find any evidence that
you have an account with them?
Talking of ‘non-existent’ accounts Umrats may recall that there was a
kerfuffle over dishonest practice in the Reading branch of Halifax/Lloyds a
few years back.... well we had an account at the time with our investments
in that we were told by one employee ‘did not exist’. We gave them the full
account number and were told ‘no account by that number exists’. We went in
later with letter headed Halifax account details and after further
enquiries were told... Oh Sorry! Your account does exist, we hadn’t
included the leading zeros in the number when entering your details. Yeah,
right.... we don’t know to this day whether we had a narrow escape from
some mal-practice.
--
Toodle Pip
Penny
2019-09-16 18:37:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Mon, 16 Sep 2019 15:03:07 GMT, Mike <***@ntlworld.com> scrawled
in the dust...
Post by Mike
Talking of ‘non-existent’ accounts Umrats may recall that there was a
kerfuffle over dishonest practice in the Reading branch of Halifax/Lloyds a
few years back.... well we had an account at the time with our investments
in that we were told by one employee ‘did not exist’. We gave them the full
account number and were told ‘no account by that number exists’. We went in
later with letter headed Halifax account details and after further
enquiries were told... Oh Sorry! Your account does exist, we hadn’t
included the leading zeros in the number when entering your details. Yeah,
right.... we don’t know to this day whether we had a narrow escape from
some mal-practice.
Interesting, I hadn't realised Halifax was now part of the Lloyds TSB
group. I was doing a survey about banking institutions the other day and
realised Halifax are still on my don't-touch-with-a-barge-pole list because
of some (similar) cock-up they made way back in the late '60s which caused
my mother a lot of grief. I wondered if I was perhaps being unfair to them
by holding this grudge (I'm a great holder of grudges, I think it's
genetic) for so long. It sounds like things haven't actually changed much
there :(
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Flop
2019-09-17 08:30:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Penny
Interesting, I hadn't realised Halifax was now part of the Lloyds TSB
group. I was doing a survey about banking institutions the other day and
realised Halifax are still on my don't-touch-with-a-barge-pole list because
of some (similar) cock-up they made way back in the late '60s which caused
my mother a lot of grief. I wondered if I was perhaps being unfair to them
by holding this grudge (I'm a great holder of grudges, I think it's
genetic) for so long. It sounds like things haven't actually changed much
there :(
These things are important.

As well as TSB, Lloyds now include Lloyds Bank, Halifax, Bank of
Scotland and Scottish Widows.

All these banks are in a common Financial Services Compensation Scheme -
except Halifax.

Halifax has its own FSCS but this includes: Halifax, Intelligent Finance
(IF), Birmingham Midshires (BM Savings), Bank of Scotland, Bank of
Scotland Private Banking, Bank of Wales and St. James's Place Bank. Some
savings accounts under the AA Savings and Saga brand names are also
deposits with Bank of Scotland plc.

The importance of the FSCS is that your investment is protected up to
£85,000 should the bank fail. But the £85k covers deposits in *all* the
banks inthescheme.

So, £50k in LLoyds and £50k in Halifax is ok. But £50k in Bank of
Scotland and £50k in Halifax is not.
--
Flop

Truly the Good Lord gave us computers that we might learn patience
Penny
2019-09-17 08:58:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 17 Sep 2019 09:30:40 +0100, Flop <***@flop.knot.me.uk> scrawled in
the dust...
Post by Flop
Post by Penny
Interesting, I hadn't realised Halifax was now part of the Lloyds TSB
group. I was doing a survey about banking institutions the other day and
realised Halifax are still on my don't-touch-with-a-barge-pole list because
of some (similar) cock-up they made way back in the late '60s which caused
my mother a lot of grief. I wondered if I was perhaps being unfair to them
by holding this grudge (I'm a great holder of grudges, I think it's
genetic) for so long. It sounds like things haven't actually changed much
there :(
These things are important.
As well as TSB, Lloyds now include Lloyds Bank, Halifax, Bank of
Scotland and Scottish Widows.
All these banks are in a common Financial Services Compensation Scheme -
except Halifax.
Halifax has its own FSCS but this includes: Halifax, Intelligent Finance
(IF), Birmingham Midshires (BM Savings), Bank of Scotland, Bank of
Scotland Private Banking, Bank of Wales and St. James's Place Bank. Some
savings accounts under the AA Savings and Saga brand names are also
deposits with Bank of Scotland plc.
The importance of the FSCS is that your investment is protected up to
£85,000 should the bank fail. But the £85k covers deposits in *all* the
banks inthescheme.
So, £50k in LLoyds and £50k in Halifax is ok. But £50k in Bank of
Scotland and £50k in Halifax is not.
Even more interesting, thanks.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2019-09-17 09:02:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Penny
the dust...
Post by Flop
Post by Penny
Interesting, I hadn't realised Halifax was now part of the Lloyds TSB
group. I was doing a survey about banking institutions the other day and
realised Halifax are still on my don't-touch-with-a-barge-pole list because
of some (similar) cock-up they made way back in the late '60s which caused
my mother a lot of grief. I wondered if I was perhaps being unfair to them
by holding this grudge (I'm a great holder of grudges, I think it's
genetic) for so long. It sounds like things haven't actually changed much
there :(
These things are important.
As well as TSB, Lloyds now include Lloyds Bank, Halifax, Bank of
Scotland and Scottish Widows.
All these banks are in a common Financial Services Compensation Scheme -
except Halifax.
Halifax has its own FSCS but this includes: Halifax, Intelligent Finance
(IF), Birmingham Midshires (BM Savings), Bank of Scotland, Bank of
Scotland Private Banking, Bank of Wales and St. James's Place Bank. Some
savings accounts under the AA Savings and Saga brand names are also
deposits with Bank of Scotland plc.
The importance of the FSCS is that your investment is protected up to
£85,000 should the bank fail. But the £85k covers deposits in *all* the
banks inthescheme.
So, £50k in LLoyds and £50k in Halifax is ok. But £50k in Bank of
Scotland and £50k in Halifax is not.
Even more interesting, thanks.
There are charts/lists/whatever of which financial institutions are
grouped - the above information covers many (First Direct is part of
HSBC is another one): I think the MoneySavingExpert site has such a
chart.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

If you can't construct a coherent argument for the other side, you probably
don't understand your own opinion. - Scott Adams, 2015
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2019-09-17 09:50:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Penny
the dust...
[]
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Penny
Post by Flop
These things are important.
As well as TSB, Lloyds now include Lloyds Bank, Halifax, Bank of
Scotland and Scottish Widows.
All these banks are in a common Financial Services Compensation Scheme -
except Halifax.
Halifax has its own FSCS but this includes: Halifax, Intelligent Finance
(IF), Birmingham Midshires (BM Savings), Bank of Scotland, Bank of
Scotland Private Banking, Bank of Wales and St. James's Place Bank. Some
savings accounts under the AA Savings and Saga brand names are also
deposits with Bank of Scotland plc.
The importance of the FSCS is that your investment is protected up to
£85,000 should the bank fail. But the £85k covers deposits in *all* the
banks inthescheme.
So, £50k in LLoyds and £50k in Halifax is ok. But £50k in Bank of
Scotland and £50k in Halifax is not.
Even more interesting, thanks.
There are charts/lists/whatever of which financial institutions are
grouped - the above information covers many (First Direct is part of
HSBC is another one): I think the MoneySavingExpert site has such a
chart.
As a public service, I've done battle with the MSE website, and
https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/savings/safe-savings/#tool is the bit
you want. Unfortunately (IMO) it's no longer a simple table/chart, but a
"tool" - you pick one bank, and it tells you which other banks are in
the same "group" for FSCS purposes. But the information is there. (Along
with lots of other mostly useful information on the general page
https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/savings/safe-savings .) Note that it
includes things you might not have thought of as banks, such as the AA.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

