Discussion:
OT rant: Win10 update
(too old to reply)
Sid Nuncius
2018-05-25 07:30:08 UTC
Permalink
My idea of a really good Windows update is one which leaves everything
the way I recognise it and doesn't nugger anything up too badly. I
thought I'd got away with the latest bout, but I've discovered that my
hitherto perfectly serviceable 2002 version of Excel won't work at all
on some sheets, including those on which I keep all my accounts.

I've installed LibreOffice (via Ninite, of course - thank you, umra!)
and that seems to be fine, so I'll manage OK, but I am cross, and not a
little shaken after a bad few hours. Do umrats find Calc spreadsheets a
good alternative to Excel, btw? And if I use it, can Excel open
spreadsheets from Calc if I ever go back to it?

Er...that's it. I just needed to tell a few pals. I'll be OK once I've
had my breakfast.
--
Sid (Make sure Matron is away when you reply)
the Omrud
2018-05-25 07:58:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sid Nuncius
My idea of a really good Windows update is one which leaves everything
the way I recognise it and doesn't nugger anything up too badly.  I
thought I'd got away with the latest bout, but I've discovered that my
hitherto perfectly serviceable 2002 version of Excel won't work at all
on some sheets, including those on which I keep all my accounts.
I've installed LibreOffice (via Ninite, of course - thank you, umra!)
and that seems to be fine, so I'll manage OK, but I am cross, and not a
little shaken after a bad few hours.  Do umrats find Calc spreadsheets a
good alternative to Excel, btw?  And if I use it, can Excel open
spreadsheets from Calc if I ever go back to it?
Er...that's it.  I just needed to tell a few pals.  I'll be OK once I've
had my breakfast.
I don't use LibreOffice (I have free MS licences from my one-time
employment), but Calc can surely save spreadsheets as CSV files. These
are pure text and can be read by Excel. Problems might happen with
embedded stuff such as macros and other code. The actual sheet with its
formulas will be fine.

At some point Office switched its native data files to xml, which means
they are stored as text, albeit very complicated text. I think it
happened when they added the x to the file name suffix, e.g. docx.
Those files are very much more interchangeable. You can check by
opening an Excel with Notepad. If it's text, even though it makes
little sense, then it will be OK.
--
David

---
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Nick Leverton
2018-05-25 08:24:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by the Omrud
Post by Sid Nuncius
My idea of a really good Windows update is one which leaves everything
the way I recognise it and doesn't nugger anything up too badly.  I
thought I'd got away with the latest bout, but I've discovered that my
hitherto perfectly serviceable 2002 version of Excel won't work at all
on some sheets, including those on which I keep all my accounts.
I've installed LibreOffice (via Ninite, of course - thank you, umra!)
and that seems to be fine, so I'll manage OK, but I am cross, and not a
little shaken after a bad few hours.  Do umrats find Calc spreadsheets a
good alternative to Excel, btw?  And if I use it, can Excel open
spreadsheets from Calc if I ever go back to it?
Er...that's it.  I just needed to tell a few pals.  I'll be OK once I've
had my breakfast.
I don't use LibreOffice (I have free MS licences from my one-time
employment), but Calc can surely save spreadsheets as CSV files. These
are pure text and can be read by Excel. Problems might happen with
embedded stuff such as macros and other code. The actual sheet with its
formulas will be fine.
A note of caution here - CSV files don't include the formulae, only the
final values, so they're not suitable for converting between spreadsheet
formats.

However IME Excel and Calc seem pretty functionally interchangeable with
spreadsheet files at the day to day formula level, and some macros at
least. Though I've never tried it with charts, nor with a spreadsheet
containing VB or whatever MS are calling their embedded application
programming language this year. But yes Sid, I'd expect Calc to have
pretty good Excel compatibility these days.

