Discussion:
canterbury : a very long tale!
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Chris McMillan
2018-11-01 19:13:54 UTC
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Have already lost the will to live. I remember these with horror.

Sincerely Chris
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-11-01 19:22:39 UTC
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Post by Chris McMillan
Have already lost the will to live. I remember these with horror.
Sincerely Chris
They never particularly appealed to me either (though I don't think they
happened to coincide with my year), but how much of your remembered
horror was due to doing them in mediæval English - if you did, that is?
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Air conditioned environment - Do not open Windows.
SODAM
2018-11-01 19:39:35 UTC
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Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Chris McMillan
Have already lost the will to live. I remember these with horror.
Sincerely Chris
They never particularly appealed to me either (though I don't think they
happened to coincide with my year), but how much of your remembered
horror was due to doing them in mediæval English - if you did, that is?
No horror here. Linda mentioned “The Miller’s Tale” tonight - can’t wait to
see how she tackles that! :-)))
--
SODAM
The thinking umrat’s choice for editor
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-11-01 19:42:53 UTC
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In message
Post by SODAM
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Chris McMillan
Have already lost the will to live. I remember these with horror.
Sincerely Chris
They never particularly appealed to me either (though I don't think they
happened to coincide with my year), but how much of your remembered
horror was due to doing them in mediæval English - if you did, that is?
No horror here. Linda mentioned “The Miller’s Tale” tonight - can’t wait to
see how she tackles that! :-)))
Why, is it bawdy? (If so, Jazzer ...)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Her [Valerie Singleton's] main job on /Blue Peter/ was to stop unpredictable
creatres running amok. And that was just John Noakes.
- Alison Pearson, RT 2014/9/6-12
Sid Nuncius
2018-11-02 08:52:27 UTC
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Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
In message
Post by SODAM
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Chris McMillan
Have already lost the will to live. I remember these with horror.
Sincerely Chris
They never particularly appealed to me either (though I don't think they
happened to coincide with my year), but how much of your remembered
horror was due to doing them in mediæval English - if you did, that is?
No horror here. Linda mentioned “The Miller’s Tale” tonight - can’t wait to
see how she tackles that! :-)))
Why, is it bawdy? (If so, Jazzer ...)
Yes. It involves a rather famously misplaced kiss. There's a synopsis
here if you don't fancy reading the original:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Miller%27s_Tale
--
Sid (Make sure Matron is away when you reply)
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-11-02 10:37:03 UTC
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Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
In message
Post by SODAM
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Chris McMillan
Have already lost the will to live. I remember these with horror.
Sincerely Chris
They never particularly appealed to me either (though I don't think they
happened to coincide with my year), but how much of your remembered
horror was due to doing them in mediæval English - if you did, that is?
No horror here. Linda mentioned “The Miller’s Tale” tonight - can’t wait to
see how she tackles that! :-)))
Why, is it bawdy? (If so, Jazzer ...)
Yes. It involves a rather famously misplaced kiss. There's a synopsis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Miller%27s_Tale
Thanks; a good synopsis, I'd say (not having read the original). Yes,
somewhat unusual for Lyndy, surely? Unless she's been misled by the old
English, which I wouldn't have expected her to be.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Lucy Worsley takes tea in Jane Austen's Regency Bath. - TV "Choices" listing,
RT 2017-5-27
Jim Easterbrook
2018-11-02 11:10:21 UTC
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Post by Sid Nuncius
Yes. It involves a rather famously misplaced kiss. There's a synopsis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Miller%27s_Tale
Interesting that the Trump method of "seduction" is shown to be more
effective than wooing with songs and gifts.
--
Jim <http://www.jim-easterbrook.me.uk/>
1959/1985? M B+ G+ A L- I- S- P-- CH0(p) Ar++ T+ H0 Q--- Sh0
steveski
2018-11-02 01:21:01 UTC
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Post by SODAM
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Chris McMillan
Have already lost the will to live. I remember these with horror.
Sincerely Chris
They never particularly appealed to me either (though I don't think
they happened to coincide with my year), but how much of your
remembered horror was due to doing them in mediæval English - if you
did, that is?
No horror here. Linda mentioned “The Miller’s Tale” tonight - can’t wait
to see how she tackles that! :-)))
Perhaps she'll skip the light fandango.
--
Steveski
Sid Nuncius
2018-11-02 08:54:31 UTC
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Post by steveski
Post by SODAM
No horror here. Linda mentioned “The Miller’s Tale” tonight - can’t wait
to see how she tackles that! :-)))
Perhaps she'll skip the light fandango.
I can just picture her face.
--
Sid (Make sure Matron is away when you reply)
agsmith578688@gmail.com Tony Smith Prestbury Glos.
2018-11-03 19:57:01 UTC
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On Thursday, 1 November 2018 19:39:36 UTC, SODAM wrote:

<snipped>
Post by SODAM
No horror here. Linda mentioned “The Miller’s Tale” tonight - can’t wait to
see how she tackles that! :-)))
Although I know the Miller's Tale, I'm sure we did the Nun's Priest's Tale at school.

We were not put in for the Eng Litt exam, nor for any subjects we proposed to take at A-level (probably the Bursar being frugal) but we studied literature.
Fenny
2018-11-03 22:28:42 UTC
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Post by ***@gmail.com Tony Smith Prestbury Glos.
We were not put in for the Eng Litt exam, nor for any subjects we proposed to take at A-level (probably the Bursar being frugal) but we studied literature.
Ma told me that in her day you only took O levels in the subjects you
weren't continuing for A level.

Although she wasn't actually old enough [1] to take O levels in the
5th form, so had to take them in the L6th.

[1] She took her 11+ a year early and went to grammer school the year
she turned 11, so she was only 15 [2] in the 5th form and not old
enough to be entered for O levels.
[2] OTOH, I took all my O levels in the 4th year and had finished my
exams, done my 6th form induction and finished the school year before
my 15th birthday. I took my A levels a month before I was 17, at
barely 6 weeks older than some of those doing O levels.
--
Fenny
LFS
2018-11-03 22:57:21 UTC
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Post by Fenny
Post by ***@gmail.com Tony Smith Prestbury Glos.
We were not put in for the Eng Litt exam, nor for any subjects we proposed to take at A-level (probably the Bursar being frugal) but we studied literature.
Ma told me that in her day you only took O levels in the subjects you
weren't continuing for A level.
Although she wasn't actually old enough [1] to take O levels in the
5th form, so had to take them in the L6th.
[1] She took her 11+ a year early and went to grammer school the year
she turned 11, so she was only 15 [2] in the 5th form and not old
enough to be entered for O levels.
I didn't think there was any age constraint on O levels. I skipped the
second year at grammar school (they decided that boredom was making me
disruptive) and took 2 O levels at 14 and the other 6 at 15.
Post by Fenny
[2] OTOH, I took all my O levels in the 4th year and had finished my
exams, done my 6th form induction and finished the school year before
my 15th birthday. I took my A levels a month before I was 17, at
barely 6 weeks older than some of those doing O levels.
I took my A levels shortly after my 17th birthday but wasn't allowed to
take up my university place for a year. Gap years were unknown in those
days but I managed to fill it with part-time jobs that taught me a great
deal about the world of work which stood me in good stead later. I have
fond memories of the International Twist Drill Co Ltd in Watery Lane,
Sheffield.
--
Laura (emulate St George for email)
Mike Ruddock
2018-11-04 08:48:25 UTC
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Post by LFS
Post by Fenny
Post by ***@gmail.com Tony Smith Prestbury Glos.
We were not put in for the Eng Litt exam, nor for any subjects we
proposed to take at A-level (probably the Bursar being frugal) but we
studied literature.
Ma told me that in her day you only took O levels in the subjects you
weren't continuing for A level.
Although she wasn't actually old enough [1] to take O levels in the
5th form, so had to take them in the L6th.
[1] She took her 11+ a year early and went to grammer school the year
she turned 11, so she was only 15 [2] in the 5th form and not old
enough to be entered for O levels.
I didn't think there was any age constraint on O levels. I skipped the
second year at grammar school (they decided that boredom was making me
disruptive) and took 2 O levels at 14 and the other 6 at 15.
I believe that there was in the first year or two of GCE. The school I
attended was organised so that some pupils skipped what was then called
the Fourth Form and went straight from Third to Fifth, which was the
exam year. This worked well in the days of School Certificate but when O
level came in the school found that the new boards would not allow a
large number of those in the Fifth year to sit the new exam. I seem to
recall that an exception was made and later on the school stopped using
the accelerated curriculum.

Mike Ruddock
Post by LFS
Post by Fenny
[2] OTOH, I took all my O levels in the 4th year and had finished my
exams, done my 6th form induction and finished the school year before
my 15th birthday.  I took my A levels a month before I was 17, at
barely 6 weeks older than some of those doing O levels.
I took my A levels shortly after my 17th birthday but wasn't allowed to
take up my university place for a year. Gap years were unknown in those
days but I managed to fill it with part-time jobs that taught me a great
deal about the world of work which stood me in good stead later. I have
fond memories of the International Twist Drill Co Ltd in Watery Lane,
Sheffield.
Chris McMillan
2018-11-04 11:41:22 UTC
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Post by Mike Ruddock
Post by LFS
Post by Fenny
Post by ***@gmail.com Tony Smith Prestbury Glos.
We were not put in for the Eng Litt exam, nor for any subjects we
proposed to take at A-level (probably the Bursar being frugal) but we
studied literature.
Ma told me that in her day you only took O levels in the subjects you
weren't continuing for A level.
Although she wasn't actually old enough [1] to take O levels in the
5th form, so had to take them in the L6th.
[1] She took her 11+ a year early and went to grammer school the year
she turned 11, so she was only 15 [2] in the 5th form and not old
enough to be entered for O levels.
I didn't think there was any age constraint on O levels. I skipped the
second year at grammar school (they decided that boredom was making me
disruptive) and took 2 O levels at 14 and the other 6 at 15.
I believe that there was in the first year or two of GCE. The school I
attended was organised so that some pupils skipped what was then called
the Fourth Form and went straight from Third to Fifth, which was the
exam year. This worked well in the days of School Certificate but when O
level came in the school found that the new boards would not allow a
large number of those in the Fifth year to sit the new exam. I seem to
recall that an exception was made and later on the school stopped using
the accelerated curriculum.
Mike Ruddock
Post by LFS
Post by Fenny
[2] OTOH, I took all my O levels in the 4th year and had finished my
exams, done my 6th form induction and finished the school year before
my 15th birthday.  I took my A levels a month before I was 17, at
barely 6 weeks older than some of those doing O levels.
I took my A levels shortly after my 17th birthday but wasn't allowed to
take up my university place for a year. Gap years were unknown in those
days but I managed to fill it with part-time jobs that taught me a great
deal about the world of work which stood me in good stead later. I have
fond memories of the International Twist Drill Co Ltd in Watery Lane,
Sheffield.
I remember TNMF saying he began his degree earlier than usual ....

Sincerely Chris
BrritSki
2018-11-04 13:49:16 UTC
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Post by Chris McMillan
Post by Mike Ruddock
Post by LFS
Post by Fenny
Post by ***@gmail.com Tony Smith Prestbury Glos.
We were not put in for the Eng Litt exam, nor for any subjects we
proposed to take at A-level (probably the Bursar being frugal) but we
studied literature.
Ma told me that in her day you only took O levels in the subjects you
weren't continuing for A level.
Although she wasn't actually old enough [1] to take O levels in the
5th form, so had to take them in the L6th.
[1] She took her 11+ a year early and went to grammer school the year
she turned 11, so she was only 15 [2] in the 5th form and not old
enough to be entered for O levels.
I didn't think there was any age constraint on O levels. I skipped the
second year at grammar school (they decided that boredom was making me
disruptive) and took 2 O levels at 14 and the other 6 at 15.
I believe that there was in the first year or two of GCE. The school I
attended was organised so that some pupils skipped what was then called
the Fourth Form and went straight from Third to Fifth, which was the
exam year. This worked well in the days of School Certificate but when O
level came in the school found that the new boards would not allow a
large number of those in the Fifth year to sit the new exam. I seem to
recall that an exception was made and later on the school stopped using
the accelerated curriculum.
Mike Ruddock
Post by LFS
Post by Fenny
[2] OTOH, I took all my O levels in the 4th year and had finished my
exams, done my 6th form induction and finished the school year before
my 15th birthday.  I took my A levels a month before I was 17, at
barely 6 weeks older than some of those doing O levels.
I took my A levels shortly after my 17th birthday but wasn't allowed to
take up my university place for a year. Gap years were unknown in those
days but I managed to fill it with part-time jobs that taught me a great
deal about the world of work which stood me in good stead later. I have
fond memories of the International Twist Drill Co Ltd in Watery Lane,
Sheffield.
I remember TNMF saying he began his degree earlier than usual ....
Really ? I don't recall that... </sarc>
Rosemary Miskin
2018-11-04 18:28:01 UTC
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I remember TNMF saying he began his degree earlier than usual .... 
Yes - he is younger than me, but was a year ahead.

