Discussion:
OT: Tesla Battery update
(too old to reply)
BrritSki
2024-07-01 15:02:22 UTC
Permalink
Well we finally got onto Octopus Flux Export at the start of June.

What a sorry saga that was with them - very slow to respond even when I
had their attention with people working weird "flexible" hours
(presumably at home) replying late at night and taking 2 days on average
for a response.

It was so bad that they agreed to compensate me by paying me for
everything I had lost as a result of the delay, including the first
month when I would have been waiting if they'd met their targets.

I sent them my spreadsheet where I'd downloaded the daily Tesla app data
(1 row for every 5 minutes over 24 hours) which I summarized and costed
according to the appropriate rate and they paid for both the actual
power generated I'd been unable to export at the advantageous Flux rates
as well as the notional amounts that I would have been able to earn
using my strategy of filling the battery up 100% every night and then
selling 90% of what was in the battery during the peak period 4-7PM.
Offset by what I was making on the old FIT deemed export this amounted
to £220 for the 3 months including £50 as a goodwill gesture.

For June we also made approx £70 net (including an estimate for the
first 3 days before we were switched). It will be interesting to see if
my estimates match what Octopus actually pay.

These amounts are the difference between what I exported and what I
imported, so in addition there are savings I am making because I am
completely avoiding the electricity charges that I had to pay last year
with amounts to over £400pa. I expect the next 3 months will be similar
to June and even in the depths of winter we should make money for
several days if not for the whole month, so things are looking good for
the ROI being quite a bit less than 10 years.

Mike - when will I get my bill for all this ? We didn't get our normal
bill at the end of June when I was expecting to see all the detail....
Or is it quarterly like the FIT payments ?
J. P. Gilliver
2024-07-01 18:45:15 UTC
Permalink
Glad it _looks_ like you're getting somewhere.

In message <***@mid.individual.net> at Mon, 1 Jul 2024
16:02:22, BrritSki <***@gmail.com> writes
[]
Post by BrritSki
Offset by what I was making on the old FIT deemed export this amounted
to £220 for the 3 months including £50 as a goodwill gesture.
[]
I am getting increasingly irritated by that phrase, as (a) there is
usually precious little goodwill involved on either side, and (b) it is
_often_ accompanied by an - implicitly stated or just implied - lack of
acknowledgement of error.

I'm wondering how one would get on with something like:

I accept your payment, but not as a "goodwill gesture", but as
compensation for inconvenience called, and an admission on your part
that you were {at fault}/{in error} in the matter concerned. I do not
expect to have to correct the same fault/error again.

I guess most people are just happy to get an unexpected payment so don't
rock the boat, but I've seen "goodwill gesture" or similar phrases too
often to actually believe it isn't an attempt to avoid admission of
error and nothing to do with goodwill.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Can a blue man sing the whites?
john ashby
2024-07-01 19:00:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver
Glad it _looks_ like you're getting somewhere.
[]
Post by BrritSki
Offset by what I was making on the old FIT deemed export this amounted
to £220 for the 3 months including £50 as a goodwill gesture.
[]
I am getting increasingly irritated by that phrase, as (a) there is
usually precious little goodwill involved on either side, and (b) it is
_often_ accompanied by an - implicitly stated or just implied - lack of
acknowledgement of error.
I accept your payment, but not as a "goodwill gesture", but as
compensation for inconvenience called, and an admission on your part
that you were {at fault}/{in error} in the matter concerned. I do not
expect to have to correct the same fault/error again.
I guess most people are just happy to get an unexpected payment so don't
rock the boat, but I've seen "goodwill gesture" or similar phrases too
often to actually believe it isn't an attempt to avoid admission of
error and nothing to do with goodwill.
I was reading a consumer complaint in The Guardian today from someone
who had lost broadband from EE. EE tried to wriggle out of the
compensation they are obliged by Ofcom to provide by claiming that the
time they spend faffing around failing to diagnose the problem didn't
count, it was only once the problem was passed to OpenReach that the
clock started. After intervention it was eventually resolved with a
"goodwill gesture2 that curiously exactly matched the compensation due.

