Discussion:
Final death of the honours system
(too old to reply)
Rosie Mitchell
2024-06-14 23:32:26 UTC
Permalink
Tom Lehrer said that satire was dead when they gave the Nobel Peace
Prize to Henry Kissinger.

I say the already discredited honours system has now become a total joke
when they give a damehood to a loathesome, self-aggrandising,
self-pitying, talentless waste of space like Tracy Emin.

Rosie
Nick Odell
2024-06-15 05:58:59 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 15 Jun 2024 00:32:26 +0100, Rosie Mitchell
Post by Rosie Mitchell
Tom Lehrer said that satire was dead when they gave the Nobel Peace
Prize to Henry Kissinger.
I say the already discredited honours system has now become a total joke
when they give a damehood to a loathesome, self-aggrandising,
self-pitying, talentless waste of space like Tracy Emin.
Did you hear John Wilson interview her on This Cultural Life? It was
one of the first programmes in the first series but it is still on the
BBC website to listen or download. It completely changed my way of
looking at her.

The last interview I remember gobsmacking me in similar fashion was
when Dr, Anthony Clare interviewed Bob Monkhouse in the 1990s In the
Psychiatrist's Chair. That edition's no longer available from the BBC
for the same reason, I believe, as it doesn't feature in any of
Clare's books but if anybody knows where it might be found then I like
to think that it could still have the same impact today.

Nick
Rosie Mitchell
2024-06-15 10:03:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nick Odell
On Sat, 15 Jun 2024 00:32:26 +0100, Rosie Mitchell
Post by Rosie Mitchell
Tom Lehrer said that satire was dead when they gave the Nobel Peace
Prize to Henry Kissinger.
I say the already discredited honours system has now become a total joke
when they give a damehood to a loathesome, self-aggrandising,
self-pitying, talentless waste of space like Tracy Emin.
Did you hear John Wilson interview her on This Cultural Life? It was
one of the first programmes in the first series but it is still on the
BBC website to listen or download. It completely changed my way of
looking at her.
The last interview I remember gobsmacking me in similar fashion was
when Dr, Anthony Clare interviewed Bob Monkhouse in the 1990s In the
Psychiatrist's Chair. That edition's no longer available from the BBC
for the same reason, I believe, as it doesn't feature in any of
Clare's books but if anybody knows where it might be found then I like
to think that it could still have the same impact today.
I don't know if it was the same interview I heard. The one I heard was
an orgy of self-pity.

Rosie
J. P. Gilliver
2024-06-15 10:16:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nick Odell
On Sat, 15 Jun 2024 00:32:26 +0100, Rosie Mitchell
Post by Rosie Mitchell
Tom Lehrer said that satire was dead when they gave the Nobel Peace
Prize to Henry Kissinger.
He was alleged to have said that, or that that was the reason he stopped
creating and performing. He subsequently denied at least the latter (he
just got tired of doing so and had made sufficient money to continue his
fairly quiet lifestyle indefinitely). [He's still alive BTW.]
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Rosie Mitchell
I say the already discredited honours system has now become a total joke
when they give a damehood to a loathesome, self-aggrandising,
self-pitying, talentless waste of space like Tracy Emin.
That is mostly my opinion of her ...
Post by Nick Odell
Did you hear John Wilson interview her on This Cultural Life? It was
one of the first programmes in the first series but it is still on the
BBC website to listen or download. It completely changed my way of
looking at her.
... though I think I have heard some interview (don't know if I remember
which one - some years ago) that made me see there's slightly more to
her. I don't remember it changing my view entirely though.
Post by Nick Odell
The last interview I remember gobsmacking me in similar fashion was
when Dr, Anthony Clare interviewed Bob Monkhouse in the 1990s In the
Psychiatrist's Chair. That edition's no longer available from the BBC
for the same reason, I believe, as it doesn't feature in any of
Clare's books but if anybody knows where it might be found then I like
to think that it could still have the same impact today.
Nick
What was the nature of the change of your perception - did your view of
BM go greatly up or down?

ITP Chair always struck me as the dark side of Desert Island Discs
(especially as it occupied the same slot); like that Roman (?) god who
had two faces (Janus?), and/or who was represented by both the sun and
the moon. Both programmes elicited information the umbrella had not
previously revealed, often surprising, but DID usually (especially under
Plomley) came over as a pleasant experience (to the extent that lots of
people consider it an honour not far below the honours list, and many
have their list of 8 records), whereas ITPC always seemed "why would
anyone submit themselves to this" (even though DrAC was basically
pleasant).

[I said umbrella not because I couldn't remember, but because I didn't
think either "interviewee" or "victim" seemed quite right. Maybe
"subject".]

Anyone else here have their list of eight records? (I think we might
have "done" this two or three decades ago.) I've never got beyond two or
three, mainly because the rules - I suspect deliberately as it gives
latitude in the making of the programme - aren't clear, such as do they
have to be single tracks or can they be albums (-a), do they have to be
released, and so on. And what's allowed as the luxury, book, and so on.

(I've just looked at Wikipedia - DIDs started in 1942; I suspect then
most ... - yes, another visit to Wiki says LPs only appeared in 1948. So
when originally devised, the 8 _would_ have been single tracks.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Sarcasm: Barbed ire
Ben Blaney
2024-06-15 14:45:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver
Anyone else here have their list of eight records?
It's constantly shifting, and I'd need a defined deadline to come up with a
"final" (for the moment) list. The bones of it are in place, I think. Maybe 4
of 8.