Rosemary
Fenny
2018-11-04 13:05:08 UTC
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On Sun, 4 Nov 2018 08:48:25 +0000, Mike Ruddock
Post by Mike Ruddock
Post by LFS
I didn't think there was any age constraint on O levels. I skipped the
second year at grammar school (they decided that boredom was making me
disruptive) and took 2 O levels at 14 and the other 6 at 15.
I believe that there was in the first year or two of GCE. The school I
attended was organised so that some pupils skipped what was then called
the Fourth Form and went straight from Third to Fifth, which was the
exam year. This worked well in the days of School Certificate but when O
level came in the school found that the new boards would not allow a
large number of those in the Fifth year to sit the new exam. I seem to
recall that an exception was made and later on the school stopped using
the accelerated curriculum.
Yes, this would have been in the very early years of GCE. Pa did
School Cert, then A levels and Ma would have been 1 or 2 school years
behind him.
--
Fenny
Mike
2018-11-04 09:08:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by LFS
Post by Fenny
Post by ***@gmail.com Tony Smith Prestbury Glos.
We were not put in for the Eng Litt exam, nor for any subjects we
proposed to take at A-level (probably the Bursar being frugal) but we studied literature.
Ma told me that in her day you only took O levels in the subjects you
weren't continuing for A level.
Although she wasn't actually old enough [1] to take O levels in the
5th form, so had to take them in the L6th.
[1] She took her 11+ a year early and went to grammer school the year
she turned 11, so she was only 15 [2] in the 5th form and not old
enough to be entered for O levels.
I didn't think there was any age constraint on O levels. I skipped the
second year at grammar school (they decided that boredom was making me
disruptive) and took 2 O levels at 14 and the other 6 at 15.
Post by Fenny
[2] OTOH, I took all my O levels in the 4th year and had finished my
exams, done my 6th form induction and finished the school year before
my 15th birthday. I took my A levels a month before I was 17, at
barely 6 weeks older than some of those doing O levels.
I took my A levels shortly after my 17th birthday but wasn't allowed to
take up my university place for a year. Gap years were unknown in those
days but I managed to fill it with part-time jobs that taught me a great
deal about the world of work which stood me in good stead later. I have
fond memories of the International Twist Drill Co Ltd in Watery Lane,
Sheffield.
You got the bit between your teeth whilst there?
--
Toodle Pip
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-11-04 09:59:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mike
Post by LFS
Post by Fenny
Post by ***@gmail.com Tony Smith Prestbury Glos.
We were not put in for the Eng Litt exam, nor for any subjects we
proposed to take at A-level (probably the Bursar being frugal) but
we studied literature.
Ma told me that in her day you only took O levels in the subjects you
weren't continuing for A level.
An interesting concept! I can see advantages and disadvantages to it.
[]
Post by Mike
Post by LFS
I didn't think there was any age constraint on O levels. I skipped the
second year at grammar school (they decided that boredom was making me
disruptive) and took 2 O levels at 14 and the other 6 at 15.
[]
Post by Mike
Post by LFS
I took my A levels shortly after my 17th birthday but wasn't allowed to
take up my university place for a year. Gap years were unknown in those
From time to time, we hear of child prodigies (or whatever) who have
gone through all the hoops and entered university at 15 or 14; so either
these rules have been waived, or they never were rules but just
something that schools imposed. Or, exceptions are made, but that seems
a bit unfair.
Post by Mike
Post by LFS
days but I managed to fill it with part-time jobs that taught me a great
deal about the world of work which stood me in good stead later. I have
fond memories of the International Twist Drill Co Ltd in Watery Lane,
Sheffield.
You got the bit between your teeth whilst there?
GROAN!

(Also: I'm very impressed to be in the company of LFS and Fenny who
_did_ do these things only. And don't be modest you two; bask in it for
a change.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"I'm very peachable, if people know how to peach" - Sir David Attenborough (on
being asked if he was tired of being described as impeachable), on Desert
Island Discs, 2012-1-29.
LFS
2018-11-04 17:59:48 UTC
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Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
(Also: I'm very impressed to be in the company of LFS and Fenny who
_did_ do these things only. And don't be modest you two; bask in it for
a change.)
Kind of you to say so, John, but I have never regarded this as much of
an achievement. I was good at remembering and liked sitting exams. The
early promise fizzled out when I got to university and found that higher
education demanded a bit more. I never got past the disruptive tendency,
though.
--
Laura (emulate St George for email)
Mike Headon
2018-11-05 11:15:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by LFS
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
(Also: I'm very impressed to be in the company of LFS and Fenny who
_did_ do these things only. And don't be modest you two; bask in it
for a change.)
Kind of you to say so, John, but I have never regarded this as much of
an achievement. I was good at remembering and liked sitting exams. The
early promise fizzled out when I got to university and found that higher
education demanded a bit more. I never got past the disruptive tendency,
though.
I know the feeling. I went up to Imperial, 1961, Chem. Eng.. I passed
the first year by doing absolutely no work at all. It did not work quite
so well in the second!
--
Mike Headon
R69S R850R
IIIc IIIg FT FTn FT2 EOS450D
e-mail: mike dot headon at enn tee ell world dot com

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Fenny
2018-11-04 20:19:19 UTC
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On Sun, 4 Nov 2018 09:59:44 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
(Also: I'm very impressed to be in the company of LFS and Fenny who
_did_ do these things only. And don't be modest you two; bask in it for
a change.)
For me it had benefits and drawbacks.

Our school offered the students who came in the top 30 in 3rd year
exams the opportunity to do an accelerated O level course and go into
the 6th form a year early. For those who were likely to go to
Oxbridge, it gave the chance to do A levels before the entrance exam.
Of the 30 offered, only 13 took the class in my year.

For me, who wouldn't have been allowed to take my first choice of
subjects, it was a way of moving away from the girls in my year who
bullied me. My view was that if I had to take a set of subjects I
didn't want to do, I'd rather do it in 1 year than 2. Unfortunately,
as we missed out so much of the science syllyabi - we did O level
General Science - doing A level Further Maths and Physics was
completely over my head. Adding in A level French, where we had to
read a bunch of truly tedious books - and analysing books in forrin is
so much worse than being forced to do it in English - I did badly in
the L6th. I dropped Further Maths, but there was no way I wanted to
repeat the year with the same people I'd managed to get away from, so
did badly in my A levels. At least I had a "spare" year to do
retakes, so I went to the local FE college and managed better grades
the second time around.

A better option would have been how they did it at the neighbouring
school - take 4 O levels in the 4th year, then a further 8 in the 5th
year. I could at least have done more subjects I actually wanted to
do but would have had to endure the people who made my life less
happy.
--
Fenny
Chris J Dixon
2018-11-05 09:26:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Fenny
we did O level
General Science - doing A level Further Maths and Physics was
completely over my head.
I have said this before, but simply because I wasn't too keen on
chemistry, my A level subjects were physics, maths and further
maths. That wasn't my best choice - resulting in an A in physics,
E in maths and fail in further maths. This was not a great
surprise, and I had set up my UCCA choices to cope with this.
OTOH it may have been that only with the double exposure to maths
did I get to scrape through at all.

One thing I never realised was how much of a university
engineering course is actually maths. There is just so much that
I never understood, and even the bits I did grasp are lost in the
mists of time. I remember my disappointment, having chosen a
"machines" option in the final year, to be presented with a large
matrix and being told that, for the purposes of this analysis,
the design details were pretty irrelevant, all large machines
reduced to this grid of numbers.

It was also clearly my personal ceiling for physics - I had to
re-sit in my first year at university.

I think I had managed A level on what (to me) seemed like common
sense, and managed to avoid too many proofs. The university focus
was rather different, and additionally I suppose I allowed myself
to think I could get away with less revision than it actually
needed.

Luckily, I managed eventually to find myself in a field where, as
one of the old hands once told me, "All you need is Ohms law and
25 years' experience."

I never had a calculator with buttons more complicated than
square root, and that was quite sufficient for my needs.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham
'48/33 M B+ G++ A L(-) I S-- CH0(--)(p) Ar- T+ H0 ?Q
***@cdixon.me.uk
Plant amazing Acers.
Vicky Ayech
2018-11-05 11:38:42 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Chris J Dixon
Post by Fenny
we did O level
General Science - doing A level Further Maths and Physics was
completely over my head.
I have said this before, but simply because I wasn't too keen on
chemistry, my A level subjects were physics, maths and further
maths. That wasn't my best choice - resulting in an A in physics,
E in maths and fail in further maths. This was not a great
surprise, and I had set up my UCCA choices to cope with this.
OTOH it may have been that only with the double exposure to maths
did I get to scrape through at all.
One thing I never realised was how much of a university
engineering course is actually maths. There is just so much that
I never understood, and even the bits I did grasp are lost in the
mists of time. I remember my disappointment, having chosen a
"machines" option in the final year, to be presented with a large
matrix and being told that, for the purposes of this analysis,
the design details were pretty irrelevant, all large machines
reduced to this grid of numbers.
It was also clearly my personal ceiling for physics - I had to
re-sit in my first year at university.
I think I had managed A level on what (to me) seemed like common
sense, and managed to avoid too many proofs. The university focus
was rather different, and additionally I suppose I allowed myself
to think I could get away with less revision than it actually
needed.
Luckily, I managed eventually to find myself in a field where, as
one of the old hands once told me, "All you need is Ohms law and
25 years' experience."
I never had a calculator with buttons more complicated than
square root, and that was quite sufficient for my needs.
Chris
I really appreciate both those posts. Many umrats are so clever and
were so successful academically that I sometimes feel like an
underachiever.
Mike
2018-11-05 11:48:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Chris J Dixon
Post by Fenny
we did O level
General Science - doing A level Further Maths and Physics was
completely over my head.
I have said this before, but simply because I wasn't too keen on
chemistry, my A level subjects were physics, maths and further
maths. That wasn't my best choice - resulting in an A in physics,
E in maths and fail in further maths. This was not a great
surprise, and I had set up my UCCA choices to cope with this.
OTOH it may have been that only with the double exposure to maths
did I get to scrape through at all.
One thing I never realised was how much of a university
engineering course is actually maths. There is just so much that
I never understood, and even the bits I did grasp are lost in the
mists of time. I remember my disappointment, having chosen a
"machines" option in the final year, to be presented with a large
matrix and being told that, for the purposes of this analysis,
the design details were pretty irrelevant, all large machines
reduced to this grid of numbers.
It was also clearly my personal ceiling for physics - I had to
re-sit in my first year at university.
I think I had managed A level on what (to me) seemed like common
sense, and managed to avoid too many proofs. The university focus
was rather different, and additionally I suppose I allowed myself
to think I could get away with less revision than it actually
needed.
Luckily, I managed eventually to find myself in a field where, as
one of the old hands once told me, "All you need is Ohms law and
25 years' experience."
I never had a calculator with buttons more complicated than
square root, and that was quite sufficient for my needs.
Chris
I really appreciate both those posts. Many umrats are so clever and
were so successful academically that I sometimes feel like an
underachiever.
Don’t worry about it, us underachievers can achieve so much else.;-)))
--
Toodle Pip
LFS
2018-11-05 12:11:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Chris J Dixon
Post by Fenny
we did O level
General Science - doing A level Further Maths and Physics was
completely over my head.
I have said this before, but simply because I wasn't too keen on
chemistry, my A level subjects were physics, maths and further
maths. That wasn't my best choice - resulting in an A in physics,
E in maths and fail in further maths. This was not a great
surprise, and I had set up my UCCA choices to cope with this.
OTOH it may have been that only with the double exposure to maths
did I get to scrape through at all.
One thing I never realised was how much of a university
engineering course is actually maths. There is just so much that
I never understood, and even the bits I did grasp are lost in the
mists of time. I remember my disappointment, having chosen a
"machines" option in the final year, to be presented with a large
matrix and being told that, for the purposes of this analysis,
the design details were pretty irrelevant, all large machines
reduced to this grid of numbers.
It was also clearly my personal ceiling for physics - I had to
re-sit in my first year at university.
I think I had managed A level on what (to me) seemed like common
sense, and managed to avoid too many proofs. The university focus
was rather different, and additionally I suppose I allowed myself
to think I could get away with less revision than it actually
needed.
Luckily, I managed eventually to find myself in a field where, as
one of the old hands once told me, "All you need is Ohms law and
25 years' experience."
I never had a calculator with buttons more complicated than
square root, and that was quite sufficient for my needs.
Chris
I really appreciate both those posts. Many umrats are so clever and
were so successful academically that I sometimes feel like an
underachiever.
What we desperately need is an education system that focuses on finding
and nurturing the talents of each individual. I know from teaching
students who got poor A level grades for all sorts of reasons that many
people find their feet academically considerably later than the system
allows. Polys were so good at letting such people re-enter higher
education but that's all been lost.