john
Mike McMillan
2024-07-02 10:02:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver
Glad it _looks_ like you're getting somewhere.
[]
Post by BrritSki
Offset by what I was making on the old FIT deemed export this amounted
to £220 for the 3 months including £50 as a goodwill gesture.
[]
I am getting increasingly irritated by that phrase, as (a) there is
usually precious little goodwill involved on either side, and (b) it is
_often_ accompanied by an - implicitly stated or just implied - lack of
acknowledgement of error.
I accept your payment, but not as a "goodwill gesture", but as
compensation for inconvenience called, and an admission on your part
that you were {at fault}/{in error} in the matter concerned. I do not
expect to have to correct the same fault/error again.
I guess most people are just happy to get an unexpected payment so don't
rock the boat, but I've seen "goodwill gesture" or similar phrases too
often to actually believe it isn't an attempt to avoid admission of
error and nothing to do with goodwill.
Whereas….. Dealing with Octopus Energy is refreshingly different. On one
occasion I contacted them about a matter of a payment (there was nothing
wrong or incorrect, it was just that I had a preference which had been
overlooked for a few weeks and not updated). I emailed their ‘Hello’ email
address and mentioned that I had requested a small change a month or so
back and it had not yet happened. I had a very speedy reply with apologies,
stating that it had now been adjusted for me and as a goodwill gesture,
they had added £50 to my account!

So some people really do care and mean it. (As they say on their website
‘We do give a FAQ’😉
--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan
Sam Plusnet
2024-07-02 20:05:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike McMillan
Post by J. P. Gilliver
Glad it _looks_ like you're getting somewhere.
[]
Post by BrritSki
Offset by what I was making on the old FIT deemed export this amounted
to £220 for the 3 months including £50 as a goodwill gesture.
[]
I am getting increasingly irritated by that phrase, as (a) there is
usually precious little goodwill involved on either side, and (b) it is
_often_ accompanied by an - implicitly stated or just implied - lack of
acknowledgement of error.
I accept your payment, but not as a "goodwill gesture", but as
compensation for inconvenience called, and an admission on your part
that you were {at fault}/{in error} in the matter concerned. I do not
expect to have to correct the same fault/error again.
I guess most people are just happy to get an unexpected payment so don't
rock the boat, but I've seen "goodwill gesture" or similar phrases too
often to actually believe it isn't an attempt to avoid admission of
error and nothing to do with goodwill.
Whereas….. Dealing with Octopus Energy is refreshingly different. On one
occasion I contacted them about a matter of a payment (there was nothing
wrong or incorrect, it was just that I had a preference which had been
overlooked for a few weeks and not updated). I emailed their ‘Hello’ email
address and mentioned that I had requested a small change a month or so
back and it had not yet happened. I had a very speedy reply with apologies,
stating that it had now been adjusted for me and as a goodwill gesture,
they had added £50 to my account!
So some people really do care and mean it. (As they say on their website
‘We do give a FAQ’😉
All very well, but have you won any money on their Spin the Disk?

I have won a grand total of £2! (polishes knuckles on lapels)
J. P. Gilliver
2024-07-03 00:15:47 UTC
Permalink
[]
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Mike McMillan
Whereas….. Dealing with Octopus Energy is refreshingly different. On one
occasion I contacted them about a matter of a payment (there was nothing
wrong or incorrect, it was just that I had a preference which had been
overlooked for a few weeks and not updated). I emailed their
‘Hello’ email
address and mentioned that I had requested a small change a month or so
back and it had not yet happened. I had a very speedy reply with apologies,
stating that it had now been adjusted for me and as a goodwill gesture,
they had added £50 to my account!
So some people really do care and mean it. (As they say on their website
‘We do give a FAQ’?
I must say, once I've got round the below, they _have_ been quite good
to me too, including I think some genuine goodwill payments.

