Discussion:
Ask EU: The Long and the Short of it
(too old to reply)
Nick Odell
2020-09-17 22:07:39 UTC
Permalink
Another financial crisis in Argentina (What? Is it Thursday again?)
and it suddenly dawns on me that the numbers on the screen are not
making sense because Argentina uses the long billion whilst the USA
uses the same short billion that Britain grudgingly went along with a
number of years ago.

A glance at Wikipedia tells me that most of continental Europe uses
the long billion and now I am getting confused: when the British press
reports on international financial matters, do they automatically
convert the big numbers into short billions for our consumption? I am
quite used to seeing an article quoting a figure in, say, Euros and
putting the equivalent in Sterling and US$ in brackets next to it but
do they adjust billions to short billions without saying anything
about it?

Thanks,

Nick

Nick
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2020-09-17 21:08:01 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 17 Sep 2020 at 19:07:39, Nick Odell
Post by Nick Odell
Another financial crisis in Argentina (What? Is it Thursday again?)
I always thought selling gramophone records in south America must have
been dangerous, because it says something on the label about revolutions
per minute ...
Post by Nick Odell
and it suddenly dawns on me that the numbers on the screen are not
making sense because Argentina uses the long billion whilst the USA
uses the same short billion that Britain grudgingly went along with a
number of years ago.
Oh, so pleased to find someone else who is unhappy that a billion
stopped being a million million!
Post by Nick Odell
A glance at Wikipedia tells me that most of continental Europe uses
the long billion and now I am getting confused: when the British press
I didn't know that!
Post by Nick Odell
reports on international financial matters, do they automatically
convert the big numbers into short billions for our consumption? I am
quite used to seeing an article quoting a figure in, say, Euros and
putting the equivalent in Sterling and US$ in brackets next to it but
do they adjust billions to short billions without saying anything
about it?
Presumably, as long as you're using the same sort of billion for all the
currencies ...
Post by Nick Odell
Thanks,
Nick
Nick
That makes me think of something ...
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

If you can't construct a coherent argument for the other side, you probably
don't understand your own opinion. - Scott Adams, 2015
Penny
2020-09-17 22:04:08 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 17 Sep 2020 22:08:01 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
On Thu, 17 Sep 2020 at 19:07:39, Nick Odell
Post by Nick Odell
Another financial crisis in Argentina (What? Is it Thursday again?)
and it suddenly dawns on me that the numbers on the screen are not
making sense because Argentina uses the long billion whilst the USA
uses the same short billion that Britain grudgingly went along with a
number of years ago.
Oh, so pleased to find someone else who is unhappy that a billion
stopped being a million million!
<waves> another over here.
It confused me for years - I must have missed the memo while busy producing
the next generation. The silly little billion makes no sense whatsoever to
me.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
DavidK
2020-09-18 08:14:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Penny
On Thu, 17 Sep 2020 22:08:01 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
On Thu, 17 Sep 2020 at 19:07:39, Nick Odell
Post by Nick Odell
Another financial crisis in Argentina (What? Is it Thursday again?)
and it suddenly dawns on me that the numbers on the screen are not
making sense because Argentina uses the long billion whilst the USA
uses the same short billion that Britain grudgingly went along with a
number of years ago.
Oh, so pleased to find someone else who is unhappy that a billion
stopped being a million million!
<waves> another over here.
It confused me for years - I must have missed the memo while busy producing
the next generation. The silly little billion makes no sense whatsoever to
me.
I disagree. I was initially annoyed at the change but I soon changed my
mind because a million million is such a large number that a name for a
thousand million is a lot more useful. I see the elegance of names for
10^3, 10^6, 10^12, 10^24 but it would make writing about large numbers
of electron-volts and light-years cumbersome.
Nick Leverton
2020-09-18 08:19:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by DavidK
Post by Penny
On Thu, 17 Sep 2020 22:08:01 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
On Thu, 17 Sep 2020 at 19:07:39, Nick Odell
Post by Nick Odell
Another financial crisis in Argentina (What? Is it Thursday again?)
and it suddenly dawns on me that the numbers on the screen are not
making sense because Argentina uses the long billion whilst the USA
uses the same short billion that Britain grudgingly went along with a
number of years ago.
Oh, so pleased to find someone else who is unhappy that a billion
stopped being a million million!
<waves> another over here.
It confused me for years - I must have missed the memo while busy producing
the next generation. The silly little billion makes no sense whatsoever to
me.
I disagree. I was initially annoyed at the change but I soon changed my
mind because a million million is such a large number that a name for a
thousand million is a lot more useful. I see the elegance of names for
10^3, 10^6, 10^12, 10^24 but it would make writing about large numbers
of electron-volts and light-years cumbersome.
We used to have a perfectly good word for a thousand million, "milliard".
Changing this to be called "billion" has added no clarity, only confusion
with the other meaning of "billion" a thousand times larger :-(

Nick
--
"The Internet, a sort of ersatz counterfeit of real life"
-- Janet Street-Porter, BBC2, 19th March 1996
Penny
2020-09-18 08:44:55 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 18 Sep 2020 08:19:01 +0000 (UTC), Nick Leverton <***@leverton.org>
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Nick Leverton
Post by DavidK
Post by Penny
On Thu, 17 Sep 2020 22:08:01 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
On Thu, 17 Sep 2020 at 19:07:39, Nick Odell
Post by Nick Odell
Another financial crisis in Argentina (What? Is it Thursday again?)
and it suddenly dawns on me that the numbers on the screen are not
making sense because Argentina uses the long billion whilst the USA
uses the same short billion that Britain grudgingly went along with a
number of years ago.
Oh, so pleased to find someone else who is unhappy that a billion
stopped being a million million!
<waves> another over here.
It confused me for years - I must have missed the memo while busy producing
the next generation. The silly little billion makes no sense whatsoever to
me.
I disagree. I was initially annoyed at the change but I soon changed my
mind because a million million is such a large number that a name for a
thousand million is a lot more useful. I see the elegance of names for
10^3, 10^6, 10^12, 10^24 but it would make writing about large numbers
of electron-volts and light-years cumbersome.
We used to have a perfectly good word for a thousand million, "milliard".
Changing this to be called "billion" has added no clarity, only confusion
with the other meaning of "billion" a thousand times larger :-(
Quite. The word is wrong, pick another one.
Mined ewe, in my early childhood, I assumed billion meant 2 million,
learning what it actually meant is probably why I was later appalled to
find it doesn't mean that anymore.

