AIAOU? Does anyone else find this implausible?

[nick]

That Boris Johnson, instigator of the photo-id to vote laws should forget
to take his photo-id to vote in the local election?

Nick

[john ashby]

Post by nick
That Boris Johnson, instigator of the photo-id to vote laws should forget
to take his photo-id to vote in the local election?
Nick

[Originally e-mailed in error]

No, it's completely in character.

It also makes me feel a bit better about being asked for photo id by my
son-in-law.

john

[Vicky]

Post by john ashby

Post by nick
That Boris Johnson, instigator of the photo-id to vote laws should forget
to take his photo-id to vote in the local election?
Nick

[Originally e-mailed in error]
No, it's completely in character.
It also makes me feel a bit better about being asked for photo id by my
son-in-law.
john

I think he just stuck his chest out, drew himself up to his full
height and said 'Do you know who I am???'

[john ashby]

Post by Vicky

Post by john ashby

Post by nick
That Boris Johnson, instigator of the photo-id to vote laws should forget
to take his photo-id to vote in the local election?
Nick

[Originally e-mailed in error]
No, it's completely in character.
It also makes me feel a bit better about being asked for photo id by my
son-in-law.
john

I think he just stuck his chest out, drew himself up to his full
height and said 'Do you know who I am???'

I tried that and spent a hour being assessed for dementia.

john

[BrritSki]

Post by john ashby

Post by Vicky

Post by john ashby

Post by nick
That Boris Johnson, instigator of the photo-id to vote laws should forget
to take his photo-id to vote in the local election?
Nick

[Originally e-mailed in error]
No, it's completely in character.
It also makes me feel a bit better about being asked for photo id by my
son-in-law.
john

I think he just stuck his chest out, drew himself up to his full
height and said 'Do you know who I am???'

I tried that and spent a hour being assessed for dementia.

Tony Blair tried it in an old people's home when talking to an old lady.

"No dear, but you ask Matron - she'll know" the old dear replied.

[Jim Easterbrook]

Post by BrritSki
Tony Blair tried it in an old people's home when talking to an old lady.
"No dear, but you ask Matron - she'll know" the old dear replied.

There's a similar story about Churchill visiting a psychiatric hospital.

"Hello, I'm Sir Winston Churchill"

"Don't worry old chap, I thought I was Napoleon when they brought me
here."

[DavidK]

Post by BrritSki

Post by john ashby

Post by Vicky

Post by john ashby

Post by nick
That Boris Johnson, instigator of the photo-id to vote laws should forget
to take his photo-id to vote in the local election?
Nick

[Originally e-mailed in error]
No, it's completely in character.
It also makes me feel a bit better about being asked for photo id by my
son-in-law.
john

I think he just stuck his chest out, drew himself up to his full
height and said 'Do you know who I am???'

I tried that and spent a hour being assessed for dementia.

Tony Blair tried it in an old people's home when talking to an old lady.
"No dear, but you ask Matron - she'll know" the old dear replied.

There's also the version ...

"Do you know who my father is?" ... "No, but your mother might"

[Mike McMillan]

Post by DavidK

Post by BrritSki

Post by john ashby

Post by Vicky

Post by john ashby

Post by nick
That Boris Johnson, instigator of the photo-id to vote laws should forget
to take his photo-id to vote in the local election?
Nick

[Originally e-mailed in error]
No, it's completely in character.
It also makes me feel a bit better about being asked for photo id by my
son-in-law.
john

I think he just stuck his chest out, drew himself up to his full
height and said 'Do you know who I am???'

I tried that and spent a hour being assessed for dementia.

Tony Blair tried it in an old people's home when talking to an old lady.
"No dear, but you ask Matron - she'll know" the old dear replied.

There's also the version ...
"Do you know who my father is?" ... "No, but your mother might"

‘Your father’s not your father but your father don’t know.’

[Sam Plusnet]

Post by Mike McMillan

Post by DavidK

Post by BrritSki

Post by john ashby

Post by Vicky

Post by john ashby

Post by nick
That Boris Johnson, instigator of the photo-id to vote laws should forget
to take his photo-id to vote in the local election?
Nick

[Originally e-mailed in error]
No, it's completely in character.
It also makes me feel a bit better about being asked for photo id by my
son-in-law.
john

I think he just stuck his chest out, drew himself up to his full
height and said 'Do you know who I am???'

I tried that and spent a hour being assessed for dementia.

Tony Blair tried it in an old people's home when talking to an old lady.
"No dear, but you ask Matron - she'll know" the old dear replied.

There's also the version ...
"Do you know who my father is?" ... "No, but your mother might"

‘Your father’s not your father but your father don’t know.’

Shame and scandal in the family.

(I had written "in da family", but changed it.)

[Iain Archer]

Post by Mike McMillan

Post by DavidK

Post by BrritSki

Post by john ashby

On Fri, 3 May 2024 08:06:41 +0100, john ashby

Post by john ashby

Post by nick
That Boris Johnson, instigator of the photo-id to vote laws should
forget to take his photo-id to vote in the local election?
Nick

[Originally e-mailed in error]
No, it's completely in character.
It also makes me feel a bit better about being asked for photo id
by my son-in-law.
john

I think he just stuck his chest out, drew himself up to his full
height and said 'Do you know who I am???'

I tried that and spent a hour being assessed for dementia.

Tony Blair tried it in an old people's home when talking to an old lady.
"No dear, but you ask Matron - she'll know" the old dear replied.

There's also the version ...
"Do you know who my father is?" ... "No, but your mother might"

‘Your father’s not your father but your father don’t know.’

Which brings us nicely round to Buffy Ste Marie's Johny be Fair:

https://lyrics.lyricfind.com/en-GB/lyrics/buffy-sainte-marie-johnny-be-fair

[Serena Blanchflower]

Post by john ashby

Post by nick
That Boris Johnson, instigator of the photo-id to vote laws should forget
to take his photo-id to vote in the local election?
Nick

[Originally e-mailed in error]
No, it's completely in character.

It was definitely entirely in character, regardless of whether he
genuinely forgot or just wanted some attention and knew this was a good
way of getting his photo in all the papers.

Post by john ashby
It also makes me feel a bit better about being asked for photo id by my
son-in-law.

<g>

[J. P. Gilliver]

Post by john ashby

Post by nick
That Boris Johnson, instigator of the photo-id to vote laws should forget
to take his photo-id to vote in the local election?
Nick

[Originally e-mailed in error]
No, it's completely in character.
It also makes me feel a bit better about being asked for photo id by my
son-in-law.
john

Voting (yesterday, for my PCC only, from none of whom I'd received any
communication), I volunteered mine (driving licence) before I was asked,
though I said something like "it doesn't look like me" (which I don't
think it does). I have the feeling it wasn't really glanced at - just
verified that I'd brought it. Which it must be difficult not to get into
the habit of doing.

[Sam Plusnet]

Post by J. P. Gilliver

Post by john ashby

Post by nick
That Boris Johnson, instigator of the photo-id to vote laws should forget
to take his photo-id to vote in the local election?
Nick

[Originally e-mailed in error]
No, it's completely in character.
It also makes me feel a bit better about being asked for photo id by
my son-in-law.
john

Voting (yesterday, for my PCC only, from none of whom I'd received any
communication), I volunteered mine (driving licence) before I was asked,
though I said something like "it doesn't look like me" (which I don't
think it does). I have the feeling it wasn't really glanced at - just
verified that I'd brought it. Which it must be difficult not to get into
the habit of doing.

I don't think it would matter if it looked like Shirley Temple.
I'm pretty sure that wasn't the aim of the exercise.

[J. P. Gilliver]

[]

Post by Sam Plusnet

Post by J. P. Gilliver
Voting (yesterday, for my PCC only, from none of whom I'd received
any communication), I volunteered mine (driving licence) before I was
asked, though I said something like "it doesn't look like me" (which
I don't think it does). I have the feeling it wasn't really glanced
at - just verified that I'd brought it. Which it must be difficult
not to get into the habit of doing.

I don't think it would matter if it looked like Shirley Temple.
I'm pretty sure that wasn't the aim of the exercise.

We'll have to agree to disagree. Strange - I normally think of myself as
the more libertarian - the John Munch character for those that know SVU
- but on this one, I have no objection. (Not that I don't think there
_are_ those who want to use it as the first stage of further control.
But we do seem to have accepted photo driving licences without that
being the start of a police state. [OK, I know there might be the odd
UMRAt still with a paper licence.])