The main problem is their email system: when viewing emails from me (and
presumably anyone else), it does not let them see any line beginning
with a ">" - I worked this out eventually when they quoted back at me an
email of mine that was in the conventional conversational form we use
here. It included some of my [] lines, which _were_ quoted, so I could
see that the > lines weren't. I sent them a GIF of what they _should_ be
seeing, also telling them that this form of conversation has been in use
in emails for several decades. I received a reply thanking me, saying
they should indeed be able to see all lines a customer sends me, and he
was forwarding it to their IT department; I don't hold out much hope,
but at least I have an acknowledgement of the problem. (For example:
they sent me an email that started by quoting my account number. I
replied, leaving that at the start of the reply as I thought it would be
useful. They replied to my reply, asking for my account number.)
Post by Sam Plusnet
All very well, but have you won any money on their Spin the Disk?
No, not come across that one yet!
Post by Sam Plusnet
I have won a grand total of £2! (polishes knuckles on lapels)
(I always thought that was fingernails being polished!)

PlusNet occasionally have something like "make fred a cup of tea", where
you control the time a teabag is dunked; most unsatisfactory, as there's
no (obvious to me, anyway) indication of what is considered correct.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

People wear anoraks because it's cold outside and it rains, not to annoy the
editors of style magazines. - Ben Elton, Radio Times 18-24 April 1998
Jenny M Benson
2024-07-03 09:17:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver
I must say, once I've got round the below, they _have_ been quite good
to me too, including I think some genuine goodwill payments.
I would much rather companies did their jobs properly in the first place
and didn't have to make goodwill payments, That would earn them far
more of my goodwill.

(Talking of goodwill, some action ny my Housing Assoc pending but still
a long way to go.)
--
Jenny M Benson
Wrexham, UK
J. P. Gilliver
2024-07-03 09:44:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jenny M Benson
Post by J. P. Gilliver
I must say, once I've got round the below, they _have_ been quite
good to me too, including I think some genuine goodwill payments.
I would much rather companies did their jobs properly in the first
place and didn't have to make goodwill payments, That would earn them
far more of my goodwill.
Though, human nature being what it is, if something goes smoothly all
the time, we tend to start to take it for granted. It's possibly better
- in terms of our respect and goodwill for them - for them to
occasionally make a mistake, but remedy it, acknowledging their error.
Post by Jenny M Benson
(Talking of goodwill, some action ny my Housing Assoc pending but still
a long way to go.)
)-:
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Another lively meeting of thr 1922 Committee - the secret gathering of BBC
presenters that gets its name from the fact that no one is sober after
twenty-past seven. - Eddie Mair, RT 16-22 April 2011
Jenny M Benson
2024-07-03 14:10:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver
Though, human nature being what it is, if something goes smoothly all
the time, we tend to start to take it for granted. It's possibly better
- in terms of our respect and goodwill for them - for them to
occasionally make a mistake, but remedy it, acknowledging their error.
I would like to think I don't take it too much for granted and I do make
a positive point of praising service above and beyond.

My sister was wanting to buy a new TV and did some online research but
wanted to see her chosen model "in the flesh" before committing herself.
Despite their appalling, childish, off-putting adverts, we went to
Curry's where a young man was eventually found who could help us - or so
we were told. At every question my sister asked he consulted a tablet
to try and find the answer, not always successfully. Then she asked to
see the Guide because being able to read that easily was an important
feature. He "couldn't change channels because the set wasn't connected
to the internet." At that point we left.