I blame the would-be billionaires.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
BrritSki
2020-09-18 08:23:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by DavidK
Post by Penny
On Thu, 17 Sep 2020 22:08:01 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
On Thu, 17 Sep 2020 at 19:07:39, Nick Odell
Post by Nick Odell
Another financial crisis in Argentina (What? Is it Thursday again?)
and it suddenly dawns on me that the numbers on the screen are not
making sense because Argentina uses the long billion whilst the USA
uses the same short billion that Britain grudgingly went along with a
number of years ago.
Oh, so pleased to find someone else who is unhappy that a billion
stopped being a million million!
<waves> another over here.
It confused me for years - I must have missed the memo while busy producing
the next generation. The silly little billion makes no sense
whatsoever to
me.
I disagree. I was initially annoyed at the change but I soon changed my
mind because a million million is such a large number that a name for a
thousand million is a lot more useful. I see the elegance of names for
10^3, 10^6, 10^12, 10^24 but it would make writing about large numbers
of electron-volts and light-years cumbersome.
<LW>
Peter
2020-09-18 09:40:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by DavidK
Post by Penny
On Thu, 17 Sep 2020 22:08:01 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
On Thu, 17 Sep 2020 at 19:07:39, Nick Odell
Post by Nick Odell
Another financial crisis in Argentina (What? Is it Thursday again?)
and it suddenly dawns on me that the numbers on the screen are not
making sense because Argentina uses the long billion whilst the USA
uses the same short billion that Britain grudgingly went along with a
number of years ago.
Oh, so pleased to find someone else who is unhappy that a billion
stopped being a million million!
<waves> another over here.
It confused me for years - I must have missed the memo while busy producing
the next generation. The silly little billion makes no sense
whatsoever to
me.
I disagree. I was initially annoyed at the change but I soon changed my
mind because a million million is such a large number that a name for a
thousand million is a lot more useful.
Milliard.

(You'll have heard of the brothers Ed and David Milliard.)
Post by DavidK
I see the elegance of names for
10^3, 10^6, 10^12, 10^24 but it would make writing about large numbers
of electron-volts and light-years cumbersome.
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2020-09-18 09:56:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by DavidK
Post by Penny
On Thu, 17 Sep 2020 22:08:01 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
On Thu, 17 Sep 2020 at 19:07:39, Nick Odell
[]
Post by DavidK
Post by Penny
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Nick Odell
uses the same short billion that Britain grudgingly went along with a
[]
Post by DavidK
Post by Penny
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Oh, so pleased to find someone else who is unhappy that a billion
stopped being a million million!
<waves> another over here.
It confused me for years - I must have missed the memo while busy producing
It never was much publicised, IIRR; there was a period when 10^9 was
referred to as an American billion, but I presume that was found too
cumbersome.
Post by DavidK
Post by Penny
the next generation. The silly little billion makes no sense whatsoever to
me.
(As another has said, maybe it's the would-be billionaires who are to
blame. [Are there any 10^12 billionaires?])
Post by DavidK
I disagree. I was initially annoyed at the change but I soon changed my
mind because a million million is such a large number that a name for a
thousand million is a lot more useful. I see the elegance of names for
10^3, 10^6, 10^12, 10^24 but it would make writing about large numbers
of electron-volts and light-years cumbersome.
Except the scientific world has had a prefix for every power of 10^3 for
ages. (Light-years don't come in more than about 93 billion, though I
grant that's easier to say/write than 93,000 million.)

And as another has also said, we had a name for 10^9 anyway. (And also a
prefix - not in the SI system - for 10^4: deka-.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"I'm very peachable, if people know how to peach" - Sir David Attenborough (on
being asked if he was tired of being described as impeachable), on Desert
Island Discs, 2012-1-29.
Nick Leverton
2020-09-18 10:28:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by DavidK
I disagree. I was initially annoyed at the change but I soon changed my
mind because a million million is such a large number that a name for a
thousand million is a lot more useful. I see the elegance of names for
10^3, 10^6, 10^12, 10^24 but it would make writing about large numbers
of electron-volts and light-years cumbersome.
Except the scientific world has had a prefix for every power of 10^3 for
ages. (Light-years don't come in more than about 93 billion, though I
grant that's easier to say/write than 93,000 million.)
And as another has also said, we had a name for 10^9 anyway. (And also a
prefix - not in the SI system - for 10^4: deka-.)
Deka- seems to be an alternative (American) spelling of deca-, 10^1

Giggle (TWATBILI) reminds me that the original prefix for 10^4 was myria- ,
and dates right back to the original French Revolutionary metric system.
<https://www.ibiblio.org/units/prefixes.html>
However it seems to have faded from use even more than hecto- for 10^2
which as far as I know chiefly survives nowadays in "hectare".

Nick
--
"The Internet, a sort of ersatz counterfeit of real life"
-- Janet Street-Porter, BBC2, 19th March 1996
Clive Arthur
2020-09-18 13:12:11 UTC
Permalink
On 18/09/2020 11:28, Nick Leverton wrote:

<snip>
Post by Nick Leverton
However it seems to have faded from use even more than hecto- for 10^2
which as far as I know chiefly survives nowadays in "hectare".
Nick
Hectopascals are often used as an alternative to millibars, hectogrammes
are a common unit in Italy - 'etto' or 'etti' (pl) short for ettogrammo
is used for buying things like cheese or ham.

As for the hectare, why oh why oh wahy is an 'are' not 1 square meter
and a 'vol' one cubic meter?

If your car does 10 litres/100 km (28mpg) then that reduces to 0.1 mm^2
which is about the area of a circle of 0.36 mm diameter. That
represents the average diameter of a 'filament' of fuel which you burn
as you drive along it.
--
Cheers
Clive
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2020-09-18 14:50:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clive Arthur
<snip>
Post by Nick Leverton
However it seems to have faded from use even more than hecto- for 10^2
which as far as I know chiefly survives nowadays in "hectare".
Nick
Hectolitres for (road) tankers, I think.
Post by Clive Arthur
Hectopascals are often used as an alternative to millibars,
hectogrammes are a common unit in Italy - 'etto' or 'etti' (pl) short
for ettogrammo is used for buying things like cheese or ham.
Like a quarter (to which it's very similar), I suspect a lot of people -
especially children - don't know what it's a hundred _of_ (or a quarter
of), or really think of it as a prefix. (I certainly didn't use to think
of a quarter of sweets as being a quarter of anything as such, just a
unit in itself.)
Post by Clive Arthur
As for the hectare, why oh why oh wahy is an 'are' not 1 square meter
and a 'vol' one cubic meter?
Good one! (Useful side one: a 10cm cube - a litre - of water weighs a
kilogramme, and a cubic metre a [metric] tonne. [OK, only at a specific
temperature, but close enough for most of us.])
Post by Clive Arthur
If your car does 10 litres/100 km (28mpg) then that reduces to 0.1 mm^2
which is about the area of a circle of 0.36 mm diameter. That
represents the average diameter of a 'filament' of fuel which you burn
as you drive along it.
Thought about like that, they're remarkably efficient! (And most even
more so; 28 MPG isn't that good these days.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