[Joe Kerr]

Post by J. P. Gilliver
We'll have to agree to disagree. Strange - I normally think of myself as
the more libertarian - the John Munch character for those that know SVU
- but on this one, I have no objection. (Not that I don't think there
_are_ those who want to use it as the first stage of further control.
But we do seem to have accepted photo driving licences without that
being the start of a police state. [OK, I know there might be the odd
UMRAt still with a paper licence.])

I am not odd ... just different.

[Sam Plusnet]

Post by J. P. Gilliver
[]

Post by Sam Plusnet

 Voting (yesterday, for my PCC only, from none of whom I'd received
any  communication), I volunteered mine (driving licence) before I
was asked,  though I said something like "it doesn't look like me"
(which I don't  think it does). I have the feeling it wasn't really
glanced at - just  verified that I'd brought it. Which it must be
difficult not to get into  the habit of doing.

I don't think it would matter if it looked like Shirley Temple.
I'm pretty sure that wasn't the aim of the exercise.

We'll have to agree to disagree. Strange - I normally think of myself as
the more libertarian - the John Munch character for those that know SVU
- but on this one, I have no objection. (Not that I don't think there
_are_ those who want to use it as the first stage of further control.
But we do seem to have accepted photo driving licences without that
being the start of a police state. [OK, I know there might be the odd
UMRAt still with a paper licence.])

There aren't any who are over 70[1] - and that covers a significant
percentage of Umrats.

[1] Mine was paper (and bi-lingual - lots of fun if you folded it so
that only the Welsh version was visible) but I 'lost'[2] that when I had
to renew at 70.

[2] Losing your licence implies something quite different.

[Rosie Mitchell]

Post by J. P. Gilliver
[]

Post by Sam Plusnet

Post by J. P. Gilliver
Voting (yesterday, for my PCC only, from none of whom I'd received
any communication), I volunteered mine (driving licence) before I
was asked, though I said something like "it doesn't look like me"
(which I don't think it does). I have the feeling it wasn't really
glanced at - just verified that I'd brought it. Which it must be
difficult not to get into the habit of doing.

I don't think it would matter if it looked like Shirley Temple.
I'm pretty sure that wasn't the aim of the exercise.

We'll have to agree to disagree. Strange - I normally think of myself
as the more libertarian - the John Munch character for those that know
SVU - but on this one, I have no objection. (Not that I don't think
there _are_ those who want to use it as the first stage of further
control. But we do seem to have accepted photo driving licences
without that being the start of a police state. [OK, I know there
might be the odd UMRAt still with a paper licence.])

More importantly, it remains the right of every citizen not to have a
driving licence at all.

Rosie

[Rosie Mitchell]

Post by J. P. Gilliver

Post by john ashby

Post by nick
That Boris Johnson, instigator of the photo-id to vote laws should forget
to take his photo-id to vote in the local election?
Nick

[Originally e-mailed in error]
No, it's completely in character.
It also makes me feel a bit better about being asked for photo id by
my son-in-law.
john

Voting (yesterday, for my PCC only, from none of whom I'd received any
communication), I volunteered mine (driving licence) before I was
asked, though I said something like "it doesn't look like me" (which I
don't think it does). I have the feeling it wasn't really glanced at -
just verified that I'd brought it. Which it must be difficult not to
get into the habit of doing.

I take great pride in having voted in every election for which I have
been qualified. The only one in which I have resorted to deliberately
spoiiing my ballot was when I was called to vote for a PCC for
Cumbria. IMHO it's not just a pointless role and a waste of public
money. It's more sinister than that, it's politicising the police. It's
absolutely right that policing should be held to account by public
bodies including elected community representatives, which they already
were, but absolutely wrong that a politician should direct police
strategy.

Rosie

[Jim Easterbrook]

Post by Rosie Mitchell
I take great pride in having voted in every election for which I have
been qualified. The only one in which I have resorted to deliberately
spoiiing my ballot was when I was called to vote for a PCC for Cumbria.
IMHO it's not just a pointless role and a waste of public money. It's
more sinister than that, it's politicising the police. It's absolutely
right that policing should be held to account by public bodies including
elected community representatives, which they already were, but
absolutely wrong that a politician should direct police strategy.

<LW>

I was one of the 24% in my area who bothered to go and vote for a PCC. I
didn't spoil my paper, but I doubt my vote made much difference.

[Sam Plusnet]

Post by Jim Easterbrook

Post by Rosie Mitchell
I take great pride in having voted in every election for which I have
been qualified. The only one in which I have resorted to deliberately
spoiiing my ballot was when I was called to vote for a PCC for Cumbria.
IMHO it's not just a pointless role and a waste of public money. It's
more sinister than that, it's politicising the police. It's absolutely
right that policing should be held to account by public bodies including
elected community representatives, which they already were, but
absolutely wrong that a politician should direct police strategy.

<LW>
I was one of the 24% in my area who bothered to go and vote for a PCC. I
didn't spoil my paper, but I doubt my vote made much difference.

Does anyrat know quite _why_ PCCs are paid so much?
Our new PCC, the splendidly named Ms Mudd, was the leader of the Newport
City Council - yet moving to her new role involves a stonking great pay
rise.

[J. P. Gilliver]

Post by Jim Easterbrook

Post by Rosie Mitchell
I take great pride in having voted in every election for which I have
been qualified. The only one in which I have resorted to deliberately

I _think_ I have.

Post by Jim Easterbrook

Post by Rosie Mitchell
spoiiing my ballot was when I was called to vote for a PCC for Cumbria.
IMHO it's not just a pointless role and a waste of public money. It's
more sinister than that, it's politicising the police. It's absolutely
right that policing should be held to account by public bodies including
elected community representatives, which they already were, but
absolutely wrong that a politician should direct police strategy.

I mostly agree. The overall idea of a PCC I don't think is all bad
(though since their introduction I haven't been _aware_ of them doing
much - though possibly good ones you _wouldn't_ be aware of), but the
role having been politicised is a definite no-no. (The three I had to
choose between for [I think] Kent were each associated with a party -
Con, Lab, or LD.)

Post by Jim Easterbrook
<LW>
I was one of the 24% in my area who bothered to go and vote for a PCC. I
didn't spoil my paper, but I doubt my vote made much difference.

Ditto. And - considering what I think must have been a very low turnout
(in my area, the PCC was the _only_ election, and I doubt that got many
people turning out) - I'm surprised that, according to
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2024/england/results#pcc-scoreboard,
Kent is _still_ (21:13 on Saturday) "Awaiting result".

[Nick Odell]

On 4 May 2024 13:06:19 GMT, Jim Easterbrook

Post by Jim Easterbrook

Post by Rosie Mitchell
I take great pride in having voted in every election for which I have
been qualified. The only one in which I have resorted to deliberately
spoiiing my ballot was when I was called to vote for a PCC for Cumbria.
IMHO it's not just a pointless role and a waste of public money. It's
more sinister than that, it's politicising the police. It's absolutely
right that policing should be held to account by public bodies including
elected community representatives, which they already were, but
absolutely wrong that a politician should direct police strategy.

<LW>
I was one of the 24% in my area who bothered to go and vote for a PCC. I
didn't spoil my paper, but I doubt my vote made much difference.

<LW>+<LW>

On the first PCC ballot I smuggled a sharpie into the booth and wrote
"This is a complete and total ******* waste of time and money" on my
paper. Then I spent the next few days worrying that there might have
been so few people voting that they might consider that an abuse of
electoral staff and try to track me down.

This is the first election of any sort where I can recollect not
voting (I can't recall if there was voting in Spring 2020 during Covid
but if so I missed that too due to lockdown in Buenos Aires) although
I always vote, in some circumstances I have spoiled my paper. In this
instance, I hadn't time to arrange a proxy vote before I left.

Nick

[Kosmo]

Post by Rosie Mitchell
It's more sinister than that, it's politicising the police. It's
absolutely right that policing should be held to account by public
bodies including elected community representatives, which they already
were, but absolutely wrong that a politician should direct police
strategy.

LW. And even more wasted are all these mayors foisted on us over the
last few years.

[J. P. Gilliver]

In message <v15glg$18g18$***@dont-email.me> at Sat, 4 May 2024 15:28:01,
Kosmo <***@whitnet.uk> writes
[]

Post by Kosmo
LW. And even more wasted are all these mayors foisted on us over the
last few years.

