OT: Smart meters and storage heaters

[Joe Kerr]

I have storage heaters.
I have a multi-rate (Economy 7 like) tariff.
I am informed that the existing meter will stop working next year when
the Droitwich transmitter is switched off so needs to be replaced with a
smart meter.
Comparison web sites can not handle multi-price tariffs.
Electricity companies seem to keep their multi-price tariffs under the
counter in a plain wrapping for special customers who know what to ask for.

Does anyone have any experience (or even just knowledge) of smart meters
with multi-price tariffs? I'd like to be in a position of knowledge, if
not power, when talking to those who need to be talked to. There must be
plenty of people affected by this.

Google has been of no help so far.

[BrritSki]

Post by Joe Kerr
I have storage heaters.
I have a multi-rate (Economy 7 like) tariff.
I am informed that the existing meter will stop working next year when
the Droitwich transmitter is switched off so needs to be replaced with a
smart meter.
Comparison web sites can not handle multi-price tariffs.
Electricity companies seem to keep their multi-price tariffs under the
counter in a plain wrapping for special customers who know what to ask for.
Does anyone have any experience (or even just knowledge) of smart meters
with multi-price tariffs? I'd like to be in a position of knowledge, if
not power, when talking to those who need to be talked to. There must be
plenty of people affected by this.

I am on Octopus Flux with a smart meter and get cheap electricity
overnight for 3 hours. Probably not enough for your storage heaters, but
no doubt there are other tariffs with longer cheap overnight periods.

[BrritSki]

Post by BrritSki

Post by Joe Kerr
I have storage heaters.
I have a multi-rate (Economy 7 like) tariff.
I am informed that the existing meter will stop working next year when
the Droitwich transmitter is switched off so needs to be replaced with
a smart meter.
Comparison web sites can not handle multi-price tariffs.
Electricity companies seem to keep their multi-price tariffs under the
counter in a plain wrapping for special customers who know what to ask for.
Does anyone have any experience (or even just knowledge) of smart
meters with multi-price tariffs? I'd like to be in a position of
knowledge, if not power, when talking to those who need to be talked
to. There must be plenty of people affected by this.

I am on Octopus Flux with a smart meter and get cheap electricity
overnight for 3 hours. Probably not enough for your storage heaters, but
no doubt there are other tariffs with longer cheap overnight periods.

Just looked and Octopus suggests Agile is your best bet with storage
heaters assuming no other green tech like solar or batteries. Not a
fixed price, but varies according to production and demand throughout
the day. McToodles is on this I think, so can give some idea of
overnight prices and when they are cheap.
<https://agile.octopushome.net/dashboard>

They also have a Tracker package, but I don;t think that is cheap overnight.

Best solution is to buy a cheap second hand EV as then you can get 6
hours of overnight power at 7p.

[Joe Kerr]

Post by BrritSki

Post by BrritSki

Post by Joe Kerr
I have storage heaters.
I have a multi-rate (Economy 7 like) tariff.
I am informed that the existing meter will stop working next year
when the Droitwich transmitter is switched off so needs to be
replaced with a smart meter.
Comparison web sites can not handle multi-price tariffs.
Electricity companies seem to keep their multi-price tariffs under
the counter in a plain wrapping for special customers who know what
to ask for.
Does anyone have any experience (or even just knowledge) of smart
meters with multi-price tariffs? I'd like to be in a position of
knowledge, if not power, when talking to those who need to be talked
to. There must be plenty of people affected by this.

I am on Octopus Flux with a smart meter and get cheap electricity
overnight for 3 hours. Probably not enough for your storage heaters,
but no doubt there are other tariffs with longer cheap overnight periods.

Just looked and Octopus suggests Agile is your best bet with storage
heaters assuming no other green tech like solar or batteries. Not a
fixed price, but varies according to production and demand throughout
the day. McToodles is on this I think, so can give some idea of
overnight prices and when they are cheap.
<https://agile.octopushome.net/dashboard>
They also have a Tracker package, but I don;t think that is cheap overnight.
Best solution is to buy a cheap second hand EV as then you can get 6
hours of overnight power at 7p.

