Discussion:
spoiler Wednesday 19/5/21
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Vicky Ayech
2021-05-19 20:39:40 UTC
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Was that a brick through the glass door or did Alice drive her car
into the shop? I thought Jim reasonable and I think I'd have sold
Alice the vodka. You can't control an alcoholic. They have to do it
themself. She needs professional help. I can't help feeling Susan
loved that ability to deny Alice the bottle.

Yesterday the naughty SWs used that old interrupted conversation thing
with Peggy and jenefer. Bad SWs.
Serena Blanchflower
2021-05-19 20:46:20 UTC
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Post by Vicky Ayech
Was that a brick through the glass door or did Alice drive her car
into the shop? I thought Jim reasonable and I think I'd have sold
Alice the vodka. You can't control an alcoholic. They have to do it
themself. She needs professional help. I can't help feeling Susan
loved that ability to deny Alice the bottle.
My money is on it having been an empty vodka bottle (she may well keep
her stash of empties hidden in the car), as I didn't hear any sign of a
car engine.

I don't think I'd have sold her the vodka. As you say, you can't
control an alcoholic but you don't have to enable them, either. Selling
her the vodka could well help to reinforce her belief that she doesn't
really have a problem.

I agree that she needs professional help but, at the moment[1], she
isn't prepared to admit that she's got a problem and that she needs any
help at all, professional or otherwise. Until she does, there's very
little that anyone can do to help her.

[1] Hopefully, this might just change when she has to face the
consequences of this evening's outburst.
--
Best wishes, Serena
Q. What has a neck but no head?
A. A bottle
Vicky Ayech
2021-05-19 21:29:57 UTC
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On Wed, 19 May 2021 21:46:20 +0100, Serena Blanchflower
Post by Serena Blanchflower
Post by Vicky Ayech
Was that a brick through the glass door or did Alice drive her car
into the shop? I thought Jim reasonable and I think I'd have sold
Alice the vodka. You can't control an alcoholic. They have to do it
themself. She needs professional help. I can't help feeling Susan
loved that ability to deny Alice the bottle.
My money is on it having been an empty vodka bottle (she may well keep
her stash of empties hidden in the car), as I didn't hear any sign of a
car engine.
I don't think I'd have sold her the vodka. As you say, you can't
control an alcoholic but you don't have to enable them, either. Selling
her the vodka could well help to reinforce her belief that she doesn't
really have a problem.
I agree that she needs professional help but, at the moment[1], she
isn't prepared to admit that she's got a problem and that she needs any
help at all, professional or otherwise. Until she does, there's very
little that anyone can do to help her.
[1] Hopefully, this might just change when she has to face the
consequences of this evening's outburst.
I think she does know she has a problem. I felt it was the lesser of
two evils to sell her the bottle and not have her drive to get it. I
think the scene yesterday with Chris is what she is using to justify
drinking now. Of course there will always be emotional events and she
has to learn not to drink because of them, just as some of us had
tolearn not to go and eat chocolate or cake under similar stresses.
(commenting for a friend, who can stay off the chocolate most of the
time but very occasionally has a lapse. But then next day stops.)
Nick Odell
2021-05-19 22:43:49 UTC
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On Wed, 19 May 2021 21:46:20 +0100, Serena Blanchflower
Post by Serena Blanchflower
Post by Vicky Ayech
Was that a brick through the glass door or did Alice drive her car
into the shop? I thought Jim reasonable and I think I'd have sold
Alice the vodka. You can't control an alcoholic. They have to do it
themself. She needs professional help. I can't help feeling Susan
loved that ability to deny Alice the bottle.
My money is on it having been an empty vodka bottle (she may well keep
her stash of empties hidden in the car), as I didn't hear any sign of a
car engine.
I'm going for brick but with one caveat[1]. Whatever it was, it
crashed through the window with tremendous force and I suspect an
empty vodka bottle might have bounced off or at worst just partially
damaged the window. A full bottle of vodka might have done it but if
Alice had had a full bottle of vodka then the scene in the shop would
never have happened.

Nick
[1]The last time I saw a pick-upable brick lying in the street outside
a convenience store was in Birmingham in the summer of 1966 so I'm
guessing it might have been something as heavy and compact as a brick
but not actually a brick. A car fire extinguisher maybe?
Post by Serena Blanchflower
I don't think I'd have sold her the vodka. As you say, you can't
control an alcoholic but you don't have to enable them, either. Selling
her the vodka could well help to reinforce her belief that she doesn't
really have a problem.
I agree that she needs professional help but, at the moment[1], she
isn't prepared to admit that she's got a problem and that she needs any
help at all, professional or otherwise. Until she does, there's very
little that anyone can do to help her.
[1] Hopefully, this might just change when she has to face the
consequences of this evening's outburst.
Min
2021-05-20 01:22:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Vicky Ayech
On Wed, 19 May 2021 21:46:20 +0100, Serena Blanchflower
Post by Serena Blanchflower
Post by Vicky Ayech
Was that a brick through the glass door or did Alice drive her car
into the shop? I thought Jim reasonable and I think I'd have sold
Alice the vodka. You can't control an alcoholic. They have to do it
themself. She needs professional help. I can't help feeling Susan
loved that ability to deny Alice the bottle.
My money is on it having been an empty vodka bottle (she may well keep
her stash of empties hidden in the car), as I didn't hear any sign of a
car engine.
I'm going for brick but with one caveat[1]. Whatever it was, it
crashed through the window with tremendous force and I suspect an
empty vodka bottle might have bounced off or at worst just partially
damaged the window. A full bottle of vodka might have done it but if
Alice had had a full bottle of vodka then the scene in the shop would
never have happened.
Nick
[1]The last time I saw a pick-upable brick lying in the street outside
a convenience store was in Birmingham in the summer of 1966 so I'm
guessing it might have been something as heavy and compact as a brick
but not actually a brick. A car fire extinguisher maybe?
Was Martha in the car?
--
Min
Mike McMillan
2021-05-20 07:10:06 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Min
Post by Vicky Ayech
On Wed, 19 May 2021 21:46:20 +0100, Serena Blanchflower
Post by Serena Blanchflower
Post by Vicky Ayech
Was that a brick through the glass door or did Alice drive her car
into the shop? I thought Jim reasonable and I think I'd have sold
Alice the vodka. You can't control an alcoholic. They have to do it
themself. She needs professional help. I can't help feeling Susan
loved that ability to deny Alice the bottle.
My money is on it having been an empty vodka bottle (she may well keep
her stash of empties hidden in the car), as I didn't hear any sign of a
car engine.
I'm going for brick but with one caveat[1]. Whatever it was, it
crashed through the window with tremendous force and I suspect an
empty vodka bottle might have bounced off or at worst just partially
damaged the window. A full bottle of vodka might have done it but if
Alice had had a full bottle of vodka then the scene in the shop would
never have happened.
Nick
[1]The last time I saw a pick-upable brick lying in the street outside
a convenience store was in Birmingham in the summer of 1966 so I'm
guessing it might have been something as heavy and compact as a brick
but not actually a brick. A car fire extinguisher maybe?
Was Martha in the car?
Aren’t her bones buried under the ‘phone box?
--
Toodle Pip (My other iPad is an old Pro)
BrritSki
2021-05-20 07:24:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Min
Post by Vicky Ayech
On Wed, 19 May 2021 21:46:20 +0100, Serena Blanchflower
Post by Serena Blanchflower
Post by Vicky Ayech
Was that a brick through the glass door or did Alice drive her car
into the shop? I thought Jim reasonable and I think I'd have sold
Alice the vodka. You can't control an alcoholic. They have to do it
themself. She needs professional help. I can't help feeling Susan
loved that ability to deny Alice the bottle.
My money is on it having been an empty vodka bottle (she may well keep
her stash of empties hidden in the car), as I didn't hear any sign of a
car engine.
I'm going for brick but with one caveat[1]. Whatever it was, it
crashed through the window with tremendous force and I suspect an
empty vodka bottle might have bounced off or at worst just partially
damaged the window. A full bottle of vodka might have done it but if
Alice had had a full bottle of vodka then the scene in the shop would
never have happened.
Nick
[1]The last time I saw a pick-upable brick lying in the street outside
a convenience store was in Birmingham in the summer of 1966 so I'm
guessing it might have been something as heavy and compact as a brick
but not actually a brick. A car fire extinguisher maybe?
Was Martha in the car?
BTN ! LOL
Nick Odell
2021-05-20 09:38:31 UTC
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On Thu, 20 May 2021 08:24:53 +0100, BrritSki
Post by BrritSki
Post by Min
Post by Vicky Ayech
On Wed, 19 May 2021 21:46:20 +0100, Serena Blanchflower
Post by Serena Blanchflower
Post by Vicky Ayech
Was that a brick through the glass door or did Alice drive her car
into the shop? I thought Jim reasonable and I think I'd have sold
Alice the vodka. You can't control an alcoholic. They have to do it
themself. She needs professional help. I can't help feeling Susan
loved that ability to deny Alice the bottle.
My money is on it having been an empty vodka bottle (she may well keep
her stash of empties hidden in the car), as I didn't hear any sign of a
car engine.
I'm going for brick but with one caveat[1]. Whatever it was, it
crashed through the window with tremendous force and I suspect an
empty vodka bottle might have bounced off or at worst just partially
damaged the window. A full bottle of vodka might have done it but if
Alice had had a full bottle of vodka then the scene in the shop would
never have happened.
Nick
[1]The last time I saw a pick-upable brick lying in the street outside
a convenience store was in Birmingham in the summer of 1966 so I'm
guessing it might have been something as heavy and compact as a brick
but not actually a brick. A car fire extinguisher maybe?
Was Martha in the car?
BTN ! LOL
Absolutely. BTN & bar!