Except, according to most news reporting, they're female horses, not
mayors.

[Rosie Mitchell]

Post by J. P. Gilliver
[]

Post by Kosmo
LW. And even more wasted are all these mayors foisted on us over
the last few years.

Except, according to most news reporting, they're female horses, not
mayors.

Which is the old standard pronunciation. 'Mayor' as a disyllable is a
fairly recent development.

Rosie

[J. P. Gilliver]

Post by Rosie Mitchell

Post by J. P. Gilliver
[]

Post by Kosmo
LW. And even more wasted are all these mayors foisted on us over
the last few years.

Except, according to most news reporting, they're female horses, not
mayors.

Which is the old standard pronunciation. 'Mayor' as a disyllable is a
fairly recent development.
Rosie

Sorry, I don't care.

And another word - whether it's spelt to mean ground grain, or a bloom -
I also insist on being disyllabic.

[Vicky]

Post by Kosmo
LW. And even more wasted are all these mayors foisted on us over the
last few years.

It all makes work for the working man to do.

[J. P. Gilliver]

Post by Vicky

Post by Kosmo
LW. And even more wasted are all these mayors foisted on us over the
last few years.

It all makes work for the working man to do.

That'll be in my head for ages now!

[Joe Kerr]

LW.  And even more wasted are all these mayors foisted on us over the
last few years.

That sounds a little unfair. I'm sure that some of them must be sober at
least part of the time.

[Nick Odell]

Post by Kosmo

Post by Rosie Mitchell
It's more sinister than that, it's politicising the police. It's
absolutely right that policing should be held to account by public
bodies including elected community representatives, which they already
were, but absolutely wrong that a politician should direct police
strategy.

LW. And even more wasted are all these mayors foisted on us over the
last few years.

I'm not sure I agree with you about that. Our (re-elected yesterday)
Wet Yorkshire mayor, Tracy Brabin, who only went into politics because
she had been a friend of Jo Cox, has already influenced Westminster
policy by introducing a flat £2 fare on the buses throughout the
region. Westminster then felt obliged to take that scheme national.
She's also at the front of a scheme which will come in shortly, to run
public transport in the county on a franchise system like London and
Manchester which I think is A Good Thing

Nick

[J. P. Gilliver]

In message <***@4ax.com> at Sun, 5 May
2024 15:31:19, Nick Odell <***@yahoo.ca> writes
[]

Post by Nick Odell
I'm not sure I agree with you about that. Our (re-elected yesterday)
Wet Yorkshire mayor, Tracy Brabin, who only went into politics because
she had been a friend of Jo Cox, has already influenced Westminster
policy by introducing a flat £2 fare on the buses throughout the
region. Westminster then felt obliged to take that scheme national.

That doesn't sound wet at all!

Post by Nick Odell
She's also at the front of a scheme which will come in shortly, to run
public transport in the county on a franchise system like London and
Manchester which I think is A Good Thing
Nick

On verra.

[Kosmo]

Post by Nick Odell

Post by Kosmo

Post by Rosie Mitchell
It's more sinister than that, it's politicising the police. It's
absolutely right that policing should be held to account by public
bodies including elected community representatives, which they already
were, but absolutely wrong that a politician should direct police
strategy.

LW. And even more wasted are all these mayors foisted on us over the
last few years.

I'm not sure I agree with you about that. Our (re-elected yesterday)
Wet Yorkshire mayor, Tracy Brabin, who only went into politics because
she had been a friend of Jo Cox, has already influenced Westminster
policy by introducing a flat £2 fare on the buses throughout the
region. Westminster then felt obliged to take that scheme national.
She's also at the front of a scheme which will come in shortly, to run
public transport in the county on a franchise system like London and
Manchester which I think is A Good Thing
Nick

Sadly I cannot agree. As an example in London Khan is allegedly getting
only half (£250m) of the capital investment he needs, so is unhappy.
Simultaneously he has not increased fares and indeed stupidly reduced
them on Fridays - income which would have generated £250m.

Far too often the mayors worry about only services within their area -
so the rail line to Whitby is losing services because Houchem will only
fund to the boundary and insists the trains go no further.

Khan wanted to take over bits of SouthEastern so he could run a more
frequent metro service on suburban lines requiring withdrawal of long
distance services because they did not matter.

And I am sure there are other examples.

[Sam Plusnet]

Post by Rosie Mitchell
It's more sinister than that, it's politicising the police. It's
absolutely right that policing should be held to account by public
bodies including elected community representatives, which they already
were, but absolutely wrong that a politician should direct police
strategy.

LW.  And even more wasted are all these mayors foisted on us over the
last few years.

Quite.
I once lived in Derbyshire, so I was slightly intrigued when I heard
there was to be a "Mayor of the East Midlands".

Put aside the strange idea that a vaguely defined region should have a
Mayor, rather than it be a role within a town or city.

I looked further and came across:

https://www.eastmidlandsdevolution.co.uk/themayor/

Which repeatedly said the Mayor was to cover:

"Derbyshire, Nottinghamshire, Derby and Nottingham"

When I lived there Derby was certainly _in_ Derbyshire, and Nottingham
was _in_ Nottinghamshire.

Why the strange tautology? Does anyone know?

[Jenny M Benson]

Post by Sam Plusnet
https://www.eastmidlandsdevolution.co.uk/themayor/
"Derbyshire, Nottinghamshire, Derby and Nottingham"
When I lived there Derby was certainly _in_ Derbyshire, and Nottingham
was _in_ Nottinghamshire.
Why the strange tautology?  Does anyone know?

I don't KNOW, but I'm guessing there are 2 County Councils and 2 City
Councils involved.

[Chris J Dixon]

Post by Jenny M Benson

Post by Sam Plusnet
https://www.eastmidlandsdevolution.co.uk/themayor/
"Derbyshire, Nottinghamshire, Derby and Nottingham"
When I lived there Derby was certainly _in_ Derbyshire, and Nottingham
was _in_ Nottinghamshire.
Why the strange tautology?  Does anyone know?

I don't KNOW, but I'm guessing there are 2 County Councils and 2 City
Councils involved.

Quite so. AIUI, because Leicester city did not want to play, then
Leicestershire CC could not join in.

Chris

[Joe Kerr]

Post by Sam Plusnet

LW.  And even more wasted are all these mayors foisted on us over the
last few years.

Quite.
I once lived in Derbyshire, so I was slightly intrigued when I heard
there was to be a "Mayor of the East Midlands".
Put aside the strange idea that a vaguely defined region should have a
Mayor, rather than it be a role within a town or city.
https://www.eastmidlandsdevolution.co.uk/themayor/
"Derbyshire, Nottinghamshire, Derby and Nottingham"
When I lived there Derby was certainly _in_ Derbyshire, and Nottingham
was _in_ Nottinghamshire.
Why the strange tautology?  Does anyone know?

I would take a guess that they are not talking geographically but in
terms of city and county councils. A Google maps search on the counties
excludes the cities.

[J. P. Gilliver]

In message <FiQZN.8035$***@fx12.ams1> at Sun, 5 May 2024 19:34:13,
Sam Plusnet <***@home.com> writes
[]

Post by Sam Plusnet
"Derbyshire, Nottinghamshire, Derby and Nottingham"
When I lived there Derby was certainly _in_ Derbyshire, and Nottingham
was _in_ Nottinghamshire.
Why the strange tautology? Does anyone know?

When I was little and one of my Grandmas lived in Nottingham, I remember
being told (this would have been I think 1960s) that Nottingham was
_not_ in Nottinghamshire - at least for some purpose, I think it was
addressing envelopes. I think it's one of those quirks, like Westminster
is not in London (or something like that) for administrative purposes.

[Kate B]

Post by J. P. Gilliver
[]

Post by Sam Plusnet
"Derbyshire, Nottinghamshire, Derby and Nottingham"
When I lived there Derby was certainly _in_ Derbyshire, and Nottingham
was _in_ Nottinghamshire.
Why the strange tautology?  Does anyone know?

When I was little and one of my Grandmas lived in Nottingham, I remember
being told (this would have been I think 1960s) that Nottingham was
_not_ in Nottinghamshire - at least for some purpose, I think it was
addressing envelopes. I think it's one of those quirks, like Westminster
is not in London (or something like that) for administrative purposes.