And I am very proud of my third class degree.
--
Laura (emulate St George for email)
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-11-05 12:21:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
[]
Post by LFS
Post by Vicky Ayech
I really appreciate both those posts. Many umrats are so clever and
were so successful academically that I sometimes feel like an
underachiever.
As Mike said, I/you/we/they can achieve so much else.
Post by LFS
What we desperately need is an education system that focuses on finding
and nurturing the talents of each individual. I know from teaching
students who got poor A level grades for all sorts of reasons that many
people find their feet academically considerably later than the system
allows. Polys were so good at letting such people re-enter higher
education but that's all been lost.
Indeed. And we need less snootiness in society in general towards
qualifications (and in general) - but we'll never get it (in our
lifetimes, anyway).
Post by LFS
And I am very proud of my third class degree.
And I of my Desmond - well, actually, I don't think I ever used that
much of what I learned on it, even though I selected carefully on course
content; but it did (continuing what my school had) teach me how to
learn. But I became a generalist, not only in my field (electronics) but
also in life; employers find that difficult to know what to do with,
though, or at least I thought mine did.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Veni, Vidi, VO5 (I came, I saw, I washed my hair) - Mik from S+AS Limited
(***@saslimited.demon.co.uk), 1998
Chris McMillan
2018-11-06 17:48:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Chris J Dixon
Post by Fenny
we did O level
General Science - doing A level Further Maths and Physics was
completely over my head.
I have said this before, but simply because I wasn't too keen on
chemistry, my A level subjects were physics, maths and further
maths. That wasn't my best choice - resulting in an A in physics,
E in maths and fail in further maths. This was not a great
surprise, and I had set up my UCCA choices to cope with this.
OTOH it may have been that only with the double exposure to maths
did I get to scrape through at all.
One thing I never realised was how much of a university
engineering course is actually maths. There is just so much that
I never understood, and even the bits I did grasp are lost in the
mists of time. I remember my disappointment, having chosen a
"machines" option in the final year, to be presented with a large
matrix and being told that, for the purposes of this analysis,
the design details were pretty irrelevant, all large machines
reduced to this grid of numbers.
It was also clearly my personal ceiling for physics - I had to
re-sit in my first year at university.
I think I had managed A level on what (to me) seemed like common
sense, and managed to avoid too many proofs. The university focus
was rather different, and additionally I suppose I allowed myself
to think I could get away with less revision than it actually
needed.
Luckily, I managed eventually to find myself in a field where, as
one of the old hands once told me, "All you need is Ohms law and
25 years' experience."
I never had a calculator with buttons more complicated than
square root, and that was quite sufficient for my needs.
Chris
I really appreciate both those posts. Many umrats are so clever and
were so successful academically that I sometimes feel like an
underachiever.
All I can say Vicky is if you think you’re an under achiever and you went
to university, I must be the dunce who struggled to get under average GCEs,
a year at college and a dead end typist’s job.

Sincerely Chris
Chris McMillan
2018-11-02 15:12:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Chris McMillan
Have already lost the will to live. I remember these with horror.
Sincerely Chris
They never particularly appealed to me either (though I don't think they
happened to coincide with my year), but how much of your remembered
horror was due to doing them in mediæval English - if you did, that is?
Oh we did! And had to work out the modern English as we read them.

Sincerely Chris
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-11-02 17:25:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Chris McMillan
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Chris McMillan
Have already lost the will to live. I remember these with horror.
Sincerely Chris
They never particularly appealed to me either (though I don't think they
happened to coincide with my year), but how much of your remembered
horror was due to doing them in mediæval English - if you did, that is?
Oh we did! And had to work out the modern English as we read them.
Sincerely Chris
I've always thought the surest way to put a child off something - or, if
unlucky, of "classics" in general - is to have them "do" it for Eng.
Lit. 'O' level (or equivalent). And we _did_ have good teachers. I'll
never go near Joseph Conrad again. (Our Shak was R&J, which was OK [our
teacher took us to see the Fellini film], though not great [but UMRA
knows my views on the Shakespeare mafia].)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Veni Vidi Vacuum [I came, I saw, It sucked] - ***@saslimited.demon.co.uk, 1998
Vicky Ayech
2018-11-02 17:55:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 2 Nov 2018 17:25:54 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Chris McMillan
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Chris McMillan
Have already lost the will to live. I remember these with horror.
Sincerely Chris
They never particularly appealed to me either (though I don't think they
happened to coincide with my year), but how much of your remembered
horror was due to doing them in mediæval English - if you did, that is?
Oh we did! And had to work out the modern English as we read them.
Sincerely Chris
I've always thought the surest way to put a child off something - or, if
unlucky, of "classics" in general - is to have them "do" it for Eng.
Lit. 'O' level (or equivalent). And we _did_ have good teachers. I'll
never go near Joseph Conrad again. (Our Shak was R&J, which was OK [our
teacher took us to see the Fellini film], though not great [but UMRA
knows my views on the Shakespeare mafia].)
Well, we did Chaucer, though not for an exam I think, Conrad and
Shakespeare and the only one I hated was Conrad.
Sid Nuncius
2018-11-02 18:26:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Vicky Ayech
On Fri, 2 Nov 2018 17:25:54 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I've always thought the surest way to put a child off something - or, if
unlucky, of "classics" in general - is to have them "do" it for Eng.
Lit. 'O' level (or equivalent). And we _did_ have good teachers. I'll
never go near Joseph Conrad again. (Our Shak was R&J, which was OK [our
teacher took us to see the Fellini film], though not great [but UMRA
knows my views on the Shakespeare mafia].)
Well, we did Chaucer, though not for an exam I think, Conrad and
Shakespeare and the only one I hated was Conrad.
I never studied Conrad at any level. I still hate him.[1]

You're right, John; bad teaching can really damage enjoyment, but I
found that I rather liked most of what I did for O Level: 1984, Brave
New World, some war poetry and Oh, What A Lovely War and so on. I
didn't much care for Richard II because I couldn't really see the
point...until I saw Ben Wishaw's RII in The Hollow Crown series on the
BBC. But I didn't hate it.

The same is true for the music I studied for O Level: Brandenburg
Concerto No.1, Haydn's Lark Quartet and Strauss's Till Eulenspiegel have
remained favourites for almost half a century and sparked a lifelong
love of both Bach and Haydn for me. OTOH, we also had to study Bartok's
Mikrocosmos, which I loathed then and still loathe, along with most of
the rest of Bartok's output.

I guess all that means is that there's no hard and fast rule about
whether studying an artistic work will put a student off it, but for me
it generally didn't.


[1]"Hate" may be overstating it a bit, but I haven't enjoyed any of the
Conrad I've read.
--
Sid (Make sure Matron is away when you reply)
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-11-02 19:24:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by Vicky Ayech
On Fri, 2 Nov 2018 17:25:54 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I've always thought the surest way to put a child off something - or, if
unlucky, of "classics" in general - is to have them "do" it for Eng.
Lit. 'O' level (or equivalent). And we _did_ have good teachers. I'll
never go near Joseph Conrad again. (Our Shak was R&J, which was OK [our
teacher took us to see the Fellini film], though not great [but UMRA
knows my views on the Shakespeare mafia].)
Well, we did Chaucer, though not for an exam I think, Conrad and
Shakespeare and the only one I hated was Conrad.
I never studied Conrad at any level. I still hate him.[1]
You're right, John; bad teaching can really damage enjoyment, but I
Even good teaching; the minute dissection required ... maybe different
at 'A' level ...
Post by Sid Nuncius
found that I rather liked most of what I did for O Level: 1984, Brave
New World, some war poetry and Oh, What A Lovely War and so on. I
didn't much care for Richard II because I couldn't really see the
point...until I saw Ben Wishaw's RII in The Hollow Crown series on the
BBC. But I didn't hate it.
I didn't hate any of what we did (Heart of Darkness, Modern Short
Stories, Romeo & Juliet). HoD was the one I came closest to hating.
Post by Sid Nuncius
The same is true for the music I studied for O Level: Brandenburg
Concerto No.1, Haydn's Lark Quartet and Strauss's Till Eulenspiegel
have remained favourites for almost half a century and sparked a
lifelong love of both Bach and Haydn for me. OTOH, we also had to
study Bartok's Mikrocosmos, which I loathed then and still loathe,
along with most of the rest of Bartok's output.
I guess all that means is that there's no hard and fast rule about
whether studying an artistic work will put a student off it, but for me
it generally didn't.
I suspect it might be different for music.
Post by Sid Nuncius
[1]"Hate" may be overstating it a bit, but I haven't enjoyed any of the
Conrad I've read.
I've not read any (-:


I don't know if things have changed, but I think part of the problem
with Eng. Lit 'O' was that the selections were somewhat "worthy"; I
don't remember ever hearing of a modern, popular book being set -
detective, thriller, SF, ... . (It doesn't even have to have been
particularly "good" [though that's subjective anyway]: a "badly" written
book can still be analysed, at least to the level required for 'O'.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

You can be tough without being rude - Nick Clegg, 2014 July
Penny
2018-11-03 00:27:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 2 Nov 2018 19:24:31 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by Vicky Ayech
On Fri, 2 Nov 2018 17:25:54 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I've always thought the surest way to put a child off something - or, if
unlucky, of "classics" in general - is to have them "do" it for Eng.
Lit. 'O' level (or equivalent). And we _did_ have good teachers. I'll
never go near Joseph Conrad again. (Our Shak was R&J, which was OK [our
teacher took us to see the Fellini film], though not great [but UMRA
knows my views on the Shakespeare mafia].)
Well, we did Chaucer, though not for an exam I think, Conrad and
Shakespeare and the only one I hated was Conrad.
I never studied Conrad at any level. I still hate him.[1]
Me too.
When I changed schools at the age of 13 (we moved across the county) the
English teacher asked me to write a book report on The Nigger of the
Narcissus so she could gauge my level - or whatever. Now I was a child who
loved reading, I spent most of my time when not actively engaged in
something else (and sometimes when I was supposed to be) with my head in a
book. I could not get through the first chapter of the Conrad and got in
all sorts of trouble for failing to produce the report and basically saying
I found the book unreadable. Not the best start in a new school.

I've been trying to remember what we read in the 2 years at my previous
school but can only recall Animal Farm. I do remember what the teacher read
to us one lesson a week - T H White's 'The Master' and 'The Otterbury
Incident' by Cecil Day-Lewis - great stuff.
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Sid Nuncius
You're right, John; bad teaching can really damage enjoyment, but I
Even good teaching; the minute dissection required ... maybe different
at 'A' level ...
I refused to do 'A' level English, I felt that analysing books, poetry and
plays took all the joy out of them. On the other hand, those in my year who
were doing it managed to introduce me to Gerard Manley Hopkins by leaving
the book lying around in the common room.
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Sid Nuncius
found that I rather liked most of what I did for O Level: 1984, Brave
New World, some war poetry and Oh, What A Lovely War and so on.
I'd have enjoyed those
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Sid Nuncius
didn't much care for Richard II because I couldn't really see the
point...until I saw Ben Wishaw's RII in The Hollow Crown series on the
BBC. But I didn't hate it.
We did Great Expectations (which I never finished reading), Henry V pt 1
and some epic poems which I didn't like but I did recognise one had been
parodied by Lewis Carroll in Through the Looking Glass (which seemed to
surprise the teacher). I never did develop a liking for Dickens (or the
Brontes or Austen or Thackery or Hardy...).
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Sid Nuncius
The same is true for the music I studied for O Level: Brandenburg
Concerto No.1, Haydn's Lark Quartet and Strauss's Till Eulenspiegel
have remained favourites for almost half a century and sparked a
lifelong love of both Bach and Haydn for me. OTOH, we also had to
study Bartok's Mikrocosmos, which I loathed then and still loathe,
along with most of the rest of Bartok's output.
Gosh, I only remember studying two pieces for 'O' level music, Eroica and
Eine Kleine Nachtmusik. It annoyed me that we had to study the composers
and write essays about them - too much like history. Mostly I enjoyed the
musical dictation and aural stuff.
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Sid Nuncius
I guess all that means is that there's no hard and fast rule about
whether studying an artistic work will put a student off it, but for me
it generally didn't.
I thoroughly enjoyed Art History - which surprised me a bit but I was older
when I did that.
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I suspect it might be different for music.
Post by Sid Nuncius
[1]"Hate" may be overstating it a bit, but I haven't enjoyed any of the
Conrad I've read.
I don't know if things have changed, but I think part of the problem
with Eng. Lit 'O' was that the selections were somewhat "worthy"; I
don't remember ever hearing of a modern, popular book being set -
detective, thriller, SF, ... . (It doesn't even have to have been
particularly "good" [though that's subjective anyway]: a "badly" written
book can still be analysed, at least to the level required for 'O'.)
I think more recent works are available on the curriculum now (though some
schools probably ignore them). I've heard more than one living author
talking about exam questions on their own work, saying they doubted they
would pass the exam and they were certainly not thinking/meaning/intending
the sort of things the kids were being taught about them.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Fenny
2018-11-03 01:11:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Penny
We did Great Expectations (which I never finished reading), Henry V pt 1
and some epic poems which I didn't like but I did recognise one had been
parodied by Lewis Carroll in Through the Looking Glass (which seemed to
surprise the teacher). I never did develop a liking for Dickens (or the
Brontes or Austen or Thackery or Hardy...).
We did Great Expectations, of which I read the first 20 chapters under
protest, then refused to touch ever again; Henry V, which I missed the
trip to see; and 5 long poems which included The Eve of St Agnes,
Michael, Deserted Village and The Lotus Eaters. Can't remember the
other offhand.