What is important is that it shouldn't be one's favourite eight records. It
should be eight records that reflect your life's journey. That makes it even
harder, of course; to select something that meant a lot *then* but is perhaps
challenging to listen to now.
Post by J. P. Gilliver
(I think we might
have "done" this two or three decades ago.) I've never got beyond two or
three, mainly because the rules - I suspect deliberately as it gives
latitude in the making of the programme - aren't clear, such as do they
have to be single tracks or can they be albums (-a), do they have to be
released, and so on. And what's allowed as the luxury, book, and so on.
Lots of DID castaways have taken unreleased recordings - for example, of their
friends or family making music. I think the measure is if it exists it can be
a disc.

Track v album is clear when it comes to the music of popular beat combos, but
is hazy to me when it comes to classical music. Does the castaway get the
work, or one movement thereof? I think the latter, but I suspect that over 75
years one could find varying interpretations of the "rules".

Luxury item is problematic. Sue Lawley (dreadful fawning sycophant that she
was) let John Major have Lords cricket ground, which seems absurd. Based on
that being permissible though, I would like a proper British pub. Somewhere to
sit comfortably in the shade, play a bit of darts and have a beer.
J. P. Gilliver
2024-06-15 15:15:15 UTC
Permalink
(I'd not noticed some people's reposting of me double-quotes me before.)
Post by Ben Blaney
Post by J. P. Gilliver
Anyone else here have their list of eight records?
It's constantly shifting, and I'd need a defined deadline to come up with a
"final" (for the moment) list. The bones of it are in place, I think. Maybe 4
of 8.
For me, I think I'd get to three or four - but artists, not tracks. That
would take much longer - probably for ever, or at least would become a
chore rather than a pleasure.
Post by Ben Blaney
What is important is that it shouldn't be one's favourite eight records. It
should be eight records that reflect your life's journey. That makes it even
harder, of course; to select something that meant a lot *then* but is perhaps
challenging to listen to now.
Oh dear. I like my comfort zone - don't like to be challenged. Life's
too short, or at least what's left of it compared to what I've used.

Actually, if I've given thought to it - which I haven't much, in recent
years - it's probably been tracks - and artists - I'd want to share
(introduce to people who've not listened to them before), rather than
favourites as such. Though there's probably a huge overlap.
Post by Ben Blaney
Post by J. P. Gilliver
(I think we might
have "done" this two or three decades ago.) I've never got beyond two or
three, mainly because the rules - I suspect deliberately as it gives
latitude in the making of the programme - aren't clear, such as do they
have to be single tracks or can they be albums (-a), do they have to be
released, and so on. And what's allowed as the luxury, book, and so on.
Lots of DID castaways have taken unreleased recordings - for example, of their
friends or family making music. I think the measure is if it exists it can be
a disc.
Yes.
Post by Ben Blaney
Track v album is clear when it comes to the music of popular beat combos, but
is hazy to me when it comes to classical music. Does the castaway get the
work, or one movement thereof? I think the latter, but I suspect that over 75
years one could find varying interpretations of the "rules".
Yes, I've often wondered about that. A few classical pieces I like, I
like the whole, but wouldn't choose any one part thereof as one of my 8;
a lot more (sorry, classical purists), I like one short part, but the
whole symphony or whatever I find boring.
Post by Ben Blaney
Luxury item is problematic. Sue Lawley (dreadful fawning sycophant that she
was) let John Major have Lords cricket ground, which seems absurd. Based on
that being permissible though, I would like a proper British pub. Somewhere to
sit comfortably in the shade, play a bit of darts and have a beer.
I remember a play, somewhat tongue-in-cheek, which actually was set on
the island, and Roy Plomley himself was there - and his luxury was the
Royal Albert Hall, complete with choirs etc. - "there it is, coming up
the beach ..." [I think he played himself, so that gives you a date
range end.]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

The average age at which a woman has her first child has passed 30.
Jason Cowley, RT 2016/6/11-17
Nick Odell
2024-06-15 17:51:02 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 15 Jun 2024 11:16:07 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver"
Post by J. P. Gilliver
Post by Nick Odell
On Sat, 15 Jun 2024 00:32:26 +0100, Rosie Mitchell
Post by Rosie Mitchell
Tom Lehrer said that satire was dead when they gave the Nobel Peace
Prize to Henry Kissinger.
He was alleged to have said that, or that that was the reason he stopped
creating and performing. He subsequently denied at least the latter (he
just got tired of doing so and had made sufficient money to continue his
fairly quiet lifestyle indefinitely). [He's still alive BTW.]
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Rosie Mitchell
I say the already discredited honours system has now become a total joke
when they give a damehood to a loathesome, self-aggrandising,
self-pitying, talentless waste of space like Tracy Emin.
That is mostly my opinion of her ...
Post by Nick Odell
Did you hear John Wilson interview her on This Cultural Life? It was
one of the first programmes in the first series but it is still on the
BBC website to listen or download. It completely changed my way of
looking at her.
... though I think I have heard some interview (don't know if I remember
which one - some years ago) that made me see there's slightly more to
her. I don't remember it changing my view entirely though.
Post by Nick Odell
The last interview I remember gobsmacking me in similar fashion was
when Dr, Anthony Clare interviewed Bob Monkhouse in the 1990s In the
Psychiatrist's Chair. That edition's no longer available from the BBC
for the same reason, I believe, as it doesn't feature in any of
Clare's books but if anybody knows where it might be found then I like
to think that it could still have the same impact today.
Nick
What was the nature of the change of your perception - did your view of
BM go greatly up or down?
I don't think up and down are very useful descriptors (just as I find
political left and right lack sufficient dimensions to do them justice
and I think anybody who has spent any time in a country in thrall to
Peronismo (as I believe you said you had, John) wouldn't find it
adequate either.