Though to be pedantic again, Westminster and the City of London have
been separate entities since Anglo-Saxon times.

[Rosie Mitchell]

Post by J. P. Gilliver
[]

Post by Sam Plusnet
"Derbyshire, Nottinghamshire, Derby and Nottingham"
When I lived there Derby was certainly _in_ Derbyshire, and
Nottingham was _in_ Nottinghamshire.
Why the strange tautology? Does anyone know?

When I was little and one of my Grandmas lived in Nottingham, I
remember being told (this would have been I think 1960s) that
Nottingham was _not_ in Nottinghamshire - at least for some purpose, I
think it was addressing envelopes. I think it's one of those quirks,
like Westminster is not in London (or something like that) for
administrative purposes.

Like many large towns Nottingham was a county borough from 1888 to 1974
with all the administrative powers of a county council, so it was not in
Nottinghamshire for government purposes, although it was for lieutenancy
purposes.

But the issue is murkier than that. Like many towns that were already
large in the late medieval period (like Hull, Bristol and Coventry but not like
Leeds, Birmingham and Manchester), Nottingham was a County Corporate not only with
the full powers of a county but with its own lieutenant, not to mention
a sheriff. To make things awkward, as the Victorians were wont to do
sometimes although they were generally pragmatic people, Counties
Corporate were abolished in 1882, so for six years Nottingham not only
lost its lieutenancy, for what it was worth, but was administered as
just another part of Nottinghamshire.

Rosie

[Kosmo]

Post by Sam Plusnet

Post by Rosie Mitchell
It's more sinister than that, it's politicising the police. It's
absolutely right that policing should be held to account by public
bodies including elected community representatives, which they already
were, but absolutely wrong that a politician should direct police
strategy.

LW.  And even more wasted are all these mayors foisted on us over the
last few years.

Quite.
I once lived in Derbyshire, so I was slightly intrigued when I heard
there was to be a "Mayor of the East Midlands".
Put aside the strange idea that a vaguely defined region should have a
Mayor, rather than it be a role within a town or city.
https://www.eastmidlandsdevolution.co.uk/themayor/
"Derbyshire, Nottinghamshire, Derby and Nottingham"
When I lived there Derby was certainly _in_ Derbyshire, and Nottingham
was _in_ Nottinghamshire.
Why the strange tautology?  Does anyone know?

I believe that Derby and Nottingham are unitary authorities - so can do
anything whilst the County Councils have councils beneath them.

Why add a higher level of local authority - all cost and no benefit.

[john ashby]

Post by Rosie Mitchell

Post by J. P. Gilliver

Post by john ashby

Post by nick
That Boris Johnson, instigator of the photo-id to vote laws should forget
to take his photo-id to vote in the local election?
Nick

[Originally e-mailed in error]
No, it's completely in character.
It also makes me feel a bit better about being asked for photo id by
my son-in-law.
john

Voting (yesterday, for my PCC only, from none of whom I'd received any
communication), I volunteered mine (driving licence) before I was
asked, though I said something like "it doesn't look like me" (which I
don't think it does). I have the feeling it wasn't really glanced at -
just verified that I'd brought it. Which it must be difficult not to
get into the habit of doing.

I take great pride in having voted in every election for which I have
been qualified. The only one in which I have resorted to deliberately
spoiiing my ballot was when I was called to vote for a PCC for
Cumbria. IMHO it's not just a pointless role and a waste of public
money. It's more sinister than that, it's politicising the police. It's
absolutely right that policing should be held to account by public
bodies including elected community representatives, which they already
were, but absolutely wrong that a politician should direct police
strategy.
Rosie

YANAOU

john

[Chris]

Post by john ashby

Post by nick
That Boris Johnson, instigator of the photo-id to vote laws should forget
to take his photo-id to vote in the local election?
Nick

[Originally e-mailed in error]
No, it's completely in character.
It also makes me feel a bit better about being asked for photo id by my
son-in-law.
john

Chuckle. Someone I know slightly told me yesterday that as she has nothing
else with a photo, she proffered her bus pass: bus passes never have their
photo ID updated and the lady had definitely aged as it was a Seniors bus
pass of probably 15 years or more. The chap scrutinised so carefully, she
thought she might be refused. His expression didn’t help she said. She’s
feisty though so he may have have his ears gently bashed

Mrs McT

[Nick Odell]

On Sat, 4 May 2024 13:14:16 -0000 (UTC), Chris

Post by Chris

Post by john ashby

Post by nick
That Boris Johnson, instigator of the photo-id to vote laws should forget
to take his photo-id to vote in the local election?
Nick

[Originally e-mailed in error]
No, it's completely in character.
It also makes me feel a bit better about being asked for photo id by my
son-in-law.
john

Chuckle. Someone I know slightly told me yesterday that as she has nothing
else with a photo, she proffered her bus pass: bus passes never have their
photo ID updated and the lady had definitely aged as it was a Seniors bus
pass of probably 15 years or more. The chap scrutinised so carefully, she
thought she might be refused. His expression didn’t help she said. She’s
feisty though so he may have have his ears gently bashed

My twirly bus pass has my name spelled incorrectly. It has never
bothered me enough to have it changed and it might be amusing to see
if it is still accepted for voting.

Nick

[Kosmo]

Post by nick
That Boris Johnson, instigator of the photo-id to vote laws should forget
to take his photo-id to vote in the local election?
Nick

Surely he would have said "Do you know who I am?"

This is one law which should be repealed without any further
consideration. We were long promised there was no need for identity
cards and there is no significant evidence of voter fraud, apart
possibly (and unproven) by postal voters where it is alleged a single
person completes the votes for the entire family.

[Mike McMillan]

Post by Kosmo

Post by nick
That Boris Johnson, instigator of the photo-id to vote laws should forget
to take his photo-id to vote in the local election?
Nick

Surely he would have said "Do you know who I am?"
This is one law which should be repealed without any further
consideration. We were long promised there was no need for identity
cards and there is no significant evidence of voter fraud, apart
possibly (and unproven) by postal voters where it is alleged a single
person completes the votes for the entire family.

Oi! Security… over here please, I have a person who doesn’t know who they
are…

[J. P. Gilliver]

Post by Kosmo

Post by nick
That Boris Johnson, instigator of the photo-id to vote laws should forget
to take his photo-id to vote in the local election?
Nick

Surely he would have said "Do you know who I am?"
This is one law which should be repealed without any further
consideration. We were long promised there was no need for identity
cards and there is no significant evidence of voter fraud, apart
possibly (and unproven) by postal voters where it is alleged a single
person completes the votes for the entire family.

I must admit I was actually rather pleased when I heard they were
bringing it in, as it seemed a loophole to me. I do accept that there
was/is very little evidence of voter fraud (and it wouldn't, I think,
solve postal voter fraud anyway), and I'm against having to carry an
identity card, but where one's identity _is_ required for a specific
purpose (rather than just a spot check in the street), I can't see any
_objection_ to requiring it. (I'm not sure about it having to be a
_photo_ ID; there are plenty of other situations where proof of identity
is required, and I think most of them accept non-photo ones. Usually
things like utility/council-tax bills [I know utility ones are often
online these days], for example.)

I've recently seen a few clips on YouTube about members of the Amish
community and their encounters with civilisation (well, YKWIM);
apparently they don't agree with photographs - they consider them vanity
- and the authorities there allow a special form of ID for them that
doesn't have a photo on it. (The fact that one's driving-licence - or
similar - photo is often the furthest thing possible from vanity, has
been pointed out in many of the comments!)

Do we have Amish - or a group with a similar attitude to photographs -
in Britain in significant numbers? If we do, do we make a similar
concession re photo-IDs?

[Nick Odell]

Post by J. P. Gilliver

Post by Kosmo

Post by nick
That Boris Johnson, instigator of the photo-id to vote laws should forget
to take his photo-id to vote in the local election?
Nick

Surely he would have said "Do you know who I am?"
This is one law which should be repealed without any further
consideration. We were long promised there was no need for identity
cards and there is no significant evidence of voter fraud, apart
possibly (and unproven) by postal voters where it is alleged a single
person completes the votes for the entire family.

