Discussion:
spoiler 22.9.21
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Vicky Ayech
2021-09-22 21:41:35 UTC
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Sniff. Listening now. Alice and Chris. I hope they manage to get
back together at some point.

Do they know Rob IS in the country? I am pleased we heard about Ben
and Beth and the Harvest Supper. I do NOT want more about Helen and
her scuzzy ex. I hope they find it is a false alarm quickly and end
the story line. I'll be sad to miss the majority good bits I liked
but...do not want Helen's angsty horrible stuff.
Serena Blanchflower
2021-09-23 08:17:32 UTC
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Post by Vicky Ayech
Sniff. Listening now. Alice and Chris. I hope they manage to get
back together at some point.
Yes, that would be good but they would have to fundamentally renegotiate
their relationship for it to work when Alice is sober and a fully
functioning adult. I'm not sure Chris is ready to hear that, so far at
least.
Post by Vicky Ayech
Do they know Rob IS in the country? I am pleased we heard about Ben
and Beth and the Harvest Supper. I do NOT want more about Helen and
her scuzzy ex. I hope they find it is a false alarm quickly and end
the story line. I'll be sad to miss the majority good bits I liked
but...do not want Helen's angsty horrible stuff.
No, they don't. I, along with others, have been shouting at both the
radio and Twitter that they need to get some security cameras put up.
That would allow them to see what's going on - and would provide good
evidence if it is Rob, or any other n'er do well.

I think the most likely candidate is one of Philip's horses looking for
him or (more likely) Gavin.
--
Best wishes, Serena
Q. Why do animals have fur coats?
A. Because they'd look silly in anoraks.
Penny
2021-09-23 10:18:05 UTC
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On Thu, 23 Sep 2021 09:17:32 +0100, Serena Blanchflower
Post by Serena Blanchflower
Post by Vicky Ayech
Sniff. Listening now. Alice and Chris. I hope they manage to get
back together at some point.
Yes, that would be good but they would have to fundamentally renegotiate
their relationship for it to work when Alice is sober and a fully
functioning adult. I'm not sure Chris is ready to hear that, so far at
least.
Post by Vicky Ayech
Do they know Rob IS in the country? I am pleased we heard about Ben
and Beth and the Harvest Supper. I do NOT want more about Helen and
her scuzzy ex. I hope they find it is a false alarm quickly and end
the story line. I'll be sad to miss the majority good bits I liked
but...do not want Helen's angsty horrible stuff.
No, they don't. I, along with others, have been shouting at both the
radio and Twitter that they need to get some security cameras put up.
That would allow them to see what's going on - and would provide good
evidence if it is Rob, or any other n'er do well.
I think the most likely candidate is one of Philip's horses looking for
him or (more likely) Gavin.
Having had a look at the spoilers for the next couple of weeks (on
Digiguide), I think you are right. The problem is Kirsty's, not Helen's.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Vicky Ayech
2021-09-23 10:41:24 UTC
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On Thu, 23 Sep 2021 09:17:32 +0100, Serena Blanchflower
Post by Serena Blanchflower
Post by Vicky Ayech
Sniff. Listening now. Alice and Chris. I hope they manage to get
back together at some point.
Yes, that would be good but they would have to fundamentally renegotiate
their relationship for it to work when Alice is sober and a fully
functioning adult. I'm not sure Chris is ready to hear that, so far at
least.
What is it about the previous relationship that won't work now? I
thought it almost unlikely that Chris would get so drunk and Alice
look aftr him, reversing their positions. And until they talked didn't
know he'd looked after her when she had a hangover, presumably aftr he
knew she was alcoholic. When they had the bathroom scene when she
was locked in and over later months I felt Chris was enjoying the
power over Alice in a way I didn't like, but last night he sounded as
if he really understood what was the situation with her now. I have
not understood why she must go away. I did suggest the AA plan says no
close relationships in the first year but was told it didn't mean
married couples.
Serena Blanchflower
2021-09-23 11:22:40 UTC
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Post by Penny
On Thu, 23 Sep 2021 09:17:32 +0100, Serena Blanchflower
Post by Serena Blanchflower
Post by Vicky Ayech
Sniff. Listening now. Alice and Chris. I hope they manage to get
back together at some point.
Yes, that would be good but they would have to fundamentally renegotiate
their relationship for it to work when Alice is sober and a fully
functioning adult. I'm not sure Chris is ready to hear that, so far at
least.
What is it about the previous relationship that won't work now? I
thought it almost unlikely that Chris would get so drunk and Alice
look aftr him, reversing their positions. And until they talked didn't
know he'd looked after her when she had a hangover, presumably aftr he
knew she was alcoholic. When they had the bathroom scene when she
was locked in and over later months I felt Chris was enjoying the
power over Alice in a way I didn't like, but last night he sounded as
if he really understood what was the situation with her now. I have
not understood why she must go away. I did suggest the AA plan says no
close relationships in the first year but was told it didn't mean
married couples.
We heard him looking after her (or heard references to him having had to
do so), when she had a hangover, many times before they acknowledged she
was an alcoholic.