31.69 nHz = once a year. (Julian Thomas)
tiny hadron
2019-09-17 11:00:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
As a public service, I've done battle with the MSE website, and
https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/savings/safe-savings/#tool is the bit
you want. Unfortunately (IMO) it's no longer a simple table/chart, but a
"tool" - you pick one bank, and it tells you which other banks are in
the same "group" for FSCS purposes. But the information is there.
The Bank of England provides plain tables of the FSCS-qualifying brands
within each of the Prudential Regulation Authority (PRA) authorised
banks and building societies: <https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/prudential-regulation/authorisations/financial-services-compensation-scheme>.
krw
2019-09-17 09:14:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Flop
Post by Penny
Interesting, I hadn't realised Halifax was now part of the Lloyds TSB
group. I was doing a survey about banking institutions the other day and
realised Halifax are still on my don't-touch-with-a-barge-pole list because
of some (similar) cock-up they made way back in the late '60s which caused
my mother a lot of grief. I wondered if I was perhaps being unfair to them
by holding this grudge (I'm a great holder of grudges, I think it's
genetic) for so long. It sounds like things haven't actually changed much
there :(
These things are important.
As well as TSB, Lloyds now include Lloyds Bank, Halifax, Bank of
Scotland and Scottish Widows.
All these banks are in a common Financial Services Compensation Scheme -
except Halifax.
Halifax has its own FSCS but this includes: Halifax, Intelligent Finance
(IF), Birmingham Midshires (BM Savings), Bank of Scotland, Bank of
Scotland Private Banking, Bank of Wales and St. James's Place Bank. Some
savings accounts under the AA Savings and Saga brand names are also
deposits with Bank of Scotland plc.
The importance of the FSCS is that your investment is protected up to
£85,000 should the bank fail. But the £85k covers deposits in *all* the
banks inthescheme.
So, £50k in LLoyds and £50k in Halifax is ok. But £50k in Bank of
Scotland and £50k in Halifax is not.
Lloyds flogged TSB to a Spanish bank before the IT problems were forced
on TSB by not testing the transition. I would not otherwise argue with
the above.
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
Nick Odell
2019-09-16 16:28:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Joe Kerr
Post by Mike
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Joe Kerr
Post by Kate B
You can very often open a chat box. I find this very useful with tech
companies and you often get a better response than if you try to ring
them. Also you can usually download the chat transcript, which has
proved invaluable a few times. Of course, this pre-supposes you get a
live person on the other end of the chat and not a bot.
 From the time it can take for responses, I think the ‘other end’
is dealing
with multiple chats though.
And therefore forgetting what you have already told them so you have to
go over the problem multiple times.
I find with email communication they never read back down the email to
see what was said previously.
They usually don't read more than about the first line; raising more
than one point in an email is a depressing experience. Giving details
that you know they'll need, ditto.
And before you can start a ‘chat’ you have to provide masses of details
that when they do start typing to you are requested all over again!
You mean like providing your email address when contacting your ISP who
then refuses to talk to you because they can't find any evidence that
you have an account with them?
"If I don't have an account with you, I'd like a refund for all those
payments I've been making, please."

Nick
Mike
2019-09-16 17:27:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Joe Kerr
Post by Mike
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Joe Kerr
Post by Kate B
You can very often open a chat box. I find this very useful with tech
companies and you often get a better response than if you try to ring
them. Also you can usually download the chat transcript, which has
proved invaluable a few times. Of course, this pre-supposes you get a
live person on the other end of the chat and not a bot.
 From the time it can take for responses, I think the ‘other end’
is dealing
with multiple chats though.
And therefore forgetting what you have already told them so you have to
go over the problem multiple times.
I find with email communication they never read back down the email to
see what was said previously.
They usually don't read more than about the first line; raising more
than one point in an email is a depressing experience. Giving details
that you know they'll need, ditto.
And before you can start a ‘chat’ you have to provide masses of details
that when they do start typing to you are requested all over again!
You mean like providing your email address when contacting your ISP who
then refuses to talk to you because they can't find any evidence that
you have an account with them?
"If I don't have an account with you, I'd like a refund for all those
payments I've been making, please."
Nick
‘We will refund it to your non-existent account Sir.
--
Toodle Pip
Chris J Dixon
2019-09-16 07:26:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Joe Kerr
And therefore forgetting what you have already told them so you have to
go over the problem multiple times.
I really dislike web forms. With the worst of them you never get
an acknowledgement, and it they do reply, your original text is
not shown. They will then tell you that any follow up requires
you to go back to the web interface. :-(

I tend to grab a copy of what I have written, so that I don't
have to rewrite it when nothing happens, and I can check what I
said when they completely misunderstand/ ignore it.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham
'48/33 M B+ G++ A L(-) I S-- CH0(--)(p) Ar- T+ H0 ?Q
***@cdixon.me.uk @ChrisJDixon1
Plant amazing Acers.
Nick Odell
2019-09-14 14:00:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Vicky Ayech
On Sat, 14 Sep 2019 11:01:10 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
[]
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Though getting an actual _email_ address out of most of them makes
blood/stone seem like child's play. So many of them even _call_ using a
it)" when explaining what I want. [So far, they haven't started giving
me Twitter "addresses", but that'll come in time )-:.]
You can search twitter for the organisation. That works better than an
email complaint and you can message via there too.
Not so easy to keep copies though. (I know Twitter will log such.) Also,
I don't _always_ want to make my discussions public - not so much for
privacy concerns (though those too), but because I'm usually on about
something very specific, and much of the conversation is getting the
other end to grasp what I'm on about, which would be somewhat boring for
others to read - and make me out to be a boring pedant. Which I know I
_am_, but I don't want to stress it on Twitter and frighten off my
followers (of whom I only have 25 after 7 months).
I am nether a tweeter nor a reader of tweets but as a reader of
newspapers which which write about tweets I get the impression that the
louder and swearier and shoutier you are, the more followers will swarm
in your direction.

Nick
Mike
2019-09-14 14:29:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Nick Odell
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Vicky Ayech
On Sat, 14 Sep 2019 11:01:10 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
[]
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Though getting an actual _email_ address out of most of them makes
blood/stone seem like child's play. So many of them even _call_ using a
it)" when explaining what I want. [So far, they haven't started giving
me Twitter "addresses", but that'll come in time )-:.]
You can search twitter for the organisation. That works better than an
email complaint and you can message via there too.
Not so easy to keep copies though. (I know Twitter will log such.) Also,
I don't _always_ want to make my discussions public - not so much for
privacy concerns (though those too), but because I'm usually on about
something very specific, and much of the conversation is getting the
other end to grasp what I'm on about, which would be somewhat boring for
others to read - and make me out to be a boring pedant. Which I know I
_am_, but I don't want to stress it on Twitter and frighten off my
followers (of whom I only have 25 after 7 months).
I am nether a tweeter nor a reader of tweets but as a reader of
newspapers which which write about tweets I get the impression that the
louder and swearier and shoutier you are, the more followers will swarm
in your direction.
Nick
I prefer the more honest 1:1 polite conversation via an email, this should
not put anyone’s back up and provides the recipient with an opportunity to
respond by dealing with the matter without duress; should this approach
fail, then, I find ‘escalating’ the issue and putting my point more
forcefully but still politely is usually as far as I need to go. I don’t
tweet or use facebook; my issue is my issue and needs the organisation to
deal with it properly - not as a jerk reaction. I have (years ago) taken
matters much further and involved journalists in the relevant sector when a
large Japanese manufacturer ‘stone-walled’ me over what to me was a very
unfair attitude to goods unsuited to their intended purpose.