I must admit I was actually rather pleased when I heard they were
bringing it in, as it seemed a loophole to me. I do accept that there
was/is very little evidence of voter fraud (and it wouldn't, I think,
solve postal voter fraud anyway), and I'm against having to carry an
identity card, but where one's identity _is_ required for a specific
purpose (rather than just a spot check in the street), I can't see any
_objection_ to requiring it. (I'm not sure about it having to be a
_photo_ ID; there are plenty of other situations where proof of identity
is required, and I think most of them accept non-photo ones. Usually
things like utility/council-tax bills [I know utility ones are often
online these days], for example.)
I've recently seen a few clips on YouTube about members of the Amish
community and their encounters with civilisation (well, YKWIM);
apparently they don't agree with photographs - they consider them vanity
- and the authorities there allow a special form of ID for them that
doesn't have a photo on it. (The fact that one's driving-licence - or
similar - photo is often the furthest thing possible from vanity, has
been pointed out in many of the comments!)
Do we have Amish - or a group with a similar attitude to photographs -
in Britain in significant numbers? If we do, do we make a similar
concession re photo-IDs?

I don't know about the Amish but I believe that the last Mennonite
Chapel in the UK closed in, I think, 2008. Mennonites and Amish are, I
both, I believe, anabaptists and both hold similar philosophies.
DAMHIKT

Nick

[john ashby]

Post by Nick Odell

Post by J. P. Gilliver

Post by Kosmo

Post by nick
That Boris Johnson, instigator of the photo-id to vote laws should forget
to take his photo-id to vote in the local election?
Nick

Surely he would have said "Do you know who I am?"
This is one law which should be repealed without any further
consideration. We were long promised there was no need for identity
cards and there is no significant evidence of voter fraud, apart
possibly (and unproven) by postal voters where it is alleged a single
person completes the votes for the entire family.

I must admit I was actually rather pleased when I heard they were
bringing it in, as it seemed a loophole to me. I do accept that there
was/is very little evidence of voter fraud (and it wouldn't, I think,
solve postal voter fraud anyway), and I'm against having to carry an
identity card, but where one's identity _is_ required for a specific
purpose (rather than just a spot check in the street), I can't see any
_objection_ to requiring it. (I'm not sure about it having to be a
_photo_ ID; there are plenty of other situations where proof of identity
is required, and I think most of them accept non-photo ones. Usually
things like utility/council-tax bills [I know utility ones are often
online these days], for example.)
I've recently seen a few clips on YouTube about members of the Amish
community and their encounters with civilisation (well, YKWIM);
apparently they don't agree with photographs - they consider them vanity
- and the authorities there allow a special form of ID for them that
doesn't have a photo on it. (The fact that one's driving-licence - or
similar - photo is often the furthest thing possible from vanity, has
been pointed out in many of the comments!)
Do we have Amish - or a group with a similar attitude to photographs -
in Britain in significant numbers? If we do, do we make a similar
concession re photo-IDs?

I don't know about the Amish but I believe that the last Mennonite
Chapel in the UK closed in, I think, 2008. Mennonites and Amish are, I
both, I believe, anabaptists and both hold similar philosophies.
DAMHIKT
Nick

EMNTK

john

[Sam Plusnet]

Post by Nick Odell

Post by J. P. Gilliver

Post by Kosmo

Post by nick
That Boris Johnson, instigator of the photo-id to vote laws should forget
to take his photo-id to vote in the local election?
Nick

Surely he would have said "Do you know who I am?"
This is one law which should be repealed without any further
consideration.  We were long promised there was no need for identity
cards and there is no significant evidence of voter fraud, apart
possibly (and unproven) by postal voters where it is alleged a single
person completes the votes for the entire family.

I must admit I was actually rather pleased when I heard they were
bringing it in, as it seemed a loophole to me. I do accept that there
was/is very little evidence of voter fraud (and it wouldn't, I think,
solve postal voter fraud anyway), and I'm against having to carry an
identity card, but where one's identity _is_ required for a specific
purpose (rather than just a spot check in the street), I can't see any
_objection_ to requiring it. (I'm not sure about it having to be a
_photo_ ID; there are plenty of other situations where proof of identity
is required, and I think most of them accept non-photo ones. Usually
things like utility/council-tax bills [I know utility ones are often
online these days], for example.)
I've recently seen a few clips on YouTube about members of the Amish
community and their encounters with civilisation (well, YKWIM);
apparently they don't agree with photographs - they consider them vanity
- and the authorities there allow a special form of ID for them that
doesn't have a photo on it. (The fact that one's driving-licence - or
similar - photo is often the furthest thing possible from vanity, has
been pointed out in many of the comments!)
Do we have Amish - or a group with a similar attitude to photographs -
in Britain in significant numbers? If we do, do we make a similar
concession re photo-IDs?

I don't know about the Amish but I believe that the last Mennonite
Chapel in the UK closed in, I think, 2008. Mennonites and Amish are, I
both, I believe, anabaptists and both hold similar philosophies.
DAMHIKT
Nick

EMNTK

GIYF

"Mennonites and Amish"

[Nick Odell]

Post by Nick Odell

Post by J. P. Gilliver

Post by Kosmo

Post by nick
That Boris Johnson, instigator of the photo-id to vote laws should forget
to take his photo-id to vote in the local election?
Nick

Surely he would have said "Do you know who I am?"
This is one law which should be repealed without any further
consideration. We were long promised there was no need for identity
cards and there is no significant evidence of voter fraud, apart
possibly (and unproven) by postal voters where it is alleged a single
person completes the votes for the entire family.

I must admit I was actually rather pleased when I heard they were
bringing it in, as it seemed a loophole to me. I do accept that there
was/is very little evidence of voter fraud (and it wouldn't, I think,
solve postal voter fraud anyway), and I'm against having to carry an
identity card, but where one's identity _is_ required for a specific
purpose (rather than just a spot check in the street), I can't see any
_objection_ to requiring it. (I'm not sure about it having to be a
_photo_ ID; there are plenty of other situations where proof of identity
is required, and I think most of them accept non-photo ones. Usually
things like utility/council-tax bills [I know utility ones are often
online these days], for example.)
I've recently seen a few clips on YouTube about members of the Amish
community and their encounters with civilisation (well, YKWIM);
apparently they don't agree with photographs - they consider them vanity
- and the authorities there allow a special form of ID for them that
doesn't have a photo on it. (The fact that one's driving-licence - or
similar - photo is often the furthest thing possible from vanity, has
been pointed out in many of the comments!)
Do we have Amish - or a group with a similar attitude to photographs -
in Britain in significant numbers? If we do, do we make a similar
concession re photo-IDs?

I don't know about the Amish but I believe that the last Mennonite
Chapel in the UK closed in, I think, 2008. Mennonites and Amish are, I
both, I believe, anabaptists and both hold similar philosophies.
DAMHIKT
Nick

EMNTK

I accept that everybody may have a different opinion about this but
for me, barring illness or accident, the second-worst way I could
imagine ending my days would be propped up in an armchair in a nursing
home. The worst way would be propped up in an armchair in a nursing
home in front of a big television set which is pumping rubbish out all
day long. So when I read a newspaper article about the closure of the
last Mennonite Chapel in London I thought, aha! This is my get-out
clause. If anyone tries to do that to me and since there's no longer
any real way of checking, I shall claim that I'm a Mennonite,
television is against my deeply-held beliefs and making me watch it is
religious persecution.

Nick

[john ashby]

Post by Nick Odell

Post by Nick Odell

Post by J. P. Gilliver

Post by Kosmo

Post by nick
That Boris Johnson, instigator of the photo-id to vote laws should forget
to take his photo-id to vote in the local election?
Nick

Surely he would have said "Do you know who I am?"
This is one law which should be repealed without any further
consideration. We were long promised there was no need for identity
cards and there is no significant evidence of voter fraud, apart
possibly (and unproven) by postal voters where it is alleged a single
person completes the votes for the entire family.

I must admit I was actually rather pleased when I heard they were
bringing it in, as it seemed a loophole to me. I do accept that there
was/is very little evidence of voter fraud (and it wouldn't, I think,
solve postal voter fraud anyway), and I'm against having to carry an
identity card, but where one's identity _is_ required for a specific
purpose (rather than just a spot check in the street), I can't see any
_objection_ to requiring it. (I'm not sure about it having to be a
_photo_ ID; there are plenty of other situations where proof of identity
is required, and I think most of them accept non-photo ones. Usually
things like utility/council-tax bills [I know utility ones are often
online these days], for example.)
I've recently seen a few clips on YouTube about members of the Amish
community and their encounters with civilisation (well, YKWIM);
apparently they don't agree with photographs - they consider them vanity
- and the authorities there allow a special form of ID for them that
doesn't have a photo on it. (The fact that one's driving-licence - or
similar - photo is often the furthest thing possible from vanity, has
been pointed out in many of the comments!)
Do we have Amish - or a group with a similar attitude to photographs -
in Britain in significant numbers? If we do, do we make a similar
concession re photo-IDs?