in the kingdom of the bland, the one idea is king. - Rory Bremner (on
politics), RT 2015/1/31-2/6
Peter
2020-09-18 15:40:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Good one! (Useful side one: a 10cm cube - a litre - of water weighs a
kilogramme, and a cubic metre a [metric] tonne. [OK, only at a specific
temperature, but close enough for most of us.])
There was a time when a cubic decimetre wasn't a litre because of some
error in measurement. Since then, litre has been defined to mean cubic
decimetre. Something like that. Or not.
Nick Odell
2020-09-18 22:27:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Good one! (Useful side one: a 10cm cube - a litre - of water weighs a
kilogramme, and a cubic metre a [metric] tonne. [OK, only at a specific
temperature, but close enough for most of us.])
There was a time when a cubic decimetre wasn't a litre because of some
error in measurement. Since then, litre has been defined to mean cubic
decimetre. Something like that. Or not.
Look: far be it from me to accuse the Americans of double-standards
but it looks as if until 2020 they had two, different methods for
measuring the foot.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/18/science/foot-surveying-metrology-dennis.html

Nick
Peter
2020-09-18 19:51:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Peter
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Good one! (Useful side one: a 10cm cube - a litre - of water weighs a
kilogramme, and a cubic metre a [metric] tonne. [OK, only at a specific
temperature, but close enough for most of us.])
There was a time when a cubic decimetre wasn't a litre because of some
error in measurement. Since then, litre has been defined to mean cubic
decimetre. Something like that. Or not.
Look: far be it from me to accuse the Americans of double-standards
but it looks as if until 2020 they had two, different methods for
measuring the foot.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/18/science/foot-surveying-metrology-dennis.html
Nick
Do you remember the Mars orbiter that was lost because an engineering
contractor was using imperial units and NASA was using metric units (or
vice versa) in navigation commands? I forget the details, but millions
of dollars worth of spacecraft crashed on Mars or flew into the Sun or
something.
Clive Arthur
2020-09-22 08:24:41 UTC
Permalink
On 18/09/2020 23:27, Nick Odell wrote:

<snip>
Post by Nick Odell
Look: far be it from me to accuse the Americans of double-standards
but it looks as if until 2020 they had two, different methods for
measuring the foot.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/18/science/foot-surveying-metrology-dennis.html
Nick
Which is heavier, an ounce of gold or an ounce of feathers?
--
Cheers
Clive
Jenny M Benson
2020-09-22 10:16:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clive Arthur
Which is heavier, an ounce of gold or an ounce of feathers?
When I was at Junior School - in preparation for the 11+, I think - we
had a Mental Arithmetic test every week. On one occasion, one of the
questions was something like "What is the cost of 1 ton of coal at £n
ton." We all thought it was a mistake and hands went up all across the
room as people wanted to ask the teacher about it. Apparently it was
deliberate.

(Isn't it odd the little incidents that are still so firmly fixed in the
mind well over 60 years later?! And so annoying when one can't remember
so much which is far more important.)
--
Jenny M Benson
Wrexham, UK
Peter
2020-09-22 10:29:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jenny M Benson
Post by Clive Arthur
Which is heavier, an ounce of gold or an ounce of feathers?
When I was at Junior School - in preparation for the 11+, I think - we
had a Mental Arithmetic test every week.  On one occasion, one of the
questions was something like "What is the cost of 1 ton of coal at £n
ton."  We all thought it was a mistake and hands went up all across the
room as people wanted to ask the teacher about it.  Apparently it was
deliberate.
(Isn't it odd the little incidents that are still so firmly fixed in the
mind well over 60 years later?!  And so annoying when one can't remember
so much which is far more important.)
One that I remember is "What can a blind man see through?" There were
three possible answers: a window and a plot were two of them and I don't
recall the thrid.
John Ashby
2020-09-22 11:12:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jenny M Benson
Post by Clive Arthur
Which is heavier, an ounce of gold or an ounce of feathers?
When I was at Junior School - in preparation for the 11+, I think - we
had a Mental Arithmetic test every week.  On one occasion, one of the
questions was something like "What is the cost of 1 ton of coal at £n
ton."  We all thought it was a mistake and hands went up all across
the room as people wanted to ask the teacher about it.  Apparently it
was deliberate.
(Isn't it odd the little incidents that are still so firmly fixed in
the mind well over 60 years later?!  And so annoying when one can't
remember so much which is far more important.)
One that I remember is "What can a blind man see through?"  There were
three possible answers: a window and a plot were two of them and I don't
recall the thrid.
A feeble excuse?

john
Mike
2020-09-22 11:13:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Ashby
Post by Jenny M Benson
Post by Clive Arthur
Which is heavier, an ounce of gold or an ounce of feathers?
When I was at Junior School - in preparation for the 11+, I think - we
had a Mental Arithmetic test every week.  On one occasion, one of the
questions was something like "What is the cost of 1 ton of coal at £n
ton."  We all thought it was a mistake and hands went up all across
the room as people wanted to ask the teacher about it.  Apparently it
was deliberate.
(Isn't it odd the little incidents that are still so firmly fixed in
the mind well over 60 years later?!  And so annoying when one can't
remember so much which is far more important.)
One that I remember is "What can a blind man see through?"  There were
three possible answers: a window and a plot were two of them and I don't
recall the thrid.
A feeble excuse?
john
Or a blatant lie.
--
Toodle Pip
Clive Arthur
2020-09-22 11:52:24 UTC
Permalink
On 22/09/2020 11:29, Peter wrote:

<snip>
One that I remember is "What can a blind man see through?"  There were
three possible answers: a window and a plot were two of them and I don't
recall the thrid.
It, to the bitter end.
--
Cheers
Clive
Clive Arthur
2020-09-22 11:48:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clive Arthur
<snip>
Post by Nick Odell
Look: far be it from me to accuse the Americans of double-standards
but it looks as if until 2020 they had two, different methods for
measuring the foot.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/18/science/foot-surveying-metrology-dennis.html
Nick
Which is heavier, an ounce of gold or an ounce of feathers?
An ounce of gold weighs about 31.10g, whereas an ounce of feathers
weighs about 28.35g.
--
Cheers
Clive
John Ashby
2020-09-22 12:52:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clive Arthur
Post by Clive Arthur
<snip>
Post by Nick Odell
Look: far be it from me to accuse the Americans of double-standards
but it looks as if until 2020 they had two, different methods for
measuring the foot.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/18/science/foot-surveying-metrology-dennis.html
Nick
Which is heavier, an ounce of gold or an ounce of feathers?
An ounce of gold weighs about 31.10g, whereas an ounce of feathers
weighs about 28.35g.
Nice troy!