Gritish Bas are the only exception to the above rules - they set up and
invited Hive users to air their problems publicly for resolution by other
users and their own Technical Service dept. i have, and still are using
this to resolve initial design shortcomings with the firmware on their
TRV’s.
--
Toodle Pip
Jenny M Benson
2019-09-14 17:22:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Not so easy to keep copies though. (I know Twitter will log such.) Also,
I don't _always_ want to make my discussions public - not so much for
privacy concerns (though those too), but because I'm usually on about
something very specific, and much of the conversation is getting the
other end to grasp what I'm on about,
You've had to contact the Yahoo Help Desk have you?! They are the WORST
I've ever come across for not addressing the matter in hand. Sort of
like ME: I can't log on. YAHOO: Have you tried logging on and then
doing X, Y, Z.

I HATE discussing anything over the 'phone and to-day got a
do-not-reply-to-this email from Lancashire Archives, cofirming my order
and giving me a link to their payment page. The link just throws up an
error message and when I selected "Contact Us" at the bottom of the page
was very annoyed to find links to various pages and a load of links
listed under "Contact Telephone Numbers." Pleased to find, though, that
following that links leads to Online, Email, Post and Telephone. (Not
much joy in pursuing it to-day, I suspect.)
--
Jenny M Benson
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2019-09-14 18:59:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jenny M Benson
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Not so easy to keep copies though. (I know Twitter will log such.)
Also, I don't _always_ want to make my discussions public - not so
much for privacy concerns (though those too), but because I'm usually
on about something very specific, and much of the conversation is
getting the other end to grasp what I'm on about,
You've had to contact the Yahoo Help Desk have you?! They are the
WORST I've ever come across for not addressing the matter in hand. Sort
of like ME: I can't log on. YAHOO: Have you tried logging on and
then doing X, Y, Z.
No, never had any dealings with Yahoo. But other companies - in
particular energy companies. Nothing _quite_ as simple as the above;
that's the problem, if it's even only _slightly_ more complicated than
that, communication gets difficult.

I've had at least twice "deadlock letters", which are what is needed to
go to the relevant ombudsman. Trouble is, these have always been over
things (often faults with the website) that, to me, are _not_ relevant
to the suggested ombudsman: financial ombudsman, energy ombudsman,
whatever.
Post by Jenny M Benson
I HATE discussing anything over the 'phone and to-day got a
do-not-reply-to-this email from Lancashire Archives, cofirming my order
and giving me a link to their payment page. The link just throws up an
error message and when I selected "Contact Us" at the bottom of the
page was very annoyed to find links to various pages and a load of
links listed under "Contact Telephone Numbers." Pleased to find,
though, that following that links leads to Online, Email, Post and
Telephone. (Not much joy in pursuing it to-day, I suspect.)
Good luck!

I generally send any email using the Bcc: field if I can find two or
more people that seem plausible for the matter: that way, unlike the Cc:
field or the To: field, the recipients _don't_ know who else is getting
it, so can't think "Fred'll deal with this". If I'm really pissed off, I
use http://www.ceoemail.com/ or similar, to Bcc: (still) the CEO.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"The wish of the lazy to allow unsupervised access [to the internet] to their
children should not reduce all adults browsing to the level of suitability for a
five-year-old." Yaman Akdeniz, quoted in Inter//face (The Times, 1999-2-10): p12
Joe Kerr
2019-09-15 17:40:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Not so easy to keep copies though. (I know Twitter will log such.)
Also, I don't _always_ want to make my discussions public - not so
much for privacy concerns (though those too), but because I'm usually
on about something very specific, and much of the conversation is
getting the other end to grasp what I'm on about,
You've had to contact the Yahoo Help Desk have you?!  They are the WORST
I've ever come across for not addressing the matter in hand.  Sort of
like ME:  I can't log on.  YAHOO:  Have you tried logging on and then
doing X, Y, Z.
They must share a call centre with Philips. "My PVR won't turn on."
"Well press x, y , z to achieve doodlyflip." "Won't that wipe the entire
disc?" "Yes." "Well that's not very helpful is it? And how do you
propose I press x, y and z when it won't turn on." "Err ..."
--
Ric
Serena Blanchflower
2019-09-14 11:58:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Not only the time wasted, but I'd far rather be able to keep a record of
the correspondence. (I know you can record 'phone calls, but it's fiddly
- and from time to time someone on a newsgroup says it's illegal. [My
contention is that it isn't, at least if you say you're doing it, and
probably even if you don't. But it's still a faff (sp?).])
The consensus on ulm seemed to be that it's legal so long as at least
one of the participants in the conversation is aware of it. So long as
you know you're recording it, you're fine but if your phone is set up to
record all your calls, you shouldn't lend it to anyone else without
telling them.
--
Best wishes, Serena
Food is an important part of a balanced diet. (Fran Lebowitz)
Nick Odell
2019-09-14 13:56:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Serena Blanchflower
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Not only the time wasted, but I'd far rather be able to keep a record
of the correspondence. (I know you can record 'phone calls, but it's
fiddly - and from time to time someone on a newsgroup says it's
illegal. [My contention is that it isn't, at least if you say you're
doing it, and probably even if you don't. But it's still a faff (sp?).])
The consensus on ulm seemed to be that it's legal so long as at least
one of the participants in the conversation is aware of it.  So long as
you know you're recording it, you're fine but if your phone is set up to
record all your calls, you shouldn't lend it to anyone else without
telling them.
Yes. And the jury is still out, I believe, on whether the company
announcement "All calls may be recorded" is an invitation, a declaration
or both.

Nick
Jenny M Benson
2019-09-13 10:43:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Jenny M Benson
I think I might have ranted hereabouts previously about the claim that
having a Smart Meter will reduce one's fuel bills.
Yesterday I got my first fuel ill from E-on since having a SM
installed.  It is ENORMOUS.  It is the biggest bill I have had for
ages, never mind the fact that this is the quarter when I use least fuel.
They're probably trying to average you over a year. (That still doesn't
mean they can't cock it up.) AFAIK all the energy companies like to do
that. (I asked one of them, if you're going to set a fixed payment, then
can I pay by standing order not DD? But no dice.)
I don't think so. They give "meter readings" for the quarter.
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Jenny M Benson
I tried to read the proper meters to see if they agreed with what E-on
says the SM told them, but all I see is a blank screen with a tiny
keypad under it and no indication of how to see actual usage.
You should have been told by the person who installed it; IIRR you type
in a pin on the keypad (there may be an extra button you have to press
before or after). If he/she didn't, demand the necessary information
from your supplier; if they don't come up with it fairly sharpish, give
them notice you're going to stop the DD, and do so.
Nothing at all was mentioned about the meter. Just a torrent of
information about the Smart Meter which was impossible to take in and
retain in one huge chunk like that, but he did leave an instruction book
- which I have yet to read! I generally ignore the SM except to check
what time it is when Feisty gets me up in the middle of the night (old
dogs, like old ladies, need to pee more often!) and to wonder how on
earth I can have "spent" about £1 every day before I've even got out of
bed. Oh, and to tell at it "YES OF COURSE I'M USING A LOT OF
ELECTRICITY YOU IDIOT - I'VE GOT THE SODDING WASHING MACHINE ON!"