Nick
BrritSki
2021-05-20 09:54:06 UTC
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Post by Nick Odell
On Thu, 20 May 2021 08:24:53 +0100, BrritSki
Post by BrritSki
Post by Min
Post by Vicky Ayech
On Wed, 19 May 2021 21:46:20 +0100, Serena Blanchflower
Post by Serena Blanchflower
Post by Vicky Ayech
Was that a brick through the glass door or did Alice drive her car
into the shop? I thought Jim reasonable and I think I'd have sold
Alice the vodka. You can't control an alcoholic. They have to do it
themself. She needs professional help. I can't help feeling Susan
loved that ability to deny Alice the bottle.
My money is on it having been an empty vodka bottle (she may well keep
her stash of empties hidden in the car), as I didn't hear any sign of a
car engine.
I'm going for brick but with one caveat[1]. Whatever it was, it
crashed through the window with tremendous force and I suspect an
empty vodka bottle might have bounced off or at worst just partially
damaged the window. A full bottle of vodka might have done it but if
Alice had had a full bottle of vodka then the scene in the shop would
never have happened.
Nick
[1]The last time I saw a pick-upable brick lying in the street outside
a convenience store was in Birmingham in the summer of 1966 so I'm
guessing it might have been something as heavy and compact as a brick
but not actually a brick. A car fire extinguisher maybe?
Was Martha in the car?
BTN ! LOL
Absolutely. BTN & bar!
Don't mention the bar.
Oh, hello Alice, I didn't see you over there in the corner.
John Ashby
2021-05-20 11:57:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Min
Post by Vicky Ayech
On Wed, 19 May 2021 21:46:20 +0100, Serena Blanchflower
Post by Serena Blanchflower
Post by Vicky Ayech
Was that a brick through the glass door or did Alice drive her car
into the shop? I thought Jim reasonable and I think I'd have sold
Alice the vodka. You can't control an alcoholic. They have to do it
themself. She needs professional help. I can't help feeling Susan
loved that ability to deny Alice the bottle.
My money is on it having been an empty vodka bottle (she may well keep
her stash of empties hidden in the car), as I didn't hear any sign of a
car engine.
I'm going for brick but with one caveat[1]. Whatever it was, it
crashed through the window with tremendous force and I suspect an
empty vodka bottle might have bounced off or at worst just partially
damaged the window. A full bottle of vodka might have done it but if
Alice had had a full bottle of vodka then the scene in the shop would
never have happened.
Nick
[1]The last time I saw a pick-upable brick lying in the street outside
a convenience store was in Birmingham in the summer of 1966 so I'm
guessing it might have been something as heavy and compact as a brick
but not actually a brick. A car fire extinguisher maybe?
Was Martha in the car?
BTN !    LOL
Approved, though I feel I should add that a premature foetally alcohol
compromised baby at a few weeks old probably wouldn't have enough weight
to go through a shop window.

john
BrritSki
2021-05-20 12:08:46 UTC
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Post by John Ashby
Post by Min
Post by Vicky Ayech
On Wed, 19 May 2021 21:46:20 +0100, Serena Blanchflower
Post by Serena Blanchflower
Post by Vicky Ayech
Was that a brick through the glass door or did Alice drive her car
into the shop? I thought Jim reasonable and I think I'd have sold
Alice the vodka. You can't control an alcoholic. They have to do it
themself. She needs professional help. I can't help feeling Susan
loved that ability to deny Alice the bottle.
My money is on it having been an empty vodka bottle (she may well keep
her stash of empties hidden in the car), as I didn't hear any sign of a
car engine.
I'm going for brick but with one caveat[1]. Whatever it was, it
crashed through the window with tremendous force and I suspect an
empty vodka bottle might have bounced off or at worst just partially
damaged the window. A full bottle of vodka might have done it but if
Alice had had a full bottle of vodka then the scene in the shop would
never have happened.
Nick
[1]The last time I saw a pick-upable brick lying in the street outside
a convenience store was in Birmingham in the summer of 1966 so I'm
guessing it might have been something as heavy and compact as a brick
but not actually a brick. A car fire extinguisher maybe?
Was Martha in the car?
BTN !    LOL
Approved, though I feel I should add that a premature foetally alcohol
compromised baby at a few weeks old probably wouldn't have enough weight
to go through a shop window.
Has nobody mentioned the hydrocephalus ?
Sid Nuncius
2021-05-22 18:31:43 UTC
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Post by BrritSki
Post by John Ashby
Post by Min
Post by Nick Odell
[1]The last time I saw a pick-upable brick lying in the street outside
a convenience store was in Birmingham in the summer of 1966 so I'm
guessing it might have been something as heavy and compact as a brick
but not actually a brick. A car fire extinguisher maybe?
Was Martha in the car?
BTN !    LOL
Approved, though I feel I should add that a premature foetally alcohol
compromised baby at a few weeks old probably wouldn't have enough
weight to go through a shop window.
Has nobody mentioned the hydrocephalus ?
Ethanocephalus, shurely?
--
Sid
(Make sure Matron is away when you reply)
Mike McMillan
2021-05-22 18:33:23 UTC
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Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by BrritSki
Post by John Ashby
Post by Min
Post by Nick Odell
[1]The last time I saw a pick-upable brick lying in the street outside
a convenience store was in Birmingham in the summer of 1966 so I'm
guessing it might have been something as heavy and compact as a brick
but not actually a brick. A car fire extinguisher maybe?
Was Martha in the car?
BTN !    LOL
Approved, though I feel I should add that a premature foetally alcohol
compromised baby at a few weeks old probably wouldn't have enough
weight to go through a shop window.
Has nobody mentioned the hydrocephalus ?
Ethanocephalus, shurely?
That’s the spirit!
--
Toodle Pip (My other iPad is an old Pro)
Sam Plusnet
2021-05-22 20:32:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mike McMillan
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by BrritSki
Post by John Ashby
Post by Min
Post by Nick Odell
[1]The last time I saw a pick-upable brick lying in the street outside
a convenience store was in Birmingham in the summer of 1966 so I'm
guessing it might have been something as heavy and compact as a brick
but not actually a brick. A car fire extinguisher maybe?
Was Martha in the car?
BTN !    LOL
Approved, though I feel I should add that a premature foetally alcohol
compromised baby at a few weeks old probably wouldn't have enough
weight to go through a shop window.
Has nobody mentioned the hydrocephalus ?
Ethanocephalus, shurely?
That’s the spirit!
Do you have proof of that?