john
Mike
2020-09-22 14:46:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Ashby
Post by Clive Arthur
Post by Clive Arthur
<snip>
Post by Nick Odell
Look: far be it from me to accuse the Americans of double-standards
but it looks as if until 2020 they had two, different methods for
measuring the foot.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/18/science/foot-surveying-metrology-dennis.html
Nick
Which is heavier, an ounce of gold or an ounce of feathers?
An ounce of gold weighs about 31.10g, whereas an ounce of feathers
weighs about 28.35g.
Nice troy!
john
No need to get assay about it though!
--
Toodle Pip
DavidK
2020-09-22 14:56:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clive Arthur
<snip>
Post by Nick Odell
Look: far be it from me to accuse the Americans of double-standards
but it looks as if until 2020 they had two, different methods for
measuring the foot.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/18/science/foot-surveying-metrology-dennis.html
Nick
Which is heavier, an ounce of gold or an ounce of feathers?
Not really relevant, but which is bigger? 2^30 or 3^20?
Jim Easterbrook
2020-09-22 15:04:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by DavidK
Post by Clive Arthur
<snip>
Post by Nick Odell
Look: far be it from me to accuse the Americans of double-standards
but it looks as if until 2020 they had two, different methods for
measuring the foot.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/18/science/foot-surveying-metrology-
dennis.html
Post by DavidK
Post by Clive Arthur
Post by Nick Odell
Nick
Which is heavier, an ounce of gold or an ounce of feathers?
Not really relevant, but which is bigger? 2^30 or 3^20?
2^30 = (2^3)^10 = 8^10
3^20 = (3^2)^10 = 9^10
--
Jim <http://www.jim-easterbrook.me.uk/>
1959/1985? M B+ G+ A L- I- S- P-- CH0(p) Ar++ T+ H0 Q--- Sh0
Peter
2020-09-22 15:17:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by DavidK
Post by Clive Arthur
<snip>
Post by Nick Odell
Look: far be it from me to accuse the Americans of double-standards
but it looks as if until 2020 they had two, different methods for
measuring the foot.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/18/science/foot-surveying-metrology-dennis.html
Nick
Which is heavier, an ounce of gold or an ounce of feathers?
Not really relevant, but which is bigger? 2^30 or 3^20?
The latter I would think.
Anne B
2020-09-22 17:23:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by DavidK
Post by Clive Arthur
<snip>
Post by Nick Odell
Look: far be it from me to accuse the Americans of double-standards
but it looks as if until 2020 they had two, different methods for
measuring the foot.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/18/science/foot-surveying-metrology-dennis.html
Nick
Which is heavier, an ounce of gold or an ounce of feathers?
Not really relevant, but which is bigger? 2^30 or 3^20?
The latter.

Anne B
krw
2020-09-18 13:33:40 UTC
Permalink
(And also a prefix - not in the SI system - for 10^4: deka-.)
So if it is 10^8 is that a double deka or a desmond deka?
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
krw
2020-09-18 13:31:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Penny
On Thu, 17 Sep 2020 22:08:01 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
On Thu, 17 Sep 2020 at 19:07:39, Nick Odell
Post by Nick Odell
Another financial crisis in Argentina (What? Is it Thursday again?)
and it suddenly dawns on me that the numbers on the screen are not
making sense because Argentina uses the long billion whilst the USA
uses the same short billion that Britain grudgingly went along with a
number of years ago.
Oh, so pleased to find someone else who is unhappy that a billion
stopped being a million million!
<waves> another over here.
It confused me for years - I must have missed the memo while busy producing
the next generation. The silly little billion makes no sense whatsoever to
me.
It just makes it so easy to become a billionaire.
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
Peter
2020-09-18 13:35:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by krw
Post by Penny
On Thu, 17 Sep 2020 22:08:01 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
On Thu, 17 Sep 2020 at 19:07:39, Nick Odell
Post by Nick Odell
Another financial crisis in Argentina (What? Is it Thursday again?)
and it suddenly dawns on me that the numbers on the screen are not
making sense because Argentina uses the long billion whilst the USA
uses the same short billion that Britain grudgingly went along with a
number of years ago.
Oh, so pleased to find someone else who is unhappy that a billion
stopped being a million million!
<waves> another over here.
It confused me for years - I must have missed the memo while busy producing
the next generation. The silly little billion makes no sense
whatsoever to
me.
It just makes it so easy to become a billionaire.
There is an old joke: how do you make a million? Make ten million and
invest it in a West End show.

But that was when a million really was a million.
krw
2020-09-18 14:22:46 UTC
Permalink
There is an old joke: how do you make a million?  Make ten million and
invest it in a West End show.
I have heard Sir John Madjeski make exactly the same remark about buying
a football team!
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
Clive Arthur
2020-09-18 15:01:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by krw
There is an old joke: how do you make a million?  Make ten million and
invest it in a West End show.
I have heard Sir John Madjeski make exactly the same remark about buying
a football team!
Madejski (mad-Ay-ski).

(My wife's aunt used to look after his mother's cats on occasion.)
--
Cheers
Clive
krw
2020-09-18 15:12:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clive Arthur
Post by krw
There is an old joke: how do you make a million?  Make ten million
and invest it in a West End show.
I have heard Sir John Madjeski make exactly the same remark about
buying a football team!
Madejski (mad-Ay-ski).
(My wife's aunt used to look after his mother's cats on occasion.)
Thank you. I knew I should have looked it up.
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
Peter
2020-09-18 15:55:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clive Arthur
Post by krw
There is an old joke: how do you make a million?  Make ten million
and invest it in a West End show.
I have heard Sir John Madjeski make exactly the same remark about
buying a football team!
Madejski (mad-Ay-ski).
(My wife's aunt used to look after his mother's cats on occasion.)
Thank you.  I knew I should have looked it up.
In a cat-a-logue, with no pussy-ing around, you'll find the purr-fect
answer.
Chris McMillan
2020-09-19 13:24:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by krw
Post by Clive Arthur
Post by krw
There is an old joke: how do you make a million?  Make ten million
and invest it in a West End show.
I have heard Sir John Madjeski make exactly the same remark about
buying a football team!
Madejski (mad-Ay-ski).
(My wife's aunt used to look after his mother's cats on occasion.)
Thank you. I knew I should have looked it up.
-:). Not quite local enuff, KRW.

I’ve never met him, but McT had a mic in front of him three times a year at
graduation ceremonies. He has been Chancellor of uni of Rdg.