No DD to stop here. They keep trying to persuade me it will be so much
cheaper if I switch to a monthly DD but I prefer to pay the right (?)
amount when the bill comes and am prepared to pay a little bit extra to
do that.
--
Jenny M Benson
Sally Thompson
2019-09-13 10:50:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Jenny M Benson <***@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
<Major Snippage was here>
Post by Jenny M Benson
Nothing at all was mentioned about the meter. Just a torrent of
information about the Smart Meter which was impossible to take in and
retain in one huge chunk like that, but he did leave an instruction book
- which I have yet to read! I generally ignore the SM except to check
what time it is when Feisty gets me up in the middle of the night (old
dogs, like old ladies, need to pee more often!) and to wonder how on
earth I can have "spent" about £1 every day before I've even got out of
bed. Oh, and to tell at it "YES OF COURSE I'M USING A LOT OF
ELECTRICITY YOU IDIOT - I'VE GOT THE SODDING WASHING MACHINE ON!"
It isn't the washing machine that horrifies me, it's the kettle!
--
Sally in Shropshire, UK
Penny
2019-09-13 13:38:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On 13 Sep 2019 10:50:36 GMT, Sally Thompson
Post by Sally Thompson
<Major Snippage was here>
Post by Jenny M Benson
Nothing at all was mentioned about the meter. Just a torrent of
information about the Smart Meter which was impossible to take in and
retain in one huge chunk like that, but he did leave an instruction book
- which I have yet to read! I generally ignore the SM except to check
what time it is when Feisty gets me up in the middle of the night (old
dogs, like old ladies, need to pee more often!) and to wonder how on
earth I can have "spent" about £1 every day before I've even got out of
bed. Oh, and to tell at it "YES OF COURSE I'M USING A LOT OF
ELECTRICITY YOU IDIOT - I'VE GOT THE SODDING WASHING MACHINE ON!"
It isn't the washing machine that horrifies me, it's the kettle!
Before they replaced my meter with one that didn't run backwards on sunny
days - following solar panel installation - it used to amuse me to watch it
running backwards and then ask Ray to switch the kettle on. I like my 3kW
kettle, I hate waiting for kettles to boil and the quicker they do it the
better as far as I'm concerned.

Not sure of the rating of the heaters in washing machine and dishwasher
(both run on sunny days if possible) but it annoys me you no longer get the
chance to plumb them in to the hot water supply as well as the cold.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Mike
2019-09-13 14:06:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Penny
On 13 Sep 2019 10:50:36 GMT, Sally Thompson
Post by Sally Thompson
<Major Snippage was here>
Post by Jenny M Benson
Nothing at all was mentioned about the meter. Just a torrent of
information about the Smart Meter which was impossible to take in and
retain in one huge chunk like that, but he did leave an instruction book
- which I have yet to read! I generally ignore the SM except to check
what time it is when Feisty gets me up in the middle of the night (old
dogs, like old ladies, need to pee more often!) and to wonder how on
earth I can have "spent" about £1 every day before I've even got out of
bed. Oh, and to tell at it "YES OF COURSE I'M USING A LOT OF
ELECTRICITY YOU IDIOT - I'VE GOT THE SODDING WASHING MACHINE ON!"
It isn't the washing machine that horrifies me, it's the kettle!
Before they replaced my meter with one that didn't run backwards on sunny
days - following solar panel installation - it used to amuse me to watch it
running backwards and then ask Ray to switch the kettle on. I like my 3kW
kettle, I hate waiting for kettles to boil and the quicker they do it the
better as far as I'm concerned.
Not sure of the rating of the heaters in washing machine and dishwasher
(both run on sunny days if possible) but it annoys me you no longer get the
chance to plumb them in to the hot water supply as well as the cold.
The excuse we were given for ‘cold-fill’ only was that this enabled the
machine to better control temperatures and avoided any ‘thermal shock’ when
very hot water supplies were employed. (Spherical sperm generating organs
may have been employed in the making of such claims).
--
Toodle Pip
Tony Bryer
2019-09-14 09:39:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Penny
Not sure of the rating of the heaters in washing machine and dishwasher
(both run on sunny days if possible) but it annoys me you no longer get
the chance to plumb them in to the hot water supply as well as the cold.
The excuse we were given for ‘cold-fill’ only was that this enabled the
machine to better control temperatures and avoided any ‘thermal shock’ when
very hot water supplies were employed. (Spherical sperm generating organs
may have been employed in the making of such claims).
The other reason, not without merit in more than a few homes, is that modern
appliances are designed to use a lot less water than hitherto so if they used
hot fill most of the hot water drawn would end up sitting in the dead leg
rather than being used.
--
Tony B, OzRat, Melbourne
Vicky Ayech
2019-09-14 10:18:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sat, 14 Sep 2019 19:39:19 +1000, Tony Bryer
Post by Tony Bryer
Post by Penny
Not sure of the rating of the heaters in washing machine and dishwasher
(both run on sunny days if possible) but it annoys me you no longer get
the chance to plumb them in to the hot water supply as well as the cold.
The excuse we were given for ‘cold-fill’ only was that this enabled the
machine to better control temperatures and avoided any ‘thermal shock’ when
very hot water supplies were employed. (Spherical sperm generating organs
may have been employed in the making of such claims).
The other reason, not without merit in more than a few homes, is that modern
appliances are designed to use a lot less water than hitherto so if they used
hot fill most of the hot water drawn would end up sitting in the dead leg
rather than being used.
We both have jerky wrists and also weak ones now so find modern
kettles too heavy. We have a water heater that heats to 3 different
temperatures and does 3 different amounts just into the mug or cup.
You have to set the correct amount, not leave it on no limit and you
have to put the cup under the spout. :)
Penny
2019-09-14 13:36:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sat, 14 Sep 2019 19:39:19 +1000, Tony Bryer <***@delme.greentram.com>
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Tony Bryer
Post by Mike
Post by Penny
Not sure of the rating of the heaters in washing machine and dishwasher
(both run on sunny days if possible) but it annoys me you no longer get
the chance to plumb them in to the hot water supply as well as the cold.
The excuse we were given for ‘cold-fill’ only was that this enabled the
machine to better control temperatures and avoided any ‘thermal shock’ when
very hot water supplies were employed. (Spherical sperm generating organs
may have been employed in the making of such claims).
The other reason, not without merit in more than a few homes, is that modern
appliances are designed to use a lot less water than hitherto so if they used
hot fill most of the hot water drawn would end up sitting in the dead leg
rather than being used.
I can see the point of that. In my old house the washer (which did have a
hot feed) was a long way, in plumbing terms, from the hot water tank. I
used to run the hot tap until warm water arrived before switching on the
machine. In current house the washer is immediately below the HW tank but I
can't fill from it.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Jenny M Benson
2019-09-13 15:36:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Penny
I like my 3kW
kettle, I hate waiting for kettles to boil and the quicker they do it the
better as far as I'm concerned.
I remember my mother saying that she felt her life ebbing away as she
waited for the microwave to ping.
--
Jenny M Benson
Penny
2019-10-02 13:32:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
This looks like the right thread, even if not the right frayed end of it.

My smart meters were fitted yesterday - not without incident.

I was told to expect the engineer to arrive between 10am and 2pm and he
would then take 2-3 hours to do the work. He would phone me to tell me he
was on his way.

I noticed the internet was not working around noon and, after foolishly
telling my computer to install the update it had been nagging me about NOW,
I realised the phone line was down too. My house is not the easiest to find
so now I was concerned the engineer, having failed to get through on the
phone, had either given up or got lost without directions from me. I
wandered outside just as he was slowly driving past my gate, looking for
house names.

Now I had the problem of a major upgrade on the computer which said it was
20% done - no choice but to switch it off anyway. Does anyone know how I
can persuade it to try again?

The actual work on the two meters took about an hour, during which it
seemed the company network was also down so some parts had to be walked
through over mobile phone.

The phone and internet returned soon afterwards.

Now it's settled down the 'home display' seems to work most of the time -
solid brick internal walls probably don't help. I really must read the
manual properly. With the screen on 'Usage now' and the sun shining, I'm
very happy to see current cost is £0.00 most* of the time - with computer,
radio, 2 fridges and a freezer and various clocks running. I can't work out
if the kW figure is how much I'm generating, how much I'm putting into the
grid or how much I'm using, it fluctuates a lot.