Thanks Mike and BrittSki. I'll take a look at Octopus and see what they
have to say.

I think I might have a plan: Ditch the property and let somebody else
worry about it. That may sound drastic but I was was going to do it
anyway.This looks like an incentive to get on with it and leave the
somebody enough time to get it sorted before the meter goes bye-bye.

[BrritSki]

Post by Joe Kerr
Thanks Mike and BrittSki. I'll take a look at Octopus and see what they
have to say.

No probs.

Post by Joe Kerr
I think I might have a plan: Ditch the property and let somebody else
worry about it. That may sound drastic but I was was going to do it
anyway.This looks like an incentive to get on with it and leave the
somebody enough time to get it sorted before the meter goes bye-bye.

That's a bit drastic, but would certainly work ! :)

[Mike McMillan]

Post by Joe Kerr
I have storage heaters.
I have a multi-rate (Economy 7 like) tariff.
I am informed that the existing meter will stop working next year when
the Droitwich transmitter is switched off so needs to be replaced with a
smart meter.
Comparison web sites can not handle multi-price tariffs.
Electricity companies seem to keep their multi-price tariffs under the
counter in a plain wrapping for special customers who know what to ask for.
Does anyone have any experience (or even just knowledge) of smart meters
with multi-price tariffs? I'd like to be in a position of knowledge, if
not power, when talking to those who need to be talked to. There must be
plenty of people affected by this.
Google has been of no help so far.

We are with Octopus Energy (and I can provide a referral discount voucher
reference if you wish) and have a SMETS1 (on-line updated to SMETS1 and a
bit) meter. We are on the Cosy Tariff; this offers a 3 tier rate and the
cheapest of these operate for 3, 3 and 2 hours spread over each 24 hours.
Those 8 hours are sufficient to ensure my battery is charged and we are
effectively ‘off-grid’ for the other 16 hours each day and this charge
keeps us and the all-electric house going including the heat pump. There
are numerous other tariffs too so let me know if this is the sort of thing
you are interested in knowing about.

[BrritSki]

Post by Mike McMillan

Post by Joe Kerr
I have storage heaters.
I have a multi-rate (Economy 7 like) tariff.
I am informed that the existing meter will stop working next year when
the Droitwich transmitter is switched off so needs to be replaced with a
smart meter.
Comparison web sites can not handle multi-price tariffs.
Electricity companies seem to keep their multi-price tariffs under the
counter in a plain wrapping for special customers who know what to ask for.
Does anyone have any experience (or even just knowledge) of smart meters
with multi-price tariffs? I'd like to be in a position of knowledge, if
not power, when talking to those who need to be talked to. There must be
plenty of people affected by this.
Google has been of no help so far.

We are with Octopus Energy (and I can provide a referral discount voucher
reference if you wish) and have a SMETS1 (on-line updated to SMETS1 and a
bit) meter. We are on the Cosy Tariff; this offers a 3 tier rate and the
cheapest of these operate for 3, 3 and 2 hours spread over each 24 hours.
Those 8 hours are sufficient to ensure my battery is charged and we are
effectively ‘off-grid’ for the other 16 hours each day and this charge
keeps us and the all-electric house going including the heat pump. There
are numerous other tariffs too so let me know if this is the sort of thing
you are interested in knowing about.

You have to have a heat pump or electric boiler to be eligible though.

2hand EV cheaper to buy and gives a better rate ! ;)

[John Armstrong]

Post by Joe Kerr
I have storage heaters.
I have a multi-rate (Economy 7 like) tariff.
I am informed that the existing meter will stop working next year when
the Droitwich transmitter is switched off so needs to be replaced with a
smart meter.
Comparison web sites can not handle multi-price tariffs.
Electricity companies seem to keep their multi-price tariffs under the
counter in a plain wrapping for special customers who know what to ask for.
Does anyone have any experience (or even just knowledge) of smart meters
with multi-price tariffs? I'd like to be in a position of knowledge, if
not power, when talking to those who need to be talked to. There must be
plenty of people affected by this.
Google has been of no help so far.