Sincerely Chris
Mike
2020-09-18 15:40:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clive Arthur
Post by krw
There is an old joke: how do you make a million?  Make ten million and
invest it in a West End show.
I have heard Sir John Madjeski make exactly the same remark about buying
a football team!
Madejski (mad-Ay-ski).
(My wife's aunt used to look after his mother's cats on occasion.)
And I have ‘miked’ him up a number of times at ceremonies (he is a very
hesitant public speaker).
--
Toodle Pip
Chris McMillan
2020-09-19 13:24:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clive Arthur
Post by krw
There is an old joke: how do you make a million?  Make ten million and
invest it in a West End show.
I have heard Sir John Madjeski make exactly the same remark about buying
a football team!
Madejski (mad-Ay-ski).
(My wife's aunt used to look after his mother's cats on occasion.)
Nice nicker flash there, Clive!

Sincerely Chris
Mike
2020-09-18 07:33:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
On Thu, 17 Sep 2020 at 19:07:39, Nick Odell
Post by Nick Odell
Another financial crisis in Argentina (What? Is it Thursday again?)
I always thought selling gramophone records in south America must have
been dangerous, because it says something on the label about revolutions
per minute ...
Post by Nick Odell
and it suddenly dawns on me that the numbers on the screen are not
making sense because Argentina uses the long billion whilst the USA
uses the same short billion that Britain grudgingly went along with a
number of years ago.
Oh, so pleased to find someone else who is unhappy that a billion
stopped being a million million!
Post by Nick Odell
A glance at Wikipedia tells me that most of continental Europe uses
the long billion and now I am getting confused: when the British press
I didn't know that!
Post by Nick Odell
reports on international financial matters, do they automatically
convert the big numbers into short billions for our consumption? I am
quite used to seeing an article quoting a figure in, say, Euros and
putting the equivalent in Sterling and US$ in brackets next to it but
do they adjust billions to short billions without saying anything
about it?
Presumably, as long as you're using the same sort of billion for all the
currencies ...
Post by Nick Odell
Thanks,
Nick
Nick
That makes me think of something ...
And another thing about South America, did you know that you can’t get
supplies of Aspirin in the Amazon Basin? I’m told it is because the
paracetamol. (IGMC).
--
Toodle Pip
Paul Herber
2020-09-18 13:08:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
On Thu, 17 Sep 2020 at 19:07:39, Nick Odell
Post by Nick Odell
Another financial crisis in Argentina (What? Is it Thursday again?)
I always thought selling gramophone records in south America must have
been dangerous, because it says something on the label about revolutions
per minute ...
Post by Nick Odell
and it suddenly dawns on me that the numbers on the screen are not
making sense because Argentina uses the long billion whilst the USA
uses the same short billion that Britain grudgingly went along with a
number of years ago.
Oh, so pleased to find someone else who is unhappy that a billion
stopped being a million million!
Post by Nick Odell
A glance at Wikipedia tells me that most of continental Europe uses
the long billion and now I am getting confused: when the British press
I didn't know that!
Post by Nick Odell
reports on international financial matters, do they automatically
convert the big numbers into short billions for our consumption? I am
quite used to seeing an article quoting a figure in, say, Euros and
putting the equivalent in Sterling and US$ in brackets next to it but
do they adjust billions to short billions without saying anything
about it?
Presumably, as long as you're using the same sort of billion for all the
currencies ...
Post by Nick Odell
Thanks,
Nick
Nick
That makes me think of something ...
And another thing about South America, did you know that you can’t get
supplies of Aspirin in the Amazon Basin? I’m told it is because the
paracetamol. (IGMC).
You are trying to palm us off with all your oldest puns!
--
Regards, Paul Herber
https://www.paulherber.co.uk/
Mike
2020-09-18 13:12:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Herber
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
On Thu, 17 Sep 2020 at 19:07:39, Nick Odell
Post by Nick Odell
Another financial crisis in Argentina (What? Is it Thursday again?)
I always thought selling gramophone records in south America must have
been dangerous, because it says something on the label about revolutions
per minute ...
Post by Nick Odell
and it suddenly dawns on me that the numbers on the screen are not
making sense because Argentina uses the long billion whilst the USA
uses the same short billion that Britain grudgingly went along with a
number of years ago.
Oh, so pleased to find someone else who is unhappy that a billion
stopped being a million million!
Post by Nick Odell
A glance at Wikipedia tells me that most of continental Europe uses
the long billion and now I am getting confused: when the British press
I didn't know that!
Post by Nick Odell
reports on international financial matters, do they automatically
convert the big numbers into short billions for our consumption? I am
quite used to seeing an article quoting a figure in, say, Euros and
putting the equivalent in Sterling and US$ in brackets next to it but
do they adjust billions to short billions without saying anything
about it?
Presumably, as long as you're using the same sort of billion for all the
currencies ...
Post by Nick Odell
Thanks,
Nick
Nick
That makes me think of something ...
And another thing about South America, did you know that you can’t get
supplies of Aspirin in the Amazon Basin? I’m told it is because the
paracetamol. (IGMC).
You are trying to palm us off with all your oldest puns!
Oil try harder next time.
--
Toodle Pip
Steve Hague
2020-09-20 15:50:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
On Thu, 17 Sep 2020 at 19:07:39, Nick Odell
Post by Nick Odell
Another financial crisis in Argentina (What? Is it Thursday again?)
I always thought selling gramophone records in south America must have
been dangerous, because it says something on the label about revolutions
per minute ...
Post by Nick Odell
and it suddenly dawns on me that the numbers on the screen are not
making sense because Argentina uses the long billion whilst the USA
uses the same short billion that Britain grudgingly went along with a
number of years ago.
Oh, so pleased to find someone else who is unhappy that a billion
stopped being a million million!
Post by Nick Odell
A glance at Wikipedia tells me that most of continental Europe uses
the long billion and now I am getting confused: when the British press
I didn't know that!
Post by Nick Odell
reports on international financial matters, do they automatically
convert the big numbers into short billions for our consumption? I am
quite used to seeing an article quoting a figure in, say, Euros and
putting the equivalent in Sterling and US$ in brackets next to it but
do they adjust billions to short billions without saying anything
about it?
Presumably, as long as you're using the same sort of billion for all the
currencies ...
Post by Nick Odell
Thanks,
Nick
Nick
That makes me think of something ...
Finance has always been a mystery to me. It seems money doesn't actually
get made, it just changes hands. We seem to be heading towards a
cashless society where it will only exist at all in an electronic form.
I still insist on a billion being a million millions, but can't concieve
of those sort of numbers, so perhaps I'm just being pedantic.
Peter
2020-09-20 16:56:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Hague
Finance has always been a mystery to me. It seems money doesn't actually
get made, it just changes hands. We seem to be heading towards a
cashless society where it will only exist at all in an electronic form.
I still insist on a billion being a million millions, but can't concieve
of those sort of numbers, so perhaps I'm just being pedantic.
The sun suggests that keeping a few notes and coins to hand is probably
a good idea. That's the sun, not The Sun: solar activity may disrupt
electricity grids and telecommunications. Credit card and smartphone
transactions may be well-and-truly pyjamaed.
Mike
2020-09-20 17:15:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter
Post by Steve Hague
Finance has always been a mystery to me. It seems money doesn't actually
get made, it just changes hands. We seem to be heading towards a
cashless society where it will only exist at all in an electronic form.
I still insist on a billion being a million millions, but can't concieve
of those sort of numbers, so perhaps I'm just being pedantic.
The sun suggests that keeping a few notes and coins to hand is probably
a good idea. That's the sun, not The Sun: solar activity may disrupt
electricity grids and telecommunications. Credit card and smartphone
transactions may be well-and-truly pyjamaed.
Oh well, it’s back to bartering with that pig’s head and the odd bushel of
corn then! I haven’t noticed a conversion table on the price boxes in
Amazon pages....
--
Toodle Pip
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2020-09-20 19:09:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike
Post by Peter
Post by Steve Hague
Finance has always been a mystery to me. It seems money doesn't actually
get made, it just changes hands. We seem to be heading towards a
cashless society where it will only exist at all in an electronic form.
It hasn't had an intrinsic value for a century, if not several; whether
electronic or paper (and now plastic) and copper/cupronickel (and now
steel), it isn't worth its face value. (Actually, the copper was -
that's why they started putting a steel core in them a few years ago!)
Post by Mike
Post by Peter
Post by Steve Hague
I still insist on a billion being a million millions, but can't concieve
of those sort of numbers, so perhaps I'm just being pedantic.
The sun suggests that keeping a few notes and coins to hand is probably
a good idea. That's the sun, not The Sun: solar activity may disrupt
electricity grids and telecommunications. Credit card and smartphone
Plus if you want to shop when you're supposed to be self-imprisoning.
(I'm sure Big Brother will get access to your card spending details.)
Don't go by car though - ANPR ...
Post by Mike
Post by Peter
transactions may be well-and-truly pyjamaed.
I've not heard Pyjamaed before!
Post by Mike
Oh well, it’s back to bartering with that pig’s head and the odd bushel of
corn then! I haven’t noticed a conversion table on the price boxes in
Amazon pages....
(-:
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Her [Valerie Singleton's] main job on /Blue Peter/ was to stop unpredictable
creatres running amok. And that was just John Noakes.
- Alison Pearson, RT 2014/9/6-12
Peter
2020-09-20 19:21:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Mike
Post by Peter
Post by Steve Hague
Finance has always been a mystery to me. It seems money doesn't actually
get made, it just changes hands. We seem to be heading towards a
cashless society where it will only exist at all in an electronic form.
It hasn't had an intrinsic value for a century, if not several; whether
electronic or paper (and now plastic) and copper/cupronickel (and now
steel), it isn't worth its face value. (Actually, the copper was -
that's why they started putting a steel core in them a few years ago!)
Post by Mike
Post by Peter
Post by Steve Hague
I still insist on a billion being a million millions, but can't concieve
of those sort of numbers, so perhaps I'm just being pedantic.
The sun suggests that keeping a few notes and coins to hand is probably
a good idea.  That's the sun, not The Sun: solar activity may disrupt
electricity grids and telecommunications.  Credit card and smartphone
Plus if you want to shop when you're supposed to be self-imprisoning.
(I'm sure Big Brother will get access to your card spending details.)
Don't go by car though - ANPR ...
Post by Mike
Post by Peter
transactions may be well-and-truly pyjamaed.
I've not heard Pyjamaed before!
It's like nadgered with the added advantage of being in the dictionary.
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Mike
Oh well, it’s back to bartering with that pig’s head and the odd bushel of
corn then! I haven’t noticed a conversion table on the price boxes in
Amazon pages....
Steve Hague
2020-09-21 08:10:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Steve Hague
Finance has always been a mystery to me. It seems money doesn't actually
get made, it just changes hands. We seem to be heading towards a
cashless society where it will only exist at all in an electronic form.
It hasn't had an intrinsic value for a century, if not several;
whether electronic or paper (and now plastic) and copper/cupronickel
(and now steel), it isn't worth its face value. (Actually, the copper
was - that's why they started putting a steel core in them a few years
ago!)
I wasn't aware of that, but noticed 'copper' coins sticking to magnets a
few years ago, so drew my own conclusions.
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2020-09-21 10:31:28 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 21 Sep 2020 at 09:10:42, Steve Hague <***@gmail.com>
wrote:
[]
[]
Post by Steve Hague
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
It hasn't had an intrinsic value for a century, if not several;
whether electronic or paper (and now plastic) and copper/cupronickel
(and now steel), it isn't worth its face value. (Actually, the copper
was - that's why they started putting a steel core in them a few years ago!)
I wasn't aware of that, but noticed 'copper' coins sticking to magnets
a few years ago, so drew my own conclusions.
I believe it's happened twice: the old pre-decimal pennies (d!) were I
believe worth rather a lot more than their face value in scrap, to the
extent that it became a significant problem to the mint; according to
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gresham%27s_law#Examples, 1992 is when the
UK 1p and 2p change (they were actually bronze; now copper-plated
steel).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coins_of_the_pound_sterling is of course
interesting to those interested (and even to those who didn't think they
were!). 5p and 10p changed from cupronickel to nickel-plated steel in
2012.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