I hadn't been very interested in Bob Monkhouse before this and at the
time I hadn't been searching out this interviewee in particular
because ItPC was a programme I regularly used to listen to anyway.
Unlike -say- Tommy Cooper who could make you laugh just by walking out
onto the stage, Monkhouse never seemed to me to be a comic person in
himself: he just told very funny jokes - what I suppose we'd call
dad-jokes now.

I don't imagine that Dr Clare had intended any of this to happen but
as he questioned Monkhouse, slowly at first and then very quickly, his
whole facade crumbled away and Monkhouse discovered for the first time
all those things he had been locking out of his memory since his
childhood. It was very distressing to listen to and obviously even
more distressing for Monkhouse who broke down in tears. It was perhaps
a Pagliacci moment - a metaphorical murder had just been committed
behind the microphone - and afterwards I saw Monkhouse as a real,
fragile human being rather than just a comic.
Post by J. P. Gilliver
ITP Chair always struck me as the dark side of Desert Island Discs
(especially as it occupied the same slot); like that Roman (?) god who
had two faces (Janus?), and/or who was represented by both the sun and
the moon. Both programmes elicited information the umbrella had not
previously revealed, often surprising, but DID usually (especially under
Plomley) came over as a pleasant experience (to the extent that lots of
people consider it an honour not far below the honours list, and many
have their list of 8 records), whereas ITPC always seemed "why would
anyone submit themselves to this" (even though DrAC was basically
pleasant).
That's a very interesting observation.
Post by J. P. Gilliver
[I said umbrella not because I couldn't remember, but because I didn't
think either "interviewee" or "victim" seemed quite right. Maybe
"subject".]
Anyone else here have their list of eight records? (I think we might
have "done" this two or three decades ago.) I've never got beyond two or
three, mainly because the rules - I suspect deliberately as it gives
latitude in the making of the programme - aren't clear, such as do they
have to be single tracks or can they be albums (-a), do they have to be
released, and so on. And what's allowed as the luxury, book, and so on.
(I've just looked at Wikipedia - DIDs started in 1942; I suspect then
most ... - yes, another visit to Wiki says LPs only appeared in 1948. So
when originally devised, the 8 _would_ have been single tracks.)
As Ben has said elsewhere, I think my list would be continually
changing. My first choice though would have to be either the Music
While You Work theme or a song like She Wears Red Feathers" to
represent the first music I became aware of as a toddler.