*switch the kettle on and the change is huge but not for long
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
krw
2019-10-02 13:49:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Penny
Now I had the problem of a major upgrade on the computer which said it was
20% done - no choice but to switch it off anyway. Does anyone know how I
can persuade it to try again?
Assuming Win 10 go to Update and Security in the settings and you will
find something to click (Check for Updates) which will make it start again.
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
Penny
2019-10-03 08:36:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 2 Oct 2019 14:49:05 +0100, krw <***@whitnet.uk> scrawled in the
dust...
Post by krw
Post by Penny
Now I had the problem of a major upgrade on the computer which said it was
20% done - no choice but to switch it off anyway. Does anyone know how I
can persuade it to try again?
Assuming Win 10 go to Update and Security in the settings and you will
find something to click (Check for Updates) which will make it start again.
Thanks, it nagged me again around bedtime so I set it off again and went to
bed. It seems to have succeeded.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
krw
2019-10-03 09:29:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Penny
dust...
Post by krw
Post by Penny
Now I had the problem of a major upgrade on the computer which said it was
20% done - no choice but to switch it off anyway. Does anyone know how I
can persuade it to try again?
Assuming Win 10 go to Update and Security in the settings and you will
find something to click (Check for Updates) which will make it start again.
Thanks, it nagged me again around bedtime so I set it off again and went to
bed. It seems to have succeeded.
I have to say that most of the time dear old Windows looks after itself
pretty well these days. This PC is nearly 7 years old and is on
continuously so being safety conscious I want to replace the main
machine but move the SSD (which has been upgraded since original
purchase) into the new carcase which will be equipped with new
motherboard and so on. Then in a couple of years I will replace the
SSD. But I cannot get a straight answer on the licence arrangements.

Then when I was looking at it yesterday I was in a Microsoft hell where
it decided I needed a new logon account and as part of creating that
account insisted I needed a pin (no I don't) so I pressed cancel which
did nothing of the sort and it told me to create a pin (and would not
accept 1234 or 9876) and so I pressed cancel again and we went around
the cycle again.

So whilst Microsoft might have got Windows working at the tenth plus
upgrades attempt it is still not behaving sensibly.

I did warn you about rants.
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2019-10-03 11:05:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
In message <qn4f11$jd3$***@gioia.aioe.org>, krw <***@whitnet.uk> writes:
[]
Post by krw
I have to say that most of the time dear old Windows looks after itself
pretty well these days. This PC is nearly 7 years old and is on
continuously so being safety conscious I want to replace the main
machine but move the SSD (which has been upgraded since original
purchase) into the new carcase which will be equipped with new
motherboard and so on. Then in a couple of years I will replace the
SSD. But I cannot get a straight answer on the licence arrangements.
If you mean the _Windows_ licence, then it is tied to the hardware of
the PC, but you _can_ change the main drive. You can't just transfer it
from one machine to another, though; you need to image the Windows drive
C: in any machine you're going to change the drive on, and transfer that
image to the replacement drive. (I always partition my drive, so C: is
for Windows and installed software, and D: is for all data; you don't
have to do this, it just makes imaging quicker so you're more likely to
do it more often. [You should still back up the data too: if you're just
going to image the whole drive there's less need to partition; I just
prefer a simpler method for backing up my _data_.] FWIW 100G should be
more than enough even for Windows 10 plus software [50G more than enough
for XP plus software].)

You _can_ reinstall from scratch re-using the licence keys (though I'm
not sure which keys you use), but you need a Windows disc which you
probably don't have, and it's a much more tedious process - and that's
before you install all your software, as well as tweak Windows itself to
how you like it; imaging then restoring from the image is much quicker
and less complicated, and at the end of it you have a system - with all
your software - set up exactly how you had it when you made the image
(other than with a different drive). I think I'd even use imaging for a
brand new PC, to change its drive: yes, I'm sure I would.

So it would go like this: assuming you're going to put a conventional
drive in the old PC (so you can use as a reserve PC or so you can give
it away): image old PC's drive C: and any hidden partitions onto an
external drive. Take out SSD, fit conventional drive, restore from image
to conventional drive. Make sure it boots. Then on new PC: repeat but in
reverse: image C: and any hidden partitions onto external drive; take
out drive it came with; fit SSD; restore from image to SSD; check it
boots. If you're going to _use_ the conventional drive that comes with
the new PC to put into the old PC, make sure your external drive is big
enough to store the image from both machines, obviously, as you'll have
to do things in a slightly different order. (It doesn't have to be as
big as both _drives_, only the _used_ space on them. [Or even slightly
smaller if you use the imaging software's compression option.])

I use Macrium for my imaging - always booting from the CD it lets you
make, rather than making images from inside a running Windows. (I feel
happier that way; also, using the CD even when _making_ images [which I
do from time to time as backup] checks that the CD itself hasn't gone
bad, which I _don't_ want to discover just when I actually _need_ it,
such as when I want to restore an image onto a new drive because the old
one has failed.) Other imaging software is available - Acronis being the
main other one. Both Acronis and Macrium (version 7 I think it is now)
have free versions, which are quite adequate for the home user. (Note
that Macrium _5_ won't image the latest Windows 10 [it did earlier
versions of W10]; that is only relevant to anyone who made their CD
under Macrium 5 and has been using it ever since, like me.)

Macrium can handle restoring an image to a larger or smaller drive
(provided it's big enough for the actual space needed, of course); if
restoring to a larger, I usually don't take advantage of that ability
but enlarge after the restore, as I'm happier doing one thing at a time.
I suspect Acronis and the others can do so too, I've just never used any
Post by krw
Then when I was looking at it yesterday I was in a Microsoft hell where
it decided I needed a new logon account and as part of creating that
account insisted I needed a pin (no I don't) so I pressed cancel which
did nothing of the sort and it told me to create a pin (and would not
accept 1234 or 9876) and so I pressed cancel again and we went around
the cycle again.
So whilst Microsoft might have got Windows working at the tenth plus
upgrades attempt it is still not behaving sensibly.
There _are_ utilities to control the W10 upgrades if you want: one is at
https://www.sordum.org/9470/windows-update-blocker-v1-5/ (I haven't
tried it, being still on 7).
Post by krw
I did warn you about rants.
That wasn't really a rant - justified comment, IMO!
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

... social media's tendency to knock on front doors and run away.
Andrew Collins, RT 2017/8/5-11
krw
2019-10-03 11:43:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
If you mean the _Windows_ licence, then it is tied to the hardware of
the PC, but you _can_ change the main drive. You can't just transfer it
from one machine to another, though; you need to image the Windows drive
C: in any machine you're going to change the drive on, and transfer that
image to the replacement drive.
My online researches imply that the licence is no longer tied to the
hardware - this used to apply but has been changed. I will now read the
rest of your post.
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2019-10-03 12:32:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by krw
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
If you mean the _Windows_ licence, then it is tied to the hardware of
the PC, but you _can_ change the main drive. You can't just transfer
it from one machine to another, though; you need to image the Windows
drive C: in any machine you're going to change the drive on, and
transfer that image to the replacement drive.
My online researches imply that the licence is no longer tied to the
hardware - this used to apply but has been changed. I will now read
the rest of your post.
AIUI, the sort of licence you get with the Windows that's preinstalled
on a machine, or the _cheapest_ kind you can buy if you buy Windows on a
CD ("OEM" - "original equipment manufacturer" - or "System Builder") got
tied to the first machine you installed it on, and registered (at
Microsoft) a hash of the serial numbers of the various parts of the
machine; you were allowed to change a certain amount of the hardware
(upgrade the memory, replace the hard disc), for upgrades and repairs,
following an algorithm the details of which were deliberately kept
vague. If you tried to "activate" a copy that had already been
activated, and the equipment it was being installed on was _too_
different, it wouldn't activate - going through various stages, from
activating fine, to activating but you had to type in a long string of
characters you got off a 'phone, to having to actually speak to someone
at Microsoft to explain you'd had to change the motherboard. [I believe
there's also a 120 day expiry - not legal, but _in practice_.] The most
expensive version of Windows - "Retail" - _was_ transferrable between
machines, i. e. you could _uninstall_ it from one and install it on
another. (I _presume_ the uninstall had to be done with the machine
connected to the internet.) Last time I looked, which was many years
ago, the "Retail" version of Windows cost similar to the cost of a
complete new PC (with Windows already on it).