As individuals, politicians are usually quite charming, so it is quite hard to
dislike them, but in most cases, it is worth making the effort.
- Mark Williams (UMRA), 2013-4-26
Penny
2020-09-21 13:58:55 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 21 Sep 2020 11:31:28 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coins_of_the_pound_sterling is of course
interesting to those interested (and even to those who didn't think they
were!). 5p and 10p changed from cupronickel to nickel-plated steel in
2012.
Ooo, I hadn't noticed that - so I could stick four parts of the shield to
my tin :) <goes to find another magnet>
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Peter
2020-09-25 17:54:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter
Post by Steve Hague
Finance has always been a mystery to me. It seems money doesn't
actually get made, it just changes hands. We seem to be heading
towards a cashless society where it will only exist at all in an
electronic form. I still insist on a billion being a million millions,
but can't concieve of those sort of numbers, so perhaps I'm just being
pedantic.
The sun suggests that keeping a few notes and coins to hand is probably
a good idea.
Those who doubt it should read Brritski's post of 8:24 today.
Post by Peter
That's the sun, not The Sun: solar activity may disrupt
electricity grids and telecommunications.  Credit card and smartphone
transactions may be well-and-truly pyjamaed.
Chris McMillan
2020-09-21 15:19:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Hague
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
On Thu, 17 Sep 2020 at 19:07:39, Nick Odell
Post by Nick Odell
Another financial crisis in Argentina (What? Is it Thursday again?)
I always thought selling gramophone records in south America must have
been dangerous, because it says something on the label about revolutions
per minute ...
Post by Nick Odell
and it suddenly dawns on me that the numbers on the screen are not
making sense because Argentina uses the long billion whilst the USA
uses the same short billion that Britain grudgingly went along with a
number of years ago.
Oh, so pleased to find someone else who is unhappy that a billion
stopped being a million million!
Post by Nick Odell
A glance at Wikipedia tells me that most of continental Europe uses
the long billion and now I am getting confused: when the British press
I didn't know that!
Post by Nick Odell
reports on international financial matters, do they automatically
convert the big numbers into short billions for our consumption? I am
quite used to seeing an article quoting a figure in, say, Euros and
putting the equivalent in Sterling and US$ in brackets next to it but
do they adjust billions to short billions without saying anything
about it?
Presumably, as long as you're using the same sort of billion for all the
currencies ...
Post by Nick Odell
Thanks,
Nick
Nick
That makes me think of something ...
Finance has always been a mystery to me. It seems money doesn't actually
get made, it just changes hands. We seem to be heading towards a
cashless society where it will only exist at all in an electronic form.
I still insist on a billion being a million millions, but can't concieve
of those sort of numbers, so perhaps I'm just being pedantic.
And, as McT and I found out on paying for our brekkers at 08.45 the other
morning and the till computer had failed, we had to dig out real money.