Nick
J. P. Gilliver
2024-06-15 20:56:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nick Odell
On Sat, 15 Jun 2024 11:16:07 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver"
[]
Post by Nick Odell
Post by J. P. Gilliver
Post by Nick Odell
The last interview I remember gobsmacking me in similar fashion was
when Dr, Anthony Clare interviewed Bob Monkhouse in the 1990s In the
Psychiatrist's Chair. That edition's no longer available from the BBC
[]
Post by Nick Odell
Post by J. P. Gilliver
What was the nature of the change of your perception - did your view of
BM go greatly up or down?
I don't think up and down are very useful descriptors (just as I find
Sorry, I was using lazy shorthand, plus I did assume you meant that sort
of change of opinion.
Post by Nick Odell
political left and right lack sufficient dimensions to do them justice
Ditto. There should be at least two axes - left and right, and
individual freedom and its opposite (I think I'm right of centre, but
very much on the freedom side) - probably more.
Post by Nick Odell
and I think anybody who has spent any time in a country in thrall to
Peronismo (as I believe you said you had, John) wouldn't find it
adequate either.
Not me (unless you count some periods of employment, and I don't think
I'd really say any were that bad), but my _father_ was in Argentina
under the Perons.
Post by Nick Odell
I hadn't been very interested in Bob Monkhouse before this and at the
time I hadn't been searching out this interviewee in particular
because ItPC was a programme I regularly used to listen to anyway.
Unlike -say- Tommy Cooper who could make you laugh just by walking out
onto the stage, Monkhouse never seemed to me to be a comic person in
himself: he just told very funny jokes - what I suppose we'd call
dad-jokes now.
Likewise; he collected good-quality (though, as you say, Dad) jokes.
Post by Nick Odell
I don't imagine that Dr Clare had intended any of this to happen but
as he questioned Monkhouse, slowly at first and then very quickly, his
whole facade crumbled away and Monkhouse discovered for the first time
all those things he had been locking out of his memory since his
childhood. It was very distressing to listen to and obviously even
more distressing for Monkhouse who broke down in tears. It was perhaps
I think I would have found it distressing too. (I think, whoever the
subject was. I don't like people being broken - on the whole, not even
evil people - in front of me.)
Post by Nick Odell
a Pagliacci moment - a metaphorical murder had just been committed
behind the microphone - and afterwards I saw Monkhouse as a real,
fragile human being rather than just a comic.
Post by J. P. Gilliver
ITP Chair always struck me as the dark side of Desert Island Discs
(especially as it occupied the same slot); like that Roman (?) god who
had two faces (Janus?), and/or who was represented by both the sun and
the moon. Both programmes elicited information the umbrella had not
previously revealed, often surprising, but DID usually (especially under
Plomley) came over as a pleasant experience (to the extent that lots of
people consider it an honour not far below the honours list, and many
have their list of 8 records), whereas ITPC always seemed "why would
anyone submit themselves to this" (even though DrAC was basically
pleasant).
That's a very interesting observation.
I'm not sure if I devised it myself, or heard someone else suggest it.
But they definitely seemed two sides of the same coin.
[]
Post by Nick Odell
Post by J. P. Gilliver
Anyone else here have their list of eight records? (I think we might
[]
Post by Nick Odell
As Ben has said elsewhere, I think my list would be continually
changing. My first choice though would have to be either the Music
While You Work theme or a song like She Wears Red Feathers" to
represent the first music I became aware of as a toddler.
Nick
Interesting; I can't remember what, or even what genre, I became aware
of. I share your liking of Coates type music (and if you like Coates,
you'll like Moore - yes, sir Patrick; AFAIK there's only one CD).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"Address the chair!" "There isn't a chair, there's only a rock!" "Well, call
it a chair!" "Why not call it a rock?" (First series, fit the sixth.)
Nick Odell
2024-06-16 20:17:34 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 15 Jun 2024 21:56:23 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver"
Post by J. P. Gilliver
Post by Nick Odell
On Sat, 15 Jun 2024 11:16:07 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver"
[]
Post by Nick Odell
Post by J. P. Gilliver
Post by Nick Odell
The last interview I remember gobsmacking me in similar fashion was
when Dr, Anthony Clare interviewed Bob Monkhouse in the 1990s In the
Psychiatrist's Chair. That edition's no longer available from the BBC
[]
Post by Nick Odell
Post by J. P. Gilliver
What was the nature of the change of your perception - did your view of
BM go greatly up or down?
I don't think up and down are very useful descriptors (just as I find
Sorry, I was using lazy shorthand, plus I did assume you meant that sort
of change of opinion.
Post by Nick Odell
political left and right lack sufficient dimensions to do them justice
Ditto. There should be at least two axes - left and right, and
individual freedom and its opposite (I think I'm right of centre, but
very much on the freedom side) - probably more.
Post by Nick Odell
and I think anybody who has spent any time in a country in thrall to
Peronismo (as I believe you said you had, John) wouldn't find it
adequate either.
Not me (unless you count some periods of employment, and I don't think
I'd really say any were that bad), but my _father_ was in Argentina
under the Perons.
Post by Nick Odell
I hadn't been very interested in Bob Monkhouse before this and at the
time I hadn't been searching out this interviewee in particular
because ItPC was a programme I regularly used to listen to anyway.
Unlike -say- Tommy Cooper who could make you laugh just by walking out
onto the stage, Monkhouse never seemed to me to be a comic person in
himself: he just told very funny jokes - what I suppose we'd call
dad-jokes now.
Likewise; he collected good-quality (though, as you say, Dad) jokes.
Post by Nick Odell
I don't imagine that Dr Clare had intended any of this to happen but
as he questioned Monkhouse, slowly at first and then very quickly, his
whole facade crumbled away and Monkhouse discovered for the first time
all those things he had been locking out of his memory since his
childhood. It was very distressing to listen to and obviously even
more distressing for Monkhouse who broke down in tears. It was perhaps
I think I would have found it distressing too. (I think, whoever the
subject was. I don't like people being broken - on the whole, not even
evil people - in front of me.)
Post by Nick Odell
a Pagliacci moment - a metaphorical murder had just been committed
behind the microphone - and afterwards I saw Monkhouse as a real,
fragile human being rather than just a comic.
Post by J. P. Gilliver
ITP Chair always struck me as the dark side of Desert Island Discs
(especially as it occupied the same slot); like that Roman (?) god who
had two faces (Janus?), and/or who was represented by both the sun and
the moon. Both programmes elicited information the umbrella had not
previously revealed, often surprising, but DID usually (especially under
Plomley) came over as a pleasant experience (to the extent that lots of
people consider it an honour not far below the honours list, and many
have their list of 8 records), whereas ITPC always seemed "why would
anyone submit themselves to this" (even though DrAC was basically
pleasant).
That's a very interesting observation.
I'm not sure if I devised it myself, or heard someone else suggest it.
But they definitely seemed two sides of the same coin.
[]
Post by Nick Odell
Post by J. P. Gilliver
Anyone else here have their list of eight records? (I think we might
[]
Post by Nick Odell
As Ben has said elsewhere, I think my list would be continually
changing. My first choice though would have to be either the Music
While You Work theme or a song like She Wears Red Feathers" to
represent the first music I became aware of as a toddler.
Nick
Interesting; I can't remember what, or even what genre, I became aware
of. I share your liking of Coates type music (and if you like Coates,
you'll like Moore - yes, sir Patrick; AFAIK there's only one CD).
It wasn't my choice: it was the soundtrack to my life back then. I
recall being dumped into the playpen while my mother got on with the
things she needed to do without me crawling under her feet.

