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On T: Letter in today's Times
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BrritSki
2021-06-24 12:29:05 UTC
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Sir, By watching three episodes of Clarkson’s Farm (news, Jun 19) I have
learnt more about farming than I have from listening to The Archers for
50 years. Perhaps Ambridge could extend a guest appearance to Jeremy?
His enthusiasm for his subject is infectious and might invigorate the cast.
Richard Falconer, Riba
Painswick, Glos
BrritSki
2021-06-24 12:36:32 UTC
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Post by BrritSki
Sir, By watching three episodes of Clarkson’s Farm (news, Jun 19) I have
learnt more about farming than I have from listening to The Archers for
50 years. Perhaps Ambridge could extend a guest appearance to Jeremy?
His enthusiasm for his subject is infectious and might invigorate the cast.
Richard Falconer, Riba
Painswick, Glos
And 2 more on a recent theme:

SAY THAT AGAIN
Sir, Your list of mispronunciations (news and Thunderer, Jun 23) omits
the one that irritates me most: “pronounciation” instead of
“pronunciation”. It is closely followed in my own list of annoying
errors by the use of “disinterested” when the speaker means
“uninterested”. I also once worked with a chap who insisted on saying
“irregardless”. I never had the heart to correct him.
Islwyn David
Brecon, Powys

Sir, Reading Oliver Kamm’s Thunderer about mispronunciation reminds me
of a conversation upon which I eavesdropped years ago on the Tube, when
two young men were discussing a potential new romantic relationship:
“So, how’s it going with her — is she ‘the one’?”

“No, it’s just plutonic.”
Tim Wright
Lincoln
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2021-06-24 13:10:37 UTC
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Post by BrritSki
Post by BrritSki
Sir, By watching three episodes of Clarkson’s Farm (news, Jun 19) I
have learnt more about farming than I have from listening to The
Archers for 50 years. Perhaps Ambridge could extend a guest
appearance to Jeremy? His enthusiasm for his subject is infectious
and might invigorate the cast.
SWs (or ASA - though I think that title has changed lately).
Post by BrritSki
Post by BrritSki
Richard Falconer, Riba
Hmm, architect. Perhaps he could comment on some of Ambridge's flexible
housing!
(Whenever I see RIBA, I can't help thinking of a certain cartoon
mouse..)
Post by BrritSki
Post by BrritSki
Painswick, Glos
SAY THAT AGAIN
Sir, Your list of mispronunciations (news and Thunderer, Jun 23) omits
the one that irritates me most: “pronounciation” instead of
“pronunciation”. It is closely followed in my own list of annoying
+1
Post by BrritSki
errors by the use of “disinterested” when the speaker means
“uninterested”. I also once worked with a chap who insisted on
saying “irregardless”. I never had the heart to correct him.
It's difficult when it's someone you work with; the one I did kept
saying "mute point".
Post by BrritSki
Islwyn David
Brecon, Powys
Sir, Reading Oliver Kamm’s Thunderer about mispronunciation reminds
me of a conversation upon which I eavesdropped years ago on the Tube,
when two young men were discussing a potential new romantic
relationship: “So, how’s it going with her — is she ‘the one’?”
“No, it’s just plutonic.”
Tim Wright
Lincoln
Very deep.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Who can refute a sneer? - Archdeacon Paley, in his book Moral Philosophy
Sid Nuncius
2021-06-24 16:06:09 UTC
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Post by BrritSki
SAY THAT AGAIN
Sir, Your list of mispronunciations (news and Thunderer, Jun 23) omits
the one that irritates me most: “pronounciation” instead of
“pronunciation”. It is closely followed in my own list of annoying
errors by the use of “disinterested” when the speaker means
“uninterested”. I also once worked with a chap who insisted on saying
“irregardless”. I never had the heart to correct him.
Islwyn David
Brecon, Powys
Sir, Reading Oliver Kamm’s Thunderer about mispronunciation reminds me
of a conversation upon which I eavesdropped years ago on the Tube, when
“So, how’s it going with her — is she ‘the one’?”
“No, it’s just plutonic.”
I was going to add something, but I'm reticent[1] to start this topic
off again.


