Discussion:
Umra film club
(too old to reply)
Vicky Ayech
2020-08-16 17:40:33 UTC
Permalink
Someone on gransnet mentioned a re-make of Brief Encounter, with Sofia
Loren and RIchard Burton. We thought this must be wrong but I checked
and it was one, so I watched it today. I can't stand Howard and
Johnson but like Burton and Loren and I thought it not at all bad.

The original was boring. Johnson is so lacking in presence and Howard
is unpleasance. Sofia Loren is so elegant, beautiful and with poise
and presence and Burton is so vital and dramatic. Howard is
unpleasant. Burton is dangerous. I suppose that might be a left over
from the film where he is bad news. The Medusa Touch.
Peter
2020-08-16 18:19:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vicky Ayech
Someone on gransnet mentioned a re-make of Brief Encounter, with Sofia
Loren and RIchard Burton. We thought this must be wrong but I checked
and it was one, so I watched it today. I can't stand Howard and
Johnson but like Burton and Loren and I thought it not at all bad.
The original was boring. Johnson is so lacking in presence and Howard
is unpleasance. Sofia Loren is so elegant, beautiful and with poise
and presence and Burton is so vital and dramatic. Howard is
unpleasant. Burton is dangerous. I suppose that might be a left over
from the film where he is bad news. The Medusa Touch.
When I first heard Burton recite 'What a piece of work is a man...' it
sent a shiver down my spine. All these years later it still does.
Steve Hague
2020-08-22 11:00:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter
Post by Vicky Ayech
Someone on gransnet mentioned a re-make of Brief Encounter, with Sofia
Loren and RIchard Burton.  We thought this must be wrong but I checked
and it was one, so I watched it today. I can't stand Howard and
Johnson but like Burton and Loren and I thought it not at all bad.
The original was boring. Johnson is so lacking in presence and Howard
is unpleasance. Sofia Loren is so elegant, beautiful and with poise
and presence and Burton is so vital and dramatic.   Howard is
unpleasant.  Burton is dangerous. I suppose that might be a left over
from the film where he is bad news.  The Medusa Touch.
When I first heard Burton recite 'What a piece of work is a man...' it
sent a shiver down my spine.  All these years later it still does.
'To begin at the beginning' has a similar effect on me.
Sally Thompson
2020-08-22 12:59:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Hague
Post by Peter
Post by Vicky Ayech
Someone on gransnet mentioned a re-make of Brief Encounter, with Sofia
Loren and RIchard Burton.  We thought this must be wrong but I checked
and it was one, so I watched it today. I can't stand Howard and
Johnson but like Burton and Loren and I thought it not at all bad.
The original was boring. Johnson is so lacking in presence and Howard
is unpleasance. Sofia Loren is so elegant, beautiful and with poise
and presence and Burton is so vital and dramatic.   Howard is
unpleasant.  Burton is dangerous. I suppose that might be a left over
from the film where he is bad news.  The Medusa Touch.
When I first heard Burton recite 'What a piece of work is a man...' it
sent a shiver down my spine.  All these years later it still does.
'To begin at the beginning' has a similar effect on me.
Oh yes! I could listen to that for ever. I had an early LP of it, bought at
my request by my then m-i-l. She listened to a bit before she gave it to
me (unforgivable!) and remarked, "it's all just words, isn't it".
Confirmation if needed that we had nothing in common.
--
Sally in Shropshire, UK
Sid Nuncius
2020-08-22 18:02:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sally Thompson
Post by Steve Hague
Post by Peter
When I first heard Burton recite 'What a piece of work is a man...' it
sent a shiver down my spine.  All these years later it still does.
'To begin at the beginning' has a similar effect on me.
Oh yes! I could listen to that for ever. I had an early LP of it, bought at
my request by my then m-i-l.
<snip>

<languid wave>
We had the LP version, too. "Starless and Bible-black..." is where it
really begins to get me.[1]

"Do not go gentle into that good night..." is even more emotive for me.


[1]I also quite often hear Bach's name on R3 and find myself saying
"Johann Sebastian mighty Bach" to myself in a Welsh accent[2]. That
just makes me smile, though.