But let us not brandy words on this.
--
Sam Plusnet
Mike McMillan
2021-05-23 07:48:44 UTC
Reply
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Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Mike McMillan
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by BrritSki
Post by John Ashby
Post by Min
Post by Nick Odell
[1]The last time I saw a pick-upable brick lying in the street outside
a convenience store was in Birmingham in the summer of 1966 so I'm
guessing it might have been something as heavy and compact as a brick
but not actually a brick. A car fire extinguisher maybe?
Was Martha in the car?
BTN !    LOL
Approved, though I feel I should add that a premature foetally alcohol
compromised baby at a few weeks old probably wouldn't have enough
weight to go through a shop window.
Has nobody mentioned the hydrocephalus ?
Ethanocephalus, shurely?
That’s the spirit!
Do you have proof of that?
But let us not brandy words on this.
OK, I’ll bottle it; It could have been a real corker though.
--
Toodle Pip (My other iPad is an old Pro)
Mike McMillan
2021-05-20 12:21:30 UTC
Reply
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Post by John Ashby
Post by Min
Post by Vicky Ayech
On Wed, 19 May 2021 21:46:20 +0100, Serena Blanchflower
Post by Serena Blanchflower
Post by Vicky Ayech
Was that a brick through the glass door or did Alice drive her car
into the shop? I thought Jim reasonable and I think I'd have sold
Alice the vodka. You can't control an alcoholic. They have to do it
themself. She needs professional help. I can't help feeling Susan
loved that ability to deny Alice the bottle.
My money is on it having been an empty vodka bottle (she may well keep
her stash of empties hidden in the car), as I didn't hear any sign of a
car engine.
I'm going for brick but with one caveat[1]. Whatever it was, it
crashed through the window with tremendous force and I suspect an
empty vodka bottle might have bounced off or at worst just partially
damaged the window. A full bottle of vodka might have done it but if
Alice had had a full bottle of vodka then the scene in the shop would
never have happened.
Nick
[1]The last time I saw a pick-upable brick lying in the street outside
a convenience store was in Birmingham in the summer of 1966 so I'm
guessing it might have been something as heavy and compact as a brick
but not actually a brick. A car fire extinguisher maybe?
Was Martha in the car?
BTN !    LOL
Approved, though I feel I should add that a premature foetally alcohol
compromised baby at a few weeks old probably wouldn't have enough weight
to go through a shop window.
john
That might depend on the weight of the lead matinee jacket she happened to
be wearing…
--
Toodle Pip (My other iPad is an old Pro)
Vicky Ayech
2021-05-20 12:25:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by John Ashby
Post by Min
Post by Vicky Ayech
On Wed, 19 May 2021 21:46:20 +0100, Serena Blanchflower
Post by Serena Blanchflower
Post by Vicky Ayech
Was that a brick through the glass door or did Alice drive her car
into the shop? I thought Jim reasonable and I think I'd have sold
Alice the vodka. You can't control an alcoholic. They have to do it
themself. She needs professional help. I can't help feeling Susan
loved that ability to deny Alice the bottle.
My money is on it having been an empty vodka bottle (she may well keep
her stash of empties hidden in the car), as I didn't hear any sign of a
car engine.
I'm going for brick but with one caveat[1]. Whatever it was, it
crashed through the window with tremendous force and I suspect an
empty vodka bottle might have bounced off or at worst just partially
damaged the window. A full bottle of vodka might have done it but if
Alice had had a full bottle of vodka then the scene in the shop would
never have happened.
Nick
[1]The last time I saw a pick-upable brick lying in the street outside
a convenience store was in Birmingham in the summer of 1966 so I'm
guessing it might have been something as heavy and compact as a brick
but not actually a brick. A car fire extinguisher maybe?
Was Martha in the car?
BTN !    LOL
Approved, though I feel I should add that a premature foetally alcohol
compromised baby at a few weeks old probably wouldn't have enough weight
to go through a shop window.
john
Until you posted this I had no idea what the BTN was about. It never
occurred to me the baby could be thrown.
krw
2021-05-20 12:45:06 UTC
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Post by Vicky Ayech
Until you posted this I had no idea what the BTN was about. It never
occurred to me the baby could be thrown.
It never occurred to me that anyone would drop a baby until Alice
attempted it.
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
Mike McMillan
2021-05-20 14:25:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by John Ashby
Post by Min
Post by Vicky Ayech
On Wed, 19 May 2021 21:46:20 +0100, Serena Blanchflower
Post by Serena Blanchflower
Post by Vicky Ayech
Was that a brick through the glass door or did Alice drive her car
into the shop? I thought Jim reasonable and I think I'd have sold
Alice the vodka. You can't control an alcoholic. They have to do it
themself. She needs professional help. I can't help feeling Susan
loved that ability to deny Alice the bottle.
My money is on it having been an empty vodka bottle (she may well keep
her stash of empties hidden in the car), as I didn't hear any sign of a
car engine.
I'm going for brick but with one caveat[1]. Whatever it was, it
crashed through the window with tremendous force and I suspect an
empty vodka bottle might have bounced off or at worst just partially
damaged the window. A full bottle of vodka might have done it but if
Alice had had a full bottle of vodka then the scene in the shop would
never have happened.
Nick
[1]The last time I saw a pick-upable brick lying in the street outside
a convenience store was in Birmingham in the summer of 1966 so I'm
guessing it might have been something as heavy and compact as a brick
but not actually a brick. A car fire extinguisher maybe?
Was Martha in the car?
BTN !    LOL
Approved, though I feel I should add that a premature foetally alcohol
compromised baby at a few weeks old probably wouldn't have enough weight
to go through a shop window.
john
Until you posted this I had no idea what the BTN was about. It never
occurred to me the baby could be thrown.
Perhaps the vodka was to make a Molotov cocktail of Martha….
--
Toodle Pip (My other iPad is an old Pro)
Min
2021-05-21 02:06:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by John Ashby
Post by Min
Post by Vicky Ayech
On Wed, 19 May 2021 21:46:20 +0100, Serena Blanchflower
Post by Serena Blanchflower
Post by Vicky Ayech
Was that a brick through the glass door or did Alice drive her car
into the shop? I thought Jim reasonable and I think I'd have sold
Alice the vodka. You can't control an alcoholic. They have to do it
themself. She needs professional help. I can't help feeling Susan
loved that ability to deny Alice the bottle.
My money is on it having been an empty vodka bottle (she may well keep
her stash of empties hidden in the car), as I didn't hear any sign of a
car engine.
I'm going for brick but with one caveat[1]. Whatever it was, it
crashed through the window with tremendous force and I suspect an
empty vodka bottle might have bounced off or at worst just partially
damaged the window. A full bottle of vodka might have done it but if
Alice had had a full bottle of vodka then the scene in the shop would
never have happened.
Nick
[1]The last time I saw a pick-upable brick lying in the street outside
a convenience store was in Birmingham in the summer of 1966 so I'm
guessing it might have been something as heavy and compact as a brick
but not actually a brick. A car fire extinguisher maybe?
Was Martha in the car?
BTN ! LOL
Approved, though I feel I should add that a premature foetally alcohol
compromised baby at a few weeks old probably wouldn't have enough weight
to go through a shop window.
john
Thanks, BTM, Nick & BrritSki!
--
Min
Vicky Ayech
2021-05-20 07:50:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 19 May 2021 18:22:27 -0700 (PDT), Min
Post by Min
Post by Vicky Ayech
On Wed, 19 May 2021 21:46:20 +0100, Serena Blanchflower
Post by Serena Blanchflower
Post by Vicky Ayech
Was that a brick through the glass door or did Alice drive her car
into the shop? I thought Jim reasonable and I think I'd have sold
Alice the vodka. You can't control an alcoholic. They have to do it
themself. She needs professional help. I can't help feeling Susan
loved that ability to deny Alice the bottle.
My money is on it having been an empty vodka bottle (she may well keep
her stash of empties hidden in the car), as I didn't hear any sign of a
car engine.
I'm going for brick but with one caveat[1]. Whatever it was, it
crashed through the window with tremendous force and I suspect an
empty vodka bottle might have bounced off or at worst just partially
damaged the window. A full bottle of vodka might have done it but if
Alice had had a full bottle of vodka then the scene in the shop would
never have happened.
Nick
[1]The last time I saw a pick-upable brick lying in the street outside
a convenience store was in Birmingham in the summer of 1966 so I'm
guessing it might have been something as heavy and compact as a brick
but not actually a brick. A car fire extinguisher maybe?
Was Martha in the car?
Chris won't even leave Alice alone in a room with martha when he
allows a vist. Never mind take her out of the house. That was part of
the current trigger for Alice. She complained and he cut her visit
short. Threw her out.
Vicky Ayech
2021-05-20 07:47:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 19 May 2021 23:43:49 +0100, Nick Odell
Post by Vicky Ayech
On Wed, 19 May 2021 21:46:20 +0100, Serena Blanchflower
Post by Serena Blanchflower
Post by Vicky Ayech
Was that a brick through the glass door or did Alice drive her car
into the shop? I thought Jim reasonable and I think I'd have sold
Alice the vodka. You can't control an alcoholic. They have to do it
themself. She needs professional help. I can't help feeling Susan
loved that ability to deny Alice the bottle.
My money is on it having been an empty vodka bottle (she may well keep
her stash of empties hidden in the car), as I didn't hear any sign of a
car engine.
I'm going for brick but with one caveat[1]. Whatever it was, it
crashed through the window with tremendous force and I suspect an