[1]I *hate* that one.
--
Sid
(Make sure Matron is away when you reply)
Mike McMillan
2021-06-24 16:32:19 UTC
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Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by BrritSki
SAY THAT AGAIN
Sir, Your list of mispronunciations (news and Thunderer, Jun 23) omits
the one that irritates me most: “pronounciation” instead of
“pronunciation”. It is closely followed in my own list of annoying
errors by the use of “disinterested” when the speaker means
“uninterested”. I also once worked with a chap who insisted on saying
“irregardless”. I never had the heart to correct him.
Islwyn David
Brecon, Powys
Sir, Reading Oliver Kamm’s Thunderer about mispronunciation reminds me
of a conversation upon which I eavesdropped years ago on the Tube, when
“So, how’s it going with her — is she ‘the one’?”
“No, it’s just plutonic.”
I was going to add something, but I'm reticent[1] to start this topic
off again.
[1]I *hate* that one.
Even some electronic components have reluctance…
--
Toddle Pip, Mike McMillan
steve hague
2021-06-25 06:50:34 UTC
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Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by BrritSki
SAY THAT AGAIN
Sir, Your list of mispronunciations (news and Thunderer, Jun 23) omits
the one that irritates me most: “pronounciation” instead of
“pronunciation”. It is closely followed in my own list of annoying
errors by the use of “disinterested” when the speaker means
“uninterested”. I also once worked with a chap who insisted on saying
“irregardless”. I never had the heart to correct him.
Islwyn David
Brecon, Powys
Sir, Reading Oliver Kamm’s Thunderer about mispronunciation reminds me
of a conversation upon which I eavesdropped years ago on the Tube,
when two young men were discussing a potential new romantic
relationship: “So, how’s it going with her — is she ‘the one’?”
“No, it’s just plutonic.”
I was going to add something, but I'm reticent[1] to start this topic
off again.
[1]I *hate* that one.
I'm unwilling to comment, so won't.
DavidK
2021-06-25 15:42:28 UTC
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Post by Sid Nuncius
I was going to add something, but I'm reticent[1] to start this topic
off again.
I'll bite, what's wrong with that?
<https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=define%3Areticent>

<https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/can-reticent-mean-reluctant>
Sid Nuncius
2021-06-25 17:29:26 UTC
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Post by DavidK
Post by Sid Nuncius
I was going to add something, but I'm reticent[1] to start this topic
off again.
I'll bite, what's wrong with that?
<https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=define%3Areticent>
<https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/can-reticent-mean-reluctant>
I stand corrected. I thought that reticent meant disinclined to speak
about something and reluctant simply meant unwilling. If reticent is
now considered a synonym for reluctant, so be it.

(I still hate it.)
--
Sid
(Make sure Matron is away when you reply)
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2021-06-25 23:21:11 UTC
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Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by DavidK
Post by Sid Nuncius
I was going to add something, but I'm reticent[1] to start this
topic off again.
I'll bite, what's wrong with that?
[]
Post by Sid Nuncius
I stand corrected. I thought that reticent meant disinclined to speak
about something and reluctant simply meant unwilling. If reticent is
now considered a synonym for reluctant, so be it.
(I still hate it.)
I'm with you Sid - they're definitely not synonyms, though are of
similar meaning. I'm not sure I could ever say "reticent to"; "reticent
about", I could. I think "reticent" means a person who is quiet, does
not speak out - in general or about something specific; I feel it mainly
relates to speech, or other means of communication. Without checking, I
feel it's related to "retain" - someone who holds something in. I feel
it's more a word one would use about someone else than about oneself.
"Reluctant", on the other hand, I'd almost always expect to be followed
by "to", and not limit it to speech, but any action - some celebrities
would be reluctant to eat bugs in the jungle, and I'm reluctant to
exercise. It _can_ be applied to speech of course: I'd say "reluctant to
discuss" and "reticent about" are similar, though with subtle nuances of
difference. (This is why TEFL is such a challenge!)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