[2]I did live in Swansea for three years and learn Welsh at school, so I
think I'm probably allowed.
--
Sid (Make sure Matron is away when you reply)
John Ashby
2020-08-22 18:48:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by Sally Thompson
Post by Steve Hague
Post by Peter
When I first heard Burton recite 'What a piece of work is a man...' it
sent a shiver down my spine.  All these years later it still does.
'To begin at the beginning' has a similar effect on me.
Oh yes! I could listen to that for ever. I had an early LP of it, bought at
my request by my then m-i-l.
<snip>
<languid wave>
We had the LP version, too.  "Starless and Bible-black..." is where it
really begins to get me.[1]
"Do not go gentle into that good night..." is even more emotive for me.
[1]I also quite often hear Bach's name on R3 and find myself saying
"Johann Sebastian mighty Bach" to myself in a Welsh accent[2].  That
just makes me smile, though.
[2]I did live in Swansea for three years and learn Welsh at school, so I
think I'm probably allowed.
Oh, Bach fach!

john
Peter
2020-08-22 18:56:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Ashby
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by Sally Thompson
Post by Steve Hague
Post by Peter
When I first heard Burton recite 'What a piece of work is a man...' it
sent a shiver down my spine.  All these years later it still does.
'To begin at the beginning' has a similar effect on me.
Oh yes! I could listen to that for ever. I had an early LP of it, bought at
my request by my then m-i-l.
<snip>
<languid wave>
We had the LP version, too.  "Starless and Bible-black..." is where it
really begins to get me.[1]
"Do not go gentle into that good night..." is even more emotive for me.
[1]I also quite often hear Bach's name on R3 and find myself saying
"Johann Sebastian mighty Bach" to myself in a Welsh accent[2].  That
just makes me smile, though.
[2]I did live in Swansea for three years and learn Welsh at school, so
I think I'm probably allowed.
Oh, Bach fach!
... lying on a tombstone.
Post by John Ashby
john
Sam Plusnet
2020-08-22 18:58:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Ashby
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by Sally Thompson
Post by Steve Hague
Post by Peter
When I first heard Burton recite 'What a piece of work is a man...' it
sent a shiver down my spine.  All these years later it still does.
'To begin at the beginning' has a similar effect on me.
Oh yes! I could listen to that for ever. I had an early LP of it, bought at
my request by my then m-i-l.
<snip>
<languid wave>
We had the LP version, too.  "Starless and Bible-black..." is where it
really begins to get me.[1]
"Do not go gentle into that good night..." is even more emotive for me.
[1]I also quite often hear Bach's name on R3 and find myself saying
"Johann Sebastian mighty Bach" to myself in a Welsh accent[2].  That
just makes me smile, though.
[2]I did live in Swansea for three years and learn Welsh at school, so
I think I'm probably allowed.
Oh, Bach fach!
But he's referring to Bach Fawr, not one of the bach Bachs.
--
Sam Plusnet
Steve Hague
2020-08-23 07:02:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sally Thompson
Post by Steve Hague
Post by Peter
Post by Vicky Ayech
Someone on gransnet mentioned a re-make of Brief Encounter, with Sofia
Loren and RIchard Burton.  We thought this must be wrong but I checked
and it was one, so I watched it today. I can't stand Howard and
Johnson but like Burton and Loren and I thought it not at all bad.
The original was boring. Johnson is so lacking in presence and Howard
is unpleasance. Sofia Loren is so elegant, beautiful and with poise
and presence and Burton is so vital and dramatic.   Howard is
unpleasant.  Burton is dangerous. I suppose that might be a left over
from the film where he is bad news.  The Medusa Touch.
When I first heard Burton recite 'What a piece of work is a man...' it
sent a shiver down my spine.  All these years later it still does.
'To begin at the beginning' has a similar effect on me.
Oh yes! I could listen to that for ever. I had an early LP of it, bought at
my request by my then m-i-l. She listened to a bit before she gave it to
me (unforgivable!) and remarked, "it's all just words, isn't it".
Confirmation if needed that we had nothing in common.
I had it on audio cassette, and would listen to it when driving between
jobs. At one time I think I had the whole thing off by heart.
Sam Plusnet
2020-08-24 00:58:51 UTC
Permalink
On 23-Aug-20 8:02, Steve Hague wrote:

of Under Milkwood
Post by Steve Hague
I had it on audio cassette, and would listen to it when driving between
jobs. At one time I think I had the whole thing off by heart.
I once tried listening to an audio-lecture whilst driving, but found
both tasks required too much attention.
BBC drama was a more viable drive-along companion, but tricky bits of
navigation always seemed to coincide with important bits of plot.
Music seemed the best compromise, but I mostly managed without.
--
Sam Plusnet
Jenny M Benson
2020-08-16 23:16:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vicky Ayech
Someone on gransnet mentioned a re-make of Brief Encounter, with Sofia
Loren and RIchard Burton. We thought this must be wrong but I checked
and it was one, so I watched it today. I can't stand Howard and
Johnson but like Burton and Loren and I thought it not at all bad.
The original was boring. Johnson is so lacking in presence and Howard
is unpleasance. Sofia Loren is so elegant, beautiful and with poise
and presence and Burton is so vital and dramatic. Howard is
unpleasant. Burton is dangerous. I suppose that might be a left over
from the film where he is bad news. The Medusa Touch.
Oh dear! We agree about some things, I know, Vicky, but I can't
disagree with you more over this one.