I don't know about the Amish but I believe that the last Mennonite
Chapel in the UK closed in, I think, 2008. Mennonites and Amish are, I
both, I believe, anabaptists and both hold similar philosophies.
DAMHIKT
Nick

EMNTK

I accept that everybody may have a different opinion about this but
for me, barring illness or accident, the second-worst way I could
imagine ending my days would be propped up in an armchair in a nursing
home. The worst way would be propped up in an armchair in a nursing
home in front of a big television set which is pumping rubbish out all
day long. So when I read a newspaper article about the closure of the
last Mennonite Chapel in London I thought, aha! This is my get-out
clause. If anyone tries to do that to me and since there's no longer
any real way of checking, I shall claim that I'm a Mennonite,
television is against my deeply-held beliefs and making me watch it is
religious persecution.
Nick

Can I be an atheist Mennonite?

john

[Jim Easterbrook]

Post by john ashby
Can I be an atheist Mennonite?

Would that be an amennonite?

[john ashby]

Post by Jim Easterbrook

Post by john ashby
Can I be an atheist Mennonite?

Would that be an amennonite?

Who are you calling an old fossil?

john

[Mike McMillan]

Post by john ashby

Post by Jim Easterbrook

Post by john ashby
Can I be an atheist Mennonite?

Would that be an amennonite?

Who are you calling an old fossil?
john

Stoney silence.

[Nick Odell]

On 5 May 2024 08:35:17 GMT, Jim Easterbrook

Post by Jim Easterbrook

Post by john ashby
Can I be an atheist Mennonite?

Would that be an amennonite?

Crossword clue: So be it, endless day?

Nick

[Chris]

Post by Nick Odell

Post by Nick Odell

Post by J. P. Gilliver

Post by Kosmo

Post by nick
That Boris Johnson, instigator of the photo-id to vote laws should forget
to take his photo-id to vote in the local election?
Nick

Surely he would have said "Do you know who I am?"
This is one law which should be repealed without any further
consideration. We were long promised there was no need for identity
cards and there is no significant evidence of voter fraud, apart
possibly (and unproven) by postal voters where it is alleged a single
person completes the votes for the entire family.

I must admit I was actually rather pleased when I heard they were
bringing it in, as it seemed a loophole to me. I do accept that there
was/is very little evidence of voter fraud (and it wouldn't, I think,
solve postal voter fraud anyway), and I'm against having to carry an
identity card, but where one's identity _is_ required for a specific
purpose (rather than just a spot check in the street), I can't see any
_objection_ to requiring it. (I'm not sure about it having to be a
_photo_ ID; there are plenty of other situations where proof of identity
is required, and I think most of them accept non-photo ones. Usually
things like utility/council-tax bills [I know utility ones are often
online these days], for example.)
I've recently seen a few clips on YouTube about members of the Amish
community and their encounters with civilisation (well, YKWIM);
apparently they don't agree with photographs - they consider them vanity
- and the authorities there allow a special form of ID for them that
doesn't have a photo on it. (The fact that one's driving-licence - or
similar - photo is often the furthest thing possible from vanity, has
been pointed out in many of the comments!)
Do we have Amish - or a group with a similar attitude to photographs -
in Britain in significant numbers? If we do, do we make a similar
concession re photo-IDs?

I don't know about the Amish but I believe that the last Mennonite
Chapel in the UK closed in, I think, 2008. Mennonites and Amish are, I
both, I believe, anabaptists and both hold similar philosophies.
DAMHIKT
Nick

EMNTK

I accept that everybody may have a different opinion about this but
for me, barring illness or accident, the second-worst way I could
imagine ending my days would be propped up in an armchair in a nursing
home. The worst way would be propped up in an armchair in a nursing
home in front of a big television set which is pumping rubbish out all
day long. So when I read a newspaper article about the closure of the
last Mennonite Chapel in London I thought, aha! This is my get-out
clause. If anyone tries to do that to me and since there's no longer
any real way of checking, I shall claim that I'm a Mennonite,
television is against my deeply-held beliefs and making me watch it is
religious persecution.
Nick

Care homes also have a quiet room with no tv. And every room has its tv as
well.

Mrs McT

[Mike McMillan]

Post by Chris

Post by Nick Odell

Post by Nick Odell

Post by J. P. Gilliver

Post by Kosmo

Post by nick
That Boris Johnson, instigator of the photo-id to vote laws should forget
to take his photo-id to vote in the local election?
Nick

Surely he would have said "Do you know who I am?"
This is one law which should be repealed without any further
consideration. We were long promised there was no need for identity
cards and there is no significant evidence of voter fraud, apart
possibly (and unproven) by postal voters where it is alleged a single
person completes the votes for the entire family.

I must admit I was actually rather pleased when I heard they were
bringing it in, as it seemed a loophole to me. I do accept that there
was/is very little evidence of voter fraud (and it wouldn't, I think,
solve postal voter fraud anyway), and I'm against having to carry an
identity card, but where one's identity _is_ required for a specific
purpose (rather than just a spot check in the street), I can't see any
_objection_ to requiring it. (I'm not sure about it having to be a
_photo_ ID; there are plenty of other situations where proof of identity
is required, and I think most of them accept non-photo ones. Usually
things like utility/council-tax bills [I know utility ones are often
online these days], for example.)
I've recently seen a few clips on YouTube about members of the Amish
community and their encounters with civilisation (well, YKWIM);
apparently they don't agree with photographs - they consider them vanity
- and the authorities there allow a special form of ID for them that
doesn't have a photo on it. (The fact that one's driving-licence - or
similar - photo is often the furthest thing possible from vanity, has
been pointed out in many of the comments!)
Do we have Amish - or a group with a similar attitude to photographs -
in Britain in significant numbers? If we do, do we make a similar
concession re photo-IDs?

I don't know about the Amish but I believe that the last Mennonite
Chapel in the UK closed in, I think, 2008. Mennonites and Amish are, I
both, I believe, anabaptists and both hold similar philosophies.
DAMHIKT
Nick

EMNTK

I accept that everybody may have a different opinion about this but
for me, barring illness or accident, the second-worst way I could
imagine ending my days would be propped up in an armchair in a nursing
home. The worst way would be propped up in an armchair in a nursing
home in front of a big television set which is pumping rubbish out all
day long. So when I read a newspaper article about the closure of the
last Mennonite Chapel in London I thought, aha! This is my get-out
clause. If anyone tries to do that to me and since there's no longer
any real way of checking, I shall claim that I'm a Mennonite,
television is against my deeply-held beliefs and making me watch it is
religious persecution.
Nick

Care homes also have a quiet room with no tv. And every room has its tv as
well.
Mrs McT

I suspect that a TV is the cheapest form of ‘staff’ to amuse and pacify
inmates, one TV probably equals at least three underpaid care workers.😳

[Vicky]

On Sun, 5 May 2024 17:46:09 -0000 (UTC), Mike McMillan

Post by Chris

Post by Nick Odell

EMNTK

I accept that everybody may have a different opinion about this but
for me, barring illness or accident, the second-worst way I could
imagine ending my days would be propped up in an armchair in a nursing
home. The worst way would be propped up in an armchair in a nursing
home in front of a big television set which is pumping rubbish out all
day long. So when I read a newspaper article about the closure of the
last Mennonite Chapel in London I thought, aha! This is my get-out
clause. If anyone tries to do that to me and since there's no longer
any real way of checking, I shall claim that I'm a Mennonite,
television is against my deeply-held beliefs and making me watch it is
religious persecution.
Nick

Care homes also have a quiet room with no tv. And every room has its tv as
well.
Mrs McT

I suspect that a TV is the cheapest form of ‘staff’ to amuse and pacify
inmates, one TV probably equals at least three underpaid care workers.?

I think it will partly depend on how far gone the residents are. With
my mother in the last home (some will only take residents up to a
certain ability) they wouldn't have been able to appreciate much other
entertainment.; Or might they....in earlier ones there were activities
to occupy residents and stimulate them. Music, chair-based exercise
etc.Outings.