The losses on both sides at Borodino [1812], 70 miles from Moscow, are the
equivalent of a jumbo jet crashing into an area of six square miles every five
minutes for the whole ten hours of the battle, killing or wounding everyone on
board. - Andrew Roberts on Napoleon, RT 2015/6/13-19
DavidK
2021-06-26 14:32:22 UTC
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Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Sid Nuncius
I was going to add something, but I'm reticent[1] to start this
topic  off again.
 I'll bite, what's wrong with that?
[]
I stand corrected.  I thought that reticent meant disinclined to speak
about something and reluctant simply meant unwilling.  If reticent is
now considered a synonym for reluctant, so be it.
(I still hate it.)
I'm with you Sid - they're definitely not synonyms, though are of
similar meaning. I'm not sure I could ever say "reticent to"; "reticent
about", I could. I think "reticent" means a person who is quiet, does
not speak out - in general or about something specific; I feel it mainly
relates to speech, or other means of communication. Without checking, I
feel it's related to "retain" - someone who holds something in. I feel
it's more a word one would use about someone else than about oneself.
"Reluctant", on the other hand, I'd almost always expect to be followed
by "to", and not limit it to speech, but any action - some celebrities
would be reluctant to eat bugs in the jungle, and I'm reluctant to
exercise. It _can_ be applied to speech of course: I'd say "reluctant to
discuss" and "reticent about" are similar, though with subtle nuances of
difference. (This is why TEFL is such a challenge!)
I would probably choose reluctant too. I wonder if it's yet another
example of the debasement of the language by the vernacular becoming
acceptable.

Other examples that annoy my inner pedant are
expect vs anticipate
lest vs "in case of"
Sally Thompson
2021-06-26 15:40:51 UTC
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Post by DavidK
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Sid Nuncius
I was going to add something, but I'm reticent[1] to start this
topic  off again.
 I'll bite, what's wrong with that?
[]
I stand corrected.  I thought that reticent meant disinclined to speak
about something and reluctant simply meant unwilling.  If reticent is
now considered a synonym for reluctant, so be it.
(I still hate it.)
I'm with you Sid - they're definitely not synonyms, though are of
similar meaning. I'm not sure I could ever say "reticent to"; "reticent
about", I could. I think "reticent" means a person who is quiet, does
not speak out - in general or about something specific; I feel it mainly
relates to speech, or other means of communication. Without checking, I
feel it's related to "retain" - someone who holds something in. I feel
it's more a word one would use about someone else than about oneself.
"Reluctant", on the other hand, I'd almost always expect to be followed
by "to", and not limit it to speech, but any action - some celebrities
would be reluctant to eat bugs in the jungle, and I'm reluctant to
exercise. It _can_ be applied to speech of course: I'd say "reluctant to
discuss" and "reticent about" are similar, though with subtle nuances of
difference. (This is why TEFL is such a challenge!)
I would probably choose reluctant too. I wonder if it's yet another
example of the debasement of the language by the vernacular becoming
acceptable.
Other examples that annoy my inner pedant are
expect vs anticipate
lest vs "in case of"
Much seen on Facebook is confusion between wandering and wondering, viz "I
saw this chicken wondering in the road". I am sooo tempted to ask what it
was wondering about. Presumably whether to cross or not.
--
Sally in Shropshire, UK
krw
2021-06-26 16:04:33 UTC
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Post by Sally Thompson
Much seen on Facebook
Reading almost anything on Facebook makes me believe that recent English
teaching is very poor.
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
Penny
2021-06-26 20:01:27 UTC
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On Sat, 26 Jun 2021 17:04:33 +0100, krw <***@whitnet.uk> scrawled in the
dust...
Post by krw
Post by Sally Thompson
Much seen on Facebook
Reading almost anything on Facebook makes me believe that recent English
teaching is very poor.
Predictive text is a curse that keeps on giving.
Early in the pandemic I lost my (usually good) ability to spell - I blamed
continuing low-level stress. I now find predictive text offers me misspelt
words.

However, from my long list of facebook howlers from others, I offer just
two - my memory is still a bit scrambled.
as a pose to
For sale - Chester draws
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Min
2021-06-27 00:03:20 UTC
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Post by Penny
For sale - Chester draws
Does Chester know someone's selling his undies?
--
Min
Mike McMillan
2021-06-27 07:46:18 UTC
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Post by Penny
dust...
Post by krw
Post by Sally Thompson
Much seen on Facebook
Reading almost anything on Facebook makes me believe that recent English
teaching is very poor.
Predictive text is a curse that keeps on giving.
Early in the pandemic I lost my (usually good) ability to spell - I blamed
continuing low-level stress. I now find predictive text offers me misspelt
words.
However, from my long list of facebook howlers from others, I offer just
two - my memory is still a bit scrambled.
as a pose to
For sale - Chester draws
I read that whilst sitting on our Chester Field.
--
Toddle Pip, Mike McMillan
Jenny M Benson
2021-06-27 09:38:44 UTC
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Post by Penny
For sale - Chester draws
First saw that one on a card in a shop window in the 1960's.