In the end, I ratherenjoyed the poetry and answered 3 of the 5
required questions on it, mostly because I hadn't a clue about the
rest.

I totally agree about forcing people to analyse books putting them
off. I'm very glad we didn't read Jane Eyre, which was one of the
options, but the boys voted against it.
--
Fenny
Penny
2018-11-03 09:30:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sat, 03 Nov 2018 01:11:37 +0000, Fenny <***@removethis.gmail.com>
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Fenny
Post by Penny
We did Great Expectations (which I never finished reading), Henry V pt 1
and some epic poems which I didn't like but I did recognise one had been
parodied by Lewis Carroll in Through the Looking Glass (which seemed to
surprise the teacher). I never did develop a liking for Dickens (or the
Brontes or Austen or Thackery or Hardy...).
We did Great Expectations, of which I read the first 20 chapters under
protest, then refused to touch ever again; Henry V, which I missed the
trip to see; and 5 long poems which included The Eve of St Agnes,
Michael, Deserted Village and The Lotus Eaters. Can't remember the
other offhand.
That sounds like the same set apart from the Shakespeare - ours was Henry
IV pt 1 - not what I wrote.
Post by Fenny
In the end, I ratherenjoyed the poetry and answered 3 of the 5
required questions on it, mostly because I hadn't a clue about the
rest.
I totally agree about forcing people to analyse books putting them
off. I'm very glad we didn't read Jane Eyre, which was one of the
options, but the boys voted against it.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
BrritSki
2018-11-03 09:54:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Fenny
We did Great Expectations, of which I read the first 20 chapters under
protest, then refused to touch ever again; Henry V, which I missed the
trip to see; and 5 long poems which included The Eve of St Agnes,
Michael, Deserted Village and The Lotus Eaters. Can't remember the
other offhand.
That sounds like the same set apart from the Shakespeare - ours was Henry
IV pt 1 - not what I wrote.
My god, not another claim as to who really wrote them ! ;)
Mike Headon
2018-11-03 10:56:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Fenny
Post by Penny
We did Great Expectations (which I never finished reading), Henry V pt 1
and some epic poems which I didn't like but I did recognise one had been
parodied by Lewis Carroll in Through the Looking Glass (which seemed to
surprise the teacher). I never did develop a liking for Dickens (or the
Brontes or Austen or Thackery or Hardy...).
We did Great Expectations, of which I read the first 20 chapters under
protest, then refused to touch ever again; Henry V, which I missed the
trip to see; and 5 long poems which included The Eve of St Agnes,
Michael, Deserted Village and The Lotus Eaters. Can't remember the
other offhand.
In the end, I ratherenjoyed the poetry and answered 3 of the 5
required questions on it, mostly because I hadn't a clue about the
rest.
I totally agree about forcing people to analyse books putting them
off. I'm very glad we didn't read Jane Eyre, which was one of the
options, but the boys voted against it.
I was very lucky in '58. Macbeth and Animal Farm! Some of my
near-contemporaries had The Trumpet Major or Bleak House (great book,
but possibly not when you are fourteen. I did not read Dickens until I
was 20).
--
Mike Headon
R69S R850R
IIIc IIIg FT FTn FT2 EOS450D
e-mail: mike dot headon at enn tee ell world dot com

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Sid Nuncius
2018-11-03 07:36:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Penny
Post by Sid Nuncius
The same is true for the music I studied for O Level: Brandenburg
Concerto No.1, Haydn's Lark Quartet and Strauss's Till Eulenspiegel
have remained favourites for almost half a century and sparked a
lifelong love of both Bach and Haydn for me. OTOH, we also had to
study Bartok's Mikrocosmos, which I loathed then and still loathe,
along with most of the rest of Bartok's output.
Gosh, I only remember studying two pieces for 'O' level music, Eroica and
Eine Kleine Nachtmusik. It annoyed me that we had to study the composers
and write essays about them - too much like history. Mostly I enjoyed the
musical dictation and aural stuff.
I wasn't good enough at it to enjoy that. :o) I coped, but that's
about the best that can be said. It has been invaluable to me since,
though, as I've been able to work out a lot of guitar pieces and
arrangements by ear using what I learned then, which has given me
immense pleasure through the years. (The same can probably not be said
of those overhearing me doing it, mind you.)

I remember that the aural exam was on an LP-like disc - probably an
acetate - which our music teacher had to unseal, place on the gramophone
and play to us uninterrupted under exam conditions. (God, I feel old.)
I can even remember some of the exercises: name these intervals[1], name
these cadences, write the following rhythm as musical notation on one
note, write down this melody...and the sheer relief that I'd been able
to do most of it correctly is still quite vivid.

I also remember that the syllabus (Oxford & Cambridge Board) stipulated
that we had to study the Brandenburg Concerto in detail but the other
three in less depth. After all this time, I can't remember what
difference that made to what we actually learned, though.

[1] Blimey, now I've started, I can even remember how I learned to
recognise some intervals - a perfect fourth was a diesel train's horn, a
perfect fifth was the opening two notes of Also Sprach Zarathustra, the
theme from the Wednesday play on BBC1 began with a major 6th
harmony...etc. Amazing what crawls out of the sludge at the bottom of
your mind when you stir it. And it's amazing how boring it probably is
to others. Sorry.
--
Sid (Make sure Matron is away when you reply)
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-11-03 08:53:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
In message <***@mid.individual.net>, Sid Nuncius
<***@hotmail.co.uk> writes:
[]
feel old.) I can even remember some of the exercises: name these
intervals[1], name these cadences, write the following rhythm as
musical notation on one note, write down this melody...and the sheer
[]
I've often wondered if any vicar has ever asked a marrying couple, when
they say they want the wedding march, has asked "do you want the one
with all the Vs then MAENXU, or TTA TTA?" - you'll wonder _what_ I'm on
about, but anyone who's ever tried to learn Morse code will know what I
mean: one of them starts with more Vs than Beethoven's fifth, or it
feels like it.
[1] Blimey, now I've started, I can even remember how I learned to
recognise some intervals - a perfect fourth was a diesel train's horn,
a perfect fifth was the opening two notes of Also Sprach Zarathustra,
the theme from the Wednesday play on BBC1 began with a major 6th
harmony...etc. Amazing what crawls out of the sludge at the bottom of
your mind when you stir it. And it's amazing how boring it probably is
to others. Sorry.
Not at all! Those first two will be most useful, if I can remember which
they are! (Was it only _Diesel_ horns? I suppose it was: steam trains
tended to only be a single note, more used by the physics master to
discuss the Doppler effect than the music master.) I now see that the
opening "You are" of "All the things you are" (for me, always the Peter
Sellers version) is a perfect fourth.

Odd how certain musical intervals - especially with the right timing -
always trigger things for me: I always think "tit willow" when using the
self-scan handsets in one of the supermarkets. And there's another one I
hear a lot that always sets my mind on one of the sixties "classical"
hits - Pop Goes Bach, or Nut Rocker, or similar: as always under such
circumstances, I cant remember which it is.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"What happens if I press this button?" "I wouldn't ..." (pinggg!) "Oh!" "What
happened?" "A sign lit up, saying `please do not press this button
again'!"(s1f2)
Penny
2018-11-03 09:35:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sat, 3 Nov 2018 07:36:40 +0000, Sid Nuncius
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by Penny
Gosh, I only remember studying two pieces for 'O' level music, Eroica and
Eine Kleine Nachtmusik. It annoyed me that we had to study the composers
and write essays about them - too much like history. Mostly I enjoyed the
musical dictation and aural stuff.
I wasn't good enough at it to enjoy that. :o)
I was good at the pitch, not so good on the rhythm. I sat next to a girl
who was better at the rhythm than the pitch - we both did quite well ;)
Post by Sid Nuncius
I coped, but that's
about the best that can be said. It has been invaluable to me since,
though, as I've been able to work out a lot of guitar pieces and
arrangements by ear using what I learned then, which has given me
immense pleasure through the years. (The same can probably not be said
of those overhearing me doing it, mind you.)
--8<--
Post by Sid Nuncius
[1] Blimey, now I've started, I can even remember how I learned to
recognise some intervals - a perfect fourth was a diesel train's horn, a
perfect fifth was the opening two notes of Also Sprach Zarathustra, the
theme from the Wednesday play on BBC1 began with a major 6th
harmony...etc.
What a good idea!
Post by Sid Nuncius
Amazing what crawls out of the sludge at the bottom of
your mind when you stir it. And it's amazing how boring it probably is
to others. Sorry.
Your memory is working far better than mine :|
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Mike
2018-11-03 11:29:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Penny
I was good at the pitch, not so good on the rhythm. I sat next to a girl
who was better at the rhythm than the pitch - we both did quite well ;)
Good Roman Catholic girl was she?
--
Toodle Pip
Vicky Ayech
2018-11-03 07:55:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Penny
On Fri, 2 Nov 2018 19:24:31 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by Vicky Ayech
On Fri, 2 Nov 2018 17:25:54 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I've always thought the surest way to put a child off something - or, if
unlucky, of "classics" in general - is to have them "do" it for Eng.
Lit. 'O' level (or equivalent). And we _did_ have good teachers. I'll
never go near Joseph Conrad again. (Our Shak was R&J, which was OK [our
teacher took us to see the Fellini film], though not great [but UMRA
knows my views on the Shakespeare mafia].)
Well, we did Chaucer, though not for an exam I think, Conrad and
Shakespeare and the only one I hated was Conrad.
I never studied Conrad at any level. I still hate him.[1]
Me too.
When I changed schools at the age of 13 (we moved across the county) the
English teacher asked me to write a book report on The Nigger of the
Narcissus so she could gauge my level - or whatever. Now I was a child who
loved reading, I spent most of my time when not actively engaged in
something else (and sometimes when I was supposed to be) with my head in a
book. I could not get through the first chapter of the Conrad and got in
I spent much of my time reading too. My mother used to tell the story
of taking me clothes shopping and I took a book with me and sat with
it in the changing room. #1 daughter was very picky about clothes by
age 7 and granddaughter is now at 3. Must be from their father's side
of the family :).
Post by Penny
all sorts of trouble for failing to produce the report and basically saying
I found the book unreadable. Not the best start in a new school.
I've been trying to remember what we read in the 2 years at my previous
school but can only recall Animal Farm. I do remember what the teacher read
to us one lesson a week - T H White's 'The Master' and 'The Otterbury
Incident' by Cecil Day-Lewis - great stuff.
We did Animal Farm too and I think studying it was useful. I wouldn't
have understood the background otehr wise and did read the rest of
Orwell and quite enjoyed that.
Post by Penny
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Sid Nuncius
You're right, John; bad teaching can really damage enjoyment, but I
Even good teaching; the minute dissection required ... maybe different
at 'A' level ...
I refused to do 'A' level English, I felt that analysing books, poetry and
plays took all the joy out of them. On the other hand, those in my year who
were doing it managed to introduce me to Gerard Manley Hopkins by leaving
the book lying around in the common room.
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Sid Nuncius
found that I rather liked most of what I did for O Level: 1984, Brave
New World, some war poetry and Oh, What A Lovely War and so on.
I'd have enjoyed those
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Sid Nuncius
didn't much care for Richard II because I couldn't really see the
point...until I saw Ben Wishaw's RII in The Hollow Crown series on the
BBC. But I didn't hate it.
We did Great Expectations (which I never finished reading), Henry V pt 1
and some epic poems which I didn't like but I did recognise one had been
parodied by Lewis Carroll in Through the Looking Glass (which seemed to
surprise the teacher). I never did develop a liking for Dickens (or the
Brontes or Austen or Thackery or Hardy...).
I never liked Dickens or the Brontes particularly but loved Jane
Austen. Not keen on Hardy.