empty vodka bottle might have bounced off or at worst just partially
damaged the window. A full bottle of vodka might have done it but if
Alice had had a full bottle of vodka then the scene in the shop would
never have happened.
Nick
[1]The last time I saw a pick-upable brick lying in the street outside
a convenience store was in Birmingham in the summer of 1966 so I'm
guessing it might have been something as heavy and compact as a brick
but not actually a brick. A car fire extinguisher maybe?
The extinguisher would not be filled with meths? She mightnot throw
it if so. Oh that wouldbe flammable?
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Serena Blanchflower
I don't think I'd have sold her the vodka. As you say, you can't
control an alcoholic but you don't have to enable them, either. Selling
her the vodka could well help to reinforce her belief that she doesn't
really have a problem.
I agree that she needs professional help but, at the moment[1], she
isn't prepared to admit that she's got a problem and that she needs any
help at all, professional or otherwise. Until she does, there's very
little that anyone can do to help her.
[1] Hopefully, this might just change when she has to face the
consequences of this evening's outburst.
Mike McMillan
2021-05-20 07:07:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Serena Blanchflower
Post by Vicky Ayech
Was that a brick through the glass door or did Alice drive her car
into the shop? I thought Jim reasonable and I think I'd have sold
Alice the vodka. You can't control an alcoholic. They have to do it
themself. She needs professional help. I can't help feeling Susan
loved that ability to deny Alice the bottle.
My money is on it having been an empty vodka bottle (she may well keep
her stash of empties hidden in the car), as I didn't hear any sign of a
car engine.
I don't think I'd have sold her the vodka. As you say, you can't
control an alcoholic but you don't have to enable them, either. Selling
her the vodka could well help to reinforce her belief that she doesn't
really have a problem.
I agree that she needs professional help but, at the moment[1], she
isn't prepared to admit that she's got a problem and that she needs any
help at all, professional or otherwise. Until she does, there's very
little that anyone can do to help her.
[1] Hopefully, this might just change when she has to face the
consequences of this evening's outburst.
I’m beginning to feel the simplest solution may be that off-button:-(((
--
Toodle Pip (My other iPad is an old Pro)
Mike McMillan
2021-05-20 07:12:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mike McMillan
Post by Serena Blanchflower
Post by Vicky Ayech
Was that a brick through the glass door or did Alice drive her car
into the shop? I thought Jim reasonable and I think I'd have sold
Alice the vodka. You can't control an alcoholic. They have to do it
themself. She needs professional help. I can't help feeling Susan
loved that ability to deny Alice the bottle.
My money is on it having been an empty vodka bottle (she may well keep
her stash of empties hidden in the car), as I didn't hear any sign of a
car engine.
I don't think I'd have sold her the vodka. As you say, you can't
control an alcoholic but you don't have to enable them, either. Selling
her the vodka could well help to reinforce her belief that she doesn't
really have a problem.
I agree that she needs professional help but, at the moment[1], she
isn't prepared to admit that she's got a problem and that she needs any
help at all, professional or otherwise. Until she does, there's very
little that anyone can do to help her.
[1] Hopefully, this might just change when she has to face the
consequences of this evening's outburst.
I’m beginning to feel the simplest solution may be that off-button:-(((
Yes, I know that Aunty has to do ‘issshooos’ but, why can’t TA just be an
everyday story about country folk?
--
Toodle Pip (My other iPad is an old Pro)
Serena Blanchflower
2021-05-20 08:07:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mike McMillan
Post by Mike McMillan
Post by Serena Blanchflower
Post by Vicky Ayech
Was that a brick through the glass door or did Alice drive her car
into the shop? I thought Jim reasonable and I think I'd have sold
Alice the vodka. You can't control an alcoholic. They have to do it
themself. She needs professional help. I can't help feeling Susan
loved that ability to deny Alice the bottle.
My money is on it having been an empty vodka bottle (she may well keep
her stash of empties hidden in the car), as I didn't hear any sign of a
car engine.
I don't think I'd have sold her the vodka. As you say, you can't
control an alcoholic but you don't have to enable them, either. Selling
her the vodka could well help to reinforce her belief that she doesn't
really have a problem.
I agree that she needs professional help but, at the moment[1], she
isn't prepared to admit that she's got a problem and that she needs any
help at all, professional or otherwise. Until she does, there's very
little that anyone can do to help her.
[1] Hopefully, this might just change when she has to face the
consequences of this evening's outburst.
I’m beginning to feel the simplest solution may be that off-button:-(((
Yes, I know that Aunty has to do ‘issshooos’ but, why can’t TA just be an
everyday story about country folk?
Sadly, the everyday lives of country folk are all too likely to include
things like alcoholism and coercive control. The countryside isn't some
perfect idyll where nothing nasty happens.
--
Best wishes, Serena
All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of thing shall
be well. (Julian of Norwich)
Vicky Ayech
2021-05-20 08:16:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 20 May 2021 09:07:55 +0100, Serena Blanchflower
Post by Serena Blanchflower
Post by Serena Blanchflower
Post by Vicky Ayech
Was that a brick through the glass door or did Alice drive her car
into the shop? I thought Jim reasonable and I think I'd have sold
Alice the vodka. You can't control an alcoholic. They have to do it
themself. She needs professional help. I can't help feeling Susan
loved that ability to deny Alice the bottle.
My money is on it having been an empty vodka bottle (she may well keep
her stash of empties hidden in the car), as I didn't hear any sign of a
car engine.
I don't think I'd have sold her the vodka. As you say, you can't
control an alcoholic but you don't have to enable them, either. Selling
her the vodka could well help to reinforce her belief that she doesn't
really have a problem.
I agree that she needs professional help but, at the moment[1], she
isn't prepared to admit that she's got a problem and that she needs any
help at all, professional or otherwise. Until she does, there's very
little that anyone can do to help her.
[1] Hopefully, this might just change when she has to face the
consequences of this evening's outburst.
I’m beginning to feel the simplest solution may be that off-button:-(((
Yes, I know that Aunty has to do ‘issshooos’ but, why can’t TA just be an
everyday story about country folk?
Sadly, the everyday lives of country folk are all too likely to include
things like alcoholism and coercive control. The countryside isn't some
perfect idyll where nothing nasty happens.
Yes. But not too many issues please and not forced into the stories.
Alice is fair enough as has been on the way for a while. But bringing
in Elizabeth again and Umbrella's depression at the same time in the
same nuggering episode is NO.
Vicky Ayech
2021-05-20 09:58:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 20 May 2021 09:07:55 +0100, Serena Blanchflower
On 20/05/2021 08:12, Mike McMillan wrot
Sadly, the everyday lives of country folk are all too likely to include
things like alcoholism and coercive control. The countryside isn't some
perfect idyll where nothing nasty happens.
Iplayer spoiler for today says Alice faces the consequences. Oh dear.
Presumably Susan called the police? Or would Jim dissuade her?
Presumably Alice can't now go and get vodka though. And as this is a
violent act the Carters will use the incident to ban Alice from seeing
Martha at all. Mind you, someone should remind ex-con Susan about
Clive being nasty and scary so not all her family are saints either.
If they don't call harrison or other police would they call Brian and
Jenefer to take Alice to a suitable establishment.
Mike McMillan
2021-05-20 10:18:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Vicky Ayech
On Thu, 20 May 2021 09:07:55 +0100, Serena Blanchflower
On 20/05/2021 08:12, Mike McMillan wrot
Sadly, the everyday lives of country folk are all too likely to include
things like alcoholism and coercive control. The countryside isn't some
perfect idyll where nothing nasty happens.
Iplayer spoiler for today says Alice faces the consequences. Oh dear.
Presumably Susan called the police? Or would Jim dissuade her?
Presumably Alice can't now go and get vodka though. And as this is a
violent act the Carters will use the incident to ban Alice from seeing
Martha at all. Mind you, someone should remind ex-con Susan about
Clive being nasty and scary so not all her family are saints either.
If they don't call harrison or other police would they call Brian and
Jenefer to take Alice to a suitable establishment.
Preferably one where there are no microphones - I don’t care if I never
hear Alllissss ever again!
--
Toodle Pip (My other iPad is an old Pro)
Nick Odell
2021-05-20 10:40:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 20 May 2021 10:18:17 GMT, Mike McMillan
Post by Vicky Ayech
On Thu, 20 May 2021 09:07:55 +0100, Serena Blanchflower
On 20/05/2021 08:12, Mike McMillan wrot
Sadly, the everyday lives of country folk are all too likely to include
things like alcoholism and coercive control. The countryside isn't some
perfect idyll where nothing nasty happens.
Iplayer spoiler for today says Alice faces the consequences. Oh dear.
Presumably Susan called the police? Or would Jim dissuade her?
Presumably Alice can't now go and get vodka though. And as this is a
violent act the Carters will use the incident to ban Alice from seeing
Martha at all. Mind you, someone should remind ex-con Susan about
Clive being nasty and scary so not all her family are saints either.
If they don't call harrison or other police would they call Brian and
Jenefer to take Alice to a suitable establishment.
Preferably one where there are no microphones - I don’t care if I never
hear Alllissss ever again!


