Ask EU: Topographical Joke Phrases

[Rosie Mitchell]

Is there a proper linguistic term for such joking phrases as

Glasgow salad (chips)
Glasgow kiss (a headbutt, a malky)
Birmingham screwdriver (a hammer)
Welsh rabbit (a cheese dish, and do not say "rarebit" in my hearing!)
Chelsea tractor (an urban 4×4 vehicle)
Brixton briefcase (a large radio/cassette player)
Bombay duck (a dried fish)
Bronx cheer (a vocal raspberry)

Can you think of others?

Rosie

[nick]

Post by Rosie Mitchell
Is there a proper linguistic term for such joking phrases as
Glasgow salad (chips)
Glasgow kiss (a headbutt, a malky)
Birmingham screwdriver (a hammer)
Welsh rabbit (a cheese dish, and do not say "rarebit" in my hearing!)
Chelsea tractor (an urban 4×4 vehicle)
Brixton briefcase (a large radio/cassette player)
Bombay duck (a dried fish)
Bronx cheer (a vocal raspberry)
Can you think of others?
Rosie

I'm buggered if I can think of of either the term you are looking for or
any more of them but I didn't want to leave your message lying there all
orphaned and alone.

Nick

[J. P. Gilliver]

Post by nick

Post by Rosie Mitchell
Is there a proper linguistic term for such joking phrases as
Glasgow salad (chips)
Glasgow kiss (a headbutt, a malky)
Birmingham screwdriver (a hammer)
Welsh rabbit (a cheese dish, and do not say "rarebit" in my hearing!)
Chelsea tractor (an urban 4×4 vehicle)
Brixton briefcase (a large radio/cassette player)
Bombay duck (a dried fish)
Bronx cheer (a vocal raspberry)
Can you think of others?
Rosie

I'm buggered if I can think of of either the term you are looking for or
any more of them but I didn't want to leave your message lying there all
orphaned and alone.
Nick

Likewise, so I've forwarded the question to brother; normally I hesitate
for just general dictionary-type queries as he (justifiably!) tends to
say "look it up yourself" [using my library card], but this one I
thought I could safely ask him.

[J. P. Gilliver]

Post by J. P. Gilliver

Post by Rosie Mitchell
Is there a proper linguistic term for such joking phrases as
Glasgow salad (chips)
Glasgow kiss (a headbutt, a malky)
Birmingham screwdriver (a hammer)
Welsh rabbit (a cheese dish, and do not say "rarebit" in my hearing!)
Chelsea tractor (an urban 4×4 vehicle)
Brixton briefcase (a large radio/cassette player)
Bombay duck (a dried fish)
Bronx cheer (a vocal raspberry)

[]

Post by J. P. Gilliver
Likewise, so I've forwarded the question to brother; normally I
hesitate for just general dictionary-type queries as he (justifiably!)
tends to say "look it up yourself" [using my library card], but this
one I thought I could safely ask him.

And here's his answer:

Can't think of a specific word (and I did look - this is the kind of
thing that the OED's embedded Thesaurus function is quite helpful for,
though it didn't help on this occasion). An eponym is of course a word
derived from a proper name, but that's too general. I suppose 'ironic
eponym' or 'humorous eponym' may be the best we can do. (Often there
isn't a single word for something, even when people think there might
be, or want there to be.)


Interestingly Bombay duck might have originally not been one of these at
all. Here OED isn't much help (we haven't yet revised the entry), but
the account given in Wikipedia is rather intriguing.

[Rosie Mitchell]

Post by J. P. Gilliver

Post by J. P. Gilliver

Post by Rosie Mitchell
Is there a proper linguistic term for such joking phrases as
Glasgow salad (chips)
Glasgow kiss (a headbutt, a malky)
Birmingham screwdriver (a hammer)
Welsh rabbit (a cheese dish, and do not say "rarebit" in my hearing!)
Chelsea tractor (an urban 4×4 vehicle)
Brixton briefcase (a large radio/cassette player)
Bombay duck (a dried fish)
Bronx cheer (a vocal raspberry)

[]

Post by J. P. Gilliver
Likewise, so I've forwarded the question to brother; normally I
hesitate for just general dictionary-type queries as he
(justifiably!) tends to say "look it up yourself" [using my library
card], but this one I thought I could safely ask him.