I think studying at O and A level with teachers who allowed the very
small groups who did English to discuss and work things out and made
the whole process, even criticising poetry, really enjoyable was a
good way to get to know texts. I suppose we were very lucky in all
three English teachers we had over the 4 years of O and A level. One
other earlier in the school was less good. She was new when we were
and we teased her.
Post by Penny
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Sid Nuncius
The same is true for the music I studied for O Level: Brandenburg
Concerto No.1, Haydn's Lark Quartet and Strauss's Till Eulenspiegel
have remained favourites for almost half a century and sparked a
lifelong love of both Bach and Haydn for me. OTOH, we also had to
study Bartok's Mikrocosmos, which I loathed then and still loathe,
along with most of the rest of Bartok's output.
Gosh, I only remember studying two pieces for 'O' level music, Eroica and
Eine Kleine Nachtmusik. It annoyed me that we had to study the composers
and write essays about them - too much like history. Mostly I enjoyed the
musical dictation and aural stuff.
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Sid Nuncius
I guess all that means is that there's no hard and fast rule about
whether studying an artistic work will put a student off it, but for me
it generally didn't.
I thoroughly enjoyed Art History - which surprised me a bit but I was older
when I did that.
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I suspect it might be different for music.
Post by Sid Nuncius
[1]"Hate" may be overstating it a bit, but I haven't enjoyed any of the
Conrad I've read.
I don't know if things have changed, but I think part of the problem
with Eng. Lit 'O' was that the selections were somewhat "worthy"; I
don't remember ever hearing of a modern, popular book being set -
detective, thriller, SF, ... . (It doesn't even have to have been
particularly "good" [though that's subjective anyway]: a "badly" written
book can still be analysed, at least to the level required for 'O'.)
I think more recent works are available on the curriculum now (though some
schools probably ignore them). I've heard more than one living author
talking about exam questions on their own work, saying they doubted they
would pass the exam and they were certainly not thinking/meaning/intending
the sort of things the kids were being taught about them.
Rosemary Miskin
2018-11-03 11:57:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Not keen on Hardy. 
Hi
We did The Trumpet Major for O-level, which I found tedious,
but I enjoyed his poetryhich was also onthe syllabus.

Rosemary
Chris McMillan
2018-11-04 11:41:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rosemary Miskin
Not keen on Hardy. 
Hi
We did The Trumpet Major for O-level, which I found tedious,
but I enjoyed his poetryhich was also onthe syllabus.
Rosemary
Mayor of Casterbridge replaced Ring of Bright Water, step ma limed Hardy
novels. I read all but Jude the Obscure. Tried reading it as a kindle
download (free). If it had bern his first book, he’d never have made it.
As his last (I think), he’d lost it.

Sincerely Chris
LFS
2018-11-04 18:02:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Chris McMillan
Post by Rosemary Miskin
Post by Vicky Ayech
Not keen on Hardy.
Hi
We did The Trumpet Major for O-level, which I found tedious,
but I enjoyed his poetryhich was also onthe syllabus.
Rosemary
Mayor of Casterbridge replaced Ring of Bright Water, step ma limed Hardy
novels. I read all but Jude the Obscure. Tried reading it as a kindle
download (free). If it had bern his first book, he’d never have made it.
As his last (I think), he’d lost it.
We did The Mayor of Casterbridge for O level, I loathed it. Tess was
boring. But I wept buckets over Jude.
--
Laura (emulate St George for email)
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-11-03 08:33:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
In message <***@4ax.com>, Penny
<***@labyrinth.freeuk.com> writes:
[]
Post by Penny
Me too.
When I changed schools at the age of 13 (we moved across the county) the
English teacher asked me to write a book report on The Nigger of the
Narcissus so she could gauge my level - or whatever. Now I was a child who
loved reading, I spent most of my time when not actively engaged in
something else (and sometimes when I was supposed to be) with my head in a
book. I could not get through the first chapter of the Conrad and got in
all sorts of trouble for failing to produce the report and basically saying
I found the book unreadable. Not the best start in a new school.
But much kudos to you from me for saying it.
[]
Post by Penny
We did Great Expectations (which I never finished reading), Henry V pt 1
We did Hard Times, though I don't think it was for an exam.
Post by Penny
and some epic poems which I didn't like but I did recognise one had been
parodied by Lewis Carroll in Through the Looking Glass (which seemed to
Is that "You are old, father William"? I think nowadays very few people
know that's a parody, as the original is virtually unknown!
Post by Penny
surprise the teacher). I never did develop a liking for Dickens (or the
Brontes or Austen or Thackery or Hardy...).
I think they make good bases for TV and film (-:!
[]
Post by Penny
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Sid Nuncius
I guess all that means is that there's no hard and fast rule about
whether studying an artistic work will put a student off it, but for me
it generally didn't.
A discussion I've occasionally had with my brother - usually about
music, but can apply to most topics. The person who knows a lot about a
subject will often be less able to enjoy light aspects as they see
what's being done wrong, but their enjoyment of something done properly
is much greater than that of the person who knows less: in music, for
example, I can enjoy something simplistic more than he can. Which person
gets the most _net_ enjoyment out of life is arguable. Depends to some
extent on your ability to suspend what you know: for example, when
watching film or TV, I often know that something is technically wrong
(the obvious example used to be computers blowing up, though makers are
- finally! - learning about that one), but unless it's a _major_ plot
point, I can usually "suspend disbelief" enough to still enjoy the
film/programme.
[]
Post by Penny
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I don't know if things have changed, but I think part of the problem
with Eng. Lit 'O' was that the selections were somewhat "worthy"; I
don't remember ever hearing of a modern, popular book being set -
detective, thriller, SF, ... . (It doesn't even have to have been
particularly "good" [though that's subjective anyway]: a "badly" written
book can still be analysed, at least to the level required for 'O'.)
I think more recent works are available on the curriculum now (though some
schools probably ignore them). I've heard more than one living author
That may well be part of the problem: _some_ schools, and/or teachers,
are afraid of picking the "popular" options from the list.
Post by Penny
talking about exam questions on their own work, saying they doubted they
would pass the exam and they were certainly not thinking/meaning/intending
the sort of things the kids were being taught about them.
I may have mentioned before an SF short story - I don't remember the
details - in which Shakespeare had been brought forward in a time
machine (possibly by accident, I don't remember), and had enrolled in a
college literature course which (of course) included study of his work;
he didn't do particularly well on it. I remember the professors talking
about it afterwards, one of them saying something like "remember that
quiet young man with the beard ..."
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"What happens if I press this button?" "I wouldn't ..." (pinggg!) "Oh!" "What
happened?" "A sign lit up, saying `please do not press this button
again'!"(s1f2)
Penny
2018-11-03 09:50:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sat, 3 Nov 2018 08:33:17 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by Penny
Me too.
When I changed schools at the age of 13 (we moved across the county) the
English teacher asked me to write a book report on The Nigger of the
Narcissus so she could gauge my level - or whatever. Now I was a child who
loved reading, I spent most of my time when not actively engaged in
something else (and sometimes when I was supposed to be) with my head in a
book. I could not get through the first chapter of the Conrad and got in
all sorts of trouble for failing to produce the report and basically saying
I found the book unreadable. Not the best start in a new school.
But much kudos to you from me for saying it.
Thank you.
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by Penny
We did Great Expectations (which I never finished reading), Henry V pt 1
We did Hard Times, though I don't think it was for an exam.
Post by Penny
and some epic poems which I didn't like but I did recognise one had been
parodied by Lewis Carroll in Through the Looking Glass (which seemed to
Is that "You are old, father William"? I think nowadays very few people
know that's a parody, as the original is virtually unknown!
No, it was the white knight's tale about an aged aged man a-sitting on a
gate. I learnt nearly all the poems from Looking Glass for my own amusement
- can't recall much of that one now and the book's in the other room.
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Penny
surprise the teacher). I never did develop a liking for Dickens (or the
Brontes or Austen or Thackery or Hardy...).
I think they make good bases for TV and film (-:!
Oh yes, I quite like the stories but not the writing.
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Penny
Post by Sid Nuncius
I guess all that means is that there's no hard and fast rule about
whether studying an artistic work will put a student off it, but for me
it generally didn't.
A discussion I've occasionally had with my brother - usually about
music, but can apply to most topics. The person who knows a lot about a
subject will often be less able to enjoy light aspects as they see
what's being done wrong,
Oh, certainly. Isn't that why we shout at the radio when the grammar is
bad? In fact I've spent so much of my life correcting other people's errors
I now find I stop processing what a person is saying when they use the
wrong word.

D#1 did a films module during her first degree. It left her knowledgable
about various technical aspects of film but less able to enjoy watching a
film for its own sake.

--->8---
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Penny
talking about exam questions on their own work, saying they doubted they
would pass the exam and they were certainly not thinking/meaning/intending
the sort of things the kids were being taught about them.
I may have mentioned before an SF short story - I don't remember the
details - in which Shakespeare had been brought forward in a time
machine (possibly by accident, I don't remember), and had enrolled in a
college literature course which (of course) included study of his work;
he didn't do particularly well on it. I remember the professors talking
about it afterwards, one of them saying something like "remember that
quiet young man with the beard ..."
:)
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-11-03 10:34:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
In message <***@4ax.com>, Penny
<***@labyrinth.freeuk.com> writes:
[]
Post by Penny
Oh, certainly. Isn't that why we shout at the radio when the grammar is
bad? In fact I've spent so much of my life correcting other people's errors
I now find I stop processing what a person is saying when they use the
wrong word.
[]
Indeed. I even find myself thinking _how_ I'd explain it to them _why_
it's wrong (and often thus why it actually _matters_, by which time I've
_totally_ missed what they are saying, and even the reply.