"I'm going to move to a new town where the people are nice."

Nick
Vicky Ayech
2021-05-20 10:53:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 20 May 2021 11:40:46 +0100, Nick Odell
Post by Nick Odell
On Thu, 20 May 2021 10:18:17 GMT, Mike McMillan
Post by Vicky Ayech
On Thu, 20 May 2021 09:07:55 +0100, Serena Blanchflower
Preferably one where there are no microphones - I don’t care if I never
hear Alllissss ever again!
http://youtu.be/iRd3Z9rFAbE
"I'm going to move to a new town where the people are nice."
Nick
It might be my hearing aids but I could only manage 2 seconds of that.
What a very irritating sound! A sort of clicky scrape, regularly.
Squeaky guitar playing?
Nick Odell
2021-05-20 11:53:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 20 May 2021 11:53:46 +0100, Vicky Ayech
Post by Vicky Ayech
On Thu, 20 May 2021 11:40:46 +0100, Nick Odell
Post by Nick Odell
On Thu, 20 May 2021 10:18:17 GMT, Mike McMillan
Post by Vicky Ayech
On Thu, 20 May 2021 09:07:55 +0100, Serena Blanchflower
Preferably one where there are no microphones - I don’t care if I never
hear Alllissss ever again!
http://youtu.be/iRd3Z9rFAbE
"I'm going to move to a new town where the people are nice."
Nick
It might be my hearing aids but I could only manage 2 seconds of that.
What a very irritating sound! A sort of clicky scrape, regularly.
Squeaky guitar playing?
I chose that version because in my opinion the singer has captured the
self-centred, it's-all-about-me attitude that Alice displays. If you
can bear to listen, maybe you will see what I mean.