You _may_ be right that things have changed - though I can't see they
could change _much_ and still protect Microsoft's interests. (We may all
hate Microsoft, but they're not a charity.) I suppose it _could_ be that
the situation has got _so_ far along the line of "any new PC will have
Windows on so they've had their pound of flesh [from the manufacturers]
anyway", and they're now not fussed about the small number of people
building/transferring; I don't know. I'd be interested in any links you
have about such a change as you suggest might have happened.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Veni, Vidi, VO5 (I came, I saw, I washed my hair) - Mik from S+AS Limited
(***@saslimited.demon.co.uk), 1998
krw
2019-10-03 14:11:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
You _may_ be right that things have changed - though I can't see they
could change _much_ and still protect Microsoft's interests. (We may all
hate Microsoft, but they're not a charity.) I suppose it _could_ be that
the situation has got _so_ far along the line of "any new PC will have
Windows on so they've had their pound of flesh [from the manufacturers]
anyway", and they're now not fussed about the small number of people
building/transferring; I don't know. I'd be interested in any links you
have about such a change as you suggest might have happened.
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/20530/windows-10-reactivating-after-hardware-change

certainly implies to my reading that I am allowed to reactivate a
digital licence (or license if you insist) after a hardware change.
Advice elsewhere also seems to require de-activation elsewhere so how I
do this when I am moving the SSD with Win 10 between machines is unclear!
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2019-10-03 15:03:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by krw
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
You _may_ be right that things have changed - though I can't see they
could change _much_ and still protect Microsoft's interests. (We may
all hate Microsoft, but they're not a charity.) I suppose it _could_
be that the situation has got _so_ far along the line of "any new PC
will have Windows on so they've had their pound of flesh [from the
manufacturers] anyway", and they're now not fussed about the small
number of people building/transferring; I don't know. I'd be
interested in any links you have about such a change as you suggest
might have happened.
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/20530/windows-10-reactivating-a
fter-hardware-change
certainly implies to my reading that I am allowed to reactivate a
digital licence (or license if you insist) after a hardware change.
"When installing Windows 10, the digital license associates itself with
your device's hardware. If you make significant hardware changes on your
device, such as replacing your motherboard, Windows will no longer find
a license that matches your device, and you’ll need to reactivate
Windows to get it up and running." So the normal position is that it
_is_ linked to the hardware, but there's a way to get round it - which
_does_ indeed link it to your "Microsoft account."
Post by krw
Advice elsewhere also seems to require de-activation elsewhere so how I
do this when I am moving the SSD with Win 10 between machines is unclear!
Well, there's a section in that page "Prepare your Windows 10 device for
a hardware change"; that implies you have to follow that _before_ doing
the change. The first step is "Link your Windows 10 digital license to
your Microsoft account." (Which doesn't help if the reason for the
change is that something has failed! I guess everybody should do that
stage _now_, in case something _does_ fail in the future.)

I suspect even following that procedure won't let you install Windows on
a _completely_ different set of hardware, though. (Or, for W10 at least,
maybe it will, but if you ever used _both_ machines online, even not at
the same time, it might deactivate one of them.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

No, I haven't changed my mind - I'm perfectly happy with the one I have, thank
you.
Mike
2019-10-03 15:36:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
J. P. Gilliver (John) <***@255soft.uk> wrote:
hing _does_ fail in the future.)
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I suspect even following that procedure won't let you install Windows on
a _completely_ different set of hardware, though. (Or, for W10 at least,
maybe it will, but if you ever used _both_ machines online, even not at
the same time, it might deactivate one of them.)
‘Exterminate - exterminate!’
--
Toodle Pip
krw
2019-10-03 18:15:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I suspect even following that procedure won't let you install Windows on
a _completely_ different set of hardware, though. (Or, for W10 at least,
maybe it will, but if you ever used _both_ machines online, even not at
the same time, it might deactivate one of them.)
Once the old machine has had the SSD removed I might re-instate the old
SSD and install this linux and see what happens.
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
Joe Kerr
2019-10-03 19:50:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I suspect even following that procedure won't let you install Windows on
a _completely_ different set of hardware, though. (Or, for W10 at least,
maybe it will, but if you ever used _both_ machines online, even not at
the same time, it might deactivate one of them.)
I was reading something only a few days ago that it is possible (and
permissible) to install a registered copy of Windows on a USB device so
that you have a portable version usable on any machine as well as the
original installed version. There is a now discontinued variant of this
and a newer technique that I think doesn't work on professional
versions. Unfortunately I can't remember much more than that at the
moment and the machine I used is now 100 miles away so I can't check any
open windows, bookmarks or browser history. I think that there is some
software called Wintousb that helps in the process, but I may be wrong.
--
Ric
krw
2019-10-03 11:44:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
You _can_ reinstall from scratch re-using the licence keys
I don't have a licence key - Microsoft says I have a digital licence
tied to my Microsoft account. This is why I think it is no longer tied
to the hardware.

I will now read the rest of your post.
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2019-10-03 12:45:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by krw
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
You _can_ reinstall from scratch re-using the licence keys
I don't have a licence key - Microsoft says I have a digital licence
tied to my Microsoft account. This is why I think it is no longer tied
to the hardware.
I will now read the rest of your post.
If that's for a machine upgraded from 7 (or 8.1) to 10 with the free
upgrade, I think that's a special case: it's a "digital entitlement",
which _is_ actually linked to the hardware of the specific machine. You
can reinstall 10 _on that machine_ should you need to (hard disc dies
for example), and it will activate without needing a key.

Incidentally, AIUI, you can still get that entitlement on machines with
a valid 7 or 8.1 licence, up to the end of 7 support (sometime in
January): to do so, you upgrade it to 10, and check that it is
activated. You can put it back to 7; the ability to put it to 10 _and
activate_ remains into the future. The upgrade to 10 is _still_ free,
but considerably more complicated than it was a couple of years ago
(when you had to take steps _not_ to get it!); for details of how, see
back posts in alt.windows7.general by Paul. It's the _act_ of upgrading
to 10 - even if you put it back to 7 immediately - that "registers the
entitlement" on the server. No, I don't know why they do it that way
either, other than guessing they hope you'll not bother to revert.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Veni, Vidi, VO5 (I came, I saw, I washed my hair) - Mik from S+AS Limited
(***@saslimited.demon.co.uk), 1998
krw
2019-10-03 11:47:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I use Macrium for my imaging
Probably as a result of mentions hereabouts (thank you umra) I use
Macrium for my regular backups (only tested restore once, probably
should do so again) and used it I think when I upgraded the SSD on the
current PC. So I am familiar with some of its possibilities and would
use it if needed on the planned change.

I am trying to help Britters with all the posts. Sorry if they are
boring other people!
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
BrritSki
2019-10-03 12:32:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by krw
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I use Macrium for my imaging
Probably as a result of mentions hereabouts (thank you umra) I use
Macrium for my regular backups (only tested restore once, probably
should do so again) and used it I think when I upgraded the SSD on the
current PC.  So I am familiar with some of its possibilities and would
use it if needed on the planned change.
I am trying to help Britters with all the posts.  Sorry if they are
boring other people!
Not at all, I've been following with interest and learned about Macrium
which I've not come across before.

As for smart meters, we don;t have one, don't want one and Bulb have not
so far suggested one. We do have however Solaredge linked to our Solar
PV array and that tells us a lot about our electrickery usage and
generation in nice graphic form as well as numeric summaries (see below)
and access to reports that give you more detail than you could ever want.