Nick
john ashby
2024-06-16 17:24:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver
Anyone else here have their list of eight records? (I think we might
have "done" this two or three decades ago.) I've never got beyond two or
three, mainly because the rules - I suspect deliberately as it gives
latitude in the making of the programme - aren't clear, such as do they
have to be single tracks or can they be albums (-a), do they have to be
released, and so on. And what's allowed as the luxury, book, and so on.
I've just listened to the DID podcast of Clive Myrie's choices and
Lauren Laverne introduced it by clearly stating that it was eight
"tracks" which blows my plan to take the Ring Cycle out of the water.

john
J. P. Gilliver
2024-06-16 17:37:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by john ashby
Post by J. P. Gilliver
Anyone else here have their list of eight records? (I think we might
have "done" this two or three decades ago.) I've never got beyond two
or three, mainly because the rules - I suspect deliberately as it
gives latitude in the making of the programme - aren't clear, such as
do they have to be single tracks or can they be albums (-a), do they
have to be released, and so on. And what's allowed as the luxury,
book, and so on.
I've just listened to the DID podcast of Clive Myrie's choices and
Lauren Laverne introduced it by clearly stating that it was eight
"tracks" which blows my plan to take the Ring Cycle out of the water.
john
Don't worry - the rules do change; I'm sure there was once a rule that
the book had to be a single volume, but someone (I think it was Lucinda
Lambton) was allowed to take the Dictionary of National Biography, which
most certainly isn't (I think it's more like an encyclopaedia or the OED
in number of volumes).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

age. fac ut gaudeam.
Rosie Mitchell
2024-06-16 23:29:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver
Post by john ashby
Post by J. P. Gilliver
Anyone else here have their list of eight records? (I think we
might have "done" this two or three decades ago.) I've never got
beyond two or three, mainly because the rules - I suspect
deliberately as it gives latitude in the making of the programme -
aren't clear, such as do they have to be single tracks or can they
be albums (-a), do they have to be released, and so on. And what's
allowed as the luxury, book, and so on.
I've just listened to the DID podcast of Clive Myrie's choices and
Lauren Laverne introduced it by clearly stating that it was eight
"tracks" which blows my plan to take the Ring Cycle out of the water.
john
Don't worry - the rules do change; I'm sure there was once a rule that
the book had to be a single volume, but someone (I think it was
Lucinda Lambton) was allowed to take the Dictionary of National
Biography, which most certainly isn't (I think it's more like an
encyclopaedia or the OED in number of volumes).
I'm pretty sure somebody has asked for, and got, a complete set of
Wisden.

Rosie
Ben Blaney
2024-06-17 01:06:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver
Don't worry - the rules do change; I'm sure there was once a rule that
the book had to be a single volume, but someone (I think it was Lucinda
Lambton) was allowed to take the Dictionary of National Biography, which
most certainly isn't (I think it's more like an encyclopaedia or the OED
in number of volumes).
My brother used to work on the DNB!
Sam Plusnet
2024-06-16 19:53:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by john ashby
Post by J. P. Gilliver
Anyone else here have their list of eight records? (I think we might
have "done" this two or three decades ago.) I've never got beyond two
or three, mainly because the rules - I suspect deliberately as it
gives latitude in the making of the programme - aren't clear, such as
do they have to be single tracks or can they be albums (-a), do they
have to be released, and so on. And what's allowed as the luxury,
book, and so on.
I've just listened to the DID podcast of Clive Myrie's choices and
Lauren Laverne introduced it by clearly stating that it was eight
"tracks" which blows my plan to take the Ring Cycle out of the water.
In digital format, it would be trivial to meld the whole thing into a
single recording. "Tracks" are so 20th Century.
--
Sam Plusnet
Rosie Mitchell
2024-06-16 23:32:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by john ashby
Post by J. P. Gilliver
Anyone else here have their list of eight records? (I think we
might have "done" this two or three decades ago.) I've never got
beyond two or three, mainly because the rules - I suspect
deliberately as it gives latitude in the making of the programme -
aren't clear, such as do they have to be single tracks or can they
be albums (-a), do they have to be released, and so on. And what's
allowed as the luxury, book, and so on.
I've just listened to the DID podcast of Clive Myrie's choices and
Lauren Laverne introduced it by clearly stating that it was eight
"tracks" which blows my plan to take the Ring Cycle out of the water.
In digital format, it would be trivial to meld the whole thing into a
single recording. "Tracks" are so 20th Century.
I find I currently lack the wherewithal to play my CD collection. I'm
sure there must be something out there suitable for Alexa to deal with.

Rosie
J. P. Gilliver
2024-06-17 05:43:13 UTC
Permalink
In message <***@milou.golgonooza.co.uk> at Mon, 17 Jun 2024
00:32:53, Rosie Mitchell <***@golgonooza.co.uk> writes
[]
Post by Rosie Mitchell
I find I currently lack the wherewithal to play my CD collection. I'm
sure there must be something out there suitable for Alexa to deal with.
Rosie
If none of your PCs have an optical drive, I've just checked and you can
get an external (USB) one, new from UK, for about a tenner. You'd only
need to read them once, to transfer them to your hard drive (or
whatever) - even in raw WAV form a CD is only about 700 MB max, if
converted to mp3 or other such I'm guessing about 80 MB.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"I'm a paranoid agnostic. I doubt the existence of God, but I'm sure there is
some force, somewhere, working against me." - Marc Maron
John Armstrong
2024-06-17 08:17:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver
[]
Post by Rosie Mitchell
I find I currently lack the wherewithal to play my CD collection. I'm
sure there must be something out there suitable for Alexa to deal with.
Rosie
If none of your PCs have an optical drive, I've just checked and you can
get an external (USB) one, new from UK, for about a tenner. You'd only
need to read them once, to transfer them to your hard drive (or
whatever) - even in raw WAV form a CD is only about 700 MB max, if
converted to mp3 or other such I'm guessing about 80 MB.
Yes, that's about right, for a fairly low bit rate, and if you then play
it back with a PC's audio system, you're very unlikely to be able to
discern much, if any, loss of sound quality.