Next day we went to John Lewis A very nice lady answered all the
questions apparently accurately and without a prompt. She pointed out
advantages of set B over set A. She showed the guide and changed
channels several times, etc. etc. She even pointed out where I could go
and sit down when it was obvious I was flagging a bit. We then visited
another department (Ladies' underwear, so I won't go into details) where
the service was again excellent. We thanked both Partners for
impeccable service.
--
Jenny M Benson
Wrexham, UK
J. P. Gilliver
2024-07-03 14:39:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jenny M Benson
Post by J. P. Gilliver
Though, human nature being what it is, if something goes smoothly all
the time, we tend to start to take it for granted. It's possibly
better - in terms of our respect and goodwill for them - for them to
occasionally make a mistake, but remedy it, acknowledging their error.
I would like to think I don't take it too much for granted and I do
make a positive point of praising service above and beyond.
I wasn't thinking so much of things like shop service, as - with
apologies (is that the right word?) for those for whom such things are
_not_ most-of-the-time faultless - things like the electricity and water
supplies. I'm not talking about the billing (or sewage problems), just
the fact that normally when I turn on a tap or lightswitch, water or
light ensues. (I get - despite a rural location - an average of, I
think, about one or two power cuts a year, lasting at most a few hours,
and I think less than one water cut a year.)
Post by Jenny M Benson
My sister was wanting to buy a new TV and did some online research but
wanted to see her chosen model "in the flesh" before committing
herself. Despite their appalling, childish, off-putting adverts, we
went to Curry's where a young man was eventually found who could help
us - or so we were told. At every question my sister asked he
consulted a tablet to try and find the answer, not always successfully.
Then she asked to see the Guide because being able to read that easily
was an important feature. He "couldn't change channels because the set
wasn't connected to the internet." At that point we left.
What infuriates me about such situations is the unwillingness to _admit_
they're pretty clueless. I don't know if it's that they _are_, which is
possible - I imagine it's not a well-paid job, so refer to the
peanuts/monkeys aphorism - or that their _training_ includes an
exhortation never to admit they're out of their depth (whatever shallow
that might actually be). If - as _occasionally_ has happened - the
servitor said something like "you obviously know far more about this
than I do", I'd not hold it against them at all, but admire their
honesty (and, if they were interested, explain what I was doing/asking;
an intelligent servitor welcomed that so he could serve other customers
better [and not as if they were tennis balls]).
Post by Jenny M Benson
Next day we went to John Lewis A very nice lady answered all the
questions apparently accurately and without a prompt. She pointed out
advantages of set B over set A. She showed the guide and changed
channels several times, etc. etc. She even pointed out where I could
go and sit down when it was obvious I was flagging a bit. We then
visited another department (Ladies' underwear, so I won't go into
details) where the service was again excellent. We thanked both
Partners for impeccable service.
One has heard very good things about John Lewis. They tend to be
noticeably more expensive, but I guess YGWYPF (and as I get older and
see that life is finite [and that I can afford], that is more important
than price alone once was [and I know I'm younger than the UMRAverage]).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

After all is said and done, usually more is said.
Mike McMillan
2024-07-03 17:50:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Mike McMillan
Post by J. P. Gilliver
Glad it _looks_ like you're getting somewhere.
[]
Post by BrritSki
Offset by what I was making on the old FIT deemed export this amounted
to £220 for the 3 months including £50 as a goodwill gesture.
[]
I am getting increasingly irritated by that phrase, as (a) there is
usually precious little goodwill involved on either side, and (b) it is
_often_ accompanied by an - implicitly stated or just implied - lack of
acknowledgement of error.
I accept your payment, but not as a "goodwill gesture", but as
compensation for inconvenience called, and an admission on your part
that you were {at fault}/{in error} in the matter concerned. I do not
expect to have to correct the same fault/error again.
I guess most people are just happy to get an unexpected payment so don't
rock the boat, but I've seen "goodwill gesture" or similar phrases too
often to actually believe it isn't an attempt to avoid admission of
error and nothing to do with goodwill.
Whereas….. Dealing with Octopus Energy is refreshingly different. On one
occasion I contacted them about a matter of a payment (there was nothing
wrong or incorrect, it was just that I had a preference which had been
overlooked for a few weeks and not updated). I emailed their ‘Hello’ email
address and mentioned that I had requested a small change a month or so
back and it had not yet happened. I had a very speedy reply with apologies,
stating that it had now been adjusted for me and as a goodwill gesture,
they had added £50 to my account!
So some people really do care and mean it. (As they say on their website
‘We do give a FAQ’😉
All very well, but have you won any money on their Spin the Disk?
I have won a grand total of £2! (polishes knuckles on lapels)
16 points every month seems to be my mark. Min Dew, I did recoup well over
£300 on saving sessions last winter…😉
--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan
BrritSki
2024-07-03 07:13:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike McMillan
So some people really do care and mean it. (As they say on their website
‘We do give a FAQ’😉
Well as I said, my recent experience was mixed, but I don't doubt their
intentions are good.