Nick
--
"The Internet, a sort of ersatz counterfeit of real life"
-- Janet Street-Porter, BBC2, 19th March 1996
Sid Nuncius
2018-05-25 09:05:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nick Leverton
Post by the Omrud
Post by Sid Nuncius
My idea of a really good Windows update is one which leaves everything
the way I recognise it and doesn't nugger anything up too badly.  I
thought I'd got away with the latest bout, but I've discovered that my
hitherto perfectly serviceable 2002 version of Excel won't work at all
on some sheets, including those on which I keep all my accounts.
I've installed LibreOffice (via Ninite, of course - thank you, umra!)
and that seems to be fine, so I'll manage OK, but I am cross, and not a
little shaken after a bad few hours.  Do umrats find Calc spreadsheets a
good alternative to Excel, btw?  And if I use it, can Excel open
spreadsheets from Calc if I ever go back to it?
Er...that's it.  I just needed to tell a few pals.  I'll be OK once I've
had my breakfast.
I don't use LibreOffice (I have free MS licences from my one-time
employment), but Calc can surely save spreadsheets as CSV files. These
are pure text and can be read by Excel. Problems might happen with
embedded stuff such as macros and other code. The actual sheet with its
formulas will be fine.
A note of caution here - CSV files don't include the formulae, only the
final values, so they're not suitable for converting between spreadsheet
formats.
However IME Excel and Calc seem pretty functionally interchangeable with
spreadsheet files at the day to day formula level, and some macros at
least. Though I've never tried it with charts, nor with a spreadsheet
containing VB or whatever MS are calling their embedded application
programming language this year. But yes Sid, I'd expect Calc to have
pretty good Excel compatibility these days.
Many thanks both, and to Serena. All advice safely saved for future
reference.
--
Sid (Make sure Matron is away when you reply)
Kate B
2018-05-25 09:14:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nick Leverton
Post by the Omrud
Post by Sid Nuncius
My idea of a really good Windows update is one which leaves everything
the way I recognise it and doesn't nugger anything up too badly.  I
thought I'd got away with the latest bout, but I've discovered that my
hitherto perfectly serviceable 2002 version of Excel won't work at all
on some sheets, including those on which I keep all my accounts.
I've installed LibreOffice (via Ninite, of course - thank you, umra!)
and that seems to be fine, so I'll manage OK, but I am cross, and not a
little shaken after a bad few hours.  Do umrats find Calc spreadsheets a
good alternative to Excel, btw?  And if I use it, can Excel open
spreadsheets from Calc if I ever go back to it?
Er...that's it.  I just needed to tell a few pals.  I'll be OK once I've
had my breakfast.
I don't use LibreOffice (I have free MS licences from my one-time
employment), but Calc can surely save spreadsheets as CSV files.  These
are pure text and can be read by Excel.  Problems might happen with
embedded stuff such as macros and other code.  The actual sheet with its
formulas will be fine.
A note of caution here - CSV files don't include the formulae, only the
final values, so they're not suitable for converting between spreadsheet
formats.
However IME Excel and Calc seem pretty functionally interchangeable with
spreadsheet files at the day to day formula level, and some macros at
least.  Though I've never tried it with charts, nor with a spreadsheet
containing VB or whatever MS are calling their embedded application
programming language this year.  But yes Sid, I'd expect Calc to have
pretty good Excel compatibility these days.
Many thanks both, and to Serena.  All advice safely saved for future
reference.
Just for future reference, as I'm still using Office 2003 here but will
presumably have to update one day :( - I have Office 365 on my tablet
and that reads xls but writes xlsx, but you can get an add-on from M$
for Win7 that converts xlsx to xls. Is there no compatibility option for
W10 squirrelled away on an M$ site somewhere?
--
Kate B
London
Nick Leverton
2018-05-25 09:30:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kate B
Just for future reference, as I'm still using Office 2003 here but will
presumably have to update one day :( - I have Office 365 on my tablet
and that reads xls but writes xlsx, but you can get an add-on from M$
for Win7 that converts xlsx to xls. Is there no compatibility option for
W10 squirrelled away on an M$ site somewhere?
Can Office 365 "Save As" other formats ? I know Office 2013 and other
desktop versions can save as .xls or .xlsx (and even can save in Open
Doc format as .odt). Unusually, the "wisdom of crowds" search engine
doesn't seem to have an opinion either way.

Nick
--
"The Internet, a sort of ersatz counterfeit of real life"
-- Janet Street-Porter, BBC2, 19th March 1996
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-05-25 13:02:15 UTC
Permalink
In message <qmPNC.312884$***@fx01.am4>, the Omrud
<***@gmail.com> writes:
[]
Post by the Omrud
At some point Office switched its native data files to xml, which means
they are stored as text, albeit very complicated text. I think it
happened when they added the x to the file name suffix, e.g. docx.
Those files are very much more interchangeable. You can check by
opening an Excel with Notepad. If it's text, even though it makes
little sense, then it will be OK.
I can't help with Sid's original query about spreadsheets, but certainly
I've found that .docx files are really .zip files.

MS produced free add-ons to the pre-.###x-format versions of Office that
allowed you to open those files in the earlier version - i. e. it let
you open .docx and .xlsx files in an earlier version (I think it was
only the 2003 version). These _should_ still be available _somewhere_
(possibly even from MS). If ever using version 2007 or later, I always
change their default save option so that they save in the older one: I'm
not aware of anything in the newer format that I actually want (in fact
I don't even know what _is_ available in the newer versions that wasn't
in the older).