Can't think of a specific word (and I did look - this is the kind of
thing that the OED's embedded Thesaurus function is quite helpful for,
though it didn't help on this occasion). An eponym is of course a word
derived from a proper name, but that's too general. I suppose 'ironic
eponym' or 'humorous eponym' may be the best we can do. (Often there
isn't a single word for something, even when people think there might
be, or want there to be.)
Interestingly Bombay duck might have originally not been one of these
at all. Here OED isn't much help (we haven't yet revised the entry),
but the account given in Wikipedia is rather intriguing.

Thank you Jpeg's bro for that answer, and thank you Jpeg for asking him.

Rosie

[Rosie Mitchell]

Post by J. P. Gilliver
Interestingly Bombay duck might have originally not been one of these
at all. Here OED isn't much help (we haven't yet revised the entry),
but the account given in Wikipedia is rather intriguing.

Indeed it is!

Rosie

[Jenny M Benson]

Post by J. P. Gilliver

Post by J. P. Gilliver
Likewise, so I've forwarded the question to brother; normally I
hesitate for just general dictionary-type queries as he (justifiably!)
tends to say "look it up yourself" [using my library card], but this
one I thought I could safely ask him.

Can't think of a specific word (and I did look - this is the kind of
thing that the OED's embedded Thesaurus function is quite helpful for,
though it didn't help on this occasion). An eponym is of course a word
derived from a proper name, but that's too general. I suppose 'ironic
eponym' or 'humorous eponym' may be the best we can do. (Often there
isn't a single word for something, even when people think there might
be, or want there to be.)

I have seen the word "toponomy" used in relation to Douglas Adams'
Meaning of Liff.

I mentally spit at the very mention of that book. A few years before it
was published my daughter and I came up with a selection of terms which
we named "Destination Definitions." There were various placenames
prefaced by "going to", such as "Going to Flimby Station" (meaning
getting drunk), "Going to Whitehaven" (meaning dying or being killed),
"Going to [...]" (meaning being hungry, but I decline to name the place
concerned. There were, of course, particular reasons why these places
came to be thus associated.

[J. P. Gilliver]

In message <***@mid.individual.net> at Tue, 21 May 2024
22:21:21, Jenny M Benson <***@hotmail.co.uk> writes
[]

Post by Jenny M Benson
I have seen the word "toponomy" used in relation to Douglas Adams'
Meaning of Liff.
I mentally spit at the very mention of that book. A few years before
it was published my daughter and I came up with a selection of terms
which we named "Destination Definitions." There were various
placenames prefaced by "going to", such as "Going to Flimby Station"
(meaning getting drunk), "Going to Whitehaven" (meaning dying or being
killed), "Going to [...]" (meaning being hungry, but I decline to name
the place concerned. There were, of course, particular reasons why
these places came to be thus associated.

I don't think there was any malice (or plagiarism) involved in the
Meaning of Liff. It wasn't meant to be a scholarly analysis of
placenames - it was just that DNA (and someone else; IIRR it was a joint
effort with another whose name I've forgotten) often thought placenames
_sounded_ as if they meant something, and decided to produce a
light-hearted book about such feelings. (I suspect we've all felt that:
the part of Oxford my brother lives in is Iffley; I've always thought
that sounds like an adjective - "I feel a bit iffley at the moment". DNA
and friend [John Lloyd was it?] were just in a position to publish the
book.)

If you want scholarly analysis of placenames, there are several -
there's one in particular, I think it might be called Equall (sp?).

[Jenny M Benson]

Post by J. P. Gilliver
I don't think there was any malice (or plagiarism) involved in the
Meaning of Liff.

My ire was generated solely by the fact that I hadn't thought of
publishing a book of the idea and making a lot of money. The idea of
actual plagiarism hadn't occurred to me ... but come to think of it, I
did live near (and used to visit) a good friend of Douglas Adams!

[Rosie Mitchell]

Post by Jenny M Benson

Post by J. P. Gilliver

Post by J. P. Gilliver
Likewise, so I've forwarded the question to brother; normally I
hesitate for just general dictionary-type queries as he
(justifiably!) tends to say "look it up yourself" [using my library
card], but this one I thought I could safely ask him.

Can't think of a specific word (and I did look - this is the kind of
thing that the OED's embedded Thesaurus function is quite helpful
for, though it didn't help on this occasion). An eponym is of course
a word derived from a proper name, but that's too general. I suppose
'ironic eponym' or 'humorous eponym' may be the best we can
do. (Often there isn't a single word for something, even when people
think there might be, or want there to be.)