And then of course you have to factor in the quality of your ears - an
important part of the hifi chain. Hearing, especially of high
frequencies, deteriorates with age, as I know only too well.
J. P. Gilliver
2024-06-17 10:28:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Armstrong
Post by J. P. Gilliver
[]
Post by Rosie Mitchell
I find I currently lack the wherewithal to play my CD collection. I'm
[]
Post by John Armstrong
Post by J. P. Gilliver
If none of your PCs have an optical drive, I've just checked and you
can get an external (USB) one, new from UK, for about a tenner. You'd
only need to read them once, to transfer them to your hard drive (or
whatever) - even in raw WAV form a CD is only about 700 MB max, if
converted to mp3 or other such I'm guessing about 80 MB.
Yes, that's about right, for a fairly low bit rate, and if you then
I actually find (and found, when I had more hearing range) that 128K MP3
is good enough for more or less everything - certainly 44100 sampling,
stereo, up to 16 kHz (which is where most things on YouTube cut off
anyway). And that's looking at a spectrogram, not ...
Post by John Armstrong
play it back with a PC's audio system, you're very unlikely to be able
to discern much, if any, loss of sound quality.
... doing that.
Post by John Armstrong
And then of course you have to factor in the quality of your ears - an
important part of the hifi chain. Hearing, especially of high
frequencies, deteriorates with age, as I know only too well.
Yes, I was startled to find mine dies off about 8 kHz now! And I never
went to loud discos or anything. Strange, I'm not _aware_ of missing
anything - I guess it must be gradual so I'm used to it. Anything I'm
converting, though, I look at the spectrogram as well as listening, and
I don't cut the saved data rate if it would affect the material, even if
_I_ can't hear it. (If I was to save only what I can hear, I'd save
everything at 22050 only, for a start.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Do ministers do more than lay people?
Jim Easterbrook
2024-06-17 11:10:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver
Post by John Armstrong
And then of course you have to factor in the quality of your ears - an
important part of the hifi chain. Hearing, especially of high
frequencies, deteriorates with age, as I know only too well.
Yes, I was startled to find mine dies off about 8 kHz now! And I never
went to loud discos or anything. Strange, I'm not _aware_ of missing
anything - I guess it must be gradual so I'm used to it.
When I finally went for a hearing test the result showed I was about 70 dB
below "normal" at 8 kHz. I'd been mishearing speech for quite a long time,
but putting up with it as I'm not a social animal. But I'd got to the
point where I couldn't hear the top three notes on a piano. Getting
hearing aids has made a big improvement. I'm hearing birdsong again, and
music is much more interesting now I can hear cymbals and the like.
--
Jim <http://www.jim-easterbrook.me.uk/>
1959/1985? M B+ G+ A L- I- S- P-- CH0(p) Ar++ T+ H0 Q--- Sh0
john ashby
2024-06-17 12:42:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver
Do ministers do more than lay people?
Yes, sometimes they marry them as well.

john
John Armstrong
2024-06-18 08:39:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver
Yes, I was startled to find mine dies off about 8 kHz now! And I never
went to loud discos or anything. Strange, I'm not _aware_ of missing
anything - I guess it must be gradual so I'm used to it. Anything I'm
converting, though, I look at the spectrogram as well as listening, and
I don't cut the saved data rate if it would affect the material, even if
_I_ can't hear it. (If I was to save only what I can hear, I'd save
everything at 22050 only, for a start.)
Yes, it is gradual - over years and decades. It was mostly caused in my
case by some very noisy working environments in the 70s and 80s before
ear protection became mandatory. I couldn't believe the improvement when
I first had hearing aids fitted 6 years ago.

Iain Archer
2024-06-17 10:46:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Armstrong
Yes, that's about right, for a fairly low bit rate, and if you then play
it back with a PC's audio system, you're very unlikely to be able to
discern much, if any, loss of sound quality.
And then of course you have to factor in the quality of your ears - an
important part of the hifi chain. Hearing, especially of high
frequencies, deteriorates with age, as I know only too well.
For thems as use a playback system with limited Equalisation
options, I find the Pop setting the kindest to higher frequencies.

Iain
Nick Odell
2024-06-17 19:03:30 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 17 Jun 2024 09:17:22 +0100, John Armstrong
Post by John Armstrong
Post by J. P. Gilliver
[]
Post by Rosie Mitchell
I find I currently lack the wherewithal to play my CD collection. I'm
sure there must be something out there suitable for Alexa to deal with.
Rosie
If none of your PCs have an optical drive, I've just checked and you can
get an external (USB) one, new from UK, for about a tenner. You'd only
need to read them once, to transfer them to your hard drive (or
whatever) - even in raw WAV form a CD is only about 700 MB max, if
converted to mp3 or other such I'm guessing about 80 MB.
Yes, that's about right, for a fairly low bit rate, and if you then play
it back with a PC's audio system, you're very unlikely to be able to
discern much, if any, loss of sound quality.
And then of course you have to factor in the quality of your ears - an
important part of the hifi chain. Hearing, especially of high
frequencies, deteriorates with age, as I know only too well.
Pardon?

N.
Chris J Dixon
2024-06-17 09:14:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rosie Mitchell
I find I currently lack the wherewithal to play my CD collection. I'm
sure there must be something out there suitable for Alexa to deal with.
I use Alexa her to play my music, which is ripped to MP3, and on
my NAS, using Plex. She doesn't always find what I am looking
for, and seems unwilling to find some of my albums when I specify
the artist, though when I give the album title, then pronounces
the artist exactly as I had been doing.