[Chris]

Post by Vicky
On Sun, 5 May 2024 17:46:09 -0000 (UTC), Mike McMillan

Post by Chris

Post by Nick Odell

EMNTK

I accept that everybody may have a different opinion about this but
for me, barring illness or accident, the second-worst way I could
imagine ending my days would be propped up in an armchair in a nursing
home. The worst way would be propped up in an armchair in a nursing
home in front of a big television set which is pumping rubbish out all
day long. So when I read a newspaper article about the closure of the
last Mennonite Chapel in London I thought, aha! This is my get-out
clause. If anyone tries to do that to me and since there's no longer
any real way of checking, I shall claim that I'm a Mennonite,
television is against my deeply-held beliefs and making me watch it is
religious persecution.
Nick

Care homes also have a quiet room with no tv. And every room has its tv as
well.
Mrs McT

I suspect that a TV is the cheapest form of ‘staff’ to amuse and pacify
inmates, one TV probably equals at least three underpaid care workers.?

I think it will partly depend on how far gone the residents are. With
my mother in the last home (some will only take residents up to a
certain ability) they wouldn't have been able to appreciate much other
entertainment.; Or might they....in earlier ones there were activities
to occupy residents and stimulate them. Music, chair-based exercise
etc.Outings.

A huge effort is made these days even when people are bedbound. One local
home, probably the top of the area, has visits from donkeys etc. Another
has links with nursery age children just like as seen on tv. Our 94 yr old
who is almost totally blind and deaf since her 60s says the children’s
visits are her highlight as she rarely sees her own great grandchildren as
they live not round here. I’ll admit Jean is more like a 70 yr old in her
mind, her body however has decided to behave otherwise.

Mrs McT

[Joe Kerr]

Post by Mike McMillan

Post by Chris

Post by Nick Odell
I accept that everybody may have a different opinion about this but
for me, barring illness or accident, the second-worst way I could
imagine ending my days would be propped up in an armchair in a nursing
home. The worst way would be propped up in an armchair in a nursing
home in front of a big television set which is pumping rubbish out all
day long. So when I read a newspaper article about the closure of the
last Mennonite Chapel in London I thought, aha! This is my get-out
clause. If anyone tries to do that to me and since there's no longer
any real way of checking, I shall claim that I'm a Mennonite,
television is against my deeply-held beliefs and making me watch it is
religious persecution.
Nick

Care homes also have a quiet room with no tv. And every room has its tv as
well.
Mrs McT

I suspect that a TV is the cheapest form of ‘staff’ to amuse and pacify
inmates, one TV probably equals at least three underpaid care workers.😳

I'd like to point out that inmates are typically living somewhere
against their will, such as a prison or secure hospital. People living
in a care home are normally known as residents. A big difference in
perception.

Genealogists will know that this has not always been the case.

[john ashby]

Post by Mike McMillan

Post by Chris

Post by Nick Odell

Post by Nick Odell

Post by J. P. Gilliver

Post by Kosmo

Post by nick
That Boris Johnson, instigator of the photo-id to vote laws should forget
to take his photo-id to vote in the local election?
Nick

Surely he would have said "Do you know who I am?"
This is one law which should be repealed without any further
consideration. We were long promised there was no need for identity
cards and there is no significant evidence of voter fraud, apart
possibly (and unproven) by postal voters where it is alleged a single
person completes the votes for the entire family.

I must admit I was actually rather pleased when I heard they were
bringing it in, as it seemed a loophole to me. I do accept that there
was/is very little evidence of voter fraud (and it wouldn't, I think,
solve postal voter fraud anyway), and I'm against having to carry an
identity card, but where one's identity _is_ required for a specific
purpose (rather than just a spot check in the street), I can't see any
_objection_ to requiring it. (I'm not sure about it having to be a
_photo_ ID; there are plenty of other situations where proof of identity
is required, and I think most of them accept non-photo ones. Usually
things like utility/council-tax bills [I know utility ones are often
online these days], for example.)
I've recently seen a few clips on YouTube about members of the Amish
community and their encounters with civilisation (well, YKWIM);
apparently they don't agree with photographs - they consider them vanity
- and the authorities there allow a special form of ID for them that
doesn't have a photo on it. (The fact that one's driving-licence - or
similar - photo is often the furthest thing possible from vanity, has
been pointed out in many of the comments!)
Do we have Amish - or a group with a similar attitude to photographs -
in Britain in significant numbers? If we do, do we make a similar
concession re photo-IDs?

I don't know about the Amish but I believe that the last Mennonite
Chapel in the UK closed in, I think, 2008. Mennonites and Amish are, I
both, I believe, anabaptists and both hold similar philosophies.
DAMHIKT
Nick

EMNTK

I accept that everybody may have a different opinion about this but
for me, barring illness or accident, the second-worst way I could
imagine ending my days would be propped up in an armchair in a nursing
home. The worst way would be propped up in an armchair in a nursing
home in front of a big television set which is pumping rubbish out all
day long. So when I read a newspaper article about the closure of the
last Mennonite Chapel in London I thought, aha! This is my get-out
clause. If anyone tries to do that to me and since there's no longer
any real way of checking, I shall claim that I'm a Mennonite,
television is against my deeply-held beliefs and making me watch it is
religious persecution.
Nick

Care homes also have a quiet room with no tv. And every room has its tv as
well.
Mrs McT

I suspect that a TV is the cheapest form of ‘staff’ to amuse and pacify
inmates, one TV probably equals at least three underpaid care workers.😳

See also: Childcare

john

[Vicky]

On Sun, 5 May 2024 17:38:27 -0000 (UTC), Chris

Post by Chris

Post by Nick Odell

EMNTK

I accept that everybody may have a different opinion about this but
for me, barring illness or accident, the second-worst way I could
imagine ending my days would be propped up in an armchair in a nursing
home. The worst way would be propped up in an armchair in a nursing
home in front of a big television set which is pumping rubbish out all
day long. So when I read a newspaper article about the closure of the
last Mennonite Chapel in London I thought, aha! This is my get-out
clause. If anyone tries to do that to me and since there's no longer
any real way of checking, I shall claim that I'm a Mennonite,
television is against my deeply-held beliefs and making me watch it is
religious persecution.
Nick

Care homes also have a quiet room with no tv. And every room has its tv as
well.
Mrs McT

When my mum was still in her own home but already had dementia she had
the tv on most of the time. In the homes she was in for the last 10
years I didn't see a quiet room just the tv one or their own room. But
she died in 2006. Things might be different in some or all homes now.

[Chris]

Post by Vicky
On Sun, 5 May 2024 17:38:27 -0000 (UTC), Chris

Post by Chris

Post by Nick Odell

EMNTK

I accept that everybody may have a different opinion about this but
for me, barring illness or accident, the second-worst way I could
imagine ending my days would be propped up in an armchair in a nursing
home. The worst way would be propped up in an armchair in a nursing
home in front of a big television set which is pumping rubbish out all
day long. So when I read a newspaper article about the closure of the
last Mennonite Chapel in London I thought, aha! This is my get-out
clause. If anyone tries to do that to me and since there's no longer
any real way of checking, I shall claim that I'm a Mennonite,
television is against my deeply-held beliefs and making me watch it is
religious persecution.
Nick

Care homes also have a quiet room with no tv. And every room has its tv as
well.
Mrs McT

When my mum was still in her own home but already had dementia she had
the tv on most of the time. In the homes she was in for the last 10
years I didn't see a quiet room just the tv one or their own room. But
she died in 2006. Things might be different in some or all homes now.

I’ve been visiting care homes for most of the past decade and all the homes
have quiet areas, some but not my stepmum’s had one for computer use but
her home was for those with dementia at all levels.

Not visited anyone post covid mostly because my current friends are still
able to come out and join in communal events.

Mrs McT

[Kosmo]

Post by Chris

Post by Nick Odell

Post by Nick Odell

Post by J. P. Gilliver

Post by Kosmo

Post by nick
That Boris Johnson, instigator of the photo-id to vote laws should forget
to take his photo-id to vote in the local election?
Nick

Surely he would have said "Do you know who I am?"
This is one law which should be repealed without any further
consideration. We were long promised there was no need for identity
cards and there is no significant evidence of voter fraud, apart
possibly (and unproven) by postal voters where it is alleged a single
person completes the votes for the entire family.