Their relationship has become, over the years, a classic co-dependent
one, with Alice spinning ever further out of control, and Chris trying,
desperately, to impose some control over their joint lives. As Alice
drank ever more, Chris would be come more controlling[1], and vice
versa. This is a pretty toxic dynamic and one which would make it very
difficult for Alice to maintain her sobriety. The other aspect of this
is that Sober-Alice is likely to be a very different woman (and want a
very different relationship), compared to either Teenage-Alice (the
woman Chris fell in love with) or Drunken-Alice.

The thing which really surprises me is that we haven't heard any sign of
the clinic either running a family support group, or encouraging Chris,
or Brian&Jenny, to attend either that or any other group such as AlAnon.

When Latex Husbad was in rehab, the clinic did both of those things and
strongly encouraged immediate family members[2] to attend both. That
helped family members understand what was going on and to undo some of
the damage the alcoholism had done to our own lives, as well as the
alcoholics. If partners/parents were willing and able to change the
dynamics of the relationship, it greatly increased the chances of the
alcoholic successfully becoming sober[3].


[1] or, as he would see it, protective and loving
[2] mostly spouses but some parents
[3] although, sadly, latex husbad came out drinking at least as much as
before he went in.
--
Best wishes, Serena
Behind every successful man is a surprised woman (Maryon Pearson)
Vicky Ayech
2021-09-23 11:38:02 UTC
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On Thu, 23 Sep 2021 12:22:40 +0100, Serena Blanchflower
Post by Serena Blanchflower
Post by Penny
On Thu, 23 Sep 2021 09:17:32 +0100, Serena Blanchflower
Post by Serena Blanchflower
Post by Vicky Ayech
Sniff. Listening now. Alice and Chris. I hope they manage to get
back together at some point.
Yes, that would be good but they would have to fundamentally renegotiate
their relationship for it to work when Alice is sober and a fully
functioning adult. I'm not sure Chris is ready to hear that, so far at
least.
What is it about the previous relationship that won't work now? I
thought it almost unlikely that Chris would get so drunk and Alice
look aftr him, reversing their positions. And until they talked didn't
know he'd looked after her when she had a hangover, presumably aftr he
knew she was alcoholic. When they had the bathroom scene when she
was locked in and over later months I felt Chris was enjoying the
power over Alice in a way I didn't like, but last night he sounded as
if he really understood what was the situation with her now. I have
not understood why she must go away. I did suggest the AA plan says no
close relationships in the first year but was told it didn't mean
married couples.
We heard him looking after her (or heard references to him having had to
do so), when she had a hangover, many times before they acknowledged she
was an alcoholic.
Their relationship has become, over the years, a classic co-dependent
one, with Alice spinning ever further out of control, and Chris trying,
desperately, to impose some control over their joint lives. As Alice
drank ever more, Chris would be come more controlling[1], and vice
versa. This is a pretty toxic dynamic and one which would make it very
difficult for Alice to maintain her sobriety. The other aspect of this
is that Sober-Alice is likely to be a very different woman (and want a
very different relationship), compared to either Teenage-Alice (the
woman Chris fell in love with) or Drunken-Alice.
The thing which really surprises me is that we haven't heard any sign of
the clinic either running a family support group, or encouraging Chris,
or Brian&Jenny, to attend either that or any other group such as AlAnon.
When Latex Husbad was in rehab, the clinic did both of those things and
strongly encouraged immediate family members[2] to attend both. That
helped family members understand what was going on and to undo some of
the damage the alcoholism had done to our own lives, as well as the
alcoholics. If partners/parents were willing and able to change the
dynamics of the relationship, it greatly increased the chances of the
alcoholic successfully becoming sober[3].
[1] or, as he would see it, protective and loving
[2] mostly spouses but some parents
[3] although, sadly, latex husbad came out drinking at least as much as
before he went in.
Thank you, I think I understand a bit now. I think her parents will be
bad for her too if she stays with them. Would staying with Shula
work?
Oh! New idea, if not too close to B&J but Adam and Ian need more child
care and itis possible to look after two small children. I suppose seh
can't be their nanny and also look after Martha>? Or does she need to
regain self-respect by using her degree and training?
Serena Blanchflower
2021-09-23 11:48:22 UTC
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Post by Vicky Ayech
Thank you, I think I understand a bit now. I think her parents will be
bad for her too if she stays with them. Would staying with Shula
work?
Yes, staying with her parents would be a recipe for disaster for her.
If she stays in Ambridge, I think staying with Shula would be a good
option for her, probably working for her, in the Stables.
Post by Vicky Ayech
Oh! New idea, if not too close to B&J but Adam and Ian need more child
care and itis possible to look after two small children. I suppose seh
can't be their nanny and also look after Martha>?
For the moment, she seems to be content for Chris to have custody of
Martha but that may change, as she regains her confidence, both in
herself as a mother and in her sobriety.
Post by Vicky Ayech
Or does she need to
regain self-respect by using her degree and training?
In the long run, perhaps, but it'll be a while before she's regained
enough mental strength to be able to cope with the stresses of normal
life. For now, just surviving, sober, will be all that she can manage.
--
Best wishes, Serena
I cannot always control what goes on outside. But I can always control
what goes on inside. (Wayne Dwer)
carolet
2021-09-23 08:26:43 UTC
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Post by Vicky Ayech
Sniff. Listening now. Alice and Chris. I hope they manage to get
back together at some point.
Do they know Rob IS in the country? I am pleased we heard about Ben
and Beth and the Harvest Supper. I do NOT want more about Helen and
her scuzzy ex. I hope they find it is a false alarm quickly and end
the story line. I'll be sad to miss the majority good bits I liked
but...do not want Helen's angsty horrible stuff.
They are bound to assume that it is Rob, the thing that Helen fears
above all, and if it is Rob he must be in the country. I reckon that the
fact that they are assuming that it is Rob, tends to point to it not
being him. As somebody else has suggested, I think that it quite likely
to be Blake, having escaped from his new owner, come looking for Philip
and Gavin. I don't suppose he would know that they aren't there any more.
--
CaroleT
Nick Odell
2021-09-23 09:38:48 UTC
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Post by carolet
Post by Vicky Ayech
Sniff. Listening now. Alice and Chris. I hope they manage to get
back together at some point.
Do they know Rob IS in the country? I am pleased we heard about Ben
and Beth and the Harvest Supper. I do NOT want more about Helen and
her scuzzy ex. I hope they find it is a false alarm quickly and end
the story line. I'll be sad to miss the majority good bits I liked
but...do not want Helen's angsty horrible stuff.
They are bound to assume that it is Rob, the thing that Helen fears
above all, and if it is Rob he must be in the country. I reckon that the
fact that they are assuming that it is Rob, tends to point to it not
being him. As somebody else has suggested, I think that it quite likely
to be Blake, having escaped from his new owner, come looking for Philip
and Gavin. I don't suppose he would know that they aren't there any more.
Given what has been happening in Killamarsh during the currency of
this storyline, I find the possibility that this could be Rob deeply
disquieting. No bad taste intended - I really do.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-58635995