I am in this situation, except that "my" transmitter is at Westerglen
near Falkirk. Radio controlled off peak heating is widespread in many
remote parts of Scotland, where the gas network does not reach. The
planned switch off has already been postponed at least twice, and nobody
in the business seems to know what will happen.

My supplier (ie the outfit I pay money to) is EDF, because they are one
of the few suppliers who deal with this sort of tariff. They have been
very helpful in the past, but they don't know what's going to happen,
and tell me it's up to the PES for my area.

The PES (Public Electricity Supplier) for my area is what used to be
called Scottish Hydro, then Scottish and Southern Energy, but they're
now called OVO. They either don't know, or are not saying. I suspect
they haven't a clue. EDF, PES, OVO - it's all a bit of an MFU.

[Mike McMillan]

Post by John Armstrong

Post by Joe Kerr
I have storage heaters.
I have a multi-rate (Economy 7 like) tariff.
I am informed that the existing meter will stop working next year when
the Droitwich transmitter is switched off so needs to be replaced with a
smart meter.
Comparison web sites can not handle multi-price tariffs.
Electricity companies seem to keep their multi-price tariffs under the
counter in a plain wrapping for special customers who know what to ask for.
Does anyone have any experience (or even just knowledge) of smart meters
with multi-price tariffs? I'd like to be in a position of knowledge, if
not power, when talking to those who need to be talked to. There must be
plenty of people affected by this.
Google has been of no help so far.

I am in this situation, except that "my" transmitter is at Westerglen
near Falkirk. Radio controlled off peak heating is widespread in many
remote parts of Scotland, where the gas network does not reach. The
planned switch off has already been postponed at least twice, and nobody
in the business seems to know what will happen.
My supplier (ie the outfit I pay money to) is EDF, because they are one
of the few suppliers who deal with this sort of tariff. They have been
very helpful in the past, but they don't know what's going to happen,
and tell me it's up to the PES for my area.
The PES (Public Electricity Supplier) for my area is what used to be
called Scottish Hydro, then Scottish and Southern Energy, but they're
now called OVO. They either don't know, or are not saying. I suspect
they haven't a clue. EDF, PES, OVO - it's all a bit of an MFU.

There is a forum I follow (and contribute to) called Renewable Heating and
you can find it at: renewableheatinghub.co.uk and you would all be most
welcomed to join - very informative and very friendly. Come along and ask
any questions relating to heat pumps, smart meters, energy suppliers,
tariffs, ventilation, EV charging, solar panels etc. - and even unrelated
issues! A sort of more controlled UMRA in many ways.

[John Armstrong]

Post by Mike McMillan
There is a forum I follow (and contribute to) called Renewable Heating and
you can find it at: renewableheatinghub.co.uk and you would all be most
welcomed to join - very informative and very friendly. Come along and ask
any questions relating to heat pumps, smart meters, energy suppliers,
tariffs, ventilation, EV charging, solar panels etc. - and even unrelated
issues! A sort of more controlled UMRA in many ways.

Thank you. I'll have a look at this.

[Joe Kerr]

Post by John Armstrong

Post by Joe Kerr
I have storage heaters.
I have a multi-rate (Economy 7 like) tariff.
I am informed that the existing meter will stop working next year when
the Droitwich transmitter is switched off so needs to be replaced with
a smart meter.
Comparison web sites can not handle multi-price tariffs.
Electricity companies seem to keep their multi-price tariffs under the
counter in a plain wrapping for special customers who know what to ask for.
Does anyone have any experience (or even just knowledge) of smart
meters with multi-price tariffs? I'd like to be in a position of
knowledge, if not power, when talking to those who need to be talked
to. There must be plenty of people affected by this.
Google has been of no help so far.