What is really irritating is that there is no other interface,
AFAIK, there is no way to use the screen to make choices.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham
'48/33 M B+ G++ A L(-) I S-- CH0(--)(p) Ar- T+ H0 ?Q
***@cdixon.me.uk @ChrisJDixon1
Plant amazing Acers.
Rosie Mitchell
2024-06-17 10:15:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris J Dixon
Post by Rosie Mitchell
I find I currently lack the wherewithal to play my CD collection. I'm
sure there must be something out there suitable for Alexa to deal with.
I use Alexa her to play my music, which is ripped to MP3, and on
my NAS, using Plex. She doesn't always find what I am looking
for, and seems unwilling to find some of my albums when I specify
the artist, though when I give the album title, then pronounces
the artist exactly as I had been doing.
Have you ever tried asking Alexa to play an opera or a symphony? Let
alone asking her to play a specific recording.

If I say "Alexa, radio off" she turns the radio off with a polite, if
rather curt, "Goodbye". I wish I had this facility in the days of racing
for the off-switch whenever CAS, JAM or even at times TA. She will also
switch off when I say "Alexa, shut up" or even "Alexa, fuck off",
although without the goodbye. I want her to respond similarly to "Alexa,
haud ya wheesht" but she just says she doesn't have an answer to that. I
want to train her to respond to that but as far as I know it's not
possible.

Rosie
Kate B
2024-06-17 10:44:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rosie Mitchell
Post by Chris J Dixon
Post by Rosie Mitchell
I find I currently lack the wherewithal to play my CD collection. I'm
sure there must be something out there suitable for Alexa to deal with.
I use Alexa her to play my music, which is ripped to MP3, and on
my NAS, using Plex. She doesn't always find what I am looking
for, and seems unwilling to find some of my albums when I specify
the artist, though when I give the album title, then pronounces
the artist exactly as I had been doing.
Have you ever tried asking Alexa to play an opera or a symphony? Let
alone asking her to play a specific recording.
If I say "Alexa, radio off" she turns the radio off with a polite, if
rather curt, "Goodbye". I wish I had this facility in the days of racing
for the off-switch whenever CAS, JAM or even at times TA. She will also
switch off when I say "Alexa, shut up" or even "Alexa, fuck off",
although without the goodbye. I want her to respond similarly to "Alexa,
haud ya wheesht" but she just says she doesn't have an answer to that. I
want to train her to respond to that but as far as I know it's not
possible.
Ah well, women won't wheesht, as we know...
--
Kate B
v***@gmail.com
2024-06-17 10:54:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kate B
Post by Rosie Mitchell
Post by Chris J Dixon
Post by Rosie Mitchell
I find I currently lack the wherewithal to play my CD collection. I'm
sure there must be something out there suitable for Alexa to deal with.
I use Alexa her to play my music, which is ripped to MP3, and on
my NAS, using Plex. She doesn't always find what I am looking
for, and seems unwilling to find some of my albums when I specify
the artist, though when I give the album title, then pronounces
the artist exactly as I had been doing.
Have you ever tried asking Alexa to play an opera or a symphony? Let
alone asking her to play a specific recording.
If I say "Alexa, radio off" she turns the radio off with a polite, if
rather curt, "Goodbye". I wish I had this facility in the days of racing
for the off-switch whenever CAS, JAM or even at times TA. She will also
switch off when I say "Alexa, shut up" or even "Alexa, fuck off",
although without the goodbye. I want her to respond similarly to "Alexa,
haud ya wheesht" but she just says she doesn't have an answer to that. I
want to train her to respond to that but as far as I know it's not
possible.
Ah well, women won't wheesht, as we know...
I set the voice to male every now and then. You get a choice of
voices. He's very pushy too. He asked this morning if I'd like a
weather forcast daily at 7a.m . I often ask before I go out to swim
in the morning but not at the same times. And quite often if i say to
play A Life Scientific podcast (to sleep with), enunciating very
carefully, he insists on playing a Reith Lecture and then I ask again
and he plays the LS.
Rosie Mitchell
2024-06-17 11:28:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kate B
Post by Rosie Mitchell
Post by Chris J Dixon
Post by Rosie Mitchell
I find I currently lack the wherewithal to play my CD collection. I'm
sure there must be something out there suitable for Alexa to deal with.
I use Alexa her to play my music, which is ripped to MP3, and on
my NAS, using Plex. She doesn't always find what I am looking
for, and seems unwilling to find some of my albums when I specify
the artist, though when I give the album title, then pronounces
the artist exactly as I had been doing.
Have you ever tried asking Alexa to play an opera or a symphony? Let
alone asking her to play a specific recording.
If I say "Alexa, radio off" she turns the radio off with a polite, if
rather curt, "Goodbye". I wish I had this facility in the days of racing
for the off-switch whenever CAS, JAM or even at times TA. She will also
switch off when I say "Alexa, shut up" or even "Alexa, fuck off",
although without the goodbye. I want her to respond similarly to "Alexa,
haud ya wheesht" but she just says she doesn't have an answer to that. I
want to train her to respond to that but as far as I know it's not
possible.
Ah well, women won't wheesht, as we know...
Brava!