They also produced free _viewers_, and may still, but as those don't
allow _editing_ they're probably of no interest.

It seems odd that an "up"grade has prevented you Sid from being able to
open files you could before, but I certainly believe you. It's things
like that that make people feel justified in installing pirate copies of
older versions. (I have legal copies of both 2003 and 2007 installed
here - it is possible to do so! - on a W7-32 machine.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

the plural of 'anecdote' is not 'evidence'. Professor Edzart Ernst, prudential
magazine, AUTUMN 2006, p. 13.
Serena Blanchflower
2018-05-25 08:54:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sid Nuncius
I've installed LibreOffice (via Ninite, of course - thank you, umra!)
and that seems to be fine, so I'll manage OK, but I am cross, and not a
little shaken after a bad few hours.  Do umrats find Calc spreadsheets a
good alternative to Excel, btw?  And if I use it, can Excel open
spreadsheets from Calc if I ever go back to it?
To answer your last question, from what I hear, it shouldn't be too much
of a problem to move back to Excel, should you need to. To be pedantic,
Excel probably won't be able to open a Calc spreadsheet, but Calc can,
and will, save a spreadsheet in Excel format if required.
--
Best wishes, Serena
It is far better to be alone than to wish you were.
Nick Odell
2018-05-25 12:41:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sid Nuncius
My idea of a really good Windows update is one which leaves everything
the way I recognise it and doesn't nugger anything up too badly.  I
thought I'd got away with the latest bout, but I've discovered that my
hitherto perfectly serviceable 2002 version of Excel won't work at all
on some sheets, including those on which I keep all my accounts.
I've installed LibreOffice (via Ninite, of course - thank you, umra!)
and that seems to be fine, so I'll manage OK, but I am cross, and not a
little shaken after a bad few hours.  Do umrats find Calc spreadsheets a
good alternative to Excel, btw?  And if I use it, can Excel open
spreadsheets from Calc if I ever go back to it?
Er...that's it.  I just needed to tell a few pals.  I'll be OK once I've
had my breakfast.
Before I retired (1st Anniv. this weekend, BTW) I used to work on Excel
spreadsheets interchangeably between Excel in the office and LibreOffice
at home. I never did anything terribly complicated with them but there
were no hiccups.

Nick
krw
2018-05-26 12:23:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Sid Nuncius
My idea of a really good Windows update is one which leaves everything
the way I recognise it and doesn't nugger anything up too badly.  I
thought I'd got away with the latest bout, but I've discovered that my
hitherto perfectly serviceable 2002 version of Excel won't work at all
on some sheets, including those on which I keep all my accounts.
I've installed LibreOffice (via Ninite, of course - thank you, umra!)
and that seems to be fine, so I'll manage OK, but I am cross, and not
a little shaken after a bad few hours.  Do umrats find Calc
spreadsheets a good alternative to Excel, btw?  And if I use it, can
Excel open spreadsheets from Calc if I ever go back to it?
Er...that's it.  I just needed to tell a few pals.  I'll be OK once
I've had my breakfast.
Before I retired (1st Anniv. this weekend, BTW) I used to work on Excel
spreadsheets interchangeably between Excel in the office and LibreOffice
at home. I never did anything terribly complicated with them but there
were no hiccups.
Nick
Also
https://www.tenforums.com/microsoft-office-365/110581-windows-10-update-1803-crashes-excel-2002-a.html
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
Penny
2018-05-26 14:14:23 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 25 May 2018 13:41:09 +0100, Nick Odell
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Sid Nuncius
My idea of a really good Windows update is one which leaves everything
the way I recognise it and doesn't nugger anything up too badly.  I
thought I'd got away with the latest bout, but I've discovered that my
hitherto perfectly serviceable 2002 version of Excel won't work at all
on some sheets, including those on which I keep all my accounts.
I've installed LibreOffice (via Ninite, of course - thank you, umra!)
and that seems to be fine, so I'll manage OK, but I am cross, and not a
little shaken after a bad few hours.  Do umrats find Calc spreadsheets a
good alternative to Excel, btw?  And if I use it, can Excel open
spreadsheets from Calc if I ever go back to it?
Er...that's it.  I just needed to tell a few pals.  I'll be OK once I've
had my breakfast.
Before I retired (1st Anniv. this weekend, BTW) I used to work on Excel
spreadsheets interchangeably between Excel in the office and LibreOffice
at home. I never did anything terribly complicated with them but there
were no hiccups.
I've never had a legal copy of MS Office and get quite cross when friends
send me stuff created in it or any of its parts (particularly one friend
who used to share photos with me by putting them in powerpoint or some such
- but that's a rant for another day).