Sincerely Chris
Sam Plusnet
2020-09-21 19:32:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris McMillan
Post by Steve Hague
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
On Thu, 17 Sep 2020 at 19:07:39, Nick Odell
Post by Nick Odell
Another financial crisis in Argentina (What? Is it Thursday again?)
I always thought selling gramophone records in south America must have
been dangerous, because it says something on the label about revolutions
per minute ...
Post by Nick Odell
and it suddenly dawns on me that the numbers on the screen are not
making sense because Argentina uses the long billion whilst the USA
uses the same short billion that Britain grudgingly went along with a
number of years ago.
Oh, so pleased to find someone else who is unhappy that a billion
stopped being a million million!
Post by Nick Odell
A glance at Wikipedia tells me that most of continental Europe uses
the long billion and now I am getting confused: when the British press
I didn't know that!
Post by Nick Odell
reports on international financial matters, do they automatically
convert the big numbers into short billions for our consumption? I am
quite used to seeing an article quoting a figure in, say, Euros and
putting the equivalent in Sterling and US$ in brackets next to it but
do they adjust billions to short billions without saying anything
about it?
Presumably, as long as you're using the same sort of billion for all the
currencies ...
Post by Nick Odell
Thanks,
Nick
Nick
That makes me think of something ...
Finance has always been a mystery to me. It seems money doesn't actually
get made, it just changes hands. We seem to be heading towards a
cashless society where it will only exist at all in an electronic form.
I still insist on a billion being a million millions, but can't concieve
of those sort of numbers, so perhaps I'm just being pedantic.
And, as McT and I found out on paying for our brekkers at 08.45 the other
morning and the till computer had failed, we had to dig out real money.
I finally used a coin late last week (a £1 coin in a supermarket
trolley) - this being the first coin-usage since mid March.
--
Sam Plusnet
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2020-09-21 19:50:48 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 21 Sep 2020 at 20:32:03, Sam Plusnet <***@home.com> wrote:
[]
Post by Sam Plusnet
I finally used a coin late last week (a £1 coin in a supermarket
trolley) - this being the first coin-usage since mid March.
I have one of those tokens on my keyring, so don't even need it for
that. (Unfortunately it's for the old type of pound coin; works in the
trolleys in the Ashford Lidl, but not the Byker [Newcastle] Morrisons.)
I am now trying to think when I last _did_ use money (coin or note); I
think it _was_ this year, as I remember noting the fact, but I can't
remember where/when now.

I did read that the mint aren't going to release any of certain
denominations - I think it might have been 20p and 50p - this year;
they've struck some, but aren't releasing them as there doesn't seem to
be a need. (Maybe it was the start of this thread where I read it!)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

A good pun is its own reword.
Clive Arthur
2020-09-22 08:37:15 UTC
Permalink
On 21/09/2020 20:50, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

<snip>
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I did read that the mint aren't going to release any of certain
denominations - I think it might have been 20p and 50p - this year;
they've struck some, but aren't releasing them as there doesn't seem to
be a need. (Maybe it was the start of this thread where I read it!)
It's 2p and £2 coins.

2p is near as dammit 1/4 oz, so that's 128p to the lb whereas 2d would
be 2/3 oz so 240d to the lb.

A useful one is that 20p is 5g which saves looking behind the fridge for
the lost weight. And one A4 sheet of 80gsm paper is also 5g, A0 being 1
square metre.
--
Cheers
Clive
Chris McMillan
2020-09-23 08:53:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Chris McMillan
Post by Steve Hague
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
On Thu, 17 Sep 2020 at 19:07:39, Nick Odell
Post by Nick Odell
Another financial crisis in Argentina (What? Is it Thursday again?)
I always thought selling gramophone records in south America must have
been dangerous, because it says something on the label about revolutions
per minute ...
Post by Nick Odell
and it suddenly dawns on me that the numbers on the screen are not
making sense because Argentina uses the long billion whilst the USA
uses the same short billion that Britain grudgingly went along with a
number of years ago.
Oh, so pleased to find someone else who is unhappy that a billion
stopped being a million million!
Post by Nick Odell
A glance at Wikipedia tells me that most of continental Europe uses
the long billion and now I am getting confused: when the British press
I didn't know that!
Post by Nick Odell
reports on international financial matters, do they automatically
convert the big numbers into short billions for our consumption? I am
quite used to seeing an article quoting a figure in, say, Euros and
putting the equivalent in Sterling and US$ in brackets next to it but
do they adjust billions to short billions without saying anything
about it?
Presumably, as long as you're using the same sort of billion for all the
currencies ...
Post by Nick Odell
Thanks,
Nick
Nick
That makes me think of something ...
Finance has always been a mystery to me. It seems money doesn't actually
get made, it just changes hands. We seem to be heading towards a
cashless society where it will only exist at all in an electronic form.
I still insist on a billion being a million millions, but can't concieve
of those sort of numbers, so perhaps I'm just being pedantic.
And, as McT and I found out on paying for our brekkers at 08.45 the other
morning and the till computer had failed, we had to dig out real money.
I finally used a coin late last week (a £1 coin in a supermarket
trolley) - this being the first coin-usage since mid March.
We have managed to hold onto one Lidl trolley token!