BE is far and away my best-loved-ever film. I watch it over and over.
I'll watch Trevor Howard in anything and like Celia Jonnson too. Can't
be doing with Richard Burton. Loren I can take or leave.

As for re-making classics. I wish they WOULDN'T.
--
Jenny M Benson
Wrexham, UK
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2020-08-17 01:07:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jenny M Benson
Post by Vicky Ayech
Someone on gransnet mentioned a re-make of Brief Encounter, with Sofia
Loren and RIchard Burton. We thought this must be wrong but I checked
and it was one, so I watched it today. I can't stand Howard and
Johnson but like Burton and Loren and I thought it not at all bad.
The original was boring. Johnson is so lacking in presence and Howard
is unpleasance. Sofia Loren is so elegant, beautiful and with poise
I agree SL is beautiful and poised. But wasn't the _point_ of BE that
she was very ordinary? A bit like the way Liza Minnelli was too good to
play Sally Bowles, who _wasn't_ supposed to be very good (I imagine the
young Judi Dench was excellent in the role). [Not that I don't enjoy
Liza very much in the role - the "so do I" moment and the title song are
both peak cinema IMO, and the film is great in itself - but I do
understand the concept of "too good".]

Also, the Johnson/Howard version has become a reference point, like
Casablanca; if only how it gets sent up rotten. (Not least by Harry
Enfield - who I normally find OTT - in "Norbert Smith: a life", with
Melvyn Bragg.) It's a meme.
Post by Jenny M Benson
Post by Vicky Ayech
and presence and Burton is so vital and dramatic. Howard is
unpleasant. Burton is dangerous. I suppose that might be a left over
from the film where he is bad news. The Medusa Touch.
(Don't think I've seen that one.)
Post by Jenny M Benson
Oh dear! We agree about some things, I know, Vicky, but I can't
disagree with you more over this one.
I do understand Vicky's point. I just, like you, disagree in this case.
Post by Jenny M Benson
BE is far and away my best-loved-ever film. I watch it over and over.
I'll watch Trevor Howard in anything and like Celia Jonnson too. Can't
be doing with Richard Burton. Loren I can take or leave.
RB's _voice_ was, for me, an excellent choice for (Jeff Wayne's) War of
the Worlds - it couldn't be anyone else. (Dum-dum Dummm ...) SL is
beautiful, and I think intelligent and good value as a person (e. g. as
a chat show guest); I can't remember anything she has been in, so can't
really comment on her acting ability. (I think - through no fault of her
own! - she has difficulty in playing other than SL; her appearance is so
distinctive.)
Post by Jenny M Benson
As for re-making classics. I wish they WOULDN'T.
Can you imagine a remake of Casablanca? (Though I have a nasty feeling
there _has_ been one.) _Sometimes_ a remake works if it's a re_working_,
with a very different approach - ideally if nobody knows it _is_ a
remake; or, if the original wasn't very good. But classics are of their
time, and I agree should be left as such.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

in the kingdom of the bland, the one idea is king. - Rory Bremner (on
politics), RT 2015/1/31-2/6
Vicky Ayech
2020-08-17 08:37:41 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 17 Aug 2020 02:07:28 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
<***@255soft.uk> wrote:

r and over.
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Jenny M Benson
I'll watch Trevor Howard in anything and like Celia Jonnson too. Can't
be doing with Richard Burton. Loren I can take or leave.
RB's _voice_ was, for me, an excellent choice for (Jeff Wayne's) War of
the Worlds - it couldn't be anyone else. (Dum-dum Dummm ...) SL is
beautiful, and I think intelligent and good value as a person (e. g. as
A Countess from Hong Kong with Marlon Brando? :) Ok, it wasn't the
best film inthe world but I did like it, and her in it, and Brando.
Sort of Pretty Woman at sea. But Loren was so poised.
The whole Chaplin family almost were delightfully in it, including
Charlie himself, as wella s producing it.
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
a chat show guest); I can't remember anything she has been in, so can't
really comment on her acting ability. (I think - through no fault of her
own! - she has difficulty in playing other than SL; her appearance is so
distinctive.)
Post by Jenny M Benson
As for re-making classics. I wish they WOULDN'T.
Can you imagine a remake of Casablanca? (Though I have a nasty feeling
there _has_ been one.) _Sometimes_ a remake works if it's a re_working_,
with a very different approach - ideally if nobody knows it _is_ a
remake; or, if the original wasn't very good. But classics are of their
time, and I agree should be left as such.
No, I can't imagine a remake of Casablanca, which is one of my
favourite films too. I suppose not liking Howard or Johnson
influenced me about BE whereas I love Bogart and Bacall and especially
Bergman.
Penny
2020-08-17 09:27:26 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 17 Aug 2020 02:07:28 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I agree SL is beautiful and poised. But wasn't the _point_ of BE that
she was very ordinary? A bit like the way Liza Minnelli was too good to
play Sally Bowles, who _wasn't_ supposed to be very good (I imagine the
young Judi Dench was excellent in the role). [Not that I don't enjoy
Liza very much in the role - the "so do I" moment and the title song are
both peak cinema IMO, and the film is great in itself - but I do
understand the concept of "too good".]
Surely to act as a poor singer/dancer one has to be good at both? Like Les
Dawson on the piano (or John Finnemore as Arthur Shappey in his recent
youtube Cabin Fever series). So if Minnelli was too good I blame the
director.
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Jenny M Benson
As for re-making classics. I wish they WOULDN'T.
It's a bit like the first interpretation of a song you hear being the only
one you like. I first heard Peggy Seeger singing 'The first time ever I saw
your face', my college friends were more familiar with the Roberta Flack
version and didn't like the one I played.

OTOH, I enjoyed several of the recent National Theatre productions, some
were plays I've seen before but the productions were very different, not
just because of gender swapping, they brought a fresh eye to the stories.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2020-08-17 10:31:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vicky Ayech
On Mon, 17 Aug 2020 02:07:28 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I agree SL is beautiful and poised. But wasn't the _point_ of BE that
she was very ordinary? A bit like the way Liza Minnelli was too good to
play Sally Bowles, who _wasn't_ supposed to be very good (I imagine the
young Judi Dench was excellent in the role). [Not that I don't enjoy
Liza very much in the role - the "so do I" moment and the title song are
both peak cinema IMO, and the film is great in itself - but I do
understand the concept of "too good".]
Surely to act as a poor singer/dancer one has to be good at both? Like Les
Dawson on the piano (or John Finnemore as Arthur Shappey in his recent
youtube Cabin Fever series). So if Minnelli was too good I blame the
director.
Interesting. I think to play spectacularly badly _well_, as Les Dawson
and Victor Borge do, you do indeed need to be a virtuoso; however, to
play someone doing their best but just not being very good, I think you
can do it with medium ability. As for Cabaret the film, I don't think
the _intention_ was to be realistic, but to make a stylish film (at
which IMO it very much succeeded).
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Jenny M Benson
As for re-making classics. I wish they WOULDN'T.
It's a bit like the first interpretation of a song you hear being the only
one you like. I first heard Peggy Seeger singing 'The first time ever I saw
your face', my college friends were more familiar with the Roberta Flack
version and didn't like the one I played.
Oh, very much so. Even the recording: for example, Timi Yuro's "Hurt", I
can tell from the first _word_ if it's the _recording_ I love; she's
made several others. And film/TV shows: to me, Jean Brodie _is_
Geraldine McEwan, who played her in the TV series (STV - 1978!), not the
person who played her in the film, excellent though the film I'm sure
is. (I like the [TV] theme music, by Marvin Hamlisch, too. Sorry,
getting OT.)

Applies to classical music too: I tend to like the performance I first
grew to know. (Though I tend to veer if I come across a performance by
the composer himself [can't think of any herself ones I have] - for
example, Percy Granger's rather syncopated "English Country Garden", or
Widor's own rendering of his organ piece which is slightly slower than
many play it.)
Post by Vicky Ayech
OTOH, I enjoyed several of the recent National Theatre productions, some
were plays I've seen before but the productions were very different, not
just because of gender swapping, they brought a fresh eye to the stories.
Yes, a _very_ different production often _doesn't_ jar.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

science is not intended to be foolproof. Science is about crawling toward the
truth over time. - Scott Adams, 2015-2-2
Penny
2020-08-17 14:51:19 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 17 Aug 2020 11:31:40 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Penny
It's a bit like the first interpretation of a song you hear being the only
one you like. I first heard Peggy Seeger singing 'The first time ever I saw
your face', my college friends were more familiar with the Roberta Flack
version and didn't like the one I played.
Oh, very much so. Even the recording: for example, Timi Yuro's "Hurt", I
can tell from the first _word_ if it's the _recording_ I love; she's
made several others.
At least one of my musician friends had no recorded music in her house for
many years (though I think she sometimes listened to it on the radio). When
I asked about this she explained that every performance is different and
she didn't want to hear the same one over and over again.