I haven't even bothered to install an 'office' style suite on this machine.
Using Google docs and Google sheets is easy enough, accessible from
anywhere and simple to share.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
krw
2018-05-26 12:22:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sid Nuncius
My idea of a really good Windows update is one which leaves everything
the way I recognise it and doesn't nugger anything up too badly.  I
thought I'd got away with the latest bout, but I've discovered that my
hitherto perfectly serviceable 2002 version of Excel won't work at all
on some sheets, including those on which I keep all my accounts.
I've installed LibreOffice (via Ninite, of course - thank you, umra!)
and that seems to be fine, so I'll manage OK, but I am cross, and not a
little shaken after a bad few hours.  Do umrats find Calc spreadsheets a
good alternative to Excel, btw?  And if I use it, can Excel open
spreadsheets from Calc if I ever go back to it?
Er...that's it.  I just needed to tell a few pals.  I'll be OK once I've
had my breakfast.
Windows 10 update - in itself - should not "stop" 2002 opening files.
You say "some" files. Are you able to identify the common feature of
those which open in 2002 and those which don't?

2002 introduced .xlsx as a new format (xml as explained elsewhere).

I would open one of the files in Libre Office, save as both .odt and
.xlsx under different names. Then see if they will open in Excel 2002.

I still try and avoid .xlsx format and only use .xls - and I am using
Excel 2010. At work someone got the new Excel, sent the file off to
Hong Kong and 5 months later when the watches were not delivered found
they had not been able to open the file so did not order production.

Why are people stupid?
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
Sid Nuncius
2018-05-27 18:08:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by krw
Post by Sid Nuncius
My idea of a really good Windows update is one which leaves everything
the way I recognise it and doesn't nugger anything up too badly.  I
thought I'd got away with the latest bout, but I've discovered that my
hitherto perfectly serviceable 2002 version of Excel won't work at all
on some sheets, including those on which I keep all my accounts.
I've installed LibreOffice (via Ninite, of course - thank you, umra!)
and that seems to be fine, so I'll manage OK, but I am cross, and not
a little shaken after a bad few hours.  Do umrats find Calc
spreadsheets a good alternative to Excel, btw?  And if I use it, can
Excel open spreadsheets from Calc if I ever go back to it?
Er...that's it.  I just needed to tell a few pals.  I'll be OK once
I've had my breakfast.
Windows 10 update - in itself - should not "stop" 2002 opening files.
You say "some" files.  Are you able to identify the common feature of
those which open in 2002 and those which don't?
They all open, but some refuse to allow me to make any changes.
Entering data into any cell causes Excel to crash, though. Others work
fine.

I have tried typing some numbers into random cells on a new sheet. It
works for a few cells, then crashes again. I simply don't understand
it. Thanks for the tips, and I may well try the conversion you advise,
but I think I'll probably go over to LibreOffice and use that instead.
I'm getting used to it...
--
Sid (Make sure Matron is away when you reply)
the Omrud
2018-05-29 12:50:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by krw
Post by Sid Nuncius
My idea of a really good Windows update is one which leaves
everything the way I recognise it and doesn't nugger anything up too
badly.  I thought I'd got away with the latest bout, but I've
discovered that my hitherto perfectly serviceable 2002 version of
Excel won't work at all on some sheets, including those on which I
keep all my accounts.
I've installed LibreOffice (via Ninite, of course - thank you, umra!)
and that seems to be fine, so I'll manage OK, but I am cross, and not
a little shaken after a bad few hours.  Do umrats find Calc
spreadsheets a good alternative to Excel, btw?  And if I use it, can
Excel open spreadsheets from Calc if I ever go back to it?
Er...that's it.  I just needed to tell a few pals.  I'll be OK once
I've had my breakfast.
Windows 10 update - in itself - should not "stop" 2002 opening files.
You say "some" files.  Are you able to identify the common feature of
those which open in 2002 and those which don't?
They all open, but some refuse to allow me to make any changes. Entering
data into any cell causes Excel to crash, though.  Others work fine.
I have tried typing some numbers into random cells on a new sheet. It
works for a few cells, then crashes again.  I simply don't understand
it.  Thanks for the tips, and I may well try the conversion you advise,
but I think I'll probably go over to LibreOffice and use that instead.
I'm getting used to it...
Have you tried running Excel in Compatibility Mode? Right-click on the
exe, choose Properties | Compatibility and then choose a suitable Mode
(perhaps Windows 7).
--
David
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