System Production:3.43 kWh
40% 60%
Self-consumption: Export:
1.36 kWh 2.07 kWh

Consumption:4.53 kWh
30% 70%
Self-consumption: Import:
1.36 kWh 3.16 kWh

So we've used about 1 kWh today which considering I had the oven on for
an hour (pommes boulangere and sausages m'lud) and it's a fairly grey
day here is not too bad.
Jenny M Benson
2019-10-03 12:45:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by BrritSki
pommes boulangere
Is that a Brittskiism or an "official" term? I like it and intend to
adopt it - if I can remember to do so. I find my intentions and my
memory drifting further and further apart these days:-(
--
Jenny M Benson
http://jennygenes.blogspot.co.uk/
BrritSki
2019-10-03 12:59:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jenny M Benson
Post by BrritSki
pommes boulangere
Is that a Brittskiism or an "official" term?
Not at all, official Delia recipe amongst others
<https://www.deliaonline.com/recipes/main-ingredient/potatoes/potatoes-boulangeres-with-rosemary>

Unless of course you're being sniffy about the absence of accents ;)
Jenny M Benson
2019-10-03 14:23:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by BrritSki
Post by Jenny M Benson
Post by BrritSki
pommes boulangere
Is that a Brittskiism or an "official" term?
Not at all, official Delia recipe amongst others
<https://www.deliaonline.com/recipes/main-ingredient/potatoes/potatoes-boulangeres-with-rosemary>
Unless of course you're being sniffy about the absence of accents ;)
Oh, I'm quite disappointed. Thought it was a nice Brritters-speak for
baked spuds.
--
Jenny M Benson
http://jennygenes.blogspot.co.uk/
Mike Ruddock
2019-10-05 07:02:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by BrritSki
Post by Jenny M Benson
Post by BrritSki
pommes boulangere
Is that a Brittskiism or an "official" term?
Not at all, official Delia recipe amongst others
<https://www.deliaonline.com/recipes/main-ingredient/potatoes/potatoes-boulangeres-with-rosemary>
Unless of course you're being sniffy about the absence of accents ;)
Oh, I'm quite disappointed.  Thought it was a nice Brritters-speak for
baked spuds.
Me too.

Mike Ruddock
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2019-10-02 16:25:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
In message <***@4ax.com>, Penny
<***@labyrinth.freeuk.com> writes:
[]
Post by Penny
Now I had the problem of a major upgrade on the computer which said it was
20% done - no choice but to switch it off anyway. Does anyone know how I
can persuade it to try again?
krw has addressed that. (AIUI if it's Windows 10, it'd do so anyway
fairly soon.)
[]
Post by Penny
Now it's settled down the 'home display' seems to work most of the time -
solid brick internal walls probably don't help. I really must read the
If you temporarily move it closer to the actual meter and it works
better, that'd vindicate your suspicion about the walls.
Post by Penny
manual properly. With the screen on 'Usage now' and the sun shining, I'm
very happy to see current cost is £0.00 most* of the time - with computer,
radio, 2 fridges and a freezer and various clocks running. I can't work out
Radio and clocks will use minimal; computer if a laptop not much.
Coolers you should be able to hear when they're running.
Post by Penny
if the kW figure is how much I'm generating, how much I'm putting into the
grid or how much I'm using, it fluctuates a lot.
*switch the kettle on and the change is huge but not for long
Kettle's about the highest-consumption plug-in device most people have
(but as you say not on for long).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Who were your favourite TV stars or shows when you were a child? Sadly they've
all been arrested ... Ian Hislop, in Radio Times 28 September-4 October 2013
Fenny
2019-09-13 17:07:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On 13 Sep 2019 10:50:36 GMT, Sally Thompson
Post by Sally Thompson
It isn't the washing machine that horrifies me, it's the kettle!
I very rarely use my kettle these days. I think I boiled it once last
week - which is once more than I usually boil it in a week.
--
Fenny
John Ashby
2019-09-13 18:06:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Penny
On 13 Sep 2019 10:50:36 GMT, Sally Thompson
Post by Sally Thompson
It isn't the washing machine that horrifies me, it's the kettle!
I very rarely use my kettle these days. I think I boiled it once last
week - which is once more than I usually boil it in a week.
Time saving tip: Boil a full kettle on a Sunday evening and you'll have
boiled water for the rest of the week.

john
John Ashby
2019-09-13 18:08:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by John Ashby
Post by Penny
On 13 Sep 2019 10:50:36 GMT, Sally Thompson
Post by Sally Thompson
It isn't the washing machine that horrifies me, it's the kettle!
I very rarely use my kettle these days. I think I boiled it once last
week - which is once more than I usually boil it in a week.
Time saving tip: Boil a full kettle on a Sunday evening and you'll have
boiled water for the rest of the week.
john
Oh, and if you boil more than you need, you can freeze it for later.

john
Mike
2019-09-13 18:19:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by John Ashby
Post by John Ashby
Post by Penny
On 13 Sep 2019 10:50:36 GMT, Sally Thompson
Post by Sally Thompson
It isn't the washing machine that horrifies me, it's the kettle!
I very rarely use my kettle these days. I think I boiled it once last
week - which is once more than I usually boil it in a week.
Time saving tip: Boil a full kettle on a Sunday evening and you'll have
boiled water for the rest of the week.
john
Oh, and if you boil more than you need, you can freeze it for later.
john
Elementary my dear John.
--
Toodle Pip
Mike
2019-09-13 18:18:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by John Ashby
Post by Penny
On 13 Sep 2019 10:50:36 GMT, Sally Thompson
Post by Sally Thompson
It isn't the washing machine that horrifies me, it's the kettle!
I very rarely use my kettle these days. I think I boiled it once last
week - which is once more than I usually boil it in a week.
Time saving tip: Boil a full kettle on a Sunday evening and you'll have
boiled water for the rest of the week.
john
YASpikeMilliganAICM£5
--
Toodle Pip
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2019-09-13 18:03:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sally Thompson
<Major Snippage was here>
[]
Post by Sally Thompson
Post by Jenny M Benson
bed. Oh, and to tell at it "YES OF COURSE I'M USING A LOT OF
ELECTRICITY YOU IDIOT - I'VE GOT THE SODDING WASHING MACHINE ON!"
It isn't the washing machine that horrifies me, it's the kettle!
I've always known kettles use near the maximum available through a 13A
fuse (around 3 kilowatts, though of late there's been a tendency to make
2200 watt kettles - check when buying); you don't usually use it for
long, though. And the modern (not necessarily expensive; mine was IIRR
6.99 from Argos, and I'm very happy with it!) ones have the element
stuck below a flat plate, so can be run with very little water in. (And
- so far - don't seem to fur up nearly as much.)

3 kW for 5 minutes is 3/12=¼ of a unit - few pence. Over a cycle, the
washing machine probably uses more.

Archers time!
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"When _I_ saw him, he was dead." "uh, he looked exactly the same when he was
alive, except he was vertical." (The Trouble with Harry)
Chris J Dixon
2019-09-14 08:43:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I've always known kettles use near the maximum available through a 13A
fuse (around 3 kilowatts, though of late there's been a tendency to make
2200 watt kettles - check when buying); you don't usually use it for
long, though. And the modern (not necessarily expensive; mine was IIRR
6.99 from Argos, and I'm very happy with it!) ones have the element
stuck below a flat plate, so can be run with very little water in. (And
- so far - don't seem to fur up nearly as much.)
3 kW for 5 minutes is 3/12=¼ of a unit - few pence. Over a cycle, the
washing machine probably uses more.
Indeed so.