I am in this situation, except that "my" transmitter is at Westerglen
near Falkirk. Radio controlled off peak heating is widespread in many
remote parts of Scotland, where the gas network does not reach. The
planned switch off has already been postponed at least twice, and nobody
in the business seems to know what will happen.

That sounds "interesting". I suspect that some of the remote areas don't
get much of a mobile signal either so smart meters won't work.

Post by John Armstrong
My supplier (ie the outfit I pay money to) is EDF, because they are one
of the few suppliers who deal with this sort of tariff. They have been
very helpful in the past, but they don't know what's going to happen,
and tell me it's up to the PES for my area.
The PES (Public Electricity Supplier) for my area is what used to be
called Scottish Hydro, then Scottish and Southern Energy, but they're
now called OVO. They either don't know, or are not saying. I suspect
they haven't a clue. EDF, PES, OVO - it's all a bit of an MFU.

Nugger! It's OVO I have to deal with.

[John Armstrong]

Post by Joe Kerr

Post by John Armstrong
I am in this situation, except that "my" transmitter is at Westerglen
near Falkirk. Radio controlled off peak heating is widespread in many
remote parts of Scotland, where the gas network does not reach. The
planned switch off has already been postponed at least twice, and
nobody in the business seems to know what will happen.

That sounds "interesting". I suspect that some of the remote areas don't
get much of a mobile signal either so smart meters won't work.

This is very true, and I suspect is one of the reasons this can has been
repeatedly kicked down the road.

There is some interesting info here:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66644709

although the article does contain this appallingly egregious statement
of misinformation:

"The long wave transmitter at Droitwich also supplies a service called
the Radio Teleswitch Service (RTS), which beams energy tariffs to some
electricity meters. Just under one million such meters are still in use
in the UK."

"beams energy tariffs". Really? Well, that is entirely indicative of the
abysmally low standard of technical journalism today, especially from
the BBC, who might have been expected to know better.

What no-one is saying is what will happen if the transmitter valves
break down. Presumably teleswitches set to "on" will remain on, and vice
versa.

So we'll either overheat or freeze to death.

[nick]

I have no personal experience in this subject - but when did this ever
stop me having an opinion, eh?

First of all, I'd strongly suggest asking your question again on
uk.d-i-y where all sorts of knowledgeable people hang out, including
John Rumm who is the main maintainer of the uk.d-i-y wiki which can be
found here:
https://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Main_Page
and may even answer your questions with a previously written article.

In the process of looking for the uk.d-i-y wiki I also stumbled upon
some advice from Worcestershire County Council which seems to be
appropriate to your situation:
<https://www.worcestershire.gov.uk/council-services/environment/sustainability-and-carbon-reduction/do-you-have-economy-7-tariff>

Good luck,

Nick

[Joe Kerr]

Post by nick
I have no personal experience in this subject - but when did this ever
stop me having an opinion, eh?

In the land of the blind the man with Amazon Alexa is king. Or whatever
the saying is.

Post by nick
First of all, I'd strongly suggest asking your question again on
uk.d-i-y where all sorts of knowledgeable people hang out, including
John Rumm who is the main maintainer of the uk.d-i-y wiki which can be
https://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Main_Page
and may even answer your questions with a previously written article.

I'll take a look at that when I get some time.

Post by nick
In the process of looking for the uk.d-i-y wiki I also stumbled upon
some advice from Worcestershire County Council which seems to be
<https://www.worcestershire.gov.uk/council-services/environment/sustainability-and-carbon-reduction/do-you-have-economy-7-tariff>

Thanks for that. It says that things should keep working the same with a
smart meter, which is not what was implied by the notification I was
sent - possibly because I'm on three prices (day, night & heat), not
just two.

Post by nick
Good luck,
Nick