I have seen the word "toponomy" used in relation to Douglas Adams'
Meaning of Liff.
I mentally spit at the very mention of that book. A few years before
it was published my daughter and I came up with a selection of terms
which we named "Destination Definitions." There were various
placenames prefaced by "going to", such as "Going to Flimby Station"
(meaning getting drunk), "Going to Whitehaven" (meaning dying or being
killed), "Going to [...]" (meaning being hungry, but I decline to name
the place concerned. There were, of course, particular reasons why
these places came to be thus associated.

The authors plagiarised Paul Jennings, who had written a piece called
"Ware? Wye? Watford?" (in Punch I think). They claimed never to have
heard of it (which isn't a defence against plagiarism anyway) but as it
happens *I* had heard of it and I'm usually the last to know these
things so if I was familiar with it then surely the witty and urbane Mr
Adams and Mr Lloyd would have known.

Rosie

[john ashby]

Post by Rosie Mitchell

Post by Jenny M Benson

Post by J. P. Gilliver

Post by J. P. Gilliver
Likewise, so I've forwarded the question to brother; normally I
hesitate for just general dictionary-type queries as he
(justifiably!) tends to say "look it up yourself" [using my library
card], but this one I thought I could safely ask him.

Can't think of a specific word (and I did look - this is the kind of
thing that the OED's embedded Thesaurus function is quite helpful
for, though it didn't help on this occasion). An eponym is of course
a word derived from a proper name, but that's too general. I suppose
'ironic eponym' or 'humorous eponym' may be the best we can
do. (Often there isn't a single word for something, even when people
think there might be, or want there to be.)

I have seen the word "toponomy" used in relation to Douglas Adams'
Meaning of Liff.
I mentally spit at the very mention of that book. A few years before
it was published my daughter and I came up with a selection of terms
which we named "Destination Definitions." There were various
placenames prefaced by "going to", such as "Going to Flimby Station"
(meaning getting drunk), "Going to Whitehaven" (meaning dying or being
killed), "Going to [...]" (meaning being hungry, but I decline to name
the place concerned. There were, of course, particular reasons why
these places came to be thus associated.

The authors plagiarised Paul Jennings, who had written a piece called
"Ware? Wye? Watford?" (in Punch I think). They claimed never to have
heard of it (which isn't a defence against plagiarism anyway) but as it
happens *I* had heard of it and I'm usually the last to know these
things so if I was familiar with it then surely the witty and urbane Mr
Adams and Mr Lloyd would have known.
Rosie

Any relation to Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings?

ITWSBT

john

[Kate B]

Post by Rosie Mitchell

Post by Jenny M Benson

Post by J. P. Gilliver

Post by J. P. Gilliver
Likewise, so I've forwarded the question to brother; normally I
hesitate for just general dictionary-type queries as he
(justifiably!) tends to say "look it up yourself" [using my library
card], but this one I thought I could safely ask him.

Can't think of a specific word (and I did look - this is the kind of
thing that the OED's embedded Thesaurus function is quite helpful
for, though it didn't help on this occasion). An eponym is of course
a word derived from a proper name, but that's too general. I suppose
'ironic eponym' or 'humorous eponym' may be the best we can
do. (Often there isn't a single word for something, even when people
think there might be, or want there to be.)

I have seen the word "toponomy" used in relation to Douglas Adams'
Meaning of Liff.
I mentally spit at the very mention of that book. A few years before
it was published my daughter and I came up with a selection of terms
which we named "Destination Definitions." There were various
placenames prefaced by "going to", such as "Going to Flimby Station"
(meaning getting drunk), "Going to Whitehaven" (meaning dying or being
killed), "Going to [...]" (meaning being hungry, but I decline to name
the place concerned. There were, of course, particular reasons why
these places came to be thus associated.

The authors plagiarised Paul Jennings, who had written a piece called
"Ware? Wye? Watford?" (in Punch I think). They claimed never to have
heard of it (which isn't a defence against plagiarism anyway) but as it
happens *I* had heard of it and I'm usually the last to know these
things so if I was familiar with it then surely the witty and urbane Mr
Adams and Mr Lloyd would have known.