I must admit I was actually rather pleased when I heard they were
bringing it in, as it seemed a loophole to me. I do accept that there
was/is very little evidence of voter fraud (and it wouldn't, I think,
solve postal voter fraud anyway), and I'm against having to carry an
identity card, but where one's identity _is_ required for a specific
purpose (rather than just a spot check in the street), I can't see any
_objection_ to requiring it. (I'm not sure about it having to be a
_photo_ ID; there are plenty of other situations where proof of identity
is required, and I think most of them accept non-photo ones. Usually
things like utility/council-tax bills [I know utility ones are often
online these days], for example.)
I've recently seen a few clips on YouTube about members of the Amish
community and their encounters with civilisation (well, YKWIM);
apparently they don't agree with photographs - they consider them vanity
- and the authorities there allow a special form of ID for them that
doesn't have a photo on it. (The fact that one's driving-licence - or
similar - photo is often the furthest thing possible from vanity, has
been pointed out in many of the comments!)
Do we have Amish - or a group with a similar attitude to photographs -
in Britain in significant numbers? If we do, do we make a similar
concession re photo-IDs?

I don't know about the Amish but I believe that the last Mennonite
Chapel in the UK closed in, I think, 2008. Mennonites and Amish are, I
both, I believe, anabaptists and both hold similar philosophies.
DAMHIKT
Nick

EMNTK

I accept that everybody may have a different opinion about this but
for me, barring illness or accident, the second-worst way I could
imagine ending my days would be propped up in an armchair in a nursing
home. The worst way would be propped up in an armchair in a nursing
home in front of a big television set which is pumping rubbish out all
day long. So when I read a newspaper article about the closure of the
last Mennonite Chapel in London I thought, aha! This is my get-out
clause. If anyone tries to do that to me and since there's no longer
any real way of checking, I shall claim that I'm a Mennonite,
television is against my deeply-held beliefs and making me watch it is
religious persecution.
Nick

Care homes also have a quiet room with no tv. And every room has its tv as
well.
Mrs McT

So if every room has a TV that includes the quiet room?

[john ashby]

Post by Kosmo

Post by Nick Odell

Post by Nick Odell

Post by J. P. Gilliver

Post by Kosmo

Post by nick
That Boris Johnson, instigator of the photo-id to vote laws should forget
to take his photo-id to vote in the local election?
Nick

Surely he would have said "Do you know who I am?"
This is one law which should be repealed without any further
consideration.  We were long promised there was no need for identity
cards and there is no significant evidence of voter fraud, apart
possibly (and unproven) by postal voters where it is alleged a single
person completes the votes for the entire family.

I must admit I was actually rather pleased when I heard they were
bringing it in, as it seemed a loophole to me. I do accept that there
was/is very little evidence of voter fraud (and it wouldn't, I think,
solve postal voter fraud anyway), and I'm against having to carry an
identity card, but where one's identity _is_ required for a specific
purpose (rather than just a spot check in the street), I can't see any
_objection_ to requiring it. (I'm not sure about it having to be a
_photo_ ID; there are plenty of other situations where proof of identity
is required, and I think most of them accept non-photo ones. Usually
things like utility/council-tax bills [I know utility ones are often
online these days], for example.)
I've recently seen a few clips on YouTube about members of the Amish
community and their encounters with civilisation (well, YKWIM);
apparently they don't agree with photographs - they consider them vanity
- and the authorities there allow a special form of ID for them that
doesn't have a photo on it. (The fact that one's driving-licence - or
similar - photo is often the furthest thing possible from vanity, has
been pointed out in many of the comments!)
Do we have Amish - or a group with a similar attitude to
photographs -
in Britain in significant numbers? If we do, do we make a similar
concession re photo-IDs?

I don't know about the Amish but I believe that the last Mennonite
Chapel in the UK closed in, I think, 2008. Mennonites and Amish are, I
both, I believe, anabaptists and both hold similar philosophies.
DAMHIKT
Nick

EMNTK

I accept that everybody may have a different opinion about this but
for me, barring illness or accident, the second-worst way I could
imagine ending my days would be propped up in an armchair in a nursing
home. The worst way would be propped up in an armchair in a nursing
home in front of a big television set which is pumping rubbish out all
day long. So when I read a newspaper article about the closure of the
last Mennonite Chapel in London I thought, aha! This is my get-out
clause. If anyone tries to do that to me and since there's no longer
any real way of checking, I shall claim that I'm a Mennonite,
television is against my deeply-held beliefs and making me watch it is
religious persecution.
Nick

Care homes also have a quiet room with no tv.  And every room has its
tv as
well.
Mrs McT

So if every room has a TV that includes the quiet room?

Russell's OAParadox.

john

[Mike McMillan]

Post by Kosmo

Post by Chris

Post by Nick Odell

Post by Nick Odell

Post by J. P. Gilliver

Post by Kosmo

Post by nick
That Boris Johnson, instigator of the photo-id to vote laws should forget
to take his photo-id to vote in the local election?
Nick

Surely he would have said "Do you know who I am?"
This is one law which should be repealed without any further
consideration. We were long promised there was no need for identity
cards and there is no significant evidence of voter fraud, apart
possibly (and unproven) by postal voters where it is alleged a single
person completes the votes for the entire family.

I must admit I was actually rather pleased when I heard they were
bringing it in, as it seemed a loophole to me. I do accept that there
was/is very little evidence of voter fraud (and it wouldn't, I think,
solve postal voter fraud anyway), and I'm against having to carry an
identity card, but where one's identity _is_ required for a specific
purpose (rather than just a spot check in the street), I can't see any
_objection_ to requiring it. (I'm not sure about it having to be a
_photo_ ID; there are plenty of other situations where proof of identity
is required, and I think most of them accept non-photo ones. Usually
things like utility/council-tax bills [I know utility ones are often
online these days], for example.)
I've recently seen a few clips on YouTube about members of the Amish
community and their encounters with civilisation (well, YKWIM);
apparently they don't agree with photographs - they consider them vanity
- and the authorities there allow a special form of ID for them that
doesn't have a photo on it. (The fact that one's driving-licence - or
similar - photo is often the furthest thing possible from vanity, has
been pointed out in many of the comments!)
Do we have Amish - or a group with a similar attitude to photographs -
in Britain in significant numbers? If we do, do we make a similar
concession re photo-IDs?

I don't know about the Amish but I believe that the last Mennonite
Chapel in the UK closed in, I think, 2008. Mennonites and Amish are, I
both, I believe, anabaptists and both hold similar philosophies.
DAMHIKT
Nick

EMNTK

I accept that everybody may have a different opinion about this but
for me, barring illness or accident, the second-worst way I could
imagine ending my days would be propped up in an armchair in a nursing
home. The worst way would be propped up in an armchair in a nursing
home in front of a big television set which is pumping rubbish out all
day long. So when I read a newspaper article about the closure of the
last Mennonite Chapel in London I thought, aha! This is my get-out
clause. If anyone tries to do that to me and since there's no longer
any real way of checking, I shall claim that I'm a Mennonite,
television is against my deeply-held beliefs and making me watch it is
religious persecution.
Nick

Care homes also have a quiet room with no tv. And every room has its tv as
well.
Mrs McT

So if every room has a TV that includes the quiet room?

‘BSL spoken here’

[Nick Odell]

Post by Kosmo

Post by nick
That Boris Johnson, instigator of the photo-id to vote laws should forget
to take his photo-id to vote in the local election?
Nick

Surely he would have said "Do you know who I am?"
This is one law which should be repealed without any further
consideration. We were long promised there was no need for identity
cards and there is no significant evidence of voter fraud, apart
possibly (and unproven) by postal voters where it is alleged a single
person completes the votes for the entire family.

It rather looks as if Marina Hyde has taken our thoughts and run with
them in the Grauniad today:
<https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/may/03/tory-mps-voter-id-rules-rishi-sunak-boris-johnson-local-elections>

Nick

[Chris]

Post by nick
That Boris Johnson, instigator of the photo-id to vote laws should forget
to take his photo-id to vote in the local election?
Nick

The very same!! Serves him right. You couldn’t make it up.

Mrs McT

[Sam Plusnet]

Post by Chris

Post by nick
That Boris Johnson, instigator of the photo-id to vote laws should forget
to take his photo-id to vote in the local election?
Nick

The very same!! Serves him right. You couldn’t make it up.

Boris grabbing a headline (in a very Boris way)? You wouldn't need to
make it up.