Totally evil thought: I wonder if some of them do it deliberately, to
get rid of people like us (i. e. so they can say something they know
we'll dislike/disagree with in the next breath, knowing that we'll not
hear it, but those they're aiming at will? Call me Machiavellian ...)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen. And I'm not getting out
of the kitchen for a long time yet. - Petula Clark (at 83), RT 2016/10/22-28
Mike
2018-11-03 11:24:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by Penny
Oh, certainly. Isn't that why we shout at the radio when the grammar is
bad? In fact I've spent so much of my life correcting other people's errors
I now find I stop processing what a person is saying when they use the
wrong word.
[]
Indeed. I even find myself thinking _how_ I'd explain it to them _why_
it's wrong (and often thus why it actually _matters_, by which time I've
_totally_ missed what they are saying, and even the reply.
Totally evil thought: I wonder if some of them do it deliberately, to
get rid of people like us (i. e. so they can say something they know
we'll dislike/disagree with in the next breath, knowing that we'll not
hear it, but those they're aiming at will? Call me Machiavellian ...)
Then there are those (most) polytishuns who avoid giving a negative answer,
they give a very long mind bogglingly boring banal reply that disappears up
its’ own verbalrectum without giving any form of bias or commitment to any
opinion or policy. Min dew, I still think Peter Sellers ‘does it better’.
--
Toodle Pip
Mike
2018-11-03 11:15:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
J. P. Gilliver (John) <G6JPG-***@255soft.uk> wrote:
. Which person
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
gets the most _net_ enjoyment out of life is arguable. Depends to some
extent on your ability to suspend what you know: for example, when
watching film or TV, I often know that something is technically wrong
(the obvious example used to be computers blowing up, though makers are
- finally! - learning about that one), but unless it's a _major_ plot
point, I can usually "suspend disbelief" enough to still enjoy the
film/programme.
[]
And of course, the switches and levers that become stiffer and require far
more effort to move them to ‘high or max’ positions, not to even mention
the gauges with a ‘danger’ zone on them, the sparks that fly out with smoke
from the control panels - then there are the computer controlled devices
that prevent human intervention from powering them down, switching them off
or otherwise preventing their or the devices own destruction; in fact the
only device known to man to delay this destructive mayhem is ....... the
advert break.
--
Toodle Pip
Steve Hague
2018-11-03 12:48:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by Penny
Me too.
When I changed schools at the age of 13 (we moved across the county) the
English teacher asked me to write a book report on The Nigger of the
Narcissus so she could gauge my level - or whatever.  Now I was a
child who
loved reading, I spent most of my time when not actively engaged in
something else (and sometimes when I was supposed to be) with my head in a
book. I could not get through the first chapter of the Conrad and got in
all sorts of trouble for failing to produce the report and basically saying
I found the book unreadable. Not the best start in a new school.
But much kudos to you from me for saying it.
[]
Post by Penny
We did Great Expectations (which I never finished reading), Henry V pt 1
We did Hard Times, though I don't think it was for an exam.
Post by Penny
and some epic poems which I didn't like but I did recognise one had been
parodied by Lewis Carroll in Through the Looking Glass (which seemed to
Is that "You are old, father William"? I think nowadays very few people
know that's a parody, as the original is virtually unknown!
Post by Penny
surprise the teacher). I never did develop a liking for Dickens (or the
Brontes or Austen or Thackery or Hardy...).
I think they make good bases for TV and film (-:!
[]
Post by Penny
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Sid Nuncius
I guess all that means is that there's no hard and fast rule about
whether studying an artistic work will put a student off it, but for me
it generally didn't.
A discussion I've occasionally had with my brother - usually about
music, but can apply to most topics. The person who knows a lot about a
subject will often be less able to enjoy light aspects as they see
what's being done wrong, but their enjoyment of something done properly
is much greater than that of the person who knows less: in music, for
example, I can enjoy something simplistic more than he can. Which person
gets the most _net_ enjoyment out of life is arguable. Depends to some
extent on your ability to suspend what you know: for example, when
watching film or TV, I often know that something is technically wrong
(the obvious example used to be computers blowing up, though makers are
- finally! - learning about that one), but unless it's a _major_ plot
point, I can usually "suspend disbelief" enough to still enjoy the
film/programme.
[]
Post by Penny
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I don't know if things have changed, but I think part of the problem
with Eng. Lit 'O' was that the selections were somewhat "worthy"; I
don't remember ever hearing of a modern, popular book being set -
detective, thriller, SF, ... . (It doesn't even have to have been
particularly "good" [though that's subjective anyway]: a "badly" written
book can still be analysed, at least to the level required for 'O'.)
I think more recent works are available on the curriculum now (though some
schools probably ignore them). I've heard more than one living author
That may well be part of the problem: _some_ schools, and/or teachers,
are afraid of picking the "popular" options from the list.
Post by Penny
talking about exam questions on their own work, saying they doubted they
would pass the exam and they were certainly not
thinking/meaning/intending
the sort of things the kids were being taught about them.
I may have mentioned before an SF short story - I don't remember the
details - in which Shakespeare had been brought forward in a time
machine (possibly by accident, I don't remember), and had enrolled in a
college literature course which (of course) included study of his work;
he didn't do particularly well on it. I remember the professors talking
about it afterwards, one of them saying something like "remember that
quiet young man with the beard ..."
Yes. Too much knowledge can ruin a good story. In the days of my youth,
I loved the Sherlock Holmes stories until I got to "The Speckled Band".
I knew snakes don't have ears, so Conan Doyle lost all credibility for
me, even though I was willing to suspend disbelief for the likes of
Asimov and Clarke, although not for E.E. (Doc) Smith.
Steve
Mike
2018-11-03 13:06:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Steve Hague
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
Post by Penny
Me too.
When I changed schools at the age of 13 (we moved across the county) the
English teacher asked me to write a book report on The Nigger of the
Narcissus so she could gauge my level - or whatever.  Now I was a
child who
loved reading, I spent most of my time when not actively engaged in
something else (and sometimes when I was supposed to be) with my head in a
book. I could not get through the first chapter of the Conrad and got in
all sorts of trouble for failing to produce the report and basically saying
I found the book unreadable. Not the best start in a new school.
But much kudos to you from me for saying it.
[]
Post by Penny
We did Great Expectations (which I never finished reading), Henry V pt 1
We did Hard Times, though I don't think it was for an exam.
Post by Penny
and some epic poems which I didn't like but I did recognise one had been
parodied by Lewis Carroll in Through the Looking Glass (which seemed to
Is that "You are old, father William"? I think nowadays very few people
know that's a parody, as the original is virtually unknown!
Post by Penny
surprise the teacher). I never did develop a liking for Dickens (or the
Brontes or Austen or Thackery or Hardy...).
I think they make good bases for TV and film (-:!
[]
Post by Penny
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Sid Nuncius
I guess all that means is that there's no hard and fast rule about
whether studying an artistic work will put a student off it, but for me
it generally didn't.
A discussion I've occasionally had with my brother - usually about
music, but can apply to most topics. The person who knows a lot about a
subject will often be less able to enjoy light aspects as they see
what's being done wrong, but their enjoyment of something done properly
is much greater than that of the person who knows less: in music, for
example, I can enjoy something simplistic more than he can. Which person
gets the most _net_ enjoyment out of life is arguable. Depends to some
extent on your ability to suspend what you know: for example, when
watching film or TV, I often know that something is technically wrong
(the obvious example used to be computers blowing up, though makers are
- finally! - learning about that one), but unless it's a _major_ plot
point, I can usually "suspend disbelief" enough to still enjoy the
film/programme.
[]
Post by Penny
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I don't know if things have changed, but I think part of the problem
with Eng. Lit 'O' was that the selections were somewhat "worthy"; I
don't remember ever hearing of a modern, popular book being set -
detective, thriller, SF, ... . (It doesn't even have to have been
particularly "good" [though that's subjective anyway]: a "badly" written
book can still be analysed, at least to the level required for 'O'.)
I think more recent works are available on the curriculum now (though some
schools probably ignore them). I've heard more than one living author
That may well be part of the problem: _some_ schools, and/or teachers,
are afraid of picking the "popular" options from the list.
Post by Penny
talking about exam questions on their own work, saying they doubted they
would pass the exam and they were certainly not
thinking/meaning/intending
the sort of things the kids were being taught about them.
I may have mentioned before an SF short story - I don't remember the
details - in which Shakespeare had been brought forward in a time
machine (possibly by accident, I don't remember), and had enrolled in a
college literature course which (of course) included study of his work;
he didn't do particularly well on it. I remember the professors talking
about it afterwards, one of them saying something like "remember that
quiet young man with the beard ..."
Yes. Too much knowledge can ruin a good story. In the days of my youth,
I loved the Sherlock Holmes stories until I got to "The Speckled Band".
I knew snakes don't have ears, so Conan Doyle lost all credibility for
me, even though I was willing to suspend disbelief for the likes of
Asimov and Clarke, although not for E.E. (Doc) Smith.
Steve
Ah but, perhaps the snake could feel vibrations?
--
Toodle Pip
Steve Hague
2018-11-03 13:14:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mike
Post by Steve Hague
Yes. Too much knowledge can ruin a good story. In the days of my youth,
I loved the Sherlock Holmes stories until I got to "The Speckled Band".
I knew snakes don't have ears, so Conan Doyle lost all credibility for
me, even though I was willing to suspend disbelief for the likes of
Asimov and Clarke, although not for E.E. (Doc) Smith.
Steve
Ah but, perhaps the snake could feel vibrations?
Undoubtably, but it wouldn't have heard someone blow a whistle in
another part of the house. Which leads me on to "Oh whistle, and I'll
come to you, my lad." That was a scary story.
Steve
Penny
2018-11-03 13:47:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sat, 3 Nov 2018 12:48:21 +0000, Steve Hague <***@gmail.com>
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Steve Hague
Too much knowledge can ruin a good story. In the days of my youth,
I loved the Sherlock Holmes stories until I got to "The Speckled Band".
I knew snakes don't have ears, so Conan Doyle lost all credibility for
me, even though I was willing to suspend disbelief for the likes of
Asimov and Clarke, although not for E.E. (Doc) Smith.
I haven't read any Clarke or Smith but Asimov laid out his rules and stuck
to them.

I've enjoyed some Conan Doyle but never read any Sherlock Holmes - seen
plenty.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Mike
2018-11-03 13:59:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Steve Hague
Too much knowledge can ruin a good story. In the days of my youth,
I loved the Sherlock Holmes stories until I got to "The Speckled Band".
I knew snakes don't have ears, so Conan Doyle lost all credibility for
me, even though I was willing to suspend disbelief for the likes of
Asimov and Clarke, although not for E.E. (Doc) Smith.
I haven't read any Clarke or Smith but Asimov laid out his rules and stuck
to them.
I've enjoyed some Conan Doyle but never read any Sherlock Holmes - seen
plenty.
IRTA ‘Clarke & Smith; they manufactured the Talking Book Machines that I
serviced for about 30 years or so as a service volunteer for the RNIB
Talking Book Service.
--
Toodle Pip
Nick Odell
2018-11-03 15:58:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mike
Post by Penny
I haven't read any Clarke or Smith but Asimov laid out his rules and stuck
to them.
I've enjoyed some Conan Doyle but never read any Sherlock Holmes - seen
plenty.
IRTA ‘Clarke & Smith; they manufactured the Talking Book Machines that I
serviced for about 30 years or so as a service volunteer for the RNIB
Talking Book Service.
IRTA Clark Smith. I'm just about to finish the third, in the trilogy of
three, Nicky Mahoun accountant detective stories. I thought you'd all
like to know that.

Nick
BrritSki
2018-11-03 17:43:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Mike
Post by Penny
I haven't read any Clarke or Smith but Asimov laid out his rules and stuck
to them.
I've enjoyed some Conan Doyle but never read any Sherlock Holmes - seen
plenty.
IRTA ‘Clarke & Smith; they manufactured the Talking Book Machines that I
serviced for about 30 years or so as a service volunteer for the RNIB
Talking Book Service.
IRTA Clark Smith. I'm just about to finish the third, in the trilogy of
three, Nicky Mahoun accountant detective stories. I thought you'd all
like to know that.
I have just finished Thirteen, which is a fantastic lawyer/detective
story. Great writing, wonderfully twisted plot, not too much graphic
violence and some great characters. I immediately went to Amazon and
bought the 1st and 2nd in the Eddie Flynn series...
LFS
2018-11-03 17:51:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Mike
Post by Penny
I haven't read any Clarke or Smith but Asimov laid out his rules and stuck
to them.
I've enjoyed some Conan Doyle but never read any Sherlock Holmes - seen
plenty.
IRTA ‘Clarke & Smith; they manufactured the Talking Book Machines that I
serviced for about 30 years or so as a service volunteer for the RNIB
Talking Book Service.
IRTA Clark Smith. I'm just about to finish the third, in the trilogy of
three, Nicky Mahoun accountant detective stories. I thought you'd all
like to know that.
Ooh, an accountant detective, just up my street, thanks!

I've just discovered Louise Penny's books and have fallen a little in
love with Armand Gamache, possibly because whenever I see the name I
think of chocolate cake...
--
Laura (emulate St George for email)
Vicky Ayech
2018-11-03 18:42:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by LFS
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Penny
I haven't read any Clarke or Smith but Asimov laid out his rules and stuck
to them.
I've enjoyed some Conan Doyle but never read any Sherlock Holmes - seen
plenty.
IRTA ‘Clarke & Smith; they manufactured the Talking Book Machines that I
serviced for about 30 years or so as a service volunteer for the RNIB
Talking Book Service.
IRTA Clark Smith. I'm just about to finish the third, in the trilogy of
three, Nicky Mahoun accountant detective stories. I thought you'd all
like to know that.
Ooh, an accountant detective, just up my street, thanks!
I've just discovered Louise Penny's books and have fallen a little in
love with Armand Gamache, possibly because whenever I see the name I
think of chocolate cake...
Me too! YANAOU
Vicky Ayech
2018-11-03 18:42:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sat, 3 Nov 2018 15:58:34 +0000, Nick Odell
Post by Nick Odell
IRTA Clark Smith. I'm just about to finish the third, in the trilogy of
three, Nicky Mahoun accountant detective stories. I thought you'd all
like to know that.
I've begun a new detective series too, Chief Inspector Gamache by
Louise Penny. I can't remember who recommended them but whoever it
was, thanks. I am enjoying the first and just ordered the second.
Steve Hague
2018-11-03 14:01:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Steve Hague
Too much knowledge can ruin a good story. In the days of my youth,
I loved the Sherlock Holmes stories until I got to "The Speckled Band".
I knew snakes don't have ears, so Conan Doyle lost all credibility for
me, even though I was willing to suspend disbelief for the likes of
Asimov and Clarke, although not for E.E. (Doc) Smith.
I haven't read any Clarke or Smith but Asimov laid out his rules and stuck
to them.
I've enjoyed some Conan Doyle but never read any Sherlock Holmes - seen
plenty.
You read Isaac Asimov, but not Arthur C Clarke? How is this possible?
Steve
Penny
2018-11-03 15:31:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sat, 3 Nov 2018 14:01:58 +0000, Steve Hague <***@gmail.com>
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Steve Hague
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Steve Hague
Too much knowledge can ruin a good story. In the days of my youth,
I loved the Sherlock Holmes stories until I got to "The Speckled Band".
I knew snakes don't have ears, so Conan Doyle lost all credibility for
me, even though I was willing to suspend disbelief for the likes of
Asimov and Clarke, although not for E.E. (Doc) Smith.
I haven't read any Clarke or Smith but Asimov laid out his rules and stuck
to them.
I've enjoyed some Conan Doyle but never read any Sherlock Holmes - seen
plenty.
You read Isaac Asimov, but not Arthur C Clarke? How is this possible?
Possibly because my father bought Asimov but not Clarke and I didn't meet
any in the public library. I read all the Ray Bradbury I could find there
though.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Mike
2018-11-03 15:47:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Steve Hague
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Steve Hague
Too much knowledge can ruin a good story. In the days of my youth,
I loved the Sherlock Holmes stories until I got to "The Speckled Band".
I knew snakes don't have ears, so Conan Doyle lost all credibility for
me, even though I was willing to suspend disbelief for the likes of
Asimov and Clarke, although not for E.E. (Doc) Smith.
I haven't read any Clarke or Smith but Asimov laid out his rules and stuck
to them.
I've enjoyed some Conan Doyle but never read any Sherlock Holmes - seen
plenty.
You read Isaac Asimov, but not Arthur C Clarke? How is this possible?
Possibly because my father bought Asimov but not Clarke and I didn't meet
any in the public library. I read all the Ray Bradbury I could find there
though.
I once made a dramatised version of Ray Bradbury’s ‘Pedestrian’ I think it
is called, about a chap who prowled the streets at night dodging the
security police people. I was working with about 20 secondary school lads
who I think were supposed to create this production themselves as a GCSE
project; only one or two showed any real interest in acting or doing the
technical production. I think most regarded it as a skive out of school as
all the production was done at the college where I resided - little more
interest was ever shown, treacle and inclined surfaces came to mind. Guess
who was left to make it into a radio play, produce all the sound fx, edit
together the unwilling voices, mix and produce the final product - I didn’t
get a sustificate for my work though.
--
Toodle Pip
Vicky Ayech
2018-11-03 18:39:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Steve Hague
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Steve Hague
Too much knowledge can ruin a good story. In the days of my youth,
I loved the Sherlock Holmes stories until I got to "The Speckled Band".
I knew snakes don't have ears, so Conan Doyle lost all credibility for
me, even though I was willing to suspend disbelief for the likes of
Asimov and Clarke, although not for E.E. (Doc) Smith.
I haven't read any Clarke or Smith but Asimov laid out his rules and stuck
to them.
I've enjoyed some Conan Doyle but never read any Sherlock Holmes - seen
plenty.
You read Isaac Asimov, but not Arthur C Clarke? How is this possible?
Possibly because my father bought Asimov but not Clarke and I didn't meet
any in the public library. I read all the Ray Bradbury I could find there
though.
You haven't missed much. Clarke had good ideas but was a boring
writer. The Rama books are awful. Whereas Asimov and Bradbury were
wonderful.
John Ashby
2018-11-03 20:54:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Steve Hague
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Steve Hague
Too much knowledge can ruin a good story. In the days of my youth,
I loved the Sherlock Holmes stories until I got to "The Speckled Band".
I knew snakes don't have ears, so Conan Doyle lost all credibility for
me, even though I was willing to suspend disbelief for the likes of
Asimov and Clarke, although not for E.E. (Doc) Smith.
I haven't read any Clarke or Smith but Asimov laid out his rules and stuck
to them.
I've enjoyed some Conan Doyle but never read any Sherlock Holmes - seen
plenty.
You read Isaac Asimov, but not Arthur C Clarke? How is this possible?
Possibly because my father bought Asimov but not Clarke and I didn't meet
any in the public library. I read all the Ray Bradbury I could find there
though.
You haven't missed much. Clarke had good ideas but was a boring
writer. The Rama books are awful. Whereas Asimov and Bradbury were
wonderful.
Try Clarke's Tales from the White Hart. Stories that are short enough
the idea is prominent.