It surprised me then. It doesn't any more - I would of thought it quite
prevalent nowadays.
--
Jenny M Benson
Wrexham, UK
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2021-06-27 11:27:35 UTC
Reply
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Post by Jenny M Benson
Post by Penny
For sale - Chester draws
First saw that one on a card in a shop window in the 1960's.
It surprised me then. It doesn't any more - I would of thought it
quite prevalent nowadays.
WOULD OF?!? [Sorry, but in this thread ... (-:]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"... four Oscars, and two further nominations ... On these criteria, he's
Britain's most successful film director." Powell or Pressburger? no; Richard
Attenborough? no; Nick Park!
steve hague
2021-06-27 12:58:26 UTC
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Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Jenny M Benson
Post by Penny
For sale - Chester draws
First saw that one on a card in a shop window in the 1960's.
It surprised me then.  It doesn't any more - I would of thought it
quite prevalent nowadays.
WOULD OF?!? [Sorry, but in this thread ... (-:]
I think you just had a woosh! moment John.
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2021-06-27 15:19:17 UTC
Reply
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Post by steve hague
On Sun, 27 Jun 2021 at 10:38:44, Jenny M Benson
Post by Jenny M Benson
Post by Penny
For sale - Chester draws
First saw that one on a card in a shop window in the 1960's.
It surprised me then.  It doesn't any more - I would of thought it
quite prevalent nowadays.
WOULD OF?!? [Sorry, but in this thread ... (-:]
I think you just had a woosh! moment John.
I did _wonder_ if it was deliberate. UMRA will know that I often make a
good straight man by not "getting" such things.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

It is complete loose-stool-water, it is arse-gravy of the worst kind
- Stephen Fry on "The Da Vinci Code"
Peter
2021-06-27 17:32:22 UTC
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Post by Jenny M Benson
Post by Penny
For sale - Chester draws
First saw that one on a card in a shop window in the 1960's.
Next to 'strict French lessons'?
Post by Jenny M Benson
It surprised me then.  It doesn't any more - I would of thought it quite
prevalent nowadays.
--
The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here
Abraham Lincoln at Gettysburg
John Armstrong
2021-06-28 08:24:14 UTC
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On Sun, 27 Jun 2021 10:38:44 +0100, Jenny M Benson
Post by Jenny M Benson
Post by Penny
For sale - Chester draws
First saw that one on a card in a shop window in the 1960's.
It surprised me then. It doesn't any more - I would of thought it quite
prevalent nowadays.
I think those errors arrive in part from a tendency I have seen to
insert an 'r' into words where none is required, and to remove it
where it is. For example, "peninsular". This is of course a word, but
I have often seen it used where "peninsula" would have been correct.
Similarly, "karma". This is a word too, but I have seen it used where
"kama" would have been correct.

I may be wrong, but I suspect non-rhotic speakers may be more prone to
these errors.
Chris J Dixon
2021-06-28 08:53:19 UTC
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Post by John Armstrong
I think those errors arrive in part from a tendency I have seen to
insert an 'r' into words where none is required, and to remove it
where it is. For example, "peninsular".
Isn't it strange how the mind works?

For years, I thought that constonant was the term for non-vowels,
and that expresso was a type of coffee (not that I have ever
drunk one). OTOH, a colleague always missed the first "t" in
detritus.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham
'48/33 M B+ G++ A L(-) I S-- CH0(--)(p) Ar- T+ H0 ?Q
***@cdixon.me.uk @ChrisJDixon1
Plant amazing Acers.
Philip Hole
2021-06-28 10:16:37 UTC
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Post by Chris J Dixon
Post by John Armstrong
I think those errors arrive in part from a tendency I have seen to
insert an 'r' into words where none is required, and to remove it
where it is. For example, "peninsular".
Isn't it strange how the mind works?
For years, I thought that constonant was the term for non-vowels,
and that expresso was a type of coffee (not that I have ever
drunk one). OTOH, a colleague always missed the first "t" in
detritus.
Chris
During a church reading from the Bible, I had an unfortunate slip of the
tongue.