Sincerely Chris
Penny
2020-09-23 12:12:17 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 23 Sep 2020 08:53:38 GMT, Chris McMillan
Post by Chris McMillan
We have managed to hold onto one Lidl trolley token!
Lidl is the only supermarket here which still requires a 'deposit' to
borrow its trolleys. I was pleased to find the round-pound token on my key
ring (which I found on the street years ago) still fits Lidl trolleys.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Clive Arthur
2020-09-23 13:10:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Penny
On Wed, 23 Sep 2020 08:53:38 GMT, Chris McMillan
Post by Chris McMillan
We have managed to hold onto one Lidl trolley token!
Lidl is the only supermarket here which still requires a 'deposit' to
borrow its trolleys. I was pleased to find the round-pound token on my key
ring (which I found on the street years ago) still fits Lidl trolleys.
My keyring token can be withdrawn as soon as the trolley is released.

I am such a rebel.
--
Cheers
Clive
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2020-09-23 14:31:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clive Arthur
Post by Penny
On Wed, 23 Sep 2020 08:53:38 GMT, Chris McMillan
Post by Chris McMillan
We have managed to hold onto one Lidl trolley token!
Lidl is the only supermarket here which still requires a 'deposit' to
borrow its trolleys. I was pleased to find the round-pound token on my key
ring (which I found on the street years ago) still fits Lidl trolleys.
My keyring token can be withdrawn as soon as the trolley is released.
I am such a rebel.
I was once recommended to do that by a Lidl employee: rather than leave
your car-keys dangling from the trolley, where anyone could snatch them.
(OK, you can take the token off the keyring, but that's sufficient
bother that you might as well use the coin anyway.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Of course, this show - like every other cop show on earth - massively
overstates the prevalence of violent crime: last year, in the whole of the UK,
police fired their weapons just three times. And there were precisely zero
fatalities. - Vincent Graff in RT, 2014/11/8-14
Penny
2020-09-23 15:25:31 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 23 Sep 2020 15:31:03 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Clive Arthur
Post by Penny
On Wed, 23 Sep 2020 08:53:38 GMT, Chris McMillan
Post by Chris McMillan
We have managed to hold onto one Lidl trolley token!
Lidl is the only supermarket here which still requires a 'deposit' to
borrow its trolleys. I was pleased to find the round-pound token on my key
ring (which I found on the street years ago) still fits Lidl trolleys.
My keyring token can be withdrawn as soon as the trolley is released.
I am such a rebel.
I was once recommended to do that by a Lidl employee: rather than leave
your car-keys dangling from the trolley, where anyone could snatch them.
(OK, you can take the token off the keyring, but that's sufficient
bother that you might as well use the coin anyway.)
Mine is on a safety-pin-style clip which is fixed to the key ring. It's a
bit fiddly to unclip but gives me something to do while walking to the
trolley stash. I've just come back from Lidl. There was a woman wanting a
token for the trolley (I'd no idea they had such things) because she had no
change. The chap on the till lent her a £1 coin from the till, saying all
the tokens had been nicked.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Sam Plusnet
2020-09-23 19:58:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clive Arthur
Post by Penny
On Wed, 23 Sep 2020 08:53:38 GMT, Chris McMillan
Post by Chris McMillan
We have managed to hold onto one Lidl trolley token!
Lidl is the only supermarket here which still requires a 'deposit' to
borrow its trolleys. I was pleased to find the round-pound token on my key
ring (which I found on the street years ago) still fits Lidl trolleys.
My keyring token can be withdrawn as soon as the trolley is released.
I am such a rebel.
People like you will bring civilisation crashing to its knees.

(If civilisations had knees.)

P.S. I wonder if Assyrian War Chariots needed tokens? You may have
provided new insights into the fall of a great empire.
--
Sam Plusnet
Sam Plusnet
2020-09-17 21:17:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nick Odell
Another financial crisis in Argentina (What? Is it Thursday again?)
and it suddenly dawns on me that the numbers on the screen are not
making sense because Argentina uses the long billion whilst the USA
uses the same short billion that Britain grudgingly went along with a
number of years ago.
A glance at Wikipedia tells me that most of continental Europe uses
the long billion and now I am getting confused: when the British press
reports on international financial matters, do they automatically
convert the big numbers into short billions for our consumption? I am
quite used to seeing an article quoting a figure in, say, Euros and
putting the equivalent in Sterling and US$ in brackets next to it but
do they adjust billions to short billions without saying anything
about it?
Financial matters must surely be getting to the point where only
exponential notation is viable.

"The National Debt has reached £10^16, but the Chancellor said..."
--
Sam Plusnet
Clive Arthur
2020-09-25 08:04:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nick Odell
Another financial crisis in Argentina (What? Is it Thursday again?)
and it suddenly dawns on me that the numbers on the screen are not
making sense because Argentina uses the long billion whilst the USA
uses the same short billion that Britain grudgingly went along with a
number of years ago.
A glance at Wikipedia tells me that most of continental Europe uses
the long billion and now I am getting confused: when the British press
reports on international financial matters, do they automatically
convert the big numbers into short billions for our consumption? I am
quite used to seeing an article quoting a figure in, say, Euros and
putting the equivalent in Sterling and US$ in brackets next to it but
do they adjust billions to short billions without saying anything
about it?
Thanks,
Nick
Nick
If a million is 10^6, then 10^9 should be an 'on' and 10^12 a kilo-on.

Just my twenty pico-on's worth.
--
Cheers
Clive
Paul Herber
2020-09-25 10:35:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clive Arthur
Post by Nick Odell
Another financial crisis in Argentina (What? Is it Thursday again?)
and it suddenly dawns on me that the numbers on the screen are not
making sense because Argentina uses the long billion whilst the USA
uses the same short billion that Britain grudgingly went along with a
number of years ago.
A glance at Wikipedia tells me that most of continental Europe uses
the long billion and now I am getting confused: when the British press
reports on international financial matters, do they automatically
convert the big numbers into short billions for our consumption? I am
quite used to seeing an article quoting a figure in, say, Euros and
putting the equivalent in Sterling and US$ in brackets next to it but
do they adjust billions to short billions without saying anything
about it?
Thanks,
Nick
Nick
If a million is 10^6, then 10^9 should be an 'on' and 10^12 a kilo-on.
Just my twenty pico-on's worth.
femto very much for that.
--
Regards, Paul Herber
https://www.paulherber.co.uk/
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