If you can't bear it, here is a blander version by Tina Arena


And this is the 1980 original by Split Enz which is also perhaps too
much - but in a different way


Nick
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2021-05-20 11:53:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Vicky Ayech
On Thu, 20 May 2021 11:40:46 +0100, Nick Odell
Post by Nick Odell
On Thu, 20 May 2021 10:18:17 GMT, Mike McMillan
[]
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Mike McMillan
Preferably one where there are no microphones - I don’t care if I never
hear Alllissss ever again!
http://youtu.be/iRd3Z9rFAbE
"I'm going to move to a new town where the people are nice."
Nick
It might be my hearing aids but I could only manage 2 seconds of that.
What a very irritating sound! A sort of clicky scrape, regularly.
Squeaky guitar playing?
Sliding along the strings, which since they have something wound round
them, makes a scraping noise. Considered authentic and a sign of good
(or at least sensitive) recording if picked up - and OK in its place;
perhaps a little excessive in this case.

I listened a bit beyond, but found the "tune" very miserable. Sorry -
musical tastes differ, and just because I didn't like it doesn't mean it
was bad.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

... social media's tendency to knock on front doors and run away.
Andrew Collins, RT 2017/8/5-11
John Ashby
2021-05-20 11:58:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Serena Blanchflower
Post by Mike McMillan
Post by Mike McMillan
Post by Serena Blanchflower
Post by Vicky Ayech
Was that a brick through the glass door or did Alice drive her car
into the shop?   I thought Jim reasonable and I think I'd have sold
Alice the vodka. You can't control an alcoholic. They have to do it
themself. She needs professional help. I can't help feeling Susan
loved that ability to deny Alice the bottle.
My money is on it having been an empty vodka bottle (she may well keep
her stash of empties hidden in the car), as I didn't hear any sign of a
car engine.
I don't think I'd have sold her the vodka.  As you say, you can't
control an alcoholic but you don't have to enable them, either.
Selling
her the vodka could well help to reinforce her belief that she doesn't
really have a problem.
I agree that she needs professional help but, at the moment[1], she
isn't prepared to admit that she's got a problem and that she needs any
help at all, professional or otherwise.  Until she does, there's very
little that anyone can do to help her.
[1]  Hopefully, this might just change when she has to face the
consequences of this evening's outburst.
I’m beginning to feel the simplest solution may be that off-button:-(((
Yes, I know that Aunty has to do ‘issshooos’ but, why can’t TA just be an
everyday story about country folk?
Sadly, the everyday lives of country folk are all too likely to include
things like alcoholism and coercive control.  The countryside isn't some
perfect idyll where nothing nasty happens.
Too many woodsheds for that.

john
BrritSki
2021-05-20 12:10:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by John Ashby
Post by Serena Blanchflower
Sadly, the everyday lives of country folk are all too likely to
include things like alcoholism and coercive control.  The countryside
isn't some perfect idyll where nothing nasty happens.
Too many woodsheds for that.
A cold comfort you are...
krw
2021-05-20 10:04:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mike McMillan
Post by Mike McMillan
Post by Serena Blanchflower
Post by Vicky Ayech
Was that a brick through the glass door or did Alice drive her car
into the shop? I thought Jim reasonable and I think I'd have sold
Alice the vodka. You can't control an alcoholic. They have to do it
themself. She needs professional help. I can't help feeling Susan
loved that ability to deny Alice the bottle.
My money is on it having been an empty vodka bottle (she may well keep
her stash of empties hidden in the car), as I didn't hear any sign of a
car engine.
I don't think I'd have sold her the vodka. As you say, you can't
control an alcoholic but you don't have to enable them, either. Selling
her the vodka could well help to reinforce her belief that she doesn't
really have a problem.
I agree that she needs professional help but, at the moment[1], she
isn't prepared to admit that she's got a problem and that she needs any
help at all, professional or otherwise. Until she does, there's very
little that anyone can do to help her.
[1] Hopefully, this might just change when she has to face the
consequences of this evening's outburst.
I’m beginning to feel the simplest solution may be that off-button:-(((
Yes, I know that Aunty has to do ‘issshooos’ but, why can’t TA just be an
everyday story about country folk?
Do we really think that Alice would actually behave like that? I don't,
no matter how much she has had to drink and not knowing what she did.
Given the clear evidence that she was polite and reasonable throughout
her discussion with Jim I would posit she had had some alcohol - but not
anywhere near enough to ruin her excellent demonstration of reasoning
and the arguing of the safer solution of selling her alcohol and she was
not slurring her words or acting drunk. Given that state of mind she
might be angry and she might be "bangry" - booze/angry - but she would
not result to destruction.

And once we stop believing in the characters all is lost. And that
comes on top of Peggy not mentioning Alice's drink problems to he
daughter. She would not have kept it quiet, sorry, she knows the
dangers and would have confided in Jenny.
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
Vicky Ayech
2021-05-20 10:51:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by krw
Post by Serena Blanchflower
Post by Vicky Ayech
Was that a brick through the glass door or did Alice drive her car
into the shop? I thought Jim reasonable and I think I'd have sold
Alice the vodka. You can't control an alcoholic. They have to do it
themself. She needs professional help. I can't help feeling Susan
loved that ability to deny Alice the bottle.
My money is on it having been an empty vodka bottle (she may well keep
her stash of empties hidden in the car), as I didn't hear any sign of a
car engine.
I don't think I'd have sold her the vodka. As you say, you can't
control an alcoholic but you don't have to enable them, either. Selling
her the vodka could well help to reinforce her belief that she doesn't
really have a problem.
I agree that she needs professional help but, at the moment[1], she
isn't prepared to admit that she's got a problem and that she needs any
help at all, professional or otherwise. Until she does, there's very
little that anyone can do to help her.
[1] Hopefully, this might just change when she has to face the
consequences of this evening's outburst.
I’m beginning to feel the simplest solution may be that off-button:-(((
Yes, I know that Aunty has to do ‘issshooos’ but, why can’t TA just be an
everyday story about country folk?
Do we really think that Alice would actually behave like that? I don't,
no matter how much she has had to drink and not knowing what she did.
Given the clear evidence that she was polite and reasonable throughout
her discussion with Jim I would posit she had had some alcohol - but not
anywhere near enough to ruin her excellent demonstration of reasoning
and the arguing of the safer solution of selling her alcohol and she was
not slurring her words or acting drunk. Given that state of mind she
might be angry and she might be "bangry" - booze/angry - but she would
not result to destruction.
And once we stop believing in the characters all is lost. And that
comes on top of Peggy not mentioning Alice's drink problems to he
daughter. She would not have kept it quiet, sorry, she knows the
dangers and would have confided in Jenny.
She nuggering well tried to tell Jenny but the SWs did an interrupted
conversation thing. Jenny went to succour Alice as she left Chris and
Martha. She was crying loudly. (Alice, but possibly Martha too)
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2021-05-20 11:58:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
[]
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by krw
And once we stop believing in the characters all is lost. And that
Agreed. When Alice started showing signs - a few years ago, when she
started behaving excessively at parties etc. - I found it out of
character; I'd thought her an intelligent and fairly sensible person.
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by krw
comes on top of Peggy not mentioning Alice's drink problems to he
daughter. She would not have kept it quiet, sorry, she knows the
dangers and would have confided in Jenny.
She nuggering well tried to tell Jenny but the SWs did an interrupted
Yes, they did, didn't they. As another has said - bad SWs.
Post by Vicky Ayech
conversation thing. Jenny went to succour Alice as she left Chris and
Martha. She was crying loudly. (Alice, but possibly Martha too)
I liked the phonebox reference (-:
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