Nick
Sally Thompson
2021-09-23 18:22:55 UTC
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Post by carolet
Post by Vicky Ayech
Sniff. Listening now. Alice and Chris. I hope they manage to get
back together at some point.
Do they know Rob IS in the country? I am pleased we heard about Ben
and Beth and the Harvest Supper. I do NOT want more about Helen and
her scuzzy ex. I hope they find it is a false alarm quickly and end
the story line. I'll be sad to miss the majority good bits I liked
but...do not want Helen's angsty horrible stuff.
They are bound to assume that it is Rob, the thing that Helen fears
above all, and if it is Rob he must be in the country. I reckon that the
fact that they are assuming that it is Rob, tends to point to it not
being him. As somebody else has suggested, I think that it quite likely
to be Blake, having escaped from his new owner, come looking for Philip
and Gavin. I don't suppose he would know that they aren't there any more.
Also, how would Rob know that Helen and her sons aren't still at Bridge
Farm, and where they've moved to?
--
Sally in Shropshire, UK
krw
2021-09-23 09:07:39 UTC
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Post by Vicky Ayech
Do they know Rob IS in the country?
Given Harrison assured us he would be interviewed when he next entered
the country and given that we currently have to tell the management when
we enter the country (in terms of a passenger locator form) shirley the
police are reading all such forms and checking for the arrival of
undesirables? I assume all those arriving over the Channel have filled
in forms and taken appropriate tests before leaving France? Or is it
one rule for them and another rule for us?
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
Serena Blanchflower
2021-09-23 11:05:38 UTC
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Post by krw
Post by Vicky Ayech
Do they know Rob IS in the country?
Given Harrison assured us he would be interviewed when he next entered
the country and given that we currently have to tell the management when
we enter the country (in terms of a passenger locator form) shirley the
police are reading all such forms and checking for the arrival of
undesirables?  I assume all those arriving over the Channel have filled
in forms and taken appropriate tests before leaving France?  Or is it
one rule for them and another rule for us?
That's assuming he returned to the country on his own passport. ISTR
that we were told, when he left, that he'd stolen his brother's passport
and had travelled on that. Presumably, to have got back into the
country he would have had to do something similar or, possibly, have
come back via Ireland, as the restrictions on travel between Ireland and
the UK (especially if you go via NI) are very different from travel
directly from the US.

However, it's far more likely that he is still in the US, having found a
new woman to dominate, and has no immediate intention of bothering with
either Helen or Myson.
--
Best wishes, Serena
Be happy. It's one way of being wise. (Colette)
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