Anything to say about my query as to when payments are made Mike ?
Mike McMillan
2024-07-03 17:53:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by BrritSki
Post by Mike McMillan
So some people really do care and mean it. (As they say on their website
‘We do give a FAQ’😉
Well as I said, my recent experience was mixed, but I don't doubt their
intentions are good.
Anything to say about my query as to when payments are made Mike ?
Praps you could run the question past me again please BrritSki?
--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan
BrritSki
2024-07-03 18:33:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by BrritSki
Well we finally got onto Octopus Flux Export at the start of June.
What a sorry saga that was with them - very slow to respond even when I
had their attention with people working weird "flexible" hours
(presumably at home) replying late at night and taking 2 days on average
for a response.
It was so bad that they agreed to compensate me by paying me for
everything I had lost as a result of the delay, including the first
month when I would have been waiting if they'd met their targets.
I sent them my spreadsheet where I'd downloaded the daily Tesla app data
(1 row for every 5 minutes over 24 hours) which I summarized and costed
according to the appropriate rate and they paid for both the actual
power generated I'd been unable to export at the advantageous Flux rates
as well as the notional amounts that I would have been able to earn
using my strategy of filling the battery up 100% every night and then
selling 90% of what was in the battery during the peak period 4-7PM.
Offset by what I was making on the old FIT deemed export this amounted
to £220 for the 3 months including £50 as a goodwill gesture.
For June we also made approx £70 net (including an estimate for the
first 3 days before we were switched). It will be interesting to see if
my estimates match what Octopus actually pay.
These amounts are the difference between what I exported and what I
imported, so in addition there are savings I am making because I am
completely avoiding the electricity charges that I had to pay last year
with amounts to over £400pa. I expect the next 3 months will be similar
to June and even in the depths of winter we should make money for
several days if not for the whole month, so things are looking good for
the ROI being quite a bit less than 10 years.
Mike - when will I get my bill for all this ? We didn't get our normal
bill at the end of June when I was expecting to see all the detail....
Or is it quarterly like the FIT payments ?
Mike, this ? at the end....
Mike McMillan
2024-07-04 08:33:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by BrritSki
Post by BrritSki
Well we finally got onto Octopus Flux Export at the start of June.
What a sorry saga that was with them - very slow to respond even when I
had their attention with people working weird "flexible" hours
(presumably at home) replying late at night and taking 2 days on average
for a response.
It was so bad that they agreed to compensate me by paying me for
everything I had lost as a result of the delay, including the first
month when I would have been waiting if they'd met their targets.
I sent them my spreadsheet where I'd downloaded the daily Tesla app data
(1 row for every 5 minutes over 24 hours) which I summarized and costed
according to the appropriate rate and they paid for both the actual
power generated I'd been unable to export at the advantageous Flux rates
as well as the notional amounts that I would have been able to earn
using my strategy of filling the battery up 100% every night and then
selling 90% of what was in the battery during the peak period 4-7PM.
Offset by what I was making on the old FIT deemed export this amounted
to £220 for the 3 months including £50 as a goodwill gesture.
For June we also made approx £70 net (including an estimate for the
first 3 days before we were switched). It will be interesting to see if
my estimates match what Octopus actually pay.
These amounts are the difference between what I exported and what I
imported, so in addition there are savings I am making because I am
completely avoiding the electricity charges that I had to pay last year
with amounts to over £400pa. I expect the next 3 months will be similar
to June and even in the depths of winter we should make money for
several days if not for the whole month, so things are looking good for
the ROI being quite a bit less than 10 years.
Mike - when will I get my bill for all this ? We didn't get our normal
bill at the end of June when I was expecting to see all the detail....
Or is it quarterly like the FIT payments ?
Mike, this ? at the end....
I’m sorry Roger, that posting didn’t reach me!