<small knicker-flash> I knew Douglas Adams. I went to college with his
wife, and his sister-in-law is a close friend and colleague, who
designed several operas I directed. He was a complete magpie and it's
perfectly possible that he pinched the idea from elsewhere, though as
Jenny's example shows, Paul Jennings (a writer of whom I'm very fond)
wasn't unique in thinking of it, and I'm now wondering when ISIHAC's
version first appeared. Douglas's mind was certainly extraordinary, and
he was part of a fantastically verbally imaginative circle - they played
uber-clever word games all the time and frankly ad nauseam. Not all the
ideas made it to publication, and some may feel thankful for that.

[J. P. Gilliver]

In message <***@mid.individual.net> at Wed, 22 May 2024
11:39:29, Kate B <***@nospam.demon.co.uk> writes
[]

Post by Kate B
<small knicker-flash> I knew Douglas Adams. I went to college with his
wife, and his sister-in-law is a close friend and colleague, who
designed several operas I directed. He was a complete magpie and it's
perfectly possible that he pinched the idea from elsewhere, though as
Jenny's example shows, Paul Jennings (a writer of whom I'm very fond)
wasn't unique in thinking of it, and I'm now wondering when ISIHAC's

[]
So, DNA was like his muse in yet another respect!

Oscar Wilde: "I wish I'd said that!"
his friends: "you will, Oscar, you will!"

(OK, I quote people a lot, too. But I _hope_ I credit the sources.
[Which include many UMRAts.])

[Sam Plusnet]

Post by J. P. Gilliver
[]

Post by Kate B
<small knicker-flash> I knew Douglas Adams. I went to college with his
wife, and his sister-in-law is a close friend and colleague, who
designed several operas I directed. He was a complete magpie and it's
perfectly possible that he pinched the idea from elsewhere, though as
Jenny's example shows, Paul Jennings (a writer of whom I'm very fond)
wasn't unique in thinking of it, and I'm now wondering when ISIHAC's

[]
So, DNA was like his muse in yet another respect!
Oscar Wilde: "I wish I'd said that!"
his friends: "you will, Oscar, you will!"
(OK, I quote people a lot, too. But I _hope_ I credit the sources.
[Which include many UMRAts.])

Splendid post John. Especially because the quote in your sig was
unattributed.

[J. P. Gilliver]

Post by Sam Plusnet

Post by J. P. Gilliver
[]

Post by Kate B
<small knicker-flash> I knew Douglas Adams. I went to college with
his wife, and his sister-in-law is a close friend and colleague, who
designed several operas I directed. He was a complete magpie and it's
perfectly possible that he pinched the idea from elsewhere, though as
Jenny's example shows, Paul Jennings (a writer of whom I'm very fond)
wasn't unique in thinking of it, and I'm now wondering when ISIHAC's

[]
So, DNA was like his muse in yet another respect!
Oscar Wilde: "I wish I'd said that!"
his friends: "you will, Oscar, you will!"
(OK, I quote people a lot, too. But I _hope_ I credit the sources.
[Which include many UMRAts.])

Splendid post John. Especially because the quote in your sig was
unattributed.

Oops! I credit the sources _where I know them_!

[Nick Odell]

Post by nick

Post by Rosie Mitchell
Is there a proper linguistic term for such joking phrases as
Glasgow salad (chips)
Glasgow kiss (a headbutt, a malky)
Birmingham screwdriver (a hammer)
Welsh rabbit (a cheese dish, and do not say "rarebit" in my hearing!)
Chelsea tractor (an urban 4×4 vehicle)
Brixton briefcase (a large radio/cassette player)
Bombay duck (a dried fish)
Bronx cheer (a vocal raspberry)
Can you think of others?
Rosie

I'm buggered if I can think of of either the term you are looking for or
any more of them but I didn't want to leave your message lying there all
orphaned and alone.

Apologies: that should have read as a more umra-approved "nugger" but
on the stupid little hand-held thingy I hadn't spotted the
autocorrect.

Nick

[occam]

Post by Rosie Mitchell
Is there a proper linguistic term for such joking phrases as
Glasgow salad (chips)
Glasgow kiss (a headbutt, a malky)
Birmingham screwdriver (a hammer)
Welsh rabbit (a cheese dish, and do not say "rarebit" in my hearing!)
Chelsea tractor (an urban 4×4 vehicle)
Brixton briefcase (a large radio/cassette player)
Bombay duck (a dried fish)
Bronx cheer (a vocal raspberry)
Can you think of others?

News of your query reached another Usenet group. Here are a couple more
for your list:

Scottish tan (sunburn)
New York salute (the middle finger)

P.S. I don't think Welsh rabbit or Bombay duck belong on your list. They
are bona fide menu items.