... social media's tendency to knock on front doors and run away.
Andrew Collins, RT 2017/8/5-11
John Ashby
2021-05-20 12:05:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mike McMillan
Post by Mike McMillan
Post by Serena Blanchflower
Post by Vicky Ayech
Was that a brick through the glass door or did Alice drive her car
into the shop?   I thought Jim reasonable and I think I'd have sold
Alice the vodka. You can't control an alcoholic. They have to do it
themself. She needs professional help. I can't help feeling Susan
loved that ability to deny Alice the bottle.
My money is on it having been an empty vodka bottle (she may well keep
her stash of empties hidden in the car), as I didn't hear any sign of a
car engine.
I don't think I'd have sold her the vodka.  As you say, you can't
control an alcoholic but you don't have to enable them, either.
Selling
her the vodka could well help to reinforce her belief that she doesn't
really have a problem.
I agree that she needs professional help but, at the moment[1], she
isn't prepared to admit that she's got a problem and that she needs any
help at all, professional or otherwise.  Until she does, there's very
little that anyone can do to help her.
[1]  Hopefully, this might just change when she has to face the
consequences of this evening's outburst.
I’m beginning to feel the simplest solution may be that off-button:-(((
Yes, I know that Aunty has to do ‘issshooos’ but, why can’t TA just be an
everyday story about country folk?
Do we really think that Alice would actually behave like that?  I don't,
no matter how much she has had to drink and not knowing what she did.
Given the clear evidence that she was polite and reasonable throughout
her discussion with Jim I would posit she had had some alcohol - but not
anywhere near enough to ruin her excellent demonstration of reasoning
and the arguing of the safer solution of selling her alcohol and she was
not slurring her words or acting drunk.  Given that state of mind she
might be angry and she might be "bangry" - booze/angry - but she would
not result to destruction.
She seems to be developing a (layman's) paranoia focusing on the Carter
family, so the act of (presumed) window smashing is a response to
Susan's "persecution" of her.
And once we stop believing in the characters all is lost.  And that
comes on top of Peggy not mentioning Alice's drink problems to he
daughter.  She would not have kept it quiet, sorry, she knows the
dangers and would have confided in Jenny.
This I agree with. Either that or taken a much more active part in
managing Alice, even at her advanced age. And a grandmother can be more
effective than a mother in those circumstances.

john
Penny
2021-05-20 09:07:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 19 May 2021 21:46:20 +0100, Serena Blanchflower
Post by Serena Blanchflower
I agree that she needs professional help but, at the moment[1], she
isn't prepared to admit that she's got a problem and that she needs any
help at all, professional or otherwise. Until she does, there's very
little that anyone can do to help her.
She's going backwards. She has acknowledged the problem and has been
beating herself up about her own worthlessness when she fails to do what
she knows she should.

Then she had a week of Effer doing her Julian of Norwich bit 'All shall be
well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.'
Generally playing it down so she's slipped back into the other lies which
have sustained her so far. The worst lies are the ones you tell yourself.
Post by Serena Blanchflower
[1] Hopefully, this might just change when she has to face the
consequences of this evening's outburst.
That would be good but the Aldridges don't really believe the truth yet and
will continue to defend her against the Horridbins/Carters/Grundys because
we all know what dreadful people they are.

Jim's logical approach was interesting but probably not helpful.

I'm annoyed by the interrupted thing Peggy was trying to say - largely
because I can't recall what happened at New Year. Can anyone help?
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
krw
2021-05-20 11:02:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Penny
I'm annoyed by the interrupted thing Peggy was trying to say - largely
because I can't recall what happened at New Year. Can anyone help?
Peggy warned Chris at New Year that she was aware of Alice's problem and
that he needed to tell people because of the damage an alcoholic can do.
He told Peggy not to worry as she was getting help.
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2021-05-20 12:20:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by krw
Post by Penny
I'm annoyed by the interrupted thing Peggy was trying to say - largely
because I can't recall what happened at New Year. Can anyone help?
Peggy warned Chris at New Year that she was aware of Alice's problem
and that he needed to tell people because of the damage an alcoholic
can do. He told Peggy not to worry as she was getting help.
As has been clarified to me, detox versus treatment. I think where she
went was just detox - places which, usually at great expense (and
perhaps with limited success?), try to "detoxify" - i. e. ensure that
when you leave, there isn't any of the drug of choice in your body;
this, even if successful, won't do anything for the addiction, which is
a mental matter. (Not entirely even that: many drug addictions remain as
a physical "need", even when the body is temporarily free of them.)

Chris - and Alice, though I suspect she was beyond caring - might have
genuinely believed that detox would actually work. I don't think detox
organisations work very hard to dispel that impression.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

... social media's tendency to knock on front doors and run away.
Andrew Collins, RT 2017/8/5-11
Serena Blanchflower
2021-05-21 09:29:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
As has been clarified to me, detox versus treatment. I think where she
went was just detox - places which, usually at great expense (and
perhaps with limited success?), try to "detoxify" - i. e. ensure that
when you leave, there isn't any of the drug of choice in your body;
this, even if successful, won't do anything for the addiction, which is
a mental matter. (Not entirely even that: many drug addictions remain as
a physical "need", even when the body is temporarily free of them.)
I think detox is pretty successful, so far as it goes, at drying someone
out without the withdrawal symptoms killing them. As you say, it
doesn't do anything to fix the underlying problem though. Further
treatment is needed for that.
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Chris - and Alice, though I suspect she was beyond caring - might have
genuinely believed that detox would actually work. I don't think detox
organisations work very hard to dispel that impression.
Alice's detox did work, in that she came home sober and no longer raving
from delirium tremens. The GP had spelt out to them, and it seems safe
to assume that the clinic will have also made this clear to Alice, that
this is only the first step and that she will need further support to
deal with her addiction.

She had also been pointed at a local support group (AA by any other
name), to help her deal with her addiction. There are few, if any,
residential rehab places available on the NHS so, for most addicts,
support groups are all that's available. It's quite possible though
that either Peggy or Brian will pay for Alice to go into their local
Priory, or similar, to get more intensive help.
--
Best wishes, Serena
Prison is just one word to you, but for some people, it’s a whole sentence.
Vicky Ayech
2021-05-21 10:44:18 UTC
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On Fri, 21 May 2021 10:29:47 +0100, Serena Blanchflower
Post by Serena Blanchflower
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
As has been clarified to me, detox versus treatment. I think where she
went was just detox - places which, usually at great expense (and
perhaps with limited success?), try to "detoxify" - i. e. ensure that
when you leave, there isn't any of the drug of choice in your body;
this, even if successful, won't do anything for the addiction, which is
a mental matter. (Not entirely even that: many drug addictions remain as
a physical "need", even when the body is temporarily free of them.)
I think detox is pretty successful, so far as it goes, at drying someone
out without the withdrawal symptoms killing them. As you say, it
doesn't do anything to fix the underlying problem though. Further
treatment is needed for that.
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Chris - and Alice, though I suspect she was beyond caring - might have
genuinely believed that detox would actually work. I don't think detox
organisations work very hard to dispel that impression.
Alice's detox did work, in that she came home sober and no longer raving
from delirium tremens. The GP had spelt out to them, and it seems safe
to assume that the clinic will have also made this clear to Alice, that
this is only the first step and that she will need further support to
deal with her addiction.
She had also been pointed at a local support group (AA by any other
name), to help her deal with her addiction. There are few, if any,
residential rehab places available on the NHS so, for most addicts,
support groups are all that's available. It's quite possible though
that either Peggy or Brian will pay for Alice to go into their local
Priory, or similar, to get more intensive help.
Helen went to some place, didn't she? For anorexia. I suppose that
would not also deal with Alcoholism?
Serena Blanchflower
2021-05-21 15:33:06 UTC
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Post by Vicky Ayech
Helen went to some place, didn't she? For anorexia. I suppose that
would not also deal with Alcoholism?
It might but it would be very unlikely that the NHS would fund Alice (or
anyone else) for treatment there.