I have recently bought this bit of kit:

<https://shop.openenergymonitor.com/emonpi-solar-pv-bundle/>

and really like the displays I can see in my browser. It will
even let me select a particular time period to isolate a load of
interest. It tells me that during the time I boiled a kettle
part-full this morning it (plus any base load) took 0.18 kWh, of
which 0.08 kWh was from solar.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham
'48/33 M B+ G++ A L(-) I S-- CH0(--)(p) Ar- T+ H0 ?Q
***@cdixon.me.uk @ChrisJDixon1
Plant amazing Acers.
Mike
2019-09-13 13:05:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jenny M Benson
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Jenny M Benson
I think I might have ranted hereabouts previously about the claim that
having a Smart Meter will reduce one's fuel bills.
Yesterday I got my first fuel ill from E-on since having a SM
installed.  It is ENORMOUS.  It is the biggest bill I have had for
ages, never mind the fact that this is the quarter when I use least fuel.
They're probably trying to average you over a year. (That still doesn't
mean they can't cock it up.) AFAIK all the energy companies like to do
that. (I asked one of them, if you're going to set a fixed payment, then
can I pay by standing order not DD? But no dice.)
I don't think so. They give "meter readings" for the quarter.
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Jenny M Benson
I tried to read the proper meters to see if they agreed with what E-on
says the SM told them, but all I see is a blank screen with a tiny
keypad under it and no indication of how to see actual usage.
You should have been told by the person who installed it; IIRR you type
in a pin on the keypad (there may be an extra button you have to press
before or after). If he/she didn't, demand the necessary information
from your supplier; if they don't come up with it fairly sharpish, give
them notice you're going to stop the DD, and do so.
Nothing at all was mentioned about the meter. Just a torrent of
information about the Smart Meter which was impossible to take in and
retain in one huge chunk like that, but he did leave an instruction book
- which I have yet to read! I generally ignore the SM except to check
what time it is when Feisty gets me up in the middle of the night (old
dogs, like old ladies, need to pee more often!) and to wonder how on
earth I can have "spent" about £1 every day before I've even got out of
bed. Oh, and to tell at it "YES OF COURSE I'M USING A LOT OF
ELECTRICITY YOU IDIOT - I'VE GOT THE SODDING WASHING MACHINE ON!"
No DD to stop here. They keep trying to persuade me it will be so much
cheaper if I switch to a monthly DD but I prefer to pay the right (?)
amount when the bill comes and am prepared to pay a little bit extra to
do that.
The ‘standing charge’ for both gas and electricity comes to a fair part of
a pound a day; i.e. you don’t need to actually use any energy before the
expense starts to mount each day/week/month or quarter.
--
Toodle Pip
Penny
2019-10-02 19:01:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 12 Sep 2019 10:39:12 +0100, Jenny M Benson <***@hotmail.co.uk>
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Jenny M Benson
I think I might have ranted hereabouts previously about the claim that
having a Smart Meter will reduce one's fuel bills.
Yesterday I got my first fuel ill from E-on since having a SM installed.
It is ENORMOUS. It is the biggest bill I have had for ages, never
mind the fact that this is the quarter when I use least fuel.
It now occurs to me, I should have photographed the meters the day they
were swapped out, just in case...
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Vicky Ayech
2019-10-02 20:37:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Jenny M Benson
I think I might have ranted hereabouts previously about the claim that
having a Smart Meter will reduce one's fuel bills.
Yesterday I got my first fuel ill from E-on since having a SM installed.
It is ENORMOUS. It is the biggest bill I have had for ages, never
mind the fact that this is the quarter when I use least fuel.
It now occurs to me, I should have photographed the meters the day they
were swapped out, just in case...
If we ever get the nuggering smart meters I have been requesting for a
couple of years from this and previous suppliers, that is very useful
advice, thanks. Photograph the old and new. We do send photos each
time they get it wrong, but i have to say this month, although i am on
a list to get themeters read every quarter and they were last month,
we did read and send readings before the bill was due and it was right
for the very first time!
krw
2019-10-03 09:30:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Jenny M Benson
I think I might have ranted hereabouts previously about the claim that
having a Smart Meter will reduce one's fuel bills.
Yesterday I got my first fuel ill from E-on since having a SM installed.
It is ENORMOUS. It is the biggest bill I have had for ages, never
mind the fact that this is the quarter when I use least fuel.
It now occurs to me, I should have photographed the meters the day they
were swapped out, just in case...
If we ever get the nuggering smart meters I have been requesting for a
couple of years from this and previous suppliers, that is very useful
advice, thanks. Photograph the old and new. We do send photos each
time they get it wrong, but i have to say this month, although i am on
a list to get themeters read every quarter and they were last month,
we did read and send readings before the bill was due and it was right
for the very first time!
Apparently I have now found that when I signed up to my new supplier I
agreed to have smart meters fitted - it was hidden in the very small
print. They keep contacting me and I keep ignoring them. Any guesses
who will win this battle?
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
Vicky Ayech
2019-10-03 10:46:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by krw
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Jenny M Benson
I think I might have ranted hereabouts previously about the claim that
having a Smart Meter will reduce one's fuel bills.
Yesterday I got my first fuel ill from E-on since having a SM installed.
It is ENORMOUS. It is the biggest bill I have had for ages, never
mind the fact that this is the quarter when I use least fuel.
It now occurs to me, I should have photographed the meters the day they
were swapped out, just in case...
If we ever get the nuggering smart meters I have been requesting for a
couple of years from this and previous suppliers, that is very useful
advice, thanks. Photograph the old and new. We do send photos each
time they get it wrong, but i have to say this month, although i am on
a list to get themeters read every quarter and they were last month,
we did read and send readings before the bill was due and it was right
for the very first time!
Apparently I have now found that when I signed up to my new supplier I
agreed to have smart meters fitted - it was hidden in the very small
print. They keep contacting me and I keep ignoring them. Any guesses
who will win this battle?
SULK!
You don't want one and I keep asking for one so you get one???
It's not FAIR!
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2019-10-03 11:12:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
In message <qn4f3n$jd3$***@gioia.aioe.org>, krw <***@whitnet.uk> writes:
[]
Post by krw
Apparently I have now found that when I signed up to my new supplier I
agreed to have smart meters fitted - it was hidden in the very small
print. They keep contacting me and I keep ignoring them. Any guesses
who will win this battle?
I presume they will, as they have the power to cut you off. Though if
the main switch/gas tap is inside your home, that's more problematical.

One thing to note about the smart meters: I am pretty sure they can cut
you off remotely. They may assure you otherwise, but ask: if I wanted to
change to a prepayment meter, how would I go about it? If the answer is
to the effect that you just ask them to and they will do it remotely,
then yes, _technically_, they can indeed cut you off remotely. They may
_legally_ not be able to, but in the event of a dispute ... it's similar
to the Direct Debit dispute matter, they're in the strong position.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

A. Top-posters.
Q. What's the most irritating thing on Usenet?
krw
2019-10-03 11:54:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I presume they will, as they have the power to cut you off. Though if
the main switch/gas tap is inside your home, that's more problematical.
They don't know where the meters are as they rang up saying a man was
coming to read them and could he be allowed in. They have been in
external boxes for nearly 30 years and "they" were told about it at the
time.
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
One thing to note about the smart meters: I am pretty sure they can cut
you off remotely.
I am almost certain they can providing they can link to the external
signal. When we run out power they can shut down individual homes
remotely I would guess like the power outages in the 70's I remember well.
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
Serena Blanchflower
2019-10-03 18:19:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by krw
Apparently I have now found that when I signed up to my new supplier I
agreed to have smart meters fitted - it was hidden in the very small
print.  They keep contacting me and I keep ignoring them.  Any guesses
who will win this battle?
My guess is that they will. Probably by transferring you to a
different, and far more expensive, tariff which is open to people with
dumb meters...
--
Best wishes, Serena
I dropped out of communism class because of lousy Marx.
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