She did change her view on this later, possibly after performing at
festivals where she heard things she had never heard before and started
accumulating CDs bought from the performers.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Steve Hague
2020-08-22 11:09:06 UTC
Permalink
On
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Oh, very much so. Even the recording: for example, Timi Yuro's "Hurt", I
can tell from the first _word_ if it's the _recording_ I love; she's
made several others. And film/TV shows: to me, Jean Brodie _is_
Geraldine McEwan, who played her in the TV series (STV - 1978!), not the
person who played her in the film, excellent though the film I'm sure
is. (I like the [TV] theme music, by Marvin Hamlisch, too. Sorry,
getting OT.)
For me, Jean Brodie can only ever be played by Dame Maggie Smith.
Vicky Ayech
2020-08-22 12:39:06 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 22 Aug 2020 12:09:06 +0100, Steve Hague
Post by Steve Hague
On
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Oh, very much so. Even the recording: for example, Timi Yuro's "Hurt", I
can tell from the first _word_ if it's the _recording_ I love; she's
made several others. And film/TV shows: to me, Jean Brodie _is_
Geraldine McEwan, who played her in the TV series (STV - 1978!), not the
person who played her in the film, excellent though the film I'm sure
is. (I like the [TV] theme music, by Marvin Hamlisch, too. Sorry,
getting OT.)
For me, Jean Brodie can only ever be played by Dame Maggie Smith.
MTAAW
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2020-08-22 14:38:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vicky Ayech
On Sat, 22 Aug 2020 12:09:06 +0100, Steve Hague
Post by Steve Hague
On
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Oh, very much so. Even the recording: for example, Timi Yuro's "Hurt", I
can tell from the first _word_ if it's the _recording_ I love; she's
made several others. And film/TV shows: to me, Jean Brodie _is_
Geraldine McEwan, who played her in the TV series (STV - 1978!), not the
person who played her in the film, excellent though the film I'm sure
is. (I like the [TV] theme music, by Marvin Hamlisch, too. Sorry,
getting OT.)
For me, Jean Brodie can only ever be played by Dame Maggie Smith.
MTAAW
Exactly; it's who you saw first. I saw the TV series. (Probably had more
of an effect as it was a prolonged exposure.)

There _are_ exceptions; I think I'd seen other people play Miss Marple
before her (didn't Margaret Rutherford do so?), but Joan Hickson nailed
it for me. She could do That Look ...
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

I'm not a great fan of new technology. I don't change my phone every time the
bell rings - Sir David Attenborough, RT 2016/1/23-29
Sid Nuncius
2020-08-22 17:52:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I think I'd seen other people play Miss Marple
before her (didn't Margaret Rutherford do so?), but Joan Hickson nailed
it for me.
Me too. No one else will do now.
--
Sid (Make sure Matron is away when you reply)
Peter
2020-08-22 15:15:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vicky Ayech
On Sat, 22 Aug 2020 12:09:06 +0100, Steve Hague
Post by Steve Hague
On
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Oh, very much so. Even the recording: for example, Timi Yuro's "Hurt", I
can tell from the first _word_ if it's the _recording_ I love; she's
made several others. And film/TV shows: to me, Jean Brodie _is_
Geraldine McEwan, who played her in the TV series (STV - 1978!), not the
person who played her in the film, excellent though the film I'm sure
is. (I like the [TV] theme music, by Marvin Hamlisch, too. Sorry,
getting OT.)
For me, Jean Brodie can only ever be played by Dame Maggie Smith.
MTAAW
She was in her prime.
krw
2020-08-22 15:51:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Hague
On
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Oh, very much so. Even the recording: for example, Timi Yuro's "Hurt",
I can tell from the first _word_ if it's the _recording_ I love; she's
made several others. And film/TV shows: to me, Jean Brodie _is_
Geraldine McEwan, who played her in the TV series (STV - 1978!), not
the person who played her in the film, excellent though the film I'm
sure is. (I like the [TV] theme music, by Marvin Hamlisch, too. Sorry,
getting OT.)
For me, Jean Brodie can only ever be played by Dame Maggie Smith.
Hasn't she always played everything as Miss jean Brodie?
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
Sid Nuncius
2020-08-17 05:04:36 UTC
Permalink
As for re-making classics.  I wish they WOULDN'T.
<languid wave>
--
Sid (Make sure Matron is away when you reply)
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