I’m uncertain how they bill and pay settlement credits into one’s account.
My bills seem to revolve around the 14th of each month and of course, the
readings aren’t processed for about a fortnight anyway. I am awaiting my
next bill which is for energy used up to the middle of June and that I
suppose will arrive in a week or so. I have found that credits and
corrections have shown up on my on-line details within a week or less. Does
any of that help?
--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan
BrritSki
2024-07-04 10:15:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike McMillan
Post by BrritSki
Post by BrritSki
Mike - when will I get my bill for all this ? We didn't get our normal
bill at the end of June when I was expecting to see all the detail....
Or is it quarterly like the FIT payments ?
Mike, this ? at the end....
I’m sorry Roger, that posting didn’t reach me!
Aha !
Post by Mike McMillan
I’m uncertain how they bill and pay settlement credits into one’s account.
My bills seem to revolve around the 14th of each month and of course, the
readings aren’t processed for about a fortnight anyway. I am awaiting my
next bill which is for energy used up to the middle of June and that I
suppose will arrive in a week or so. I have found that credits and
corrections have shown up on my on-line details within a week or less. Does
any of that help?
Yes, thanks. On the old tariff I used to get my bill around the 27th, so
if you are still waiting for yours from mid-month then I have a while to go.

I don't understand though why it takes so long with smart meters ? They
have all the information (although the Octopus Watch app which uses
Octopus data via an API often shows the previous day as "missing"). So
why don't they have an overnight batch system that processes the data
and spits the bill out at most 2 days later.

Similarly for the Savings Sessions in the winter - why does it take so
long to work it out ?
Mike McMillan
2024-07-04 13:16:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by BrritSki
Post by Mike McMillan
Post by BrritSki
Post by BrritSki
Mike - when will I get my bill for all this ? We didn't get our normal
bill at the end of June when I was expecting to see all the detail....
Or is it quarterly like the FIT payments ?
Mike, this ? at the end....
I’m sorry Roger, that posting didn’t reach me!
Aha !
Post by Mike McMillan
I’m uncertain how they bill and pay settlement credits into one’s account.
My bills seem to revolve around the 14th of each month and of course, the
readings aren’t processed for about a fortnight anyway. I am awaiting my
next bill which is for energy used up to the middle of June and that I
suppose will arrive in a week or so. I have found that credits and
corrections have shown up on my on-line details within a week or less. Does
any of that help?
Yes, thanks. On the old tariff I used to get my bill around the 27th, so
if you are still waiting for yours from mid-month then I have a while to go.
I don't understand though why it takes so long with smart meters ? They
have all the information (although the Octopus Watch app which uses
Octopus data via an API often shows the previous day as "missing"). So
why don't they have an overnight batch system that processes the data
and spits the bill out at most 2 days later.
Similarly for the Savings Sessions in the winter - why does it take so
long to work it out ?
Maybe the problem is that Constantine Octopus has to do all the working out
with a pencil and a pocket calculator all on his own!😉 I have known the
saving sessions results to take over two weeks to be published - but worth
waiting for!
--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan
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