john
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-11-03 22:19:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by John Ashby
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Penny
On Sat, 3 Nov 2018 14:01:58 +0000, Steve Hague
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Steve Hague
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
[]
Post by John Ashby
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Penny
Post by Steve Hague
Post by Penny
Post by Steve Hague
I knew snakes don't have ears, so Conan Doyle lost all credibility for
me, even though I was willing to suspend disbelief for the likes of
Asimov and Clarke, although not for E.E. (Doc) Smith.
I haven't read any Clarke or Smith but Asimov laid out his rules and stuck
to them.
I've enjoyed some Conan Doyle but never read any Sherlock Holmes - seen
plenty.
You read Isaac Asimov, but not Arthur C Clarke? How is this possible?
I wondered that (-:.
Post by John Ashby
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Penny
Possibly because my father bought Asimov but not Clarke and I didn't meet
any in the public library. I read all the Ray Bradbury I could find there
though.
You haven't missed much. Clarke had good ideas but was a boring
writer. The Rama books are awful. Whereas Asimov and Bradbury were
wonderful.
Hmm. Only the first Rama was by Clarke; the rest were collaborations
(and IMO [ab]using Clarke's name). I enjoyed _some_ of his novels ...
Post by John Ashby
Try Clarke's Tales from the White Hart. Stories that are short enough
the idea is prominent.
... but I'd agree, his short stories are more fun. More than a dash of
whimsy in some of those, but (if anyone's reading this who's a
serious-ish scientist and would be put off by such a description) the
science is fairly rigorous/consistent.

For another _British_ author, seek out James (not to be confused with
Ken) Follett. [Who I first encountered with a Radio 4 series called
Earthsearch. He hasn't written _much_, compared to
Asimov/Clarke/Niven/Bova/Campbell/... . ]
Post by John Ashby
john
John
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

The trouble with the death penalty has always been that nobody wanted it for
everybody, but everybody differed about who should get off. - Albert
Pierrepoint, in his 1974 autobiography.
LFS
2018-11-03 22:51:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
For another _British_ author, seek out James (not to be confused with
Ken) Follett. [Who I first encountered with a Radio 4 series called
Earthsearch. He hasn't written _much_, compared to
Asimov/Clarke/Niven/Bova/Campbell/... . ]
Jim used to post regularly in alt.usage.english. His radio work is quite
often repeated on R4 Extra.
--
Laura (emulate St George for email)
Penny
2018-11-03 23:50:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sat, 3 Nov 2018 22:51:00 +0000, LFS <***@gmail.com>
scrawled in the dust...
Post by LFS
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
For another _British_ author, seek out James (not to be confused with
Ken) Follett. [Who I first encountered with a Radio 4 series called
Earthsearch. He hasn't written _much_, compared to
Asimov/Clarke/Niven/Bova/Campbell/... . ]
Jim used to post regularly in alt.usage.english. His radio work is quite
often repeated on R4 Extra.
Isn't he the chap who used to (and may still) be so obnoxious on
uk.media.radio.4?
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Nick Odell
2018-11-04 09:11:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by LFS
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
For another _British_ author, seek out James (not to be confused with
Ken) Follett. [Who I first encountered with a Radio 4 series called
Earthsearch. He hasn't written _much_, compared to
Asimov/Clarke/Niven/Bova/Campbell/... . ]
Jim used to post regularly in alt.usage.english. His radio work is quite
often repeated on R4 Extra.
Isn't he the chap who used to (and may still) be so obnoxious on
uk.media.radio.4?
Do you mean the chap with the double barreled name? James Follett -
novelist?

He was writing obnoxious bile on a number of groups. I have never read
any of his novels and have turned off his radio plays because of it.

Nick
LFS
2018-11-04 09:54:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by LFS
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
For another _British_ author, seek out James (not to be confused with
Ken) Follett. [Who I first encountered with a Radio 4 series called
Earthsearch. He hasn't written _much_, compared to
Asimov/Clarke/Niven/Bova/Campbell/... . ]
Jim used to post regularly in alt.usage.english. His radio work is quite
often repeated on R4 Extra.
Isn't he the chap who used to (and may still) be so obnoxious on
uk.media.radio.4?
Do you mean the chap with the double barreled name? James Follett -
novelist?
He was writing obnoxious bile on a number of groups. I have never read
any of his novels and have turned off his radio plays because of it.
Posters to a.u.e were (and still are) generally so obnoxious that,
there, he seemed perfectly well-mannered in comparison.
--
Laura (emulate St George for email)
Sid Nuncius
2018-11-05 06:45:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by LFS
Post by Nick Odell
Do you mean the chap with the double barreled name? James Follett -
novelist?
He was writing obnoxious bile on a number of groups. I have never read
any of his novels and have turned off his radio plays because of it.
Posters to a.u.e were (and still are) generally so obnoxious that,
there, he seemed perfectly well-mannered in comparison.
He wrote some obnoxious bile on umra for a short while. It was a long
time ago but I still remember how singularly unpleasant, arrogant and
dismissive he was. When he was met with well-mannered, humane arguments
he just went off in a huff, claiming that we were all to biased and
stupid to understand him.

Odious man.
--
Sid (Make sure Matron is away when you reply)
LFS
2018-11-05 07:17:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by LFS
Post by Nick Odell
Do you mean the chap with the double barreled name? James Follett -
novelist?
He was writing obnoxious bile on a number of groups. I have never
read any of his novels and have turned off his radio plays because of
it.
Posters to a.u.e were (and still are) generally so obnoxious that,
there, he seemed perfectly well-mannered in comparison.
He wrote some obnoxious bile on umra for a short while.  It was a long
time ago but I still remember how singularly unpleasant, arrogant and
dismissive he was.  When he was met with well-mannered, humane arguments
he just went off in a huff, claiming that we were all to biased and
stupid to understand him.
Odious man.
Alt.usage.english was my first experience of Usenet so I assumed that
everyone behaved like that until I discovered umra. But there are still
some polite and interesting people posting there. And I find it quite
therapeutic if I'm looking for an argument: retirement has left me with
no-one to fight with :)
--
Laura (emulate St George for email)
Mike
2018-11-05 09:30:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by LFS
Post by LFS
Post by Nick Odell
Do you mean the chap with the double barreled name? James Follett -
novelist?
He was writing obnoxious bile on a number of groups. I have never
read any of his novels and have turned off his radio plays because of
it.
Posters to a.u.e were (and still are) generally so obnoxious that,
there, he seemed perfectly well-mannered in comparison.
He wrote some obnoxious bile on umra for a short while.  It was a long
time ago but I still remember how singularly unpleasant, arrogant and
dismissive he was.  When he was met with well-mannered, humane arguments
he just went off in a huff, claiming that we were all to biased and
stupid to understand him.
Odious man.
Alt.usage.english was my first experience of Usenet so I assumed that
everyone behaved like that until I discovered umra. But there are still
some polite and interesting people posting there. And I find it quite
therapeutic if I'm looking for an argument: retirement has left me with
no-one to fight with :)
Is this the 30 minute argument -or the full hour?
--
Toodle Pip
krw
2018-11-05 11:47:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mike
Post by LFS
Post by LFS
Post by Nick Odell
Do you mean the chap with the double barreled name? James Follett -
novelist?
He was writing obnoxious bile on a number of groups. I have never
read any of his novels and have turned off his radio plays because of
it.
Posters to a.u.e were (and still are) generally so obnoxious that,
there, he seemed perfectly well-mannered in comparison.
He wrote some obnoxious bile on umra for a short while.  It was a long
time ago but I still remember how singularly unpleasant, arrogant and
dismissive he was.  When he was met with well-mannered, humane arguments
he just went off in a huff, claiming that we were all to biased and
stupid to understand him.
Odious man.
Alt.usage.english was my first experience of Usenet so I assumed that
everyone behaved like that until I discovered umra. But there are still
some polite and interesting people posting there. And I find it quite
therapeutic if I'm looking for an argument: retirement has left me with
no-one to fight with :)
Is this the 30 minute argument -or the full hour?
Hey that was my line you stole.
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
BrritSki
2018-11-05 12:35:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by krw
Post by Mike
Post by LFS
Post by LFS
Post by Nick Odell
Do you mean the chap with the double barreled name? James Follett -
novelist?
He was writing obnoxious bile on a number of groups. I have never
read any of his novels and have turned off his radio plays because of
it.
Posters to a.u.e were (and still are) generally so obnoxious that,
there, he seemed perfectly well-mannered in comparison.
He wrote some obnoxious bile on umra for a short while.  It was a long
time ago but I still remember how singularly unpleasant, arrogant and
dismissive he was.  When he was met with well-mannered, humane arguments
he just went off in a huff, claiming that we were all to biased and
stupid to understand him.
Odious man.
Alt.usage.english was my first experience of Usenet so I assumed that
everyone behaved like that until I discovered umra. But there are still
some polite and interesting people posting there. And I find it quite
therapeutic if I'm looking for an argument: retirement has left me with
no-one to fight with :)
Is this the 30 minute argument -or the full hour?
Hey that was my line you stole.
No it wasn't !
Mike
2018-11-05 12:39:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by BrritSki
Post by krw
Post by Mike
Post by LFS
Post by LFS
Post by Nick Odell
Do you mean the chap with the double barreled name? James Follett -
novelist?
He was writing obnoxious bile on a number of groups. I have never
read any of his novels and have turned off his radio plays because of
it.
Posters to a.u.e were (and still are) generally so obnoxious that,
there, he seemed perfectly well-mannered in comparison.
He wrote some obnoxious bile on umra for a short while.  It was a long
time ago but I still remember how singularly unpleasant, arrogant and
dismissive he was.  When he was met with well-mannered, humane arguments
he just went off in a huff, claiming that we were all to biased and
stupid to understand him.
Odious man.
Alt.usage.english was my first experience of Usenet so I assumed that
everyone behaved like that until I discovered umra. But there are still
some polite and interesting people posting there. And I find it quite
therapeutic if I'm looking for an argument: retirement has left me with
no-one to fight with :)
Is this the 30 minute argument -or the full hour?
Hey that was my line you stole.
No it wasn't !
Aren’t you the chap with a dead parrot?
--
Toodle Pip
krw
2018-11-05 13:16:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mike
Post by BrritSki
Post by krw
Post by Mike
Post by LFS
Post by LFS
Post by Nick Odell
Do you mean the chap with the double barreled name? James Follett -
novelist?
He was writing obnoxious bile on a number of groups. I have never
read any of his novels and have turned off his radio plays because of
it.
Posters to a.u.e were (and still are) generally so obnoxious that,
there, he seemed perfectly well-mannered in comparison.
He wrote some obnoxious bile on umra for a short while.  It was a long
time ago but I still remember how singularly unpleasant, arrogant and
dismissive he was.  When he was met with well-mannered, humane arguments
he just went off in a huff, claiming that we were all to biased and
stupid to understand him.
Odious man.
Alt.usage.english was my first experience of Usenet so I assumed that
everyone behaved like that until I discovered umra. But there are still
some polite and interesting people posting there. And I find it quite
therapeutic if I'm looking for an argument: retirement has left me with
no-one to fight with :)
Is this the 30 minute argument -or the full hour?
Hey that was my line you stole.
No it wasn't !
Aren’t you the chap with a dead parrot?
No I have a cheese shop.
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
Mike
2018-11-05 13:24:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by krw
Post by Mike
Post by BrritSki
Post by krw
Post by Mike
Post by LFS
Post by LFS
Post by Nick Odell
Do you mean the chap with the double barreled name? James Follett -
novelist?
He was writing obnoxious bile on a number of groups. I have never
read any of his novels and have turned off his radio plays because of
it.
Posters to a.u.e were (and still are) generally so obnoxious that,
there, he seemed perfectly well-mannered in comparison.
He wrote some obnoxious bile on umra for a short while.  It was a long
time ago but I still remember how singularly unpleasant, arrogant and
dismissive he was.  When he was met with well-mannered, humane arguments
he just went off in a huff, claiming that we were all to biased and
stupid to understand him.
Odious man.
Alt.usage.english was my first experience of Usenet so I assumed that
everyone behaved like that until I discovered umra. But there are still
some polite and interesting people posting there. And I find it quite
therapeutic if I'm looking for an argument: retirement has left me with
no-one to fight with :)
Is this the 30 minute argument -or the full hour?
Hey that was my line you stole.
No it wasn't !
Aren’t you the chap with a dead parrot?
No I have a cheese shop.
Gjetost that one in for the fun of it didden chew?
--
Toodle Pip
krw
2018-11-05 13:52:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mike
Post by krw
Post by Mike
Post by BrritSki
Post by krw
Post by Mike
Post by LFS
Post by LFS
Post by Nick Odell
Do you mean the chap with the double barreled name? James Follett -
novelist?
He was writing obnoxious bile on a number of groups. I have never
read any of his novels and have turned off his radio plays because of
it.
Posters to a.u.e were (and still are) generally so obnoxious that,
there, he seemed perfectly well-mannered in comparison.
He wrote some obnoxious bile on umra for a short while.  It was a long
time ago but I still remember how singularly unpleasant, arrogant and
dismissive he was.  When he was met with well-mannered, humane arguments
he just went off in a huff, claiming that we were all to biased and
stupid to understand him.
Odious man.
Alt.usage.english was my first experience of Usenet so I assumed that
everyone behaved like that until I discovered umra. But there are still
some polite and interesting people posting there. And I find it quite
therapeutic if I'm looking for an argument: retirement has left me with
no-one to fight with :)
Is this the 30 minute argument -or the full hour?
Hey that was my line you stole.
No it wasn't !
Aren’t you the chap with a dead parrot?
No I have a cheese shop.
Gjetost that one in for the fun of it didden chew?
it is a Tunworth of fun and it will go down Brielliantly.
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
Chris McMillan
2018-11-04 11:28:50 UTC
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Someone wrote:

As we have related before, sound effects for the radio series were done by
a friend of ours, Lloyd Silverthorne, who after leaving aunty Beeb founded
a learn vocal music by cassette/CD: Choraline. Kate may have heard of it.
I looked at the prequel, decided not to bite seeing the write up.

Sincerely Chris
Mike
2018-11-04 09:05:58 UTC
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Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by John Ashby
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Penny
On Sat, 3 Nov 2018 14:01:58 +0000, Steve Hague
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Steve Hague
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
[]
Post by John Ashby
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Penny
Post by Steve Hague
Post by Penny
Post by Steve Hague
I knew snakes don't have ears, so Conan Doyle lost all credibility for
me, even though I was willing to suspend disbelief for the likes of
Asimov and Clarke, although not for E.E. (Doc) Smith.
I haven't read any Clarke or Smith but Asimov laid out his rules and stuck
to them.
I've enjoyed some Conan Doyle but never read any Sherlock Holmes - seen
plenty.
You read Isaac Asimov, but not Arthur C Clarke? How is this possible?
I wondered that (-:.
Post by John Ashby
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Penny
Possibly because my father bought Asimov but not Clarke and I didn't meet
any in the public library. I read all the Ray Bradbury I could find there
though.
You haven't missed much. Clarke had good ideas but was a boring
writer. The Rama books are awful. Whereas Asimov and Bradbury were
wonderful.
Hmm. Only the first Rama was by Clarke; the rest were collaborations
(and IMO [ab]using Clarke's name). I enjoyed _some_ of his novels ...
Post by John Ashby
Try Clarke's Tales from the White Hart. Stories that are short enough
the idea is prominent.
... but I'd agree, his short stories are more fun. More than a dash of
whimsy in some of those, but (if anyone's reading this who's a
serious-ish scientist and would be put off by such a description) the
science is fairly rigorous/consistent.
For another _British_ author, seek out James (not to be confused with
Ken) Follett. [Who I first encountered with a Radio 4 series called
Earthsearch. He hasn't written _much_, compared to
Asimov/Clarke/Niven/Bova/Campbell/... . ]
Post by John Ashby
john
John
Our copy of ‘Earthsquirch’ as our friend and technical realiser of that
series called it, is a signed copy with a ‘thank you’ for repairing James’s
cassette recorder for him. We didn’t meet but exchanged letters at the
time. Lloyd Silverthorne was the studio manager and produced all the sound
fx and carried out the ‘Technical Realisation’ as Aunty called it.
--
Toodle Pip
Steve Hague
2018-11-04 09:21:03 UTC
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Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Steve Hague
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Steve Hague
Too much knowledge can ruin a good story. In the days of my youth,
I loved the Sherlock Holmes stories until I got to "The Speckled Band".
I knew snakes don't have ears, so Conan Doyle lost all credibility for
me, even though I was willing to suspend disbelief for the likes of
Asimov and Clarke, although not for E.E. (Doc) Smith.
I haven't read any Clarke or Smith but Asimov laid out his rules and stuck
to them.
I've enjoyed some Conan Doyle but never read any Sherlock Holmes - seen
plenty.
You read Isaac Asimov, but not Arthur C Clarke? How is this possible?
Possibly because my father bought Asimov but not Clarke and I didn't meet
any in the public library. I read all the Ray Bradbury I could find there
though.
You haven't missed much. Clarke had good ideas but was a boring
writer. The Rama books are awful. Whereas Asimov and Bradbury were
wonderful.
Clarkes short stories were better than his novels, imo. He only wrote
the first Rama book, the unfortunate sequels were by Gentry Lee.
Steve
Penny
2018-11-08 12:43:26 UTC
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On Sat, 03 Nov 2018 00:27:59 +0000, Penny <***@labyrinth.freeuk.com>
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Penny
We did Great Expectations (which I never finished reading)
My sort of book review - from Brian Bilston

Did not finish it.
Got the pip. Shame. I had such
Great Expectations.

there are 5 others on this post https://www.instagram.com/p/Bp5SOZOHjQR/
and his most recent offering ‘Three Postcards’ (swipe or click left)
brought a tear to the eye.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Chris McMillan
2018-11-04 11:28:51 UTC
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Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by Vicky Ayech
On Fri, 2 Nov 2018 17:25:54 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I've always thought the surest way to put a child off something - or, if
unlucky, of "classics" in general - is to have them "do" it for Eng.
Lit. 'O' level (or equivalent). And we _did_ have good teachers. I'll
never go near Joseph Conrad again. (Our Shak was R&J, which was OK [our
teacher took us to see the Fellini film], though not great [but UMRA
knows my views on the Shakespeare mafia].)
Well, we did Chaucer, though not for an exam I think, Conrad and
Shakespeare and the only one I hated was Conrad.
I never studied Conrad at any level. I still hate him.[1]
You're right, John; bad teaching can really damage enjoyment, but I
Even good teaching; the minute dissection required ... maybe different
at 'A' level ...
Post by Sid Nuncius
found that I rather liked most of what I did for O Level: 1984, Brave
New World, some war poetry and Oh, What A Lovely War and so on. I
didn't much care for Richard II because I couldn't really see the
point...until I saw Ben Wishaw's RII in The Hollow Crown series on the
BBC. But I didn't hate it.
I didn't hate any of what we did (Heart of Darkness, Modern Short
Stories, Romeo & Juliet). HoD was the one I came closest to hating.
Post by Sid Nuncius
The same is true for the music I studied for O Level: Brandenburg
Concerto No.1, Haydn's Lark Quartet and Strauss's Till Eulenspiegel
have remained favourites for almost half a century and sparked a
lifelong love of both Bach and Haydn for me. OTOH, we also had to
study Bartok's Mikrocosmos, which I loathed then and still loathe,
along with most of the rest of Bartok's output.
I guess all that means is that there's no hard and fast rule about
whether studying an artistic work will put a student off it, but for me
it generally didn't.
I suspect it might be different for music.
Post by Sid Nuncius
[1]"Hate" may be overstating it a bit, but I haven't enjoyed any of the
Conrad I've read.
I don't know if things have changed, but I think part of the problem
with Eng. Lit 'O' was that the selections were somewhat "worthy"; I
don't remember ever hearing of a modern, popular book being set -
detective, thriller, SF, ... . (It doesn't even have to have been
particularly "good" [though that's subjective anyway]: a "badly" written
book can still be analysed, at least to the level required for 'O'.)
We were given “Ring of Bright Water’, Gavin Maxwell, but it was a mistake:
that was for the 1969 CSE.

Sincerely Chris
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-11-04 12:38:28 UTC
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Permalink
[]
Post by Chris McMillan
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I don't know if things have changed, but I think part of the problem
with Eng. Lit 'O' was that the selections were somewhat "worthy"; I
don't remember ever hearing of a modern, popular book being set -
detective, thriller, SF, ... . (It doesn't even have to have been
particularly "good" [though that's subjective anyway]: a "badly" written
book can still be analysed, at least to the level required for 'O'.)
that was for the 1969 CSE.
Sincerely Chris
That would have been lovely. Lovely gentle film, too (whatwhatwhat?);
was on recently, possibly on Talking Pictures.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

(Incidentally, it was made in Spain so shouldn't it be a "paella western"?) -
Barry Norman [on "A Fistful of Dollars"], RT 2014/10/4-10
Vicky Ayech
2018-11-01 21:32:47 UTC
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Permalink
On Thu, 01 Nov 2018 19:13:54 GMT, Chris McMillan
Post by Chris McMillan
Have already lost the will to live. I remember these with horror.
Sincerely Chris
I loved them but it was the original language that was poetry.
Although I think I might have seen modern language versions. I want to
do something nasty to Lynda already.
Sally Thompson
2018-11-01 22:49:43 UTC
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Post by Vicky Ayech
On Thu, 01 Nov 2018 19:13:54 GMT, Chris McMillan
Post by Chris McMillan
Have already lost the will to live. I remember these with horror.
Sincerely Chris
I loved them but it was the original language that was poetry.
Although I think I might have seen modern language versions. I want to
do something nasty to Lynda already.
I loved them too. We had a brilliant English teacher and did them in the
original language, I think for A Level.
--
Sally in Shropshire, UK
Chris McMillan
2018-11-02 15:12:54 UTC
Reply
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Post by Sally Thompson
Post by Vicky Ayech
On Thu, 01 Nov 2018 19:13:54 GMT, Chris McMillan
Post by Chris McMillan
Have already lost the will to live. I remember these with horror.
Sincerely Chris
I loved them but it was the original language that was poetry.
Although I think I might have seen modern language versions. I want to
do something nasty to Lynda already.
I loved them too. We had a brilliant English teacher and did them in the
original language, I think for A Level.
O level for me.

Sincerely Chris
Peter Withey
2018-11-02 09:53:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 01 Nov 2018 21:32:47 +0000, Vicky Ayech
Post by Vicky Ayech
On Thu, 01 Nov 2018 19:13:54 GMT, Chris McMillan
Post by Chris McMillan
Have already lost the will to live. I remember these with horror.
Sincerely Chris
I loved them but it was the original language that was poetry.
Although I think I might have seen modern language versions. I want to
do something nasty to Lynda already.
Not with a "red-hot coulter", I hope
--
Pete
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