Rosie
john ashby
2024-06-17 12:39:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kate B
Post by Rosie Mitchell
Post by Chris J Dixon
Post by Rosie Mitchell
I find I currently lack the wherewithal to play my CD collection. I'm
sure there must be something out there suitable for Alexa to deal with.
I use Alexa her to play my music, which is ripped to MP3, and on
my NAS, using Plex. She doesn't always find what I am looking
for, and seems unwilling to find some of my albums when I specify
the artist, though when I give the album title, then pronounces
the artist exactly as I had been doing.
Have you ever tried asking Alexa to play an opera or a symphony? Let
alone asking her to play a specific recording.
If I say "Alexa, radio off" she turns the radio off with a polite, if
rather curt, "Goodbye". I wish I had this facility in the days of racing
for the off-switch whenever CAS, JAM or even at times TA. She will also
switch off when I say "Alexa, shut up" or even "Alexa, fuck off",
although without the goodbye. I want her to respond similarly to "Alexa,
haud ya wheesht" but she just says she doesn't have an answer to that. I
want to train her to respond to that but as far as I know it's not
possible.
Ah well, women won't wheesht, as we know...
Coincientally a post came up on FakeBook this morning about an acadmic
study which compared the quantity od speaking (both in time and number
of words) between men and women and found men spoke far more but judged
that they spoke less.

john
Joe Kerr
2024-06-17 20:36:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rosie Mitchell
If I say "Alexa, radio off" she turns the radio off with a polite, if
rather curt, "Goodbye". I wish I had this facility in the days of racing
for the off-switch whenever CAS, JAM or even at times TA. She will also
switch off when I say "Alexa, shut up" or even "Alexa, fuck off",
although without the goodbye. I want her to respond similarly to "Alexa,
haud ya wheesht" but she just says she doesn't have an answer to that. I
want to train her to respond to that but as far as I know it's not
possible.
Rosie
Have tried creating a routine? I would have thought that would do it. In
the app create a routine with your text as the trigger (it might some
phonetic jiggery pokery) and an action of Device Settings -> Stop Audio.
--
Ric
Mike Headon
2024-06-16 20:51:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver
Post by Nick Odell
On Sat, 15 Jun 2024 00:32:26 +0100, Rosie Mitchell
Post by Rosie Mitchell
Tom Lehrer said that satire was dead when they gave the Nobel Peace
Prize to Henry Kissinger.
He was alleged to have said that, or that that was the reason he stopped
creating and performing. He subsequently denied at least the latter (he
just got tired of doing so and had made sufficient money to continue his
fairly quiet lifestyle indefinitely). [He's still alive BTW.]
A colleague (long ago) who knew Lehrer told me that his retirement owed
more to Jack Daniels than to Henry Kissinger.
Post by J. P. Gilliver
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Rosie Mitchell
I say the already discredited honours system has now become a total joke
when they give a damehood to a loathesome, self-aggrandising,
self-pitying, talentless waste of space like Tracy Emin.
That is mostly my opinion of her ...
Post by Nick Odell
Did you hear John Wilson interview her on This Cultural Life? It was
one of the first programmes in the first series but it is still on the
BBC website to listen or download. It completely changed my way of
looking at her.
... though I think I have heard some interview (don't know if I remember
which one - some years ago) that made me see there's slightly more to
her. I don't remember it changing my view entirely though.
Post by Nick Odell
The last interview I remember gobsmacking me in similar fashion was
when Dr, Anthony Clare interviewed Bob Monkhouse in the 1990s In the
Psychiatrist's Chair. That edition's no longer available from the BBC
for the same reason, I believe, as it doesn't feature in any of
Clare's books but if anybody knows where it might be found then I like
to think that it could still have the same impact today.
Nick
What was the nature of the change of your perception - did your view of
BM go greatly up or down?
ITP Chair always struck me as the dark side of Desert Island Discs
(especially as it occupied the same slot); like that Roman (?) god who
had two faces (Janus?), and/or who was represented by both the sun and
the moon. Both programmes elicited information the umbrella had not
previously revealed, often surprising, but DID usually (especially under
Plomley) came over as a pleasant experience (to the extent that lots of
people consider it an honour not far below the honours list, and many
have their list of 8 records), whereas ITPC always seemed "why would
anyone submit themselves to this" (even though DrAC was basically
pleasant).
[I said umbrella not because I couldn't remember, but because I didn't
think either "interviewee" or "victim" seemed quite right. Maybe
"subject".]
Anyone else here have their list of eight records? (I think we might
have "done" this two or three decades ago.) I've never got beyond two or
three, mainly because the rules - I suspect deliberately as it gives
latitude in the making of the programme - aren't clear, such as do they
have to be single tracks or can they be albums (-a), do they have to be
released, and so on. And what's allowed as the luxury, book, and so on.
(I've just looked at Wikipedia - DIDs started in 1942; I suspect then
most ... - yes, another visit to Wiki says LPs only appeared in 1948. So
when originally devised, the 8 _would_ have been single tracks.)
--
Mike Headon
R69S R850R
IIIc IIIg FT FTn FT2 EOS450D
e-mail: mike dot headon at enn tee ell world dot com
Kosmo
2024-06-15 14:22:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rosie Mitchell
Tom Lehrer said that satire was dead when they gave the Nobel Peace
Prize to Henry Kissinger.
I say the already discredited honours system has now become a total joke
when they give a damehood to a loathesome, self-aggrandising,
self-pitying, talentless waste of space like Tracy Emin.
Rosie
Oh come on. Tell us what you really think.
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
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