Many years ago, my latex husband[1] had a spell in the local Priory
(courtesy of my employer's health insurance) to attempt to dry him out
and rehabilitate him. I remember that they had a ward for eating
disorders and a few of the anorexics joined the alcoholics for their
sessions as they found the 12-step programme helpful for anorexia, as
well as for alcoholism and other addictions.


[1] His alcoholism was the main reason for him becoming both an ex and,
subsequently, a late husbad.
--
Best wishes, Serena
It does not do to leave a live dragon out of your calculations, if you
live near him. (J. R. R. Tolkien)
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2021-05-20 12:10:41 UTC
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Post by Vicky Ayech
On Wed, 19 May 2021 21:46:20 +0100, Serena Blanchflower
[]
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Serena Blanchflower
[1] Hopefully, this might just change when she has to face the
consequences of this evening's outburst.
That would be good but the Aldridges don't really believe the truth yet and
will continue to defend her against the Horridbins/Carters/Grundys because
we all know what dreadful people they are.
In this case, should it come to witnesses, a third party - whom I think
the legal system would find trustworthy - was present.
Post by Vicky Ayech
Jim's logical approach was interesting but probably not helpful.
An impossible situation. It wasn't clear to me (probably will be
clarified tonight) whether Alice's car was just outside, or at her home;
if it was just outside (i. e. she'd come by car), then even selling her
the vodka wouldn't really ensure she wouldn't drive; if it wasn't in
evidence, then there's _some_ justification for the argument. (Though on
balance he probably shouldn't have sold it to her - if she then drove,
it arguably wouldn't directly be his fault.)

As another has said, we heard no engine before the smashing noise.
[]
It also brings home how imperilled shop-workers are in such
circumstances. (In urban as well as rural situations.) Had Susan not
materialised, and Alice got violent, it could have got nasty. (OK, it
has got nasty anyway, but I meant for Jim.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

... social media's tendency to knock on front doors and run away.
Andrew Collins, RT 2017/8/5-11
Philip Hole
2021-05-20 17:55:21 UTC
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Post by Penny
Jim's logical approach was interesting but probably not helpful.
Jim's logical approach would probably have been extended further.
He would have offered to take Alice to buy the vodka.

Alice would have got her vodka.
There was no risk of her needing to drive.
She had been refused at the shop and so would not expect to succeed next
time. Precedent rules.
What ever happened to the window would not have happened.
--
Flop
Mike McMillan
2021-05-20 07:06:07 UTC
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Post by Vicky Ayech
Was that a brick through the glass door or did Alice drive her car
into the shop? I thought Jim reasonable and I think I'd have sold
Alice the vodka. You can't control an alcoholic. They have to do it
themself. She needs professional help. I can't help feeling Susan
loved that ability to deny Alice the bottle.
Yesterday the naughty SWs used that old interrupted conversation thing
with Peggy and jenefer. Bad SWs.
I wonder if Allisss would notice if a bottle of vodka was diluted 50/50
with antifreeze?
--
Toodle Pip (My other iPad is an old Pro)
Mike Ruddock
2021-05-20 09:33:53 UTC
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Post by Vicky Ayech
Was that a brick through the glass door or did Alice drive her car
into the shop? I thought Jim reasonable and I think I'd have sold
Alice the vodka. You can't control an alcoholic. They have to do it
themself. She needs professional help. I can't help feeling Susan
loved that ability to deny Alice the bottle.
Yesterday the naughty SWs used that old interrupted conversation thing
with Peggy and jenefer. Bad SWs.
Why did it not occur to either Jim or Susan to phone Chris, Jennifer or
Brian?

Mike Ruddock
Jim Easterbrook
2021-05-20 09:43:14 UTC
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Post by Mike Ruddock
Was that a brick through the glass door or did Alice drive her car into
the shop? I thought Jim reasonable and I think I'd have sold Alice
the vodka. You can't control an alcoholic. They have to do it themself.
She needs professional help. I can't help feeling Susan loved that
ability to deny Alice the bottle.
Yesterday the naughty SWs used that old interrupted conversation thing
with Peggy and jenefer. Bad SWs.
Why did it not occur to either Jim or Susan to phone Chris, Jennifer or
Brian?
Because they had enough problems already.
--
Jim <http://www.jim-easterbrook.me.uk/>
1959/1985? M B+ G+ A L- I- S- P-- CH0(p) Ar++ T+ H0 Q--- Sh0
Nick Odell
2021-05-20 10:02:48 UTC
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On 20 May 2021 09:43:14 GMT, Jim Easterbrook
Post by Jim Easterbrook
Post by Mike Ruddock
Was that a brick through the glass door or did Alice drive her car into
the shop? I thought Jim reasonable and I think I'd have sold Alice
the vodka. You can't control an alcoholic. They have to do it themself.
She needs professional help. I can't help feeling Susan loved that
ability to deny Alice the bottle.
Yesterday the naughty SWs used that old interrupted conversation thing
with Peggy and jenefer. Bad SWs.
Why did it not occur to either Jim or Susan to phone Chris, Jennifer or
Brian?
Because they had enough problems already.
I agree. This is possibly the first time I've felt any sympathy for
Susan who I thought was really trying her best. As was Jim, but I've
often felt sympathy for him. But Alice was so in-yer-face all the time
that IMO there was just no space to step back or out to make a call.

Nick
Penny
2021-05-20 11:44:02 UTC
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On Thu, 20 May 2021 11:02:48 +0100, Nick Odell
Post by Nick Odell
But Alice was so in-yer-face all the time
that IMO there was just no space to step back or out to make a call.
She was coming across as the arch villain, even without a moustache to
twirl*.

*Though one of the advantages of mask-wearing is, nobody knows if you have
a moustache.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Mike McMillan
2021-05-20 11:47:29 UTC
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Post by Penny
On Thu, 20 May 2021 11:02:48 +0100, Nick Odell
Post by Nick Odell
But Alice was so in-yer-face all the time
that IMO there was just no space to step back or out to make a call.
She was coming across as the arch villain, even without a moustache to
twirl*.
*Though one of the advantages of mask-wearing is, nobody knows if you have
a moustache.
Then perhaps someone would care to whisker away please.
--
Toodle Pip (My other iPad is an old Pro)
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