Psalms 49:3

"My mouth will speak words of wisdom; the meditation of my heart will
give you understanding."
--
Flop
Chris J Dixon
2021-06-28 10:25:33 UTC
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Post by Philip Hole
During a church reading from the Bible, I had an unfortunate slip of the
tongue.
Psalms 49:3
"My mouth will speak words of wisdom; the meditation of my heart will
give you understanding."
An ill wind?

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham
'48/33 M B+ G++ A L(-) I S-- CH0(--)(p) Ar- T+ H0 ?Q
***@cdixon.me.uk @ChrisJDixon1
Plant amazing Acers.
Penny
2021-06-28 15:00:11 UTC
Reply
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On Mon, 28 Jun 2021 09:24:14 +0100, John Armstrong <***@blueyonder.co.uk>
scrawled in the dust...
Post by John Armstrong
This is of course a word, but
I have often seen it used where "peninsula" would have been correct.
Similarly, "karma". This is a word too, but I have seen it used where
"kama" would have been correct.
I meet similar errors which have nothing to do with 'r'. The most recent
was 'prophesy' in place of 'prophecy' - there are other common verb/noun
errors which US English has done away with by spelling both the same
practise/practice, license/licence and advise/advice - the last pair being
the key for me to disentangle the others. I blame browsers which set US
English as the default spell check.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Sally Thompson
2021-06-27 08:04:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by krw
Post by Sally Thompson
Much seen on Facebook
Reading almost anything on Facebook makes me believe that recent English
teaching is very poor.
Indeed.
--
Sally in Shropshire, UK
Chris
2021-06-26 17:41:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sally Thompson
Post by DavidK
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Sid Nuncius
I was going to add something, but I'm reticent[1] to start this
topic  off again.
 I'll bite, what's wrong with that?
[]
I stand corrected.  I thought that reticent meant disinclined to speak
about something and reluctant simply meant unwilling.  If reticent is
now considered a synonym for reluctant, so be it.
(I still hate it.)
I'm with you Sid - they're definitely not synonyms, though are of
similar meaning. I'm not sure I could ever say "reticent to"; "reticent
about", I could. I think "reticent" means a person who is quiet, does
not speak out - in general or about something specific; I feel it mainly
relates to speech, or other means of communication. Without checking, I
feel it's related to "retain" - someone who holds something in. I feel
it's more a word one would use about someone else than about oneself.
"Reluctant", on the other hand, I'd almost always expect to be followed
by "to", and not limit it to speech, but any action - some celebrities
would be reluctant to eat bugs in the jungle, and I'm reluctant to
exercise. It _can_ be applied to speech of course: I'd say "reluctant to
discuss" and "reticent about" are similar, though with subtle nuances of
difference. (This is why TEFL is such a challenge!)
I would probably choose reluctant too. I wonder if it's yet another
example of the debasement of the language by the vernacular becoming
acceptable.
Other examples that annoy my inner pedant are
expect vs anticipate
lest vs "in case of"
Much seen on Facebook is confusion between wandering and wondering, viz "I
saw this chicken wondering in the road". I am sooo tempted to ask what it
was wondering about. Presumably whether to cross or not.
Lazy typing I suspect

Sincerely Chris
Clive Arthur
2021-06-28 15:28:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On 26/06/2021 15:32, DavidK wrote:

<snip>
Post by DavidK
Other examples that annoy my inner pedant are
expect vs anticipate
lest vs "in case of"
My betnwar is /'til/. I suppose it's a contraction of /until/, but
what's wrong with /till/?
--
Cheers
Clive
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2021-06-28 16:05:23 UTC
Reply
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Post by Clive Arthur
<snip>
Post by DavidK
Other examples that annoy my inner pedant are
expect vs anticipate
lest vs "in case of"
My betnwar is /'til/. I suppose it's a contraction of /until/, but
what's wrong with /till/?
It's a bit earthy - but you plough your own furrow ...
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

The early worm gets the bird.
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